Do the Pats really draft that much better than the Bills?

[X-Era]

I mean Im reading this article:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/13/maroney-gets-buried-on-the-depth-chart/

And Im thinking about how well all of the past 3 RB's did for us. Henry, McGahee, and now Lynch. Their starter is someone we drafted, Sammy Morris.

They hit a gold mine that will never be forgotten and may never be trumped again with Brady in the 6th.

In fact, out of the 22 starters on their team, 7 are players they signed instead of drafted. (Morris, Moss, Galloway, Welker, Bodden, Springs, Thomas)

In our case, we only have 4 that werent drafted by us (Owens, Hangartner, Mitchell, Stroud)

Their O and D lines are where they draft well, but we have done a better job at DB, WR, and RB.

I think they are very smart from the standpoint that they realize the draft is a crap shoot, so they stockpile picks so as to get the best chance of getting someone decent.

[X-Era]

Oops, someone want to bounce this to the main Bills board for me?

[SABURZFAN]

Their O and D lines are where they draft well


nuf said. when you control the trenches, you're going to win a lot of ballgames. it's obvious that the idiots in charge, here in Buffalo, don't know that. OL and DL are not the sexy picks but they're usually the most effective. while the Bills have had their share with the likes of the Mike Williams', the Pats have had their share with the likes of the Eugene Chung's as well.

[YardRat]

That's exactly why they are better at drafting then us...they understand a football team's success starts in the trenches.

[jamze132]

That's exactly why they are better at drafting then us...they understand a football team's success starts in the trenches.
I couldn't agree more.

Our FO finally addressed some of our O-line needs this draft. They had better hope that Bell is the 2nd coming of Peters because they blatantly ignored drafting a tackle which I think was a mistake. I would not have drafted two interior lineman on Day 1 like they did.

[SABURZFAN]

I couldn't agree more.

Our FO finally addressed some of our O-line needs this draft. They had better hope that Bell is the 2nd coming of Peters because they blatantly ignored drafting a tackle which I think was a mistake. I would not have drafted two interior lineman on Day 1 like they did.


i agree. not drafting a Tackle was a mistake but at least they started somewhere. they definitely need to address it next year, whether it be FA or the draft.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Do the Pats really draft that much better than the Bills?

Yes.

Even without naming any players, the fact that they are the Superbowl favorites every friggin years should say enough. If we drafted as well as them, we wouldn't be in this playoff drought.

[baalworship]

They have been drafting better than us over the last decade but I like the Bills drafts since Levy left. The Pats understand how to build a team better than the Bills and while we were drafting cornerback after cornerback with our first round picks (with a Top Ten thrown in for a safety) they drafted Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren.

[jamze132]

i agree. not drafting a Tackle was a mistake but at least they started somewhere. they definitely need to address it next year, whether it be FA or the draft.
Both. I would like to see Wood anchoring the line. If Hangartner can't handle RG, cut him.

[Buffalogic]

Pats 2006 draft was crap.

[X-Era]

They have made plenty of bad picks.

Maroney is now 3rd on the depth chart and he was a 1st rounder for them.

http://fftoday.com/nfl/drafttracker.php?o=by_team&TeamID=9003

01- top 2 were good picks, Light and Seymour, nothing after that
02- Decent- Graham, Branch, Jarvis Green, and Givens
03- Ok, Warren, Koppen, and Banta-Cain
04- Wilfork and Watson, not much of anything after that
05- Mankins, Maybe Hobbs, but Cassel late
06- boasted 2 1st round busts in Maroney and Chad Jackson, not much after that
07- really only Merriweather who has yet to become a stud
08- Mayo, too early to judge
09- too early to judge

I just dont see that as being stellar at drafting. They get one or two good players from each draft but the rest are just average at best.

[GreedoII]

I personally don't think they have drafted that spectacularly. The were terrible in 2000 and started 1-3 in 2001 before Bledslow got hurt. Belichick struck gold with Brady. It was a lucky pick and he was forced to use him in 2001 or he would have never seen the field if it wasn't for Moe Lewis. Much of those players were there from Parcells too. It's Brady. He is the reason for this genius status BB has now.

[Ickybaluky]

01- top 2 were good picks, Light and Seymour, nothing after that
02- Decent- Graham, Branch, Jarvis Green, and Givens
03- Ok, Warren, Koppen, and Banta-Cain
04- Wilfork and Watson, not much of anything after that
05- Mankins, Maybe Hobbs, but Cassel late
06- boasted 2 1st round busts in Maroney and Chad Jackson, not much after that
07- really only Merriweather who has yet to become a stud
08- Mayo, too early to judge
09- too early to judge

My thoughts:

2000: You left off Belichick's first draft, where Tom Brady was drafted in the 6th round. Kind of hard to look at their drafts without taking into account that pick, which pretty much made their franchise. The rest of the draft wasn't great, although they did get J.R. Redmond, who made some big plays for them in the Super Bowl run of 2001, Greg Robinson-Randall, who started a couple years at RT and Patrick Pass, who was a ST/starting FB for a number of years. Still, you get Brady and that alone makes it a great draft.

2001: Light and Seymour were pretty much it, but both starters for a decade. Seymour made 5 Pro Bowls and Light made 1. You draft two guys like that and it is a great draft.

2002: Dan Graham, Deion Branch, Jarvis Green and David Givens all became key players for several years. You get four starting-caliber players out of a draft and that is a good draft.

2003: This was a stellar draft. Ty Warren, Eugene Wilson, Asante Samuel and Dan Koppen were all very good starting players on championship teams. Samuel is one of the best CB in the NFL. Tully Banta Cain and Bethel Johnson were valuable role players. Great draft.

2004: Vince Wilfork and Ben Watson were about it, but that is a top-notch starter and a decent starter. OK draft.

2005: Logan Mankins is one of the best OG in the NFL. Ellis-Hobbs was a starting CB for them. Nick Kaczur and James Sanders are both solid starters. Matt Cassel was a steal who they turned over for a high second after 4 years. 5 starting players makes this a great draft.

2006: This was a down year. They did get Stephen Gostkowski, who is currently one of the best K in the NFL and was a Pro Bowler last year.

2007: This draft is misleading, because it was one of their best. Brandon Meriweather has developed into a starter and has Pro Bowl potential. Other than that, the rest of their picks were round 4 or later and didn't do anything. However, they traded picks to acquire Wes Welker and Randy Moss. They also traded a 2nd for a 1st the following year. When you get Meriweather, Moss and Welker in one draft, and then bank a 1st for the following year, it is a great draft.

2008: Mayo is on his was to being one of the best players in the NFL. If they get nothing else in this draft they ended up with their Ray Lewis, because this kid is going to be a great player. They got a find in Jonathan Wilhite, who will be their nickle back this year. Terrence Wheatley still may develop, and Matthew Slater is already a great ST player. The Pats also traded a lot of picks out of this draft into the following year because they weren't crazy about the talent in the draft.

2009: Too early to tell, but it looks promising. 9 rookies made the team, and it looks good early on.

Keep in mind, the Pats do a great job of trading picks in a draft for higher picks in the following draft. Next year, the Pats already have 2 extra second round picks besides their own, both acquired with 2009 3rd rounders. Also, they have Oakland's first in 2011.

The other factor you need to take into account is it is harder for a rookie to make the Pats. They have been a good team for the last decade, so in most drafts they don't need as much.

Finally, the Pats have had some success with undrafted players. Current backup QB Brian Hoyer was undrafted this year. Gary Guyton, their starting WSLB, was undrafted a year ago. Valuable reserve DL Mike Wright was undrafted, as were Ben Jarvis Green-Ellis, Stephen Neal, Pierre Woods. They get 1-2 players every year out of the undrafted pool that end up contributing.

The Patriots work the draft like they do everything else, for value. They usually end up getting great value, especially when you consider they are picking near the end of every round year after year.

[ddaryl]

i agree. not drafting a Tackle was a mistake but at least they started somewhere. they definitely need to address it next year, whether it be FA or the draft.


They did address the OL / DL with 3 out of their 4 picks in the 1st 2 rounds

They also have Bell who is our LT so drafting one would of probably costs us Wood. I think the Bills wanted to sport Wood more then any of the T left at #11


I believe the FO has finally taken notice

[yordad]

The Patriots make better decisions every day. Better all around on every thing. Their water boy is probably better.

[LifetimeBillsFan]

Everyone talks about the Pats drafting to bolster their lines and the Bills not attempting to do so, but a couple of years ago I responded to one such post by doing an analysis of what rounds the players on the two teams' offensive lines were selected in and found that the Bills had actually used more first day (Rounds 1-3) picks and slightly higher picks on the offensive linemen on their roster than the Pats had on the roster that had won the Super Bowls.

People forget that, while the Pats had used high picks on Light and Woody, Andruzzi was not a high pick, nor were any of their other offensive linemen. At the same time, the Bills had used picks on M.Williams, J.Jennings and M.Sullivan. It was the Pats' ability to take lower round picks and free agents and develop them into quality offensive linemen that led the Bills to try to do the same--with middling success, if you consider Peters and Butler, along with Pennington.

What the Bills have failed to do is identify what linemen to pick (although their biggest bust, M.Williams was widely considered to be a great choice and a near consensus pick because of the issues that McKinney had that led to him dropping so far in that draft) and develop those players and the offensive linemen that they picked in the lower rounds into quality starters in the NFL. On the other hand, the Pats have, for the most part, done a brilliant job of this--while adding Mankins to the list of high picks that they have used on the offensive line.

The biggest difference in terms of where the Pats have done a better job of addressing the lines has actually been on the defensive side of the ball, not on the offensive line. There they spent high picks on Wilfork, Seymour, Warren, Green, etc.

They have also done a magnificent job of bringing in free agents. Part of that has been because free agents want to go where they have a chance to win and, as long as the Pats have Brady, the Pats have offered them a better chance to win. But, in part, it also has to do with coaching and the atmosphere that has been created by the Pats coaches and players. It is in this regard that the Bills have failed most miserably. Whatever winning expectations and atmosphere that the Bills had was utterly destroyed by Donahoe and G.Williams and has not been successfully rebuilt by their successors. I think that Levy, Brandon and Jauron were able to put an end to the downward spiral, but, with Guy still leading their drafts, Jauron simply doesn't have what it takes to take the core-group of players that the Bills have assembled in the last couple of years to the next level. It will take another coach to do that.

In the meantime, as long as the Pats--who, quite frankly, were lucky were lucky when they hit the lottery with a 6th round pick--have Brady and Belichick, they are going to be able to maintain what they have had going. The NFL is a QB and coaching staff driven league and the Bills are going to have to have a coaching staff and QB who can compete with Brady and Belichick if they want to ultimately surpass them. It's that simple IMHO.

As for who the FO drafts, remember that the HC (and through him the coaching staff) has a lot of input into who a team draft and it is the coaching staff that has to develop the players that are taken into NFL players. Good scouts and a good player personnel director can help, but it is the coaches who meet with players at the Combine and Senior Bowl, etc. and spend a lot of time looking at players on tape before the draft, and identify what their needs are and the type of players that they are looking for. So, again, I say that a lot of the differences between how well the Pats have drafted and developed players on their lines compared with how well the Bills have done these things goes right back to the coaching staffs and the head coach in particular.