If Dungy Believes in him, so do I

[Mahdi]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/22/dungy-on-vick-i-believe-in-him/


Dungy is well known to the NFL community as a decent and upstanding also God-fearing person, if he stands by Vick, so do I.

IMO it takes a good person to forgive.

Get it done Ralph!

[OpIv37]

None of that has anything to do with Vick's ability to play football at a high level. The only thing that even touches on Vick's football ability (or lack thereof) is when Dungy said he had "potential."

Well, so what? I can name 30 guys that had potential and never amounted to anything on the field off the top of my head.

[Forward_Lateral]

Vick sucks as a QB, so, who cares?

[Mahdi]

None of that has anything to do with Vick's ability to play football at a high level. The only thing that even touches on Vick's football ability (or lack thereof) is when Dungy said he had "potential."

Well, so what? I can name 30 guys that had potential and never amounted to anything on the field off the top of my head.
Even though this thread has nothing to do with football ability....

The game of football is tackle and avoid being tackled... when it comes to the latter Vick is second only to Barry. So saying he has a lack of football ability is nonsensical.

[Prov401]

Michael Vick sucks. End.

[Mahdi]

Vick sucks as a QB, so, who cares?
Do you really think Pat White was drafted to be Peyton Manning?

[EDS]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/22/dungy-on-vick-i-believe-in-him/


Dungy is well known to the NFL community as a decent and upstanding also God-fearing person, if he stands by Vick, so do I.

IMO it takes a good person to forgive.

Get it done Ralph!

You gotta be kidding me. Vick is not the answer. Trent may not be either, but the last thing this team needs is another guy with off-the-field issues.

[TigerJ]

I believe in the same God Tony Dungy believes in, and I have no problem giving Michael Vick a second chance. However, like Op, I believe he's a poor fit for what the Bills are trying to do offensively. His physical skills have likely eroded after being away from the game, and mentally I don't have the confidence that he's going to make good decisions with the ball. Whe just went out and spent significant money on Terrel Owens to give Trent Edwards a second big play threat and take the pressure off Lee Evans. You replace Trent with Michael Vick and suddeny it doesn't matter who your wide receivers are because your offense with Michael Vick as the trigger man is all about Michael Vick and the threat he is to run the ball.

[Mahdi]

I believe in the same God Tony Dungy believes in, and I have no problem giving Michael Vick a second chance. However, like Op, I believe he's a poor fit for what the Bills are trying to do offensively. His physical skills have likely eroded after being away from the game, and mentally I don't have the confidence that he's going to make good decisions with the ball. Whe just went out and spent significant money on Terrel Owens to give Trent Edwards a second big play threat and take the pressure off Lee Evans. You replace Trent with Michael Vick and suddeny it doesn't matter who your wide receivers are because your offense with Michael Vick as the trigger man is all about Michael Vick and the threat he is to run the ball.
Why exactly would we replace Trent with Michael Vick...

No matter who signs Vick he will not be a starting QB,,, he will be a package QB... used as a Wildcat or in some sort of option package.

No one is suggesting he take over for Trent.

[OpIv37]

Even though this thread has nothing to do with football ability....

The game of football is tackle and avoid being tackled... when it comes to the latter Vick is second only to Barry. So saying he has a lack of football ability is nonsensical.

Vick plays QB. There is MUCH more to being a QB than not getting tackled.

[OpIv37]

You gotta be kidding me. Vick is not the answer. Trent may not be either, but the last thing this team needs is another guy with off-the-field issues.

or another QB with fast feet, a cannon arm and no brains. We just got rid of one of those.

[Dr. Lecter]

Vick's sentence is not even going to over until July 20.

He then has to get re-instated. And then released by Atlanta (which will be quick).

Then he will listen to offers. By the time he is willing, ready and able to sign, it likely won't be until late August at the best and more likely not until the season is underway.

Pass.

[yordad]

Vick's sentence is not even going to over until July 20.

He then has to get re-instated. And then released by Atlanta (which will be quick).

Then he will listen to offers. By the time he is willing, ready and able to sign, it likely won't be until late August at the best and more likely not until the season is underway.

Pass.If you keep "passing" he will sign with the Dolphins and run all over us.

[OpIv37]

If you keep "passing" he will sign with the Dolphins and run all over us.

The Dolphins drafted Pat White. Signing Vick would be redundant.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Michael Vick sucked as a quarterback in his last two seasons when opposing teams noticed the obvious: if you don't let him run he is a poor thrower. He might have ran a lot of yards but just take a look at his passar rating and record in 05 and 06. Michael Vick is a mediocre quarterback, stop saying he is the "most excinting player in the NFL" because he was not.

Anyway, considering we have THE FITZ! as our replacement I wouldn't mind the Bills signing Vick but then again I wouldn't mind us signing Losman for that matter.

[TheMan08]

If he sucks... WHY DOES HE HAVE A WINNING RECORD AS A QB IN THIS LEAGUE!!!

[TheMan08]

And don't tell me cause of the personnel around him

[justasportsfan]

Dungy simply said he should get a second chance. No where in there does he say Vick is a great qb.

NO thanks.

[Mitchell55]

I believe in him on another team

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

If he sucks... WHY DOES HE HAVE A WINNING RECORD AS A QB IN THIS LEAGUE!!!
Trent Dilfer used to have a winning record with the Bucs, Brad Johnson used to have a winning record with the same Bucs, Alex Smith had (or has) a winning record with the 49ears, Drew Bledsoe had a winning record with the Cowboys, Kerry Collins has a winning record with the Titans, Anthony Wright used to have a winning record with the Ravens, so what?

[BillsWin]

We should have a Michael Vick forum.

[Mahdi]

The Dolphins drafted Pat White. Signing Vick would be redundant.
Wouldn't be redundant for us then would it?

[Mitchell55]

2 teams, Minnessota and possibly Oakland. Thats it

[sdbillsfan2]

We should have a Michael Vick forum.


Agreed ! And how about a Peters forum and a Jp forum and every other loser past or present forum . I realize Bills news is slow these days , but really folks , we can find better things to talk about can't we ?
Let it go. Vick won't be coming here. Peters is gone and even I admit JP couldn't cut it !

[OpIv37]

Wouldn't be redundant for us then would it?

no, just useless.

We need a QB who can get the ball to our playmakers. Vick isn't that guy.

[Mitchell55]

no, just useless.

We need a QB who can get the ball to our playmakers. Vick isn't that guy.



Key words, get the ball to playmakers.


We have playmakers, we dont need another one that will take away from the other ones on our O.

[Mahdi]

no, just useless.

We need a QB who can get the ball to our playmakers. Vick isn't that guy.
O i c... so although you contend that our coaching staff and FO is much worse than those of the Fins and Pats, their front offices according to your logic dont know what they are doing drafting Pat White and Julian Edelman...

[OpIv37]

O i c... so although you contend that our coaching staff and FO is much worse than those of the Fins and Pats, their front offices according to your logic dont know what they are doing drafting Pat White and Julian Edelman...

what the hell are you talking about?

Pennington is old and limited and Henne hasn't shown much- the Fins are looking for a QB.

The Pats need a back-up because they lost Cassell in the off-season.

The Bills' FO, for better or worse, is committed to Edwards and signed Fitzpatrick to be the back up.

Your logic, if there is any, appears to be "The Pats and Fins drafted QB's with some similarities to Vick, therefore the Bills should sign Vick." It doesn't make any sense. The Bills are in different places with their QB situations and run different styles of offense, plus, unlike the rookies, Vick has already had his chance on the field and shown some serious limitations. Seriously, you're really grasping at straws on this one. I probably could have just stopped with "what the hell are you talking about?"

[Mitchell55]

what the hell are you talking about?

Pennington is old and limited and Henne hasn't shown much- the Fins are looking for a QB.

The Pats need a back-up because they lost Cassell in the off-season.

The Bills' FO, for better or worse, is committed to Edwards and signed Fitzpatrick to be the back up.

Your logic, if there is any, appears to be "The Pats and Fins drafted QB's with some similarities to Vick, therefore the Bills should sign Vick." It doesn't make any sense. The Bills are in different places with their QB situations and run different styles of offense, plus, unlike the rookies, Vick has already had his chance on the field and shown some serious limitations. Seriously, you're really grasping at straws on this one. I probably could have just stopped with "what the hell are you talking about?"




I agree. Vick would also not be a fit in buffalo by any stretch of the mind. Hes a speed QB who will defintley screw up our OL. 1st off if it isnt hard enough having Wood switch to G, Butler to RT, Walker to LT, and Hangartner starting, then you now have a QB who will run around forcing you to move basically with him and make sure the DL is always at a angle that he wont tackle Vick even though thats almost impossible.

[Mahdi]

what the hell are you talking about?

Pennington is old and limited and Henne hasn't shown much- the Fins are looking for a QB.

The Pats need a back-up because they lost Cassell in the off-season.

The Bills' FO, for better or worse, is committed to Edwards and signed Fitzpatrick to be the back up.

Your logic, if there is any, appears to be "The Pats and Fins drafted QB's with some similarities to Vick, therefore the Bills should sign Vick." It doesn't make any sense. The Bills are in different places with their QB situations and run different styles of offense, plus, unlike the rookies, Vick has already had his chance on the field and shown some serious limitations. Seriously, you're really grasping at straws on this one. I probably could have just stopped with "what the hell are you talking about?"
Bud yer the one grasping....

There is zero difference personnel wise between the Pats and Fins getting Wildcat QBs when they already have established pocket passers and the Bills doing the exact same thing.

The Pats are in the exact situation we are in...

Established starting QB, weapons on the outside and a stable of RBs what the heck is the difference between them and us exactly?

The Pats got a QB like Edelman because they want to run a version of the Wildcat. Using your logic they shouldn't because he wont be able to get the WRs the ball like Brady can. Which is obvious. But they didn't draft him for that purpose they drafted him so they can draw up a package suitable to his skills that they can attack defenses with.

Which is exactly what I am suggesting Buffalo should do.

So go ahead and tell me once again how we have great WRs and Vick wont be able to get them the ball ...

[Mahdi]

I agree. Vick would also not be a fit in buffalo by any stretch of the mind. Hes a speed QB who will defintley screw up our OL. 1st off if it isnt hard enough having Wood switch to G, Butler to RT, Walker to LT, and Hangartner starting, then you now have a QB who will run around forcing you to move basically with him and make sure the DL is always at a angle that he wont tackle Vick even though thats almost impossible.
If Vick is not a fit in Buffalo.... Pat White is not a fit in Miami. How is Pat White anything like Pennington or Henne?

[Boomstick]

Didn't he also believe in Shawn King?

[Mitchell55]

Vick runs to much. He drops back looks at his 1st WR and maybe the TE and then starts running.

[Mahdi]

Vick runs to much. He drops back looks at his 1st WR and maybe the TE and then starts running.
Thats the idea. Last time I checked running for a first down counts too.

[OpIv37]

Bud yer the one grasping....

There is zero difference personnel wise between the Pats and Fins getting Wildcat QBs when they already have established pocket passers and the Bills doing the exact same thing.

The Pats are in the exact situation we are in...

Established starting QB, weapons on the outside and a stable of RBs what the heck is the difference between them and us exactly?

The Pats got a QB like Edelman because they want to run a version of the Wildcat. Using your logic they shouldn't because he wont be able to get the WRs the ball like Brady can. Which is obvious. But they didn't draft him for that purpose they drafted him so they can draw up a package suitable to his skills that they can attack defenses with.

Which is exactly what I am suggesting Buffalo should do.

So go ahead and tell me once again how we have great WRs and Vick wont be able to get them the ball ...

The Pats and Fins needed QB's PERIOD. You're suggesting that we take a Wildcat QB when we DON'T need a QB.

So, go ahead and tell me again how great it would be to sign a player with limited mental ability and off-the field issues to run 10 gimmick plays a game that will essentially relegate our expensive playmakers to decoys.

[Mitchell55]

Annalysts are also projecting alot of teams to be interested. They are predicting around 20 teams. Well then we would have to give up alot of money for 6-7 plays a game.

[OpIv37]

and one more thing- do you REALLY think that Bill Bellicheck is going to take his Pro Bowl, record setting QB out of the game to put in a package with Edelman to run the Wildcat? That sounds like something a 10 year old playing Madden would do.

[Mahdi]

The Pats and Fins needed QB's PERIOD. You're suggesting that we take a Wildcat QB when we DON'T need a QB.

So, go ahead and tell me again how great it would be to sign a player with limited mental ability and off-the field issues to run 10 gimmick plays a game that will essentially relegate our expensive playmakers to decoys.
The Pats and Fins chose QBs that add another dimension to their offense, not just any QBs.

Dont just argue for the sake of arguing man, you know dang well that Pat White and Edelman were drafted to run certain plays for them not because they needed QBs in general.

Dolphins have Pennington and Henne... Pats have Brady and O'Connell. Pretty sure their QB situations are better than ours.

[OpIv37]

The Pats and Fins chose QBs that add another dimension to their offense, not just any QBs.

Dont just argue for the sake of arguing man, you know dang well that Pat White and Edelman were drafted to run certain plays for them not because they needed QBs in general.

Dolphins have Pennington and Henne... Pats have Brady and O'Connell. Pretty sure their QB situations are better than ours.

Pats, yes. Fish, no. Pennington is old and limited. Henne has shown nothing so far.

And seriously, see my previous post. Only a moron would take Brady out of the game to put in a rookie just to run Wildcat plays.

[Mahdi]

and one more thing- do you REALLY think that Bill Bellicheck is going to take his Pro Bowl, record setting QB out of the game to put in a package with Edelman to run the Wildcat? That sounds like something a 10 year old playing Madden would do.
Yer right...

I guess Bill just drafted him for the heck of it... or maybe because he was enamored with the fact that Edelman threw 31 INTS against 30 TD passes ....

Nah, couldn't be that Edelman ran for 2,484 yards and 22 TDs.... Bill is probably just grooming a 6'0 198 pound QB to take over for Brady in a couple of years as the starter.

Good Call, my bad.

[Mahdi]

Pats, yes. Fish, no. Pennington is old and limited. Henne has shown nothing so far.

And seriously, see my previous post. Only a moron would take Brady out of the game to put in a rookie just to run Wildcat plays.
O so the Bills are more set at QB then the Dolphins?

Henne hasn't proven anything and Trent Edwards has? So that's why the Fins can go out and get White but because we have our proven winner in Trent we cant get Vick....

Makes zero sense.

[OpIv37]

Yer right...

I guess Bill just drafted him for the heck of it... or maybe because he was enamored with the fact that Edelman threw 31 INTS against 30 TD passes ....

Nah, couldn't be that Edelman ran for 2,484 yards and 22 TDs.... Bill is probably just grooming a 6'0 198 pound QB to take over for Brady in a couple of years as the starter.

Good Call, my bad.

He was a friggin 7th rounder. They took a chance on the guy.

Do you seriously think Bellicheck is going to take a Pro Bowl, record-setting QB off the field to run a gimmick play with a 7th round draft pick?

You are COMPLETELY overvaluing the Wildcat. It's not an offensive philosophy. It's a play, like a flea flicker or a reverse or a direct snap or an end-around. If you have the personnel to run it, you run it. But you don't draft or sign personnel specifically for that purpose.

Hell, no one even USED the Wildcat until last year, and the team that innovated it lost in the first round of the playoffs. You're acting like an offense can't be successful without a Wildcat component, which isn't the case at all.

[Buddo]

Vick = Garbage. On so many levels it's not true. What on earth is the point of this inanity?

Here's something to ponder. The team that first stuffed the 'wildcat' last year, was the Ravens. Guess who the Jets coach is this year?
The 'wildcat' offense is only likely to be of much use against one team in our division, the Pats. Ryan knows how to stop it already, the Phins practise against it. Bell-end likely knows now, what he has to do to stop it. So it might not be any use at all.

[OpIv37]

O so the Bills are more set at QB then the Dolphins?

Henne hasn't proven anything and Trent Edwards has? So that's why the Fins can go out and get White but because we have our proven winner in Trent we cant get Vick....

Makes zero sense.

Edwards hasn't proven anything but he's proven more than Henne. And like it or not, the Bills have committed to Edwards but the Fish haven't committed to Henne.

This logic of "the Fins got White so we should get Vick" just doesn't make any sense. There are a lot of factors that I mentioned in my last post which you're just choosing to ignore.

[Mahdi]

He was a friggin 7th rounder. They took a chance on the guy.

Do you seriously think Bellicheck is going to take a Pro Bowl, record-setting QB off the field to run a gimmick play with a 7th round draft pick?

You are COMPLETELY overvaluing the Wildcat. It's not an offensive philosophy. It's a play, like a flea flicker or a reverse or a direct snap or an end-around. If you have the personnel to run it, you run it. But you don't draft or sign personnel specifically for that purpose.

Hell, no one even USED the Wildcat until last year, and the team that innovated it lost in the first round of the playoffs. You're acting like an offense can't be successful without a Wildcat component, which isn't the case at all.

You are COMPLETELY overvaluing the Wildcat. It's not an offensive philosophy. It's a play, like a flea flicker or a reverse or a direct snap or an end-around. If you have the personnel to run it, you run it. But you don't draft or sign personnel specifically for that purpose.

Well it seems the Dolphins and Pats have done just that... drafted Wildcat personnel.

And BTW the Wildcat is an offensive system in itself. Its not just a play. It is a philosophy and a strategy that can grow and can be used with many different components. You can run several plays out of a Wildcat so by definition it can't be a 'play' in itself.

[OpIv37]

Well it seems the Dolphins and Pats have done just that... drafted Wildcat personnel.

And BTW the Wildcat is an offensive system in itself. Its not just a play. It is a philosophy and a strategy that can grow and can be used with many different components. You can run several plays out of a Wildcat so by definition it can't be a 'play' in itself.

At best, it's a formation. It is NOT a philosophy or a strategy.

Hell, why don't we go try to find an Alstott-like FB so we can run the triple option out of the wishbone. That makes as much sense as trying to staff up for the Wildcat.

[Mahdi]

Edwards hasn't proven anything but he's proven more than Henne. And like it or not, the Bills have committed to Edwards but the Fish haven't committed to Henne.

This logic of "the Fins got White so we should get Vick" just doesn't make any sense. There are a lot of factors that I mentioned in my last post which you're just choosing to ignore.
Edwards is not more proven than Henne at all...

Edwards has proven that he has a weak arm, can't throw in bad weather and regresses as he plays more.

Am I against Edwards, no, but he hasn't proven any more than a rookie QB. O wow, we know he is accurate and a nice guy. There are guys sitting at home with those same traits.

[OpIv37]

Edwards is not more proven than Henne at all...

Edwards has proven that he has a weak arm, can't throw in bad weather and regresses as he plays more.

Am I against Edwards, no, but he hasn't proven any more than a rookie QB. O wow, we know he is accurate and a nice guy. There are guys sitting at home with those same traits.

And there are guys sitting at home with Vick's same traits. What's your point?

[Mahdi]

At best, it's a formation. It is NOT a philosophy or a strategy.

Hell, why don't we go try to find an Alstott-like FB so we can run the triple option out of the wishbone. That makes as much sense as trying to staff up for the Wildcat.
Why not...

hey we can also use Vick in an option offense like Florida does. And then next year we can draft Tebow.

[Mahdi]

And there are guys sitting at home with Vick's same traits. What's your point?
HAHA...

Yeah right... Im sure there are Mike Vick's all over the world. We can probably find a few Barry Sander's and Bruce Smith's lying around too.

[OpIv37]

HAHA...

Yeah right... Im sure there are Mike Vick's all over the world. We can probably find a few Barry Sander's and Bruce Smith's lying around too.

are you kidding me?

Bruce Smith is no worse than the 2nd best player ever to play his position. Barry Sanders is in the top 10- arguably the top 5- at his position.

Vick isn't in the top 50 QB's ever. He may not be in the top 100.

You overvalue Vick and you overvalue the Wildcat.

[Mahdi]

are you kidding me?

Bruce Smith is no worse than the 2nd best player ever to play his position. Barry Sanders is in the top 10- arguably the top 5- at his position.

Vick isn't in the top 50 QB's ever. He may not be in the top 100.

You overvalue Vick and you overvalue the Wildcat.
No Vick is not one of the top 50 QBs, but he is definitely one of the top football player's to ever play though.


At the end of the day... we are going to face this formation 6 times a year. Having Vick will help our defense prepare for it and as I have said before. On the days where Trent cant throw the football having a QB like Vick will be a bonus. What good is a pocket QB who cant throw in bad weather. Might as well have someone back there who can take off. Or someone that will hold the backside of defenses and make our run game more potent.

[OpIv37]

No Vick is not one of the top 50 QBs, but he is definitely one of the top football player's to ever play though.


At the end of the day... we are going to face this formation 6 times a year. Having Vick will help our defense prepare for it and as I have said before. On the days where Trent cant throw the football having a QB like Vick will be a bonus. What good is a pocket QB who cant throw in bad weather. Might as well have someone back there who can take off. Or someone that will hold the backside of defenses and make our run game more potent.

so, now we need Vick to help our D prepare for a formation we might see 60 times over the course of a season (and 60 is probably being generous)?

Come on, man, your arguments are getting worse and worse. We don't need Vick to run the ball in bad weather- we just need offensive linemen who can block. And if they can't, Vick won't be running much either.

[Dr. Lecter]

Edwards is not more proven than Henne at all...

Edwards has proven that he has a weak arm, can't throw in bad weather and regresses as he plays more.

Am I against Edwards, no, but he hasn't proven any more than a rookie QB. O wow, we know he is accurate and a nice guy. There are guys sitting at home with those same traits.
The weak arm stuff is silly and not true at all. Nor is the regressing stuff, once somebody actually looks at the numbers.

Regardless, Henne has nearly as much playing time in the NFL as you or I do. He has shown nothing. Trent has at least shown that, at times, he can play well.

[psubills62]

Honestly, at this point I'm just sick of all the NFL news being about two guys who aren't even on a team: Brett Favre and Michael Vick.

I really don't see Vick as being someone who fits on this team. We've got a lot of offensive weapons. Fred Jackson and Marshawn Lynch are fine running the wildcat (didn't Lynch have a throwing TD last year?). Besides, why would we want to start using a gimmick offense more? I'd rather keep away from the wildcat, personally.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

*Making popcorn*

[Mahdi]

The weak arm stuff is silly and not true at all. Nor is the regressing stuff, once somebody actually looks at the numbers.

Regardless, Henne has nearly as much playing time in the NFL as you or I do. He has shown nothing. Trent has at least shown that, at times, he can play well.
As of right now, the weak arm stuff is very true... can he change that? sure but till now he hasn't shown a strong delivery. His throwing motion last year was horrendous it affected the velocity on his throws. When/if he fixes that maybe his throwing power will improve.

[SABURZFAN]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/22/dungy-on-vick-i-believe-in-him/


Dungy is well known to the NFL community as a decent and upstanding also God-fearing person, if he stands by Vick, so do I.

IMO it takes a good person to forgive.

Get it done Ralph!


no thanks.

[Bill Cody]

I think he'd be a good fit in Cleveland. They do have the dawg pound after all.

[Ginger Vitis]

Why not...

hey we can also use Vick in an option offense like Florida does. And then next year we can draft Tebow.


Hypothetically if you're the GM you'r not going to burn a 1st Round pick on Tebow do run 10 options plays a game are you?

[Throne Logic]

The Pats got a QB like Edelman because they want to run a version of the Wildcat. Using your logic they shouldn't because he wont be able to get the WRs the ball like Brady can. Which is obvious. But they didn't draft him for that purpose they drafted him so they can draw up a package suitable to his skills that they can attack defenses with

Do you really, truly, believe that Bill is going to intentionally take the ball out of Brady's hands on any single offensive play not snapped in garbage time? And replace him with a rookie, no less?!?

Not going to happen.

[Throne Logic]

The weak arm stuff is silly and not true at all. Nor is the regressing stuff, once somebody actually looks at the numbers.

Regardless, Henne has nearly as much playing time in the NFL as you or I do. He has shown nothing. Trent has at least shown that, at times, he can play well.


To build on this point:

Regardless of fan opinions on the abilities of Henne and Edwards, the fact remains that the Bills have committed to Edwards where as the Fins have not committed to Henne.

[DrGraves]

The fact of that matter is this... a Bills team this year with Vick wins more games than without.

Vick is talented, explosive, and a winner. He would help this team in one capacity or another. Even if he took only 10 snaps a game.

[HHURRICANE]

The fact of that matter is this... a Bills team this year with Vick wins more games than without.

Vick is talented, explosive, and a winner. He would help this team in one capacity or another. Even if he took only 10 snaps a game.

I think you are a great poster but I think you have some chronological distortions going on here.

I live in Atlanta and I can tell you that Vick alone took this team on his back the first few years and won games just based on his pure athleticism, etc.

However, teams like Tampa quickly figured out the gimmack and than when he was forced to play in the pocket he was quickly becoming a liability.

He is a coaching staff's nightmare because your o-line can't block for the guy.

He stayed as the starter in Atlanta because he had a huge following and the ticket sales were based on a hip-hop atmosphere. You only needed to attend a few games to realize that benching him wasn't an option.

So the quick answer is that I can't think of a player that I would hate more on the Bills than Michael Vick.

He would be perfect in Detroit because he could win you games that no one else could while building a roster over time.

[Mahdi]

I think you are a great poster but I think you have some chronological distortions going on here.

I live in Atlanta and I can tell you that Vick alone took this team on his back the first few years and won games just based on his pure athleticism, etc.

However, teams like Tampa quickly figured out the gimmack and than when he was forced to play in the pocket he was quickly becoming a liability.

He is a coaching staff's nightmare because your o-line can't block for the guy.

He stayed as the starter in Atlanta because he had a huge following and the ticket sales were based on a hip-hop atmosphere. You only needed to attend a few games to realize that benching him wasn't an option.

So the quick answer is that I can't think of a player that I would hate more on the Bills than Michael Vick.

He would be perfect in Detroit because he could win you games that no one else could while building a roster over time.
If he could win Detroit games,,, why can't he win us games?

[Jan Reimers]

If he could win Detroit games,,, why can't he win us games?
We are not Detroit. We have amongst the best WR and RB corps in the league. We need a QB that can get the ball into the hands of our offensive weapons, not a helter-skelter QB who reads defenses poorly, doesn't throw accurately, and therefore becomes the focal point of an incohesive offense.

[SABURZFAN]

the guy isn't even in football shape. you don't expect him to pick up where he left off, do you? even if he gets a shot to play this year, he won't be the player some of you think he'll be.

[Jan Reimers]

the guy isn't even in football shape. you don't expect him to pick up where he left off, do you? even if he gets a shot to play this year, he won't be the player some of you think he'll be.
My feeling is, he was NEVER the player some think he'll be. And he is a terrible fit for an offense that has great receivers and runners, and needs a guy who will utilize them to the fullest. Vick is the total opposite of that guy.

[Mr. Pink]

My feeling is, he was NEVER the player some think he'll be. And he is a terrible fit for an offense that has great receivers and runners, and needs a guy who will utilize them to the fullest. Vick is the total opposite of that guy.


I'll give you the receivers part of this argument but you are 100% wrong on the rushing assessment. In fact you couldn't be more wrong on the rushing aspect.

You do realize that Atlanta was the one of the top teams in rushing year in and year out when Vick was the starter right?

06 - 2939 rushing yards
05 - 2546 rushing yards
04 - 2672 rushing yards
03 - 1949 rushing yards - Vick started 4 games
02 - 2368 rushing yards
01 - 1762 rushing yards - Vick started 2 games

From 04-06 Dunn averaged over 1200 yards a season. Let me know when our great RB gets there.

[Jan Reimers]

I'll give you the receivers part of this argument but you are 100% wrong on the rushing assessment. In fact you couldn't be more wrong on the rushing aspect.

You do realize that Atlanta was the one of the top teams in rushing year in and year out when Vick was the starter right?

06 - 2939 rushing yards
05 - 2546 rushing yards
04 - 2672 rushing yards
03 - 1949 rushing yards - Vick started 4 games
02 - 2368 rushing yards
01 - 1762 rushing yards - Vick started 2 games

From 04-06 Dunn averaged over 1200 yards a season. Let me know when our great RB gets there.
So, Vick's rushing was a big part of Atlanta's offense. I would simply prefer a QB who could get the ball to his receivers at better than a 53% lifetime clip, and whose running was not a product of his failure to read defenses and find his receivers. And I would prefer Lynch and Jackson to carry the ball - they are very good RBs - rather than a guy who is running for his life because he can't run an offense.

[Mr. Pink]

So, Vick's rushing was a big part of Atlanta's offense. I would simply prefer a QB who could get the ball to his receivers at better than a 53% lifetime clip, and whose running was not a product of his failure to read defenses and find his receivers. And I would prefer Lynch and Jackson to carry the ball - they are very good RBs - rather than a guy who is running for his life because he can't run an offense.


Let's compare the 06 rushing of the Falcons without even considering what Vick did which was over a 1000 yards on his own to the Bills last year.

Dunn 286 for 1140 yards Norwood 123 for 633 yards

Lynch 250 for 1036 yards Jackson 130 for 571 yards

I don't get how you think Vick as a QB hampers the running game, in fact the top 2 backs had more carries with Vick at QB than our two had with Edwards/Losman at QB.

[!Papacrunk!]

wow, The Church of Marv is long defunct. All hail the Please, Please, Please, Let's Win Right Now Church. A place we all will inhabit at some time of our fanhood.

[Nighthawk]

wow, The Church of Marv is long defunct. All hail the Please, Please, Please, Let's Win Right Now Church. A place we all will inhabit at some time of our fanhood.

I agree...but the Phins are no different. Ricky was welcomed back with open arms.

[feldspar]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/05/22/dungy-on-vick-i-believe-in-him/
If Dungy Believes in him, so do I

Dungy is well known to the NFL community as a decent and upstanding also God-fearing person, if he stands by Vick, so do I.

IMO it takes a good person to forgive.

Get it done Ralph!

If Dungy jumped off the Brooklyn Bridge, would you do it too?

[Ginger Vitis]

I agree...but the Phins are no different. Ricky was welcomed back with open arms.

And so was Jason Taylor

[feldspar]

Let's compare the 06 rushing of the Falcons without even considering what Vick did which was over a 1000 yards on his own to the Bills last year.

Dunn 286 for 1140 yards Norwood 123 for 633 yards

Lynch 250 for 1036 yards Jackson 130 for 571 yards

I don't get how you think Vick as a QB hampers the running game, in fact the top 2 backs had more carries with Vick at QB than our two had with Edwards/Losman at QB.

Vick fumbles a lot. He's fumbled the ball 55 times in 67 starts. He's good for almost a fumble a game.

As a QB, who is traditionally supposed to throw the ball, his passing percentage of completions sucks. He's not very good at throwing the ball...not very accurate. In his big rushing year where he ran for over 1,000 yards, he completed only 52.6% of his passes. Nobody knows what he is going to do half the time, including himself and his teammates.

Also, Vick hasn't played football in two years and counting. He won't even be considered for reenstatement until near the end of July. He's not going to be ready to play this year, ask me.

I wouldn't want Vick to be my QB even before this whole dog thing. Now, with all the baggage that he will bring along with him, I don't want him on my team. Give him another chance? Sure, but not on my team, and I think a good deal of fans of all teams feel the same way.

[!Papacrunk!]

I agree...but the Phins are no different. Ricky was welcomed back with open arms.
"...A PLACE WE ALL WILL INHABIT AT SOME POINT OF OUR FANHOOD"

and how much crap were we given for taking in a problem player during the Church of (GM) Marv era deeming every Bills player a saint that could do no wrong while the Dolphins were penned the Dolfelons. Not you, but there has been some newly discovered hypocrites

[DynaPaul]

So let me get this straight. Now that we have an A+ wide receiver corps some of you want to sign a quarterback who can't get it to the wide receivers?

[Luisito23]

I love, and respect Tony Dungy, and I'm also glad that he was interacting with Vick, but that's no legit reason for Buffalo to sign him...He'll get another chance somewhere, but it won't be with the Bills...:historian:

[justasportsfan]

WE have one hell of a RB line-up. WE have one hell of a wr corps. What we need is someone who can make the passing game potent that will open up the running game or vice versa. Vick isn't that qb. He isn't gonna make anyones passing game potent. We need a gunslinger not another rb.

[Philagape]

The two-year layoff makes everything he's done in the past irrelevant and therefore not worth creating an entire offensive scheme just for him, which would be needed. And for a guy who would miss most if not all of OTAs and mini-camps.
And certainly not worth the circus that would ensue.