Maybin contract rumor

[BillsWin]

I just got a text from a guy at work saying that a team source told John Clayton that Maybin's contract may take another 8-10 days unless there is some big break through in the next few days. Its not real big news though, Clayton already expressed his opinion that it would take more than a week yesterday. Just passing it along.

[Bufftp]

maybin yes, maybin not....

[DMBcrew36]

Oh well - the little guy prob won't play much this year anyway.

[Goobylal]

Do you think there comes a point where you say "here is our final offer, take it or sit out the year and re-enter the draft?"

[RamblingMisnomer]

8-10 days?? Jesus that would be a debacle...

[Ed]

Do you think there comes a point where you say "here is our final offer, take it or sit out the year and re-enter the draft?"
No, it never comes to that. That's a lose-lose situation for everyone.

A deal will get done eventually. It always does.

[Lefty2985]

there is no reason for it to take that much longer at all!!!

[Goobylal]

No, it never comes to that. That's a lose-lose situation for everyone.

A deal will get done eventually. It always does.
Sure it's a lose-lose situation, but one side loses a lot more. Namely the player. The chances that Maybin gets picked in the first round next year, much less in the top-15, if he sits-out the year are slim-to-none. And he loses a year of NFL money. As it stands, he's losing playing-time incentive money because he'll be so far when he DOES get into camp, that they might limit his play during the regular season to very little.

[Buffalogic]

You're right, let's just throw away a first round pick, who needs em right?

[elltrain22]

I thought for sure he'd be signed, sealed, and delievered in no time. Not good that he is holding out. Whatever the case, Maybin is not going to help us out this year anyways.

[Luisito23]

I hate 1st. round snobs!...They haven't even played a down, and they think they own the world.

[BillsFanInNM]

You're right, let's just throw away a first round pick, who needs em right?



why not? we've seemed to do it quite a bit for the last 10 years or so............... :couch:

[Goobylal]

You're right, let's just throw away a first round pick, who needs em right?
I doubt it would come to that.

[Buffalogic]

I have to admit that I never wanted Maybin in the first place and so far this isn't really helping to win me over.. He definitely has a big uphill climb to breakdown all of the negative stigmas associated with him.

Whether that's fair or not doesn't matter, that's just the way it is. I just don't want him to turn into a nothing, like Gholston or something.

[Ed]

Sure it's a lose-lose situation, but one side loses a lot more. Namely the player. The chances that Maybin gets picked in the first round next year, much less in the top-15, if he sits-out the year are slim-to-none. And he loses a year of NFL money. As it stands, he's losing playing-time incentive money because he'll be so far when he DOES get into camp, that they might limit his play during the regular season to very little.
My point was that that never happens though. He'll sign eventually it's just going to take longer then we'd like.

[OpIv37]

So, let's review:

1. The Bills' pass rush sucked last year. Calling it "anemic" would be giving it too much credit.
2. The Bills' solution to their pass-rushing woes is to use an undersized rookie.
3. Due to contracting issues, the undersized DE who is the only "upgrade" to a pathetic pass rush has missed the first week of camp, and is likely to miss another 1-1.5 weeks plus the first preseason game.

Bellicheck and Brady are just drooling in anticipation of that first game.

[patmoran2006]

Oh well - the little guy prob won't play much this year anyway.
The 11th overall pick of the draft, to a team that has continuously had losing seasons, SHOULD be playing plenty.

We're not the Colts or Pats. The Bills don't have that luxury.

[Buffalogic]

4. Trade for Burgess and fix everything.

[OpIv37]

The 11th overall pick of the draft, to a team that has continuously had losing seasons, SHOULD be playing plenty.

We're not the Colts or Pats. The Bills don't have that luxury.

you're right in that he SHOULD.

However, Maybin is undersized and his run D is questionable, and the Bills basically said he'd initially be used as a pass rushing specialist.

It doesn't make much sense to use the 11th overall pick on a situational pass rusher. But we're talking about the Bills here- the FO does a lot of things that don't make sense and the results on the field prove it.

[OpIv37]

4. Trade for Burgess and fix everything.

that would be a gutsy move that would help the team win NOW rather than trying to build for a future that never actually arrives.

Translation: the Bills will never do it.

[Goobylal]

My point was that that never happens though. He'll sign eventually it's just going to take longer then we'd like.
Giving him an ultimatum might make him sign quicker.

[Goobylal]

So, let's review:

1. The Bills' pass rush sucked last year. Calling it "anemic" would be giving it too much credit.
2. The Bills' solution to their pass-rushing woes is to use an undersized rookie.
3. Due to contracting issues, the undersized DE who is the only "upgrade" to a pathetic pass rush has missed the first week of camp, and is likely to miss another 1-1.5 weeks plus the first preseason game.

Bellicheck and Brady are just drooling in anticipation of that first game.
The pass rush sucked last year because Schobel missed over 2/3 of the season. Not to mention the other problems on defense were that McCargo was injured and lazy (which seems to be different this year), Crowell quit just before the season started, and the top-3 DB's missed a combined total of 19 games.

[Buffalogic]

If they got smart they would trade some of our excess WR/DB's or picks for Burgess. We could have Stroud, Schobel, and Burgess and let Maybin slowly figure it out while the rest of the line dominates..

[Goobylal]

If they got smart they would trade some of our excess WR/DB's or picks for Burgess. We could have Stroud, Schobel, and Burgess and let Maybin slowly figure it out while the rest of the line dominates..
Who do you cut? Ellis? Denney? Kelsay? Copeland (who is a sure goner IMHO)?

[TigerJ]

I don't like a ten day wait any more than the next guy, but among all the positions a player can play, a defensive end might be hurt less by a holdout than any other position with the possible exception of RB, especially since Maybin is probably going to start out as a situational pass rusher, whether it's from the DE spot or outside linebacker.

[Buffalogic]

Maybe we can con a team into believing Kelsay has value. His name is somewhat recognizable because of that play he made on monday night against dallas..It's easy to kiss any of those people goodbye when you get a great talent like Burgess.

[Ingtar33]

So, let's review:

1. The Bills' pass rush sucked last year. Calling it "anemic" would be giving it too much credit.
2. The Bills' solution to their pass-rushing woes is to use an undersized rookie.
3. Due to contracting issues, the undersized DE who is the only "upgrade" to a pathetic pass rush has missed the first week of camp, and is likely to miss another 1-1.5 weeks plus the first preseason game.

Bellicheck and Brady are just drooling in anticipation of that first game.


an undersized pashrusher who's the same size as javon kearse (and much bigger then dwight freeney) and was hands down the best pashrusher in the draft.

lets drop the whole "undersized" thing shall we?

[RamblingMisnomer]

an undersized pashrusher who's the same size as javon kearse (and much bigger then dwight freeney) and was hands down the best pashrusher in the draft.

lets drop the whole "undersized" thing shall we?

Hands down? Quite a few sites disagree with that assessment. Orakpo, Brown, English, Kruger, and Barwin would also probably have an issue. Maybin thrived for the most part due to his superior athleticism. He was considered raw by most reports on his actual technique and was seen as a potential pick not a ready pick. But you still think he was the best pass rusher as of now going into the NFL?

[Michael82]

So, let's review:

1. The Bills' pass rush sucked last year. Calling it "anemic" would be giving it too much credit.
2. The Bills' solution to their pass-rushing woes is to use an undersized rookie.
3. Due to contracting issues, the undersized DE who is the only "upgrade" to a pathetic pass rush has missed the first week of camp, and is likely to miss another 1-1.5 weeks plus the first preseason game.

Bellicheck and Brady are just drooling in anticipation of that first game.
You keep forgetting about another player that will be helping the Bills' pathetic pass rush this year... Chris Ellis! Mark my words, he will have a good season.

[patmoran2006]

you're right in that he SHOULD.

However, Maybin is undersized and his run D is questionable, and the Bills basically said he'd initially be used as a pass rushing specialist.

It doesn't make much sense to use the 11th overall pick on a situational pass rusher. But we're talking about the Bills here- the FO does a lot of things that don't make sense and the results on the field prove it.

That was sort of my point. And I'll say this on the record; I supported the pick of Maybin, and I wanted the Bills to draft him. I'm not ready to jump off his rails in early August.

The reason I like him is this. When a player comes into the NFL, he is generally compared to an established player. In Maybin's case, from what little I saw, and alot that I've heard, he is a Terrell Suggs type of player. What team doesn't want that?

The problem I see isn't in Maybin himself but the type of defense we run. I dont' see how he can be effective consistently in our cover two defense. Part of the reason I throw my support to this pick is the realistic possibility Jauron and his staff get ditched after this season; in part because it's much deserved and I guarentee in no small part that a new coach will be Ralph Wilson's focal marketing point next offseason, at T.O. was this spring.

So until we see a different defensive alignment, I really don't think Maybin is going to make much of an impact. At best, maybe he'll be a 2009 defensive version of Kawika Mitchell, who had 1-2 big games and basically dissappeared the rest of the season.

[SquishDaFish]

an undersized pashrusher who's the same size as javon kearse (and much bigger then dwight freeney) and was hands down the best pashrusher in the draft.

lets drop the whole "undersized" thing shall we?

I agree Im sick of people using that argument. Its dumb

[Jan Reimers]

Ah, the gloom and doom is upon us. Our first round pick may miss 2-3 weeks of camp. The season is over.

(This, despite the fact that Schobel appears to be healthy, Ellis much improved, McCargo motivated and in-shape, and Maybin at a position where rookies have as good a chance of early success as a any on the field.)

Let's give the Hell up on August 3rd, just like every season.

[jamze132]

Who do you cut? Ellis? Denney? Kelsay? Copeland (who is a sure goner IMHO)?
Eh, that's not a hard decision. But Copeland should go first, followed by Kelsay, then Denney. I would keep Ellis for now.

[Jan Reimers]

We'll keep at least 4, and probably 5, DEs. I would guess Schobel, Ellis, Maybin, Kelsay and Denney will all be on the roster.

[DMBcrew36]

Ah, the gloom and doom is upon us. Our first round pick may miss 2-3 weeks of camp. The season is over.

(This, despite the fact that Schobel appears to be healthy, Ellis much improved, McCargo motivated and in-shape, and Maybin at a position where rookies have as good a chance of early success as a any on the field.)

Let's give the Hell up on August 3rd, just like every season.

Ellis is much improved? Really? Based on what? Because I think it'd be pretty easy for everyone just to forget he is even on the team. He hasn't don't a damn thing.

[Jan Reimers]

Ellis is much improved? Really? Based on what? Because I think it'd be pretty easy for everyone just to forget he is even on the team. He hasn't don't a damn thing.
From everything I've read - including Chris Brown's TC blogs and our own Mikey's Reports - he's stronger and playing much more effectively this year.

Excuse me for being optimistic, though. I know it's only camp, he hasn't done it in the regular season, etc., etc.

Sorry to upset your negative view with a bit of good news. You don't have to repeat all of the arguments why optimism is stupid, I've heard them all.

[The Popcorn]

I hate 1st. round snobs!...They haven't even played a down, and they think they own the world.

This is exactly why they need to structure a salary for these draft picks. They get a certain amount for where they are picked and get no more or no less. This would eliminate holdouts for rookies altogether.

[DMBcrew36]

From everything I've read - including Chris Brown's TC blogs and our own Mikey's Reports - he's stronger and playing much more effectively this year.

Excuse me for being optimistic, though. I know it's only camp, he hasn't done it in the regular season, etc., etc.

Sorry to upset your negative view with a bit of good news. You don't have to repeat all of the arguments why optimism is stupid, I've heard them all.

Playing more effectively in what? 1v1 battles against Bills scrubs? Don't get me wrong - I hope you're right - but lets wait and watch when the season starts before we project this kid into being some big addition to the D-line.

[justasportsfan]

You keep forgetting about another player that will be helping the Bills' pathetic pass rush this year... Chris Ellis! Mark my words, he will have a good season.
I think OP wanted proof and Ellis hasn't done anything other that what you've seen at camp. I hope you are right Mikey but on the other hand, Robosack was the NFL's training camp MVP every year.

[justasportsfan]

So until we see a different defensive alignment, I really don't think Maybin is going to make much of an impact. At best, maybe he'll be a 2009 defensive version of Kawika Mitchell, who had 1-2 big games and basically dissappeared the rest of the season.I agree. Kelsay and Ellis won't hand him the job as stated in the reports.

Could it be that talk about Maybin moving to lb(3-4) is because Kelsay and Ellis are doing very well at camp? :idunno:

[trapezeus]

what makes this annoying is that the bills have drafted ML in the 11-12 spot in 2007 then we took leodis in a similar spot. So as much as i love putting the onus on the bills, they are probably offering what is the standard contract for that range.

i'm not sure what business an undersized DE has in requesting more than what the very structured rookie draft contracts look like. 8-10 days seems odd. what is going to happen over those 8-10 days that isn't already offered or willing to be accepted now?

[Saratoga Slim]

that would be a gutsy move that would help the team win NOW rather than trying to build for a future that never actually arrives.

Translation: the Bills will never do it.

T.O.?

[Dr. Pepper]

T.O.?

exactly, i think the "Bills will never do it" argument went out the window when we signed TO this offseason.

[Jan Reimers]

Playing more effectively in what? 1v1 battles against Bills scrubs? Don't get me wrong - I hope you're right - but lets wait and watch when the season starts before we project this kid into being some big addition to the D-line.
Right now, all we have is camp to judge players by. There is no doubt Ellis is looking better in camp than he did last year. So are several other players.

I know that only the regular season will determine whether he has improved enough. In fact, the regular season will determine everything.

It's simply fun for me to try to gauge some of our young players' progress, and project their performance to the regular season. Just like it's fun for others to project that Ellis will continue to be a scrub, Maybin will be a nonfactor, etc.

If we couldn't offer opinions - positive and negative - on camp and other current happenings, this would be a pretty quiet board until the real season starts.

[psubills62]

what makes this annoying is that the bills have drafted ML in the 11-12 spot in 2007 then we took leodis in a similar spot. So as much as i love putting the onus on the bills, they are probably offering what is the standard contract for that range.

i'm not sure what business an undersized DE has in requesting more than what the very structured rookie draft contracts look like. 8-10 days seems odd. what is going to happen over those 8-10 days that isn't already offered or willing to be accepted now?

I think the main problem stems from a single statement made by the 49ers: I believe they said shortly after they drafted Crabtree that they got the best WR in the draft.

Now San Fran is trying to slot Crabtree in the 10th pick pay range. However, Crabtree's agents are pointing out that if he's the best WR in the draft (as they said), then he deserves more. They're also saying that he's really a top 3 prospect, so he deserves a lot more money.

Segal (Maybin's agent) is waiting for Crabtree to sign because if Crabtree's agents end up getting a lot more money than the 10th pick should have gotten, then that slots Maybin's pay range higher than it should be.

Obviously some of this is speculation on my part, but that is what seems to be the case based on what's been happening with Crabtree.

The NFL really needs to make rookie pay a priority. If they had the pay for each spot defined well before the draft (similar to NBA), then these holdouts wouldn't be a problem.

[trapezeus]

psu, that makes sense to me. i don't really follow other team's contract situations so i didn't know that crabtree's deal is what is holding up maybin.

you are right, this rookie payscale is a farce. it really screws the guys who get drafted in rounds 4-7 who tend to play capably without any of the glamour. they have less pie to eat so to speak.

[Beastie Bills]

you're right in that he SHOULD.

However, Maybin is undersized and his run D is questionable, and the Bills basically said he'd initially be used as a pass rushing specialist.

It doesn't make much sense to use the 11th overall pick on a situational pass rusher. But we're talking about the Bills here- the FO does a lot of things that don't make sense and the results on the field prove it.

Who would you have taken?

I only ask because I didn't really want Maybin either, but there was nobody at 11 who I would have wanted (Crabtree and Raji were already gone, and it was too early to take Pettigrew)

[Goobylal]

Who would you have taken?

I only ask because I didn't really want Maybin either, but there was nobody at 11 who I would have wanted (Crabtree and Raji were already gone, and it was too early to take Pettigrew)
I would assume Orakpo. But the Redskins are playing him at LB. And the Bills could do the same with Maybin.

[Ed]

I think I heard on the radio the other day that the WR from Oakland, picked at #7, got $23+ million in guaranteed money. That seems ridiculous and I think that contract is what's really screwing things up and making it harder for the teams in near by slots to negotiate. Stupid raiders always have to overpay everybody.

[OpIv37]

The pass rush sucked last year because Schobel missed over 2/3 of the season. Not to mention the other problems on defense were that McCargo was injured and lazy (which seems to be different this year), Crowell quit just before the season started, and the top-3 DB's missed a combined total of 19 games.

Well, Schobel sucks, McCargo is still lazy, Crowell is gone and at some point we're going to have injuries.

Schobel? Are you kidding me?

Man, it's ridiculous how people on this board completely overrate him. I look forward to his famous "line up wide and rush straight PAST the quarterback." He'll get 10 sacks this year if only we can get our opponents to institute a 13-step drop.

[OpIv37]

an undersized pashrusher who's the same size as javon kearse (and much bigger then dwight freeney) and was hands down the best pashrusher in the draft.

lets drop the whole "undersized" thing shall we?

right, because Aaron Maybin is equally as athletic as Freeney and Kearse :rolleyes:.

I read a lot of your posts and typically you are very knowledgeable- perhaps even the most knowledgeable on this board in terms of pure football smarts- but you are falling into the old "use the exception to prove the rule" trap here. On top of that, our ENTIRE defense is undersized. You can get away with a handful of guys being undersized- particularly in a D that depends more on speed or if some of those undersized guys are freakish athletes- but you can't get away with being undersized at damn near every position. The results speak for themselves.

[OpIv37]

T.O.?

Well, that move was gutsy- I'll give you that. But I'm not sure if it's going to help the team win because I think our OL will have Trent running for his life.

[BillsWin]

I think the main problem stems from a single statement made by the 49ers: I believe they said shortly after they drafted Crabtree that they got the best WR in the draft.

Now San Fran is trying to slot Crabtree in the 10th pick pay range. However, Crabtree's agents are pointing out that if he's the best WR in the draft (as they said), then he deserves more. They're also saying that he's really a top 3 prospect, so he deserves a lot more money.

Segal (Maybin's agent) is waiting for Crabtree to sign because if Crabtree's agents end up getting a lot more money than the 10th pick should have gotten, then that slots Maybin's pay range higher than it should be.

Obviously some of this is speculation on my part, but that is what seems to be the case based on what's been happening with Crabtree.

The NFL really needs to make rookie pay a priority. If they had the pay for each spot defined well before the draft (similar to NBA), then these holdouts wouldn't be a problem.

youre actually dead on.

[Philagape]

So in a way, Al Davis being an idiot has screwed us.

If he had taken Crabtree instead of DHB, then this "best WR in the draft" crap wouldn't be an issue and screwing up the scale.

Al Davis needs an induced stroke.

[paladin warrior]

Green Bay Packer's have not contract B.J Raji too..

[Goobylal]

Well, Schobel sucks, McCargo is still lazy, Crowell is gone and at some point we're going to have injuries.

Schobel? Are you kidding me?

Man, it's ridiculous how people on this board completely overrate him. I look forward to his famous "line up wide and rush straight PAST the quarterback." He'll get 10 sacks this year if only we can get our opponents to institute a 13-step drop.
It's funny how some people underrate Schobel and overrate a scrub like Crowell. Scobel doesn't suck, not even close. But believe what you want, Op.

[OpIv37]

It's funny how some people underrate Schobel and overrate a scrub like Crowell. Scobel doesn't suck, not even close. But believe what you want, Op.

dude checked out the second he got his payday. Defend him now because you won't be able to in 6 weeks when the real games start.

[kid mickey]

dude checked out the second he got his payday. Defend him now because you won't be able to in 6 weeks when the real games start.

I agree with this. Hopefully he checks back in this season. We need it.

[OpIv37]

I would assume Orakpo. But the Redskins are playing him at LB. And the Bills could do the same with Maybin.

Yes I would have gone with Orakpo.

I think the Skins are dumb for playing him at LB and I think the Bills will be dumb if they play Maybin at LB.

It's too easy of a read for the opposing QB. Neither can cover- if they blitz, the QB will know where the blitz is coming from ahead of time. If they don't blitz, the QB will know who to pick on.

[realdealryan]

Yes I would have gone with Orakpo.

I think the Skins are dumb for playing him at LB and I think the Bills will be dumb if they play Maybin at LB.

It's too easy of a read for the opposing QB. Neither can cover- if they blitz, the QB will know where the blitz is coming from ahead of time. If they don't blitz, the QB will know who to pick on.

Tell that to our coaches who drop Schobel into coverage.

[kid mickey]

Maybin's upside is crazy. Orakpo's isn't. I personally didn't want either, but of the two I preferred Maybin. I remember when our pick came up and Orakpo was still on the board, all I was saying was please not Orakpo, damn them Texas players over and over again. I wasn't thrilled with the Maybin selection, but I think he will be a better player than Orakpo.

[Michael82]

I wish we drafted Everette Brown instead.... He's going to be a beast in Carolina. :mad:

[jamze132]

Ellis is much improved? Really? Based on what? Because I think it'd be pretty easy for everyone just to forget he is even on the team. He hasn't don't a damn thing.
Wasn't he a rookie last year? Obviously he didn't see the field much but all the reports are that he is looking better.

[OpIv37]

It's funny how some people underrate Schobel and overrate a scrub like Crowell. Scobel doesn't suck, not even close. But believe what you want, Op.

And one more thing on Crowell. I agree, he's overrated, particularly on this board. But he's hardly a scrub- he's a solid player that a lot of people consider to be better than he is.

More importantly, who do we have that's better? Once again, the Bills do a nice job of getting rid of a vet with an injury problem who burned the team last year. Yet, they fail to replace him with anyone equal or better, and instead go with the scrub that was backing him up. How much sense does that make?

And finally, did you forget about this post:


The pass rush sucked last year because Schobel missed over 2/3 of the season. Not to mention the other problems on defense were that McCargo was injured and lazy (which seems to be different this year), Crowell quit just before the season started, and the top-3 DB's missed a combined total of 19 games.

You mention Crowell quitting as a reason why the D struggled last year, but then you call him a scrub. So typical of the homer mindset- the description changes based on whatever is necessary to fool yourself into thinking the Bills are somehow good.

[Goobylal]

And one more thing on Crowell. I agree, he's overrated, particularly on this board. But he's hardly a scrub- he's a solid player that a lot of people consider to be better than he is.

More importantly, who do we have that's better? Once again, the Bills do a nice job of getting rid of a vet with an injury problem who burned the team last year. Yet, they fail to replace him with anyone equal or better, and instead go with the scrub that was backing him up. How much sense does that make?
In case you haven't heard, Crowell still isn't 100% and might not be anytime soon. But the fact still remains that he decided to have surgery at the last second last year. At best, he was looking at getting the minor procedure, returning in a month, and playing less than 100% because he didn't get the surgery he really needed. Then he would have had that major surgery over the off-season, and would have been unsignable. The Bills did him a favor by putting him on IR, thus allowing him to get the major surgery while still getting paid for the season, so that he could make it to FA and cash-in, which he did. And again as I said, he's STILL not healthy.


And finally, did you forget about this post:

You mention Crowell quitting as a reason why the D struggled last year, but then you call him a scrub. So typical of the homer mindset- the description changes based on whatever is necessary to fool yourself into thinking the Bills are somehow good.
Not exactly. Crowell took the lion's share of starting snaps all throughout the off-season, training camp, and pre-season. Ellison didn't. The starting reps all throughout that time period would have helped Ellison out a ton, regardless of Crowell's perceived value.

[OpIv37]

In case you haven't heard, Crowell still isn't 100% and might not be anytime soon. But the fact still remains that he decided to have surgery at the last second last year. At best, he was looking at getting the minor procedure, returning in a month, and playing less than 100% because he didn't get the surgery he really needed. Then he would have had that major surgery over the off-season, and would have been unsignable. The Bills did him a favor by putting him on IR, thus allowing him to get the major surgery while still getting paid for the season, so that he could make it to FA and cash-in, which he did. And again as I said, he's STILL not healthy.


Not exactly. Crowell took the lion's share of starting snaps all throughout the off-season, training camp, and pre-season. Ellison didn't. The starting reps all throughout that time period would have helped Ellison out a ton, regardless of Crowell's perceived value.

1. Crowell at 100% is better than Ellison at 100%, period. It doesn't matter how many snaps they take- Crowell will never be Takeo Spikes in his prime and Ellison will never even be Crowell.

2. Crowell is still not 100%- so what? The Bills wisely dumped him- that's step 1. Step 2 is replacing him with someone equal or better. They replaced him with Ellison- see point #1.