Whitner 9th best saftey in NFL per sporting news...

[sauce]

<!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Whitner gets alot of hate on this MB....glad to see scouts have him in the top 10. His play will only rise if the Bills get a pass rush

Oh btw do you see Micheal Huff on that list because I dont

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn...c.php?t=553552 (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=553552)

Safety rankings: Reed, Polamalu are pure playmakers
E-MAIL PRINT COMMENTS 27 WATCH THIS TOPIC
Posted: May 27, 2009
The salty veterans still lead this group, but there are some promising young players on the rise. Several have made the list while several others just missed. With the next generation emerging, this list could look a lot different a year from now. RealScouts, Sporting News' team of former NFL scouts, rank their top 20 safeties for '09:

1. Ed Reed, Ravens. Reed was the only unanimous selection for the 2008 All-Pro team and rightly so. He led the NFL with nine interceptions and returned two for touchdowns, and he tacked on another TD in the playoffs. The system won't change in Baltimore this year, and Reed is on his way to a Hall of Fame career if he can stay healthy.


2. Troy Polamalu, Steelers. Polamalu was healthy for all 16 games and the postseason for the first time since 2005 and turned in a career-high seven interceptions in 2008. He's a high-energy player who can do it all, from blitzing to tackling to playing in coverage. He can attack from anywhere on the field.

3. Adrian Wilson, Cardinals. Wilson is not quite as dominant as he was earlier in his career, but he can still excel in most aspects of the game. Wilson is at his best playing close to the line, but he also makes plays on the ball in coverage. He has great size and can deliver big hits with the best of them.

4. Bob Sanders, Colts. Sanders played in just six games in 2008, and there is a chance he might not be healthy for the start of 2009. He is a game-changing player who has great range and is a punishing tackler, but he has struggled to stay healthy throughout his career.


5. Chris Hope, Titans. Returning from a spinal injury in 2007, Hope earned Pro Bowl honors last season. He's not a flashy player, but he is extremely productive and consistently plays at a high level. He's willing in run support and shows good range and route recognition in coverage. He has missed just five games over the past six seasons.

6. Nick Collins, Packers. Collins is a four-year starter who burst onto the scene in 2008 with seven interceptions, including three returned for scores. He has excellent range as a center field-type safety and has the speed to cover a lot of ground and make plays with the ball in his hands. A Pro Bowler last season, he should excel in Green Bay's new zone schemes.

7. Brian Dawkins, Broncos. Though he still can play at a high level, Dawkins, 35, is closer to the end of his career than he would like to admit. He's a strong tackler who is excellent near the line. But blitzing and coverage aren't his strengths, and we're curious to see how he does in a non-Jim Johnson system.

8. Michael Griffin, Titans. His seven interceptions were tied for second in the NFL last season, and he earned a Pro Bowl spot as Ed Reed's replacement. He's emerging as one of the best young safeties in the league, with a combination of size, speed and athleticism that makes him excellent in deep coverage.

9. Donte Whitner, Bills. Pending legal issues aside, Whitner is an instinctive playmaker who can play in traffic or in space. He is a rising young player who has a physical style and is strong in run support.

10. Kerry Rhodes, Jets. He is a playmaker who can excel in coverage or make an impact near the line as a run defender or blitzer. He figures to benefit from Rex Ryan's aggressive scheme and will likely align all over the field in a Ed Reed type of role. Look for him to return to Pro Bowl form this season.

11. Ken Hamlin, Cowboys. He has great range and can track down a lot of balls playing center field. He is at his best jumping routes in zone coverage but can also match up with tight ends and wideouts in the slot.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Oh my god why did you post this?

[OpIv37]

strong in run support? Like when he got flattened twice last year? Or when he took bad angles against the Giants 3 times in one game? And where did this "physical" style thing come from? He rarely if ever makes big hits, unless the guy is already 8 yards into the endzone.

And once again, the myth of Whitner supercedes the reality.

[psubills62]

I'm very surprised to not see Antoine Bethea, Indy's other safety, on that list. Bethea's range and skills are the main reason that 1) Bob Sanders can play the box like he does, and 2) very few deep passes are completed on the Colts. I believe one of the last couple years they led the league in fewest long TD passes allowed. He's a very good safety and much better than some of the others on that list.

[Dr. Lecter]

6 minutes.

Op is slipping in his old age.

[psubills62]

strong in run support? Like when he got flattened twice last week? Or when he took bad angles against the Giants 3 times in one game? And where did this "physical" style thing come from? He rarely if ever makes big hits, unless the guy is already 8 yards into the endzone.

And once again, the myth of Whitner supercedes the reality.

I find it a little funny that you continue to belabor the "8 yards deep in the end zone" thing while you and others ream me out for mentioning the big hit on Chad Johnson. Both of them only happened once, and it's not like either of them define the way Whitner plays.

I'm not necessarily defending him because I think he needs to step up this year for sure. I just find it ironic that you constantly remind us of the "8 yards deep in the end zone" thing, but when I mentioned the huge hit on Johnson...well, that only happened once so it obviously has no bearing on analysis of Whitner's career, right?

[OpIv37]

Oh btw do you see Micheal Huff on that list because I dont



Huff not being worth the 7th pick has nothing to do with whether Whitner was worth the 8th pick or whether Whitner deserves to be so high on the list.

I just don't understand the obsession with this guy. He's average at best on the the field, he's never lived up to expectations, he runs his mouth, and he gets in trouble off the field. Yet, everyone treats him like a god and refuses to criticize him, even when he's clearly wrong. The constant defense of mediocrity is nauseating.

[OpIv37]

I find it a little funny that you continue to belabor the "8 yards deep in the end zone" thing while you and others ream me out for mentioning the big hit on Chad Johnson. Both of them only happened once, and it's not like either of them define the way Whitner plays.

I'm not necessarily defending him because I think he needs to step up this year for sure. I just find it ironic that you constantly remind us of the "8 yards deep in the end zone" thing, but when I mentioned the huge hit on Johnson...well, that only happened once so it obviously has no bearing on analysis of Whitner's career, right?

I threw it in there more to be sarcastic than anything else. I know he only did it once.

But there's a key difference. Go into the advanced search and do a search for "Whitner" and "hard hitter" to see how many times the reference comes up. It's commonly accepted that the guy is a hard hitter even though he's had ONE in his entire career.

He doesn't have that same link to making late hits- as he shouldn't- but people like to defend St. Donte constantly and tend to have selective memories when it comes to him. That's why people like me have to keep reminding everyone of that little incident.

[bigbub2352]

i will have to respectfulyl disagree with him being 9th in the league, im sorry i just dont see it, he misses alot of tackles in the box, he is an arm tackler, and he isnt physical like this article states, and he is not a ball hawk he just may be to small to play SS and mite be better off as a CB or FS,
I know alot of people like him, im just not that impressed
would have served us better if Ngata was the 8th overall pick

[Tatonka]

OP.. you are the only one that seems obsessed with whitner.

[Mr. Pink]

I would like to meet Whitner and ask him how he went from being an awesome safety at Ohio St to pathetically average and another guy in the NFL.

Instinctive playmaker? I'd like to ask the author of this crap what play, let alone plays that playmakers generally make, has Donte made since becoming a Bill.

Just one. BTW, tackling Johnnie Lee Higgins 7 yards deep in the endzone doesn't count.

[Dying_-2-_Live]

Donte Whitner is a safety... he can only do so much himself. He is not great, but I do believe he is very solid.

[TheMan08]

HOW THE **** IS WHITNER RANKED HIGHER THAN KERRY RHODES???

[more cowbell]

agreed....I have no idea how anyone can think whitner is better than rhodes

[mayotm]

Number 9 is probably a little high. Then again, he's not as bad as some on this site claim he is. The truth is likely somewhere in the middle.

[Italian Stallion]

whitner is outta here when his deal expires. you heard it here first

[kid mickey]

Pretty bad when people on here bash what most real analysts view as one of the best players of his position.

[OpIv37]

Pretty bad when people on here bash what most real analysts view as one of the best players of his position.

lmao.

First, most of the "real" analysts watch less Bills football than the posters on this board. They spend all their time paying attention the teams from large markets and the teams that are winning.

Second, it cracks me up how every media guy who says something bad about the Bills is a hack trying to stir up controversy, and every media guy who says something good about the Bills is a "real analyst."

Whitner is FAR from one of the best players at his position. The Worship of St. Donte continues.

[TheMan08]

I'd trade Donte to Philly for Quentin Demps... Won't happen i know. But that kids gunna be solid. He has great ball hawking skills and hits hard, very athletic. Watch him this year. He is taking over for Dawkins.

[kid mickey]

lmao.

First, most of the "real" analysts watch less Bills football than the posters on this board. They spend all their time paying attention the teams from large markets and the teams that are winning.

Second, it cracks me up how every media guy who says something bad about the Bills is a hack trying to stir up controversy, and every media guy who says something good about the Bills is a "real analyst."

Whitner is FAR from one of the best players at his position. The Worship of St. Donte continues.

Wrong way wrong. The guys who did this watched film of these guys. It isn't just pull a name and number out of a hat. I firmly believe Aaron Schobel is a bum. I wrote an article about it. I am critical of players and this team. I'm just critical of the guys who ain't doing anything. Whitner is not one of those guys.

[OpIv37]

Wrong way wrong. The guys who did this watched film of these guys. It isn't just pull a name and number out of a hat. I firmly believe Aaron Schobel is a bum. I wrote an article about it. I am critical of players and this team. I'm just critical of the guys who ain't doing anything. Whitner is not one of those guys.

How do you know how much film these guys watched? Honestly I don't think they just pulled a name out of a hat- I think they only pay attention to the Bills if they are watching an opposing player and a Bills player stands out, hence their sample size is much smaller. To be fair, I don't know how much tape these guys watched either, but I'd be willing to bet that they've seen a LOT more of Ed Reed than they have of Whitner.

There are certainly guys on this team who are worse than Whitner- I'll agree with that. My problem is that a) Whitner does not live up to his expectations and b) people on this board (and sometimes the media in general) tends to evaluate Whitner on his unearned reputation rather than his actual performance.

[yordad]

My problem is that a) Whitner does not live up to his expectations and b) people on this board (and sometimes the media in general) tends to evaluate Whitner on his unearned reputation rather than his actual performance.Then why do you blame Whitner for this?

[OpIv37]

Then why do you blame Whitner for this?

because he's not playing up to his abilities.

[yordad]

because he's not playing up to his abilities.Based on whose expectations? Are you saying he isn't trying out there? He isn't giving it all? He is only giving 109%?

[OpIv37]

Based on whose expectations? Are you saying he isn't trying out there? He isn't giving it all? He is only giving 109%?

Based on the FO's expectations when they drafted him at #8. If you went back in time to draft day 2006 and gave the Bills' FO game tapes of Whitner, think they still would have picked him at #8 overall? I know, hindsight is 20/20 and they don't have the benefit on draft day. But someone in the Bills' FO thought Whitner was worth the #8 overall draft pick, and that means he has to do more than just try.

[yordad]

Based on the FO's expectations when they drafted him at #8. If you went back in time to draft day 2006 and gave the Bills' FO game tapes of Whitner, think they still would have picked him at #8 overall? I know, hindsight is 20/20 and they don't have the benefit on draft day. But someone in the Bills' FO thought Whitner was worth the #8 overall draft pick, and that means he has to do more than just try.So you blame Whitner because the team drafted him too high. That is what you are saying.

[OpIv37]

Jesus, I can't believe what I just read. We're giving guys credit for trying now? WTF is this- tee ball? The NFL version of Rudy? What's so wrong about expecting results from the #8 overall draft pick? One of the main reasons why this team has been so unsuccessful is lack of results from high round draft picks.

[OpIv37]

So you blame Whitner because the team drafted him too high. That is what you are saying.

But wait a second....

On draft day, Whitner wasn't a "reach" and those of us who said he was got torn apart. The FO wouldn't make that mistake.

But now that Whitner's not meeting expectations, it's not his fault- it's the FO's for drafting him too high? Why isn't anything EVER St. Donte's fault?

You can't have it both ways. Either the FO screwed up or Whitner isn't living up to his end of the deal. Take your pick.

But, for the record, the only way to fix the mess this team is in is to get performance out of high round draft picks. The FO can't go back in time and change the pick, so the only realistic solution is for Whitner to step up his game.

[Mr. Pink]

Whitner for where he was picked in the draft, is a bust.

For what he brings on the field, he's average, just another guy.

When you're picked that high, you have certain expectations that you are supposed to meet.

Tony Mandarich turned into a serviceable lineman for the Colts but that still didn't shake him of the bust label he acquired.

[ChristopherWalken]

I'm curious... if you were to poll all of the leagues coaches concerning the abilites all starting safety's, where might Whitner fall exactly?

Coaches would consider coachability, leadership skills, versatility, and on-field productivity verse the biased nature of the media or the fans, which formulate their opinions on speculation, stats and the once in a while watched game.

With that being said, I think Whitner would fall middle pack which makes him suitable for this team. Better then having bottom rung talent...but an obvious reach considering where he was drafted.

[Mike]

strong in run support? Like when he got flattened twice last year? Or when he took bad angles against the Giants 3 times in one game? And where did this "physical" style thing come from? He rarely if ever makes big hits, unless the guy is already 8 yards into the endzone.

And once again, the myth of Whitner supercedes the reality.

OP I don't know if you noticed the trend, but the writers were saying nice things about all of the players mentioned.

[DrGraves]

HAHAHAHAHAHAH WHITNER SUCKSSSSSSSSSSSSSS WOW!!!!!

[Mudflap1]

Donte is a serviceable starter, right now. He is okay. I even believe he's really trying to be a leader and step up. So far it hasn't happened though. I hope it does this year. As of right now, you have to look at him as being a disappointment because of where he was drafted. The Bills can't afford to draft average players at #8 overall.

Jon

[yordad]

But wait a second....

On draft day, Whitner wasn't a "reach" and those of us who said he was got torn apart. The FO wouldn't make that mistake.

But now that Whitner's not meeting expectations, it's not his fault- it's the FO's for drafting him too high? Why isn't anything EVER St. Donte's fault?

You can't have it both ways. Either the FO screwed up or Whitner isn't living up to his end of the deal. Take your pick.

But, for the record, the only way to fix the mess this team is in is to get performance out of high round draft picks. The FO can't go back in time and change the pick, so the only realistic solution is for Whitner to step up his game.I don't want it both ways. Donte Whitner is Donte Whitner. How is it his fault he was drafted so high? Was he supposed to say , "Whoa guys, wait a sec. I'm not sure you wanna do that?"

You are the one who wants it both ways. You want to bash the pick at the time, blaming the front office. Then you want to bash Whitner for not playing up to the front offices assessment.

IMO, you can judge the front office based on where Whitner was selected, but as long as Whitner is doing his best out there, that is all I can ask for.

And, I don't think he has been top ten, but I don't think he has been bottom ten either. Somewhere in the middle. Not bad for playing beside a bottom 3 free safety, and behind a bottom three pass rush.

Plus, I called him a reach of draft day (and clearly still today), but I properly blame the FO for where he was selected, not him.

And again, admit it, you hated him before he played a single down cuz of his college.

[billogic99]

I would like to meet Whitner and ask him how he went from being an awesome safety at Ohio St to pathetically average and another guy in the NFL.

Coaching....would be my guess. Rather than making guys earn roster spots and make them feel as if they need to prove themselves every season, for some reason the Bill players are lead to believe the hype and sadly that seems to be good enough for the Bill coaches.

[OpIv37]

I don't want it both ways. Donte Whitner is Donte Whitner. How is it his fault he was drafted so high? Was he supposed to say , "Whoa guys, wait a sec. I'm not sure you wanna do that?"

You are the one who wants it both ways. You want to bash the pick at the time, blaming the front office. Then you want to bash Whitner for not playing up to the front offices assessment.

IMO, you can judge the front office based on where Whitner was selected, but as long as Whitner is doing his best out there, that is all I can ask for.

And, I don't think he has been top ten, but I don't think he has been bottom ten either. Somewhere in the middle. Not bad for playing beside a bottom 3 free safety, and behind a bottom three pass rush.

Plus, I called him a reach of draft day (and clearly still today), but I properly blame the FO for where he was selected, not him.

And again, admit it, you hated him before he played a single down cuz of his college.

Again, his best hasn't good enough. The FO can't go back and fix the pick- the only way this team is going to improve is if guys like Whitner finally step up.

As far as the last sentence, what the hell are you talking about? I'm a Notre Dame fan. OSU did beat ND in a bowl game a few years back, which pissed me off, but that was only the 5th time the schools have ever played each other. There's no rivalry there.

Now, if he had been from USC, Michigan, Purdue or Miami, you'd have a point. It's even tough to swallow guys from Penn St. But Ohio State- meh. They rarely do anything that affects ND.

[Joe Fo Sho]

HOW THE **** IS WHITNER RANKED HIGHER THAN KERRY RHODES???

Ha, that is what we should really be talking about, as it's the most ridiculous part of this ranking.

[yordad]

Again, his best hasn't good enough. The FO can't go back and fix the pick- the only way this team is going to improve is if guys like Whitner finally step up.
Yeah, why him specifically? Everyone needs to step up. Guys like Kyle Williams, Brad Butler, Edwards, and Keith Ellison don't have to step up because of where they were drafted? They get a pass. Everyone else?

I just don't understand how you hold Whitner accountable all the time. Poz, Mitchell, McGee, were all average last year. Do you hate them?

Schobel, Denney, Kelsey, Williams, Ellison, Simpson were all below average, yet you continue to point at Whitner. He is blamed because of where he was drafted, something he had no control over. Again, he is trying his best, on and off the field.

Do you have stronger feelings against McCargo?

[OpIv37]

Yeah, why him specifically? Everyone needs to step up. Guys like Kyle Williams, Brad Butler, Edwards, and Keith Ellison don't have to step up because of where they were drafted? They get a pass. Everyone else?

I just don't understand how you hold Whitner accountable all the time. Poz, Mitchell, McGee, were all average last year. Do you hate them?

Schobel, Denney, Kelsey, Williams, Ellison, Simpson were all below average, yet you continue to point at Whitner. He is blamed because of where he was drafted, something he had no control over. Again, he is trying his best, on and off the field.

Do you have stronger feelings against McCargo?

No, they don't get a pass. I hold all those guys accountable too. The big difference? Where's the "McCargo's a hard hitter" threads? Where's the "it's not Brad Butler's fault- it's the system's" threads? Where's the "It's not Ellison's fault- the bad DL holds him back" threads?

I do complain about all those guys, especially Ellison and McCargo. I've said many times that I'm not convinced that Edwards is the answer. And I said many, many times that Mitchell is hit or miss and Poz gets swallowed up by blockers.

But when I say those things, everyone generally agrees. It doesn't result in 5 pages of people trying to defend them. Why does St. Donte get a pass? Why is it that when I try to hold him accountable, it ALWAYS results in some huge argument? My attacks on Donte are so vehement only because everyone else's defenses of Donte are so vehement.

I just don't understand why people insist on defending this guy to a degree far above and beyond the way any other player on this team is defended. You're doing it right now. I just knocked Shobel in another thread- why aren't you in there defending him as strongly as you're defending Whitner here?

[jamze132]

Anyone drafted in the top 10 should be held accountable more so than someone drafted in the 5th round. Everyone knows the 5th rounder is probably going to be average at best. But when you are the #8 overall, you have to play at a level above the rest. If you can't you are a bust and a horrible draft selection from the FO. In this case, Whitner was in no way worthy of a top 10 pick, is a bust, and a horrible selection in that draft. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

[yordad]

No, they don't get a pass. I hold all those guys accountable too. The big difference? Where's the "McCargo's a hard hitter" threads? Where's the "it's not Brad Butler's fault- it's the system's" threads? Where's the "It's not Ellison's fault- the bad DL holds him back" threads?

I do complain about all those guys, especially Ellison and McCargo. I've said many times that I'm not convinced that Edwards is the answer. And I said many, many times that Mitchell is hit or miss and Poz gets swallowed up by blockers.

But when I say those things, everyone generally agrees. It doesn't result in 5 pages of people trying to defend them. Why does St. Donte get a pass? Why is it that when I try to hold him accountable, it ALWAYS results in some huge argument? My attacks on Donte are so vehement only because everyone else's defenses of Donte are so vehement.

I just don't understand why people insist on defending this guy to a degree far above and beyond the way any other player on this team is defended. You're doing it right now. I just knocked Shobel in another thread- why aren't you in there defending him as strongly as you're defending Whitner here?I said Whitner is average. One of the only ones on the defense that played "upto" average. Stroud, IMO, was the only one who was clearly better then average.

It is just that I blame the others "more" because I feel then did even "less". I do not place a higher burden, or higher blame on Whitner because of where the FO drafted him.

Also, Whitner is still on his way up. Schobel is not. If you put Whitner behind the Ravens '08 front 7 he might look like Ed Reed too.

[justasportsfan]

because he's not playing up to his abilities.
mybe he is maybe he isn't depending on where the coaches put him.

He hasn't been put in one position. He's been moved from one to another. Maybe he's been doing what he's been told to do which doesn't allow him to do much based on the coaching schemes.

We all think Ellison too is a bum but the coaches are high on him . Most likely because he does whats he's told to do but the situation the coaches put him in doesn't allow him to do much either. In this system I think players are made to become role players. Do what they are told to do and let the scheme take care of itself.


Based on the FO's expectations when they drafted him at #8. If you went back in time to draft day 2006 and gave the Bills' FO game tapes of Whitner, think they still would have picked him at #8 overall? I know, hindsight is 20/20 and they don't have the benefit on draft day. But someone in the Bills' FO thought Whitner was worth the #8 overall draft pick, and that means he has to do more than just try.


Huh? The FO and coaches love him therefore he's living up to their expectations. I'm not saying Whitner is anything great and IMO the main reason for that is this dumb ass scheme and coaching philosophy , but I don't think he's as bad as you make him out to be either.

We could bring in Ed Reed and we'd make him look mediocre. Fewell"stick to your assignment and play not to lose.mkay?"

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

Don't get confused, Whitner is HORRIBLE defending the run.

[Mitchell55]

What I find funny is all the anylsts that watch each game over and re watch just about every play of most games think Whitners a great saftey and there are still people knocking him for the simplest stuff.

[OpIv37]

What I find funny is all the anylsts that watch each game over and re watch just about every play of most games think Whitners a great saftey.

and which analysts would this be? And do you have links to where they supposedly contacted Whitner? And how do you know that they actually watch the Bills, let alone Whitner specifically? A lot of the national media guys hardly pay any attention to Buffalo.

[OpIv37]

there are still people knocking him for the simplest stuff.

If he's such a great safety, then he should be able to handle the simplest stuff and we wouldn't have any reason to knock him for not doing it correctly.

Whitner is FAR from great. You've bought into the hype and can't separate it from reality.

[Mitchell55]

If he's such a great safety, then he should be able to handle the simplest stuff and we wouldn't have any reason to knock him for not doing it correctly.

Whitner is FAR from great. You've bought into the hype and can't separate it from reality.


Hype? He was a reach, those are normally the most harshly bashed by the media and have to do alot in the medias eyes. Look at Bey and Jackson, they wont have any hype going into the season, they will start at 0 and have to work there way up. Ngata had hype, lienart had hype, Crabtree has hype. He has worked up in the medias eyes

[OpIv37]

Hype? He was a reach, those are normally the most harshly bashed by the media and have to do alot in the medias eyes. Look at Bey and Jackson, they wont have any hype going into the season, they will start at 0 and have to work there way up. Ngata had hype, lienart had hype, Crabtree has hype. He has worked up in the medias eyes

But, Whitner ISN'T bashed by the media. This article calls him the 9th best safety in the league and talks about what they think he's done well. Ngata and Leinart receive much more scrutiny. Again, Whitner gets a pass for no reason.

[Mitchell55]

But, Whitner ISN'T bashed by the media. This article calls him the 9th best safety in the league and talks about what they think he's done well. Ngata and Leinart receive much more scrutiny. Again, Whitner gets a pass for no reason.



Whitner gets praised for being a solid saftey on a team that has no DL and a so so LB group. Whitner isnt bashed because in the medias eyes from what they have watched they think he is a good/great player.

[OpIv37]

Whitner gets praised for being a solid saftey on a team that has no DL and a so so LB group. Whitner isnt bashed because in the medias eyes from what they have watched they think he is a good/great player.

that just means they haven't watched him enough, either that or the people doing the evaluating don't know as much about football as they think they do.

Still waiting for names and links for those analysts....

[Mitchell55]

that just means they haven't watched him enough, either that or the people doing the evaluating don't know as much about football as they think they do.

Still waiting for names and links for those analysts....



Look at his stats, its not like they make him look good. They have to watch him for anyone to think hes decent. His stats suck but he plays realy well and stops the run and can cover.

[OpIv37]

Look at his stats, its not like they make him look good. They have to watch him for anyone to think hes decent. His stats suck but he plays realy well and stops the run and can cover.

Still waiting for those names.....

It's not the stats. He had a big name coming out of college and a big rep. He's on the United Way commercials and he's been in the news for a few off-the-field incidents. He blogs and does Facebook and Twitter so his name is out there. These labels and his reputation have followed him around but they are undeserved.

He's good at stopping the run? Really? I seem to remember him missing a tackle on McGahee in the hole that led to a 60 yard touchdown. I seem to remember him taking bad angles on long runs 3 times in the SAME GAME against the Giants. I seem to remember him getting flattened by RB's at least twice last year.

To be fair, I've seen him come up and make good plays in in the hole as well- it's not like he screws it up every time. But he makes enough mistakes that "average" in the run game is a more fair assessment than what you said.

[Mitchell55]

Still waiting for those names.....

It's not the stats. He had a big name coming out of college and a big rep. He's on the United Way commercials and he's been in the news for a few off-the-field incidents. He blogs and does Facebook and Twitter so his name is out there. These labels and his reputation have followed him around but they are undeserved.

He's good at stopping the run? Really? I seem to remember him missing a tackle on McGahee in the hole that led to a 60 yard touchdown. I seem to remember him taking bad angles on long runs 3 times in the SAME GAME against the Giants. I seem to remember him getting flattened by RB's at least twice last year.

To be fair, I've seen him come up and make good plays in in the hole as well- it's not like he screws it up every time. But he makes enough mistakes that "average" in the run game is a more fair assessment than what you said.


The McGahee run was Ko and Leonard. Whitner wasnt on that play. He got flattened only 1 time that I remember by Morris after whitners injury. I made a post a month ago going in depth with stats showing our stats vs teams with Whitner, and without. You never responded if I remember correctly which shows alot.

[OpIv37]

The McGahee run was Ko and Leonard. Whitner wasnt on that play. He got flattened only 1 time that I remember by Morris after whitners injury. I made a post a month ago going in depth with stats showing our stats vs teams with Whitner, and without. You never responded if I remember correctly which shows alot.

I have DVR. I watched the McGahee run SEVERAL times to make sure it was Whitner. Believe me, it was friggin Whitner.

He got flattened against Jacksonville as well.

And I did respond to your post. I pointed out that those stats were against DIFFERENT teams and didn't account for the skill level of those teams as well as any other Bills defenders that may have been injured. Whitner isn't the only variable so the difference in stats between when he's there and when he's not there can't be solely attributed to his play.

[Mr. Pink]

That's ok, I can only remember one play from Donte's NFL career...

Tackling Johnnie Lee Higgins 7 yards deep in the end zone.

So you fellas are doing better than me.

[Mitchell55]

That's ok, I can only remember one play from Donte's NFL career...

Tackling Johnnie Lee Higgins 7 yards deep in the end zone.

So you fellas are doing better than me.



Chad Johnson, INT vs Miami?

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

I have learned that "experts" don't actually watch the Buffalo Bills. Last season durings Bills games I remember several commentators of CBS praised the importance of Aaron Schobel (before he got injured) but he was having clearly his worst season of all and no one mentioned that, they were clearly outdated.

Buffalo is not a team that can judge itself by these "experts", Whitner is good in coverages (I liked him when he played as a free safety) but he is HORRIBLE against the run, HORRIBLE! He constantly gets out ran and you don't have to be an expert to see that.

Fok the "experts" argument, we know what we know.

[kid mickey]

a journalist brought up Whitner today in Jauron's press conference, Jauron got all giddy when talking about him. Thinks he is the best player in the secondary and can play FS or SS it really doesn't matter to him. Said he has made a number of outstanding plays for the team and that pass rush and defense back play goes hand in hand. Thought I would post for what its worth.

[OpIv37]

a journalist brought up Whitner today in Jauron's press conference, Jauron got all giddy when talking about him. Thinks he is the best player in the secondary and can play FS or SS it really doesn't matter to him. Said he has made a number of outstanding plays for the team and that pass rush and defense back play goes hand in hand. Thought I would post for what its worth.
I'd like to know which plays he was referring to because I can count on one hand the number of plays Whitner made last year.

Sounds like Jauron is just toeing the company line. Even if he thought Whitner was a piece of ****, he wouldn't say that to the media.

[kid mickey]

No it was the way he said it and how his eyes got all big it was obvious that he was impressed with how Whitner plays the game. I know you don't like him OP, but the coaching staff does. The entire staff defends him, they must see him a lot more than you do and they have game film you'd never have access to so I trust Jauron's evaluation of him over you. No offense.

[OpIv37]

No it was the way he said it and how his eyes got all big it was obvious that he was impressed with how Whitner plays the game. I know you don't like him OP, but the coaching staff does. The entire staff defends him, they must see him a lot more than you do and they have game film you'd never have access to so I trust Jauron's evaluation of him over you. No offense.

The coaching staff that starts Keith Ellison? The coaching staff that can't use a timeout or challenge to save their lives? The coaching staff that called the wrong D and blew the Cowboys game? The coaching staff that called a rollout pass to a FB on 3rd and 1 and blew the Jets game? The coaching staff that can't do better than 7-9? The coaching staff that's only beat 2 playoff teams and 1 team with a +.500 record in two full seasons?

Seriously, you don't know me aside from my posts on here and you have no way of knowing what my level of football knowledge is. So, if you don't value my opinion, I fully understand that and I have no problem with it at all. But at the same time, I have to wonder what this coaching staff has accomplished to make you value their opinion. Performance dictates competence, not position/title.

[Turbo.GUN.Hawk!]

I don't know the point of your argument kid mickey, you are basically saying the coaching staff are mighty gods who can see things we don't in regular season games.

Let me ask you, if a fashion expert tells you Queen Latifah is the hotest girl in the world would you believe him?

Whitner is average.

[The Juice Is Loose]

I wish I had gotten on this thread before it got so long.

Donte Whitner is a bust. Period. He guarantees the playoffs, and how does a follow it up? A 0 INTERCEPTION SEASON.

"But he was injured"

Ok, how'd he do in 2007? A 1 interception season.

2006? A 1 interception season. In the first game.

In his career, he averages 2 interceptions ever 96 football games.

Chris Kelsay has more picks for TD's that Whitner.

If you were putting at ad in the paper for a safety position. It would look like this:

Wanted: 9th best safety in the NFL. Job reguirments: Intercept the football. Stop the other team from completing passes, and generally not score.

He does none. He can't even cover tight ends. He takes horrible pursuit angles, but he goes and guarantee's the playoffs like anything he did, has done, or will do will even remotely effect our chances.

If this team makes the playoffs it sure as hell ain't gonna be cuz of Donte Whitner. Which is why you don't draft a freaking safety that high. You draft a safety when he's the best player on your board, and you have no real needs. The Bills needed a freaking lot, and they pick Donte Whitner. I almost dropped a duece in my shorts on that one. Swear to you.

So then what happened? HE HELD OUT! HE HELD THE F OUT! So if, as that other guy argued, it's not Donte's fault the Bills drafted him so high. HE OBVIOUSLY BELIEVES HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN DRAFTED HIGHER!

The fact is, Ohio State players are good because they are a group of strong players at each position, and they are well coached. NONE OF THEM DO SQUAT IN THE NFL.

Eddie George, Mike Doss, Nate Clements, Maurice Clarett, all their D linemen, I can't even remember their names.

Donte Whitner=Mike Doss=BIZUST!

[The Juice Is Loose]

OpIv...I have agreed with you through this entire thread. And when you talk about the coaches blowing challenges and whatnot, it takes me back, and makes me panic.

Let some **** go man its the off season. Lynch is gonna run people over. We're gonna be good this year.

[The Juice Is Loose]

OpIv...I have agreed with you through this entire thread. And when you talk about the coaches blowing challenges and whatnot, it takes me back, and makes me panic.

Let some **** go man its the off season. Lynch is gonna run people over. We're gonna be good this year.

[The Juice Is Loose]

OpIv...I have agreed with you through this entire thread. And when you talk about the coaches blowing challenges and whatnot, it takes me back, and makes me panic.

Let some **** go man its the off season. Lynch is gonna run people over. We're gonna be good this year.

[kid mickey]

I'm sorry but I am pretty sure nobody on this board could coach an NFL football team, so yea I will take the value of what a coach says over something a blogger says. If you knew so much about the intricacies of the game you would be coaching. I don't care how many times you watch your taped DVR games, the camera doesn't zoom in on every player it follows the ball. Coaches have access to tape where they see every play with every player. What that player did and how he performed. If you went and tried to understand whyAsomugha got paid 45 mil over 3 years you would have to have more tape than just something you see on your TV.

[OpIv37]

I'm sorry but I am pretty sure nobody on this board could coach an NFL football team, so yea I will take the value of what a coach says over something a blogger says. If you knew so much about the intricacies of the game you would be coaching. I don't care how many times you watch your taped DVR games, the camera doesn't zoom in on every player it follows the ball. Coaches have access to tape where they see every play with every player. What that player did and how he performed. If you went and tried to understand whyAsomugha got paid 45 mil over 3 years you would have to have more tape than just something you see on your TV.


This isn't an either/or situation. You don't have to trust a "blogger" or the coaches. It's pretty clear why you don't trust the "bloggers." What isn't clear is WHY you trust the coaches. You could give Paris Hilton access to the same tapes the coaches have- that doesn't mean she's going to come up with a coherent opinion about a player. So, I ask you again: what have our coaches accomplished to make you value their opinions? Performance dictates competence, not title or position.

[psubills62]

HOW THE **** IS WHITNER RANKED HIGHER THAN KERRY RHODES???

I'm kind of curious to see what people think of this thread now, considering Whitner has performed decently when healthy this year and:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3316


FOX Sports' Jay Glazer reports that Jets players tell him the team is benching FS Kerry Rhodes in favor of Eric Smith.

While Rhodes was the starting free safety for the NFL's No. 4 pass defense in the first ten games, he hasn't made a big play all year (no picks, zero forced fumbles, only five pass breakups). He signed a $33.5M extension two offseasons ago, but Rex Ryan is clearly trying to send a message. Ultimately, Rhodes' benching shouldn't stick. The Jets' biggest problems are turnovers on offense and a passing "attack" that's plummeted to 28th in the league.


Demoted Jets FS Kerry Rhodes is due a $2 million roster bonus in the offseason.
The bonus is guaranteed for injury only, so the Jets could easily cut him for "skill" purposes after Rhodes was benched this week. Beat writer Rich Cimini suggests that Rhodes' demotion was due to poor tackling in the team's Week 11 loss to New England. There are also "rumblings" that Rhodes is more focused on his acting and modeling career than on playing football.

[Prov401]

I'm kind of curious to see what people think of this thread now, considering Whitner has performed decently when healthy this year and:

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3316

I still think Whitner has potential. I think he has performed well when healthy this year. It's evident he is not a ball hawk, or a top 5 saftey. However, I do think he is top 10 material. Was he worth an 8th overall pick? Hell no. However, he can't help where he's drafted. That's the front offices' mistake. The guy has heart, and he wears his emotions on his sleeve. He is one of the players that I feel is proud to put on a Bills jersey. He hits hard, and plays hard. I'd like to see what he can do in another scheme with Byrd. I think they would compliment eachother very well. Name me a top strong safety in the NFL in a Cover 2 scheme? Stop thinking, there isn't any. The defensive backs are asked to bend, but not break in this scheme.

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

Whitner reminds me of Kelso, but he's playing SS. Always late on plays, the guy right their after the tackle was made. Oh ya, who could forget the helmet.

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0826/pg2_g_bills_600.jpgOn




on a side note maybe the writer was thinking 9 as in he was drafted #9

[Novacane]

He's not near the top 10. That is a joke.

[Jan Reimers]

Whitner suffers in 2 major areas on this board. 1) He was drafted 8th overall, making our expectations for him very high. 2.) We tend to put his every play under a microscope, while judging other safeties more on casual observation and reputation.

But everytime I see a ranking of safeties by more objective observers (neither as abjectly negative as some of us, nor as blindly supportive as others), he comes off pretty well. Based on these factors and my observations, I side with the more objective outsiders.

[OpIv37]

I have a hard time believing that Whitner is the 9th best S in the NFL when he's only 2nd best on our team.

But that being said, I actually think Whitner had a good game against Jax. I saw him do well in 1 on 1 coverage and he had an effective blitz, amongst other things. He only made one big mistake- late getting over to defend a pass to Mercedes Lewis, which I believe was unfortunately on the game-winning drive for Jax.

[OpIv37]

Whitner suffers in 2 major areas on this board. 1) He was drafted 8th overall, making our expectations for him very high. 2.) We tend to put his every play under a microscope, while judging other safeties more on casual observation and reputation.

But everytime I see a ranking of safeties by more objective observers (neither as abjectly negative as some of us, nor as blindly supportive as others), he comes off pretty well. Based on these factors and my observations, I side with the more objective outsiders.

I question those objective observers precisely because they don't put Whitner under a microscope. They watch the big names like Reed and Polamalu then evaulate everyone else based on highlights and reputations. They may be more objective but they don't have the same amount of information than we do. 90% of this board watches more Bills football than any of these national media guys.

[Block "O"]

LOL at Bills fans!!! They currently hate every player on the roster besides Freddie Jackson and Jairus Byrd...but give it time, they'll be on the hsit list soon enough :air: Gee I wonder why no one wants to play here.

[k-oneputt]

LOL at Bills fans!!! They currently hate every player on the roster besides Freddie Jackson and Jairus Byrd...but give it time, they'll be on the hsit list soon enough :air: Gee I wonder why no one wants to play here.

Not true. we just don't like the overrated , injury riddles, d-backs you send us from OSU.

How was your pagentry and bands at the "Big House",
I had Mich +12, thanks again.

[BILLSROCK1212]

HOW THE **** IS WHITNER RANKED HIGHER THAN KERRY RHODES???
check kerry rhodes stats this year....he wasn't benched like some may say whitner was, because of someone playing better....rhodes was benched because he flat out sucked

[Prov401]

Whitner suffers in 2 major areas on this board. 1) He was drafted 8th overall, making our expectations for him very high. 2.) We tend to put his every play under a microscope, while judging other safeties more on casual observation and reputation.

But everytime I see a ranking of safeties by more objective observers (neither as abjectly negative as some of us, nor as blindly supportive as others), he comes off pretty well. Based on these factors and my observations, I side with the more objective outsiders.

Exactly.

[RockStar36]

I don't like Whitner at all.

I went from defending him prior to this season to hating him.

I do like Jairus Byrd though.

[Novacane]

Whitner suffers in 2 major areas on this board. 1) He was drafted 8th overall, making our expectations for him very high. 2.) We tend to put his every play under a microscope, while judging other safeties more on casual observation and reputation.

But everytime I see a ranking of safeties by more objective observers (neither as abjectly negative as some of us, nor as blindly supportive as others), he comes off pretty well. Based on these factors and my observations, I side with the more objective outsiders.



Whitner suffers on this board because he seldom makes any plays. Are you going to go by the rankings of some "objective observers" or by what you see game after game as a Bills fan. These objective observers are the so called experts who are wrong more than they are right on most thier opinions. I admit I'm not up on the best safeties in the league other than the obvious top 3-4 guys that stand out. Maybe whitner is top ten. If he is then safety play in the NFL sucks.

[Block "O"]

Not true. we just don't like the overrated , injury riddles, d-backs you send us from OSU.

How was your pagentry and bands at the "Big House",
I had Mich +12, thanks again.
I had a great time thanks!!!! It really wasn't the big house, it was more The Shoe North in all honesty. I also wasn'ty very popular in my Justin Boren jersey :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34ec9iI7Q4Q&feature=player_embedded

Thanks for asking though, you are a nice young man.

[Jan Reimers]

Whitner suffers on this board because he seldom makes any plays. Are you going to go by the rankings of some "objective observers" or by what you see game after game as a Bills fan. These objective observers are the so called experts who are wrong more than they are right on most thier opinions. I admit I'm not up on the best safeties in the league other than the obvious top 3-4 guys that stand out. Maybe whitner is top ten. If he is then safety play in the NFL sucks.
I think that just like a parent is often tougher on his own kid, fans tend to expect more from their teams' players. Whitner is not a playmaker, but plays well against the run. He is not spectacular like Reed, Polamalu, or Sanders, but is a steady, dependable performer.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Kerry Rhodes has been down right brutal this year. I've been forced to watch every Jet game.

[BADTHINGSMAN]

strong in run support? Like when he got flattened twice last year? Or when he took bad angles against the Giants 3 times in one game? And where did this "physical" style thing come from? He rarely if ever makes big hits, unless the guy is already 8 yards into the endzone.

And once again, the myth of Whitner supercedes the reality.

Agreed, Whitner is a overhyped useless bum. Byrds made more plays in a few games than Whitner has as a Bill.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Agreed, Whitner is a overhyped useless bum. Byrds made more plays in a few games than Whitner has as a Bill.

Byrd made more plays than any safety in nfl, not just donte. Guy has 8 ints

[BADTHINGSMAN]

Byrd made more plays than any safety in nfl, not just donte. Guy has 8 ints

Definitly im just comparing him to Whitner though.

[DrGraves]

WHITNER SUCKS. HE RIDES THE BENCH NOW FOR A REASON.

[life of faith]

Trent Edwards is a top 9 QB too http://www.billievers.com/forums/images/smilies/stirthepot.gif

[Meathead]

yes but hes number one in catching taser barbs

[kernowboy]

Whitner plays a different game and role to Byrd so it is not fair to compare the two. Whitner brings a lot to the team in an unheralded way but the issue is, the trade down to George Wilson is not that marked that we couldn't afford to trade Donte and use the draft pick to fill a need elsewhere.

After all, we'd still have Wilson, Scott, Byrd, Johnson and Wendling on the roster, and if Wilson was not able to step up over a full season, we could take the opportunity to draft Davonte Shannon.

Whitner is neither as useless as some make out, nor as vital to the team as some might suggest.

[Beastie Bills]

He rarely if ever makes big hits, unless the guy is already 8 yards into the endzone.

Hey, don't forget that nice hit he put on Freddy Jackson in the pre-season. Granted, that was at practice......in a walk-through.....with no pads. But still...

[Philagape]

LOL at Bills fans!!! They currently hate every player on the roster besides Freddie Jackson and Jairus Byrd...but give it time, they'll be on the hsit list soon enough :air: Gee I wonder why no one wants to play here.

Gee, I wonder why this team hasn't had a winning season going on six years.

What are Bills fans thinking??!?!?!

[Block "O"]

Gee, I wonder why this team hasn't had a winning season going on six years.

What are Bills fans thinking??!?!?!

Sorry they caught you after they discovered you were one of the hoodlums painting penises on McKelvins yard.

[Griff]

If they redid this, Byrd would be in the top 10.

[Block "O"]

And Edwards would be undrafted backing up Losman in the UFL where he belongs.

[Griff]

And Edwards would be undrafted backing up Losman in the UFL where he belongs.

except that he out played your boyfriend's hero to get his spot, so in reality Losman would be backing him up.
'

[Block "O"]

except that he out played your boyfriend's hero to get his spot, so in reality Losman would be backing him up.
'

Im glad you agree he belongs in the UFL.

[Griff]

Im glad you agree he belongs in the UFL.

I'm glad you were able to do yordad's bidding well enough to turn a thread about Whitner into Trent.