Right here is where the FO fails us.

[X-Era]

Every year we have injuries, and our opponents simply start exploiting the replacements.

I have said for many years that our backups need to be improved. We shouldnt have UDFA's as our primary backups... they should be parctice squaders. We should be following the Pats and others who bring in long in the tooth vets who can play solid in a pinch or rotate in to spell our starters. We should be strong as far as our starters AND our backups, because injuries happen.

We all like the UDFA's and rookies. But, here in Buffalo, these guys end up starting before they are ready due to injury and our opponents pick on them.

We traded Peters, cut Dockery, and cut Walker. Thats around 10-18 mill back in our pocket in cap money (Peters was like 3.5, Walker and Dock were 7).

In my mind we didnt spend that much in FA, and we had the cap bump up. So, we should have plenty of money even with cash to crap.

Poz went down and will be out for 4-6 weeks. Buggs is as green as the hills. We already are weak with Ellison and Mitchell is coming off a bad game vs. the Pats.

You know every opponent will be picking on Buggs.

Will our FO take a step to make us better and add a quality LB? I think we all know better. "We like our guys" will be the motto.

Even if we pay big money for Brooks, we can move someone with much more experience inside, and when Poz comes back bench the youngster or even Brooks.

Right here, right now, we still can make ourselves stronger and cover the gaping hole that opponents will be picking on.

The FO has a chance to help us win right now by adding someone that can start at LB. Its whats needed and our opponents know it. I will hope for the best, but I expect us to do nothing.

[Jan Reimers]

I don't disagree with your basic premise, but I'm not sure that Brooks can still play.

[HHURRICANE]

The Bills will do nothing. Buggs to start.

[cocamide]

I don't disagree with your basic premise, but I'm not sure that Brooks can still play.

Seeing all other thirty-one teams, including Chicago who lost Urlacher, pass on him leads me to believe the same thing.

[Beastie Bills]

The Bills will do nothing. Buggs to start.

You're probably right.

I don't think I want Brooks. If the Bears won't sign him (and they have a glaring need, and his former coach), then he must be done.

But we need somebody. Our LB depth cost us that game.

[jdbillsfan]

Every year we have injuries, and our opponents simply start exploiting the replacements.

I have said for many years that our backups need to be improved. We shouldnt have UDFA's as our primary backups... they should be parctice squaders. We should be following the Pats and others who bring in long in the tooth vets who can play solid in a pinch or rotate in to spell our starters. We should be strong as far as our starters AND our backups, because injuries happen.

We all like the UDFA's and rookies. But, here in Buffalo, these guys end up starting before they are ready due to injury and our opponents pick on them.

We traded Peters, cut Dockery, and cut Walker. Thats around 10-18 mill back in our pocket in cap money (Peters was like 3.5, Walker and Dock were 7).

In my mind we didnt spend that much in FA, and we had the cap bump up. So, we should have plenty of money even with cash to crap.

Poz went down and will be out for 4-6 weeks. Buggs is as green as the hills. We already are weak with Ellison and Mitchell is coming off a bad game vs. the Pats.

You know every opponent will be picking on Buggs.

Will our FO take a step to make us better and add a quality LB? I think we all know better. "We like our guys" will be the motto.

Even if we pay big money for Brooks, we can move someone with much more experience inside, and when Poz comes back bench the youngster or even Brooks.

Right here, right now, we still can make ourselves stronger and cover the gaping hole that opponents will be picking on.

The FO has a chance to help us win right now by adding someone that can start at LB. Its whats needed and our opponents know it. I will hope for the best, but I expect us to do nothing.

This is a league wide issue, not just with the Bills. If your starter goes down, in most cases the backups aren't as good.

[SABURZFAN]

They traded Peters, cut Dockery, and cut Walker. Thats around 10-18 mill back in the Old Fart's pocket in cap money (Peters was like 3.5, Walker and Dock were 7).



fixed. :up:

[SABURZFAN]

The Bills will do nothing.



i think you're right. the Old Fart doesn't want to spend the money. he'd rather pocket it and screw the fans.

[casdhf]

If we're using the Colts LBs as an example, we'll always have scrubs for LBs. C2 puts premium on DL and S. LBs are bums. Looks like we fit the mold.

[BillsOwnAll]

The pats backups are good? Name some of those.

[trapezeus]

EE you nailed it. we just don't have a good enough conditioned team. Each year we fight the injury bug. Other teams don't go through this to the extent we do. Each year by week 5 we are sucking on wind with no name backups.

And to be fair, in some starter positions we are already running backups (denney, kelsay, ellison, Hangartner, Bell, Levitre, roscoe, reed, Edwards(possibly))

This team's issues have been discussed a lot for the last ten years and FO is one constant, another has been that rusty jones has been gone for a while.
So their backups are even worse.

[nateodoms'bff]

EE you nailed it. we just don't have a good enough conditioned team. Each year we fight the injury bug. Other teams don't go through this to the extent we do. Each year by week 5 we are sucking on wind with no name backups.

And to be fair, in some starter positions we are already running backups (denney, kelsay, ellison, Hangartner, Bell, Levitre, roscoe, reed, Edwards(possibly))

This team's issues have been discussed a lot for the last ten years and FO is one constant, another has been that rusty jones has been gone for a while.
So their backups are even worse.

Amazing. Do you actually watch the games? With the exception of Roscoe Parrish, every name you listed played pretty well. Denney is a back up, so you can take him off the list of starters.

This hatred of the Bills players has to stop at some point. It makes message boards like this one boring.

[BillsOwnAll]

Amazing. Do you actually watch the games? With the exception of Roscoe Parrish, every name you listed played pretty well. Denney is a back up, so you can take him off the list of starters.

This hatred of the Bills players has to stop at some point. It makes message boards like this one boring.



Dont worry Trap EE SF OP and a few others arent really bills fans. They have nothing better to do then piss everyone off on a teams MB there not even a fan of.

[trapezeus]

Amazing. Do you actually watch the games? With the exception of Roscoe Parrish, every name you listed played pretty well. Denney is a back up, so you can take him off the list of starters.

This hatred of the Bills players has to stop at some point. It makes message boards like this one boring.

You are 100% right. I should only take the latest results and throw away the years of poor play.

This isn't hatred. this is a fair assessment. People who have to make a fair assessment of the team will side with me on this. And Denney is going to play more with kelsay gone and is essentially the same guy in my mind.

Surely the fans with blinders on can jump up and down that we played half of the game very well, but didn't put the final punch on them early with penalties and drops....but the team took injuries and the team got worse at the end. These are hallmarks of the bills. Hate on me all you want, but its the team that isn't up to snuff. not its fans.

[cocamide]

EE you nailed it. we just don't have a good enough conditioned team. Each year we fight the injury bug. Other teams don't go through this to the extent we do. Each year by week 5 we are sucking on wind with no name backups.

And to be fair, in some starter positions we are already running backups (denney, kelsay, ellison, Hangartner, Bell, Levitre, roscoe, reed, Edwards(possibly))

This team's issues have been discussed a lot for the last ten years and FO is one constant, another has been that rusty jones has been gone for a while.
So their backups are even worse.
Out of all the recurring themes that pop up on this board in every single thread (Ralph is cheap, the FO sucks, Jauron needs to be fired, etc.) the "we are injury prone" is by far the worst. If you can show me some facts to support this statement, then I'll admit I'm wrong. For now, here's my evidence to the contrary:

http://www.nfl.com/injuries?week=1

If by week 5 we have significantly more injuries than everyone else, then you are right and I am wrong. (Even though one year's worth of injury reports isn't enough to say a team is or is not conditioned properly.)

[trapezeus]

i'm not sure how to prove that. i don't have anything but my memory. I'm not sure of sites to confirm that hte bills get more injuries in key spots.

We've had Trent go down last year and had losman come in and win 0 games. We lost schobel and got nowhere near the same pressure without him. Those were huge losses. Reed went out and there went our highly accurate QB.

So it might just be three big losses and no one can step in. Everyone has these injuries but our coaches don't seem to get people to play above their level.

Like the Dallas game 2 years ago, the bills had a bunch of nobodies on defense playing really well for the first half. George Wilson had a TD in safety for his first time out there i think. But then they couldn't hold on. but that entire season, people credited Jauron for getting to 7-9 with the number of injuries in key spots.

that's where i am getting my, "we get hit by injuries early and fall apart." I don't think it's a fallacy.

[cocamide]

i'm not sure how to prove that. i don't have anything but my memory. I'm not sure of sites to confirm that hte bills get more injuries in key spots.

We've had Trent go down last year and had losman come in and win 0 games. We lost schobel and got nowhere near the same pressure without him. Those were huge losses. Reed went out and there went our highly accurate QB.

So it might just be three big losses and no one can step in. Everyone has these injuries but our coaches don't seem to get people to play above their level.

Like the Dallas game 2 years ago, the bills had a bunch of nobodies on defense playing really well for the first half. George Wilson had a TD in safety for his first time out there i think. But then they couldn't hold on. but that entire season, people credited Jauron for getting to 7-9 with the number of injuries in key spots.

that's where i am getting my, "we get hit by injuries early and fall apart." I don't think it's a fallacy.

I agree with your argument that we can't fill the holes left by injured players. I just don't think we have more injuries than any other team.

[trapezeus]

fair enough. we might not have more injuries, but we get them in key positions when the starters looked good and have to go to a person who either doesn't truly fit the scheme or isn't a person you want playing every single down.

[HHURRICANE]

I've seen this movie before. Oh, it was the 2006, 2007, and 2008 seasons.

[Beastie Bills]

If we're using the Colts LBs as an example, we'll always have scrubs for LBs. C2 puts premium on DL and S. LBs are bums. Looks like we fit the mold.

Except for the part about our DL and S not being any good either.

[nateodoms'bff]

You are 100% right. I should only take the latest results and throw away the years of poor play.

This isn't hatred. this is a fair assessment. People who have to make a fair assessment of the team will side with me on this. And Denney is going to play more with kelsay gone and is essentially the same guy in my mind.

Surely the fans with blinders on can jump up and down that we played half of the game very well, but didn't put the final punch on them early with penalties and drops....but the team took injuries and the team got worse at the end. These are hallmarks of the bills. Hate on me all you want, but its the team that isn't up to snuff. not its fans.

I'm going to assume that there is supposed to be some sarcasm in this statement. If that's the case, then you have misused the sarcasm...

You should absolutely discount past years of poor play, as they have no relevance to what happened on the field monday night. The exception to that is Roscoe Parrish. He should not be on the field for the Bills in any capacity. With the rest of the guys you mentioned, all of them played better than they have in previous seasons, or games. So, I don't think you are actually providing a fair assessment. You are giving your biased opinion.

And my intention is not to hate on you, but rather to understand your point of view, and have a clear headed discussion about how this team played against one of the elite teams in the NFL.

[Nighthawk]

The pats backups are good? Name some of those.

They have a better coach who could make anybody look good. We don't have that luxury.

[Nighthawk]

I'm going to assume that there is supposed to be some sarcasm in this statement. If that's the case, then you have misused the sarcasm...

You should absolutely discount past years of poor play, as they have no relevance to what happened on the field monday night. The exception to that is Roscoe Parrish. He should not be on the field for the Bills in any capacity. With the rest of the guys you mentioned, all of them played better than they have in previous seasons, or games. So, I don't think you are actually providing a fair assessment. You are giving your biased opinion.

And my intention is not to hate on you, but rather to understand your point of view, and have a clear headed discussion about how this team played against one of the elite teams in the NFL.

Come on Nate, seriously? This makes everything you say have less credibility. You can't just throw away Jauron and this coaching staffs history of not making adjustments and just pissing away victory and victory.

[trapezeus]

I'm going to assume that there is supposed to be some sarcasm in this statement. If that's the case, then you have misused the sarcasm...

You should absolutely discount past years of poor play, as they have no relevance to what happened on the field monday night. The exception to that is Roscoe Parrish. He should not be on the field for the Bills in any capacity. With the rest of the guys you mentioned, all of them played better than they have in previous seasons, or games. So, I don't think you are actually providing a fair assessment. You are giving your biased opinion.

And my intention is not to hate on you, but rather to understand your point of view, and have a clear headed discussion about how this team played against one of the elite teams in the NFL.

i'm not hating on your assessment either, but the Bills have had issues with consistency. If JP doesn't lose the jets game, does that mean we should see if he's turning the corner? Kelsay, Denney, Ellison, they might give you a couple moments of greatness, and we all pray they do, but they won't give it to you when you need it most.

The guys i mentioned are guys who could have very easily been replaced this year through FA, or the draft. in some cases those guys were on the hot seat even without addressing their positions in a big bad way.

I'll give you that the bills hung in their fabulously with a tough team. But the patriots weren't really the patriots of old. Their defense is changing from 3-4 (bills kryptonite) to 4-3. They didn't look sharp. Take those items into account.

The only way you can have hope on this team this year is if they man up and show up the next 3 weeks and get a solid foundation to build on. Jauron has shown you he isn't up to that task the last 3 years. he does not do things in a consistent manner and he can't outcoach a team in the second half. He now has injuries in key spots on the defense that got badly exploited at the end of the game.

The diagnosis doesn't look good. That's all i am saying. To be told otherwise, takes the logic out of the equation. and that's fine. We're all fans. But admit how you are viewing the issue with your heart more than with your brain.

[X-Era]

I don't disagree with your basic premise, but I'm not sure that Brooks can still play.

Brooks can outplay Buggs with experience alone. And as far as physically, hes probably just fine.

[X-Era]

Dont worry Trap EE SF OP and a few others arent really bills fans. They have nothing better to do then piss everyone off on a teams MB there not even a fan of.

Are you serious with this ****?

Maybe you should read this:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2987899#post2987899

Or this

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=179400

Next time bring facts before labeling me a non-Bills fan.

I wont even hear that ****... Its just stupidity.

[X-Era]

Out of all the recurring themes that pop up on this board in every single thread (Ralph is cheap, the FO sucks, Jauron needs to be fired, etc.) the "we are injury prone" is by far the worst. If you can show me some facts to support this statement, then I'll admit I'm wrong. For now, here's my evidence to the contrary:

http://www.nfl.com/injuries?week=1

If by week 5 we have significantly more injuries than everyone else, then you are right and I am wrong. (Even though one year's worth of injury reports isn't enough to say a team is or is not conditioned properly.)

I dont think wre any more injury prone.

I think he smart teams have decent backups, not UDFA's and rookies. Because they realize that those guys will have a learning curve and in this game every game counts.

[nateodoms'bff]

Come on Nate, seriously? This makes everything you say have less credibility. You can't just throw away Jauron and this coaching staffs history of not making adjustments and just pissing away victory and victory.

I was talking about the players. Coaches are a different story. They get stuck in their ways, and its almost impossible for them to become something else.

[nateodoms'bff]

i'm not hating on your assessment either, but the Bills have had issues with consistency. If JP doesn't lose the jets game, does that mean we should see if he's turning the corner? Kelsay, Denney, Ellison, they might give you a couple moments of greatness, and we all pray they do, but they won't give it to you when you need it most.

The guys i mentioned are guys who could have very easily been replaced this year through FA, or the draft. in some cases those guys were on the hot seat even without addressing their positions in a big bad way.

I'll give you that the bills hung in their fabulously with a tough team. But the patriots weren't really the patriots of old. Their defense is changing from 3-4 (bills kryptonite) to 4-3. They didn't look sharp. Take those items into account.

The only way you can have hope on this team this year is if they man up and show up the next 3 weeks and get a solid foundation to build on. Jauron has shown you he isn't up to that task the last 3 years. he does not do things in a consistent manner and he can't outcoach a team in the second half. He now has injuries in key spots on the defense that got badly exploited at the end of the game.

The diagnosis doesn't look good. That's all i am saying. To be told otherwise, takes the logic out of the equation. and that's fine. We're all fans. But admit how you are viewing the issue with your heart more than with your brain.

I think logic has everything to do with my assessment of Monday's game.

Logically, the Bills had no chance of winning that game. Logically, they should not have been able to hold up against any pass rush. They should not have been able to compete in that game at all. Some people on this board were saying that Brady would be pulled in the 4th Quarter.

The Bills defied "logic" on Monday, and based on what they showed as a team (coaching staff included), is what I base my judgments on. I personally thought that Ellison should have been let go. He's not what I would want as a starting LB'er on any team I would coach, however, he showed me wrong on Monday. That's my heart. My brain says, he adjusted to most plays, he got his hips turned into the runner, and squared up his tackling. That's a huge improvement over last year. Little things like that, show me that this team is headed in the right direction.

Point of attack and tackling were huge problems last season. They improved on that greatly. Executing on offense was another problem area. They showed that when given the right plays, they can do great things; Edwards especially showed that. Is it simple, sure, but it works and that's all that matters.

You ask me to use logic, and I do. I recognize that last season this team had a lot of fundamental errors that could have won them at least 3 games, making them a 10-6 team. I see that they have improved on those fundamentals, which leads me to believe that they are a better team, and will probably reach that 10-6 mark this season. Are they perfect, no. Can they make the playoffs, maybe but its a long shot. These are all things I gathered from watching the game as a fan of the team and the game itself.

[trapezeus]

^ that's a fair assessment on fundamentals improving and such.

but i think the last couple years also still have to be factored into it. like you said in a different post, coaches get stuck in their ways. and in the end the coaches elected to play not to lose on defense and they paid the price. we've seen a lot of that over the last 4 years. So where i'm coming from logically, is that the historical way the team plays out for 16 games looks similar.

i'll give you they brought it, but they have a history of stepping up for big games to only go away when you need them most.

but i agree with your post above. That made sense to me.

[BillsOwnAll]

They have a better coach who could make anybody look good. We don't have that luxury.
Yes now that they actully have bad backups. BB coached them to look like pro bowlers monday night?

[nateodoms'bff]

^ that's a fair assessment on fundamentals improving and such.

but i think the last couple years also still have to be factored into it. like you said in a different post, coaches get stuck in their ways. and in the end the coaches elected to play not to lose on defense and they paid the price. we've seen a lot of that over the last 4 years. So where i'm coming from logically, is that the historical way the team plays out for 16 games looks similar.

i'll give you they brought it, but they have a history of stepping up for big games to only go away when you need them most.

but i agree with your post above. That made sense to me.

I totally get the idea of past being relevant to the present. As soon as the Db's started playing so far off the line, I knew they were in for it through the air. Brady and Co. are to good of a team to give them that kind of cushion. Fewell gave them a 8 yards, and they took a mile.

My hope (this is my heart talking), is that they have finally seen the error in their ways, and will not perform the same way against weaker receivers. Tampa will be the test of that. If he comes out playing soft on Antonio Bryant, then I will be the first in line screaming for a change, but if he shows that our corners can press and man cover with the best of them, then I think the Bills could be a real task for any team this season.

[Mitchell55]

I dont think people realize that Brooks is a OLB, not a MLB. We would still have Buggs starting.

[Nighthawk]

Yes now that they actully have bad backups. BB coached them to look like pro bowlers monday night?

Who won?

[BillsOwnAll]

Who won?
That game didnt prove that NEs backsups were better then ours.

[SABURZFAN]

Dont worry Trap EE SF OP and a few others arent really bills fans. They have nothing better to do then piss everyone off on a teams MB there not even a fan of.


i see why your IQ results came back negative. :rolleyes:

[SABURZFAN]

Are you serious with this ****?

Maybe you should read this:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?p=2987899#post2987899

Or this

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=179400

Next time bring facts before labeling me a non-Bills fan.

I wont even hear that ****... Its just stupidity.


consider the source. i was a Bills fan before he was a gleam in his daddy's eyes.