Why are the Bills always trying to push a boulder up a hill?

[X-Era]

I mean why do they think they can get things done the hard way?

For example:

1) When in the last decade has a team with a young QB gone to the playoffs when they also had a defense in the bottom of the league?

Seriously is there even one team?

2) Is there a team in the past decade thats gone to the playoffs, regardless of their D or QB, with an entirely new OL at all 5 positions?

Seriously is there even one team?

You just cant stack so many things against yourself and expect to win.

Whats wrong? A mix of everything in my opinion:

1) Our owner is just too old to make strong business decisions anymore. We have had multiple opportunities in the past decade to bring in a GM who can right this ship and win and we failed over and over. Ralph just cant do it anymore. That's not a slight on him, hes a great owner and a wonderful person who brought football to Buffalo. But, hes just too old and not coherent enough to realize what it takes to win in this NFL anymore. I mean, this is the guy who let Bill Polian go. This is the guy that tried to bring back Levy as a GM when he had no experience to fix our problems.

2) Our GM's... see our owner and you can figure out why we didnt get the right GM's.

3) Our Head Coaches. Yes, you can point to the GM's, that fine. I remember a team that traded for a new HC that didnt want to be a Jet... that guy was Belicheck. I remember Donahoe listing the guys he didnt choose and then saying Gregg Williams was the best of the bunch. That list included Marvin Lewis, and John Fox.

4) Our teams players. Take a look again at what we think we can win with this year from the list above. You have your answer right there. Ralph is cheap? No, not always. But what we dont do is add the right rookies, or the right free agents. Well, thats the game in a nutshell. The last time we were even close to the playoffs was with Bledsoe, and that team boasted enough talent at enough spots that we had enough to win. Unfortunately, Bledsoe and others werent good enough to get it done. But now we can win with even less?

Look, Im all for a youth movement. But I want us to have drafted players who were some of the studs of the draft... for several years. I want us to have a proven young stud at QB. And I want us to have several proven studs on the D. I wouldnt mind starting a guy like Flacco when you have Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and Terrell Suggs on D. Instead we have Keith Ellison, Bryon Scott, and Poz. Sorry, thats not even remotely the same.

This teams fortunes will change when a new owner with a full understanding of who can truly rebuild a team comes in. When a Head Coach is added who is the type of guy that has proven he can build championship teams. And when we skew the odds in our favor with top talent, and great draft picks on both sides of the ball.

[Oaf]

I didn't read all the post, but you 100% hit the nail on the head with that title. :up:

[Typ0]

The problem with Wilson is one of trust and goes back to Donawhore. He thought that he had landed a great football mind and what he got was a nazi midget. Levy was one of the only guys he could hire that he trusted. Unfortunately, Levy has no clue how to do that job.

The OLine is pathetic this year. A complete overhaul with two rookies starting. I hate to say it...but they've already given up on the season and are working towards next year hoping both those guys turn out to be something special.


I mean why do they think they can get things done the hard way?

For example:

1) When in the last decade has a team with a young QB gone to the playoffs when they also had a defense in the bottom of the league?

Seriously is there even one team?

2) Is there a team in the past decade thats gone to the playoffs, regardless of their D or QB, with an entirely new OL at all 5 positions?

Seriously is there even one team?

You just cant stack so many things against yourself and expect to win.

Whats wrong? A mix of everything in my opinion:

1) Our owner is just too old to make strong business decisions anymore. We have had multiple opportunities in the past decade to bring in a GM who can right this ship and win and we failed over and over. Ralph just cant do it anymore. That's not a slight on him, hes a great owner and a wonderful person who brought football to Buffalo. But, hes just too old and not coherent enough to realize what it takes to win in this NFL anymore. I mean, this is the guy who let Bill Polian go. This is the guy that tried to bring back Levy as a GM when he had no experience to fix our problems.

2) Our GM's... see our owner and you can figure out why we didnt get the right GM's.

3) Our Head Coaches. Yes, you can point to the GM's, that fine. I remember a team that traded for a new HC that didnt want to be a Jet... that guy was Belicheck. I remember Donahoe listing the guys he didnt choose and then saying Gregg Williams was the best of the bunch. That list included Marvin Lewis, and John Fox.

4) Our teams players. Take a look again at what we think we can win with this year from the list above. You have your answer right there. Ralph is cheap? No, not always. But what we dont do is add the right rookies, or the right free agents. Well, thats the game in a nutshell. The last time we were even close to the playoffs was with Bledsoe, and that team boasted enough talent at enough spots that we had enough to win. Unfortunately, Bledsoe and others werent good enough to get it done. But now we can win with even less?

Look, Im all for a youth movement. But I want us to have drafted players who were some of the studs of the draft... for several years. I want us to have a proven young stud at QB. And I want us to have several proven studs on the D. I wouldnt mind starting a guy like Flacco when you have Ray Lewis, Ed Reed, and Terrell Suggs on D. Instead we have Keith Ellison, Bryon Scott, and Poz. Sorry, thats not even remotely the same.

This teams fortunes will change when a new owner with a full understanding of who truly can rebuild a team comes in. When a Head Coach is added who is the type of guy that has proven he can build championship teams. And when we skew the odds in our favor with top talent, and great draft picks on both sides of the ball.

[X-Era]

The problem with Wilson is one of trust and goes back to Donawhore. He thought that he had landed a great football mind and what he got was a nazi midget. Levy was one of the only guys he could hire that he trusted. Unfortunately, Levy has no clue how to do that job.

The OLine is pathetic this year. A complete overhaul with two rookies starting. I hate to say it...but they've already given up on the season and are working towards next year hoping both those guys turn out to be something special.

I think you reiterated my point on Wilson. Was there not enough evidence that Donawhore was a nazi midget before he went and got him? Thats the type of thing Wilson does, he doesnt have the business savvy to see where it might lead anymore or to make the best choice for the team.

Even now we have a marketing guy running the show. What the hell does Russ know about how to build a team? Hes proven he can do that, when again?

[Meathead]

at the time the donohoe hire was an excellent one. he was one of the hottest gms in the league and every football mind in the country thought he would continue in that manner when he came here

frankly i was shocked that ralph would take that route since he always liked to meddle and usually had gms he could bully (or he fired them like polian). unfortunately nobody could possibly have predicted the chain of whiffs that donahoe would produce once he got here

which is really unfortunate because ralph pretty much changed his entire way of running the team, namely that he gave the entire ring of keys to donahoe as team president. but ralph got burned big time by that hire

which is why i think ralph went back to his old way of running the team, to hire inexperienced head coaches and coordinators and hope you get lucky and uncover the next great staff - if you recall, levy was no great hire when he came here

so who knows, maybe after he fires the dick he will be ready to try another name coach. theres a ton of good ones out there, maybe we will get one for ralphs last hurrah

[Night Train]

It starts with Wilson. Always does.

He hires Marv ( with zero GM experience) who then picks Jauron. Then hires a marketing guy with zero football experiece to be Marvs' replacement. During the heat of the moment, Brandon extends Jauron when no one was bidding for his services. Jauron then procedes to finish the year losing 8 of the last 10 games. Looks like more of the same this fall.

This creates a negative domino effect that Ralph (or someone he will actually listen to) must correct.

There IS talent here with more needed but you could give Jauron an All-Pro team and he'd coach them to a 7-9 season.

Bring on 2010.

[DMBcrew36]

Maybe some day the team will smarten up and realize they are incapable of sculpting a QB out of college. The Bills need to go buy themselves a proven QB. I don't care if they tried doing that with Bledsoe and it blew up in their face - don't get an immobile pocket passer if you don't have an O-line to protect him.

[Ebenezer]

EE has it right..look at the draft picks from 2001 - 2008...too many players drafted rounds early or drafted to be a starter instead of a back up. Take a look at the DL. Aaron Schobel would have been a great Phil Hansen-like player; Denny, Kelsay, Ellis would all be perfect back ups - these guys were expected to come in and start. Parrish in the second round in a year with no 1st round pick? Everett in the third round? McGahee? Losman? More TEs drafted than linemen?

The drafting department, "doesn't understand what the NFL draft is about", to quote a particular guru.

[trapezeus]

i know this isn't the point of your thread, but shouldn't Marv be held a bit accountable? He knew that he wasn't a gm and that he was essentially trying a new gig in the later stages of life. And then he quite two years into it. And he gave us his pal dick, wasted the 8 pick on Whitner, traded up for mccargo and then signed Roscoe to a huge extension.

Ummmm, why doesn't Marv get a slap on the wrist? Why didn't he say, "Ralph, i can't do this job. I have no experience. I know how badly you want someone you trust and i will sit with you as you make a decision, but i'm not the guy to make this work."

But EE, i think you got it right. This team just has no gameplan to get to the winning stage and in the end they are trying to make due with seriously ineffective tools.

[Ingtar33]

Marv was head coach in Montreal, and Bill Polian claims he was taught everything he knows about being a gm by Marv when he was in Montreal with him... so take that for what it's worth.

[Ebenezer]

Marv was head coach in Montreal, and Bill Polian claims he was taught everything he knows about being a gm by Marv when he was in Montreal with him... so take that for what it's worth.
did the game pass ML by? he was gone for over 10 years.

[Ed]

Was letting Polian go the worst move in the history of this franchise? Thinking about where this team would be if we had still had him all these years makes me want to cry.

[trapezeus]

Was letting Polian go the worst move in the history of this franchise? Thinking about where this team would be if we had still had him all these years makes me want to cry.

It probably was. But what makes it so annoying is that Wilson allowed it to get personal and made a gigantic mistake and fired Polian....but then like an impetulant child he makes the same exact mistake with John Butler. He fires him for no good reason and that guy was still pulling in good talent. True, the salary cap got way out of control, but the team was not as **** poor as it is today. And that's on Ralph.

The team desperately needs an overhaul.

[ddaryl]

Was letting Polian go the worst move in the history of this franchise? Thinking about where this team would be if we had still had him all these years makes me want to cry.

There is no denying it. I say YES

Just look at Polian after he left. he took Indy from a loser franchise to decade plus playoff contender. He knows how to hire a coach, he drafted smart, and he bring in FA's that work...


and all of this because he hurt Ralphies pride and called his daughter a *****, who I have heard from mulitple sources fits the description.

So basically the Bills suck so Ralph could protect his daughters position with the Bills. It's his team, but the bottom line is you keep the person who is brains of the successful operation you have, and then you smooth things out with your daughter by buying here a nice new Ferrari, and sticking a suitcase full of cash in it and then explain to her why she will never work in the Bills organization again. Unfortunately that is not what happened

[ddaryl]

but then like an impetulant child he makes the same exact mistake with John Butler. He fires him for no good reason and that guy was still pulling in good talent. True, the salary cap got way out of control, but the team was not as **** poor as it is today. And that's on Ralph.

The team desperately needs an overhaul.


Butler was horrible with the money... he was pumping out the most bizzare crazy contracts. He was a solid talent evaluator, but he sucked with salary cap economics. he had to go IMHO

I know Ralph had a say with Johnson, but Butler pushed for it, and not only gave away a 1st rd pick he paid him like a superstar with nothing to prove.

[baalworship]

You are making a big assumption. That assumption is that the Bills expect to win and go to the playoffs this year. One idea I heard on WGR that sounds more plausible is that they know they are not close and that Jauron was retained because they are going to be bad anyway.

A new coach won't be brought in until the rebuild is closer and that Jauron is basically set up to take the fall.

It doesn't take a football genius to see this team as 6-10, 7-9 at best.

[trapezeus]

but you can't pick players without knowing your coaches strength. it's ridiculous for a front office to think, "we'll put this winning team together and then find a coach."

The rebuild starts from a guy with a vision and then you get him the tools he needs to accomplish that.

That's what we did for Jauron. We dismantled a decent 2004 2005 defense so that we could put together this cover 2 crap. And he's just too stupid to get an adequate line in.

If what you said is true Baal, i hate this front office's way of doing business.

[X-Era]

but you can't pick players without knowing your coaches strength. it's ridiculous for a front office to think, "we'll put this winning team together and then find a coach."

The rebuild starts from a guy with a vision and then you get him the tools he needs to accomplish that.

That's what we did for Jauron. We dismantled a decent 2004 2005 defense so that we could put together this cover 2 crap. And he's just too stupid to get an adequate line in.

If what you said is true Baal, i hate this front office's way of doing business.
I believe pretty firmly that this organization either doesn't really want to win, or doesnt want to do what it would take to build a winner, or both. Their record speaks for itself.

[Typ0]

Thank you. The failure of the Donohoe expirement was tantamount to the situation we are in today...both in the team he built and the current management.


at the time the donohoe hire was an excellent one. he was one of the hottest gms in the league and every football mind in the country thought he would continue in that manner when he came here

frankly i was shocked that ralph would take that route since he always liked to meddle and usually had gms he could bully (or he fired them like polian). unfortunately nobody could possibly have predicted the chain of whiffs that donahoe would produce once he got here

which is really unfortunate because ralph pretty much changed his entire way of running the team, namely that he gave the entire ring of keys to donahoe as team president. but ralph got burned big time by that hire

which is why i think ralph went back to his old way of running the team, to hire inexperienced head coaches and coordinators and hope you get lucky and uncover the next great staff - if you recall, levy was no great hire when he came here

so who knows, maybe after he fires the dick he will be ready to try another name coach. theres a ton of good ones out there, maybe we will get one for ralphs last hurrah

[Typ0]

Marv was head coach in Montreal, and Bill Polian claims he was taught everything he knows about being a gm by Marv when he was in Montreal with him... so take that for what it's worth.


That was before and had nothing to do with the current relationship between the NFL and the players union though--the relationship the GM has to manage foremost to help the team be successful on the field. Let's just say I stuck my head in the toilet after ML made the comment that he had no clue about the cap.