Vick and Roscoe deal

[trapezeus]

Regardless of Vick's crimes, the thing that shocks me about these two rumors if true, is that the bills are making huge changes in training camp. It really talks about how poorly the FO plans.

If you compare it to our 90's teams, in 86-88, polian was putting pieces together. Kelly and Hull. Bruce and Reed, Thurman, Cornelius trade. It took a couple years for it to come together, but i don't recall him making training camp changes of this magnitude. I didn't seem him draft people that were never used and then some other person brought in to play where they drafted someone. Omon and rhodes being a case of that.

It just smacks of thte fact that this team has no identity and is chasing after a plan instead of setting up a plan and then executing.

Vick and Parrish deals are fun to talk about, but the underlying issue is that it means they aren't executing on an actual plan. They're just trying whatever it is they can do. How they couldn't focus on the trenches on both sides of the ball once and for all is stunning.

but at least they made a priority to start building up the OL.

[Ickybaluky]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

A couple of rumors and you were able to draw those widespread conclusions?

Sounds like you already had your mind made up going in.

[Pinkerton Security]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

Regardless of Vick's crimes, the thing that shocks me about these two rumors if true, is that the bills are making huge changes in training camp. It really talks about how poorly the FO plans.

If you compare it to our 90's teams, in 86-88, polian was putting pieces together. Kelly and Hull. Bruce and Reed, Thurman, Cornelius trade. It took a couple years for it to come together, but i don't recall him making training camp changes of this magnitude. I didn't seem him draft people that were never used and then some other person brought in to play where they drafted someone. Omon and rhodes being a case of that.

It just smacks of thte fact that this team has no identity and is chasing after a plan instead of setting up a plan and then executing.

Vick and Parrish deals are fun to talk about, but the underlying issue is that it means they aren't executing on an actual plan. They're just trying whatever it is they can do. How they couldn't focus on the trenches on both sides of the ball once and for all is stunning.

but at least they made a priority to start building up the OL.

i'd say there is about a 3 percent chance of either of these things happening, so dont get too carried away!

[Oaf]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

A couple of rumors and you were able to draw those widespread conclusions?

Sounds like you already had your mind made up going in.

But I think he's got a point. This team has no identity. We chase after one identity then turn paths for another.

For example, remember when 2-3 years ago, the light, aggressive, penetrating linemen were all the rage for the D we were trying to instill? Look where that got us. Then, after investing so much into that system we get a Kawika Mitchell to "beef ourselves up" and provide that "nasty streak" even though he's a downright TERRIBLE fit for our D and is wildly inconsistent in play.

We have no identity, and so our draft and FA moves are scattershot. (especially in terms of effectiveness.)

[trapezeus]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

how is it that i had my mind made up. i'm saying if they elect to make major changes at this point of training camp, it is proof that the plan isn't being laid out properly.

I'm really confused how they knew they needed a backup, and then signed Fitzpatrick and was stunned now that he wasn't what they wanted. Regardless of vick, the general word seems to be they aren't really excited about fitzpatrick.

During draft time this year, i was excited that they went with the lines in day 1. It was a departure from standard operating procedure. but then in day 2 they went back to DB's. This team isn't in rebuilding mode because that implies there is a plan they are following.

For the most part it looks like we are trying desperately to bale water out of the boat by plugging in new stopgaps when new holes pop up.

While a vick or parrish deal would be exciting, it keeps us from having a proper vision of fielding a winning team.

[seanbillsfan]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

there is no proof that either of these 'deals' are even happening. wtf

[Pinkerton Security]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

how is it that i had my mind made up. i'm saying if they elect to make major changes at this point of training camp, it is proof that the plan isn't being laid out properly.

I'm really confused how they knew they needed a backup, and then signed Fitzpatrick and was stunned now that he wasn't what they wanted. Regardless of vick, the general word seems to be they aren't really excited about fitzpatrick.

During draft time this year, i was excited that they went with the lines in day 1. It was a departure from standard operating procedure. but then in day 2 they went back to DB's. This team isn't in rebuilding mode because that implies there is a plan they are following.

For the most part it looks like we are trying desperately to bale water out of the boat by plugging in new stopgaps when new holes pop up.

While a vick or parrish deal would be exciting, it keeps us from having a proper vision of fielding a winning team.

the last bolded statement is completely bogus, IMO. We have a more receivers than we can field, and parrish hasnt contributed as a WR at all. So wouldnt getting rid of someone who doesnt contribute much and gaining a possible starting LB who is BETTER than what we have, as well as a supposed 3rd round pick, a good thing?

And why is our vision wrong if we realize after TC and 1 preseason game that the QB we thought would be our #2 is complete garbage??? Is it worth it to stick to the plan, even if that plan includes having a #2 QB that is worthless??

Even the great football minds have to roll with the punches and adapt their plan from time to time.

[Tatonka]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

lame thread..

[cocamide]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

there is no proof that either of these 'deals' are even happening. wtf

Not only is there no proof, there's not even any evidence. Unless you consider my uncle's, landlord's son who works at the airport a reliable source.

[sdbillsfan2]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

The Bills shouldn't even be in a position where these things are even possible.
If we had a solid base in place already , the speculation wouldn't even make a good rumor. Sad fact is , no one would be surprised.

[Ickybaluky]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

how is it that i had my mind made up. i'm saying if they elect to make major changes at this point of training camp, it is proof that the plan isn't being laid out properly.

The Patriots have signed veterans in LB Rob Ninkovich (cut by the Saints) and S Herana-Daze Jones (played 3 years for the Bengals) and QB Andrew Walter (cut by Oakland) since camp began a couple week ago. They also traded for DE Derrick Burgess, from Oakland.

They have also worked out DT/DE Kevin Carter, and will sign him if he chooses not to retire. If he does, they likely will sign DE Vonnie Holliday if he is still available.

Do they have a plan?

I think teams are always making move if they think they can improve themselves. They are always looking to make themselves better, both in the short-term (like a Vick would) or long-term (like a trade of Parrish would). I'm not sure how you can criticize them for that.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

The Patriots have signed veterans in LB Rob Ninkovich (cut by the Saints) and S Herana-Daze Jones (played 3 years for the Bengals) and QB Andrew Walter (cut by Oakland) since camp began a couple week ago. They also traded for DE Derrick Burgess, from Oakland.

They have also worked out DT/DE Kevin Carter, and will sign him if he chooses not to retire. If he does, they likely will sign DE Vonnie Holliday if he is still available.

Do they have a plan?

I think teams are always making move if they think they can improve themselves. They are always looking to make themselves better, both in the short-term (like a Vick would) or long-term (like a trade of Parrish would). I'm not sure how you can criticize them for that.

Yep!

[HHURRICANE]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

Regardless of the rumors the point is valid. Our o-line was horrible so they dismantle it and bring in Dockery, Whittle, Walker, and move Peters. The line was the best we had seen in a while.

Instead of tweaking it and bringing a center in we change every position on the line. How does that make any sense when our biggest issue on offense was the recieving corp?

So how do we adreess the WR position? By adding a 35 year old pro with a one year deal. So what happens next year?

[trapezeus]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

Do the patriots have a capable coach? Yep.
Do we? No.
Do the patriots know how to get the ebst out of players? Yep.
Do we? No.

for the most part, the Patriots have the fact that they are very adaptable to changing situations. That's why when they pick up a couple players, they change certain things for those players so they are successful.

Jauron is still trying to run up the middle on 4th down in the redzone when that has NEVER worked for him YTD.

My point was said well by SDbillsfan2 above.

For roscoe, i'm all for trading him. There would have been a good time to get a better deal during the draft. We could have gotten picks. i know that there were rumors then and nothing materialized. But we weren't very active in free agency. We still have a bunch of undersized DE's. We didn't pick up a single one but Maybin. The linebacking core is still inadequate. Poz could improve, mitchell is still slow in coverage, ellison is still a starter option.

in the end it just seems that the coaching (which none of us are long on) and the FO aren't acting in accordance to each other. We're changing stuff to fit jauron but the word is if he doesn't get it done this year, he's out. and the front office is jonesing to change him with their guy, but then don't know what personnel to bring in.

It's a mess....and that's my point.

[Bill Cody]

Re: Vick and Roscoe deal

Do the patriots have a capable coach? Yep.
Do we? No.
Do the patriots know how to get the ebst out of players? Yep.
Do we? No.

Looks like a no win situation for the Bills in your eyes. You criticize the team for trying to make moves because it shows we lack a plan. Then when it's pointed out that the Pats are making a bunch of moves you say we're not the Pats. Guess we're doomed.