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View Full Version : Bills vs Packers: My takes on the game



yordad
08-24-2009, 04:45 PM
Oh my. The Bills starting offense looked straight up horrible against a 3-4.... again. They have to do more to prepare for it, even if it means running against it in practice every freakin day til the Pats game.

Despite the absence of Owens again, and despite the fact the TV has McIntyre listed a FB starter, the Bills actually opened with 3 wide. Parrish was in the slot. Three wide seems to be our base offense, and it was used on the next play too.

Trent was holding the ball longer then usual. Almost like he heard Jim’s comments about him checking down too fast. Too bad it got him sacked twice, and on one painful play he fumbled. I think he held it for a 6 count on that one.

Trent holding the ball longer combined with some pretty crappy blocking put the Bills in a big time hole. Hangartner was missing some calls down there. I know this is the first time 2 of these guys seen a live NFL 3-4 defense, and Hangartner has to do a better job making sure these guys know their assignments. Some of them looked lost out there.

The Bills starting defense got zero pressure. I think it is time for a lineup change. On the plays were I was paying closer attention, I seen Williams getting manhandled one-on-one by a center. This left Schobel to be double teamed. Kelsey was did absolutely nothing. And, if Denney played, I didn’t even notice him, so I don’t know he was credited with a tackle.

On the other hand, our second string D-line looked kind of beastly. Johnson, McCargo, Ellis, and Bryan were all applying pressure. Good pressure. McCargo caused a fumble. Bryan caused a fumble. Johnson was penetrating nicely. Ellis looked aggressive (maybe even too aggressive since he drew a horse collar while out of bounds,lol). At least one of these guys deserves a chance with the starters. I vote Copeland Bryan over Kelsey. Maybe even McCargo over Williams. I’m not joking, something has to change.

There were a number of bad calls, or non-calls. Edwards int was a pass interference. I know he was very slow on the delivery, but early contact IS early. It was a PI, not that it absolves Edwards. That ball has to come out faster. Another play Schobel was called for lining up in the neutral zone, when he wasn’t in the neutral zone. Rewatch that play if you can. I have no idea how a ref screws that up since he is standing right on the line.

At one point Langston walker was called for a phantom hold. On the play he is driving his guy downfield, and the guy throws his hands in the air. He wasn’t being held, he was being manhandled. But, his act job drew the flag. Walker was visible pissed. A play or two later Jackson got a screen, and Walker let up on his block. No doubt the phantom hold was still in his mind. The guy he would have been driving into the ground is the guy who got the lucky forced fumble on Jackson.

Speaking of Jackson as a receiver. He looks much more fluid out there as a receiving option then Lynch does.

Bryan Scott looked horrible. That sucks too, I had hopes of him being a much better starter then Ko. If it wasn’t for one batted pass on a blitz, he played completely horrible.

Corner looked pretty darn good out there.

Harris the LB is a straight up beast. 100% he should start over Ellison. No doubt though, that one stop Ellison made (his first in like a year), will be the only play Fewell remembers. Harris is way freaking better. He was everywhere. He led the team in tackles, and even accidentally broke a dudes leg. Dang that was gruesome. Ewww. Harris should not only start over Ellsion, he should also replace Mitchell as the second LB in the nickel package.

McIntyre, although seemingly no longer a FB, definitely looks like a bruiser with that football in his hands. Where was he as an option last year? He has totally surprised me. And seems to be getting half-back reps over Omon.

Stupar is the freakin man. The dude leads the entire team in receptions. And, it isn’t like he is lumbering out there, or catching with his pads. He is showing some steed and agility. His hands where a huge surprise to me. I am now convinced the Bills keep 4 Tight ends.

Man, Hall got blasted on the one punt, drawing a 15 yard penalty. And, there was several times this preseason where I was like “why isn’t that dude making a fair catch?” But, I guess he is trying his best to impress out there. Anyways, the next punt after he got whacked he had plenty of room top roam, but he fair caught it. I guess he still had the last play in his mind, lol.

Steve Johnson looked good on his limited opportunities. He also was gunner a few times, and did fairly well. I am pretty sure he just took Justin Jenkins job, and will force him off the roster. Sorry Jenkins. L

This wasn’t Lankster’s best game. I hope he rebounds, I am rooting for him.

My final note: Steve Tasker sucks as an announcer. I disagreed with him many times, as did he fellow announcer who was doing his best not to tell Tasker he was wrong.

Thoughts?

The Juice Is Loose
08-24-2009, 11:33 PM
I agree with most of what you said. And it does always seem like we get hosed by the zebras. But this not being prepared for a 3-4 stuff is just overwhelming to me.

It's over whelming that Trent would say we weren't ready for what they threw at as and its absolutely heartbreaking that we can't hold up against a 3-4 at all.

We have enough experience at this point that you should expect a team to be able to handle it. Why don't other teams crumble when they play the 34? The Jags Giants Colts Eagles Redskins Niners Vikings BuccaneersTitans and Ravens all run a 43, yet when they play 34 teams they don't look lost. Why?

Basically, I feel this team has a ton of talent. Trent, he'll show us one way or another this season. So, if he sucks its almost good, because it'll buy us new coaches, which is what I think we need most.

If we can't prepare against a 34 we may as well just switch to running it so we can practice against it. If you can't beat em, join em. We have personell to do it and if we did it, I'd all of a sudden think Maybin was the right pick.

The good news is I had my fantasy draft last night and the Klem Road Kocks are LOOOOADED!!!!!!!!

lordofgun
08-25-2009, 07:19 AM
It is beyond belief that we are clueless against the 3-4. Or maybe it's a master plan to dupe the pats into thinking we suck against it. Yeah, that's it.

DraftBoy
08-25-2009, 07:39 AM
I disagree on the Schobel NZinfraction and the PI call, both were correctly called in the game.

I think you saw more McIntyre than Omon in the game because Omon sat out most of last week from practice so the staff may have been being a little more careful with him.

Other than that, a pretty good assessment.

madness
08-25-2009, 08:34 AM
It is beyond belief that we are clueless against the 3-4. Or maybe it's a master plan to dupe the pats into thinking we suck against it. Yeah, that's it.

I don't think we're exactly clueless. The Packers game was just an example of being broadsided. The Packers D came in disguising coverages and sending blitzes from every angle. All though it's not a valid excuse, the Bills need to face the fact that more and more coaches feel they need to prove a point in preseason by going all out. Preseason use to be about more about evaluating talent and getting players comfortable within the scheme and less about doing everything to win a meaningless game.

The Bills need to follow suit or get left behind the curve once again.

madness
08-25-2009, 08:37 AM
I disagree on the Schobel NZinfraction and the PI call, both were correctly called in the game.

I think you saw more McIntyre than Omon in the game because Omon sat out most of last week from practice so the staff may have been being a little more careful with him.

Other than that, a pretty good assessment.

Schobel's head was definitely over the ball but that wasn't the problem. The refs completely missed an false start/illegal procedure call on Nelson which should have been called first.

RLand
08-25-2009, 08:51 AM
I don't think we're exactly clueless. The Packers game was just an example of being broadsided. The Packers D came in disguising coverages and sending blitzes from every angle. All though it's not a valid excuse, the Bills need to face the fact that more and more coaches feel they need to prove a point in preseason by going all out. Preseason use to be about more about evaluating talent and getting players comfortable within the scheme and less about doing everything to win a meaningless game.

The Bills need to follow suit or get left behind the curve once again.

You have to remember that teams don't do a lot of gameplanning for pre-season games. The Packers are switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4, so of course they will run stunts and blitzes to make sure their team understands their assignments prior to the season (and the Bills weren't ready for it). Most other teams that have been running the same system for a while won't run a lot of special packages during pre-season. The Packers are because they're learning... it's just unfortunate the Bills were the ones to look silly because of it.

Now if the Pats make the Bills look that silly in week 1, then the gloves will need to come off...

yordad
08-25-2009, 08:58 AM
Schobel's head was definitely over the ball but that wasn't the problem. The refs completely missed an false start/illegal procedure call on Nelson which should have been called first.I guess I didn't really have the angle on Schobel's head. I just looked at where his hand was on the ground compared to the yard marker. Then again, after looking at the buzzed up notes I took I think I was trying to write something about the guy moving toward the LOS as the ball was snapped.

yordad
08-25-2009, 08:59 AM
You have to remember that teams don't do a lot of gameplanning for pre-season games. The Packers are switching from a 4-3 to a 3-4, so of course they will run stunts and blitzes to make sure their team understands their assignments prior to the season (and the Bills weren't ready for it). Most other teams that have been running the same system for a while won't run a lot of special packages during pre-season. The Packers are because they're learning... it's just unfortunate the Bills were the ones to look silly because of it.

Now if the Pats make the Bills look that silly in week 1, then the gloves will need to come off...Good point, new guy!

bflojohn
08-25-2009, 12:20 PM
A couple of thoughts about Saturday.... The Packers are a very good club! I'd scout that tape for some of their cuts upcoming in September, especially on the defensive line! The early view was a distinct need to protect the football, holy cow, there were two or three instances where they nearly lost the ball, besides the actual turnovers. I really think that the Bills lack playmakers on defense and it becomes painfully obvious when playing teams that can "light it up" on offense, like the Packers ( Patriots opening week?? ). On Trent's INT, the defender clearly made contact early and it should have been deemed interference on Nick Collins. That one I can forgive Trent for, however, the lack of sound technique protecting the football around the goalline is NOT forgivable!! The dimension T.O. will provide is really becoming a questionable issue because his absence is hurting the timing and continuity of the offense (not his fault). Overall, the depth (second half) is looking pretty good to me, so if the Bills sustain injuries, they may weather those storms more readily with the backups contributing well.

yordad
08-25-2009, 02:48 PM
Anyone has thoughts on not only replacing Ellison with Harris as a starter, but also replace Mitchell with him in the nickel?

And, and anyone see that dudes foot flopping around on that one tackle? Ouch!!

Beastie Bills
08-26-2009, 10:05 AM
Very good post. I agree with pretty much every single point. The holding call against Walker REALLY ticked me off, as did the PI on Trent's pick (but you're right, he should have thrown the ball sooner). I disagree on the Schobel call. His head was past the end of the ball.

I agree that Copeland should get a shot with the starters. He's looked great against 2nd stringers, so we should get him in there against the 1st stringers this week to see if he can perform. Might as well do it in the pre-season.

One note on Steve Johnson, he had a great play in Punt Coverage. He drove his man into the punt returner (which is legal), in an attempt to cause a muffed catch. Great heads-up play.

I agree on Stupar and Reggie Corner looking good as well.

Perhaps the thing I agree with the most, is Tasker. Tasker is one of my all-time favorite players, but he is the absolute worst commentator I've ever heard. I just can't believe how bad he is. He constantly mis-pronounces players names, or calls them the wrong player (#22 is Fred Jackson, not Lynch numbnuts). The best was Robert Royal. Tasker always called him Royale, as in Royale with Cheese. Wtf. And he just sounds dumb. He sounds like he has no idea what the heck he's talking about. As you can see, I'm probably more annoyed than I should be, but it really makes me mad to see one of my favorite players embarassing himself every week. When he's calling a game, I have to seriously consider muting the TV and listening on the radio instead.

mysticsoto
08-26-2009, 01:35 PM
Anyone has thoughts on not only replacing Ellison with Harris as a starter, but also replace Mitchell with him in the nickel?

And, and anyone see that dudes foot flopping around on that one tackle? Ouch!!

Mitchell had a bad game, but some veterans don't play 100% in the preseason - I'm not ready to give up on him yet. Even if I was, I don't think we have someone better to replace him with.

I do want Fine replaced by Stupar though...and I think I want Corner at the Nickel.

I'd like to see Maybin, Bryan and Ellis with the starters to gauge how they play against top competition and then replace atleast Kelsay with the best of these 3 - maybe even Denney too.

yordad
08-26-2009, 08:58 PM
Mitchell had a bad game, but some veterans don't play 100% in the preseason - I'm not ready to give up on him yet. Even if I was, I don't think we have someone better to replace him with.

I do want Fine replaced by Stupar though...and I think I want Corner at the Nickel.

I'd like to see Maybin, Bryan and Ellis with the starters to gauge how they play against top competition and then replace atleast Kelsay with the best of these 3 - maybe even Denney too.Nice thoughts. I don't want to replace Mitchell entirely, just in the nickel when there is only two LBs. I really think it should be Poz and Harris. I am not basing it on Mitchells play in one preseason game. I am mostly basing it on Harris's preseason play, and the fact Mitchell has had one good game in pass defense all of last year (Chargers game). Harris is just better at it, IMO.

In the base, it should be Harris-Poz-Mitchell.