Start Fitz

[Mitchell55]

He gets the ball to the stars. He doesnt even think about making most throws and goes through reads very quick and pump fakes


http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d80c8774f

http://www.nfl.com/videos/jacksonville-jaguars/09000d5d80c2459c


http://www.nfl.com/videos/cincinnati-bengals/09000d5d80ca9728


Even on the INTs there when hes forcing it to TJ. All the passes but 4 went to TJ, Chad, or Henry and all the TDs came with him throwing in the endzone. 90% of the passes where intermediate throws too.

[Mudflap1]

Starting Fitzpatrick doesn't really do anything. Fitzpatrick is a career backup. The problems are larger than just the QB, just the coach, etc. There are problems everywhere, and it starts with leadership, the front office, and then the head coach.

Given the way the offensive line is playing, Edwards will be knocked out for most, if not all the season soon enough. So Fitzpatrick will end up playing.

[more cowbell]

lol

[Dude]

He gets the ball to the stars???? You do realize that his primary receivers last year consisted of Johnson, Houshmanzadeh, and Henry, right? It's not like he could be selective.

[OpIv37]

why would we start Fitz?

He's a career backup- he's not a starter in this league. This season is gone. Give it to Edwards. Maybe, by some miracle, he'll turn it around and become an NFL QB. More than likely, he'll continue to play like crap. Either way, we'll know which one it is at the end of the season.

[topher180]

omg...dude...no

It's sad when every couple of years you see threads like this. Start ________ now! Bench _______ he SUX!!! It's always spelled that way too. S-U-X. Makes me giggle.

[Mitchell55]

He gets the ball to the stars???? You do realize that his primary receivers last year consisted of Johnson, Houshmanzadeh, and Henry, right? It's not like he could be selective.



Trents primary recievers are Evans and Owens and he still manages to pass it to everyone but them.

[Mitchell55]

why would we start Fitz?

He's a career backup- he's not a starter in this league. This season is gone. Give it to Edwards. Maybe, by some miracle, he'll turn it around and become an NFL QB. More than likely, he'll continue to play like crap. Either way, we'll know which one it is at the end of the season.



Hes only played 1 year in his career which is 3 years worth. Give him a shot.

[Pinkerton Security]

Lets breakdown your post:

Pros for Fitz are as follows:

- forces throws to stars
-doesnt think, just slings the ball (which isnt true at all)
-pump fakes!!1! woooo



why is this guy not a hall of famer already with that resume!?

starting fitz accomplishes nothing other than satisfying our own urges to be mad at Trent. As it stands now i want Trent out at the end of the year, I just want to see him the rest of the year.

[tampabay25690]

Starting Fitzpatrick doesn't really do anything. Fitzpatrick is a career backup. The problems are larger than just the QB, just the coach, etc. There are problems everywhere, and it starts with leadership, the front office, and then the head coach.

Given the way the offensive line is playing, Edwards will be knocked out for most, if not all the season soon enough. So Fitzpatrick will end up playing.

ARE starting QB is a career backup as well so why not give him a try.

[yordad]

I think we owe it to the other players to give Fitz a try if Trent has another game like the last one.

[Crisis]

He gets the ball to the stars. He doesnt even think about making most throws and goes through reads very quick and pump fakes


http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d80c8774f

http://www.nfl.com/videos/jacksonville-jaguars/09000d5d80c2459c


http://www.nfl.com/videos/cincinnati-bengals/09000d5d80ca9728


Even on the INTs there when hes forcing it to TJ. All the passes but 4 went to TJ, Chad, or Henry and all the TDs came with him throwing in the endzone. 90% of the passes where intermediate throws too.

http://i34.tinypic.com/30m2scj.jpg

[soapman]

http://i34.tinypic.com/30m2scj.jpg

Hilarious. Fitz actually looks alot better then Trent IMO. At least he throws to the wideouts and can actually hit them in stride. And he's not scared to take a chance and let the WO make a play on a ball. But the one thing that worries me is because look at all three of those videos and the one thing that is missing in his game that TE does have, is a big arm. Not one deep throw. IMO I say either dial up Jeff Garcia, or give the season to Hammy and see if he can turn it around.

[Dude]

Trents primary recievers are Evans and Owens and he still manages to pass it to everyone but them.You need to study up on other teams before you make comparisons to them son.

[yordad]

You need to study up on other teams before you make comparisons to them son. You said....

He gets the ball to the stars???? You do realize that his primary receivers last year consisted of Johnson, Houshmanzadeh, and Henry, right? It's not like he could be selective.I fail to see what makes Mitchells comparison ludicrous. We have Lee and Owens. There is no excuse for not giving them the rock. If you think Fine, Parrish, and Schouman are good reasons for not throwing to our primary WRs then you have left me speechless.

[justasportsfan]

Fitz may not be better but I'm sure he'll throw the ball and maybe get intercepted 20 yds down instead of 5-10 out close to where the D can twikle toe for a TD.

I rememberer AJ Feely when he played for the fins. He kept throwing TD's for the other team.

[Dude]

I fail to see what makes Mitchells comparison ludicrous. We have Lee and Owens. There is no excuse for not giving them the rock. If you think Fine, Parrish, and Schouman are good reasons for not throwing to our primary WRs then you have left me speechless.As I already said, the Bengals had no other viable receiving options but the "stars" last year. It's not like Fitz made a conscious choice to only throw to them. It's a bad comparison, and a faulty basis for starting him over Edwards.

Just say "Edwards sucks" and you have a better reason.

[trapezeus]

i'm not sure you are going to get a different result if you started peyton manning back there. edwards looked like crap behind a crap line. He looked effective behind a decent one.

AVP better see in the film this week that the only pass that allowed receivers to get open and give edwards time was a roll out. With KirK Chambers and Jon Scott as tackles, this is your only shot. It also makes edwards just have to focus on half the field. There is no way this line is going to create a pocket with these guys in there.

The bills are full blown trauma right now. They may need to find some gimmicks to keep teams from t-ing off on them.

And for the love of god, let fred jackson get into rhythm. then bring ML in for the second half to wear them down.

[justasportsfan]

i'm not sure you are going to get a different result if you started peyton manning back there. edwards looked like crap behind a crap line. He looked effective behind a decent one.

AVP better see in the film this week that the only pass that allowed receivers to get open and give edwards time was a roll out. With KirK Chambers and Jon Scott as tackles, this is your only shot. It also makes edwards just have to focus on half the field. There is no way this line is going to create a pocket with these guys in there.

The bills are full blown trauma right now. They may need to find some gimmicks to keep teams from t-ing off on them.

And for the love of god, let fred jackson get into rhythm. then bring ML in for the second half to wear them down.
we said the same thing about the other qb and you guys wouldn't accept it. Trent has more weapons

[trapezeus]

You can't correlate the two. JP wouldn't be throwing any better. I realize you have a point that the line may have hindered JP, but JP was spectacularly bad. Edwards is bad but salvagable at this point. JP sunk to the bottom very quickly.

There is very little reason to debate this. If you'd like me to say, "you were right, JP is better than Edwards," You aren't going to get that. If you want me to say, "the line is bad and you were saying that for a while" i'll give you that.

But JP is still a much lesser QB than Edwards, and right now edwards is pretty bad.

[yordad]

As I already said, the Bengals had no other viable receiving options but the "stars" last year. It's not like Fitz made a conscious choice to only throw to them. It's a bad comparison, and a faulty basis for starting him over Edwards.

Just say "Edwards sucks" and you have a better reason.IMO, when you have Lee Evans and TO on the outside, it doesn't matter who your other weapons are. You find ways to get them the ball. As good as Jackson is, their is no way he should have more catches the TO and Evans combined.

[justasportsfan]

You can't correlate the two. JP wouldn't be throwing any better. I realize you have a point that the line may have hindered JP, but JP was spectacularly bad. Edwards is bad but salvagable at this point. JP sunk to the bottom very quickly..
and Trent isn't spectacularly bad especially against crappy teams like the Browns? THe browns OWN Trents arse and it's mostly because of Trent and not the rest of the team. The borwns have had the crappiest D for years and they own Trent.

If you can't see that then you're definitely a Trent fan.


There is very little reason to debate this..Obviously because you're using the same excuses we've said about JP.


If you'd like me to say, "you were right, JP is better than Edwards," You aren't going to get that. If you want me to say, "the line is bad and you were saying that for a while" i'll give you that. .
I don't need for you to tell me JP is better than Trent. All I'm doing is pointing out your double standards and that you've become what we were accused of.




But JP is still a much lesser QB than Edwards, and right now edwards is pretty bad. Understandable, you're a Trent fan. Unlike you, I think both qb's are equal and both qb's have their own strength and weakneses but both were screwed by a crappy runned organization.

[Dude]

IMO, when you have Lee Evans and TO on the outside, it doesn't matter who your other weapons are. You find ways to get them the ball. As good as Jackson is, their is no way he should have more catches the TO and Evans combined.OK. That has nothing to do with what I said, but I'm with you.

[Mahdi]

He gets the ball to the stars???? You do realize that his primary receivers last year consisted of Johnson, Houshmanzadeh, and Henry, right? It's not like he could be selective.
Trent is pretty selective. He selects Fine and Schouman despite having Owens and Evans.

Everyone notice that Nelson was not a factor last week despite being on the field a lot. My guess is Nelson ran too far and too fast for Trent to throw it to him.

[Dude]

I wasn't talking about Trent.

[yordad]

Trent is pretty selective. He selects Fine and Schouman despite having Owens and Evans.

Everyone notice that Nelson was not a factor last week despite being on the field a lot. My guess is Nelson ran too far and too fast for Trent to throw it to him.lol

[trapezeus]

justa, i was done with JP when he flamed out. i'm slowly losing faith in Trent. I don't think that he's going to be our long term solution. In fact i know that. So i'm exactly a trent fan.

When JP's time here was done, i said that and you and a handful of people wanted to make it sound like he could be successful somewhere else. he can't. End of story.

One of the big issues with JP is that he kept getting put in and pulled so that we stuck with him longer than we should. Now Trent should just stay in there for the season so that there is zero reason to bring him back. He will have had his three years and he will have failed.

I'm just not sure why you still find the need to defend losman. We're debating on which one is worse? why. Trent showed signs of being a good game manager and he's regressed, the line sucks and the show is slowly getting over for him.

You won't see me next year talking about how Trent should still be back here as starter or should get a shot somewhere else. It's a what have you done for me lately league and he's done nothing.

[justasportsfan]

When JP's time here was done, i said that and you and a handful of people wanted to make it sound like he could be successful somewhere else. he can't. End of story..This is where it's hilarious. You pretty much agree that his situation was mishnadled here yet you are so sure he's done.

He's still playing. Did you read the article. Was it over for guys like Garcia, Moon and Flutie when they played for the CFL? Was it over for Warner when he played in arena league? You may be right but you could be wrong too but you're so sure of yourself. Oh well.


One of the big issues with JP is that he kept getting put in and pulled so that we stuck with him longer than we should. Now Trent should just stay in there for the season so that there is zero reason to bring him back. He will have had his three years and he will have failed. .




I'm just not sure why you still find the need to defend losman. .I'm not defending Losman, I'm pointing out your double standards and you guys that once bashed JP are using the same excues for Trent. ;)



We're debating on which one is worse? why. . you're the one attempting to ,I'm just responding.



Trent showed signs of being a good game manager and he's regressed, the line sucks and the show is slowly getting over for him. . yeah we used the Ol excused and we got called idiots.


You won't see me next year talking about how Trent should still be back here as starter or should get a shot somewhere else. It's a what have you done for me lately league and he's done nothing.

I actually want to see Trent with a REAL HC who knows whats he's doing. Coaches can bring out the best and the worst in players and Dick is doing the latter.

[Pinkerton Security]

Trent is pretty selective. He selects Fine and Schouman despite having Owens and Evans.

Everyone notice that Nelson was not a factor last week despite being on the field a lot. My guess is Nelson ran too far and too fast for Trent to throw it to him.

idk if this is true at all but i think nelson didnt catch any passes because he was too busy blocking when he was in, we were too scared to leave our tackles alone.

[Mahdi]

I wasn't talking about Trent.
I know... you are saying that Fitz only had Chad, Housh and Henry to throw to so its not like he could be selective...

Well Im saying Trent has the same "PROBLEM" having Owens, Evans and Reed.

The difference is that Fitz used his WRs in Cinci....

Trent has solved the "who is the #1 receiver between Evans and Owens" question....


Make them your #4 and #5 WRs.

[VegasFan]

Why not Fitz, what has Trent done this year to keep him in there. Brady was a backup, so, you never know.

[yordad]

When JP's time here was done, i said that and you and a handful of people wanted to make it sound like he could be successful somewhere else. he can't. End of story.

You do not know, so stop pretending it is the end of a story.

[Pinkerton Security]

I know... you are saying that Fitz only had Chad, Housh and Henry to throw to so its not like he could be selective...

Well Im saying Trent has the same "PROBLEM" having Owens, Evans and Reed.

The difference is that Fitz used his WRs in Cinci....

Trent has solved the "who is the #1 receiver between Evans and Owens" question....


Make them your #4 and #5 WRs.


he "used" his receivers to the tune of 146 yards per game total, .6 TDs per game, .64 INTs a game and a 70 QB rating.

he may have used his WR's slightly more but that doesnt make him a better QB.

[trapezeus]

Justa, i think we are saying the same things in confrontation tones.

I know garcia was successful, i know moon was successful. Losman won't be. that's my opinion. You have your's that he could come back. He just doesn't make any passes other than the long one. He had a better line during his time and didn't get the job done. He had time to throw but never made a decision.

Trent makes decisions, but they are the wrong ones and often the safe ones. And that brings its own set of problems.

Next year, this team needs more OL depth. Trent looked like a game manager in the first two games. The next two he looked awful. The depth of QB's in the draft is ok, not great. This team needs to keep building the line to be able to withstand a few injuries and still perform. If trent or some other guy wants to be the guy back there for this year and next it doesn't matter. After that is solidified, they will then have the luxury of using a journeyman or a high pick to nail down a QB who can make the reads and make the passes on a the passing tree.

I just don't see the infatuation of wanting to prove that at some point down the road JP will be a servicable NFL player. Yordad and you are the only ones who are so sure of this. that smacks of being a player fan first.

[Mahdi]

he "used" his receivers to the tune of 146 yards per game total, .6 TDs per game, .64 INTs a game and a 70 QB rating.

he may have used his WR's slightly more but that doesnt make him a better QB.
Not arguing that Fitz is better... but can it really get worse?

[justasportsfan]

Justa, i think we are saying the same things in confrontation tones.

I know garcia was successful, i know moon was successful. Losman won't be. that's my opinion. You have your's that he could come back. He just doesn't make any passes other than the long one. He had a better line during his time and didn't get the job done. He had time to throw but never made a decision. .
END of story means it's a fact.


Trent makes decisions, but they are the wrong ones and often the safe ones. And that brings its own set of problems. .
which is why I said they both have different strengths and weaknesses but you already decided those of us who used the same excuses on JP were wrong but those very same excuses only work when you apply them to Trent. Should we say "Trent is done .End of Story"?



I just don't see the infatuation of wanting to prove that at some point down the road JP will be a servicable NFL player. Yordad and you are the only ones who are so sure of this. that smacks of being a player fan first.Or the infatuation that you are right about the future and those of us that may have a different opinion are WRONG . You don't have a crystal ball otherwise I want the LOTTo nos please.

[trapezeus]

the point is that you and yordad had some interest in keeping JP last year....and if not keep him to see him get a better shot somewhere else.

If i were a betting man. i would never side with JP succeeding in the NFL again. Maybe at best he would do a todd collins and win 6 games in a pinch and then disappear just as fast.

You look at the mechanics of JP vs Trent and you see a guy who is trying to beat everyone with raw talent and no understanding of the game vs. a guy who is trying to just win with short passes.

I think Trent under a good line is an accurate passer and maybe a better coach can get him to take chances down field. i don't think JP can be coached to do anything other than wait for the long guy to get open and then throw it as far as he can.

So my frustration is that you think that Trent and Losman's failures are conencted. They are not. Losman was a bad QB who failed us. And Trent is a qb that could theoretically succeed as a manager behind better OL. That has nothing to do with being a trent fan or Losman hater. I rooted for both guys out the get go and from watching the games, these are my opinions. I think a lot of people share my opinion.

[justasportsfan]

the point is that you and yordad had some interest in keeping JP last year....and if not keep him to see him get a better shot somewhere else.. and our excuses for that are the same excuses you're making for Trent.


If i were a betting man. i would never side with JP succeeding in the NFL again. Maybe at best he would do a todd collins and win 6 games in a pinch and then disappear just as fast..
I thought it's a done deal. End of story. I need those lotto nos. please.


You look at the mechanics of JP vs Trent and you see a guy who is trying to beat everyone with raw talent and no understanding of the game vs. a guy who is trying to just win with short passes. .. and? that doesn't mean one is better than the other but in your opinion one is better than the other even though the results prove otherwise.

Again, I'm not saying one is better than the other. You're the one implying that and you have nothing.



I think Trent under a good line is an accurate passer and maybe a better coach can get him to take chances down field. i don't think JP can be coached to do anything other than wait for the long guy to get open and then throw it as far as he can. .. there you go again making comparisons. How do you know JP can't be coached? Has he had a decent coach? I'm not saying he's going to succeed or fail, but you keep bringing back you crystal ball.




So my frustration is that you think that Trent and Losman's failures are conencted. They are not. Losman was a bad QB who failed us. And Trent is a qb that could theoretically succeed as a manager behind better OL. That has nothing to do with being a trent fan or Losman hater. I rooted for both guys out the get go and from watching the games, these are my opinions. I think a lot of people share my opinion.like I said. Double standards. You're excuses only apply to one qb. A lot of people have double standards.

[trapezeus]

arguing with you is impossible.

If you want to solely rely on his stats from 2007 season as number 11 rated passer where he routinely racked up 157 yards on 7 completions and took a number of sacks and had a disaster number of 3 and outs...that's your thing. you are free to revise history as you see fit.

Having watched both play, there is more reason for a reasonable person to think Trent can be coached and protected to be a game manager and JP can't. Add in the fact that JP is older and more broken.

Whether he sucks or wwas poorly coached into suck...his time is over. I know it. I don't need to see him play again. And i'll be more than happy to proclaim your brilliance if he does end up in the NFL again and play better than he did in buffalo.

my belief that Trent is the better quarterback is like debating that Beavis is the smarter one between Beavis and butthead.

[justasportsfan]

arguing with you is impossible.

If you want to solely rely on his stats from 2007 season as number 11 rated passer where he routinely racked up 157 yards on 7 completions and took a number of sacks and had a disaster number of 3 and outs...that's your thing. you are free to revise history as you see fit.

Having watched both play, there is more reason for a reasonable person to think Trent can be coached and protected to be a game manager and JP can't. Add in the fact that JP is older and more broken.

Whether he sucks or wwas poorly coached into suck...his time is over. I know it. I don't need to see him play again. And i'll be more than happy to proclaim your brilliance if he does end up in the NFL again and play better than he did in buffalo.

my belief that Trent is the better quarterback is like debating that Beavis is the smarter one between Beavis and butthead.


Here's my opinion about your opinions, you watched one qb with rose colored glasses will always give you a different outlook about the other even though you say they share the same excuses. So yes, we won't ever share the same opinion.

Again, I don't think one is better than the other but you keep insisting and bringing that up.

[mybills]

JP = TE.
They both have strengths, but their weakness over powers it.

[Philagape]

If you want to solely rely on his stats from 2007 season as number 11 rated passer where he routinely racked up 157 yards on 7 completions and took a number of sacks and had a disaster number of 3 and outs...that's your thing. you are free to revise history as you see fit.


You know what's funny about the "11th-rated passer" line?

Trent's 08 rating is better than JPUFL's 06 rating.

So if the treehouse club of JPUFL fans want to talk about rating, Trent's already beaten JPUFL's best year. Oops ... there goes that spin. :flush:

Trent has still helped the team win at a much higher rate than JPUFL. This year, Trent's had 2 good games and 2 bad games. With JPUFL, only one of his last 11 games was a good one, against Cincinnati.
Trent may be Captain Checkdown, but JPUFL led the league in checking down last year. He was never good at intermediates either and wasn't accurate at the long ones. That's one reason why he lost his job. Trent at least used to do it.

JPUFL fans are in their own little world. And it's very lonely there. Nobody in the NFL wanted him, because they all know better.
JPUFL fans are just channeling their humiliation into rage at Edwards, but all they're doing is just further showing what hypocrites they are, because they always gave JPUFL passes even though he consistently played worse. And that they think they're vindicated just further shows how much they truly just do not get it at all and are utterly incapable of evaluating the position.
Anyone who thought JPUFL could still be a good NFL QB as recently as last year should have their opinions about anything disqualified for the rest of their lives. That's like picking Mondale to win in 1984.

[justasportsfan]

You know what's funny about the "11th-rated passer" line?

Trent's 08 rating is better than JPUFL's 06 rating.

So if the treehouse club of JPUFL fans want to talk about rating, Trent's already beaten JPUFL's best year. Oops ... there goes that spin. :flush:

Trent has still helped the team win at a much higher rate than JPUFL. This year, Trent's had 2 good games and 2 bad games. With JPUFL, only one of his last 11 games was a good one, against Cincinnati.
Trent may be Captain Checkdown, but JPUFL led the league in checking down last year. He was never good at intermediates either and wasn't accurate at the long ones. That's one reason why he lost his job. Trent at least used to do it.

JPUFL fans are in their own little world. And it's very lonely there. Nobody in the NFL wanted him, because they all know better.
JPUFL fans are just channeling their humiliation into rage at Edwards, but all they're doing is just further showing what hypocrites they are, because they always gave JPUFL passes even though he consistently played worse. And that they think they're vindicated just further shows how much they truly just do not get it at all and are utterly incapable of evaluating the position.
Anyone who thought JPUFL could still be a good NFL QB as recently as last year should have their opinions about anything disqualified for the rest of their lives. That's like picking Mondale to win in 1984.

here's another Trent licker.

[Mike13]

Wow Losman was a failure in the NFL and people are still defending him.

[mybills]

Looks like more people are defending Trentwad.

[Pinkerton Security]

Wow Losman was a failure in the NFL and people are still defending him.

how has this turned into a JP vs. Trent thread?!?!

[Philagape]

Looks like more people are defending Trentwad.

It's no credit or defense to point out he's better than JPUFL. That's saying nothing.

[trapezeus]

because justa is here.

No one is defending Trent. Just when you compare Trent's struggle to JP's struggles, they aren't the same. I'm defending the argument more than the guy.

I'm telling you as clearly as possible that Trent is losing my faith, but as is the case with all bills players, after 3 years if you haven't proven that you should be here, then you shouldn't. Trent is falling apart at the seams.

But i also think that this line in the last two weeks can't run block or pass block. Last years like was at least decent at pass protection...and they didn't get injured up front to be replaced by no names.

Justa is trying to just use straw man logic to defend that JP was a better choice. He excells at that. And it's frustrating because i was even trying to give him the credit he deserves for calling out the coaching (which i never was a big fan of jauron but was willing to see what happened since that is what we were served) as well as give credit that Trent was not a long term solution (which i actually thought was possible.)

[yordad]

It's no credit or defense to point out he's better than JPUFL. That's saying nothing accurate.Fixed that for you.

[yordad]

Justa is trying to just use straw man logic to defend that JP was a better choice. I think he is simply pointing out that some Bills fans are using the same arguments/excuses for Trent that the same posters once said were irrelevant when used in defense of JP. I do not think he is, at this point, claiming one is awesome and the other sucks.

[Philagape]

Fixed that for you.

More people think the moon landing was faked than agree with you.

[Cntrygal]

If Fitz was in... then Dick would game plan differently?

[trapezeus]

no one is claiming Trent is awesome. We are willingly saying he has his issues. He still is the better qb of the two. AS i said, beavis is the more cerebral between him and butthead, but what does that do for you?

Come on. Every other qb that's come and gone, we forget about. but you guys really love losman. We all said good riddance to bledsoe a lot easier. And he actually was a good QB in his time.

You two twist a lot of stuff to make ti seem like JP was just wronged. He may have been wronged but he wasn't very good. Trent may be wronged, but he's proving to not be very good.

[yordad]

More people think the moon landing was faked than agree with you.Um.... I would bet 10000000 zbs that this is a false statement.

[justasportsfan]

I think he is simply pointing out that some Bills fans are using the same arguments/excuses for Trent that the same posters once said were irrelevant when used in defense of JP. I do not think he is, at this point, claiming one is awesome and the other sucks.
thank you. I've stated several times that they failed under the same circumstances but trap is twisting my words to try and hide his double standards.

[justasportsfan]

no one is claiming Trent is awesome. We are willingly saying he has his issues. He still is the better qb of the two. see , he asks me why we're comparing the two when he is the one who keeps saying one is better than the other.

[Luisito23]

Starting Fitz might not change anything, but it would at least give me something to get somewhat exited about.

[BillsWin]

If Fitz was a late round rookie we took a flier on, then yeah we could start him soon to see what we got in him.

But he is not.

Benching Edwards doesnt do much for this franchise.

[Crisis]

fitz is what he is, a career backup. trent has shown some potential that if he can correct his problems can be a good qb, i'd rather waste a season finding out what we have in our starter than what we have in a career backup.

starting fitz isn't going to push this team into the playoffs, its nothing more than a panic move and would only show how much more of a JOKE this franchise is if they started fitz.

[Jimbuktu]

I've got a fever, and the only prescription is ...









NALL BALL!

[yordad]

I just don't see the infatuation of wanting to prove that at some point down the road JP will be a servicable NFL player. Yordad and you are the only ones who are so sure of this. that smacks of being a player fan first. How does rooting for an ex-player to succeed indicate anything about how I feel about the Bills? Did you not want Bruce Smith to succeed in Washington? How about Winfield in Minny? Guys like Clements and McGahee are the exception.

the point is that you and yordad had some interest in keeping JP last year....and if not keep him to see him get a better shot somewhere else.

You look at the mechanics of JP vs Trent and you see a guy who is trying to beat everyone with raw talent and no understanding of the game vs. a guy who is trying to just win with short passes.
I will take raw talent and heart over a politician playing QB any day of my life. I want a guy with the potential to explode, not a guy with the potential to manage.

I think JPs biggest "problem" was he was trying to make a play on a team that lacked talent. For some reason people wanted a guy who would "go with the flow". IMO, if that flow is the crappest flow in football, I do not want my QB to go with it.

Two years later some of you are begging for TO to throw Jauron under the bus, but when JP hinted at it, yall called him a locker room cancer.

Game managing QBs only work when you have playmakers elsewhere and a strong defense. But, Trent can't even manage to get his playmakers the ball. Heck, after week one the Bills ran a reverse out of the gates to get TO involved. Not exacly what we all had in mind, but it shows how much faith the Bills had in Trent to pass it to him, and that lack of faith was validated the following week (ZERO catches).

I wasn't opposed to replacing JP. I was opposed to replacing JP with Trent Edwards. I have given Trent all the opportunity in the world to prove me wrong. And, my wishful thinking almost had me convinced once or twice. But, come on now man. Trent is slowly squelching all hope I had had for him. And, that has nothing to do with JP.

I am on the "Lets make a trade for Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn" band wagon. And, I think it sucks that my wild dreams are so mediocre. :(

[trapezeus]

Trent's not working out.. JP was worse. That's my take. Yours is obviously different.

As for the last part, i would not trade for DErek Anderson or Brady quinn.

I think this year's draft class at QB is average and not a sure thing. Therefore, i'd roll again with Trent and Fitzpatrick and upgrade the line on both sides of the ball.

This team is losing games for a variety of reasons. And yes, trent is looking to be a major problem. But of all the problems, it comes down to the lines. Fix those first.

1. Linebackers
2. DT
3. More OL depth
4a. WR talent
4b. QB

That's how i'd look at free agency and the draft. Those are the most important areas to shore up this team and stop the bleeding.

[justasportsfan]

Trent's not working out.. JP was worse. That's my take. Yours is obviously different.

As for the last part, i would not trade for DErek Anderson or Brady quinn.

I think this year's draft class at QB is average and not a sure thing. Therefore, i'd roll again with Trent and Fitzpatrick and upgrade the line on both sides of the ball.

This team is losing games for a variety of reasons. And yes, trent is looking to be a major problem. But of all the problems, it comes down to the lines. Fix those first.

1. Linebackers
2. DT
3. More OL depth
4a. WR talent
4b. QB

That's how i'd look at free agency and the draft. Those are the most important areas to shore up this team and stop the bleeding.

You're finding ways and means (excuses) to keep Edwards. You are even trying to pin our problems on our wrs. Mkay!

[trapezeus]

I am pointing out where the issues are the greatest. You actually got 2 ok weeks of game management with a strong OL with Trent. You had better pass protection in the JP years and he did nothing other than roll out and kick the ball out of his own hands. But you read the tea leaves the way you like, and i'll read it the way I like. It's not a double standard like you keep saying. I'm telling you the same thing i said with JP. There are other issues with the team, but a good QB has to overcome that. JP didn't win a game last year. He wasn't competitive in any of those games. Trent isn't playing well and there are other issues. but a good qb has to find a way. He isn't the solution. But last year's line held pass blocking ok and Trent found a way to win 7 games. What did JP do?

Trent is not the long term answer, but every QB we bring in (especially young ones) will face the same problems of getting "ruined" with the lack of depth on our OL. So bring the line up to snuff and replace edwards with a veteran who can manage a game the following year and draft the heir that year. This is the only way to stop the carosuel at QB.

I'm a bit tired of saying the same thing that 99% of bills fans would say to have you try to twist it that i am long on Trent but ran JP out of town. JP ran himself out of town and trent is doing the same thing. how much clearer can i make that for you, justa?

As i said in a different post, outside of fredjackson, i don't really care what happens to anyone. We need a lot of changes. That OL is the first and foremost of our

[justasportsfan]

the issues are greatest in the wr position? Evans catches for over 1200 yards with a qb you said is stupid and TO has had his best years with the new teams he's played for in his first year with that team except here in buffalo and then you're telling me that the wr's have the greatest issues?


Only a Trent fan would say that.

You're telling us that Trent is following JP's footsteps but yet you want to keep him?

You're trying to blame the rest of the team for trents shortcomings when in the past you would blame JP for global warming.

You're not fooling anyone. You're a Trent fan.

[yordad]

Trent's not working out.. JP was worse. That's my take. Yours is obviously different.

As for the last part, i would not trade for DErek Anderson or Brady quinn.

I think this year's draft class at QB is average and not a sure thing. Therefore, i'd roll again with Trent and Fitzpatrick and upgrade the line on both sides of the ball.

This team is losing games for a variety of reasons. And yes, trent is looking to be a major problem. But of all the problems, it comes down to the lines. Fix those first.

1. Linebackers
2. DT
3. More OL depth
4a. WR talent
4b. QB

That's how i'd look at free agency and the draft. Those are the most important areas to shore up this team and stop the bleeding.Personally, if I could get Anderson on the cheap, which the Browns recent move would indicate, then I would. I would bench Edwards immediately in favor of Anderson. Then I would draft a QB 1st overall. And, next year Anderson could give the youngster up to a year to learn the ropes.

1. QB
2. QB
3. O-line
4a. LB
4b. DE

I think Edwards would make a solid backup, but this team needs a stopgap and a future. And I really don't think Edwards is good enough for either.

[trapezeus]

Trent would be more successful right this minute if they kept last year's line in place than JP. That was evident from last year's play...however, the team would still be unable to run the ball.

We can make the same mistakes and just change QB's and expect a different result and be beholden to the injury bug. or we can shore up the line once and for all and allow even a game manager to be successful.

There are no QB's worth pursuing early in the draft. This team has issues on both sides of the ball. QB is one, but the linebackers leave the middle of the field wide open on 3rd down still. The OL can't take 2 injuries. The DL is one injury away from having no one on the pass rush...and that already is nonexistant.

So if you want to twist my desire for real change that can actually bring about a winning season as a Trent fan, so be it. i think most people who aren't still trying to defend JP would say the same thing. There is a lot broken and the only so much you can fix each year.

and don't forget we can debate this again when your boy flames out in the UFL.

[trapezeus]

Personally, if I could get Anderson on the cheap, which the Browns recent move would indicate, then I would. I would bench Edwards immediately in favor of Anderson. Then I would draft a QB 1st overall. And, next year Anderson could give the youngster up to a year to learn the ropes.

1. QB
2. QB
3. O-line
4a. LB
4b. DE

I think Edwards would make a solid backup, but this team needs a stopgap and a future. And I really don't think Edwards is good enough for either.'

So next year you house edwards, anderson, fitz and a top draft pick on the team?Anderson isn't going to give you much different from what edwards is doing. So from a financial standpoint, why not run a cheap edwards at the end of his contract as opposed to anderson who would have just been signed to a deal? This way you can run edwards, draftpick and fitz for a cheaper and shorter term solution.

[justasportsfan]

Trent would be more successful right this minute if they kept last year's line in place than JP. .
if you think not pulling the trigger is better then thats your opinion.




We can make the same mistakes and just change QB's and expect a different result and be beholden to the injury bug. or we can shore up the line once and for all and allow even a game manager to be successful. . the Ol excuse to cover up Trent again.


There are no QB's worth pursuing early in the draft. .interpretation, I want to keep Trent.


Trap, any qb thats willing to throw the ball is better than one that won't.



So if you want to twist my desire for real change that can actually bring about a winning season as a Trent fan, so be it. i think most people who aren't still trying to defend JP would say the same thing. There is a lot broken and the only so much you can fix each year. .

You've given up on a young OL but you want to keep Trent. Okay.



and don't forget we can debate this again when your boy flames out in the UFL.
the truth comes out. You're a Trent fan.

[justasportsfan]

'

So next year you house edwards, anderson, fitz and a top draft pick on the team?Anderson isn't going to give you much different from what edwards is doing. So from a financial standpoint, why not run a cheap edwards at the end of his contract as opposed to anderson who would have just been signed to a deal? This way you can run edwards, draftpick and fitz for a cheaper and shorter term solution.
yeah , give Trent another year. Some people were calling other posters idiots for saying somthing like that.

[yordad]

and don't forget we can debate this again when your boy flames out in the UFL.I don't think you are even grasping the debate. This Debate is about Trent sucking. JP is irrelevant in this matter. Unless you are blaming Trent sucking this year on JP.... again.

No matter where JP is, the Bills still need a QB, because they have Trent, and Trent sucks. It has absolutely nothing to do with how good JP is.

JP is being mentioned because the excuses you are making are the same excuses you said where invalid when made in the defense of JP. JP's future cannot be foreseen, and doesn't have to be because it is irrelevant. And, your above comment proves you don't even know the topic of this debate.

The topic is Fitz now Vs Trent now Vs other options. JP is not an option, but only a tool to used to illustrate your double standard.

[trapezeus]

i'm not saying give trent another year because success is right around the corner like the JP contingent did for him...and apparently are still doing.

i'm saying give him another year because no one is going to succeed. Don't ruin a young guy and don't waste money on a midlevel free agency pick that'll do no more or less than Trent has shown he can do. put some better stuff up front and then slide a young QB who fits the profile of the offense we want to run behind a capable OL. That seemed to work for most teams where young QB's succeeded early.

It's just a short term answer if we pretend that changing the QB and locking money up there won't mean we essentially roll with the same poor depth OL.

[justasportsfan]

I don't think you are even grasping the debate. This Debate is about Trent sucking. JP is irrelevant in this matter. Unless you are blaming Trent sucking this year on JP.... again.

No matter where JP is, the Bills still need a QB, because they have Trent, and Trent sucks. It has absolutely nothing to do with how good JP is.

JP is being mentioned because the excuses you are making are the same excuses you said where invalid when made in the defense of JP. JP's future cannot be foreseen, and doesn't have to be because it is irrelevant. And, your above comment proves you don't even know the topic of this debate.

The topic is Fitz now Vs Trent now Vs other options. JP is not an option, but only a tool to used to illustrate your double standard.
he's trying to make it about JP to hide his fanhood and all the excuses for Trent that btw, are the same excuses made for JP except are only valid for trent. Go figure.

[yordad]

'

So next year you house edwards, anderson, fitz and a top draft pick on the team?Anderson isn't going to give you much different from what edwards is doing. So from a financial standpoint, why not run a cheap edwards at the end of his contract as opposed to anderson who would have just been signed to a deal? This way you can run edwards, draftpick and fitz for a cheaper and shorter term solution.From a financial standpoint? We haven't spent up to the self imposed cash to cap in years. The cap is about to disappear, and even if it wasn't the Bills are probably 100 million under it. You want me to make an imaginary football move based on how much money Ralph's children will inherit?

Anderson will throw the ball, that is all there is to it. Plain and simple, all options in replacing Edwards in the starting lineup should be explored right now. Do I think Anderson will take the Bills to the promise land? No, probably not. But, I do believe the players on this team deserve a QB who will throw the damn ball. Call me crazy.

As far as who is the third next year, who cares at this point. That is what camp competition is for. Fitz vs Edwards for third string has a nice sounding ring to it, IMO.

[trapezeus]

you two are the most ridiculous posters. I have no idea how JP came up in the first place. I just know the difference between a guy who won't succeed in the NFL ever vs a guy who isn't good enough to be a starter but is a capable back up.

I wanted trent to succeed, yes. JP's problems weren't with the OL or the receivers. He couldn't hit the side of a barn.

i think i've made my point and you've chosen not to listen to it. If it makes you feel better that you think i'm some die hard trent fan who is coddling trent and putting down JP, cool. For the sake of the board's sanity, i'm going to stop responding to this so it doesn't keep bumping up.

[yordad]

i'm not saying give trent another year because success is right around the corner like the JP contingent did for him...and apparently are still doing.
Apparently? Could you show me the quote that implies this? I am just curious.

[yordad]

you two are the most ridiculous posters. I have no idea how JP came up in the first place. I just know the difference between a guy who won't succeed in the NFL ever vs a guy who isn't good enough to be a starter but is a capable back up.

I wanted trent to succeed, yes. JP's problems weren't with the OL or the receivers. He couldn't hit the side of a barn.

i think i've made my point and you've chosen not to listen to it. If it makes you feel better that you think i'm some die hard trent fan who is coddling trent and putting down JP, cool. For the sake of the board's sanity, i'm going to stop responding to this so it doesn't keep bumping up.WHO CARES ABOUT JP! How does the fact you keep bringing up JP make Justa and I ridiculous?

The part I bolded for you is the only part that had relevance in this topic. It is all that matters at this point. And, in my opinion "Not good enough to be the starter" does not translate to "give the guy 28 more games" which is exactly what you are saying you want to do.

[yordad]

For the sake of the board's sanity, i'm going to stop responding to this so it doesn't keep bumping up.bump :snicker:

[Prov401]

He gets the ball to the stars. He doesnt even think about making most throws and goes through reads very quick and pump fakes


http://www.nfl.com/goto?id=09000d5d80c8774f

http://www.nfl.com/videos/jacksonville-jaguars/09000d5d80c2459c


http://www.nfl.com/videos/cincinnati-bengals/09000d5d80ca9728


Even on the INTs there when hes forcing it to TJ. All the passes but 4 went to TJ, Chad, or Henry and all the TDs came with him throwing in the endzone. 90% of the passes where intermediate throws too.

No.

[yordad]

I think what Fitz showed in that one game (first linked vid) is equal to, or better, that what Trent has showed in all his starts combined.

[SABURZFAN]

Wow Losman was a failure in the NFL and people are still defending him.


the Lickers will never let it go.

[SABURZFAN]

you two are the most ridiculous Lickers.


fixed :up:

[Mr. Pink]

221 of 372 1905 yards 8 TDs 9 INTs in 12 starts!

Yes!

Start him!

Oh wait, statistically he was worse than Edwards...ooops.

[SABURZFAN]

221 of 372 1905 yards 8 TDs 9 INTs in 12 starts!

Yes!

Start him!

Oh wait, statistically he was worse than Edwards...ooops.


the Lickers don't care. they just want Edwards to receive the same treatment that their hero got. it's the only thing that will soothe the butt hurt they received the last three years.