Can Trent hang the long ball

[lmcshadow]

Hey this is a fare question that im asking....I think Trent will become a good QB when he comes into his own...But looking at the stats he only had 5 balls over 40 yards...and 35 over 20....Well we could say that he didnt have the supporting staff that he needs...or just bad coaching...well this year with T.O. and Evans and a host of others, will trent hang that long ball more often????

[yordad]

I am not convinced he has the gun for it. Especially in the cold.

[FlyingDutchman]

ha the title of this thread made me smile. yeah im 12, so what. I kinda blame the supporting cast and the fact that hes young. The Bills in general have sucked to get legit receiving threats besides Evans for years. Last year we had nobody beside Evans. Lynch struggled to get over 100 yards, and the interior line absolutely blew. He had to take a very cerebral appraoch and just take little plays that are given to him. We should find out this year with Owens. Maybe now that he has a year of confidence and with Owens in the mix, he'll take more shots downfield.

[Buffalogic]

Just because he can't throw a 'JP' type long ball doesn't mean he can't throw one at all. There's a lot of perfect in stride long passes to Evans this season. TD at the end of the rams game comes to mind. But the best pass play highlight of the year has to go to JP-Evans in the Arizona game. I was in the 5th row for that and that throw was incredible. Too bad JP had no brain because he definitely had the arm.

[lmcshadow]

ha the title of this thread made me smile. yeah im 12, so what. I kinda blame the supporting cast and the fact that hes young. The Bills in general have sucked to get legit receiving threats besides Evans for years. Last year we had nobody beside Evans. Lynch struggled to get over 100 yards, and the interior line absolutely blew. He had to take a very cerebral appraoch and just take little plays that are given to him. We should find out this year Owens. Maybe now that he has a year of confidence and with Owens in the mix, he'll take more shots downfield.
Yeah what he said..

[lmcshadow]

Just because he can't throw a 'JP' type long ball doesn't mean he can't throw one at all. There's a lot of perfect in stride long passes to Evans this season. TD at the end of the rams game comes to mind. But the best pass play highlight of the year has to go to JP-Evans in the Arizona game. I was in the 5th row for that and that throw was incredible. Too bad JP had no brain because he definitely had the arm.
:bf1:

[Oldbillsfan]

Its gonna be a lot easier for him now, just chuck it as hard as you can to the big man and he will get it.

[Philagape]

The question is not can he. We know he can. It's will he.

[Throne Logic]

The problem was with the inconsistent pass blocking. It get's harder and harder to hold onto that ball long enough to let WR's get down field when you frequently find the defense in your face.

He's going to have to trust the offensive line enough to allow time for those long ball options to develop. Last year, without that faith, we saw a bunch of dump-offs.

And don't forget, for every long ball JP got off cleanly, he was sacked 3 other times waiting too long for that option. Something to be said for using the dump-off option on occasion.

Trick is, we need to keep the dump-off more in the frequency of "on-occasion". Refer to first paragraph. . .

[OpIv37]

ha the title of this thread made me smile. yeah im 12, so what. I kinda blame the supporting cast and the fact that hes young. The Bills in general have sucked to get legit receiving threats besides Evans for years. Last year we had nobody beside Evans. Lynch struggled to get over 100 yards, and the interior line absolutely blew. He had to take a very cerebral appraoch and just take little plays that are given to him. We should find out this year with Owens. Maybe now that he has a year of confidence and with Owens in the mix, he'll take more shots downfield.

for once I actually agree with you.

Just because Trent hasn't thrown the long ball doesn't mean he can't. The coaches had the training wheels on him, and they were terrible at play-calling anyway. With TO and Lee, SOMEONE will be open deep and Trent will be able to show if he has it or not.

[yordad]

The question is not can he. We know he can. It's will he. I seen Lee open all day (or all night), and I seen a QB who didn't throw it. So, "we" don't "know" jack when it comes to TE's arm strength, no matter how you spin it. You can go ahead and assume, I would rather see it.

[Philagape]

I seen Lee open all day (or all night), and I seen a QB who didn't throw it. So, "we" don't "know" jack when it comes to TE's arm strength, no matter how you spin it.

The first part of your statement has nothing to do with the other, so the only spin here is yours.
He has thrown it long, and connected in stride multiple times. (As with any other pass, timing and accuracy are more important than strength, not that that's a liability, because it isn't.) Therefore whether he can do it has been indisputably answered. "Can" is not an issue.

[yordad]

The first part of your statement has nothing to do with the other, so the only spin here is yours.
He has thrown it long, and connected in stride multiple times. (As with any other pass, timing and accuracy are more important than strength, not that that's a liability, because it isn't.) Therefore whether he can do it has been indisputably answered. "Can" is not an issue.Well ok then. Some are easier convinced then others. I guess one must first define "long". Then one must show when he threw it "long". Then one must show where he threw it "long" under adversity. Cuz "we" all "know" Buffalo doesn't usually have ideal circumstances.

I mean seriously, what are you gonna show for proof? A long ball in Cali? Or was it Florida? Oh, wait, September? Oh, I got ya, it was a catch and run that totaled 42?

Go ahead and be convinced. We ain't swaying one another. I have a simple fact for you that you cannot change. I am not convinced. I seen every game, with my own eyes. Only he can convince me. I am wanting.

Moving on now, cuz I don't like conversations in riddle with walls.

[yordad]

Either way, "will he?" is a legit enough question for me. Even better, "will he do it consistently?" Because "we all know" he hasn't as yet. So, whatev. I am wanting.

[Mr. Pink]

I seem to remember Trent throwing a perfectly threaded deep ball to Josh Reed with defenders around him to help set up the winning field goal against Washington.

On December 2, 2007.

Unless you don't count a 30 yard pass as a deep ball.

If you do, that dispels the he can't throw it deep and can't throw it deep in poor weather conditions myth.

[Philagape]

Well ok then. Some are easier convinced then others. I guess one must first define "long". Then one must show when he threw it "long". Then one must show where he threw it "long" under adversity. Cuz "we" all "know" Buffalo doesn't usually have ideal circumstances.

I mean seriously, what are you gonna show for proof? A long ball in Cali? Or was it Florida? Oh, wait, September? Oh, I got ya, it was a catch and run that totaled 42?

Go ahead and be convinced. We ain't swaying one another. I have a simple fact for you that you cannot change. I am not convinced. I seen every game, with my own eyes. Only he can convince me. I am wanting.

Moving on now, cuz I don't like conversations in riddle with walls.

Seeing as how you inexplicably support a utter QB disaster who had a worse long ball than Trent and turned into jello under "adversity," why on earth would I or anyone else care what convinces you and what your eyes see? Your QB-watching eyes have proven to be freakishly defective.
I somewhat arbitrarily define long ball as the ball in the air more than 30 yards. Trent's completed seven of those out of 17 attempts, at least three of which were in November or December (Miami 07, Washington 07, KC 08), at least one of which set up a last-second win.
This isn't about convincing anyone, least of all you. This is a matter of fact, not opinion.

[jamze132]

I think if you want to know if Trent can throw the ball deep, you need to ask his O-line. If he only has 2 sec. to throw the ball, no it won't be going deep.

[The Popcorn]

Hey this is a fare question that im asking....I think Trent will become a good QB when he comes into his own...But looking at the stats he only had 5 balls over 40 yards...and 35 over 20....Well we could say that he didnt have the supporting staff that he needs...or just bad coaching...well this year with T.O. and Evans and a host of others, will trent hang that long ball more often????


Just get the ball in Terrell Owens' hands and he'll take care of the rest.

[mybills]

The question is not can he. We know he can. It's will he.
That's exactly how I read the question, and my answer is this.

The only reason he didn't throw long more often is because of the leash they had on him. They did the same thing (since someone mentioned him already) to JP. Eventually they do loosen the choke collar, so yeah, I do think they will let him throw the long ball more often now that he has some experience dumping off in the pocket. The fact that he has 2 good receivers now is a plus on top of all that.

[Night Train]

That '07 home game in Dec vs. Miami, he hit Evans on a 70 yarder in stride, so he can do it.

The winds in the Ralph dictate the playcalling. Kelly never had a rocket arm at all and threw more short to intermediate passes as the season progressed.

I guess when you score more often and win games, the over analyzing of the QB's arm doesn't matter. Did Montana throw bombs in windy San Fran during his career ? Like hardly ever. He didn't have the big arm but the team still found the end zone.

Brains & proper playcalling are the key.

[Bills Juggernaut]

That's exactly how I read the question, and my answer is this.

The only reason he didn't throw long more often is because of the leash they had on him. They did the same thing (since someone mentioned him already) to JP. Eventually they do loosen the choke collar, so yeah, I do think they will let him throw the long ball more often now that he has some experience dumping off in the pocket. The fact that he has 2 good receivers now is a plus on top of all that.

First off, I'm a big Trent fan, but I don't know if having him on a leash was the biggest problem. I think Trent likes to play it close to the vest. I think he is more nervous about making a mistake, than he is about hitting the home run.

I remember a couple of comments from the coaching staff that they had to set up a long ball the entire game to have a shot at it later. I think Trent only looks for the long ball when it is a perfect set up and the play is designed for it. He dosen't have that "****, I know the slant is open here but I'm going to take a shot deep" mentality.

I just don't think right now that he has the gun-slinger mentality, which is not necessarily a bad thing. When you don't have the talent at WR and TE, not having a gun-slinger mentality is probably a good thing as having it will get you into trouble more often than not.

But now that we have the talent there with TO across from Lee, and a TE who is built like a WR (albeit a rookie), will he develop into the gun-slinger that we all are hoping for?

I don't know. I like him, but I don't know if he has it in him.

[mybills]

Not saying it was his biggest problem, just saying that's what they did to him. They do that to all QB's at first.

[madness]

I don't doubt his long ball but I feel his best ball is the intermediate one. Trent's best balls are in the 15-30 yard range. He combines strength, touch and accuracy better than most on these types of plays and that's why I feel he'll flourish with T.O. on the scene.

T.O. impacts more than just the passing game too. No more doubling Lee and putting an extra safety in the box which means Marshawn & Co. will see the widest running lanes they've seen yet.

If I were the coaches, right now I'd have the OL lodging together at the local summer camp.

[trapezeus]

after the JP experiment and watching the bills either succeed with thelong ball or go 3 and out, i tend to prefer the methodic drives that consistantly move the ball down the field. and i like a balanced attack.

even in the bledsoe years, this team had a tough time moving the ball and then would score on a big play here and there. i feel like under Trent's 2 years, we've seen more drives occur, which means that we are more likely to do that again and again because we are keeping teams honest to the full range of what we can do.

i love a long toss, but i'd prefer to see offensive consistency. And i think that's what trent brings to the table. he might not launch it as far as JP, but he also has a lot more going for him that just one singular talent.

[mybills]

The question is if we're going to see it more than last year. With TO & Evan plus experience in his comfort zone, I think so.

[Philagape]

Yeah it's not like this is an integral part of any offense. A true bomb is practically a trick play, in terms of how often it's used.
In each of the last two seasons, Peyton Manning has tried only two passes that were more than 40 yards, and has completed none of them. (Trent is 2 for 5) Any Colts fans complaining about that?

[madness]

Yeah it's not like this is an integral part of any offense. A true bomb is practically a trick play, in terms of how often it's used.
In each of the last two seasons, Peyton Manning has tried only two passes that were more than 40 yards, and has completed none of them. (Trent is 2 for 5) Any Colts fans complaining about that?

Funny that you mentioned Payton. Early in his career he took what the defense gave him, checking down to his RBs/TEs early and often. The same knock some people have had on Trent.

It would be nice if Trent could become half as productive as Peyton though.

[kid mickey]

I really hope Trent does succeed. Right now I would say based on talent he would be the best back-up QB in the entire league. He reminds me so much of Kelly Holcomb. I'm not saying he's not better than J.P., but he needs to start taking more chances.

[mybills]

put it this way..
11 TD's and 10 Int's is not the way to play the game as a starting QB.

[cookie G]

The question is not can he. We know he can. It's will he.

Its not merely the deep ball, its the intermediate ball, especially when things aren't going to good.

Look back at the 2nd half of the season and see how many balls he actually throws 10 yards past the LOS on a given game. (I'm counting where the ball is thrown to, not the eventual yardage on the play)

for instance...

Against SF, 18 out of 21 passes were thrown less than 10 yards past the LOS. Of the passes over 10 yards, 1 was a throw away and one was a pseudo hail mary that he threw to the 25..from the 50.

Against Cleveland, 22 of 26 passes were less than 10 yards, 2 of the passes of more than 10 yards were intercepted

In NE I, 18-22 passes were less than 10 yards. 2 passes of more than 10 yards were INTS.

In MIA I, 28 of 35 passes were less than 10 yards, I think he completed one pass thrown farther than 10 yards.

needless to say, the O didn't see the endzone much in those situations.

The short throwing is all well and good, but you had better hit on a high percentage of those passes.

On 2nd and less than 6, and 3rd and less than 6, when coverage is a little tighter,
his completion rate isn't much higher than 50%, and his passer rating stinks. A short game passer like Pennington is still up around 66-70% completions, with a much higher YPA in those situations.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=10536


Taking what the D will give you is fine, provide you can actually take it, and that you can take it all the way down the field.

[justasportsfan]

Can Trent throw a long ball? Hell yes.

Can he do it consistently ? :idunno:

Does he tend to lose confidence in throwing the long ball? yup

Can he gain the confidence to throw deep consistently? :idunno: If he doesn't both TO and Lee will make sure he does.

Trent doesn't like taking a lot of chances unless he's sure there's someone open which is why he goes with the high percentage short passes. Even with a new OL he has to take chances now if the OL gives him time with both Lee and TO . Otherwise, someones going to throw him under the Bus.

[Philagape]

He needs to open up more, no one is disputing that. Especially when he has a relatively high percentage when he does.
He had trouble with 3-4 defenses and played scared after his injury, so improvement is needed. He had a horrendous three-game stretch.
The tendency to throw short was evident in both QBs, so the problem was more than the QB. This offense has lacked a second legit receiving threat for years, so hopefully that's been remedied.

[yordad]

Seeing as how you inexplicably support a utter QB disaster who had a worse long ball than Trent and turned into jello under "adversity," why on earth would I or anyone else care what convinces you and what your eyes see? Your QB-watching eyes have proven to be freakishly defective.
I somewhat arbitrarily define long ball as the ball in the air more than 30 yards. Trent's completed seven of those out of 17 attempts, at least three of which were in November or December (Miami 07, Washington 07, KC 08), at least one of which set up a last-second win.
This isn't about convincing anyone, least of all you. This is a matter of fact, not opinion.Well I am glad you went out of your way to not convince me.

BTW, how did you get that I don't "support" Trent Edwards?

[Philagape]

Well I am glad you went out of your way to not convince me.

BTW, how did you get that I don't "support" Trent Edwards?

I didn't say that at all nor imply it

[yordad]

I didn't say that at all nor imply it"Seeing as how you inexplicably support a utter QB disaster who had a worse long ball than Trent"

Are you having trouble understanding or interpreting your own post? Or just the meaning of the word "imply"?

[Philagape]

"Seeing as how you inexplicably support a utter QB disaster who had a worse long ball than Trent"

Are you having trouble understanding or interpreting your own post? Or just the meaning of the word "imply"?

Neither, though obviously you are. (shocker!)
In addition to QB evaluation, you really need to bone up on sentence structure and context. It's not a parallel statement, and its context was clear in the part of the paragraph you left out. You incorrectly inferred.
Also, you seem to fuzzy on the words "moving on now."

[yordad]

Neither, though obviously you are. (shocker!)
In addition to QB evaluation, you really need to bone up on sentence structure and context. It's not a parallel statement, and its context was clear in the part of the paragraph you left out. You incorrectly inferred.
Also, you seem to fuzzy on the words "moving on now."Once one moves on, can one not move back a day later to see what other's replies were? Once one sees those other replies, can not one read something so utter ridiculous that he is compelled to reply even if he had at one time moved on?

Seriously, I moved on and came back. A little different then clearly implying something, and then denying you even made the post. The post that is still clearly visible.

I mean seriously? Furthermore...

and turned into jello under "adversity," why on earth would I or anyone else care what convinces you and what your eyes see? Your QB-watching eyes have proven to be freakishly defective. How does the rest of your quote un-imply my non-support of Trent Edwards?

Oh, and "structure"? You want to dog structure? On a message board? While we are talking about your post that had none at all? Like paragraph structure, for instance. Just look at your last two multiple sentenced replies. Including the one dogging my "structure". LOL.

God, I must be bored.

[Philagape]

You're just further confirming the point I made in the post in question, which you still haven't gotten. Which in itself furthers the point. And if you haven't gotten it by now, you're hopeless (that's the point, ultimately).
Word to add to the list of words you're misusing: "denying"

[TigerJ]

I think Trent has at times erred on the side of caution with his quick checkdowns. He does not have the big gun of a Brett Favre or JP Losman, but I think he has enough to throw a decent long ball. I think his arm strength is probably comparable to that of Tom Brady. All I can say is I hope he gets good protection this season and that he will hold on to the ball a little longer when he can, and when the first read is for Evans or Owens on a deep route. A good QB has a sixth sense about feeling pressure and knowing both when to get rid of it and when to hold it a fraction of a second longer.

[yordad]

You're just further confirming the point I made in the post in question, which you still haven't gotten. Which in itself furthers the point. And if you haven't gotten it by now, you're hopeless (that's the point, ultimately).
Word to add to the list of words you're misusing: "denying"What the... because no one can understand you, you feel you've made a point that I am hopeless?

Again, "I don't like conversations in riddle with walls".

[Captain gameboy]

Back to the question, I distinctly remember an NFL analyst, either on the NFL Network or ESPN, stating that he thought Trent Edwards threw the best long ball in the league last year.

For what its worth.

[lmcshadow]

Trent cant hang the long ball///////////Trent cant hang the long ball

[TacklingDummy]

4-12

[Michael82]

He can, but he chooses not to. :ill:

[lmcshadow]

He can, but he chooses not to. :ill:
Is it because he has a mild case of Dick-itus

[billser]

Back to the question, I distinctly remember an NFL analyst, either on the NFL Network or ESPN, stating that he thought Trent Edwards threw the best long ball in the league last year.

For what its worth.

Ya, Ive heard Schlereth say that at least on two different occasions on the Cowherd espn radio show. Dont know if thats what youre referring to.

[Mahdi]

I seem to remember Trent throwing a perfectly threaded deep ball to Josh Reed with defenders around him to help set up the winning field goal against Washington.

On December 2, 2007.

Unless you don't count a 30 yard pass as a deep ball.

If you do, that dispels the he can't throw it deep and can't throw it deep in poor weather conditions myth.
That wasn't really a deep ball. He just kinda lobbed up in the middle of the field and timed it well with Reed.

To add to this thread...

I believe Trent can throw deep, I believe he has thrown deep on occasion, I believe every QB in the NFL can throw it deep. That is easy.

The question with Trent is can he throw the passes that are actually tough to complete. The ones, Mannings, Brees, Brady, Palmer, Roth, Cutler, etc. throw...

Namely, can he throw the 20 yard outs, the deep post, the skinny post, the deep crossing pattern, the deep slant....

THOSE are the throws that define an NFL QB, they require passes to be thrown with a lot of velocity, accuracy, timing, and trust your receiver will be there. They also require a technique that the best QBs possess, the ability to look off safeties and not stare down routes. Those throws also require a QB to be able to fit them into tight areas where 2 or 3 defenders are roaming.

That is what I have not seen from Trent, that is what I am waiting for. If he can do those things he will succeed, if he cant, he wont.

[ddaryl]

He can throw deep.. he just doesn't seem to be able to throw the ball to the spot where the WR can out position the DB with any sort of consistency and therfore has little confidence to do so IMO

[Michael82]

Is it because he has a mild case of Dick-itus
Yup! He's afraid of his own shadow and afraid of making a mistake.

[lmcshadow]

If you guys dont know by know...Well lets see- ---VS- -Pittsburg Trent Edwards 6 for 13 31 yards...Yeah I know its pre season........ yada yada yada

[BillsWin]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d804f1e79/Bills-38-Dolphins-17

He can do it, hes just playing scared right now.

[Michael82]

If you guys dont know by know...Well lets see- ---VS- -Pittsburg Trent Edwards 6 for 13 31 yards...Yeah I know its pre season........ yada yada yada
Last two weeks total yards....

13/24 for 76 yards and 2 INTs :puke:

[The Popcorn]

Edwards doesn't need to hang the long ball. He just needs to get it down field and create first downs. Once T.O. is back in the lineup, he will be doing that.

[madness]

Edwards doesn't need to hang the long ball. He just needs to get it down field and create first downs. Once T.O. is back in the lineup, he will be doing that.

I definitely agree. With T.O. out, it's the same problem as last year... no #2 to keep defenses honest.

The line took a nice step forward but they still need better protect for the deep ball too. I saw Trent try to go deep at least a couple times Sat. and each time he was hit before he could get the ball off.

[justasportsfan]

HIs throw to Reed last year says he can. THe problem is, his nuts only drop once in a while for him to pull the trigger.

[Mahdi]

Anyone in the NFL can hang a deep ball. I have seen 15 year old kids throw a lob ball deep.

Since Trent has taken over this team I have never EVER seen him throw a dart into the seems of the field in between coverage.

Sorry but the Steelers only had Hines Ward yesterday and a second year guy in Sweed. Yet Roth was gunning passes into coverage and giving his guy a chance to make plays on the ball.

Trent has Lee Evans and Josh Reed. Dont tell me he cant find any of them down the field. That is impossible. And again, when I say down the field I mean 15 to 20 yards. Not 40 yard bombs, who cares about that. They only happen 1ce or 2ice a game.

[Michael82]

Anyone in the NFL can hang a deep ball. I have seen 15 year old kids throw a lob ball deep.

Since Trent has taken over this team I have never EVER seen him throw a dart into the seems of the field in between coverage.

Sorry but the Steelers only had Hines Ward yesterday and a second year guy in Sweed. Yet Roth was gunning passes into coverage and giving his guy a chance to make plays on the ball.

Trent has Lee Evans and Josh Reed. Dont tell me he cant find any of them down the field. That is impossible. And again, when I say down the field I mean 15 to 20 yards. Not 40 yard bombs, who cares about that. They only happen 1ce or 2ice a game.
That's my biggest problem. Sure, I'd love to see us go deep a lot, but I at least want to see Trent throw that 20-30 yard passes in the middle of the field that get lots of RAC.