Defending Donte

[Prov401]

I'm defending Donte Whitner, bring the criticism. I'm sick of this guy getting a bad rap from, pretty much 85% of this forum. Did we reach for him? Yes. And there lies the reason why everybody is so upset, that Donte isn't a ball hawk stud Saftey, that was picked in the Top 10. Well, blame Marv for that. Personally, I think Donte is top 10 in Safties.

In Whitner's first 3 years here in Buffalo, he has more tackles than Polamalu's first 3 years with the Steelers. Fact. 254-225. Ed Reed's first 3 seasons accumulated in only 231 total tackles. Actually, Whitner's single season high in tackles (104) is more than Polamalu's (96), and Reed's (85). He is very seldomly sent on blitz's, so if your pissed at the lack of production in the sack category, blame the scheme and, or Perry Fewell. He is very durable, and has suited up all of 4 games in his career. He was 2nd on the team last night in tackles with 10, and 6 were solo. He hits hard, and you can ask Chad 85 about that. I am in no way trying to compare Whitner with Troy or Ed, as those two safties are deffinitely ball hawks, and they have won games for their teams. However, I'm sure Donte would excel as well if he had a good head coach, and a line that constantly gets pressure on the QB play after play, not giving anyone 7+ seconds to throw the ball.

This guy wears his heart on his sleeve, and it shows in everything he does. From last night in front of his locker crying, to his twitter updates, this guy shows his emotions. He loves playing for Buffalo, and wants to be embraced. Imagine coming on some of these forums, seeing the bashing and criticism week in, week out. We act like he is supposed to be some type of savior. Most mental midgets would give in, demand a trade, or lash out through the media. Whitner obviously feels the pressure, sees the comments/criticism, and apparently still chooses to live and play in the city of Buffalo with pride and honor. He doesn't choose to be a cancer to his team. He loves this team, and he wants to win in the worst way.

I just don't get most of you people with this guy. I swear it seems like if you saw him, you'd spit in his face. What's the deal? Are you that upset that he spends a good deal of time on his facebook? Are you that angry he updates his status on twitter every 10 minutes? Are you still that torn up about his 15 yard penalty years back on an ignorant punk that was taunting him and the fans in the endzone? This guy makes one mistake and everyone calls for his head. Look at the stats people. He is one of the the most productive safties in the NFL. Call him the London Fletcher of safties, because he flies under the radar without spectacular play. He makes great tackles, and apparently Gruden and Jaworski saw something last night that made them talk about him a handful of times. He is durable, passionate, and I'm happy he's on our team.

[kid mickey]

Just shooting you a thanks from the #1 Donte Whitner fan

[TacklingDummy]

The only time I noticed Whitner was when he got flagged for spearing.
He's a bum.

[kid mickey]

Looking at your sig I think I found the real bum...

[Prov401]

The only time I noticed Whitner was when he got flagged for spearing.
He's a bum.

Well thought out response.:yawn:

[TacklingDummy]

Well thought out response.:yawn:

Thanks, there's not much more that can be said about his play.

Where he was drafted has nothing to do with the reason why he's a bum, his play does all the talking for him. Maybe we can say what great heart Whitner has after he tackles someone else 5 yards into the endzone again.

If Whitner hits so hard, tell us how many fumbles he has caused in his career?

[yordad]

The only time I noticed Whitner was when he got flagged for spearing.
He's a bum.Didn't Whitner have like 10 tackles?

[SABURZFAN]

:z:

[Jaybird]

anyone have video of him crying

[TacklingDummy]

Didn't Whitner have like 10 tackles?Tackles 7-10 yards down the field do not impress me.

[TacklingDummy]

What would impress me is a game changing INT, forcing a fumble with those 10 tackles, breaking up a pass.

Let's not forget that NE scored a FG on the drive that Whitner was flagged for spearing. How many did the Bills lose by?

[PECKERWOOD]

Top 10 safety? Really?

1.) Troy Polamalu
2.) Bob Sanders
3.) Ed Reed
4.) Adrian Wilson
5.) Merriweather
6.) Otogwe
7.) Reggie Nelson
8.) Sean Smith
9.) Chris Hope
10.) Kerry Rhodes
11.) LaRon Landry
12.) Brian Dawkins
13.) Ryan Clark
14.) Gibril Wilson
15.) Roy Williams

Maybe top 20.

Sorry if I said the same name twice, I'm about to go sleepy.

[BillsWin]

you will never change their minds.

[Jaybird]

Top 10 safety? Really?

1.) Troy Polamalu
2.) Bob Sanders
3.) Ed Reed
4.) Adrian Wilson
5.) Merriweather
6.) Otogwe
7.) Reggie Nelson
8.) Sean Smith
9.) Chris Hope
10.) Kerry Rhodes
11.) LaRon Landry
12.) Brian Dawkins
13.) Ryan Clark
14.) Gibril Wilson
15.) Roy Williams

Maybe top 20.

Sorry if I said the same name twice, I'm about to go sleepy.

Not a fan of your list!!

[PECKERWOOD]

Not a fan of your list!!

Sorry, I didn't list them in order of which player I thought was the best, I just numbered it for all to see.

[BillsWin]

Number 9 safety. http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2009/05/28/whitner-ranked-as-nfls-9th-best-safety/

[Jaybird]

Sorry, I didn't list them in order of which player I thought was the best, I just numbered it for all to see.
gotcha!

But i think donte should fit in there somewhere

[yordad]

Tackles 7-10 yards down the field do not impress me.He played free safety dude. He had a tackles for a 3 yard gain and a 1 yard gain against Taylor in run support.

[SABURZFAN]

:z:

[Prov401]

Number 9 safety. http://blogs.buffalobills.com/2009/05/28/whitner-ranked-as-nfls-9th-best-safety/

Good find. I was trying to look for a list as well lol.

BTW to the list way above. LOL at Mariweather. Oh and Bob Sanders plays 3 games a year. I'll take the production of Whitner for now.

[PECKERWOOD]

gotcha!

But i think donte should fit in there somewhere

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't but still there are at least 15 other safeties that are comparable to Whitner. I'd love to eat crow, I'd love to see him have a great season and be one of our All time greats but he needs to step it up. He is fantastic in run support and an emotional player, that much I like about him but he is more of a liability in pass defense than Roy Williams is, which speaks volumes. 4 PDef and 2 INTs over the course of 3-4 years is just unacceptable.

[Mr. Pink]

The funny part is, Donte is no better than Michael Huff.

And I've seen people rip Michael Huff, here and nationally.

How Donte gets a pass, I can't figure out.

[Jaybird]

The funny part is, Donte is no better than Michael Huff.

And I've seen people rip Michael Huff, here and nationally.

How Donte gets a pass, I can't figure out.

maybe because he is better?!?

[Mr. Pink]

maybe because he is better?!?


He is?

The only place Whitner has Huff beat is tackles, mainly because Oakland benched him for half of last year.

Huff - 191 tackles 1 sack 2 INTs 18 passes defended

Whitner - 264 tackles 1 sack 2 INTs 6 passes defended

Who's better?

[Jaybird]

He is?

The only place Whitner has Huff beat is tackles, mainly because Oakland benched him for half of last year.

Huff - 191 tackles 1 sack 2 INTs 18 passes defended

Whitner - 264 tackles 1 sack 2 INTs 6 passes defended

Who's better?

Its not always about stats. Huff is no longer a starter in this league. The Bills have used whitner at both safety positions and corner, he's versatility alone provides enough evidence that he is a better player

[Prov401]

He is?

The only place Whitner has Huff beat is tackles, mainly because Oakland benched him for half of last year.

Huff - 191 tackles 1 sack 2 INTs 18 passes defended

Whitner - 264 tackles 1 sack 2 INTs 6 passes defended

Who's better?

Seriously, shhhhh.

A link was already posted that has leauge scouts adressing and ranking the starting safties in the NFL. Whitner is at 9. But, I'm sure you can find a way to take that ranking all the way down to 32, so let's here it.

[billsTOfan]

Was Oldman Dawkins and Roy Swiss Cheese Williams ranked higher than Donte? Pleeeeeeez gimme a break, that is ******ed

[Prov401]

Was Oldman Dawkins and Roy Swiss Cheese Williams ranked higher than Donte? Pleeeeeeez gimme a break, that is ******ed

Yea, well you got to understand, Donte commited a 15 yard penalty 2 years ago for hitting a guy 8 yards into the endzone, and he is a crybaby on twitter. So, you have to take that into consideration before saying he's better than Roy Williams, Brian Dawkins, or for this matter, former Bill and free-agent Pierson Prioleau. (Sarcasm)

[Prov401]

Was Oldman Dawkins and Roy Swiss Cheese Williams ranked higher than Donte? Pleeeeeeez gimme a break, that is ******ed

And I think your looking at a former poster's personal list. (A Whitner basher). Yea, that list is a total laugh.

[Oaf]

that much I like about him but he is more of a liability in pass defense than Roy Williams is, which speaks volumes.
Actually, it speaks of severe hyperbole.

[Prov401]

Actually, it speaks of severe hyperbole.

Severley severe.

[Mr. Pink]

Seriously, shhhhh.

A link was already posted that has leauge scouts adressing and ranking the starting safties in the NFL. Whitner is at 9. But, I'm sure you can find a way to take that ranking all the way down to 32, so let's here it.

What plays has he made?

Outside of tackling Johnnie Lee Higgins 8 yards deep in the endzone and getting run over by a backup running back last year...name one.

Michael Huff made a play last night, that Donte hasn't been able to do.

Would you seriously rate him in the top 10 of Safeties in the league?

In no particular order safeties above Whitner...

Polamulu
Bob Sanders
Reed
Atgowe
Sean Jones
Kerry Rhodes
Adrian Wilson
Chris Harris - Carolina
LaRon Landry
Chris Hope
Nick Collins
Michael Griffin
Brian Dawkins

There's 13 guys that took me all of 10 seconds to come up with in my head. I could go with a more complete list if I spend a little more time thinking about it.

[Prov401]

What plays has he made?

Outside of tackling Johnnie Lee Higgins 8 yards deep in the endzone and getting run over by a backup running back last year...name one.

Michael Huff made a play last night, that Donte hasn't been able to do.

Would you seriously rate him in the top 10 of Safeties in the league?

In no particular order safeties above Whitner...

Polamulu
Bob Sanders
Reed
Atgowe
Sean Jones
Kerry Rhodes
Adrian Wilson
Chris Harris - Carolina
LaRon Landry
Chris Hope
Nick Collins
Michael Griffin
Brian Dawkins

There's 13 guys that took me all of 10 seconds to come up with in my head. I could go with a more complete list if I spend a little more time thinking about it.

Yes I would. And apparently NFL scouts have as well.

[billsTOfan]

Brian Dawkins is terrible now, he is as slow as **** and can't cover anyone. He just hits hard if he can catch you. 5 years ago, he was a great safety. Great leader, but prob the worst present day starting safety.

Why do you think Philly let him go for 2 late rd rookies to battle for spot.

[kid mickey]

Top 10 safety? Really?

1.) Troy Polamalu 1
2.) Bob Sanders 3
3.) Ed Reed 2
4.) Adrian Wilson 5
5.) Merriweather 9
6.) Otogwe No way he got caught, you are basing your rankings off Madden
7.) Reggie Nelson He was almost cut
8.) Sean Smith Rookie really???
9.) Chris Hope 7
10.) Kerry Rhodes 6
11.) LaRon Landry 8
12.) Brian Dawkins 4 I lost all respect for your rankings when you did this!!!
13.) Ryan Clark 12
14.) Gibril Wilson No way
15.) Roy Williams No way

Maybe top 20.

Sorry if I said the same name twice, I'm about to go sleepy.
I've got Donte Whitner right outside the top ten at 11.

Troy Polamalu
Ed Reed
Bob Sanders
Brian Dawkins
Adrian Wilson
Kerry Rhodes
Chris Hope
LaRon Landry
Brandon Merriweather
Michael Griffin
Donte Whitner
Ryan Clark
Antoine Bethea
Antrell Rolle
Darren Sharper

That's what a realistic top 15 looks like, Yes Donte Whitner is a top 15 safety in the league. Not bad when there are at least 64 safeties that play the game every week.

[kid mickey]

Brian Dawkins is terrible now, he is as slow as **** and can't cover anyone. He just hits hard if he can catch you. 5 years ago, he was a great safety. Great leader, but prob the worst present day starting safety.

Why do you think Philly let him go for 2 late rd rookies to battle for spot.

WTF??? Are you serious??? Did you watch Philly football games last year? That man can still ball. You are really stepping on some serious bs and it stinks.

[Jan Reimers]

The BZ is a land of extremes. If you're not an All Pro (especially if you're a high draft pick) you're a bum. End of story.

[justasportsfan]

wait til' OP gets out of work.

[justasportsfan]

Tackles 7-10 yards down the field do not impress me.
thats actually good for a safety.

[HHURRICANE]

You cannot have star players at every position. Is Donte a liability? No. Denney and Kesly were both 2nd round picks.

Before we replace Donte why don't we get some relaible DEs and LBs in front of him.

The lack of a sustainable pass rush makes our whole secondary look like crap.

[billsTOfan]

WTF??? Are you serious??? Did you watch Philly football games last year? That man can still ball. You are really stepping on some serious bs and it stinks.

He is awful in coverage. Philly let him walk away. With no clear replacement. They had 2 late rd rookies fight for job.

[Ickybaluky]

Whitner definitely is criticized more than he should be. He is a starting-caliber S in the NFL who does a good job supporting the run.

However, you can't deny the lack of big plays. 1 Sack, 2 Ints, 7 passes defensed and 2 forced fumbles in 3 years as a starter is not going to get him mention as a top S in the NFL. Until he changes that, he is not going to be considered a top S.

Also, you can't really use tackles as a measure to compare him to other players because they aren't an official stat. They vary widely team-to-team and can't really be used for comparison.

[kid mickey]

He is awful in coverage. Philly let him walk away. With no clear replacement. They had 2 late rd rookies fight for job.

I don't know man. Dawkins is another one of those guys that always seems to be around the ball, I think they let him walk because they figured he isn't getting any younger, not because he was a bad player. In fact I believe he led Denver last week in total tackles. I don't think Dawkins is even close to done.

[PECKERWOOD]

thats actually good for a safety.

Not really, tackles in the backfield are good for a safety, just ask Troy Polamalu.

[PECKERWOOD]

Whitner definitely is criticized more than he should be. He is a starting-caliber S in the NFL who does a good job supporting the run.

However, you can't deny the lack of big plays. 1 Sack, 2 Ints, 7 passes defensed and 2 forced fumbles in 3 years as a starter is not going to get him mention as a top S in the NFL. Until he changes that, he is not going to be considered a top S.

Also, you can't really use tackles as a measure to compare him to other players because they aren't an official stat. They vary widely team-to-team and can't really be used for comparison.

I got to give you respect, for a Patriots fan you know your football. I agree with your assessment.

[justasportsfan]

Not really, tackles in the backfield are good for a safety, just ask Troy Polamalu.

we don't have a blitzing D scheme like Pitts has. 7-8 is good for cover 2.

[psubills62]

I've got Donte Whitner right outside the top ten at 11.

Troy Polamalu
Ed Reed
Bob Sanders
Brian Dawkins
Adrian Wilson
Kerry Rhodes
Chris Hope
LaRon Landry
Brandon Merriweather
Michael Griffin
Donte Whitner
Ryan Clark
Antoine Bethea
Antrell Rolle
Darren Sharper

That's what a realistic top 15 looks like, Yes Donte Whitner is a top 15 safety in the league. Not bad when there are at least 64 safeties that play the game every week.

I have to say, Bethea is an EXTREMELY underrated cover safety. He's the reason Sanders can move up into the box and make the plays against the run that he does. When Sanders and Bethea are both healthy, they often just have Bethea deep because of his tremendous range. I personally think he should be higher on your list.

Otherwise, not a bad list. I think Whitner is decent, but not All-World.

[PECKERWOOD]

we don't have a blitzing D scheme like Pitts has. 7-8 is good for cover 2.

Every team runs variations of the cover 2, even Pittsburgh. The only difference is that we run the cover 2 as our base defense.

[TacklingDummy]

The BZ is a land of extremes. If you're not an All Pro (especially if you're a high draft pick) you're a bum. End of story.

Actually you are a bum when you play like a bum. Doesn't matter where someone is drafted.

[OpIv37]

I'm defending Donte Whitner, bring the criticism. I'm sick of this guy getting a bad rap from, pretty much 85% of this forum. Did we reach for him? Yes. And there lies the reason why everybody is so upset, that Donte isn't a ball hawk stud Saftey, that was picked in the Top 10. Well, blame Marv for that. Personally, I think Donte is top 10 in Safties.

In Whitner's first 3 years here in Buffalo, he has more tackles than Polamalu's first 3 years with the Steelers. Fact. 254-225. Ed Reed's first 3 seasons accumulated in only 231 total tackles. Actually, Whitner's single season high in tackles (104) is more than Polamalu's (96), and Reed's (85). He is very seldomly sent on blitz's, so if your pissed at the lack of production in the sack category, blame the scheme and, or Perry Fewell. He is very durable, and has suited up all of 4 games in his career. He was 2nd on the team last night in tackles with 10, and 6 were solo. He hits hard, and you can ask Chad 85 about that. I am in no way trying to compare Whitner with Troy or Ed, as those two safties are deffinitely ball hawks, and they have won games for their teams. However, I'm sure Donte would excel as well if he had a good head coach, and a line that constantly gets pressure on the QB play after play, not giving anyone 7+ seconds to throw the ball.

This guy wears his heart on his sleeve, and it shows in everything he does. From last night in front of his locker crying, to his twitter updates, this guy shows his emotions. He loves playing for Buffalo, and wants to be embraced. Imagine coming on some of these forums, seeing the bashing and criticism week in, week out. We act like he is supposed to be some type of savior. Most mental midgets would give in, demand a trade, or lash out through the media. Whitner obviously feels the pressure, sees the comments/criticism, and apparently still chooses to live and play in the city of Buffalo with pride and honor. He doesn't choose to be a cancer to his team. He loves this team, and he wants to win in the worst way.

I just don't get most of you people with this guy. I swear it seems like if you saw him, you'd spit in his face. What's the deal? Are you that upset that he spends a good deal of time on his facebook? Are you that angry he updates his status on twitter every 10 minutes? Are you still that torn up about his 15 yard penalty years back on an ignorant punk that was taunting him and the fans in the endzone? This guy makes one mistake and everyone calls for his head. Look at the stats people. He is one of the the most productive safties in the NFL. Call him the London Fletcher of safties, because he flies under the radar without spectacular play. He makes great tackles, and apparently Gruden and Jaworski saw something last night that made them talk about him a handful of times. He is durable, passionate, and I'm happy he's on our team.

I've gone over my reasons for disliking Whitner time and time again, so I won't comment on your defense except to say one thing: there is no defense of mediocrity.

[Typ0]

Tackles 7-10 yards down the field do not impress me.


They wouldn't impress me from a lineman either...but he isn't a lineman. this tells me the line has been poor and he's been working to cover that up.

I'm not even on the fence about DW. The guy adds value to the team. Plus, he was all over the field on Monday. He's not a bum because he's not Troy Palamalou. He contributes. Calling him a bum is way out of line.

[BillsOwnAll]

Tackles 7-10 yards down the field do not impress me.

You do know hes a Saftey. He usualy starts 10-20 yards from the LOS. Sorry for his lack of tackle for loses.

[Prov401]

I've gone over my reasons for disliking Whitner time and time again, so I won't comment on your defense except to say one thing: there is no defense of mediocrity.

Well it's a good thing I'm defending quality in this thread then isn't it.

[Philagape]

You do know hes a Saftey. He usualy starts 10-20 yards from the LOS. Sorry for his lack of tackle for loses.

So then where are his INTs and passes defended?

What does he do that makes him more than a mediocre player who's just there?

[Mitchell55]

Whitner plays in the box 90% of the time. He is used to defend the run and did a very good job of that vs the Pats. He also was flying trying to make a big hit in the game but the reciever always fell as soon as Donte came in. Every Analyst considers him a top safety and he is always one of the safetys when they list the AFC east best safetys and when he is shown on the AFCs best safetys hes always at least 2nd on one of the safetys.

[Lexwhat]

I've gone over my reasons for disliking Whitner time and time again, so I won't comment on your defense except to say one thing: there is no defense of mediocrity.

It really seems like the Donte Whitner argument -- more so than any other argument on this Board -- goes in constant circles.

It's really pretty simple:

1. Whitner is a decent NFL safety, starting material.
2. Until further notice, Whitner should be a starter on this team.
3. The coaches are poor and have hindered Whitner. However,
4. Crappy coaching staff or not, Whitner hasen't even come close to playing at the level of a #8 pick, and deserves criticism for his often mediocre play.
5. Bryan Scott hasen't played much worse than Whitner did at SS.
6. The Bills drafted Jarius Byrd for a reason.

7. Most importantly, Whitner may be able to break out this season. Since we have no other choice, we might as well root for him and hope he starts carving out his niche.

[OpIv37]

Well it's a good thing I'm defending quality in this thread then isn't it.

the only people who consider Whitner "quality" are people who have accepted mediocrity. Personally, I hold the team and it's players to a higher standard.

[OpIv37]

Whitner plays in the box 90% of the time. He is used to defend the run and did a very good job of that vs the Pats. He also was flying trying to make a big hit in the game but the reciever always fell as soon as Donte came in. Every Analyst considers him a top safety and he is always one of the safetys when they list the AFC east best safetys and when he is shown on the AFCs best safetys hes always at least 2nd on one of the safetys.

Links?

[PECKERWOOD]

It really seems like the Donte Whitner argument -- more so than any other argument on this Board -- goes in constant circles.

It's really pretty simple:

1. Whitner is a decent NFL safety, starting material.
2. Until further notice, Whitner should be a starter on this team.
3. The coaches are poor and have hindered Whitner. However,
4. Crappy coaching staff or not, Whitner hasen't even come close to playing at the level of a #8 pick, and deserves criticism for his often mediocre play.
5. Bryan Scott hasen't played much worse than Whitner did at SS.
6. The Bills drafted Jarius Byrd for a reason.

7. Most importantly, Whitner may be able to break out this season. Since we have no other choice, we might as well root for him and hope he starts carving out his niche.

Haha, pretty much lex.

[OpIv37]

It really seems like the Donte Whitner argument -- more so than any other argument on this Board -- goes in constant circles.

It's really pretty simple:

1. Whitner is a decent NFL safety, starting material.
2. Until further notice, Whitner should be a starter on this team.
3. The coaches are poor and have hindered Whitner. However,
4. Crappy coaching staff or not, Whitner hasen't even come close to playing at the level of a #8 pick, and deserves criticism for his often mediocre play.
5. Bryan Scott hasen't played much worse than Whitner did at SS.
6. The Bills drafted Jarius Byrd for a reason.

7. Most importantly, Whitner may be able to break out this season. Since we have no other choice, we might as well root for him and hope he starts carving out his niche.


That pretty much nails it.

[Typ0]

Where is the measuring stick what "level" every pick should be playing at then? This whole idea of performance from picks is kind of rediculous the way the draft goes. If you average it all out they probably all play average.

[OpIv37]

Where is the measuring stick what "level" every pick should be playing at then? This whole idea of performance from picks is kind of rediculous the way the draft goes. If you average it all out they probably all play average.
then explain why the Patriots are so much better than the Bills. The draft isn't an exact science, but some teams have figured it out and some teams haven't. If you average it out, the Bills' draft picks are way below average.

[Typ0]

then explain why the Patriots are so much better than the Bills. The draft isn't an exact science, but some teams have figured it out and some teams haven't. If you average it out, the Bills' draft picks are way below average.


quarterback play has a lot to do with it. Wasn't Brady a seventh rounder or something? Why doesn't he play like a seventh rounder? Start looking again the PATS haven't had any better luck in the first round of the draft than any other team. Just because you are picked eighth doesn't mean you have to be the eighth best player in the league to be successful.

[Hemlepp53]

6th Round Pick Tom Brady plays like a 6th round pick... Nope Future HOF 6th round pick... very few 1st rounders are the real deal at the QB position... Its usually the guy who comes in with raw skill and talent and sits behind a vet for a few years...

[OpIv37]

quarterback play has a lot to do with it. Wasn't Brady a seventh rounder or something? Why doesn't he play like a seventh rounder? Start looking again the PATS haven't had any better luck in the first round of the draft than any other team. Just because you are picked eighth doesn't mean you have to be the eighth best player in the league to be successful.

no, but it does mean the expectations are higher. And Whitner plays more like a 4th round pick than a 1st round pick. If we had picked someone who plays like a 1st round pick, this team would be far better off.

[justasportsfan]

Don't say I didn't warn ya

[Prov401]

no, but it does mean the expectations are higher. And Whitner plays more like a 4th round pick than a 1st round pick. If we had picked someone who plays like a 1st round pick, this team would be far better off.

I respect your opinions. I'm glad you brought some bright observations to the thread. Everybody has made some good points, and what really got me to make this thread is just really the way people talk about him. I just kind of feel bad for the guy. I am a Whitner fan, and I do stick by him through all of the criticisms he's faced throughout his time in Buffalo. I've admitted that we deffinitley reached for this guy, no question. But I would rather have him on my team compared to about 70% of the safties in the NFL. I still stick by everything I said in my initial post. However I'm sure we're agreeing to disagree, which is fine.

[Typ0]

no, but it does mean the expectations are higher. And Whitner plays more like a 4th round pick than a 1st round pick. If we had picked someone who plays like a 1st round pick, this team would be far better off.


are you kidding me? this guy plays like a 4th rounder but he was taken in the first. The other guy plays like a 1st rounder but he was taken in the 6th. Please tell me, how many guys are playing like the pick they were took at?

[OpIv37]

I respect your opinions. I'm glad you brought some bright observations to the thread. Everybody has made some good points, and what really got me to make this thread is just really the way people talk about him. I just kind of feel bad for the guy. I am a Whitner fan, and I do stick by him through all of the criticisms he's faced throughout his time in Buffalo. I've admitted that we deffinitley reached for this guy, no question. But I would rather have him on my team compared to about 70% of the safties in the NFL. I still stick by everything I said in my initial post. However I'm sure we're agreeing to disagree, which is fine.

I'll admit I didn't like the pick from the beginning, but I really wanted Whitner to prove me wrong. So far he hasn't. Now, I'm well aware that he didn't choose where he was picked, and that's the fault of the Bills' FO, not Whitner himself. I'm also aware that the Bills' coaching and schemes don't necessarily put him in the best position to make plays.

I could almost deal with the mediocre play because, believe me- when it comes to mediocrity there's plenty of other players on this team who deserve the criticism as much or more than Whitner does. But what puts me over the edge on Whitner is all the crap: tackling a guy 8 yards deep in the end zone, roughing the punter late in the game, the stupid playoff guarantee, getting arrested twice, running his mouth off at the NE fans, the constant "tweets".

Let's put it this way: I could deal with the fact that he doesn't live up to expectations if he kept his mouth shut. I could deal with the theatrics if he backed it up on the field. But you can't be average AND be a loudmouth. That bothers me. Put up or shut up.

[OpIv37]

are you kidding me? this guy plays like a 4th rounder but he was taken in the first. The other guy plays like a 1st rounder but he was taken in the 6th. Please tell me, how many guys are playing like the pick they were took at?

You're asking the wrong questions. The two questions are:
1. How many S's could we have gotten later in the draft that are as good as Whitner?
2. How many players could we have gotten with that #8 pick that are better than Whitner?

When it comes to #1, there really aren't any. As average as Whitner is, I'm not aware of any S from his draft class playing as well or better than him (I could be wrong on this- if anyone knows differently, feel free to correct me).

When it comes to #2, there are a LOT of guys taken within the first few picks after Whitner who could have helped this team tremendously. Haloti Ngata is a DEFENSIVE TACKLE and he has more passes defensed AND more INT's than Whitner. Hell, Nick Mangold went 20 picks after Whitner. If the Bills had picked him at #8, fans would have been pissed as hell on draft day and I'd be leading the charge, but we'd all be eating some serious crow on that one.

I realize that this is the fault of the Bills' FO and not Whitner himself, but teams that constantly pick guys who play below the expectations for where they were drafted are teams that constantly lose. Case and point: Buffalo over the last 10 years.