Using Maybin and a 3-4 alignment

[DesertFox24]

I read somewhere a couple of weeks ago that the defense had some ideas about using Maybin as a rush LB in some packages.

Does this mean the bills might try to implement a 3-4 hybrid alignment for a couple of snaps a game.

A lot of teams are doing this year with the Jags being one of them. You could see Harvey and Groves line up as rush LBs and just get after it.

This would be an interesting way to get after Brady and offer something different to look at.

I guess the DL would be Schobel or Kelsay at RE, Williams at NT, and Stroud as the LE.

[casdhf]

I think Denney would have to be subbed in at RE. Schobel would get plowed over.

[DraftBoy]

3-4 alignment with this defense scares me to be honest.

[Lexwhat]

3-4 alignment with this defense scares me to be honest.

Our pass rush scares me on every play...

[Mahdi]

I think Denney would have to be subbed in at RE. Schobel would get plowed over.
I think it would be:


Stroud - McCargo - Johnson with Maybin and Ellis at OLB and Poz and Mitchell at ILB.

[casdhf]

I think Schobel would rush from outside instead of Ellis. Either way, it'd be interesting to see if it works.

[DraftBoy]

I think it would be:


Stroud - McCargo - Johnson with Maybin and Ellis at OLB and Poz and Mitchell at ILB.

If that's the alignment Id run up the middle every play.

[justasportsfan]

maybin will most likely be aligned with 3-4 people beside him on the bench

[Mahdi]

If that's the alignment Id run up the middle every play.
McCargo, Stroud and Johnson are very good run defenders. The only obstacle would be learning the techniques as a unit.

That being said, if used it wont be used as our base defense. It would be a pass rush package. Stroud, McCargo and Johnson are our best penetrators and Maybin and Ellis our top speed rushers/athletes.

[ddaryl]

If that's the alignment Id run up the middle every play.


why would you run up the middle every play... Do you really feel we can't protect the middle of the DL with 3 DT's one of them an ALL_PRO

I think there would be much better ways to expose this alignment then running it in the middle.. Like maybe short passes to RB's and TE's that our DE's in a LB position couldn't cover. Then when our DB's cheat up expose them long

[Mahdi]

why would you run up the middle every play... Do you really feel we can't protect the middle of the DL with 3 DT's one of them an ALL_PRO

I think there would be much better ways to expose this alignment then running it in the middle.. Like maybe short passes to RB's and TE's that our DE's in a LB position couldn't cover. Then when our DB's cheat up expose them long
I would much rather see us use a package like the Giants use.

For example on 3rd down we could sent out Maybin, Schobel, Ellis and Bryan to rush the passer.

Not as impressive as Tuck, Kiwanuka, Osi, and Canty. But its the best we got.

[DraftBoy]

McCargo, Stroud and Johnson are very good run defenders. The only obstacle would be learning the techniques as a unit.

That being said, if used it wont be used as our base defense. It would be a pass rush package. Stroud, McCargo and Johnson are our best penetrators and Maybin and Ellis our top speed rushers/athletes.


McCargo as a NT would be a very bold and imo stupid decision. He's not a hold up at POA DT in any regard. He's more of a penetrator. We don't have a DT on this roster except Stroud who can really hold up at POA and take on consistent doubles. being a good 4-3 run D DT is one thing, but changing schemes, assignments, and gaps is not easy and you are making it sound like.

[ddaryl]

I would much rather see us use a package like the Giants use.

For example on 3rd down we could sent out Maybin, Schobel, Ellis and Bryan to rush the passer.

Not as impressive as Tuck, Kiwanuka, Osi, and Canty. But its the best we got.



Well I don't disagree there.. My comment was just the running up the middle with the example posted above. I would think teams would avoid the stacked middle and expose the other weaknesses that formation would probably cause

[EDS]

I think it would be:


Stroud - McCargo - Johnson with Maybin and Ellis at OLB and Poz and Mitchell at ILB.

I would think Stroud would be the NT, with McCargo (if he proves he can play) and Johnson at end, with Schobel and Maybin at OLB. Might as well put the best run stuffer in the middle.

[trapezeus]

i like the idea. give us the high motor guys on the outside and back with the LB's? then take out ellison who is fairly useless to begin with. So i'm ok with this. if it works, let's do it, if not, then there isn't really any solution other than to put crazy points up on the board until we can draft and pick a couple free agents up.

[EDS]

I would much rather see us use a package like the Giants use.

For example on 3rd down we could sent out Maybin, Schobel, Ellis and Bryan to rush the passer.

Not as impressive as Tuck, Kiwanuka, Osi, and Canty. But its the best we got.

Big difference having 290 lb studs like Tuck and Canty in the middle rushing the passer versus 250 lbers.

[yordad]

I'm thinking 3-4 a couple times a game wouldn't be bad. In the least, it would give opposition more to think about.

[yordad]

If Maybin is one of the top 7 front 7 players on the team, then I say we try to find was to get him out there, and take Ellison out. But, a more likey, and almost as good option, is taking out Kelsey.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Stroud - McCargo - Johnson with Maybin and Ellis at OLB and Poz and Mitchell at ILB.

Kyle Williams would most certainly be in there. I do think Stroud could anchor the NT cause he demands double teams. Kyle is a perfect 3-4 d end.

[patmoran2006]

Kyle Williams would most certainly be in there. I do think Stroud could anchor the NT cause he demands double teams. Kyle is a perfect 3-4 d end.
Agreed.. HE's like a Justin Bannon (who's played very well with Baltimore)

[Mahdi]

McCargo as a NT would be a very bold and imo stupid decision. He's not a hold up at POA DT in any regard. He's more of a penetrator. We don't have a DT on this roster except Stroud who can really hold up at POA and take on consistent doubles. being a good 4-3 run D DT is one thing, but changing schemes, assignments, and gaps is not easy and you are making it sound like.
This whole thread was about using the 3-4 as a form of PASS RUSH. NOT A BASE DEFENSE.... We're not going to use it on 1st and 10 or 2nd and 2.

So not having a prototype 3-4 NT in passing situations is not a big deal.

[Mahdi]

Big difference having 290 lb studs like Tuck and Canty in the middle rushing the passer versus 250 lbers.
Agreed. Which is why I said its not as impressive as what the Giants have.

However, I would use at least 1 DT in that mix like Stroud, S. Johnson who has good speed or maybe even McCargo.

[DraftBoy]

This whole thread was about using the 3-4 as a form of PASS RUSH. NOT A BASE DEFENSE.... We're not going to use it on 1st and 10 or 2nd and 2.

So not having a prototype 3-4 NT in passing situations is not a big deal.

You keep thinking that Im talking about as a base D for some odd reason though Ive never once mentioned it.

If it's 3rd and 7, Im spreading the field, knowing you got a light ass in the middle and likely dropping Mitchell and Poz into coverage and running a quick draw right at them. Its 3 OL blocking 1 DT and 2 LB, I love my odds of getting 7 yards then.

Even if you blitz Mitchell and/or Poz is still 3 on 3, thus the issue with McCargo as a NT. He doesnt take up two blockers and the NT basically has to do at least that.

[Mahdi]

You keep thinking that Im talking about as a base D for some odd reason though Ive never once mentioned it.

If it's 3rd and 7, Im spreading the field, knowing you got a light ass in the middle and likely dropping Mitchell and Poz into coverage and running a quick draw right at them. Its 3 OL blocking 1 DT and 2 LB, I love my odds of getting 7 yards then.

Even if you blitz Mitchell and/or Poz is still 3 on 3, thus the issue with McCargo as a NT. He doesnt take up two blockers and the NT basically has to do at least that.
DB... both Pittsburgh and San Diego take out Casey Hampton and Jamaal Williams on 3rd and 7 and go with the lighter DL players to rush the passer. So your point is irrelevant.

For example... Pittsburgh on 3rd down use Aaron Smith, Kirshke, and either Keisel or Eason. Then they get Woodley and Harrison off the edge and their MLBs doing watever.

All 4 of their 3rd down DL players are just about 300 pounds or less even.

So how is it easier to run on Stroud, Johnson, and McCargo then it is to run on Kirshke, Keisel and Smith?

The only thing is that they are accustomed to the scheme more, other than that there is no difference weight wise. So its a moot point.

Also if we force a team to run on 3rd and 7, thats a win for the defense because the percentages are not in their favor.

[OpIv37]

we don't have a true NT and our DE's are about 20 lbs underweight for a 3-4.

I don't even like the idea of playing Maybin at OLB in a 4-3 because I think it makes the blitz too predictable (and if he drops into a C2 zone, any QB with half a brain is going to know who to pick on). However, if they want to try it to take advantage of Maybin's speed on the pass rush, they're far better of doing it from the 4-3 than the 3-4.

This team will get bowled over in a 3-4, even if it's just a handful of plays. We just don't have the personnel for it. Then again, we don't really have the personnel for a Cover 2 either, but we're a lot closer to that than we are for a 3-4.

[colin]

DB... both Pittsburgh and San Diego take out Casey Hampton and Jamaal Williams on 3rd and 7 and go with the lighter DL players to rush the passer. So your point is irrelevant.

For example... Pittsburgh on 3rd down use Aaron Smith, Kirshke, and either Keisel or Eason. Then they get Woodley and Harrison off the edge and their MLBs doing watever.

All 4 of their 3rd down DL players are just about 300 pounds or less even.

So how is it easier to run on Stroud, Johnson, and McCargo then it is to run on Kirshke, Keisel and Smith?

The only thing is that they are accustomed to the scheme more, other than that there is no difference weight wise. So its a moot point.

Also if we force a team to run on 3rd and 7, thats a win for the defense because the percentages are not in their favor.

don't bother dude, half of these guys think it's madden and you can just run on a passing down and since the run stuffing stats of the guy in the middle aren't high enough you'll convert.

you're 100% right by the way, if the 34 works for the bills it will be basically a 5 man front with quicker guys, maybe poz and maybin lined up close at LB and schoble johsnon and KW all getting up the field.

the giants, colts, and chicago have had some great success with this kind of line up, but dont' mention them either. THE EXPERTS HERE CAN NEVER BE WRONG!

[Mahdi]

we don't have a true NT and our DE's are about 20 lbs underweight for a 3-4.

I don't even like the idea of playing Maybin at OLB in a 4-3 because I think it makes the blitz too predictable (and if he drops into a C2 zone, any QB with half a brain is going to know who to pick on). However, if they want to try it to take advantage of Maybin's speed on the pass rush, they're far better of doing it from the 4-3 than the 3-4.

This team will get bowled over in a 3-4, even if it's just a handful of plays. We just don't have the personnel for it. Then again, we don't really have the personnel for a Cover 2 either, but we're a lot closer to that than we are for a 3-4.
Man,,,, do you read the other posts...

Using the 3-4 would only be in passing situations... and current 3-4 teams TAKE OUT their true NT on 3rd down anyways so there is virtually NO DIFFERENCE in weight between us and any other team running the 3-4.

[methos4ever]

I don't think it would be a true 3-4 alignment but rather a more effective utilization of his "creep" defense.

[Mahdi]

I don't think it would be a true 3-4 alignment but rather a more effective utilization of his "creep" defense.
I agree. I think it will just be using a 4-3 base but maybe Maybin comes off the edge as a LB standing up. That would free up other guys or just give Maybin the advantage of standing up.

[DraftBoy]

DB... both Pittsburgh and San Diego take out Casey Hampton and Jamaal Williams on 3rd and 7 and go with the lighter DL players to rush the passer. So your point is irrelevant.

For example... Pittsburgh on 3rd down use Aaron Smith, Kirshke, and either Keisel or Eason. Then they get Woodley and Harrison off the edge and their MLBs doing watever.

All 4 of their 3rd down DL players are just about 300 pounds or less even.

So how is it easier to run on Stroud, Johnson, and McCargo then it is to run on Kirshke, Keisel and Smith?

The only thing is that they are accustomed to the scheme more, other than that there is no difference weight wise. So its a moot point.

Also if we force a team to run on 3rd and 7, thats a win for the defense because the percentages are not in their favor.

You analyzed Pittsburghs and San Diego's plays from last year, because that's incredibly fast analyzation...

My point is not just on the NT however, that's just point 1. However since you didnt check other teams depth charts when making your point about McCargo coming in, Ill be happy to continue with this. Here are San Diego, Dallas, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh #2 NT who comes in on 3rd down, as you say;
San Deigo-Ian Scott-6'3, 315
Dallas-Junior Savaii-6'5, 320
Cleveland-Antyoh Rubin-6'2, 330
Pittsburgh-Chris Hoke-6'2, 305
Buffalo-John McCargo-6'2, 305

Now I knwo you'll cling to McCargo and Hoke being the same weight but Hoke is a proven 3-4 NT with great help around him, and McCargo is not proven nor does he have any kind of proven 3-4 help around him. We can hope wish and pray all we want but the reality is that we have the personell for a C2 Defense, not a 3-4.

[OpIv37]

Man,,,, do you read the other posts...

Using the 3-4 would only be in passing situations... and current 3-4 teams TAKE OUT their true NT on 3rd down anyways so there is virtually NO DIFFERENCE in weight between us and any other team running the 3-4.

Yes there is. Our regular personnel is undersized even for a 4-3, and what about the DE's? 3-4 DE's outweigh our DE's by a good 20 lbs. Even if we have the right size DT we're still screwed on DE's.

Running any kind of 3-4 with our current personnel is ****ing stupid. A few teams have had success with it recently so it's trendy now, but those teams have the personnel to run it. Believe me, if we **** up this season and end up cleaning house, I'll be the first one clamoring to get a 3-4 DC and the right personnel to run it. But this thought that we can run a 3-4 after adding a 235 lb rookie DE is just insane.

[kid mickey]

Buffalo needs a defensive line overhaul. Next year in the draft Buffalo should look at DE's with size. Let Schobel, Kelsay, Denney walk. Draft big DE's like Greg Romeus and Greg Hardy. If you have an opportunity to get Gerald McCoy don't pass on him, a nice rush linebacker can be gotten in Jermaine Cunningham in the mid-rounds. Buffalo needs to focus on making the best defensive fronts in football if they want to succeed. In order to do all that they need guys with size and strength and a good first step. Give me DE's that are 6'5 275 lbs. I want those guys. Give me DT's that are 6'4 320 lbs. Give me rush LB's that are 240 lbs. Buffalo needs change. This team could be so good if they had a big nasty DL.