Can anyone explain why this board...

[HHURRICANE]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?

[Dr. Lecter]

Nobody is OK with mediocrity.

God, I hate when people say that. It is annoying as hell.

[DMBcrew36]

I'm predicting 5 wins, actually.

[DBrown77]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?

whats wrong with being excited for the upcoming season? That"s why we are called "fans"

Plus everyone thinks their team is going to do big things in June

[Jan Reimers]

We're fans. Part of the fun of being a fan is believing (or at least hoping) that your team can turn it around, catch lightning in a bottle, go from worst to first, outhouse to penthouse, etc.

Fans can suspend logic this time of year and dream that we can be this year's version of the Arizona Cardinals or Miami Dolphins.

If you can't imagine the Bills being a contender, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, what's the fun of being a fan?

[OpIv37]

Of course we all want and hope that this is the year when the Bills finally surprise people and play well. The difference is that some of us are able to separate hope from expectations.

Given all the problems we had last year, and the way they were addressed (ie, they either weren't addressed at all or were addressed with rookies who aren't ready), it's not reasonable to expect good things to happen.

It would be more fun to suspend logic and go "WWWHHHHOOOOO! Everyone's 0-0! Bills rule! Pats Suck! 16-0! Super bowl baby!" but I just can't do it. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

[justasportsfan]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?


go to a pats mb. they are predicting playoffs there.

[djjimkelly]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?


all they would have had to do was switch coaching staffs and i would have been drinking the kool aid again

[Dr. Lecter]

Of course we all want and hope that this is the year when the Bills finally surprise people and play well. The difference is that some of us are able to separate hope from expectations.

Given all the problems we had last year, and the way they were addressed (ie, they either weren't addressed at all or were addressed with rookies who aren't ready), it's not reasonable to expect good things to happen.

It would be more fun to suspend logic and go "WWWHHHHOOOOO! Everyone's 0-0! Bills rule! Pats Suck! 16-0! Super bowl baby!" but I just can't do it. Sometimes ignorance really is bliss.

I don't disagree with that assessment.

But the accepting mediocrity crap is the pessimists version of the optimist "you are not a Bills fan" line of crap.

[bigbub2352]

I am not overly optimistic with any team with such a poor coaching staff, and pro personnel
I am a fan however and i get excited at the very mention of Bills football
so i will continue to torcher myself

[FlyingDutchman]

can someone explain to me why some people have a mission to tear down people who dont constantly piss and moan about this team. why do people want other fans to constantly come down to their miserable world. we're not sitting here with blinders on, just always being miserable and discussing negative crap isnt a lot of peoples version of fun.

[OpIv37]

I don't disagree with that assessment.

But the accepting mediocrity crap is the pessimists version of the optimist "you are not a Bills fan" line of crap.

sometimes, not always.

When people defend Donte Whitner or Dick Jauron or Aaron Schobel, it's really tough to say they're not defending mediocrity. Schobel hasn't lived up to expectations for years and Jauron and Whitner have never lived up to expectations.

When people talk about our great S/T, it wreaks of defending mediocrity, because those great S/T have come at the price of overall depth, which is one of many problems this team has had in recent years.

When people defend Tom Modrak without acknowledging the role he had in Donahoe's debacle years, it's defending mediocrity.

It is crap to apply the "accepting mediocrity" line universally to everyone who thinks the team will do well, but there are certainly times when it is very appropriate.

[OpIv37]

can someone explain to me why some people have a mission to tear down people who dont constantly piss and moan about this team. why do people want other fans to constantly come down to their miserable world. we're not sitting here with blinders on, just always being miserable and discussing negative crap isnt a lot of peoples version of fun.

There's a flip side to this.

Can someone please explain to me why some people have a mission to make us feel good about a team that hasn't been good in over a decade? Why do people want other fans to constantly repeat the few positive things about this team but they get upset when others mention the very real deficiencies that this team has. Choosing not to discuss "negative crap" because it's not fun isn't a lot of people's ideas of a reasonable discussion.

[justasportsfan]

can someone explain to me why some people have a mission to tear down people who dont constantly piss and moan about this team. why do people want other fans to constantly come down to their miserable world. .

secereting a huge amount of Estrogen?

[justasportsfan]

There's a flip side to this.

Can someone please explain to me why some people have a mission to make us feel good about a team that hasn't been good in over a decade? Why do people want other fans to constantly repeat the few positive things about this team but they get upset when others mention the very real deficiencies that this team has. Choosing not to discuss "negative crap" because it's not fun isn't a lot of people's ideas of a reasonable discussion.

I'm always excited about a new season. It's a new begining.

[Ed]

How can you not be excited? We got T.O.!

I love me some me!

[Dr. Lecter]

sometimes, not always.

When people defend Donte Whitner or Dick Jauron or Aaron Schobel, it's really tough to say they're not defending mediocrity. Schobel hasn't lived up to expectations for years and Jauron and Whitner have never lived up to expectations.

When people talk about our great S/T, it wreaks of defending mediocrity, because those great S/T have come at the price of overall depth, which is one of many problems this team has had in recent years.

When people defend Tom Modrak without acknowledging the role he had in Donahoe's debacle years, it's defending mediocrity.

It is crap to apply the "accepting mediocrity" line universally to everyone who thinks the team will do well, but there are certainly times when it is very appropriate.

It depends what they are defending them about.

Schobel, for example, was playing very well against the run last year before his injury. Whitner, while not an All-pro, is not as bad as you portray him at times. So not all defending of these guys is bad (defending Jauron on game day is baseless - Monday through Saturday he is OK). And people have the habit of defending people because they are associated with their team, not because they are happy with mediocrity.

As for the ST, one has to wonder if it is more coaching. They core guys of the ST that have been let go usually find jobs elsewhere. Stamer, Wire, Haggan all were employed and productive last year. So maybe the depth was not as bad as some say and the guys were not used properly. All three were branded as guys who would never get another NFL job.

[OpIv37]

I'm always excited about a new season.

no one's trying to tell you not to be.

But some of us want to discuss the team- EVERYTHING about the team- and unfortunately, there are a lot of bad things about this team at the moment. We just want an all-encompassing discussion and a full analysis, which includes both the good and the bad.

[OpIv37]

It depends what they are defending them about.

Schobel, for example, was playing very well against the run last year before his injury. Whitner, while not an All-pro, is not as bad as you portray him at times. So not all defending of these guys is bad (defending Jauron on game day is baseless - Monday through Saturday he is OK). And people have the habit of defending people because they are associated with their team, not because they are happy with mediocrity.

As for the ST, one has to wonder if it is more coaching. They core guys of the ST that have been let go usually find jobs elsewhere. Stamer, Wire, Haggan all were employed and productive last year. So maybe the depth was not as bad as some say and the guys were not used properly. All three were branded as guys who would never get another NFL job.


You can say Whitner's not as bad as I make him out to be, and that may or may not be true, but this is definitely true: any team that spends #8 overall draft picks on guys with Whitner's production will not be successful. Blame the FO for reaching on the draft pick, blame Whitner for not meeting expectations- blame both, I really don't care. At the end of the day, lack of production from high round draft picks is one of the major problems that has held this team back over the last decade. It frustrates the hell out of me when people try to defend the Whitner pick or defend Whitner himself without seeing that connection.

[madness]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?
Maybe you should first figure out just what a "winning attitude" is. Right now the Special Olympics have one up on you.

Vince Lombardi
It's not whether you get knocked down; it's whether you get up.

Special Olympics (& Bills :snicker:) Motto
Let me win, but if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt.

Norman Vincent Peale
Never talk defeat. Use words like hope, belief, faith, victory.

Dwight Eisenhower
No one can defeat us unless we first defeat ourselves.

[justasportsfan]

no one's trying to tell you not to be.

But some of us want to discuss the team- EVERYTHING about the team- and unfortunately, there are a lot of bad things about this team at the moment. We just want an all-encompassing discussion and a full analysis, which includes both the good and the bad.
even if it's been beaten to death?

some people are going overboard (HH)and then saying that they are done as bills fans and will become pats fans and then come back and still wonder why no one else follwed him and wants to know why we are still excited.

[Jan Reimers]

I don't accept mediocrity and I hate losing as much as anyone on this board. When I was younger and healthier, I would have temper tantrums and smash things when we lost.

I just choose not to be miserable this time of year, because I've been miserable enough during the season for far too long now.

[FlyingDutchman]

There's a flip side to this.

Can someone please explain to me why some people have a mission to make us feel good about a team that hasn't been good in over a decade? Why do people want other fans to constantly repeat the few positive things about this team but they get upset when others mention the very real deficiencies that this team has. Choosing not to discuss "negative crap" because it's not fun isn't a lot of people's ideas of a reasonable discussion.

this is a fan message board of one of the toughest organizations to be a fan of in sports. this isnt politics. we're not changing the world in this fan forum. our discussions here are also not changing the bills organization. we simply come here to chat and share info. not to constantly dwell on how hard it is to be a bills fan. we are all already aware. give it a rest.

[madness]

even if it's been beaten to death?

some people are going overboard (HH)and then saying that they are done as bills fans and will become pats fans and then come back and still wonder why no one else follwed him and wants to know why we are still excited.

Actually I was more excited about HH becoming a Pat's fan than the Bills upcoming season.

:sadwalk:

[justasportsfan]

Actually I was more excited about HH becoming a Pat's fan than the Bills upcoming season.

:sadwalk:
we bills fans are just cursed.

[OpIv37]

Maybe you should first figure out just what a "winning attitude" is. Right now the Special Olympics have one up on you.

Vince Lombardi
It's not whether you get knocked down; it's whether you get up.

Special Olympics (& Bills :snicker:) Motto
Let me win, but if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt.

Norman Vincent Peale
Never talk defeat. Use words like hope, belief, faith, victory.

Dwight Eisenhower
No one can defeat us unless we first defeat ourselves.

that's all well and good IF YOU'RE ON THE TEAM. But none of us are. We're just fans. We don't even personally know the players. Our attitudes have absolutely ZERO effect on the outcome of the games.

[OpIv37]

even if it's been beaten to death?

some people are going overboard (HH)and then saying that they are done as bills fans and will become pats fans and then come back and still wonder why no one else follwed him and wants to know why we are still excited.

People will always go overboard.

As far as "beaten to death", people only complain about things being beaten to death when it's something they don't want to hear. Steve Johnson being a pleasant surprise and our good RB's and WRs have been beaten to death, but no one seems to care about that.

[OpIv37]

this is a fan message board of one of the toughest organizations to be a fan of in sports. this isnt politics. we're not changing the world in this fan forum. our discussions here are also not changing the bills organization. we simply come here to chat and share info. not to constantly dwell on how hard it is to be a bills fan. we are all already aware. give it a rest.

well a lot of the info that we have to share and chat about isn't good. Just deal with it already because it's not getting better anytime soon.

[Buckets]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?

I have questions; why do guys like you hang around here? Whats your motivation? Just to throw stones and tell us why the Bills suck? What is the purpose of this thread? Do you not want the team to do well? What control of the situation do you have? Do you really think any of your negative comments will have any affect? What is the purpose of constant *****ing, why not be hopeful?

Just wondering

[THATHURMANATOR]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?
Because we have winning mentalities.

I can't be bothered with loser talk.

[OpIv37]

I have questions; why do guys like you hang around here? Whats your motivation? Just to throw stones and tell us why the Bills suck? What is the purpose of this thread? Do you not want the team to do well? What control of the situation do you have? Do you really think any of your negative comments will have any affect? What is the purpose of constant *****ing, why not be hopeful?

Just wondering

Once again, it's the issue of separating hope from expectations.

We all HOPE the Bills do well- that's the definition of being a fan.

But expectations are different. Some of us like to look at the team realistically and try to come up with reasonable expectations and predictions. And there are plenty of legitimate reasons to be pessimistic about this team this year.

This isn't billsblindhomerzone.com. The board is to discuss the team- both the good and the bad- and recently there's been a hell of a lot more bad than good. It sucks, but it's the reality.

[OpIv37]

I can't be bothered with loser talk.

then why bother replying to this thread at all?

Some of you act like we're actually on the team or at least in the locker room. We're not. We're fans on the internet. Our attitudes have ZERO bearing on how the team does.

[FlyingDutchman]

well a lot of the info that we have to share and chat about isn't good. Just deal with it already because it's not getting better anytime soon.

youre the one who cant seem to deal with it, not me

[FlyingDutchman]

then why bother replying to this thread at all?

Some of you act like we're actually on the team or at least in the locker room. We're not. We're fans on the internet. Our attitudes have ZERO bearing on how the team does.

EXACTLY! so its just annoying, and not actually productive....NOW YOU SEE!

[madness]

that's all well and good IF YOU'RE ON THE TEAM. But none of us are. We're just fans. We don't even personally know the players. Our attitudes have absolutely ZERO effect on the outcome of the games.

The Bills knock us all down. Some of us just choose to get back up while others continue to lie on the floor and cry about what just happened. To each his own but I certainly don't tolerate the latter from my kids and I certainly don't have to justify to anyone why you should dust yourself off and get back up. This thread is pointless.

[OpIv37]

EXACTLY! so its just annoying, and not actually productive....NOW YOU SEE!

Annoying to who? you?

Why is it annoying when I complain about Jauron's use of timeouts repeatedly, but not annoying when I mention how much of a pleasant surprise Steve Johnson has been repeatedly?

You define "annoying" not by repetition but by what you agree with/what you personally want to hear.

It doesn't work like that. You can call it annoying all you want, but the facts are that this message board is to discuss the team and right now, there are a lot of negative things about the team. I really don't understand what you expect to see when you log in here. 20 threads going "GO BILLS! WHOOOO!!!" followed by 10 pages of responses that are some mild variation of "HELL YEAH!"?

[OpIv37]

The Bills knock us all down. Some of us just choose to get back up while others continue to lie on the floor and cry about what just happened. To each his own but I certainly don't tolerate the latter from my kids and I certainly don't have to justify to anyone why you should dust yourself off and get back up. This thread is pointless.

There are only so many times that you can get up and dust yourself off when you keep getting knocked down again.

[FlyingDutchman]

Annoying to who? you?

Why is it annoying when I complain about Jauron's use of timeouts repeatedly, but not annoying when I mention how much of a pleasant surprise Steve Johnson has been repeatedly?

You define "annoying" not by repetition but by what you agree with/what you personally want to hear.

It doesn't work like that. You can call it annoying all you want, but the facts are that this message board is to discuss the team and right now, there are a lot of negative things about the team. I really don't understand what you expect to see when you log in here. 20 threads going "GO BILLS! WHOOOO!!!" followed by 10 pages of responses that are some mild variation of "HELL YEAH!"?

no, ive explained it many times. you and HH are annoying as hell. you dont see it bc youre you, but trust me, you guys are annoying as hell. you know im critical of this team as well, just as others are. but we find a way not to be annoying as hell and redundant. at least you seem to have football knowledge, HH just seems to do it for some kind of gimmick or attention.

[Mahdi]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?
If the OL can block and the DL can pressure. We're looking at 10 wins. If they can't were looking at 6-9.

Ppl are pumped because we believe we have done the things necessary to improve.

Added the right kind of guys on the OL and we added a very athletic and talented DE as well as one of the best WRs to ever play lined up opposite one of the best deep ball/speed receivers in the game.

We're basically doing the things we should have done years ago.

[Ingtar33]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?


lol... i wonder where the enthusiasm is coming from as well... but then isn't it fun to let yourself get swept up from time to time?

Remember the Sabres 2 years ago? I loved that feeling and i wasn't in buffalo for it.. i can't imagine how fun it was to be in town during that season, reguardless how it turned out.

i agree with the pessimism... I'm thinking a 3-6 win season is a real possibility... but I'll hold off until i see how they look in preseason. Because i fear for how this season will turn out, it's not hard to clamp down on my enthusiasm... but i might still get swept up.

[DRELOVESBills]

honestly all you ppl who ***** & moan about our team should just shut the hell up and learn to deal!! The reason I say this is because some cities do not even have a team! We are one of the lucky 31 cities!! NewYork city/New jersey has 2 lol

[THATHURMANATOR]

then why bother replying to this thread at all?

Some of you act like we're actually on the team or at least in the locker room. We're not. We're fans on the internet. Our attitudes have ZERO bearing on how the team does.
More loser talk here.

[THATHURMANATOR]

honestly all you ppl who ***** & moan about our team should just shut the hell up and learn to deal!! The reason I say this is because some cities do not even have a team! We are one of the lucky 31 cities!! NewYork city/New jersey has 2 lol
Op just had an a stroke after reading this.

[OpIv37]

honestly all you ppl who ***** & moan about our team should just shut the hell up and learn to deal!! The reason I say this is because some cities do not even have a team! We are one of the lucky 31 cities!! NewYork city/New jersey has 2 lol

Lecter was just complaining how people overuse "accepting mediocrity."

Well, this post is truly accepting mediocrity. It's a pathetic loser's mentality.

We should be happy just to have a team? Bull****. Fans root for the team to win, not simply for them to exist. The line in the Shout song is "Let's go, Buffalo", not "Let's be, Buffalo."

[THATHURMANATOR]

Lecter was just complaining how people overuse "accepting mediocrity."

Well, this post is truly accepting mediocrity. It's a pathetic loser's mentality.

We should be happy just to have a team? Bull****. Fans root for the team to win, not simply for them to exist. The line in the Shout song is "Let's go, Buffalo", not "Let's be, Buffalo."
More loser talk.

[TheMan08]

We should be happy we still have a team. Hope for the best. Lots of cities don't even have franchises.

[gil]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

Wow, generalize much?

Are you omniscient? Do you claim to know that everyone on this board is "pumped?"

Every single day there are posters that are sufficiently skeptical - I don't post as much as others, but I browse the threads everyday and I see plenty of being being skeptical and plenty of people being homers, I guess you don't.


Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.



http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/05/07/friday.insider/

Just trying to refute the 'not one person' bit


So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?


Again with the generalizations - I guarantee no one is happy with 7-9 - for me, it's beyond my control, I just hope for the best in the off-season - I hope young players improve and surprise, I hope veterans earn their money, I hope Dick Jauron gets into traffic accidents on game days.

Despite what my rational mind tells me, I like being optimistic until it all starts to fall apart in tragi-comic fashion, usually around week 5 or 6.

What would you have people do, burn down OBD?

[justasportsfan]

OP, I thought you were done being annoying with your pessimism.

[THATHURMANATOR]

OP, I thought you were done being annoying with your pessimism.
With that and his loser talk it is getting a bit much to stomach!

[THATHURMANATOR]

lol... i wonder where the enthusiasm is coming from as well... but then isn't it fun to let yourself get swept up from time to time?

Remember the Sabres 2 years ago? I loved that feeling and i wasn't in buffalo for it.. i can't imagine how fun it was to be in town during that season, reguardless how it turned out.

i agree with the pessimism... I'm thinking a 3-6 win season is a real possibility... but I'll hold off until i see how they look in preseason. Because i fear for how this season will turn out, it's not hard to clamp down on my enthusiasm... but i might still get swept up.
WTF. We are a better team than last year. Why is a worse record a real possibility?

[Marvelous]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?
-I'm excited simply because i'm happy to have something soo important like The Bills.. &/or it's all i've known my whole life...Winning is a perk. But the early 90's sure was a great time...
---IMO this team is not a playoff team. The easy answer is we lack a general. Trent is not going to be what we need to start a new era.. IMO Trent can dance around .500 7-9----9-7---8-8---etc.. But, nothing more then that imo.. It's getting harder to find BILLS AFC east Champions gear. 1995 is alot longer then i tend to think of it as. :lol:

[THATHURMANATOR]

We are excited because we love football. This is a ******ed question.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We are excited because we are a more talented team then last year.

[billsfanone]

I really haven't seen too much positivity, so I don't know WTF you are talking about HH.

[OpIv37]

WTF. We are a better team than last year. Why is a worse record a real possibility?

We are NOT a better team than last year! Wow you people only see what you want to see.

QB- Same- Push
RB- Added Rhodes but Lynch suspended- Push
WR- added Owens, plus.
TE- Lost Royal- Added Nelson, ???
LT- Walker is not as good as Peters- minus
LG- Levitre over Dock- ???
C- Hangartner over Fowler/Preston- ???
RG- McKinney/Wood over Butler- ???
RT- Butler over Walker- minus

Two minuses, one plus, bunch of question marks.

D- Florence instead of Greer, minus. Added Maybin- ????
One minus, one question mark, everything else exactly the same.

Coaches- same idiots as last year.

How exactly are we a better team? The only way to say we have a better team is to assume rookies who have NEVER played a down in the NFL are better than the guys they're replacing, which is absurd.

[trapezeus]

i bet it's easier to drink the kool aid when you live in buffalo because everyone is rooting together. but having lived in enemy country for 9 years, i'll say this. it's annoying to get into these smack talk conversations every year to only have your team not only play poorly but be laughable when they do it. for me, my 3-13 prediction is part that's what i think about this coaching staff and part self preservation.

Everytime i jabber with jets/pats fans in the past, i really thought, this time the bills are going to bring the thunder and i can't wait to enjoy their pain. but everytime, the bills either get blown out or jp is sendin the ball into the endzone with under two minutes to play. and it's annoying to have to face the music every single time. Over the years, i noticed the trend that the team does nothing to get better. they just want to Billeive. and that's ***** annoying when other teams sign the big names, keep the smart coaches, and are competitive way longer than us.

The bills literally added TO, did nothing on defense but add another small high motor high character outside rusher, and demolished their mediocre OL.

The real chance for this team to turn it around is the small coaching changes they've made on the DL and in the front office. we have to hope that those changes have a multiplying effect. if not, then the team is dead in the water on a monday night in boston.

That's a little hard to have high expectations for. but since i'm a football junkie, i'll be watching every game in my same, praying mode as always. I do hope that this is the year that i get to see a Superbowl championship.

[Jan Reimers]

We are NOT a better team than last year! Wow you people only see what you want to see.

QB- Same- Push
RB- Added Rhodes but Lynch suspended- Push
WR- added Owens, plus.
TE- Lost Royal- Added Nelson, ???
LT- Walker is not as good as Peters- minus
LG- Levitre over Dock- ???
C- Hangartner over Fowler/Preston- ???
RG- McKinney/Wood over Butler- ???
RT- Butler over Walker- minus

Two minuses, one plus, bunch of question marks.

D- Florence instead of Greer, minus. Added Maybin- ????
One minus, one question mark, everything else exactly the same.

Coaches- same idiots as last year.

How exactly are we a better team? The only way to say we have a better team is to assume rookies who have NEVER played a down in the NFL are better than the guys they're replacing, which is absurd.
Op, I think you see only what you want to see, as well. Edwards is still young enough to improve, there is absolutely no proof that Walker can't match Peters' somewhat mediocre 2008 season, or that Butler won't play RT as well or better than Walker. I agree with your questions, but given the sorry state of our TE play, our pass rush, and our interior line, it's a plus for me that we're at least making changes, instead of totally living with last year's crap.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We are NOT a better team than last year! Wow you people only see what you want to see.

QB- Same- Push
RB- Added Rhodes but Lynch suspended- Push
WR- added Owens, plus.
TE- Lost Royal- Added Nelson, ???
LT- Walker is not as good as Peters- minus
LG- Levitre over Dock- ???
C- Hangartner over Fowler/Preston- ???
RG- McKinney/Wood over Butler- ???
RT- Butler over Walker- minus

Two minuses, one plus, bunch of question marks.

D- Florence instead of Greer, minus. Added Maybin- ????
One minus, one question mark, everything else exactly the same.

Coaches- same idiots as last year.

How exactly are we a better team? The only way to say we have a better team is to assume rookies who have NEVER played a down in the NFL are better than the guys they're replacing, which is absurd.
You see what you want to see too. How are you any better?

Your "facts" are not fact just your loser mentality opinion.

[OpIv37]

Op, I think you see only what you want to see, as well. Edwards is still young enough to improve, there is absolutely no proof that Walker can't match Peters' somewhat mediocre 2008 season, or that Butler won't play RT as well or better than Walker. I agree with your questions, but given the sorry state of our TE play, our pass rush, and our interior line, it's a plus for me that we're at least making changes, instead of totally living with last year's crap.

EVERY year we talk about guys improving- in fact, we count on it, and so far it hasn't worked yet.

Walker may be able to match Peters, but all that gets us is 7-9. We need improvement, not simple matching. Butler hasn't played T since college- I'm hoping he can pull it off, but I have to think that if he was better than Walker we never would have signed Walker in the first place (then again, our FO isn't exactly stellar with FA decisions, so that one could go either way).

I'm glad we changed the OL and added a TE but right now we just have no proof that those guys will be better. I suspect they'll be better in time, I just don't think it's realistic to expect them to be ready in time to salvage this season.

[OpIv37]

You see what you want to see too. How are you any better?

Your "facts" are not fact just your loser mentality opinion.

yeah, it must not be a fact that it's unreasonable to assume rookies who have never played in the NFL are better than the guys they're replacing. I just made that **** up out of thin air :rolleyes:.

Your post is a total cop out because you have no legitimate argument to counter me. Pwnd.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I'm glad we changed the OL and added a TE but right now we just have no proof that those guys will be better. I suspect they'll be better in time, I just don't think it's realistic to expect them to be ready in time to salvage this season.

Luckily I do, so were all set.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

yeah, it must not be a fact that it's unreasonable to assume rookies who have never played in the NFL are better than the guys they're replacing. I just made that **** up out of thin air :rolleyes:.

Dockery was absolutly dreadful last year, I certainly think Levitre will be better. Look at the success rate of interior lineman since 05. It's extremely high.

[OpIv37]

Luckily I do, so were all set.

we're basically counting on two rookie offensive linemen, a C who was never a named starter, and an undersized DE to improve over last year. It's just not reasonable to expect ALL of them to come in and play well right away, especially with a star RB suspended, an inexperienced QB and our moron coaching staff.

[OpIv37]

Dockery was absolutly dreadful last year, I certainly think Levitre will be better. Look at the success rate of interior lineman since 05. It's extremely high.

Look at the success rate of guys this FO has drafted (remember, they were all here throughout the Marv and TD regimes). It's extremely low.

So, I'll believe it when I see it.

[PromoTheRobot]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?

Why? To piss off you and Opi! Isn't it obvious?

PTR

[DrGraves]

this board should probably just close down after the season and besides the draft so no one needs to get aggrevating by everyone elses bs.

[SquishDaFish]

Ill be excited all I want thank you. And I am because I LOVE FOOTBALL and my BILLS and will ALWAYS!! I get excited when I know football is coming!

[billogic99]

How can you not be excited? We got T.O.!

I love me some me!

Just the kinda attitude a losing team needs, self gratification! Awesome stuff for bringing a team together and creating harmony and an all for one, one for all mindset.

[Jan Reimers]

So far, TO's been good. Then again, it's June.

[Bufftp]

I am an optimist by nature. As far as the Bills go though, I'm turning into a pessimistic optimist. :(

[Philagape]

With so much up in the air ... rookies, line turnover, improvement of young veterans ... neither side has a basis to bash the other. Both sides have reasonable speculation.
The rookies may be better than the garbage they replaced, or they might not.
The young vets may improve, or they might not, or most likely, some will and some won't (which is a net improvement). It's just as unreasonable to say none of the young guys will improve as it is to say all of them will.
I'm somewhat optimistic. Adding TO is huge, I believe Trent will improve, the line has nowhere to go but up, and the pass rush -- the biggest factor in the D -- will be at least a little better with a part-time Maybin and a healthy Schobel.
But I can understand the pessimists too. Can go either way.
:peace:

[acehole]

I for one am pumped because we after 6 years of waiting have a legit #2 or 2x #1 Wr a pass catching TE and are atleast making an attempt to fill positions of need. If are offense can score and we play ahead for a change we can finally unleash some of the defensive play book that the cover 2 is capable of. With all the db's and speed we can bring the house. Our oline will need time to gel yes but as I said many times this is not the philly offense where they have to hold blocks for 5-8 seconds....they are doing this stupid 3 to 5 step drop west coast hibrid...dump off non scoring offense. We are geared for the run and the short pass. That is why we have trent at qb...smart, accurate short pass game manager..that does not have to stay in the pocket to take a hit. Which is why they probably over looked his injury proneness to grab him and why he lasted until the 3rd round on most teams boards. If trend can sense the rush and stays heathy my guess is we have a shot at the playoffs.....if he cant and gets hurt or he cant hit a barn on the short pass we are in for 8-8. It was the great Dansby who said on this very board "Sacks are on the qb as it means thier clock is broken" We go as Trents clock goes. This was a good draft and we got some good FA's...we have a good starting schedule that has winable games...if we start strong and stay heathy...we could be the dark horse to take the east. Am I placing bets in vagas? No. Am I pissed we did not trade for Briggs and spend a billion on FAs and we are sure to be in last place because the front office did not take your great advice? No.



Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?

[BertSquirtgum]

i think because some of us are actually fans of the Bills and are hoping for a good season. nothing is worse in life than always thinking the worst. such as it seems you do.

[JD]

Trent Edwards will get us to the Super Bowl within the next 5 years. You can all put that in your signature and I will personally hand you each $20 because it WILL happen.

As for this year, I've changed my mind... not 7-9, 9-7 and just missing the playoffs.

Ralph will say we've improved, extends TO for two years and we make the playoffs in 2011 (with a new coach).

[FlyingDutchman]

We are NOT a better team than last year! Wow you people only see what you want to see.

QB- Same- Push
RB- Added Rhodes but Lynch suspended- Push
WR- added Owens, plus.
TE- Lost Royal- Added Nelson, ???
LT- Walker is not as good as Peters- minus
LG- Levitre over Dock- ???
C- Hangartner over Fowler/Preston- ???
RG- McKinney/Wood over Butler- ???
RT- Butler over Walker- minus

Two minuses, one plus, bunch of question marks.

D- Florence instead of Greer, minus. Added Maybin- ????
One minus, one question mark, everything else exactly the same.

Coaches- same idiots as last year.

How exactly are we a better team? The only way to say we have a better team is to assume rookies who have NEVER played a down in the NFL are better than the guys they're replacing, which is absurd.

is this seriously how you assess teams? I love people like you, OTA wanna be scouts. You can never truely asses a team until the games are starting to be played. Remember the dolphins 2 years ago, and the dolphins last year? Teams go up, and teams go down every year. Stop playing the damn card about rookies at gaurd and theyve never played a down blah blah blah....WE HAD FREAKING DUKE PRESTON AND MELVIN FOWLER MANNING THE LINES...THEY FREAKING BLOW, IT CANT POSSIBLY GET WORSE.

QB-Plus (more experienced, players do get better you know)
RB-Plus (Jackson progressing into a hell of a player, and Rhodes brings depth)
WR-Plus (no explanation needed)
TE-Plus (same explanation you had, we lost Royal.)
LT-minus (with as bad as Peters played last year, it was hard not to have this as a push)
LG-Push (Dockery played freaking terrible last year and we are replacing him with one of the top interior lineman to come out of the draft)
C-Plus (Melvin Fowler was a freaking joke last year, this is impossible to be a minus)
RG-Push (A decent player being replaced by a top interior lineman in the draft, this is a wait and see call)
RT- Minus (obviously this will be different for butler to get adjusted and into form.

I could go on, and you could just easily rip this apart, but do you see how its all opinion, stop trying to adjust peoples opinion bc its not what you want to hear. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HOW IS IT ABSURD FOR FANS TO THINK A 2 HIGHLY DRAFTED INTERIOR LINEMAN CAN BY NO MEANS REPLACE FOWLER AND PRESTON...SERIOUSLY....you admit they blew and suddenly its absurd to think the top center (argueably) and top gaurd of the draft could no way replace these guys....such a damn drama queen.

[BertSquirtgum]

I love the Bills! I can't wait to watch them win all year. Go Bills!!!

there you go man. good job

[FlyingDutchman]

lol

[VeggieMan14]

Im cannot wait for the season I have no idea how good or bad we will be but all i know is i get to watch the Bills every sunday win or lose

[OpIv37]

is this seriously how you assess teams? I love people like you, OTA wanna be scouts. You can never truely asses a team until the games are starting to be played. Remember the dolphins 2 years ago, and the dolphins last year? Teams go up, and teams go down every year. Stop playing the damn card about rookies at gaurd and theyve never played a down blah blah blah....WE HAD FREAKING DUKE PRESTON AND MELVIN FOWLER MANNING THE LINES...THEY FREAKING BLOW, IT CANT POSSIBLY GET WORSE.

QB-Plus (more experienced, players do get better you know)
RB-Plus (Jackson progressing into a hell of a player, and Rhodes brings depth)
WR-Plus (no explanation needed)
TE-Plus (same explanation you had, we lost Royal.)
LT-minus (with as bad as Peters played last year, it was hard not to have this as a push)
LG-Push (Dockery played freaking terrible last year and we are replacing him with one of the top interior lineman to come out of the draft)
C-Plus (Melvin Fowler was a freaking joke last year, this is impossible to be a minus)
RG-Push (A decent player being replaced by a top interior lineman in the draft, this is a wait and see call)
RT- Minus (obviously this will be different for butler to get adjusted and into form.

I could go on, and you could just easily rip this apart, but do you see how its all opinion, stop trying to adjust peoples opinion bc its not what you want to hear. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HOW IS IT ABSURD FOR FANS TO THINK A 2 HIGHLY DRAFTED INTERIOR LINEMAN CAN BY NO MEANS REPLACE FOWLER AND PRESTON...SERIOUSLY....you admit they blew and suddenly its absurd to think the top center (argueably) and top gaurd of the draft could no way replace these guys....such a damn drama queen.


lmao at the "more experience" thing. I was fed that line in 2007 after finishing 7-9 in 2006.... and we finished 7-9. I was fed that line in 2008 after finishing 7-9 in 2007, and we finished 7-9. See a pattern developing?

You sit there and say that we can't truly evaluate the team, but then you attempt to evaluate the team. Make up your damn mind.

You call RB an "upgrade" because of more experience for Jackson (see above for criticism of that), and yet you TOTALLY neglect that Lynch is suspended for 3 games, including the opener- which is probably our most difficult game of the year. That's just illogical.

of course we don't know what's going to happen, but my opinions are well reasoned. And I never said that rookies can't replace those linemen- I said they're question marks until we see them play (ie, practically the same thing you said in your first paragraph) and that's unreasonable to expect TWO rookies to IMMEDIATELY play at a high level, which is true.

You think my opinion is what I want to hear? of course it's not. I'd love to be able to come on here and predict the Bills to win the SB, but that's not realistic for a million reasons I've already stated. I NEVER try to adjust other people's opinions- I merely point out why they're not as reasonable as mine.

Your whole argument is based on the concept "well they can't possibly be worse," which is just absurd. Have you been paying attention to the way this FO has drafted? That alone should be reason for concern, but I guess it's trumped by "well they can't possibly be worse." Sounds reasonable :rolleyes:

[SABURZFAN]

Can anyone explain why this board is so "pumped" when the consensus is that the this team is no better than 6-9 wins?

Not one person has predicted playoffs and why.

But this is the same board that will get mad when people make fair asssesments of our o-line or OLB stituation.

So this board is okay with mediocirty and that's what we are getting excited about?

Where is the winning attitude?



i remember a Patriots team that was picked to finish last in their division that ended up winning a Super Bowl. i'm not saying it will happen to us but it goes to show that anything can.

[Buckets]

There are only so many times that you can get up and dust yourself off when you keep getting knocked down again.

Again why do you guys bother if it frustrates you so much. Wouldn't it be much better to root for a winner like the Pats or the AFC East champs the Dolphins?

[ddaryl]

I just look forward to the season. I thought our draft was solid, and we did pick up a couple of key FA's. I believe we have a chance to upset the Patsies at least one time this year, and we will be in the hunt for a playoff spot.

I really just look forward to seeing a team that will show flashes of greatness and give me something to hold onto for the short term future...

Once the season starts and they show their colors for all to see that's when i will praise and rip into team somewhat, but now is the time for just getting excited for the season.

[Buckets]

Lecter was just complaining how people overuse "accepting mediocrity."

Well, this post is truly accepting mediocrity. It's a pathetic loser's mentality.

We should be happy just to have a team? Bull****. Fans root for the team to win, not simply for them to exist. The line in the Shout song is "Let's go, Buffalo", not "Let's be, Buffalo."

And what does your *****ing and moaning do about it? When's the last time the Bills contacted you for your opinion? Just once I'd like to see one of you guys in the drivers seat and see how you would fix things. It's easy to ***** when you don't actually have the resposibility of doing the job.

[FlyingDutchman]

lmao at the "more experience" thing. I was fed that line in 2007 after finishing 7-9 in 2006.... and we finished 7-9. I was fed that line in 2008 after finishing 7-9 in 2007, and we finished 7-9. See a pattern developing?

You sit there and say that we can't truly evaluate the team, but then you attempt to evaluate the team. Make up your damn mind.

You call RB an "upgrade" because of more experience for Jackson (see above for criticism of that), and yet you TOTALLY neglect that Lynch is suspended for 3 games, including the opener- which is probably our most difficult game of the year. That's just illogical.

of course we don't know what's going to happen, but my opinions are well reasoned. And I never said that rookies can't replace those linemen- I said they're question marks until we see them play (ie, practically the same thing you said in your first paragraph) and that's unreasonable to expect TWO rookies to IMMEDIATELY play at a high level, which is true.

You think my opinion is what I want to hear? of course it's not. I'd love to be able to come on here and predict the Bills to win the SB, but that's not realistic for a million reasons I've already stated. I NEVER try to adjust other people's opinions- I merely point out why they're not as reasonable as mine.

Your whole argument is based on the concept "well they can't possibly be worse," which is just absurd. Have you been paying attention to the way this FO has drafted? That alone should be reason for concern, but I guess it's trumped by "well they can't possibly be worse." Sounds reasonable :rolleyes:

i did an evaluation in a slightly mocking manner of you. its so damn pointless and hilarious that you attempt something like that. id comment on the rest of your rambling but its just the same old crap and im not gettin on this merry-go-round

[FlyingDutchman]

I NEVER try to adjust other people's opinions- I merely point out why they're not as reasonable as mine.


......

[FlyingDutchman]

youve got to be kidding me. not trying to make a personal attack, but youre very narrow minded. learn to accept other peoples opinion, respect it, and move on.

[Jan Reimers]

I want to win as badly as anyone, but you can STILL have fun as a fan, even when the Bills are having a tough time.

This time of the year, with new players and renewed hope, is fun. Going to games, tailgating, and having the whole game day experience, is fun. Talking with other Bills' fans, either online or face-to-face, is fun (most of the time).

I'm a serious fan, with a lifetime investment in the Bills, but I can still find fandom fun and enjoyable. I feel bad for those that can't.

[OpIv37]

youve got to be kidding me. not trying to make a personal attack, but youre very narrow minded. learn to accept other peoples opinion, respect it, and move on.

where did this mentality come from that all opinions are equal? where did this mentality come from that we have to accept other people's opinions? This is a message board- if I disagree with someone's opinion, I'm going to discuss why, just like you and I do all the time. It has nothing to do with a lack of respect.

[OpIv37]

Again why do you guys bother if it frustrates you so much. Wouldn't it be much better to root for a winner like the Pats or the AFC East champs the Dolphins?

Yeah, it would.

Go back to the beginning of this thread, though. I'm pot committed. I've been following this team too long to give up now. I'm just extremely frustrated by the way the morons running it have sucked all the fun out of being a Bills fan.

I don't know why I bother. It's irrational, but being a fan is irrational almost by definition.

[FlyingDutchman]

you just dont get it OP.....you just dont get it.....

[FlyingDutchman]

pointing out "why someones opinion is not as reasonable as mine IS a lack of respect"

[acehole]

Jezze why is ever poster with saberfan is his name a complete $%^&*!


Trent Edwards will get us to the Super Bowl within the next 5 years. You can all put that in your signature and I will personally hand you each $20 because it WILL happen.

As for this year, I've changed my mind... not 7-9, 9-7 and just missing the playoffs.

Ralph will say we've improved, extends TO for two years and we make the playoffs in 2011 (with a new coach).

[OpIv37]

And what does your *****ing and moaning do about it? When's the last time the Bills contacted you for your opinion? Just once I'd like to see one of you guys in the drivers seat and see how you would fix things. It's easy to ***** when you don't actually have the resposibility of doing the job.

You don't think I can handle the job? Fine, I have no problem with that.

But you shouldn't be convinced that the Bills' FO can handle the job either. Performance dictates competence, not position. So far, they've done nothing to prove that they're qualified.

[OpIv37]

pointing out "why someones opinion is not as reasonable as mine IS a lack of respect"

no it's not, it's called discussion and disagreement. If someone else's opinion is more reasonable than mine, then I'd change mine. Why would I have an opinion that's less reasonable? That makes no sense.

[FlyingDutchman]

You just dont get it. I cant help you

[OpIv37]

You just dont get it. I cant help you

I'm not the one who doesn't get it.

[FlyingDutchman]

no trust me, you are

[ddaryl]

you just dont get it OP.....you just dont get it.....


I completely agree... He just does not get it.

[FlyingDutchman]

what makes an opinion more "reasonable" is the in the eye of the person making the arguement. Its strictly all OPINION, which has no more value than the next guy making an arguement

[OpIv37]

what makes an opinion more "reasonable" is the in the eye of the person making the arguement. Its strictly all OPINION, which has no more value than the next guy making an arguement

let's take an extreme example:

"I think the Bills will go 0-16 because they have too many black players."

vs.

"I think the Bills will go 7-9 again because they didn't do a good enough job addressing the problems they had last year."

You really think both of those opinions are equally reasonable?

Now, admittedly, this is an absurd example, but it shows how not all opinions deserve equal consideration. One has some thought and reasoning behind it, and the other is completely baseless. The thought and reasoning behind some opinions is better than the thought and reasoning behind other opinions. It's as simple as that.

[FlyingDutchman]

im done. you just dont get it

[OpIv37]

im done. you just dont get it

hahahahaha..... translation: I made my point and you have no way to counter it. Thanks for playing.

[FlyingDutchman]

no, translation youre too dense to continue this convo

[OpIv37]

no, translation youre too dense to continue this convo

I'm dense?

You're the one who believes all opinions are equal. That's extremely naive.

[FlyingDutchman]

once again, you just dont get it. good day to you

[HHURRICANE]

I just got back into town today and started reading the posts on here.

There is no reason that the Bills can't be discussed positively or negatively on this board. There are things like the TO signing that I love. There are things that I hate like the Peters debacle.

The personal attacks when people criticize this team is what makes this board suck at times. If I say this team is screwed for letting Peters walk than saying I'm "a #%* douchbag doesn't really contribute to a good conversation here. However, saying you think Walker will be okay because he played well, etc.. is at least on topic.

There are people on this board that would rather personal attack than discuss the merits of thier opinion.

We'd have buffalobills.com if we never discussed the negatives around here.

[HHURRICANE]

Back to topic, I'm still not sure how people can get excited about a team that they are confident isn't even going to make the playoffs?

Sorry, but I don't get excited about losing.

[justasportsfan]

Back to topic, I'm still not sure how people can get excited about a team that they are confident isn't even going to make the playoffs?

Sorry, but I don't get excited about losing.


Go to a patriots board already.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Holy Crap a ton more LOSER talk since I last posted in this thread... :puke:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Back to topic, I'm still not sure how people can get excited about a team that they are confident isn't even going to make the playoffs?

Sorry, but I don't get excited about losing.
Don't try to pull us down to your level because we are confident people with winning attitudes.

[DMBcrew36]

lmao at the "more experience" thing. I was fed that line in 2007 after finishing 7-9 in 2006.... and we finished 7-9. I was fed that line in 2008 after finishing 7-9 in 2007, and we finished 7-9. See a pattern developing?

You sit there and say that we can't truly evaluate the team, but then you attempt to evaluate the team. Make up your damn mind.

You call RB an "upgrade" because of more experience for Jackson (see above for criticism of that), and yet you TOTALLY neglect that Lynch is suspended for 3 games, including the opener- which is probably our most difficult game of the year. That's just illogical.

of course we don't know what's going to happen, but my opinions are well reasoned. And I never said that rookies can't replace those linemen- I said they're question marks until we see them play (ie, practically the same thing you said in your first paragraph) and that's unreasonable to expect TWO rookies to IMMEDIATELY play at a high level, which is true.

You think my opinion is what I want to hear? of course it's not. I'd love to be able to come on here and predict the Bills to win the SB, but that's not realistic for a million reasons I've already stated. I NEVER try to adjust other people's opinions- I merely point out why they're not as reasonable as mine.

Your whole argument is based on the concept "well they can't possibly be worse," which is just absurd. Have you been paying attention to the way this FO has drafted? That alone should be reason for concern, but I guess it's trumped by "well they can't possibly be worse." Sounds reasonable :rolleyes:

Yeah the experience argument is invalid. I liken it to one part in Arnold Schwartznegger's great film "Pumping Iron," where Arnold tells (Lou Ferrigno, I believe) that they should postpone the competition so Lou can train more because he looks tiny, but that if they do that, Arnold will just train more too and will also get bigger, so Lou will still lose.

Basically, if the Bills players are getting more experienced, so are the players for every other team in the league. So citing more experience as a reason for our team getting better is a load of crap. Except MAYBE if you're talking about Trent Edwards.

[Captain gameboy]

Its sports.
Nobody knows what is going to happen, no matter what they predict.

The University of Virginia baseball team lost two of three to Virginia Tech just prior to the end of the season.
Nobody predicted they would do anything in the ACC tournament, but they go undefeated to win it.

Then they get hosed in the NCAA tourney draw and play in the toughest regional in the country, drawing their first game against a pitcher who is viewed as the best baseball prospect to come out in ten years, (drafted number one overall last night), and beat him.
Then they beat a team that was number one in the nation for awhile, twice, to win it.
After that they go to Oxford,Miss. to play Old Miss in the super regional. As heavy underdogs, they win two of three to advance to Omaha and the College World Series, with seven of nine starters as underclassmen.

Stuff happens. Its sports.

Half of the fun is the unexpected, and getting excited about the possibilities.
It has happened before.
If I wanted predictability, I'd watch CSI reruns.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah the experience argument is invalid. I liken it to one part in Arnold Schwartznegger's great film "Pumping Iron," where Arnold tells (Lou Ferrigno, I believe) that they should postpone the competition so Lou can train more because he looks tiny, but that if they do that, Arnold will have time to train more too and will also get bigger, so Lou will still lose.

Basically, if the Bills players are getting more experienced, so are the players for every other team in the league. So citing more experience as a reason for our team getting better is a load of crap. Except MAYBE if you're talking about Trent Edwards.
Your argument here is invalid. Players don't continue to get better with no platueas. They get to a certain point, plataue for awhile then decline. Other teams in our division have many platuead players.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Its sports.
Nobody knows what is going to happen, no matter what they predict.

The University of Virginia baseball team lost two of three to Virginia Tech just prior to the end of the season.
Nobody predicted they would do anything in the ACC tournament, but they go undefeated to win it.

Then they get hosed in the NCAA tourney draw and play in the toughest regional in the country, drawing their first game against a pitcher who is viewed as the best baseball prospect to come out in ten years, (drafted number one overall last night), and beat him.
Then they beat a team that was number one in the nation for awhile, twice, to win it.
After that they go to Oxford,Miss. to play Old Miss in the super regional. As heavy underdogs, they win two of three to advance to Omaha and the College World Series, with seven of nine starters as underclassmen.

Stuff happens. Its sports.

Half of the fun is the unexpected, and getting excited about the possibilities.
It has happened before.
If I wanted predictability, I'd watch CSI reruns.
:bf1:

[DMBcrew36]

Its sports.
Nobody knows what is going to happen, no matter what they predict.

The University of Virginia baseball team lost two of three to Virginia Tech just prior to the end of the season.
Nobody predicted they would do anything in the ACC tournament, but they go undefeated to win it.

Then they get hosed in the NCAA tourney draw and play in the toughest regional in the country, drawing their first game against a pitcher who is viewed as the best baseball prospect to come out in ten years, (drafted number one overall last night), and beat him.
Then they beat a team that was number one in the nation for awhile, twice, to win it.
After that they go to Oxford,Miss. to play Old Miss in the super regional. As heavy underdogs, they win two of three to advance to Omaha and the College World Series, with seven of nine starters as underclassmen.

Stuff happens. Its sports.

Half of the fun is the unexpected, and getting excited about the possibilities.
It has happened before.
If I wanted predictability, I'd watch CSI reruns.

Maybe if you're talking about one game - yeah, in one game anything can happen, sometimes. But there's also a law of averages and things usually fall out the way they should.

Games are not flipping a coin - it's not 50/50. The better teams often win, as they should. The Bills have fielded mediochre and inferior teams for a while now and we're still running on a decade without playoffs. So yeah, "anything can happen" SOMETIMES, but the team is still pathetic until proven otherwise. Watch a Bills/Patriots game from anytime in the past 5 years and see how long your "anything can happen" mentality lasts - usually not even til the end of the 1st quarter before it's "****, game over."

[ddaryl]

hahahahaha..... translation: I made my point and you have no way to counter it. Thanks for playing.


no that is not at all.. AND THIS POST IS EXACTLY WHAT PEOPLES ISSUE WITH YOU IS. You will argue and debate until you feel justified or you finally wear others down to th epoijnt they just give up with you. It's you just absolutly refusing to even consider anything else and beating your opinion down everyones throat until they just give up dealing with you.

You do it anytime someone doesn't agree with you or your outlook. you become obsessed with the need to be justified for your opinion. Others opinions offend you when they do not match yours, and you ramble on about it for 4 +pages challenging everyone who dares to quote you..

the bottom line is OP you do not get why we choose to put positive spins on the offseason leading up to the season. We do it because this is where we get enjoyment from being a fan. When a guy like you comes along and pisses in everyones cheerioes because YOU cannot find optomism nor can you tolerate it, it gets old and it becomes annoying.. and not because you have an opinion. IT IS BECAUSE YOU WILL SPEND AS MUCH TIME, OR AS MANY POSTS / THREADS AS NECESSARY TO BEAT YOUR VIEW INTO ANYONES HEAD THAT DARES TO HAVE A OPTOMISITC VIEW AT THIS POINT IN THE OFFSEASON.... I've watch you do it every year since I've joined...


I really thought you had changed and understoof d finally but obviously this flaw is in your genetic makeup and you probably can't be helped. :rain:

[DMBcrew36]

Your argument here is invalid. Players don't continue to get better with no platueas. They get to a certain point, plataue for awhile then decline. Other teams in our division have many platuead players.

And the Bills have plateaued players. It's all moot.

[OpIv37]

Its sports.
Nobody knows what is going to happen, no matter what they predict.

The University of Virginia baseball team lost two of three to Virginia Tech just prior to the end of the season.
Nobody predicted they would do anything in the ACC tournament, but they go undefeated to win it.

Then they get hosed in the NCAA tourney draw and play in the toughest regional in the country, drawing their first game against a pitcher who is viewed as the best baseball prospect to come out in ten years, (drafted number one overall last night), and beat him.
Then they beat a team that was number one in the nation for awhile, twice, to win it.
After that they go to Oxford,Miss. to play Old Miss in the super regional. As heavy underdogs, they win two of three to advance to Omaha and the College World Series, with seven of nine starters as underclassmen.

Stuff happens. Its sports.

Half of the fun is the unexpected, and getting excited about the possibilities.
It has happened before.
If I wanted predictability, I'd watch CSI reruns.

Anything CAN happen, but not all outcomes are equally likely. We're talking about a 7-9 team that didn't add any proven talent except TO- just Hangartner, Florence and bunch of rookies. Is it possible that they come out and shock people? Sure, it's possible. There are no guarantees in sports. But it sure as hell isn't likely.

If I were a Patriots fan, I'd be excited about this season. They went 11-5 in the off-season, didn't lose anyone of note, and have their star QB returning. Is it possible that they'll tank the season and miss the playoffs again. Sure, but it sure as hell isn't likely.

I have a hard time getting excited about the off-chance that we'll be a Cinderella team. I need something a little more concrete than that.

[THATHURMANATOR]

And the Bills have plateaued players. It's all moot.
No thing is we have many young players at key postitions that have not. There is a difference.

[justasportsfan]

Anything CAN happen, but not all outcomes are equally likely. .
we all know this, but why you have to insist on the rest of us feeling ****ty about the new season like you and HH is beyond us. We don 't tell you how to enjoy your beer so you should back off from telling us how we should enjoy/hate it the way you do.

[ddaryl]

Back to topic, I'm still not sure how people can get excited about a team that they are confident isn't even going to make the playoffs?

Sorry, but I don't get excited about losing.


and I just cannot get excited about being a pessimist and calling the season shot before we even hit training camp.

I prefer to believe a few things will go right and we will see a team that is at least fun to watch this year.

When they start playing real games and the truth becomes evident then I will call out what needs to be called out.. Right now why not concentrate on what can go right instead of what will go wrong

[DrGraves]

i dont want to start a new thread but i just wanted to say pat white is going to be a dominant force this year. the dolphins offense is going to be really good.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Back to topic, I'm still not sure how people can get excited about a team that they are confident isn't even going to make the playoffs?

Sorry, but I don't get excited about losing.


It's not really believing for me, it's hoping. I'm everything sets itself up right for a good season. I'm hoping that a few guys on D like Poz and Whitner take that next step as the dominant players on D. I'm hoping Schobel still has a good couple years in him and that McCargo finally plays to his ability. I'm hoping that Rookies Wood, Levitre, and Maybin are big time factors this year. And I'm hoping that other guys like Harris and Byrd can make the positional switch cause I believe they can. Sure there's a lot of hoping in there but it's all reasonable. Most importantly though, I always have hope and no one will ever take that away from me. Whether it's relating to football or life.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

i dont want to start a new thread but i just wanted to say pat white is going to be a dominant force this year. the dolphins offense is going to be really good.
<!-- / message -->

I'll see it when I believe it, he's struggled throwing the ball so far in camp. I know everyone thinks that he will help the wildcat but the problem is, it's not the wildcat when he's in there. That's not the base of the D, they will be running the spread formation. Sure, he's a better passer than Brown but is no where close to threat of a runner.

[OpIv37]

and I just cannot get excited about being a pessimist and calling the season shot before we even hit training camp.

I prefer to believe a few things will go right and we will see a team that is at least fun to watch this year.

When they start playing real games and the truth becomes evident then I will call out what needs to be called out.. Right now why not concentrate on what can go right instead of what will go wrong

I'm sure a few things will go right. But, in order for this season to go well, a good portion of the following will have to go right:

Schobel
Maybin
Stroud
Poz
Ellison or a replacement
Walker
Levitre
Hangartner
Wood
Butler
TO
Edwards
Jackson and Rhodes Filling in for Lynch
Any of our TE's
Our coaches not screwing it up.

The chances of ALL those things going right- or at least enough of them to win- are slim to none.

[OpIv37]

It's not really believing for me, it's hoping. I'm everything sets itself up right for a good season. I'm hoping that a few guys on D like Poz and Whitner take that next step as the dominant players on D. I'm hoping Schobel still has a good couple years in him and that McCargo finally plays to his ability. I'm hoping that Rookies Wood, Levitre, and Maybin are big time factors this year. And I'm hoping that other guys like Harris and Byrd can make the positional switch cause I believe they can. Sure there's a lot of hoping in there but it's all reasonable. Most importantly though, I always have hope and no one will ever take that away from me. Whether it's relating to football or life.

it's reasonable to expect SOME of it. It's not reasonable to expect ALL of it. Hell, this whole section could have been said last year at this time too:


I'm hoping that a few guys on D like Poz and Whitner take that next step as the dominant players on D. I'm hoping Schobel still has a good couple years in him and that McCargo finally plays to his ability.

and NONE of it actually happened.

As far as having hope, that's why you need to separate hope from expectations.

[HHURRICANE]

Don't try to pull us down to your level because we are confident people with winning attitudes.


I'm all for discussion on why this team isn't going to be 7-9 again. Sadly no one has an argument for that other than "it's the Bills and we are Bill's fans".

[HHURRICANE]

I'm sure a few things will go right. But, in order for this season to go well, a good portion of the following will have to go right:

Schobel
Maybin
Stroud
Poz
Ellison or a replacement
Walker
Levitre
Hangartner
Wood
Butler
TO
Edwards
Jackson and Rhodes Filling in for Lynch
Any of our TE's
Our coaches not screwing it up.

The chances of ALL those things going right- or at least enough of them to win- are slim to none.


This is why I get frustrated. Even Evans hasn't been a slam dunk on this team.

Now we introduce a new o-line, again, and we shouldn't expect pain from this?

The team is selling out which means that the FO doesn't have to put a good product on the field.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

it's reasonable to expect SOME of it. It's not reasonable to expect ALL of it. Hell, this whole section could have been said last year at this time too:


Oh, I agree but like I said I'm more hoping for it than expecting it. I just think thoughs are reasonable. Now for me to say I hope Whitner has an Ed Reed type year, Langston will be an all-pro LT, Nelson will catch 45 balls or Lynch runs for 1600 yards. Those would be silly.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

and NONE of it actually happened.

As far as having hope, that's why you need to separate hope from expectations.<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->

I always have I just think were a much better team than last year.

[OpIv37]

I always have I just think were a much better team than last year.

I think in time we COULD be a better team than last year, depending on how this year's draft class does and if some guys from the last 2 or 3 drafts step up.

I'm just worried that we're counting on too many rookies and position changes to salvage this season.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Op and HH should get a room.

[OpIv37]

Op and HH should get a room.

mature and insightful, as always.

[SABURZFAN]

Op and HH should get a room.


it's currently occupied by acehole and yordad.

[THATHURMANATOR]

mature and insightful, as always.
Yes not boring and "more of the same" as some around here.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

<TABLE class=tborder id=post2922516 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_2922516> think in time we COULD be a better team than last year, depending on how this year's draft class does and if some guys from the last 2 or 3 drafts step up.

I'm just worried that we're counting on too many rookies and position changes to salvage this season.
<!-- / message --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt2></TD><TD class=alt1 align=right><TR><!-- start bottom info post --></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I hear ya there, we are counting on a lot of rookies that's for sure but I'm not worried. Like I said though, I always have hope and I'm an eternal optimistic. I wouldn't however put Levitre and Wood in the worry category. I did a write up on another board of how well rookie interior linemen play, I will find it if you like. Maybin is only going to be asked to do the thing he's best at. So that really only makes me nervous about two rookies Byrd and Harris.

[OpIv37]

I hear ya there, we are counting on a lot of rookies that's for sure but I'm not worried. Like I said though, I always have hope and I'm an eternal optimistic. I wouldn't however put Levitre and Wood in the worry category. I did a write up on another board of how well rookie interior linemen play, I will find it if you like. Maybin is only going to be asked to do the thing he's best at. So that really only makes me nervous about two rookies Byrd and Harris.

Well, let's assume you're right about Levitre and Wood- we won't know til the season starts anyway- and focus on the D.

if Maybin is only going to be asked to do what he's good at- pass rush in obvious situations- it means that our D is virtually the same as last year on first and 2nd down. It might be slightly different if Harris or Byrd crack the starting lineup, which is a possibility because both Ellison and Simpson/Scott are weak. Is that enough? The reality of our D last year is that they played well enough to not lose games, but also collapsed at times and weren't really good enough to win games.

[Dr. Pepper]

I'm hoping to see McGee and McKelvin step up and be an above average tandem this season. It's also a HUGE season for Poz and Whitner. If neither of them steps up their games, I'm calling bust. However, if the D Line can get pressure on the QB, I don't think either of them will have trouble making an impact. Hopefully Maybin can make an impact on obvious passing downs. We'll see. I'm cautiously optimistic.

[ddaryl]

I'm sure a few things will go right. But, in order for this season to go well, a good portion of the following will have to go right:

Schobel
Maybin
Stroud
Poz
Ellison or a replacement
Walker
Levitre
Hangartner
Wood
Butler
TO
Edwards
Jackson and Rhodes Filling in for Lynch
Any of our TE's
Our coaches not screwing it up.

The chances of ALL those things going right- or at least enough of them to win- are slim to none.


rotflmao

you did it again. You had to quote me and then go on pointing out all that could go wrong and then continue to tell me that there is a small chance all of that will go right.

and yet you still don't get it.

[OpIv37]

rotflmao

you did it again. You had to quote me and then go on pointing out all that could go wrong and then continue to tell me that there is a small chance all of that will go right.

and yet you still don't get it.

there's a small chance we could go 19-0 and win the SB, but I'm not about to pre-order my SB Champs merch just yet.

There's a small chance I could win the lottery, but I'm not about to sign the purchase order for a BMW 7 series just yet.

There's a small chance I could die in a car accident driving home from work, but I'm not going to call my wife and tell her to start making funeral arrangements just yet.

There's a small chance that a lot of things can happen- so what? What's your point?

It's not reasonable to expect any of those things to happen and it's not reasonable to expect the Bills to do well, given all the obstacles they have to overcome.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Well, let's assume you're right about Levitre and Wood- we won't know til the season starts anyway- and focus on the D.

if Maybin is only going to be asked to do what he's good at- pass rush in obvious situations- it means that our D is virtually the same as last year on first and 2nd down. It might be slightly different if Harris or Byrd crack the starting lineup, which is a possibility because both Ellison and Simpson/Scott are weak. Is that enough? The reality of our D last year is that they played well enough to not lose games, but also collapsed at times and weren't really good enough to win games.

Well the man problem with that D was getting out of the obvious passing situations. The 2nd 13's and 3 and 8h's. The qb's had to much time in the pocket, if Maybin forces pressure to get the D off the field quicker isn't that improving the D.

[THATHURMANATOR]

there's a small chance we could go 19-0 and win the SB, but I'm not about to pre-order my SB Champs merch just yet.

There's a small chance I could win the lottery, but I'm not about to sign the purchase order for a BMW 7 series just yet.

There's a small chance I could die in a car accident driving home from work, but I'm not going to call my wife and tell her to start making funeral arrangements just yet.

There's a small chance that a lot of things can happen- so what? What's your point?

It's not reasonable to expect any of those things to happen and it's not reasonable to expect the Bills to do well, given all the obstacles they have to overcome.
Winners don't think like this.

[OpIv37]

Winners don't think like this.

that's right- winners buy cars they can't afford and plan their funeral when they're still young and healthy :rolleyes:

Mature and insightful, as usual.

[THATHURMANATOR]

that's right- winners buy cars they can't afford and plan their funeral when they're still young and healthy :rolleyes:

Mature and insightful, as usual.
Just trying to help you turn things around man. Must suck to have no hope....

[OpIv37]

Just trying to help you turn things around man. Must suck to have no hope....

must suck to have baseless hope and set yourself up for disappointment time and time again.

[THATHURMANATOR]

must suck to have baseless hope and set yourself up for disappointment time and time again.
No it's actually pretty awesome. The disappointment sucks for a short period but winners like myself don't dwell on it, we move past it very quickly and on to the next hopeful situation.

[FlyingDutchman]

if all of us are disappointed in the end, what does it matter if you have hope or are miserable. If the end result is going to be the same anyways, why not be a fan, have fun, and not be a miserable ***** all of the time. Having hope is a lot funner than being a miserable grouch who nobody wants to be around. id at least like to have fun before im let down

[THATHURMANATOR]

if all of us are disappointed in the end, what does it matter if you have hope or are miserable. If the end result is going to be the same anyways, why not be a fan, have fun, and not be a miserable ***** all of the time. Having hope is a lot funner than being a miserable grouch who nobody wants to be around
That is a winning attitude my friend!!! :hi5:

Great isn't it?

[OpIv37]

if all of us are disappointed in the end, what does it matter if you have hope or are miserable. If the end result is going to be the same anyways, why not be a fan, have fun, and not be a miserable ***** all of the time. Having hope is a lot funner than being a miserable grouch who nobody wants to be around. id at least like to have fun before im let down

Think about it like this: Which loss sucks more? Losing to NE when we expect them to kick our ass, or losing to Pittsburgh's back ups at home?

I don't understand this "we want the team to win- they didn't win- oh well I'm over it" mentality. If you blow off a loss so easily, did you really want them to win in the first place?

[FlyingDutchman]

cool man, all in the past. holy hell all you do is dwell on things and situations. so glad your thoughts and brain arent in my head

[FlyingDutchman]

are we going to bring up super bowl 25 next? i mean seriously...

[OpIv37]

if all of us are disappointed in the end, what does it matter if you have hope or are miserable. If the end result is going to be the same anyways, why not be a fan, have fun, and not be a miserable ***** all of the time. Having hope is a lot funner than being a miserable grouch who nobody wants to be around. id at least like to have fun before im let down

also I'm a little sick of your extrapolating my mentality about a team that's done nothing but disappoint for a decade into life in general. There are a lot of things in life that I'm happy about, but this board isn't about them. It's about a football team that's done nothing but frustrate me for 10 years. I really don't know how NOT to be a "miserable grouch" about something that's been so disappointing to me. I look forward to the season every year, and spend tons of money to go to a game or two and get Sunday Ticket, only to be disappointed as a result. I don't have the ability to just go "oh well" like you guys apparently do.

[FlyingDutchman]

dude op wtf difference does our mentality make on this team? absolutely zero. sorry i dont choose to be a miserable *****, just the way i am

[OpIv37]

cool man, all in the past. holy hell all you do is dwell on things and situations. so glad your thoughts and brain arent in my head

In case you didn't realize, a lot of those past mistakes are STILL with us and will STILL be affecting us this season. Go ahead and say it's in the past, but it's not. It's the present too, and quite possibly the foreseeable future as well.

[OpIv37]

dude op wtf difference does our mentality make on this team? absolutely zero. sorry i dont choose to be a miserable *****, just the way i am

if our mentality makes no difference to the team, why do you care so much about my attitude?

[FlyingDutchman]

also I'm a little sick of your extrapolating my mentality about a team that's done nothing but disappoint for a decade into life in general. There are a lot of things in life that I'm happy about, but this board isn't about them. It's about a football team that's done nothing but frustrate me for 10 years. I really don't know how NOT to be a "miserable grouch" about something that's been so disappointing to me. I look forward to the season every year, and spend tons of money to go to a game or two and get Sunday Ticket, only to be disappointed as a result. I don't have the ability to just go "oh well" like you guys apparently do.

great, then go be a fan of a different team, and stop this little mission of yours to get all of the lemings to jump off the cliff with you. youre not going to changes peoples minds and mentalities on here, maybe you should change yours or get a new team. its getting sad and depressing listening to you

[THATHURMANATOR]

cool man, all in the past. holy hell all you do is dwell on things and situations. so glad your thoughts and brain arent in my head
:bf1:

[THATHURMANATOR]

dude op wtf difference does our mentality make on this team? absolutely zero. sorry i dont choose to be a miserable *****, just the way i am
Me too!

[FlyingDutchman]

if our mentality makes no difference to the team, why do you care so much about my attitude?

WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT ALL OF OURS! seriously, youve been on some mission the last 3 damn years to change peoples opinions, and in your words "to wake people up" ...guess what? nobody gives a rats ass what you have to say, and nobody is changing.

[THATHURMANATOR]

if our mentality makes no difference to the team, why do you care so much about my attitude?
You force us to care or respond by constantly Hammering us with your losing mentality

[OpIv37]

great, then go be a fan of a different team, and stop this little mission of yours to get all of the lemings to jump off the cliff with you. youre not going to changes peoples minds and mentalities on here, maybe you should change yours or get a new team. its getting sad and depressing listening to you

wow, you really are that dense. I don't want to see any team win- I want to see the BILLS win. If I did, I wouldn't be so pissed and frustrated with this team.

[OpIv37]

You force us to care or respond by constantly Hammering us with reality

fixed it for you.

[THATHURMANATOR]

WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT ALL OF OURS! seriously, youve been on some mission the last 3 damn years to change peoples opinions, and in your words "to wake people up" ...guess what? nobody gives a rats ass what you have to say
Nail meet head!

<img src=http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2634771/2/istockphoto_2634771_hitting_a_nail_on_the_head.jpg>

[FlyingDutchman]

the mentality that people like thurm and i have, is the type of mentality that makes us bills fans some of the best in the nfl. we get kicked in the teeth, and get up and ask for more

[FlyingDutchman]

wow, you really are that dense. I don't want to see any team win- I want to see the BILLS win. If I did, I wouldn't be so pissed and frustrated with this team.

na buddy we went over this. youre the dense sad one. you must be fun to have a beer with

[OpIv37]

WHY DO YOU CARE ABOUT ALL OF OURS! seriously, youve been on some mission the last 3 damn years to change peoples opinions, and in your words "to wake people up" ...guess what? nobody gives a rats ass what you have to say, and nobody is changing.

Opinions are different than attitudes. I could care less about people's attitudes (unlike you).

This board is about discussing OPINIONS. Some people on this board have opinions with which I disagree, for very valid reasons. So I state my reasons. That's called discussing the team, which is the fundamental purpose of the message board. I strongly believe in the rationale behind my opinions, so I defend them strongly. If that bothers you, too damn bad.

Nobody gives a rat's ass what I have to say? Does that include you? You sure engage me in a lot of long discussions for someone who doesn't care what I have to say.

[OpIv37]

na buddy we went over this. youre the dense sad one. you must be fun to have a beer with

once again, extrapolating football to life....

[Philagape]

I've never seen one poster give more of a rat's ass about what another poster has to say than Dutchman gives about Op.
There have been obsessions here before, but the level of unhinged passion this time is unparalleled.

[FlyingDutchman]

are you kidding? OP is obsessed with anyone with a positive attitude on this board. just so happens i speak out against his sad crap. everyone else just slams their head on their keyboard and doesnt waste their time. he comes back and tries to provoke me just as much

[FlyingDutchman]

i just dont get wh OP just doesnt give up on this team. seems like he already has. its the easy thing to do. weak people always just give up

[OpIv37]

i just dont get wh OP just doesnt give up on this team. seems like he already has. its the easy thing to do. weak people always just give up

And I haven't given up.

Ever take a logic class? There's an inference that can be made there....

[FlyingDutchman]

And I haven't given up.


yes you have. youre just still here to constantly ***** about how youve given up in round about ways

[FlyingDutchman]

must suck to have baseless hope and set yourself up for disappointment time and time again.

sound like someone who hasnt given up?

[FlyingDutchman]

thanks for playin. good day

[Philagape]

i just dont get wh OP just doesnt give up on this team. seems like he already has. its the easy thing to do. weak people always just give up

Then we should respect those who stick around.
It's easy to check your brain at the door and just root root root for the home team; it's hard to love a team and objectively discuss its failures and weaknesses.
People who say fans should give up are just like those who tell critics of the government to leave the U.S. Just like loving your country doesn't mean you have to love the government, then loving the team doesn't mean you have to love its management or players. Love for a team isn't something you can just turn off. Love for a team means wanting the best for it, and passionate criticism comes from passionate desire to win.
A team that's had three losing seasons in a row under the current administration has not earned the benefit of the doubt, and any skepticism about it is understandable. The critics usually give substantial reasons for their criticism, and if you have a problem with it, then argue on the merits. There's nothing more irritating than whining about negativity. The negativity will go down when the team wins.
It's perfectly fine to be a cheerleader going on nothing else than loyalty and emotion, but don't try to engage in analytical conversation with that (or vice-versa). They are two entirely different levels of communication that aren't compatible.

[THATHURMANATOR]

are you kidding? OP is obsessed with anyone with a positive attitude on this board. just so happens i speak out against his sad crap. everyone else just slams their head on their keyboard and doesnt waste their time. he comes back and tries to provoke me just as much
Yeah I tend to agree with FD here.

[OpIv37]

yes you have. youre just still here to constantly ***** about how youve given up in round about ways

giving up would be not being here. Giving up would be not watching every second of every game. This argument that I've somehow given up is absurd.

[OpIv37]

Then we should respect those who stick around.
It's easy to check your brain at the door and just root root root for the home team; it's hard to love a team and objectively discuss its failures and weaknesses.
People who say fans should give up are just like those who tell critics of the government to leave the U.S. Just like loving your country doesn't mean you have to love the government, then loving the team doesn't mean you have to love its management or players. Love for a team isn't something you can just turn off. Love for a team means wanting the best for it, and passionate criticism comes from passionate desire to win.
A team that's had three losing seasons in a row under the current administration has not earned the benefit of the doubt, and any skepticism about it is understandable. The critics usually give substantial reasons for their criticism, and if you have a problem with it, then argue on the merits. There's nothing more irritating than whining about negativity. The negativity will go down when the team wins.
It's perfectly fine to be a cheerleader going on nothing else than loyalty and emotion, but don't try to engage in analytical conversation with that (or vice-versa). They are two entirely different levels of communication that aren't compatible.

:bf1:

Best post I've read on here in a while. This should be the new disclaimer on the front page.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Then we should respect those who stick around.
It's easy to check your brain at the door and just root root root for the home team; it's hard to love a team and objectively discuss its failures and weaknesses.
People who say fans should give up are just like those who tell critics of the government to leave the U.S. Just like loving your country doesn't mean you have to love the government, then loving the team doesn't mean you have to love its management or players. Love for a team isn't something you can just turn off. Love for a team means wanting the best for it, and passionate criticism comes from passionate desire to win.
A team that's had three losing seasons in a row under the current administration has not earned the benefit of the doubt, and any skepticism about it is understandable. The critics usually give substantial reasons for their criticism, and if you have a problem with it, then argue on the merits. There's nothing more irritating than whining about negativity. The negativity will go down when the team wins.
It's perfectly fine to be a cheerleader going on nothing else than loyalty and emotion, but don't try to engage in analytical conversation with that (or vice-versa). They are two entirely different levels of communication that aren't compatible.
Whatever. This isn't the point. Op and HH will find fault or doom in ANY situation. They live for it. Which in itself is fine with me except for the fact that they preach endlessly about it and we are all wrong for having differing opinions.

It sickens me.

There are people like this in all circles. They drain the fun out of everything and are complete downers.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

must suck to have baseless hope and set yourself up for disappointment time and time again.

No man it's great. I'm actually baffled by how people don't think this way. It would absolutely kill me to go into a season thinking we suck. Is it the truth maybe, but I will always think this way. This is my attitude with everything and if something makes me miserable I will not chose to engage with that activity.

[OpIv37]

Whatever. This isn't the point. Op and HH will find fault or doom in ANY situation. They live for it. Which in itself is fine with me except for the fact that they preach endlessly about it and we are all wrong for having differing opinions.

It sickens me.

There are people like this in all circles. They drain the fun out of everything and are complete downers.

Go back and check the track record. I got torn apart when I was critical of the team at 5-1 last year. Guess what happened? You can call it "doom and gloom" all you want, but it's reality.

[OpIv37]

No man it's great. I'm actually baffled by how people don't think this way. It would absolutely kill me to go into a season thinking we suck. Is it the truth maybe, but I will always think this way. This is my attitude with everything and if something makes me miserable I will not chose to engage with that activity.

well, I don't need to pretend the team is better than it is to continue being a fan. I'm a fan through good and bad. If it's bad, I'll acknowledge it. I won't like it, but I'm not going to pretend that it isn't true.

[Philagape]

Whatever. This isn't the point. Op and HH will find fault or doom in ANY situation. They live for it. Which in itself is fine with me except for the fact that they preach endlessly about it and we are all wrong for having differing opinions.

It sickens me.

There are people like this in all circles. They drain the fun out of everything and are complete downers.

Why is talking negatively about the team more unacceptable than the team itself being negative?
Why do you subject yourself to such sickening posts? The title and starter of this thread made it obvious what would be in it.
What kind of weak mentality does it take to be so bothered by what people say on a message board? Just throw out one of your "Who cares?" and let it go.

BTW, nice job on getting more than 10 words into your post. :up:

[Romes]

It amazes me how HH can consistently get 10 page threads.

[SABURZFAN]

It amazes me how HH can consistently get 10 page threads.


he's underrated around here.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why is talking negatively about the team more unacceptable than the team itself being negative?
Why do you subject yourself to such sickening posts? The title and starter of this thread made it obvious what would be in it.
What kind of weak mentality does it take to be so bothered by what people say on a message board? Just throw out one of your "Who cares?" and let it go.

BTW, nice job on getting more than 10 words into your post. :up:
I subject myself to these disgusting posts to try and save others from being subjected. I am somewhat of a Martyr.

I will never throw out a "who cares" when it comes to the Buffalo Bills. I love the team with all my heart.

Not sure where you are going with the 10 word thing. I do know I am not a blohard like some who think if they write a novel it validates anything. I get to the point and get out..

[THATHURMANATOR]

he's underrated around here.
He really is.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Go back and check the track record. I got torn apart when I was critical of the team at 5-1 last year. Guess what happened? You can call it "doom and gloom" all you want, but it's reality.
IMO Edwards injury in the Cardinals game is what completely changed everything. He was a different player after that hit. If that hit didn't happen we would have made the playoffs. I am still worried he will never be the same. If so we are screwed.

Back to your "critical" comments. WHO CARES!

[WeAreArthurMoates]

well, I don't need to pretend the team is better than it is to continue being a fan. I'm a fan through good and bad. If it's bad, I'll acknowledge it. I won't like it, but I'm not going to pretend that it isn't true.

I'm not questioning your fan hood, it is evident that you care about this team. Didn't mean the post to come off like that. That is how I just feel I always have a positive outlook and to imply that I'm niave is just as bad as saying your not a fan.

Sure bye week 12 last year, I thought this team was bad, I didn't sugar coat them to anyone. I knew they weren't good.But it's a new season, I loved what they did in free agency and the draft, so why the hell wouldn't I be jacked about the team. Now people will come here and say they didn't ****, well guess what. Like me, you have no idea how these guys will play until the season starts.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

IMO Edwards injury in the Cardinals game is what completely changed everything. He was a different player after that hit. If that hit didn't happen we would have made the playoffs. I am still worried he will never be the same. If so we are screwed.

I agree, I heard Hodge I believe say it takes a year for players to come back mentally from that kind of hit, especially for qb's.

[justasportsfan]

OP's the one keeping the thread going.

[THATHURMANATOR]

OP's the one keeping the thread going.
He always is.....

[OpIv37]

IMO Edwards injury in the Cardinals game is what completely changed everything. He was a different player after that hit. If that hit didn't happen we would have made the playoffs. I am still worried he will never be the same. If so we are screwed.

Back to your "critical" comments. WHO CARES!

you accuse me of being doom and gloom, but a lot of what I say ends up being correct. It's not "doom and gloom" if it's the truth. It's reality. This board is about discussing the team, and you and FD are essentially on my ass about discussing the reality of the team. You're shooting the messenger.

[justasportsfan]

He always is.....


OP should get the credit for the no. of pages this thread generated. Not HH. Only credit HH gets is that he's whining about how no one wants to follow him to the PAts board.

[HHURRICANE]

Whatever. This isn't the point. Op and HH will find fault or doom in ANY situation. They live for it. Which in itself is fine with me except for the fact that they preach endlessly about it and we are all wrong for having differing opinions.

It sickens me.

There are people like this in all circles. They drain the fun out of everything and are complete downers.

"Whatever"? Philagape made a great point and that's the retort.

The fun is getting taken out of this team by it's owner, not me. Here's the list:

1) Ralph goes to the media and tells everyone a few years back that the area can't support the team. It's factually incorrect, he won't raise ticket prices, won't sell the naming right, and hasn't done a thing to build a new stadium. However, we keep selling out the games.

2) Moves a home game to Toronto. Propably discussing another one as we speak.

3) Doesn't hire a GM.

4) Tries to save money by extending Jauron early, Jauron screws up, and he won't eat the contract. I don't think Jauron is the problem but he should have been fired just on principle but it's all about the money.

5) Doesn't resign our best player and they still haven't released the offer which everyone here knows is less than what Philly gave him.

6) Won't engage a new buyer even though he knows the team would probably get moved when he dies.


Yeah it's OP and HH's fault for being negative even though we are just stating facts.

[Philagape]

I subject myself to these disgusting posts to try and save others from being subjected. I am somewhat of a Martyr.

How's that working out?

[THATHURMANATOR]

How's that working out?
Not well..... :ill:

[madness]

I subject myself to these disgusting posts to try and save others from being subjected. I am somewhat of a Martyr.

Don't let them kill you, Thurm!.... unless....maybe you could take them with you?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Don't let them kill you, Thurm!.... unless....maybe you could take them with you?
Thurm Christ.......

[Dr. Lecter]

"Whatever"? Philagape made a great point and that's the retort.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The fun is getting taken out of this team by it's owner, not me. Here's the list:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
1) Ralph goes to the media and tells everyone a few years back that the area can't support the team. It's factually incorrect, he won't raise ticket prices, won't sell the naming right, and hasn't done a thing to build a new stadium. However, we keep selling out the games.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Actually, he is probably not far off on that assessment. This area is probably too small and poor to properly support an NFL team. There is not enough of a corporate base that a NFL teams needs in the current environment. Raising ticket prices, as stated before, is not a big benefit either. Between the likely loss of sales and the fact that revenue is split 60/40, the Bills would see little if any financial benefit.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Selling naming rights sounds great on paper. Unfortunately, this also goes back to the poor corporate state of the area. It is not uncommon for small markets (<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Buffalo</st1:place></st1:City>, Cleveland Jacksonville, etc.) to not have naming rights sold.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
And what good does a new stadium do for the team? It actually is probably more of a harm than a benefit, due to the debt load that the team would take on after the construction of the new stadium. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
If the area is so fit to support a team, getting an expansion team or another team to move her should be easy, correct? But it would NEVER happen. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

2) Moves a home game to <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Toronto</st1:place></st1:City>. Propably discussing another one as we speak.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
While I don’t like the games in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Toronto</st1:place></st1:City>, I do understand the realities of why they are occurring. See above and the corporate money. Teams need the box suites and advertising generated by big companies and Buffalo/WNY does not have the resources. The flow of unshared revenue is damaging and limits cash flow. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

3) Doesn't hire a GM.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I can’t disagree on this. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

4) Tries to save money by extending Jauron early, Jauron screws up, and he won't eat the contract. I don't think Jauron is the problem but he should have been fired just on principle but it's all about the money.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
You want them to extend Peters early and ***** when they extend Jauron early. I wish he had gone too. I think money was part of it, but also think that the idea of having a new coach every three years for the last ten years is a major part as well. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

5) Doesn't resign our best player and they still haven't released the offer which everyone here knows is less than what Philly gave him.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
No, everybody does not know that. You sure as hell do not. If it was larger than Evans, it was not smaller, at least not much smaller. It seems as if when you talk about Peters, you leave out him showing up to the Bills totally out of shape and unprepared. Or that he would not communicate with them. Or that his performance the first half of last season was well below his standards. I do wish he was still here. He was the Bills most talented player (not always the best). In the end though, the whole thing was as much his fault as it was the Bills. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

6) Won't engage a new buyer even though he knows the team would probably get moved when he dies.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Yeah it's OP and HH's fault for being negative even though we are just stating facts.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I wish he would look for an future owner too, but that might not be easy as one thinks. And he can still leave it to Mary as her stance has reportedly softened on that.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Op is great at stating facts. You have taken some facts here and distorted them (like the part about WNY being able to support an NFL team or that we all know that Peters was offered less here than by the Eagles.). You are also the one who stated you are no longer a fan. Once you say that, fair or not, you will get grief for it. For all of his griping and *****ing, he has never said anything remotely close to that. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

[justasportsfan]

You have taken some facts here and distorted them (like the part about WNY being able to support an NFL team or that we all know that Peters was offered less here than by the Eagles.). You are also the one who stated you are no longer a fan. Once you say that, fair or not, you will get grief for it. For all of his griping and *****ing, he has never said anything remotely close to that.
HH thinks he knows the economics of keeping a football team in a small market area. He doesn't, although he thinks he does . All he's doing is *****ing away.

NE has the highest prices in the league and they sell out. He should follow through , become a patriots fan and leave us bills fans alone.

[SABURZFAN]

OP's the one keeping the thread going.


Op is underrated too.