I'm not seeing what a lot of you do in Harris

[patmoran2006]

I, like many others on here and in other forums, am a big fan of Nic Harris. He has shown toughness and the potential to be a playmaker in this defense.
However, unlike most people, I don’t think he’s very close to taking Keith Ellison’s starting job. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see someone take Ellison’s spot, but Harris isn’t ready.

Perhaps going back to watch the Bears game should be in order. Harris was burned badly in pass coverage twice. Once in the second quarter that led to a 30 yard Desmond Clark completion, and he left his guy in the flat on the Chicago touchdown later in the game to pursue the quarterback (a big no-no in cover two defense.)

The Bills by nature run a very conservative type of defense. “Bend don’t break” certainly applies to this unit. For many reasons, but none more than simply being a rookie, I don’t think Harris starts this year, barring injury. As much as I don’t like Ellison, I’m positive the Bills are more comfortable with him on their defense, especially their pass defense- at this time at least.

[Mahdi]

I, like many others on here and in other forums, am a big fan of Nic Harris. He has shown toughness and the potential to be a playmaker in this defense.
However, unlike most people, I don’t think he’s very close to taking Keith Ellison’s starting job. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see someone take Ellison’s spot, but Harris isn’t ready.

Perhaps going back to watch the Bears game should be in order. Harris was burned badly in pass coverage twice. Once in the second quarter that led to a 30 yard Desmond Clark completion, and he left his guy in the flat on the Chicago touchdown later in the game to pursue the quarterback (a big no-no in cover two defense.)

The Bills by nature run a very conservative type of defense. “Bend don’t break” certainly applies to this unit. For many reasons, but none more than simply being a rookie, I don’t think Harris starts this year, barring injury. As much as I don’t like Ellison, I’m positive the Bills are more comfortable with him on their defense, especially their pass defense- at this time at least.
Getting beat in coverage happens to every player, experienced or not. And the decision to rush the QB and leave his man is a very correctable one.

I'll take a few rookie mistakes early on in the season for the rest of what Harris brings that Ellison doesnt.

Harris is one of those players that can light up a defense, he's bigger, faster, stronger, taller and more instinctive than Ellison.

IMO he should takeover for Ellison ASAP. But our staff typically take their time starting the high potential, low/no experience guys. (Stevie J., Fred Jack, Leodis)

[patmoran2006]

Id like to make my stance clear that I DO like Nic Harris and I think he could be starting material.

Just not right now. And for better or worse, we have conservative coaches and getting beat in coverage badly (twice) IS a factor that will keep Ellison on the field over him-- for now.

[mysticsoto]

Well let's keep in mind what he did do not just what he didn't. I didn't watch him exclusively that night, but perhaps others can help me on plays they saw and liked from him.

- He tipped a pass that would have been a sure TD.

- I remember seeing him knocking the crap out of someone - might have been a RB on a run play. I just remember him leveling the guy...

- Overall, he just always seemed to be around the ball.

[yordad]

I think Harris should start right now. Maybe he could be assessed better. I mean, if he makes a single play, it will be more then Ellison did all of last year (unless you count running a direct snap fack punt for a 4 yrd first down).

I just don't think he can be worse then Ellsion, and he has far greater potential.

[madness]

I think most of us acknowledge that he's not ready. I'm certainly not expecting him to crack the starting lineup anytime soon but I could see it happening during the season if he gets a chance. He still has a way to go but what I've seen so far is very promising.

[Dujek]

As I said when discussing the game, I think he's capable of starting sometime this season, but Ellison will be the starter against the Patriots.

Harris will have a positive impact when he's on the field though.

[patmoran2006]

As I said when discussing the game, I think he's capable of starting sometime this season, but Ellison will be the starter against the Patriots.

Harris will have a positive impact when he's on the field though.
I dont disagree.. Good points

I DO like harris.. I just dont think he's quite ready to start in the NFL yet.

[Tatonka]

our starting defense has been very good so far this season.. Pos is all over the field and i do think he is going to have a huge season.. one that we expected last year..

so i dont think the coaches will rush to take ellison out.. that said, harris does seem to just have a buzz about him.. he looks intimidating.. he hits hard.. he is a smart player who will learn from the mistakes he made.. i think he is starting sooner than later.. rookies start and exceed all the time at LB and RB.. i dont think harris will be any different.

[DraftBoy]

I think Harris will push Ellison early on but I dont see him starting before Week 4, his coverage skills are bad. He really has to work on that, especially in this D. I havent watched the game from Saturday yet, so I cant comment on that but based on his college play, and his 1st preseason game it appears to still be an issue, which is to be expected as he is a rookie and making a position change.

I do like his aggressiveness and the way he hits though.

[bigbub2352]

even if harris made some mistakes at least he does something rather than nothing at all like Ellison

[mysticsoto]

I think Harris will push Ellison early on but I dont see him starting before Week 4, his coverage skills are bad. He really has to work on that, especially in this D. I havent watched the game from Saturday yet, so I cant comment on that but based on his college play, and his 1st preseason game it appears to still be an issue, which is to be expected as he is a rookie and making a position change.

I do like his aggressiveness and the way he hits though.

And Ellison's coverage skills aren't? He made like 1 play 2 years ago - an interception in his rookie year and after that, he's been a non-entity and more of a liability.

[Nighthawk]

I, like many others on here and in other forums, am a big fan of Nic Harris. He has shown toughness and the potential to be a playmaker in this defense.
However, unlike most people, I don’t think he’s very close to taking Keith Ellison’s starting job. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see someone take Ellison’s spot, but Harris isn’t ready.

Perhaps going back to watch the Bears game should be in order. Harris was burned badly in pass coverage twice. Once in the second quarter that led to a 30 yard Desmond Clark completion, and he left his guy in the flat on the Chicago touchdown later in the game to pursue the quarterback (a big no-no in cover two defense.)

The Bills by nature run a very conservative type of defense. “Bend don’t break” certainly applies to this unit. For many reasons, but none more than simply being a rookie, I don’t think Harris starts this year, barring injury. As much as I don’t like Ellison, I’m positive the Bills are more comfortable with him on their defense, especially their pass defense- at this time at least.

All I know is that Harris has made more plays in his first 2 NFL games (preseason or not) then Ellison has made his entire career! The big thing that the kid does, is he is always around the ball. Also, he'll stick his nose in there and take on a block instead of getting engulfed like Ellison does. Pat, there is not even a comparison...Harris has showed me a ton more then Ellison ever has.

[yordad]

The strong side LB gets taken off the field in the nickle. And, how can a converted safety be worse in coverage then Ellison?

[Mahdi]

All I know is that Harris has made more plays in his first 2 NFL games (preseason or not) then Ellison has made his entire career! The big thing that the kid does, is he is always around the ball. Also, he'll stick his nose in there and take on a block instead of getting engulfed like Ellison does. Pat, there is not even a comparison...Harris has showed me a ton more then Ellison ever has.
Yeah I know which play yer talking about... the one where Harris attacked the OT full steam and took him out of the play. It allowed the rest of our guys to make the tackle on the RB.

Its that attacking mentality I really like about him.

[Oaf]

I dont disagree.. Good points

I DO like harris.. I just dont think he's quite ready to start in the NFL yet.
I agree with you that he is not ready yet. Although I disagree with your negative assessment on the Haine TD play- I believe that was the right course of action. Had of followed the back, he would have been taken out of the play, which was going to be a QB run so he did his best to cover both ends- shove the RB in the back as hard as he could and go take a great shot at the QB before he could run into the lane with the ball. The RB kept his balance, Haine made a good play before getting wacked, and none of the 5 guys behind Harris was able to come up on a contained play. I know if that was me, I would have left the RB to the guys behind me as well and gone for the ballcarrier right in front of me.

He did blow that coverage though, that was bad.

[Mitchell55]

I, like many others on here and in other forums, am a big fan of Nic Harris. He has shown toughness and the potential to be a playmaker in this defense.
However, unlike most people, I don’t think he’s very close to taking Keith Ellison’s starting job. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see someone take Ellison’s spot, but Harris isn’t ready.

Perhaps going back to watch the Bears game should be in order. Harris was burned badly in pass coverage twice. Once in the second quarter that led to a 30 yard Desmond Clark completion, and he left his guy in the flat on the Chicago touchdown later in the game to pursue the quarterback (a big no-no in cover two defense.)

The Bills by nature run a very conservative type of defense. “Bend don’t break” certainly applies to this unit. For many reasons, but none more than simply being a rookie, I don’t think Harris starts this year, barring injury. As much as I don’t like Ellison, I’m positive the Bills are more comfortable with him on their defense, especially their pass defense- at this time at least.




Harris is also a saftey. Hes still trying to make the transition from pass coverage along with run coverage. Give him a few games to adjust to being a LB in pass coverage and this wont happen again

[Mitchell55]

Coverage skills can be taught in one day. What harris has cant be taught and its what Ellison doesnt have.

[mysticsoto]

Coverage skills can be taught in one day. What harris has cant be taught and its what Ellison doesnt have.

Well said. You could just see that Harris has the football instincts you want in a LB. He took on incoming blockers before they got to him - essentially stuffing and forcing holes to close on some run plays. He's got what it takes. Ellison could easily get blocked and pushed out by Parrish sized guys...

[jamze132]

I would rather see Harris in NE than Ellison, regardless of how raw he is. My distaste for Ellison is borderline Tim Andersonish.

[Akhippo]

I dont know the answer to this, and this isnt a rhetorical question, but did Ellison even play in the last game? I watched the whole game and dont remember a time when Ellison was a impact in even the smallest amount.

Harris though was making plays. Did Harris actually get beat on that TE pass or did he release his guy into zone coverage. It looked like the safety should have picked him up but was Ko, i mean slow to get over.

[mysticsoto]

I dont know the answer to this, and this isnt a rhetorical question, but did Ellison even play in the last game? I watched the whole game and dont remember a time when Ellison was a impact in even the smallest amount.

Harris though was making plays. Did Harris actually get beat on that TE pass or did he release his guy into zone coverage. It looked like the safety should have picked him up but was Ko, i mean slow to get over.

Ellison did play, but as you mention, he was a non-entity (as usual).

I agree on the pass coverage to the TE...I blamed it on Ko also. So did the TV analysts who mentioned that Ko was slow to get over.

[psubills62]

This is one of the problems with the Bills staff. For some reason they seem to be afraid to play young guys with a lot of upside. How do you think they're going to reach their potential if they don't play in games? I'd rather have Harris in there getting a sack, pass breakup, etc. on several plays even if he does give up one or two other plays.

[HHURRICANE]

I, like many others on here and in other forums, am a big fan of Nic Harris. He has shown toughness and the potential to be a playmaker in this defense.
However, unlike most people, I don’t think he’s very close to taking Keith Ellison’s starting job. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see someone take Ellison’s spot, but Harris isn’t ready.

Perhaps going back to watch the Bears game should be in order. Harris was burned badly in pass coverage twice. Once in the second quarter that led to a 30 yard Desmond Clark completion, and he left his guy in the flat on the Chicago touchdown later in the game to pursue the quarterback (a big no-no in cover two defense.)

The Bills by nature run a very conservative type of defense. “Bend don’t break” certainly applies to this unit. For many reasons, but none more than simply being a rookie, I don’t think Harris starts this year, barring injury. As much as I don’t like Ellison, I’m positive the Bills are more comfortable with him on their defense, especially their pass defense- at this time at least.

Pat the one play you are talking about was completely Simpson's fault, not Harris. Did you miss Nic's play in the endzone? The guy was amazing. Harris not starting is a mistake.

[Philagape]

What do they have to lose on starting Harris? We know what they have in Ellison. Better to go with an unknown with upside than a proven failure.

[HHURRICANE]

Harris though was making plays. Did Harris actually get beat on that TE pass or did he release his guy into zone coverage. It looked like the safety should have picked him up but was Ko, i mean slow to get over.

Yes, that is exactly what I was talking about. Good post. It was on Simpson to get over there. Harris did not blow that play unless you expect your linebacker to playing 30 yeards off the line of scrimmage.

Simpson is becoming a liability.

[Dujek]

Simpson is becoming a liability.

Becoming?

[psubills62]

Simpson is becoming a liability.

I completely agree with this statement. Maybe it was the camera angle, but on the final Bears touchdown pass, I thought that there was no way any competent safety should have let that pass through. If Ko had been looking at the QB at all he would have been able to at least bat it down.

Like I said, maybe it was the camera angle and the ball was farther from him laterally than it looks, but there is no way the receiver should have even gotten his hands on the ball, imo.

[Ingtar33]

Harris has impressed me more then any other rookie in camp thus far (i expected wood to be good).

I loved him at OSU as a playmaker and a difference maker. i just didn't expect him to make the transition to NFL SLB this easily. Right now he's looking better then Ellison to me. I'd start him now.

[patmoran2006]

What do they have to lose on starting Harris? We know what they have in Ellison. Better to go with an unknown with upside than a proven failure.
While I personally agree with you, that is not standard operating procedure at One Bills Drive.

[The Juice Is Loose]

Getting beat in coverage happens to every player, experienced or not. And the decision to rush the QB and leave his man is a very correctable one.

I'll take a few rookie mistakes early on in the season for the rest of what Harris brings that Ellison doesnt.

Harris is one of those players that can light up a defense, he's bigger, faster, stronger, taller and more instinctive than Ellison.

IMO he should takeover for Ellison ASAP. But our staff typically take their time starting the high potential, low/no experience guys. (Stevie J., Fred Jack, Leodis)

everybody see this? pat says harris won't take ellisons spot.

sooooo that mean's he will!

[mysticsoto]

Good to know others are picking up on this also...from Chris Brown's blog:
___________________________________________________________

How is Alvin Bowen coming along? I know he had a good training camp last year but went down due to injury. Does he have any chance at starting over Ellison?
Thanks.
Kay

CB: Bowen is doing well. Since Ashlee Palmer suffered an ankle injury in the HOF game Bowen has moved up to the second unit at weak side LB behind Kawika Mitchell. However, I do not think he displaces Ellison as the starter. The most likely candidate to do that is rookie Nic Harris, who is having a solid preseason.

[Goobylal]

Good to know others are picking up on this also...from Chris Brown's blog:
___________________________________________________________

How is Alvin Bowen coming along? I know he had a good training camp last year but went down due to injury. Does he have any chance at starting over Ellison?
Thanks.
Kay

CB: Bowen is doing well. Since Ashlee Palmer suffered an ankle injury in the HOF game Bowen has moved up to the second unit at weak side LB behind Kawika Mitchell. However, I do not think he displaces Ellison as the starter. The most likely candidate to do that is rookie Nic Harris, who is having a solid preseason
If only Harris started over Ellison...

[BillsWin]

Well let's keep in mind what he did do not just what he didn't. I didn't watch him exclusively that night, but perhaps others can help me on plays they saw and liked from him.

- He tipped a pass that would have been a sure TD.

- I remember seeing him knocking the crap out of someone - might have been a RB on a run play. I just remember him leveling the guy...

- Overall, he just always seemed to be around the ball.

he knocked the crap out of the Bear's QB Hanie, and Vince Young. and he had a TFL on the Bear's runningback if im not mistaken. Anyone of those plays might have been the big hit you saw. the kid is gold.