crow on the menu

[Marvelous]

-Just wanted to eat some & set the example to others who need to ever admit they misjudged any of our players & staff etc...

-Crow----On Trent Edwards ignoring Lee Evans & the long deep streak/Bomb etc BECAUSE he lacks arm strength... I was wrong. I watched all 3 games so far and i am not sure why i was so GUNG-HO about Trent having a mediocre Arm..I never labled him Chad Pennington Noodle Arm, but for what it's worth Trents problem isnt his cannon..
---I believe it is coverage awareness,,or,,checkdowns.. You guys know how Brady in years past against us, or in highlights always naile the wide-out, or target who gets the most outta the play? Well this i believe is where trent Needs imporvement/coaching..He missed lee evans so much because he was zeroed in on Josh Reed/TE's and esp The RB's...
---If i'm by chance wrong, then i dunno what mechanic of his is off..
-Talent - check
-Accuracy-check
-exp/confidence- check
-arm strength- check
--So it's gotta be a combo of route running & getting seperatin from coverage.

------but--------What was the reason for Lee EVans not getting respectable attempts last year? He even had a game without a pass thrown to him & he started. wtf!
--I'd like to investigate this from the past, to help understand the here & now...
--Perhaps a talented playmaker like T.O will make all teh difference. We also started the mediocre Robert Royal last year. Mighta been different if we started Schouman, or even the rookie Fine. Both look awesome. ALthough both seem to be very large. But then again so does ALge Crumpler & he's still a beast in teh passing game. & neither are fat or large like him...
---Sorry Trent, your arm is A-ok w/ me...

[Kenny]

Im still not sure what we have yet with Edwards.

Talent - I dont know... struggled almost every game last year except for the Denver and KC game. Only showed up in Q4 for the Seattle, STL, Oak, etc... games (I know we won those games and people dont like to complain about winning, -but through the first 3 quarters he and the entire offense were piss poor).

Accuracy - maybe. He's made some beautiful throws (that throw in the Washington game 2 years ago in the 4th quarter to setup the winning field goal comes to mind). But he plays more like Holcomb in that all he did was throw to his check down receivers last year. So again, -I dont know what he has?

exp/confidence- definately not yet. Seems hesitent and throws way too often to his check down receivers.

arm strength- average. Wouldnt be a problem if he played in a warm climate. But he'll never be relied on to win games when it gets really windy. (ie., Bulger looks great indoors, -but can you imagine him trying to throw in weather? his arm just isnt strong enough to rely on.)

[Canadian'eh!]

I still think Edwards has a chance to be an exceptional QB.

I think he comepares EXTEMELY well to younger Tom Brady. With 3 major exceptions.

He's alike in that he moves well in the pocket to buy time, though still sometimes a bit too much. He's not a super athelete but his feel for the pressure lets him slide and move around.

He's very smart, like brady, and sees things very well.

His arm isn't a rocket, but it's good enough, and both were are very accurate.

The differences?

- Confidence/trust.. Trent seems gun-shy. He has to learn to trust his WR's to beat man coverage instead of checking down. Is this what he's taught or his own confidence issue. Are the coaches doing enough to hep him overcome this?

- Oline. Trent does well not to take even more sacks. But Brady has ALWAYS been ebtter protected behind a more talented line.

- Biggest difference of all: COACHING. Brady had Belicheck and his staffs to lean on to guide him. The O was creative, and taylored to his abilities as he progressed as a QB. They until he was ready to carry them, he was protected by a good running game, West-coast style short passing game and a stellar D. They evolved with him. Our coaches can't seem to create a D that canhold when needed, and Oline that blocks, playcall with any creativity, OR teach trent to overcome his issues or how to read the 3-4.


I Trent fails in the NFL, I will always believe that our coaching staff ruined him. I coudl easily see him going to a pro bowl for some better coaches (probably somewhere else) even if he fails this year.

Doens't matter what kind of race car you have if your drive is doing 40 with his blinker on.

[ddaryl]

Trent had some solid games last year, and I would rather have a QB that gets hot in the 4th quarter then to be hot in the 1st quarter and peter out in the 2nd half. However slow starts are no teams friend.. but is this the QB or is this team preperation/coaching ????? It also doesn't help that we rarely have a consistent running attack that we can depend on. It is always hit or miss. It's always because our OL is in some state of flux/transisition.

Yeah he stuggled during our losing streak, but there are many factors that also contributed to that streak outside of Trent


In regards to arm strength.... Average is the perfect description. He's no noodle arm, but as mentioned a windy day is not his friend

Accuracy for Trent is actually great stats wise, but Captain check down definitely takes what the D gives him, unfortunately teams are now gameplanning for that. D's give Trent what they want him to take...

Confidence is 50 -50. He knows how to make the safe throw, but he doesn't know how to place the ball for our Wr's. In Trent's defense we really haven't had any WR's that know how to go up and get the ball. Evans is not much of a body position WR and no one on our team SO FAR has demonstrated an ability to do so, but then again we haven't taken those shots either.

[Forward_Lateral]

Im still not sure what we have yet with Edwards.

Talent - I dont know... struggled almost every game last year except for the Denver and KC game. Only showed up in Q4 for the Seattle, STL, Oak, etc... games (I know we won those games and people dont like to complain about winning, -but through the first 3 quarters he and the entire offense were piss poor).

Accuracy - maybe. He's made some beautiful throws (that throw in the Washington game 2 years ago in the 4th quarter to setup the winning field goal comes to mind). But he plays more like Holcomb in that all he did was throw to his check down receivers last year. So again, -I dont know what he has?

exp/confidence- definately not yet. Seems hesitent and throws way too often to his check down receivers.

arm strength- average. Wouldnt be a problem if he played in a warm climate. But he'll never be relied on to win games when it gets really windy. (ie., Bulger looks great indoors, -but can you imagine him trying to throw in weather? his arm just isnt strong enough to rely on.)

Struggled in every game? Are you high? He played exceptionally well, until he got blasted by Adrian Wilson, IMO.

[Kenny]

Struggled in every game? Are you high? He played exceptionally well, until he got blasted by Adrian Wilson, IMO.

not high... lest we forget how close those games were versus Oakland, St. Louis, Seattle, etc... If it werent for some late game heroics (which is better than nothing I guess), we might have lost them. [and if werent for Greer intercepting that ball in the 2nd half in St. Louis, we probably would have lost that game].

Fact is, -those were games we should have dominated, yet Trent and the offense struggled.


While Im not denying the concussion had some affect on TE, the truth is, we didnt face any real competition until the 2nd half anyways. And I doubt (based on his play vs. extremely weak opponents) we would have fared much better against the 'real' teams.

Now dont get me wrong... I dont hate TE. It's just 1 year later and I still dont know what we have in TE as a QB.

[Mahdi]

Im not against Edwards or anything, but everyone always calls him smart, I dont see it.... I think Edwards is a very simple QB, he gives the ball to the player he has the highest probability of completing to. That is not smart, that is taking the easy way out.


Sorry but if after a full year you still can't figure out how to beat a 3-4 defense, how smart can you be?

Remember the Raiders game, he did nothing the first 3 quarters until we were down by 17 or something, then he finally started letting loose because he had no choice.

Edwards plays scared. And until he realizes that he has to be a playmaker, he will continue to struggle.

[Mahdi]

Struggled in every game? Are you high? He played exceptionally well, until he got blasted by Adrian Wilson, IMO.
Edwards is a QB, if taking a lick makes you go into a shell, then find another job.

[Commissioner]

Who eats crow after preseason games?

[Commissioner]

Im not against Edwards or anything, but everyone always calls him smart, I dont see it.... I think Edwards is a very simple QB, he gives the ball to the player he has the highest probability of completing to. That is not smart, that is taking the easy way out.


Sorry but if after a full year you still can't figure out how to beat a 3-4 defense, how smart can you be?

Remember the Raiders game, he did nothing the first 3 quarters until we were down by 17 or something, then he finally started letting loose because he had no choice.

Edwards plays scared. And until he realizes that he has to be a playmaker, he will continue to struggle.
The problem is coaching. The players play the way they are coached.

What did the coaches do to JP Losman? They lectured him on not scrambling and staying in the pocket, and being safe with the ball and taking the checkdown until he didn't know what to do with the ball and did 360's in the pocket until he was sacked. All you heard from JP in press conferences was about learning to take the checkdown.

Edwards is smart, and is doing what the coaches ask.

We have boring conservative coaches... and thats the play you see on the field.

[Commissioner]

Struggled in every game? Are you high? He played exceptionally well, until he got blasted by Adrian Wilson, IMO.

He played exceptionally well his next start after the concussion against the Chargers, and then later in the season against the Chiefs and Bronco's.

The concussion and that hit doesn't have to do with anything anymore.

[Forward_Lateral]

[quote=Commissioner]He played exceptionally well his next start after the concussion against the Chargers, and then later in the season against the Chiefs and Bronco's.

So, he didn't suck every game, did he?

[Forward_Lateral]

In fact, I'd go out on a limb and say he played well in 7 games, and not so well in 8.

[Mahdi]

In fact, I'd go out on a limb and say he played well in 7 games, and not so well in 8.
So he played well against the Chiefs, Broncos, Raiders, Seattle, Rams, Jags and Chargers. Is it coincidence that 6 of the 7 teams are 4-3.

The rest were 3-4 and he was bad against all of them.

This year he moved the ball against both Tennessee and Chicago who are 4-3, struggled big time against Packers who are 3-4.

Trent IMO, is easily confused by moving parts, when you face a 3-4 anyone can drop off in coverage and anyone can blitz. He has trouble diagnosing this and that is why he struggles.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Words out of Cleveland and Denver is that the coaches want to rely on the RBs and QBs throw short passes. Where do we see that before? How about New England several years ago?

Edwards is an ideal QB (in his early stage) for a defensive coach like Belichick. Remember Pennington when he came on stage?

But teams will catch up to you. They will start to take away what you do best. For Pennington, his arm strength limits what he can do. For Brady, he takes his game to what the defenses gave him, which is long range strikes, and in the process became a better QB.

I think the Bills coaches see Edwards the same light. There is a reason they went out of their way to get Owens. But it is not as simple as adding weapon to cure all ills. All process, especially athletic development, has an internal development and external environment to bring fruition. Owens' presence is a plus. O-Line development so far is a minus. But the most critical part is Edwards development within! It will take some struggle. Just remeber the mighty Brady struggled for awhile too. We'll see Edwards moves in the direction of Pennington or Brady this season.

[BidsJr]

FWIW Trent was tied for 11th in the NFL in YPA last year. Hopefully he keeps improving that, but that is a solid number. He also had a 20 yard completion about every 10 pass attempts. If you compare against the top guys, he was right there.

[Forward_Lateral]

So he played well against the Chiefs, Broncos, Raiders, Seattle, Rams, Jags and Chargers. Is it coincidence that 6 of the 7 teams are 4-3.

The rest were 3-4 and he was bad against all of them.

This year he moved the ball against both Tennessee and Chicago who are 4-3, struggled big time against Packers who are 3-4.

Trent IMO, is easily confused by moving parts, when you face a 3-4 anyone can drop off in coverage and anyone can blitz. He has trouble diagnosing this and that is why he struggles.

I believe the Chargers run a 3-4. I also thought the Chiefs and/or Broncos do, but I could be wrong.

[Hemlepp53]

Struggled in every game? Are you high? He played exceptionally well, until he got blasted by Adrian Wilson, IMO.

Agreed 100% Forward. That Card game killed his season last year. The kid was on point up until that point.

[Mahdi]

I believe the Chargers run a 3-4. I also thought the Chiefs and/or Broncos do, but I could be wrong.
Thats why I said 6 of 7... and last year Chiefs and Broncos were 4-3.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I believe the Chargers run a 3-4. I also thought the Chiefs and/or Broncos do, but I could be wrong.
Neither of them do.

I read somewhere that this year all of Bills non divisional opponents run 4-3. I know the Browns ran 3-4 last year but them may have changed with a new coaching staff. Also New England runs a hybrid 3-4/4-3 depending on Belichick's mood from play to play. So being good against 4-3 is a plus but I'll be VERY disapointed if we go 0-6 in the division again.

[justasportsfan]

Trent has everything Cassel has from talent to physical abilities. What Trent doesn't have IMO is proper coaching.

Just look at Dicks history of picking OC and how good/bad their units were.

[Mad Bomber]

Sorry but if after a full year you still can't figure out how to beat a 3-4 defense, how smart can you be?

Only as smart as your coaches let you be. Remember, before the Green Bay game they did not practice AT ALL against a 3-4. How can you figure out how to beat it if you don't even practice against it?

[Mahdi]

Neither of them do.

I read somewhere that this year all of Bills non divisional opponents run 4-3. I know the Browns ran 3-4 last year but them may have changed with a new coaching staff. Also New England runs a hybrid 3-4/4-3 depending on Belichick's mood from play to play. So being good against 4-3 is a plus but I'll be VERY disapointed if we go 0-6 in the division again.
All of the Chargers, Chiefs, Broncos, and Patriots run a 3-4.

Just because the Pats run some plays out of a 4-3 doesn't mean they are hybrid. The only hybrid defense in the NFL is the Cardinals, and even they have become almost purely 3-4 as a base defense.

[Mahdi]

Only as smart as your coaches let you be. Remember, before the Green Bay game they did not practice AT ALL against a 3-4. How can you figure out how to beat it if you don't even practice against it?
The are not going to waste time scheming against 3-4 defenses in practice before a pre-season game.


They are still evaluating players for cut downs, using them in formations they will not use does not benefit them.

Im sure they used 3-4 in practice against the scout team all last year though. Trent still struggled.

[Billz_fan]

I see alot of posts here that are the same thoughts as mine.

As far as Im concerned you could bring in Joe Montana as a rookie with any of the last 4 coaching staffs we have had here and he would never have made the Hall Of Fame or won a Super Bowl.

Let us not forget to It was Bill Walsh himself who called Marv Levy to sing the praises of Trent Edwards coming out of Stanford. The talent pool is on par with everyone else. However, Untill Ralph decides a coaching staff is an important ingredient in the teams sucess we will never develop young talent properly and or suceed in this league period.

[ParanoidAndroid]

[quote=Marvelous-exp/confidence- check
[/quote]

He speaks confidently, but he does not play confidently. When he is not pressed to take chances, he will not. I don't think he has confidence in the long throw over the CB and under the FS. We've seen him make plays when desperation began to set in, as evidenced by the 4th quarter comebacks. If he becomes more confident in his ability to hit WR's in between the coverages down the field, he will be on his way to becoming a truly effective threat.