Payton: "I think we could've played eight quarters and Buffalo wouldn't have scored"

[Mudflap1]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/10/02/gameplan/index.html?eref=sihpT1

[psubills62]

Well, we'll have to see when Buffalo meets them in the Super Bowl then :up:

[trapezeus]

ouch....there was a time i would get mad at that and say, "Payton is a punk. he better shut his mouth" blah blah blah.

Now the team has conditioned me to realise, he's right. They just under perform at such magnificent levels once that 3-4 defense is out there. I've never seen a pro team get confused for so long against a very basic defensive theory. is there a legitimit excuse for this...no. There is not.

[NorthCarBills]

ouch....there was a time i would get mad at that and say, "Payton is a punk. he better shut his mouth" blah blah blah.

Now the team has conditioned me to realise, he's right. They just under perform at such magnificent levels once that 3-4 defense is out there. I've never seen a pro team get confused for so long against a very basic defensive theory. is there a legitimit excuse for this...no. There is not.

Feel the same way. and have also undergone Dick's (and the front office's) world class "un"conditioning program for long time fans.

My initial reaction to a comment like this these days is "he's probably right."

[ddaryl]

ouch....there was a time i would get mad at that and say, "Payton is a punk. he better shut his mouth" blah blah blah.

Now the team has conditioned me to realise, he's right. They just under perform at such magnificent levels once that 3-4 defense is out there. I've never seen a pro team get confused for so long against a very basic defensive theory. is there a legitimit excuse for this...no. There is not.

no excuse, but a legitimate reason.. A team that can't dissect th emost popular D set in the league comes back to coaching.....

but we all know this now


however maybe the Bills can use this as motivation to move forward :whistling

[justasportsfan]

wish both AVP and Trent reads this . They just got *****SLAPPED by Payton publicly.

[trapezeus]

wish both AVP and Trent reads this . They just got *****SLAPPED by Payton publicly.

serioiusly...payton doesn't strike me as the guy to talk smack....this is just his feeling. I realize he said it to be nice to Gregg Williams the new guy....but how many coaches put bulletin board material up?

Granted we won't face these guys for another 4 years and by that time, we'll be asking for our next crap coach to exit.

[Pinkerton Security]

i know it wasnt on offense, but uhh...we did score

[Mahdi]

The article says they played 25 snaps with 3 down linemen and 2 LBs and 6 DBs... so why didn't Fred Jackson have 25 carries for 150 yards? Trent should have audibled to runs more. Especially in such a close game.

[Devin]

Hes 1000% correct. We were outplayed and outcoached every phase of the game except for 1 trick play on ST.

[bigbub2352]

ouch....there was a time i would get mad at that and say, "Payton is a punk. he better shut his mouth" blah blah blah.

Now the team has conditioned me to realise, he's right. They just under perform at such magnificent levels once that 3-4 defense is out there. I've never seen a pro team get confused for so long against a very basic defensive theory. is there a legitimit excuse for this...no. There is not.
easy sum it up to BAD COACHING

[Novacane]

:lmao: Can't be mad at the guy. He basically said our coaching and our QB suck and he's right on both.

[yordad]

We can't score vs a 3-4. Sad but true. :(

[Mahdi]

We can't score vs a 3-4. Sad but true. :(
You need to make throws in coverage to beat the 3-4. Trent doesn't do coverage.

[yordad]

You need to make throws in coverage to beat the 3-4. Trent doesn't do coverage.And, he doesn't hit the underneath routes with the player on the run very often either. :ill:

[RockStar36]

:rofl:

That is great.

[BillsWin]

He can say that because we arent in their division so they dont have to worry about playing us again.

Although in this scenario I think he is right.

I would love nothing better than to meet them again in the Super Bowl, but I doubt it will happen. Who knows though the AFC is all effed up this year. Pittsburgh lost to Cinci, the Pats look mediocre, the Colts are OK, but not all world. The Jets are good, the Titans are 0-3.

Who knows :idunno: Technically we can still go 14-2.

[RockStar36]

He can say that because we arent in their division so they dont have to worry about playing us again.

Although in this scenario I think he is right.

I would love nothing better than to meet them again in the Super Bowl, but I doubt it will happen. Who knows though the AFC is all effed up this year. Pittsburgh lost to Cinci, the Pats look mediocre, the Colts are OK, but not all world. The Jets are good, the Titans are 0-3.

Who knows :idunno: Technically we can still go 14-2.

OH I know. The Saints should definitely be quaking in their boots when they face the Bills in the Super Bowl.

Give me a break.

The Bills were lucky to hold New Orleans to 27 points. I guarantee they played down to their opponent last Sunday and that is the real reason they didn't put 40+ points on the board.

[BillsWin]

OH I know. The Saints should definitely be quaking in their boots when they face the Bills in the Super Bowl.

Give me a break.

The Bills were lucky to hold New Orleans to 27 points. I guarantee they played down to their opponent last Sunday and that is the real reason they didn't put 40+ points on the board.

I was responding to psuBills who said wed see them in the Super Bowl. I doubt we could get there, but why be such a cynic?


If we had any sort of an offense last weekend we could have won that game, but we kept kicking it to them! AHHHH!!! stupid, stupid Bills.

[trapezeus]

whose fault is it that our offense is just as pathetic as when he got here?

[Mahdi]

He can say that because we arent in their division so they dont have to worry about playing us again.

Although in this scenario I think he is right.

I would love nothing better than to meet them again in the Super Bowl, but I doubt it will happen. Who knows though the AFC is all effed up this year. Pittsburgh lost to Cinci, the Pats look mediocre, the Colts are OK, but not all world. The Jets are good, the Titans are 0-3.

Who knows :idunno: Technically we can still go 14-2.
I really dont think he was taking a shot at our offense by saying that. I think he is just saying that the way the game was going and by the way his defense was playing he felt as though they would hold us for 8 quarters.

He was complimenting his Defense and DC more than anything. He could care less about taking a shot at Buffalo. It's not like were rivals.

Unless he doesn't like Bill Parcells and he was trying to pump us up for our game against Miami.

[BillsWin]

I really dont think he was taking a shot at our offense by saying that. I think he is just saying that the way the game was going and by the way his defense was playing he felt as though they would hold us for 8 quarters.

He was complimenting his Defense and DC more than anything. He could care less about taking a shot at Buffalo. It's not like were rivals.

Unless he doesn't like Bill Parcells and he was trying to pump us up for our game against Miami.

very true. :cheers:

[Hemlepp53]

Who knows :idunno: Technically we can still go 14-2.

BillsWin... That is why I like you Bro... 14 - 2 is still possible. Everyone has to admit our D has played better than most thought. I am impressed how the D is looking so far. I really cant wait to see the double backs scheme come into play. There is no way AVP will not pass up the oppertunity to toss them both on the field at the same time. Line 22 up for the passing route and drop the Beast in the backfield ... All we need is for Trent to get to the Monsters we have lining up on the outsides... 81 and 83 are one hell of an strong duo if used correctly....

I can;t wait.....

[Mudflap1]

BillsWin... That is why I like you Bro... 14 - 2 is still possible. Everyone has to admit our D has played better than most thought. I am impressed how the D is looking so far. I really cant wait to see the double backs scheme come into play. There is no way AVP will not pass up the oppertunity to toss them both on the field at the same time. Line 22 up for the passing route and drop the Beast in the backfield ... All we need is for Trent to get to the Monsters we have lining up on the outsides... 81 and 83 are one hell of an strong duo if used correctly....

I can;t wait.....

You bring up a nice point. Since Fine has stone hands, with Lynch back the Bills should line up Freddie J. in the slot and let him be the checkdown guy 5-15 yards downfield. Since we know Trent likes the checkdown, Freddie could catch 5-10 passes easy, and we know he can make some YAC happen.

[BillsWin]

Our offense is too loaded to play as bad as they did last week. Something's gotta give...

[YardRat]

The truth hurts.

I'm torn on feeling how this Sunday's game is going to turn out...four more full quarters of futility, or two quick, big scores and then only 3-1/2 quarters of not putting points on the board.

IMO it's either/or...

[PECKERWOOD]

How bold? How come he didn't dare say such a thing BEFORE the game was played, hm?

[Novacane]

Our offense is too loaded to play as bad as they did last week. Something's gotta give...



Are we really? People have been saying that all offseason. Our offense was pathetic last year and we only added TO. How is that being loaded? We have a timid QB who condsiders a 10yd pass a big play. We have one of the most overated WR's in Evans. He is a great guy but does not deserve the rep of an elite reciever that so many give him. I say we are what we have been seeing for a long time now. A below average offense.

[Tatonka]

so with 6 defensive backs, we couldnt run the ball or pass.. awesome.

[Luisito23]

Our offense is too loaded to play as bad as they did last week. Something's gotta give...


That something is our QB bro.

[Ingtar33]

ouch....there was a time i would get mad at that and say, "Payton is a punk. he better shut his mouth" blah blah blah.

Now the team has conditioned me to realise, he's right. They just under perform at such magnificent levels once that 3-4 defense is out there. I've never seen a pro team get confused for so long against a very basic defensive theory. is there a legitimit excuse for this...no. There is not.


It comes down to the read the quarterback has to make.

Protection schemes and hot reads all change based on the front the defense gives the offense. Part of why, when i moved to coaching my current team, that we started the switch to the 3-4 is because it can complicate the quarterback, and o-line's job of matching up... especially since it's not a common front you see in college.

There are ways, as an offensive coordinator, you can mitigate for this when you don't face it much. My favorite is to spread the field. This makes it clear what coverage you're facing, and who the pass rushers are. It simplifies your task immensely, then all you have to worry about is a zone blitz.

Another solution is to balance the line... present the defense with no "strong side" and force them to guess which way the play is running. Put two TEs on the field, two WR and 1 back. and force the defense to commit with a few hard counts. you'll have a good idea where the blitz or pass rush is coming. and can exploit it.

Finally, since the 3-4 is primarily a 2gap scheme, you can run on it by exploiting blown gap assignments. Even at the pro level it's rare a 3-4 defense has "perfect" gap discipline... get them moving laterally, and let the RB find a cutback lane. It's not perfect, but it works.

What we're seeing with Trent.. in the past, and the offense in general is the lack of planning to exploit the 3-4's weaknesses. Passing out of tight formations, poor blitz recognition, worse coverage recognition. It's hard to throw when your QB can't figure out what coverage the defense is in, and which of the LBers are rushing and which are going to drop into coverage. Throw in the fact, that our line in the past couldn't hold off the NTs we've faced and we couldn't run either, which really made it easy for the defense.

In the past the Bills did very little to help him figure it out. Here's hoping AVP gives him a hand through game planning this sunday.

[BillyT92679]

It comes down to the read the quarterback has to make.

Protection schemes and hot reads all change based on the front the defense gives the offense. Part of why, when i moved to coaching my current team, that we started the switch to the 3-4 is because it can complicate the quarterback, and o-line's job of matching up... especially since it's not a common front you see in college.

There are ways, as an offensive coordinator, you can mitigate for this when you don't face it much. My favorite is to spread the field. This makes it clear what coverage you're facing, and who the pass rushers are. It simplifies your task immensely, then all you have to worry about is a zone blitz.

Another solution is to balance the line... present the defense with no "strong side" and force them to guess which way the play is running. Put two TEs on the field, two WR and 1 back. and force the defense to commit with a few hard counts. you'll have a good idea where the blitz or pass rush is coming. and can exploit it.

Finally, since the 3-4 is primarily a 2gap scheme, you can run on it by exploiting blown gap assignments. Even at the pro level it's rare a 3-4 defense has "perfect" gap discipline... get them moving laterally, and let the RB find a cutback lane. It's not perfect, but it works.

What we're seeing with Trent.. in the past, and the offense in general is the lack of planning to exploit the 3-4's weaknesses. Passing out of tight formations, poor blitz recognition, worse coverage recognition. It's hard to throw when your QB can't figure out what coverage the defense is in, and which of the LBers are rushing and which are going to drop into coverage. Throw in the fact, that our line in the past couldn't hold off the NTs we've faced and we couldn't run either, which really made it easy for the defense.

In the past the Bills did very little to help him figure it out. Here's hoping AVP gives him a hand through game planning this sunday.
Excellent points
I totally agree on the spreading out of the 34... I'd like to see some four wide formations and crossing patterns to exploit the open spots that a 34 leaves

I don't know how good Levitre-Hangartner-Wood are to really exploit a big NT like a Jenkins. They did fine against Wilfork sure, but I worry about Jenkins a lot
I like the Bills matchup Sunday though