Jimbo and Thurmal critique 09 Bills: Interesting comments.

[Mahdi]

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-9-199/Jim-Kelly-sees-win-or-else-season-for-Bills.html

The part about the dinking and dunking is right on the money.... Trent better realize he needs to make plays and not always rely on others to make plays out of 3 yard passes.

[Forward_Lateral]

I agree 100% that the no-huddle is slow. It's useless if you give the Defense time to rest.

[Mr. Pink]

Not going to make a career off dinking and dunking?

Maybe someone shoulda told Fran Tarkenton that when he started.

Or Tom Brady that til 2 years ago.

How about Joe Montana?

Just because the guy doesn't play the same way Kelly did doesn't mean he's less of a player and not able to succeed.

[billsfanone]

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-9-199/Jim-Kelly-sees-win-or-else-season-for-Bills.html

The part about the dinking and dunking is right on the money.... Trent better realize he needs to make plays and not always rely on others to make plays out of 3 yard passes.

Spot on.

[Forward_Lateral]

Here's a question, or maybe an observation, whatever. Why don't the offensive plays have the outlets running longer routes? Instead of running 2 yard routes, why not run 7 or 8 yard routes?

[bigbub2352]

I listened to alot of that live, they believe Trent needs to take more chances and they believe the Oline is a work in progress but there biggest concern and mine as well is the Dline and they are too small to hold up against the run
cant the FO see what everyone else does about Schobel, Denney Kelsay spencer johnson and Mccargo
it will be the same as last yr run on us when they want and all day to throw on 3rd down elch cant do the same things over and over again and expect different results no playoffs every yr means our players arent good enough UGH!

[billsfanone]

I was watching the Bills History DVD and noticed something clearly with Kelly. On long pass plays, the ball was put up long before the receiver was even open. He knew where the receivers were going to be and the receivers knew were to go.

[bigbub2352]

Here's a question, or maybe an observation, whatever. Why don't the offensive plays have the outlets running longer routes? Instead of running 2 yard routes, why not run 7 or 8 yard routes?
they do have them running deeper routes
trent misses them usually panics under the pressure of usually a good pass rush and dumps it off thank Turks plays for allowing adrian wilson to crush his pocket presence

[Forward_Lateral]

they do have them running deeper routes
trent misses them usually panics under the pressure of usually a good pass rush and dumps it off thank Turks plays for allowing adrian wilson to crush his pocket presence

This post makes no sense. If that was the case, he'd be hitting them in the back.

[Pinkerton Security]

I agree 100% that the no-huddle is slow. It's useless if you give the Defense time to rest.

isnt the point of an "outlet" someone that is an easy target and isnt far?

come on guys, why do you all think you know more than NFL coaches? Because you watch TV? Bc you played in HS? Get real.

[gil]

Not going to make a career off dinking and dunking?

Maybe someone shoulda told Fran Tarkenton that when he started.

Or Tom Brady that til 2 years ago.

How about Joe Montana?

Just because the guy doesn't play the same way Kelly did doesn't mean he's less of a player and not able to succeed.

That's what Thurman was saying - they did dink and dunk, but it turned into yardage, with the way these guys are doing it, there's no room or position for them to get YAC.

That's one thing we haven't had since Moulds is a good YAC guy, in my opinion.

[billsfanone]

isnt the point of an "outlet" someone that is an easy target and isnt far?

come on guys, why do you all think you know more than NFL coaches? Because you watch TV? Bc you played in HS? Get real.

Jim Kelly said it.

[bigbub2352]

This post makes no sense. If that was the case, he'd be hitting them in the back.
how doesnt it make sense?
ever since he got labeled he has been skitish in the pocket, it was turks scheme that allowed a guy to come in unblocked after that hapeened turk said the play is designed to let that guy in and trent has to get the ball off
sorry if that wasnt clear enough for u

[Mudflap1]

I'm actually okay with the whole dump off thing. Until Moss and Welker came along, Brady made a career out of it. However, the dump off strategy only works if you can run the ball effectively and play solid defense. The defense wasn't horrible last year, but needs to get better. And the running game needs to be consistent. This is where I agree with Kelly. Not every team (meaning this year's Bills) is going to play offense like the Bills in the 90s. That's fine, but if you are banking on high percentage plays that yield few mistakes but few big plays in your passing game, the other parts of the team need to play the same way.

However, I think the Bills are trying to be a little more aggressive with the passing game, hence the no-huddle and the acquisition of T.O. But, like I said, the other facets of the game need to be solid. Think of the Patriots pre-2007. They had a decent running game (good when Dillon was there) and a solid defense.

[Pinkerton Security]

Jim Kelly said it.

didnt mean the no huddle specifically, it is just reading things like "well why dont they do this" and "my god, why didnt he do that!"...

[ddaryl]

I agree about the dink and dunk is getting a little to comfortable for trent


but not making mistakes and keeping the chains moving, and keeping our D off the field and resting up is a definite HUGE positive.

if we run the no huddle 3 and out to often our D will get its ass kicked, therefore be careful what you wish for.

However I agree we need a little better downfield performance from Trent.. but that's what TO is here for.

[justasportsfan]

I agree with Jimbo with the coaching staff. they have to device schemes/ways to put players in situations to succeed. Although I don't think we had the talent to go all the way ever since Dick was here, I think we've had the talent to do better than 3 consecutive 7-9 seasons but the coaches held them back.

We have more than enough talent (except for the OL ) both at qb ,wr and a better rb stable than last years PATS. Difference, McDaniels knew what to do with the talent he had.

[justasportsfan]

Not going to make a career off dinking and dunking?

Maybe someone shoulda told Fran Tarkenton that when he started.

Or Tom Brady that til 2 years ago.

How about Joe Montana?

Just because the guy doesn't play the same way Kelly did doesn't mean he's less of a player and not able to succeed.

they dinked but like Thurman said they didn't go for 3-4 yards away. Montana dinked for 1st downs. Brady dinked for 1st down using screen plays. While that's not Trent fault, thats a coaching problem. Even Cassel dinked using screen plays for a bit until he got better.

[Typ0]

That's about where I'm at. I'd rather get seven first downs for 70 yards instead of one 70 yard play. I love the offense we have right now really. But I expect the whole philosophy is we are really going to be able to go for the juggler in the second half by making plays down field. They can't be that dumn not to be setting it up like this. Once the big plays downfield are there every defense will have to prepare for us different. It's going to happen soon and we are going to have one of the most destructive offenses in the league.


I agree about the dink and dunk is getting a little to comfortable for trent


but not making mistakes and keeping the chains moving, and keeping our D off the field and resting up is a definite HUGE positive.

if we run the no huddle 3 and out to often our D will get its ass kicked, therefore be careful what you wish for.

However I agree we need a little better downfield performance from Trent.. but that's what TO is here for.

[trapezeus]

i think with a serious receiving core, those dink and dunks will get more yards then last year. before, teams would just stack up and there would be no place to go. with two legit receivers pulling real secondary concerns, if ML or FJ get it just past the los and have to go one on one with aLB, i like the chances of getting more yards from that.

I also like that while inexperienced, smaller OL guys can get out there and block downfield.

It's all theory right now, but it could work.

It's the DL that is unchanged and potentiall in the same situation as it was last year.

[Typ0]

It's too bad we couldn't get anything done with the DLine this could be a very good football team.

[trapezeus]

as awful as the DL is, they stayed competitive in games last year. it was the offenses ineptness that tired them down and they'd give up touchdowns late in the game.

if the offense can show a little spunk perhaps they can survive a season on this weak line. But they'll have to become turnover oriented for it to really work.

[Mr. Pink]

they dinked but like Thurman said they didn't go for 3-4 yards away. Montana dinked for 1st downs. Brady dinked for 1st down using screen plays. While that's not Trent fault, thats a coaching problem. Even Cassel dinked using screen plays for a bit until he got better.


I guess Belichick had a coaching problem then.

Seeing he allowed both of those QBs to dink and dunk.

Montana threw TONS of screen plays to Craig and outlets, look at Roger Craig's catching stats. Most of the plays to Rice, Taylor, Clark were short passes that turned into long plays because of YAC.

The entire notion that our coaches are inept because they run plays that get balls in the playmakers hand quickly is completely idiotic.

[HHURRICANE]

Hey Jimbo, the league is a little different than it was 20 years ago. If you go back and watch the tape from 90s there are many times where I'm saying "you couldn't get away with that today."

Look at the play of the secondary's today.

[TigerJ]

Not going to make a career off dinking and dunking?

Maybe someone shoulda told Fran Tarkenton that when he started.

Or Tom Brady that til 2 years ago.

How about Joe Montana?

Just because the guy doesn't play the same way Kelly did doesn't mean he's less of a player and not able to succeed.You are right to a point. There are QBs who made almost a career of dink and dunk, though I think you're guilty of a little hyperbole. Tom Brady threw quite a few short passes early in his career, but he did have a few intermediate and long throws mixed in. Joe Montana was a west coast offense QB and didn't have the arm strength to throw much more than an intermediate pass on occasion, but I do remember Jerry Rice catching a few balls down field a ways. The point with Kelly's comment, I thought was that there are occasions when Trent has the opportunity to go down field, and checks down a little too quickly. I like Trent as a QB and I think he has pretty good athleticism to go with some smarts, but I have always felt that he needed to develop more of a feel for when to dump off and when to hold on to the ball for another half a second or so. In that sense he's almost the antithesis of JP Losman who never figured out that sometimes you have to get rid of the ball before you want to.

I don't think Trent will ever be the same kind of QB that Jim Kelly was, and that's OK. I think Trent will always tend to play with a little more discipline and a little less of the brash gunslinger attitude that Jim brought to the game, but that doesn't mean that Edwards shouldn't try to stretch his game a bit and learn to be more comfortable with playing a little more on the edge.

[Mahdi]

Not going to make a career off dinking and dunking?

Maybe someone shoulda told Fran Tarkenton that when he started.

Or Tom Brady that til 2 years ago.

How about Joe Montana?

Just because the guy doesn't play the same way Kelly did doesn't mean he's less of a player and not able to succeed.
As the article says... there is dinking and dunking for 7-15 yards and then there is the ton of completions Edwards makes for less than 5, those are not useful.

[yordad]

I think Kelly was 100 % right.
I agree 100% that the no-huddle is slow. It's useless if you give the Defense time to rest.Not always. look at Manning. He gets to the line in a hurry, then takes his time assessing the defense. Your also in position to take advantage of a substitution is it presents itself. And, when you take your time assessing, you catch them off guard a lot. These keep the defense from subbing, and you bang out some quick ones after you lull them to sleep.

How about Joe Montana?
Montana had the best YAC receiver of all time. Taylor was no slouch either. And again, those dinks weren't 2 yards, they were 8, and he was hitting receivers on the run, not posted up outlet RBs.
I was watching the Bills History DVD and noticed something clearly with Kelly. On long pass plays, the ball was put up long before the receiver was even open. He knew where the receivers were going to be and the receivers knew were to go.Anticipation should be a cerebral QBs strong suit. That is why Pennington is successful with his limited skills.


Let's remember, we got like one series with our shinny new WR. I would think he can get open, he can catch a slant, and he is one of the best ever YACers too. Trent may look like a different QB with TO on a regular basis.

[justasportsfan]

I guess Belichick had a coaching problem then.

Seeing he allowed both of those QBs to dink and dunk.

Montana threw TONS of screen plays to Craig and outlets, look at Roger Craig's catching stats. Most of the plays to Rice, Taylor, Clark were short passes that turned into long plays because of YAC.

The entire notion that our coaches are inept because they run plays that get balls in the playmakers hand quickly is completely idiotic.

uh, thats exactly what I said. They dinked and dunked to first downs. Thats what screen plays are. Throwing short but going for more yards after catches. How many of those did we call last year? Did our coaches even have that in their playbook? I doubt it, instead we tried to copy the wildcat in the middle of the season. Thats how imaginative our coaches were.

We hardly even called play action either. This O was so predictable that even Stevie Wonder could see it coming a mile away . Our coaches ran a basic/fundamental football early in the season but teams easily figured out Turk and made adjustments. Take Evans away and force Trent to dink for 5 yards.

[psubills62]

uh, thats exactly what I said. They dinked and dunked to first downs. Thats what screen plays are. Throwing short but going for more yards after catches. How many of those did we call last year? Did our coaches even have that in their playbook? I doubt it, instead we triedto copy the wildcat in the middle of the season. Thats how imaginative our coaches were.

We hardly even called play action either. This O was so predictable that even Stevie wonder could see it coming a mile away once they figured out Turk early in the season. Take Evans away and force Trent to dink for 5 yards.

The playaction and whatnot I completely agree on. However, I do remember multiple times when they called a screen play that would have gone for huge yards if Lynch hadn't dropped the ball or Edwards had been a little more accurate with his throw. There were several times when I felt extremely frustrated because it was so easy...Lynch just had to catch the ball and turn upfield with like 4 blockers and open space in front of him. But then he just dropped it.

[justasportsfan]

The playaction and whatnot I completely agree on. However, I do remember multiple times when they called a screen play that would have gone for huge yards if Lynch hadn't dropped the ball or Edwards had been a little more accurate with his throw. There were several times when I felt extremely frustrated because it was so easy...Lynch just had to catch the ball and turn upfield with like 4 blockers and open space in front of him. But then he just dropped it.

So you remember 1 play. Thats what Brady lived on. Teams knew they were going to run screen plays and yet no one could stop them

It's not hard to see we had horrible gameday adjustments both offensively and defensively and that falls on the coaches. Cassel was supposedly not going to get them anywhere just like Brady wasn't when Bledsoe went down.

Let me put it this way, the Pats could make Trent look 10X better than our coaches can by calling plays that will make him succeed.

I hope our coaches grow and learn . We have more than enough talent to succeed offensively. It's a matter of putting things together

[BillsWin]

AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! I just cant get a read on this team!!!! I cant tell if theyll be good or bad or just down right awful.

[Hemlepp53]

Outside of coming from two of the best to play in a Bills uniform one can agree to some extent but again they were comparing themselves to the 2009 roster. Big difference in just plain flat out talent. Our 2009 roster has some very good players and some very young players who are in developement stages that are showing flashes of greatness. I know Trent felt like he got kicked in the nuts. He knows the shadow he is walking in. He is aware of our expectations. I think Jim and Thomas could of been a bit more understanding of the situation. We do not have Marv on the sideline or key players in nearly every position. The teams those guys played with had so many players with Pro Bowl trips it was insane. I say same team with a new coaching staff who has a set of balls and a brain and we are sitting in the playoffs looking at a shot at the Super Bowl.... Just my thougts.. I hate seeing negitive **** from past star players towards players on the current roster....

[Syderick]

Joe Montana was a west coast offense QB and didn't have the arm strength to throw much more than an intermediate pass on occasion, but I do remember Jerry Rice catching a few balls down field a ways.
.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtN9jVoJPuw

[Akhippo]

I think they are past players that are true fans of the game and are just seeing what the majority of the rest of us see. He said what i see written on here all the time. Plus he has a real passion for the team. Just like most do for their hometown HS they might have played for, or college team. They just want them to succeed.

Our dink and dunk seems to be a RB swinging out of the backfield who is standing still. Most time the defender has a bead on him and it takes a great effort by the back to get yards. If I was a d coordinator i would love for all the passes to be non convoyed three yard passes.

The pats use the short game perfectly. You know its coming but you also know it can be a long pass downfield. Just that thought keeps the defense off guard. The Pats could run three straigt bubble screens, but the defense willl not cheat up because the next one could be over their head.

With us the defense just has to give a hint of coverage downfield; enough to get Trent to check down.

[jmb1099]

As the article says... there is dinking and dunking for 7-15 yards and then there is the ton of completions Edwards makes for less than 5, those are not useful.
not to be too silly, but 4 yard completions equate to first downs. Here is my hunch, and its only a hunch, but the no huddle we're seeing in preseason is a slowed down, practice version, of what we'll see come regular season. Think of it as the body shot in boxing, it doesn't look nearly as impressive as a haymaker to the head, but hit the body enough and the head shot will open. I agree with Typo on this that the first two quarters will be all about keeping opposing defenses on the field and wearing them out. The second half will be all about going in for the kill against tired defenders. Of course all of this is just theory that may amount to nothing, but so much is this time of year.

As far as Kelly's comments are concerned... they carry some weight without a doubt. But as HH pointed out, the game has changed drastically since the days of Kelly and company. I imagine he's tired fielding questions about this years no huddle and making comparisons etc. And while I am sure Jimbo is a fan, you have to know that if Edwards wins a Super Bowl with the no huddle... well salt in the wound never feels good and I am sure Kelly's superbowl loss wounds are still deep, he's only human. Anyway, I look forward to seeing how it all pans out and I really hope I'm not saying once again, "well there's always next year"

[Commissioner]

how doesnt it make sense?
ever since he got labeled he has been skitish in the pocket, it was turks scheme that allowed a guy to come in unblocked after that hapeened turk said the play is designed to let that guy in and trent has to get the ball off
sorry if that wasnt clear enough for u

Skittish in the pocket? I disagree... I've never felt that Trent was skittish....

That was JP Losman... doing 360 spins and turning his back to the defense and getting sacked.

Trents definitely not skittish.... he just gives up on routes too quick and decides to check down.

[Luisito23]

Kelly's right!

[Mr. Pink]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtN9jVoJPuw


Even in that video...."they've been critical about his ability to go deep."

Seems like he turned a pretty good career in off getting the ball into his playmakers hands.

[Meathead]

I agree 100% that the no-huddle is slow. It's useless if you give the Defense time to rest.isnt the point of an "outlet" someone that is an easy target and isnt far?

come on guys, why do you all think you know more than NFL coaches? Because you watch TV? Bc you played in HS? Get real.
quote fail

[Mahdi]

I listened to alot of that live, they believe Trent needs to take more chances and they believe the Oline is a work in progress but there biggest concern and mine as well is the Dline and they are too small to hold up against the run
cant the FO see what everyone else does about Schobel, Denney Kelsay spencer johnson and Mccargo
it will be the same as last yr run on us when they want and all day to throw on 3rd down elch cant do the same things over and over again and expect different results no playoffs every yr means our players arent good enough UGH!
Teams did not run on us all day last year.

We were very good at stopping the run in the first half of games. But at some point when your offense can't stay on the field and you are being run at all game its going to affect your ability to play run D.

That being said, they do still need to improve in that area and from the looks of it, in pre-season, they have. No one has run on them with any success yet.

Also, losing Schobel last year was a big loss for the run D.

[Mahdi]

I guess Belichick had a coaching problem then.

Seeing he allowed both of those QBs to dink and dunk.

Montana threw TONS of screen plays to Craig and outlets, look at Roger Craig's catching stats. Most of the plays to Rice, Taylor, Clark were short passes that turned into long plays because of YAC.

The entire notion that our coaches are inept because they run plays that get balls in the playmakers hand quickly is completely idiotic.
There's nothing wrong with dink and dunk. But way too often, Trent settles for a 1 or 2 yard pass to Lynch and once he catches it there are 2-3 players ready to hit him.

That tells me that there must have been a better play to be made somewhere else if they are keying on Lynch in the flat.

[trapezeus]

i don't know, i think dinking and dunking down field with a more spread out defense covering two all star receivers, a legitimate threat in Reed and possibly a good TE makes the 3-5 yard pass potentially go for more yards.

Also with smaller OL men out there, they can get to the blocks faster for screen passes.

Last year, they double covered lee evans, ran everyone else short, no real TE threat, of course it was very packed in the middle short with all the bodies.

I think Trent has taken shots at long balls before. so it's in him and something that's going to grow.

I still think there is some losman gleen left over where everyoen wants the long ball. give me long consistent drives for TDs than 3 long passes for TDs any day of the week. The consistency of an offense wears down other teams.

[Mahdi]

i don't know, i think dinking and dunking down field with a more spread out defense covering two all star receivers, a legitimate threat in Reed and possibly a good TE makes the 3-5 yard pass potentially go for more yards.

Also with smaller OL men out there, they can get to the blocks faster for screen passes.

Last year, they double covered lee evans, ran everyone else short, no real TE threat, of course it was very packed in the middle short with all the bodies.

I think Trent has taken shots at long balls before. so it's in him and something that's going to grow.

I still think there is some losman gleen left over where everyoen wants the long ball. give me long consistent drives for TDs than 3 long passes for TDs any day of the week. The consistency of an offense wears down other teams.
Long drives are great. But big plays charge up a team and can flip momentum.

[ddaryl]

AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! I just cant get a read on this team!!!! I cant tell if theyll be good or bad or just down right awful.


I have a feeling we are

D.) All of the above

[Mr. Pink]

Joe Montana's leading receiver in his first year starting? FB Earl Cooper.

Leading receiver in 1984 when the 49ers went 15-1? RB Roger Craig. 85 Craig. 87 Craig. 88 Craig.

Montana's career YPA 7.5

When the Vikings were a good team in the 70s, guess who their leading receiver was consistently? RB Chuck Foreman.

Tarkenton's career YPA 7.3

Edwards as of now, 6.7

The funny part is that Losman was lower than Edwards at 6.6

Apparently other teams can execute with a RB being the main option in the passing offense. But when it comes to us, the problem isn't the talent, it's always the coaching or Trent had something better but missed it.

To throw in another name...Tom Brady career YPA 7.2 and that's with an 8.3 number 2 years ago.

Hell John Elways YPA was 7.1 over his career.

Oh yeah, seeing I've seen in this thread over and over that the 1, 2 yard receptions don't get it done and we need more 7, 8 yard receptions right? Trent Edwards yard per completion....10.9

Guess that kills that theory, huh?

But, this dink and dunking stuff cannot work, can it?

[yordad]

Apparently other teams can execute with a RB being the main option in the passing offense. But when it comes to us, the problem isn't the talent, it's always the coaching or Trent had something better but missed it.

Oh yeah, seeing I've seen in this thread over and over that the 1, 2 yard receptions don't get it done and we need more 7, 8 yard receptions right? Trent Edwards yard per completion....10.9

Guess that kills that theory, huh?

But, this dink and dunking stuff cannot work, can it?So, what is your point? Your point is that it isn't coaching, it isn't the QB, it isn't talent,... it isn't anything?

If anyone missed the point it is you. The point is there are options downfield, Trent just doesn't take them as often as he should. The additional point is, sometimes he checks down too fast. Like when he has protection, and a deeper route is about to materialize.

[Mr. Pink]

So, what is your point? Your point is that it isn't coaching, it isn't the QB, it isn't talent,... it isn't anything?

If anyone missed the point it is you. The point is there are options downfield, Trent just doesn't take them as often as he should. The additional point is, sometimes he checks down too fast. Like when he has protection, and a deeper route is about to materialize.

We already know what your point is...what Trent does, while consistent, isn't sexy. You're about the sexy factor. You proved that time again with your Pro-Losman/Anti-Edwards bias.

The point is, up until this year, this team had 1 offensive weapon. ONE. Lee Evans.

And no, a RB who has poor hands, isn't a legitimate weapon. Fred Jackson is a much better fit for this offense the way it's run than Lynch. Nobody wants to admit to it though.

Now we have 2 weapons. Unfortunately, that's likely only going to last a year.

You put better players around Trent, or players who are more suited for the system, you'll have better results.

Didn't I prove by his numbers that what he's doing is plenty good enough to succeed in this league?

[TigerJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtN9jVoJPuw

By my calculations, that one went about 53 yards through the air, a little further than I thought Montana could throw. It did prove my point, that even a west coast QB like Montana went downfield on occasion. Thanks.

[trapezeus]

agreed, big plays are momentum changers, but they aren't the bread and butter that you should rely on.

How many big plays, (+40yard plays) occur each week? i'd guess maybe at most 20. 2 plays a game (one for each team). It is hardly reason to design an offense solely around the big play.

Like war, football is about taking what you can get and striking when the opportunity is right.

[bigbub2352]

Teams did not run on us all day last year.

We were very good at stopping the run in the first half of games. But at some point when your offense can't stay on the field and you are being run at all game its going to affect your ability to play run D.

That being said, they do still need to improve in that area and from the looks of it, in pre-season, they have. No one has run on them with any success yet.

Also, losing Schobel last year was a big loss for the run D.

thats called being out coached

[Akhippo]

Would you be happy if Trent became another Brad Johnson? Safe, reliable, not flashy, but eventually if the team is built right won a superbowl.

[Mahdi]

thats called being out coached
Dont see at all what that has to do with coaching.

[bigbub2352]

Dont see at all what that has to do with coaching.
Easy
When your Offensive cordinator cant devise a ball controlled offense and the playcalling is terrible then teams 3 and out u all day hence being out coached every week
When u stop the run in the first half, then the team makes adjustments and can run on u in the 2nd half and ur coach doesnt change anything up hence being outcoached
i guess that didnt happen when we lost 7 our of our last 9 games
u can add all the talent in the world onto this roster the coaching staff will be the demise of this team

[Captain gameboy]

I get really tired of listening to Kelly.

Thurman, on the other hand, I listen to.

Same as back in the day when Thurman called Kelly out.

Thurman was right.

Either way, give a mike to either of them and you get what you get.

Frankly, I find it tiring.

They had a good run, but they lost games they should not have lost because of a lack of smarts and really big egos.

[feldspar]

That's what Thurman was saying - they did dink and dunk, but it turned into yardage, with the way these guys are doing it, there's no room or position for them to get YAC.

That's one thing we haven't had since Moulds is a good YAC guy, in my opinion.

I've been saying it for quite some time...the Bills need to learn how to set up a screen pass...pull guards and stuff like that...get some guys ahead of the receiver to block. They seem incapable of even trying it very often.

[trapezeus]

GB couldn't agree more. Thurman should have been run into the ground in superbowl 25. He was on fire and they still passed way too much. That game should have been a blow out with how hot that first half was.

I still secretly blame the NFL for putting us in the all white's for that superbowl. That is such an ugly look for us. I like the blue's.

[yordad]

We already know what your point is...what Trent does, while consistent, isn't sexy. You're about the sexy factor. You proved that time again with your Pro-Losman/Anti-Edwards bias.

The point is, up until this year, this team had 1 offensive weapon. ONE. Lee Evans.

And no, a RB who has poor hands, isn't a legitimate weapon. Fred Jackson is a much better fit for this offense the way it's run than Lynch. Nobody wants to admit to it though.

Now we have 2 weapons. Unfortunately, that's likely only going to last a year.

You put better players around Trent, or players who are more suited for the system, you'll have better results.

Didn't I prove by his numbers that what he's doing is plenty good enough to succeed in this league?Well, go ahead and be anti-Lynch, but don't put your words in my mouth. I am PRO-EDWARDS. Considering he is the starting QB on my favorite team, it was an easy decision.

And, since we are talking about QBS, on our favorite team, how is Anderson and your other QBs doing?

[Captain gameboy]

GB couldn't agree more. Thurman should have been run into the ground in superbowl 25. He was on fire and they still passed way too much. That game should have been a blow out with how hot that first half was.


Parcells plan was an exploitation of Kelly's ego.

If we run from the 12-3 lead we mercyrule them, (how hard is that for me to say?).

Parcells rolled the dice and beat Kelly's ego.

[Throne Logic]

Two points that prevent me from putting too much concern over the last game. First of all, TO wasn't playing. That dramatically changes the D's position.

Would you hold onto the ball for an extended period time in a preseason game when your best WR is not playing and your offensive line has exactly one game under their collective and individual belts in a new fast passed system?

Give it time.

[justasportsfan]

Joe Montana's leading receiver in his first year starting? FB Earl Cooper.

Leading receiver in 1984 when the 49ers went 15-1? RB Roger Craig. 85 Craig. 87 Craig. 88 Craig.

Montana's career YPA 7.5

When the Vikings were a good team in the 70s, guess who their leading receiver was consistently? RB Chuck Foreman.

Tarkenton's career YPA 7.3

Edwards as of now, 6.7

The funny part is that Losman was lower than Edwards at 6.6

Apparently other teams can execute with a RB being the main option in the passing offense. But when it comes to us, the problem isn't the talent, it's always the coaching or Trent had something better but missed it.

To throw in another name...Tom Brady career YPA 7.2 and that's with an 8.3 number 2 years ago.

Hell John Elways YPA was 7.1 over his career.

Oh yeah, seeing I've seen in this thread over and over that the 1, 2 yard receptions don't get it done and we need more 7, 8 yard receptions right? Trent Edwards yard per completion....10.9

Guess that kills that theory, huh?

But, this dink and dunking stuff cannot work, can it?

It didn't work last year did it? Trying to compare our dink and dunk to Monatanas,Bady's etc is idiotic. Their dinks and dunkswere desgined plays. We dinked and dunked as check downs.

[Mr. Pink]

It's only idiotic in your opinion, because those offenses worked with check downs and quick pass plays.

Meanwhile ours doesn't due to lack of playmakers.

Or in your opinion, coaching.

[Buffalogic]

Schonert has a lot of pressure on him. There were a lot of playcalls last year that made me go wtf! Hopefully he doesn't think too much because when it's second and one I don't want to see two straight pass plays like last year...

[justasportsfan]

It's only idiotic in your opinion, because those offenses worked with check downs and quick pass plays.

Meanwhile ours doesn't due to lack of playmakers.

Or in your opinion, coaching.
they were not checkdowns. They were designed plays. We checkdown. Go argue with guys that played the game like kelly and Thurm.