To Jim Kelly's point:

[HHURRICANE]

Trent has some excuses but it also sounds like he needs to start laying into people as well!!!

Jim Kelly:

"As I mentioned, you wish it was an easy fix to get this turned around, but they're struggling. When you have to max protect 10 to 15 times through the course of the game and you're only sending two wide receivers out it?s tough to be productive and successful offensively.

The players know they have to hold themselves accountable, but there has to be one specific individual to pull that group together whether it?s on the sidelines or in the locker room at halftime. I'm not in that locker room so perhaps that is being done. But it?s hard to say things are moving in the right direction right now."

[justasportsfan]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

Trent has some excuses but it also sounds like he needs to start laying into people as well!!!

Spoken like a true trent licker. Trent has to to start with himself.

[trapezeus]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

until trent starts making plays, how can he lay in to anyone? What can he say that doesn't sink the ship faster?

You have a qb throwing 2 3 yard passes. is he going to call out the WR's? they're just going to say, "we've been open for 4 weeks. You don't throw it to us."

Trent needs to lead by doing. and that's frustrating when the team doesn't do anything right.

If he was giving 100% every play, getting beaten up, scrambling and taking huge shots from defenders, then he'd get sympathy, but for the most part, he checks down before he gets killed. he needs to stand back in "the pocket" (it's not really much of one) and take a beating or start throwing into tight spaces. He either is going to get destroyed or he's going to make some good plays with a mix of bad plays.but he'll get more respect from the team and be in a better position to say, "i'm standing back there and getting killed...and i am only looking 10+ yards for plays and none of you are open." Then he'll have a case.

i also think they need to roll him out more. this line obviously isn't getting him 4 seconds. the snaps are low, then the pocket collapses, its not much time to look around. you roll out, then he only needs to see half the field, and he'll get more time to make a decision.

out of those roll outs, you open the team up to more reverses/misdirections. It'll keep defenses honest and potentially get a team sleeping on a big play.

[HHURRICANE]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

until trent starts making plays, how can he lay in to anyone? What can he say that doesn't sink the ship faster?

You have a qb throwing 2 3 yard passes. is he going to call out the WR's? they're just going to say, "we've been open for 4 weeks. You don't throw it to us."

Trent needs to lead by doing. and that's frustrating when the team doesn't do anything right.

If he was giving 100% every play, getting beaten up, scrambling and taking huge shots from defenders, then he'd get sympathy, but for the most part, he checks down before he gets killed. he needs to stand back in "the pocket" (it's not really much of one) and take a beating or start throwing into tight spaces. He either is going to get destroyed or he's going to make some good plays with a mix of bad plays.but he'll get more respect from the team and be in a better position to say, "i'm standing back there and getting killed...and i am only looking 10+ yards for plays and none of you are open." Then he'll have a case.

i also think they need to roll him out more. this line obviously isn't getting him 4 seconds. the snaps are low, then the pocket collapses, its not much time to look around. you roll out, then he only needs to see half the field, and he'll get more time to make a decision.

out of those roll outs, you open the team up to more reverses/misdirections. It'll keep defenses honest and potentially get a team sleeping on a big play.

If you have max protection and people are still getting to the QB and you only have two receiving options than you are screwed.

IMO he spent way too much trying to find someone deep and it was screwing his timing up on just getting rid of the ball.

You can't be trying to go deep with a line that can't even block on the quick slant.

[justasportsfan]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

If you have max protection and people are still getting to the QB and you only
You can't be trying to go deep with a line that can't even block on the quick slant.

he did it with Lee and TO last sunday . Sad attempt to blame the OL and not Trent for not pulling the trigger.

[BuffaloRanger]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

Slants!! Where are the Slants!!

3 step drop hit the WR in stride! Not behind him. Not 4 feet over his head.

In stride.

[The Juice Is Loose]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

yet another example of a great coaching staff

"Hangartner has trouble snapping it up out of shotgun"

LETS GO SHOTGUN EVERY PLAY!!!!!!!

[trapezeus]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

the few times it works, justa doesn't discount the number of times that he's getting sacked or getting people pushed into his lap.

you have to look at how quickly the pocket collapses most times. but that being said, there are enough times that he has times and checks down. and i'm with you on that.

it's not the long ball that he needs to hit. he needs to hit that 10-20 yard pass more regularly.

[justasportsfan]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

the few times it works, justa doesn't discount the number of times that he's getting sacked or getting people pushed into his lap. you have to look at how quickly the pocket collapses most times. but that being said, there are enough times that he has times and checks down. and i'm with you on that.

it's not the long ball that he needs to hit. he needs to hit that 10-20 yard pass more regularly.

BS. I never disagreed that the OL is a problem but you like to emphasize that it's mostly the OL problem more than Trent himself.

My problem with Trent is that even when he's had time he's to to try and throw the ball. He's like Rob Johnson, if the wr isn't open he won't throw it.




You problably loved Rob Johnson. The pocket collapsed faster when he was in there unlike when Flutie was the qb.


You can't tell me that Flutie always saw Moulds open being 5'10'. All he knew is that MOulds was 1 on 1 and he pulled the trigger and trusted MOulds to come down with it.


I know you're a Trent fan which is why you keep trying to blame the OL and the wr's.

He had time to throw hailmary's when the decided to dink the ball. That was a n OL problem right?

[DynaPaul]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

Aaron Rodgers threw for 400 yards with about as much time as Trent Edwards has in the pocket.

[justasportsfan]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

Aaron Rodgers threw for 400 yards with about as much time as Trent Edwards has in the pocket.

what excuses will Trap have now? That Rogers has better wrs?

[trapezeus]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

no, rogers is obviously taking chances and connecting. i am not disagreeing. but to pretend that 3 passes a game that connect proves that its all on edwards is assinine.

i've said a million times justa that edwards isn't doing what needs to be done.

i'm actually not as big a trent fan as you were to JP. And most of your arguements seem to stem from the fact that i thought JP was trash and wouldn't succeed in any situation. JP is like jauron for me. it doesn't matter what you give them, they'll find a way to lose.

Trent has been ok at times. particularly before butler went down. But that isn't good enough. it obviously doesn't get the job done. This OL is the youngest we've ever seen and it's injured. we've got journeymen and practice squaders filling in. if that doesn't click in your head that there is a problem...that's on you my friend.

In the miami game, he rolled out once and looked to throw the ball with more confidence on that play.

Anyways, spare everyone your pro JP agenda. The topic is that Jim kelly thinks there is more leadership needed. the only guy who can actually get up and complain is Fred jackson. he's the only guy along with schobel who can say, "i'm playing really well and i want to win games. meet my level of excellence or step aside and let someone else play." Those are the only 2 people of a 53 man squad in a position to be angry and to speak up.

[justasportsfan]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

no, rogers is obviously taking chances and connecting. i am not disagreeing. but to pretend that 3 passes a game that connect proves that its all on edwards is assinine.

i've said a million times justa that edwards isn't doing what needs to be done.

i'm actually not as big a trent fan as you were to JP. And most of your arguements seem to stem from the fact that i thought JP was trash and wouldn't succeed in any situation. JP is like jauron for me. it doesn't matter what you give them, they'll find a way to lose.

Trent has been ok at times. particularly before butler went down. But that isn't good enough. it obviously doesn't get the job done. This OL is the youngest we've ever seen and it's injured. we've got journeymen and practice squaders filling in. if that doesn't click in your head that there is a problem...that's on you my friend.

In the miami game, he rolled out once and looked to throw the ball with more confidence on that play.

the only guy who can actually get up and complain is Fred jackson. he's the only guy along with schobel who can say, "i'm playing really well and i want to win games. meet my level of excellence or step aside and let someone else play." Those are the only 2 people of a 53 man squad in a position to be angry and to speak up.

you are coming up with more excuses to blame others than Trent. Yes, I hear what you say about Trent that he's not getting it done but you say keep him anyways (I don't disagree , btw) . But when people defended JP using the same excuses you make for Trent you blasted them. You even talk crap about JP even when he wasn't a subject of the thread even when he was already gone.

That is why I think that you are a Trent fan.

Anyways, spare everyone your pro JP agenda. The topic is that Jim kelly thinks there is more leadership needed. .

you were the first one to bring up JP in this thread.

[trapezeus]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

i did only because it was still fresh from a different thread and being implied that i'm defending trent but didn't defend jp.

so if we are agreeing on the solution to fixing the team, whats the issue? That i thought JP wouldn't succeed in any situation with any level of talent or OL or coaching vs thinking trent has been servicable with better lines protecting him? we've already hashed that out. you think i'm wrong. So that's that.

I think Trent's probably not the long term answer, but he is a stop gap with a better line. plus if he plays poorly next year but the line is coming together, hello top pick for a top qb. that's a good deal, i think.

[justasportsfan]

Re: To Jim Kelly's point:

i did only because it was still fresh from a different thread and being implied that i'm defending trent but didn't defend jp.

so if we are agreeing on the solution to fixing the team, whats the issue? That i thought JP wouldn't succeed in any situation with any level of talent or OL or coaching vs thinking trent has been servicable with better lines protecting him? we've already hashed that out. you think i'm wrong. So that's that.

I think Trent's probably not the long term answer, but he is a stop gap with a better line. plus if he plays poorly next year but the line is coming together, hello top pick for a top qb. that's a good deal, i think.

Let's just say the way you go around as if the bigger problem is anyone but the qb even though you say but I question if you really mean it.

I think Trent can be a good qb with a HC that can get into his head and tell his nuts to drop.

This is why I wanted Josh McDaniels.