How much will our lack of a championship caliber pass rush affect this season?

[WG]

In terms of our pass rush, the addition of Adams doesn't add much there, more v. the run, and only Spikes and Posey figure to bolster the pass rush any and that will largely be dependent upon how they're used by the Gray/LeBeau.

What kind of an impact do you think this will have on our season?

[Patrick76777]

It's one of the things I'm worried about.

[colin]

We added Posey, Spikes, Jones, McKenzie, and Kelsay, not to mention just a huge upgrade in the middle.

I expect us to put teams in 3rd and long, and make good things happen.

[Patrick76777]

If Jones plays as well as he can we should be fine, without him, we could be in trouble.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am worried about it. Hopefully the addition of Adams will tie up some blockers and give schobel, Jones etc some one on one matchups.

[WG]

Originally posted by colin
We added Posey, Spikes, Jones, McKenzie, and Kelsay, not to mention just a huge upgrade in the middle.

I expect us to put teams in 3rd and long, and make good things happen.

Do you really think that Adams, McKenzie, and/or Kelsay are gonna help us this season?

McKenzie is a clone of Ahanotu who wasn't anything more than average last year. Adams will beef up the middle against the run but won't do much for a pass rush and that's not why we grabbed him. He's a plug to shut down the run which was our biggest problem on D last season. Kelsay, well let's get real. The knock on him at Nebraska was that when he played the better players (OTs), he got schooled. Since the talent that he faces won't get worse from this year to last, even v. teams like Houston, Jax, Cincy, and Dallas, he won't be a factor this season if ever.

Posey and Spikes, maybe. But again, should we really be relying on our LBs for our pass rush solely?

As to Jones, I just started another thread on him. There are quite a few "ifs" for him to be anymore than average as well. In any case, if all we get is "average", then you can be assured that our pass rush, at least coming from the DL, won't be much better than it was last year.

So it seems that you're really relying on the fact that Jones' comes back at 100% of his 2000 form or that Posey plays at the same or higher level than he did last year in a totally different system under which he's never done that, eh.

I also have heard that Spikes won't be primarily in a pass rushing position. Who knows how they'll use him, but I was hoping that he be used to rush the passer quite a bit.

[WG]

Originally posted by THATHURMANATOR
I am worried about it. Hopefully the addition of Adams will tie up some blockers and give schobel, Jones etc some one on one matchups.

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinkin' too...

[Dozerdog]

Another slanted poll- What's next "When have you stopped beating your wife?'

You have already made your mind up that we have no pass rush.

If you were really interested in taking the fan's temperature on the team's chances your choices should be -

1) Can they get far if a pass rush doesn't materialize?
2) Can they win a championship if it does materialize?
3) Wait and see-





I think i'll start a poll-

If a Piano fell on Drew Bledsoe's head tomorrow, how would that impact the Bills Championship drive? -

-Negligible

- Slight

- It will affect us but not immensely.

-It will have definitely have strong impact and we should have done more in this area in the offseason!

-Unless we get rid of all pianos , we shouldn't expect to advance in the playoffs.

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Another slanted poll- What's next "When have you stopped beating your wife?'

You have already made your mind up that we have no pass rush.

If you were really interested in taking the fan's temperature on the team's chances your choices should be -

1) Can they get far if a pass rush doesn't materialize?
2) Can they win a championship if it does materialize?
3) Wait and see-





I think i'll start a poll-

If a Piano fell on Drew Bledsoe's head tomorrow, how would that impact the Bills Championship drive? -

-Negligible

- Slight

- It will affect us but not immensely.

-It will have definitely have strong impact and we should have done more in this area in the offseason!

-Unless we get rid of all pianos , we shouldn't expect to advance in the playoffs.


very funny. It's just like a Wys poll

[Earthquake Enyart]

Irregardless, you should count inproved LB play in your pass rush. Also, Wire showed late in the year that he can be an effective blitzer as well.

Sam and Pat should tie up 3 blockers making it easier to blitz.

[Patrick76777]

But number 1 should be to Run and stop the Run. That's what wins.

[WG]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Another slanted poll- What's next "When have you stopped beating your wife?'

You have already made your mind up that we have no pass rush.

If you were really interested in taking the fan's temperature on the team's chances your choices should be -

1) Can they get far if a pass rush doesn't materialize?
2) Can they win a championship if it does materialize?
3) Wait and see-





I think i'll start a poll-

If a Piano fell on Drew Bledsoe's head tomorrow, how would that impact the Bills Championship drive? -

-Negligible

- Slight

- It will affect us but not immensely.

-It will have definitely have strong impact and we should have done more in this area in the offseason!

-Unless we get rid of all pianos , we shouldn't expect to advance in the playoffs.

Ya know, it's funny. W/ stuff like this, it's "wait and see." W/ guys like Posey and Jones, I'm a buffoon for not seeing TD's splendor in picking them up.

Sorry, I didn't realize that Jones was gonna play like Douglas this season and that Posey was Talley reincarnated!

I'm sorry that you also seem to think that Adams is some sort of pass-rushing specialist since he's all that we've added on our DL up until now. BOY, if only Adams matches his season high sacks of TWO (2) over the past 5 seasons this season, I could surely be proven wrong, eh!

Ahhh, but I guess we'll pass rush Spikes and Posey on every defensive down this year. Gosh, that sure would be great. No D.C. would figure that out after too long...

:rolleyes:

[WG]

Oh, I almost forgot, McKenzie might match his season high sacks of 3 over the past three seasons and make us forget all about our DL's pass rushing stars like Ahanotu last year.

Don't you have a season preview of how McKenzie figures to make the Pro Bowl this year coming out soon?

:D

[WG]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
If a Piano fell on Drew Bledsoe's head tomorrow, how would that impact the Bills Championship drive? -

-Negligible

- Slight

- It will affect us but not immensely.

-It will have definitely have strong impact and we should have done more in this area in the offseason!

-Unless we get rid of all pianos , we shouldn't expect to advance in the playoffs.

Actually, I think it would help us immensely! :D

[Dozerdog]

Didn't say they were great.

It's just that you start out with a completely formulated opinion and ask others to make a choice in a poll based on unbased assumptions.

We added 5- 6 new starters to the defense (50% turnover) and without them taking a snap they stink.

[Typ0]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Schoebel yet. With the middle stuffed up better he could turn out to be a monster pass rusher when he's on the field. I'm just not ready to say we don't have a championship calibre pass rush until I see the mix on the field and how they work together. The potential is definately there the question is will the team apply themselves appropriately to reach that potential.

[WG]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Didn't say they were great.

It's just that you start out with a completely formulated opinion and ask others to make a choice in a poll based on unbased assumptions.

We added 5- 6 new starters to the defense (50% turnover) and without them taking a snap they stink.

We did?

I see 4 definites:

Adams, DE, Posey, and Spikes.

Where are the other two certain starting changes?

Now, of those, DE is an enormous stretch to say that it's improved thus far. As I've pointed out, contrary to some faulty notion that you have that Adams is some sort of enormous pass rusher when he only has 29 sacks in 9 seasons w/ only 9 of those occurring over the past 5 seasons, we haven't made any changes at all really to our DL from a pass rushing perspective.

Yes, if and when Jones becomes the player that apparently you have him penciled in for, then our pass rush may be tremendously improved from last year's from the perspective of the DL. Not until. In fact, I would say that it's wiser to assume that he'll be more the player he was in his last full season played where he had only 3 sacks than the single decent season he's post pre-injury in what, 6 seasons.

Secondly, I actually took this notion that we don't have a championship caliber pass rush from one of the WNY Bills/Sports reporters and asked the question.

Nevertheless, unless, and if and only when, Posey/Spikes make up for the lack of pressure off the corners, I would suggest that from our DL, we can't expect a whole lot more than we got last season. Since that production was low, I would then correspondingly suggest that it may not be very high in contrast to other teams this year either.

Silly, I know. For you, it's wait and see when it befits the argument, but for now we're all supposed to acquiesse to your "completely unformulated opinion" that we're gonna have a tremendous pass rush when every writer who has a clue on the Bills is concerned about it.

Sorry. Don't chime in then!

[WG]

Originally posted by Typ0
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Schoebel yet. With the middle stuffed up better he could turn out to be a monster pass rusher when he's on the field. I'm just not ready to say we don't have a championship calibre pass rush until I see the mix on the field and how they work together. The potential is definately there the question is will the team apply themselves appropriately to reach that potential.

I'm hopin' the same, but keep in mind that Schobel is no speed demon and we had him last year. He may free up a tad, but w/o some good pressure, other than the very average pressure that we've had last year, on the other end, I don't see a huge increase. Our secondary is solid, esp. at the corners, but a good QB w/ time and WRs can do some damage if he gets more than a few seconds often.

I still think, along w/ a good chunk of the rest of WNY sports media, that's it's our biggest and most consequential concern from a 'starting players' perspective.

[yle]

I think what we have now can be no worse than the group of draft busts and underachievers we were using last year. I am going to at least give them a few games before writing them off.

[Tatonka]

:rolleyes:

[Tatonka]

i was looking for the "our pass rush will be fine" option.. but couldnt seem to find it..

hmmm

oh.. must be a wys thread :D

[WG]

Sorry T. The question was simply meant to provide a contrast w/ last year's pass rush. Since last year's was really bad, I figured since we hadn't added any given/proven talents at pass-rushing w/o a bus load of issues along the DL, that it was a fair question.

I guess I and the rest of the UNY media are incorrect. Adams what, 7 sacks, Williams, 10, Schobel 12, and our ghost DE surely will come close to beating Smith's team record.

Sorry! I didn't mean to bring it up so sorely...

:rolleyes:

[Tatonka]

we had 12 less sacks than tampa.. less than ONE a game difference...

[WG]

Of all people T, you having this argument.

:rolleyes:

It's called an indication. Say it w/ me slowly now...

In-di-ca-tion. Indication!

It's indicative of having a pass rush. Are then saying that our pass rush was really only a notch below T.B.'s???

Because this difference that you are poo-pooing is also the difference between the 7th ranked team in sacks v. the 25th ranked team and one that distinguished the league's top defensive unit and one that was only average v. the pass and largely for reasons other than their pass rush.

That's a difference in the rankings of 18 spots!!!

I realize that to you that may be inconsequential, but the reality of it suggests that it's a huge difference. Just like 8 sacks for Rob were all the world.

[WG]

BTW, here are some other stats since you apparently think that our D was all of a sudden good at rushing the passer and essentially effective I guess.

Passing yards allowed per game:

T.B.: 155.6 (1st)
Bills: 191.7 (6th) largely b/c teams could run for as much and didn't have to throw the ball to score.

Passing TDs allowed:

T.B.: 10 (1st)
Bills: 24 (T-22nd)

INTs:

T.B.: 31 (1st)
Bills: 10 (T-26th, 4 way)

[WG]

Maybe pressure generally speaking was a huge issue instead of singlehandedly measuring the effectiveness of our pass-rush on sacks alone and making a completely loose judgment outside the context of sacks statistics wasn't all that wise, eh. ;)

[HenryRules]

I don't see our pass rush being that much worse than Oakland's or Tennessee's were last year (the AFC finalists).

[EDS]

I think the overall addition of talent and experience will improve the pass rush in particular and the D in general. The secondary got some much needed experience last year, which should help give the pass rushers more time. We increased the depth of the secondary as well w/ Thomas (more experience), Sidney and Reese. We vastly improved the talent at LB. Spikes is arguably now the Bills most talented and skilled defender whose presence alone creates opportunities.

The DL is also improved from a year ago because of the additional experience gained by Schobel, Edwards et al. Jones and McKenzie certaintly are not sure things, but they are more talented then Chidi and should, even conservatively speaking, upgrade that position.

The overall improvement of the experience and talent of the defense will improve the pass rush. I really think the secondary will be better b/c of experience and depth and the LBs are immensly upgraded. Those additions, plus any contribution Adams makes to the run D will have a impact on the pass rush.