Jacksonville missing Stroud!!

[HHURRICANE]

Del Rio admitted on Sirrius that DT is now a weakness on the team and that there were too many expectations for players to step up. Never mentioned Stroud by name but they are desperate for a DT.

[ddaryl]

Stroud is their P. Williams, but at least they got a draft pick...

Did we even get a compensation pick for Pat?

[HHURRICANE]

Stroud is their P. Williams, but at least they got a draft pick...

Did we even get a compensation pick for Pat?

Watching Winfield play great every year nauseates me. I'm afraid Peters is going to be our Stroud.

[Syderick]

O well thats how things go

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Well, I didn't watch the Jaguars much last season but I remember that in 07 both Rob Meir and John Henderson did a great job in the d-line, maybe that was the reason they didn't want to keep Stroud especially after the suspension.

I guess Meir and Henderson didn't live to the expectations last season.

[billogic99]

Del Rio admitted on Sirrius that DT is now a weakness on the team and that there were too many expectations for players to step up. Never mentioned Stroud by name but they are desperate for a DT.

Are you suggesting Stroud was dominant for us? Cause if you are, that's not what I remember. I think he played well, but that shouldn't suggest he is missed by the Jags. I was not thrilled signing Stroud, I had high hopes for Rogers, instead we sign a guy who plays well, but doesn't dominate his position. Maybe with a year under his belt in this system and some outside pressure Stroud will elevate his game, but so far I'm not overly impressed.

[OpIv37]

Watching Winfield play great every year nauseates me. I'm afraid Peters is going to be our Stroud.

Pat Williams and London Fletcher are already our Stroud's. Peters and Greer could be next.

[Goobylal]

Well, I didn't watch the Jaguars much last season but I remember that in 07 both Rob Meir and John Henderson did a great job in the d-line, maybe that was the reason they didn't want to keep Stroud especially after the suspension.
Yeah it was the reason. But they were wrong.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Are you suggesting Stroud was dominant for us? Cause if you are, that's not what I remember. I think he played well... ...but so far I'm not overly impressed. You are crazy, he was the best player in the entire defense.

[dasaybz]

Pat Williams and London Fletcher are already our Stroud's. Peters and Greer could be next.
Greer has to be the most overrated Buffalo Bill of all time.

He was ****ing garbage, and got roasted almost every game.

Why do people actually think he was good?

[dasaybz]

You care crazy, he was the best player in the entire defense.
That's not saying much.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Well, to be able to shine in a mediocre defense is not easy.

[dasaybz]

Well, to be able to shine in a mediocre defense is not easy.
It's not?

[Goobylal]

Well if you don't think too much about Stroud, he was ranked as the 8th best DT in the NFL. So there.

[billogic99]

You are crazy, he was the best player in the entire defense.

Yeah, so! What exactly does that prove? It's not like the Bills had the best defense in the league and Stroud lead the way. Like I said he played well, he just didn't dominate his position. Obviously making the pro bowl isn't the end all be all, but there are players making the pro bowl because they dominate their position, Stroud didn't make the pro bowl.

He could have, he could have dominated his position and earned a pro bowl selection despite the other players around him, did he? No! My point is he played OK, but not well enough to make people in Jacksonville wish he were still there. To me, making the pro bowl and being one of the best at your position on a different team is how you make people wish they still had your services, not by playing OK on a team that won just 7 games. The Bills had the 22nd ranked rushing defense in 08 hardly worthy of mention.

[Kenny]

Pat Williams and London Fletcher are already our Stroud's. Peters and Greer could be next.

Agreed with Fat Pat, -but I dont miss Fletcher at all.

[Goobylal]

Yeah, so! What exactly does that prove? It's not like the Bills had the best defense in the league and Stroud lead the way. Like I said he played well, he just didn't dominate his position. Obviously making the pro bowl isn't the end all be all, but there are players making the pro bowl because they dominate their position, Stroud didn't make the pro bowl.

He could have, he could have dominated his position and earned a pro bowl selection despite the other players around him, did he? No! My point is he played OK, but not well enough to make people in Jacksonville wish he were still there. To me, making the pro bowl and being one of the best at your position on a different team is how you make people wish they still had your services, not by playing OK on a team that won just 7 games. The Bills had the 22nd ranked rushing defense in 08 hardly worthy of mention.
Jason Peters made the Pro Bowl last year. Did he "dominate [his] position?"

[BillsWin]

Stroud was the best move the current front office has made to date. (Pending on the outcome of T.O.)

[billogic99]

Jason Peters made the Pro Bowl last year. Did he "dominate [his] position?"

Larry Fitzgerald made the pro bowl, did he dominate his position? James Harrsion made the pro bowl did he dominate his position? Like I said the pro bowl isn't the end all be all, but making it for the majority of players is a trip earned. Bottom line chances are if Stroud had earned a pro bowl selection he would have had one. He didn't get a selection cause he didn't earn a selection.

You can act like it's a meaningless achivment because every year a few players make it in that don't deserve it, but there are a whole lot more who earn their spot.

[Goobylal]

Larry Fitzgerald made the pro bowl, did he dominate his position? James Harrsion made the pro bowl did he dominate his position? Like I said the pro bowl isn't the end all be all, but making it for the majority of players is a trip earned. Bottom line chances are if Stroud had earned a pro bowl selection he would have had one. He didn't get a selection cause he didn't earn a selection.

You can act like it's a meaningless achivment because every year a few players make it in that don't deserve it, but there are a whole lot more who earn their spot.
Fine, we'll assume that everyone who makes the Pro Bowl deserves it. You do realize then that the top-3 DT's make the Pro Bowl from each conference, right? That leaves another 22 DT's (in the AFC at least) who didn't make it. So that means that Stroud, while not making the Pro Bowl, could still have been a top-5 DT, right? Hence the reason he was ranked 8th going into this coming season.

[billogic99]

Fine, we'll assume that everyone who makes the Pro Bowl deserves it. You do realize then that the top-3 DT's make the Pro Bowl from each conference, right? That leaves another 22 DT's (in the AFC at least) who didn't make it. So that means that Stroud, while not making the Pro Bowl, could still have been a top-5 DT, right? Hence the reason he was ranked 8th going into this coming season.

If you read what I wrote I don't/didn't "assume" everyone who makes the pro bowl deserves to be there, just the majority. As for Stroud being ranked 8th best, who's ranking are you refering? Yours? ESPN, Sporting news? Who has him ranked 8th? It's not like it matters, it's just one ranking. Like I said Stroud had an ok season, nothiong special. Lets not get carried away with what the players on this team do simply because they are Bills. Maybe the reason we can't seem to get past 7 win seasons and no playoffs is because some people think it's ok to be avg and celebarte that fact.

[dasaybz]

If you read what I wrote I don't/didn't "assume" everyone who makes the pro bowl deserves to be there, just the majority. As for Stroud being ranked 8th best, who's ranking are you refering? Yours? ESPN, Sporting news? Who has him ranked 8th? It's not like it matters, it's just one ranking. Like I said Stroud had an ok season, nothiong special. Lets not get carried away with what the players on this team do simply because they are Bills. Maybe the reason we can't seem to get past 7 win seasons and no playoffs is because some people think it's ok to be avg and celebarte that fact.
I totally agree dude. Stroud was invisible for much of the season. Sure, he had a nice couple of games, but for the most part, he was a non factor.

[billogic99]

I totally agree dude. Stroud was invisible for much of the season. Sure, he had a nice couple of games, but for the most part, he was a non factor.

Yeah like I said, Stroud played OK, just not so well that Jacksonville is wishing they didn't move him. Nevertheless, I have hopes his game will move up a level this year and become a legit run stuffer and pocket disrupter. I hope he makes Jacksonville sorry they got rid of him, it's only going to make this team better if he does.

[Goobylal]

Your opinions are in the minority. But you have every right to voice what you feel you saw. And it goes to show you that one player can't do it all himself. The rest of the DL was poor and the LB'ing corps wasn't as good as many would have liked, yet still the defense kept the team in every game except for the Cards game. And if the Bills didn't have Stroud last year, they would have had an awful defense.

[billogic99]

Your opinions are in the minority. But you have every right to voice what you feel you saw. And it goes to show you that one player can't do it all himself. The rest of the DL was poor and the LB'ing corps wasn't as good as many would have liked, yet still the defense kept the team in every game except for the Cards game. And if the Bills didn't have Stroud last year, they would have had an awful defense.

Well I'm not here to piss in anyones cheerios and I agree everyone has their own opinion. But I did a little checking and found some rather unimpressive stats by Stroud last year. According to his numbers, he was 129th in the league in sacks, behind some 32 other DT/NT's. Stroud was 266th in the lague in Tckls I didn't even bother to see how many DT/NT that had more tckls than Stroud because it went some 8 pages deep to get to 266.

Now I know there is more to this game than stats and I know stats don't tell the whole story, but according to those numbers, Stroud was/is far from being the 8th best DT in the league. I didn't watch Bills games and just ignore a dominant season or even great season by Stroud last year, I saw a guy play OK and his numbers support that opinion.

Maybe you think 129th in sacks and 266th in tckls is awsome, maybe you think it's great! I don't, I think it's actually below avg. But like you said, I guess my opinion is different than yours.

[casdhf]

For every Pat Williams and London Fletcher, there's a Nate Clements or Jonas Jennings. Players come and players go, that's just the way it is.

[Goobylal]

Well I'm not here to piss in anyones cheerios and I agree everyone has their own opinion. But I did a little checking and found some rather unimpressive stats by Stroud last year. According to his numbers, he was 129th in the league in sacks, behind some 32 other DT/NT's. Stroud was 266th in the lague in Tckls I didn't even bother to see how many DT/NT that had more tckls than Stroud because it went some 8 pages deep to get to 266.

Now I know there is more to this game than stats and I know stats don't tell the whole story, but according to those numbers, Stroud was/is far from being the 8th best DT in the league. I didn't watch Bills games and just ignore a dominant season or even great season by Stroud last year, I saw a guy play OK and his numbers support that opinion.

Maybe you think 129th in sacks and 266th in tckls is awsome, maybe you think it's great! I don't, I think it's actually below avg. But like you said, I guess my opinion is different than yours.
It's the bolded part that's most important. Hence the reason The Sporting News had him ranked 8th.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

It's not? If you play defensive tackle for a mediocre team no matter how good you are you are constantly going to get pounded by the opposing offense. To look good in such a defense is good.


Yeah, so! What exactly does that prove? It's not like the Bills had the best defense in the league and Stroud lead the way. Like I said he played well, he just didn't dominate his position. Obviously making the pro bowl isn't the end all be all, but there are players making the pro bowl because they dominate their position, Stroud didn't make the pro bowl.

He could have, he could have dominated his position and earned a pro bowl selection despite the other players around him, did he? No! My point is he played OK, but not well enough to make people in Jacksonville wish he were still there. To me, making the pro bowl and being one of the best at your position on a different team is how you make people wish they still had your services, not by playing OK on a team that won just 7 games. The Bills had the 22nd ranked rushing defense in 08 hardly worthy of mention. Calm down, since when the Pro Bowl is everthing?? *Yikes* only newbies think the Pro Bowl is the best way to judge performances.

And just for your information Stroud doesn't represent the entire rushing defense so I don't care we were ranked in 22nd, you can't foking judge one player performance just by mentioning those stats. Believe me, Jacksonville know they made a mistake.

You can't expect to make such conclutions just by looking at the season record and some general stats. You should better watch the games and see how he was constantly double/triple teamed and still he was good enough.

[trapezeus]

Bills at Jets last year.

I remember seeing stroud triple teamed! and he still made plays. Similarly, on the same play, Denney had one blocker drive him 5 yards down the field. If we had one DE worth a lick that could also handle a double team and/or make use of the one on one matchup, we wouldn't have been as bad as we were defensively.

Stroud did well. given more tools this year and next, he'll be great. if they wait any longer, he'll be over the hill.

[Luisito23]

IMO Stroud still has about 2 or 3 more years, I just hope we don't waste them by having our usual 7-9 seasons.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Bills at Jets last year.

I remember seeing stroud triple teamed! and he still made plays. Similarly, on the same play, Denney had one blocker drive him 5 yards down the field. If we had one DE worth a lick that could also handle a double team and/or make use of the one on one matchup, we wouldn't have been as bad as we were defensively. Yeah, that's exactly my point. Stroud looked pretty good even with a really bad d-line. If we are able to find him better pieces (which I doubt) he would be tremendous.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Larry Fitzgerald made the pro bowl, did he dominate his position? James Harrsion made the pro bowl did he dominate his position? Like I said the pro bowl isn't the end all be all, but making it for the majority of players is a trip earned. Bottom line chances are if Stroud had earned a pro bowl selection he would have had one. He didn't get a selection cause he didn't earn a selection.

There is no way Peters should of made the pro-bowl last, he was god freaking awful. Your a fool to think other wise.

[billogic99]

There is no way Peters should of made the pro-bowl last, he was god freaking awful. Your a fool to think other wise.

Where did I say Peters deseved to be in the pro bowl?

[billogic99]

Calm down, since when the Pro Bowl is everthing?? *Yikes* only newbies think the Pro Bowl is the best way to judge performances.

Where did I say the probowl was everything? I don't think you read my post, I think you read what you wanted to read. What is with you and judging people? Because somone is new to the site that means they just started watching football? What kinda ignorant logic is that?


And just for your information Stroud doesn't represent the entire rushing defense so I don't care we were ranked in 22nd, you can't foking judge one player performance just by mentioning those stats. Believe me, Jacksonville know they made a mistake.

For your information I never said Stroud represented the "entire defense". All I said was Stroud had an OK year not a great year and for this you get your panties in a knot. Jacksonville knows that made a mistake by giving up on a guy that ranked 129th in sacks and 266th in tackles? Wow, if that's what they wish they had they must be completly desperate because those numbers are anything but impressive. And BTW, those two stats...are key stats to ANY defensive lineman.


You can't expect to make such conclutions just by looking at the season record and some general stats. You should better watch the games and see how he was constantly double/triple teamed and still he was good enough.

Really? According to the paragraph above you're making a case that records and statistics have no place in determining future success. What sport do you watch? I'll guarantee people think the Pats and Steelers are going to be strong contenders for the SB next year based on records and statistics from the previous season, but you want everyone to ignore records and statistics and judge the Bills on what....hope? I'm not sure your logic makes any sense at all.

[thenry20]

Greer has to be the most overrated Buffalo Bill of all time.

He was ****ing garbage, and got roasted almost every game.

Why do people actually think he was good?

Wow.

I watched every game last year and didn't see him get toasted. McGee I can quite vividly remember as being "trash" in that Miami game. But then again the coaching staff rushed him from injury just because they didn't trust their #1 pick. Brilliant strategy here.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Where did I say the probowl was everything?

For your information I never said Stroud represented the "entire defense". All I said was Stroud had an OK year not a great year and for this you get your panties in a knot. Jacksonville knows that made a mistake by giving up on a guy that ranked 129th in sacks and 266th in tackles? Wow, if that's what they wish they had they must be completly desperate because those numbers are anything but impressive. And BTW, those two stats...are key stats to ANY defensive lineman.

Really? According to the paragraph above you're making a case that records and statistics have no place in determining future success. What sport do you watch? I'll guarantee people think the Pats and Steelers... First, you basically said that dominant players go to the Pro Bowl so Stroud is not because he didn't. You deny it? Let me rephrase you:

"Obviously making the pro bowl isn't the end all be all, but there are players making the pro bowl because they dominate their position, Stroud didn't make the pro bowl."

So you are saying that Pro Bowl is not everything but then you just deny yourself by saying that a player that doesn't got to the Pro Bowl is not really special in his position. Wow I'm impressed.


Second, I never said you said that Stroud represents the entire defense (don't put words into my mouth) but you used stats that represent the entire team and defense to support your argument that Stroud is nothing special.

"To me, making the pro bowl and being one of the best at your position on a different team is how you make people wish they still had your services, not by playing OK on a team that won just 7 games. The Bills had the 22nd ranked rushing defense in 08 hardly worthy of mention."

You said it, period. Then when you realized those stats were not enough to prove your point you said the following:

"129th in sacks and 266th in tackles?... ...those two stats are key stats to ANY defensive lineman."

Really?? Lets see some stats from te previous season:

Key: Tackles - Sacks

Marcus Stroud: 45 - 2.5
Pat Williams: 44 - 1
Haloti Ngata: 55 - 1
Kris Jenkins: 50 - 1
Casey Hampton: 22 - 1
Tommie Harris: 37 - 5
Fred Robbins: 36 - 5.5

So basically only Rogers and Wilfork had much more tackles than Stroud. How many tackles you want Stroud to make? 1000? 50 sacks maybe?

So that's the reason why you think he is an "ok" (that sounds pretty mediocre to me) player?


You didn't impress me at all.

[justasportsfan]

Stroud was aight but not dominating.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

"Ok" and "alright" souds like if we were underrating him, I understand he was not at all dominating like Haynesworth (I actually never said he was dominating) but he was pretty darn good. Many people here sound like if he was just average, normal, ok and that stuff but he was more than that. He was really good, especially with Denney and Kelsay in the same line.

[justasportsfan]

OK , he was solid but not dominating ;) . I think he can be better if we had better production from our DE's and a coaching staff who's philosophy is to play to win and not play not to lose.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

"Solid" sounds much better than "normal" and "ok", I would say very solid. He is one of the ten best defensive tackles in the league, he is indeed special.

[billogic99]

OK , he was solid but not dominating ;) . I think he can be better if we had better production from our DE's and a coaching staff who's philosophy is to play to win and not play not to lose.

Gee isn't that basically what I said?

[billogic99]

"Solid" sounds much better than "normal" and "ok", I would say very solid. He is one of the ten best defensive tackles in the league, he is indeed special.

Jesus, you're ridiculous.

[acehole]

Del Rio admitted on Sirrius that DT is now a weakness on the team and that there were too many expectations for players to step up. Never mentioned Stroud by name but they are desperate for a DT.

That is funny because Funtimesya said stopping the run is the qb fault!

:chuckle:

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Gee isn't that basically what I said? No it was not, I guess you can't even use correctly your language. You called Stroud a "normal" "non-special" player which basically means average player.


Jesus, you're ridiculous. Wow, another great response by billogic! Damn, you are the new worst thing that has happened to this forum in a while.

[billogic99]

No it was not, I guess you can't even use correctly your language. You called Stroud a "normal" "non-special" player which basically means average player.

Wow, another great response by billogic! Damn, you are the new worst thing that has happened to this forum in a while.

I've placed you on ignore. I won't be responding to your ignorant posts anymore.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

So far you have haha.