Ralph is stripping it down to the bare bones...

[Ebenezer]

you think this year is bad....wait until next year and they strip even more from the budget...Ralph is getting it ready to be sold...the new owner comes in with little costs to bare....and moves the team away...

[Joe Fo Sho]

Thanks for that, man... I appreciate it. Does it really make you feel good to point this out to everyone???

[SABURZFAN]

not so fast there, Eb. who's to say that there isn't a group of interest that keeps the team in Buffalo? i was looking at your point of view until that "move away" part. it makes sense that stripping this team down makes it easier for the next Owners to mold this team to their liking. maybe it's just me but i think i would do all i could to leave this world knowing i tried to do everything i could to win.

[Ebenezer]

not so fast there, Eb. who's to say that there isn't a group of interest that keeps the team in Buffalo? i was looking at your point of view until that "move away" part. it makes sense that stripping this team down makes it easier for the next Owners to mold this team to their liking. maybe it's just me but i think i would do all i could to leave this world knowing i tried to do everything i could to win.
$1Billion...who in Buffalo is going to pony up that kind of cash and then still keep them here? Think of the money in other markets...When RW is talking about the economy he isn't talking about how much you or I make he is talking about big businesses to buy lots of luxury suites...that is what this area cannot give to a new owner.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Is Ralph from Buffalo? Does it have to be someone from Buffalo? Why be so shortsighted and negative?

[Ebenezer]

Is Ralph from Buffalo? Does it have to be someone from Buffalo? Why be so shortsighted and negative?
throw out some names of people to buy the team...and consider the cities that could make that person more money than he can in Buffalo.

[paladin warrior]

Ralph is old..He need to retire and he need spend more time with his wife before too late. Come on Ralph!!! SAY IT " I"M Retire and Pls someone buying My Staduim pls" Don't such a wet pussy. COME ON RALPH !! SAY IT "RETIRE!!!!"

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

throw out some names of people to buy the team...and consider the cities that could make that person more money than he can in Buffalo.

How about Tom Galisano? He has said several times if the Bills we put up for sale he would be interested in purchasing the team. Throw in a few of Jim Kelly's people and it may happen.

[Yasgur's Farm]

throw out some names of people to buy the team...and consider the cities that could make that person more money than he can in Buffalo.Sometimes it comes down to more than "what city can make me more money"... Tom Galisano.

[Ebenezer]

How about Tom Galisano? He has said several times if the Bills we put up for sale he would be interested in purchasing the team. Throw in a few of Jim Kelly's people and it may happen.
Galisano has done such a great job with the Sabres, hasn't he? And why would he want to stay in New York...he hates this place. Wouldn't he move them and his money to Orlando?

[SABURZFAN]

$1Billion...who in Buffalo is going to pony up that kind of cash and then still keep them here? Think of the money in other markets...When RW is talking about the economy he isn't talking about how much you or I make he is talking about big businesses to buy lots of luxury suites...that is what this area cannot give to a new owner.


i'm not ready to believe that the team is moving. call me a homer but i don't think the team goes anywhere.

[Ebenezer]

Sometimes it comes down to "what city can make me more money"... Tom Galisano.
Exactly....Orlando or Buffalo? San Antonio or Buffalo? Los Angeles or Buffalo? Toronto or Buffalo? shall I go on?

[Ebenezer]

i'm not ready to believe that the team is moving. call me a homer but i don't think the team goes anywhere.
Dream on....maybe you'll date that supermodel, too!

[SABURZFAN]

Ralph is old..He need to retire and he need spend more time with his wife before too late. Come on Ralph!!! SAY IT " I"M Retire and Pls someone buying My Staduim pls" Don't such a wet pussy. COME ON RALPH !! SAY IT "RETIRE!!!!"



:roflmao:

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

Galisano has done such a great job with the Sabres, hasn't he?

Sorry I don't follow hockey, just football. If he purchased the team it would not leave Buffalo, I thought we were talking about what owner would keep the team here? Maybe it's a misunderstanding

[SABURZFAN]

Dream on....maybe you'll date that supermodel, too!


if that supermodel doesn't drink beer or Jack Daniels, she doesn't hang with SABURZFAN. :chug:

[X-Era]

you think this year is bad....wait until next year and they strip even more from the budget...Ralph is getting it ready to be sold...the new owner comes in with little costs to bare....and moves the team away...

:shakeno:

[JD]

Ralph is old..He need to retire and he need spend more time with his wife before too late. Come on Ralph!!! SAY IT " I"M Retire and Pls someone buying My Staduim pls" Don't such a wet pussy. COME ON RALPH !! SAY IT "RETIRE!!!!"
:rofl:

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

Galisano has done such a great job with the Sabres, hasn't he? And why would he want to stay in New York...he hates this place. Wouldn't he move them and his money to Orlando?

Orlando? Three NFL Florida teams, come on are you serious? The Jaguars will move before the Bills. Why hasn't he moved the Sabres if he hates New York so much?

[Dr. Pepper]

throw out some names of people to buy the team...and consider the cities that could make that person more money than he can in Buffalo.

Jeremy Jacobs?

[Ground Chuck]

Do you think that Ralph has lost interest since his daughter passed?

[Ebenezer]

Jeremy Jacobs?
you do realize that he's almost as old as RW...

[DMBcrew36]

you think this year is bad....wait until next year and they strip even more from the budget...Ralph is getting it ready to be sold...the new owner comes in with little costs to bare....and moves the team away...

Lets be realistic here. If Ralph Wilson was keeping the budget to a minimum this year, which he may be, it is likely because he is getting ready for an uncapped season, next season. If there is no cap next season, Ralph may be forced to spend some cash. Saving cash this year might make it easier next year.

[SABURZFAN]

Orlando? Three NFL Florida teams, come on are you serious? The Jaguars will move before the Bills. Why hasn't he moved the Sabres if he hates New York so much?


the relocation fee is a *****.

[Ebenezer]

Orlando? Three NFL Florida teams, come on are you serious? The Jaguars will move before the Bills. Why hasn't he moved the Sabres if he hates New York so much?

Yea, four teams in Florida....have you seen how much money is down there?

Why hasn't TG moved the Sabres? Where can he go and make more money? Different scale...talk about comparing apples to oranges.

[Ebenezer]

Do you think that Ralph has lost interest since his daughter passed?
I think RW lost interest in 1999...maybe before.

[Dr. Pepper]

you do realize that he's almost as old as RW...

im just throwin names out there. dont want to see my team leave.

[Ebenezer]

Lets be realistic here. If Ralph Wilson was keeping the budget to a minimum this year, which he may be, it is likely because he is getting ready for an uncapped season, next season. If there is no cap next season, Ralph may be forced to spend some cash. Saving cash this year might make it easier next year.
or he could spend LESS and pocket more money. Without a salary cap there is no minimum amout RW has to spend.

[SABURZFAN]

Do you think that Ralph has lost interest since his daughter passed?


i never thought of that. that's a great question. i guess the only people who would know would be people close to him.

[Ebenezer]

the relocation fee is a *****.
has nothing to do with it...the only other two cities to go to would be Quebec and Winnipeg...if TG hates NY's taxes he'll chock on Canada's.

[DMBcrew36]

or he could spend LESS and pocket more money. Without a salary cap there is no minimum amout RW has to spend.

Though Ralph has most certainly mismanaged this team as an owner, you're taking it a little too far. Sure, Ralph doesn't go out and spend like a Snyder or a Jerry Jones, but he isn't some conniving scrouge with a hidden agenda to screw Buffalo and its fans. Such thoughts are insane.

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

Yea, four teams in Florida....have you seen how much money is down there?

Why hasn't TG moved the Sabres? Where can he go and make more money? Different scale...talk about comparing apples to oranges.

We are all entitled to our opinions. Sorry you are having a bad day. Hope it gets better for you.

[Bulldog]

Yea, four teams in Florida....have you seen how much money is down there?

Why hasn't TG moved the Sabres? Where can he go and make more money? Different scale...talk about comparing apples to oranges.

Look, I'm not saying Buffalo won't move, but using Florida a possible destination is absurd. Financially speaking, Florida is currently a disaster. They were one of the hardest hit by the housing bubble. For the first time in forever, the population actually decreased. Municipalities are currently raising taxes to make ends meet. I would think LA would be option number one for any owner looking to relocate a franchise. I think Florida's more likely to lose an NFL franchise than they are to add another one. The Jags attendance numbers are horrible.

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

Lets be realistic here. If Ralph Wilson was keeping the budget to a minimum this year, which he may be, it is likely because he is getting ready for an uncapped season, next season. If there is no cap next season, Ralph may be forced to spend some cash. Saving cash this year might make it easier next year.

I agree with you.

[Ebenezer]

Though Ralph has most certainly mismanaged this team as an owner, you're taking it a little too far. Sure, Ralph doesn't go out and spend like a Snyder or a Jerry Jones, but he isn't some conniving scrouge with a hidden agenda to screw Buffalo and its fans. Such thoughts are insane.
really? research the history of the team...Larry Felser who has covered this team since day 1 did a great job in an editorial last year in the Buffalo News. Ralph makes business decisions. I've said it a hundred times...when Terry Bledsoe took ill RW simply did what RW does...he elevated from within...that guy just happened to be Bill Polian. He oops upon the glory days of the franchise. If Bledsoe stays healthy the Bills never go to a SB..hell, they may have left town already.

[Ebenezer]

Look, I'm not saying Buffalo won't move, but using Florida a possible destination is absurd. Financially speaking, Florida is currently a disaster. They were one of the hardest hit by the housing bubble. For the first time in forever, the population actually decreased. Municipalities are currently raising taxes to make ends meet. I would think LA would be option number one for any owner looking to relocate a franchise. I think Florida's more likely to lose an NFL franchise than they are to add another one. The Jags attendance numbers are horrible.
Fine, kick Orlando out of the equation...can you not name 10 other US cities where a new owner can make more money faster than he could in Buffalo? The ability to name only one could doom the Bills staying.

[Ebenezer]

We are all entitled to our opinions. Sorry you are having a bad day. Hope it gets better for you.
Not having a bad day...just saying the same things I have been saying for a long time.

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

Not having a bad day...just saying the same things I have been saying for a long time.

A long time and the Bills are still here. I'm just trying to say there are more options then the Bills just moving out of Buffalo.

[Hemlepp53]

Galisano has done such a great job with the Sabres, hasn't he? And why would he want to stay in New York...he hates this place. Wouldn't he move them and his money to Orlando?

EB.. I wish that would happen if relocation was in the future. I live in South Florida and would hit every game... but Florida has the Jags, Bucs, and Fish.... I see Jags moving to Orlando first... But GOD it would be great...

[DMBcrew36]

really? research the history of the team...Larry Felser who has covered this team since day 1 did a great job in an editorial last year in the Buffalo News. Ralph makes business decisions. I've said it a hundred times...when Terry Bledsoe took ill RW simply did what RW does...he elevated from within...that guy just happened to be Bill Polian. He oops upon the glory days of the franchise. If Bledsoe stays healthy the Bills never go to a SB..hell, they may have left town already.

I don't see what this has to do with you saying 'maybe the Bills will continue to squeeze and squeeze the player payroll until the team is sold off.' We're talking about spending on players. The way the Bills are spending this year is how they spent last year, and the year prior to that. I won't compare it to the Donahoe era, because Donahoe was the one calling the shots to a large degree. But anyways, Ralph has not done anything yet to show me he has some hidden agenda to screw us all with this team. He isn't some evil, evil man, and this isn't the movie 'Major League.'

[Bulldog]

Fine, kick Orlando out of the equation...can you not name 10 other US cities where a new owner can make more money faster than he could in Buffalo? The ability to name only one could doom the Bills staying.

I can. But I think you also have to look at how many cities would be willing to step forward financially to support a stadium project. Between the purchase price of the team and the cost of the stadium, that's a big nut to crack in the current financial climate. Unless the potential owner/s has more money than god, they're going to need assistance. And most people don't take kindly to spending public money building sports stadiums for ultra wealthy owners. So there may not be as many suiters as you think. But you are correct, all it takes is one. So who knows.

[Ebenezer]

The way the Bills are spending this year is how they spent last year, and the year prior to that.

Of course, they have to spend a minimum percentage of the salary cap just like every other team. In an uncapped year RW could strip down the budget even more.


I won't compare it to the Donahoe era, because Donahoe was the one calling the shots to a large degree.

That's not true. Jeff Littman and the money guys in Detroit have always had a huge say.


But anyways, Ralph has not done anything yet to show me he has some hidden agenda to screw us all with this team. He isn't some evil, evil man, and this isn't the movie 'Major League.'

Really?? Gregg Williams and his staff, Mike Mularkey and his staff, Dick Jauron and his staff. Bare bottom budget. Guaranteed losers. Now start stripping down the payroll and pray for an uncapped year. RW could have a $45 million budget next year - think of the money rolling in then!!

[trapezeus]

the buffalo ownership group still gets the stadium sweetheart deal. luxury box suite sales are not a guaranteed thing these days. we put out 10 years of **** football and we showed up. if you watch the redzone you see stadiums with empty seats at every game...but you haven't seen it in buffalo yet. and those are regular folk buying tickets.


i wouldn't be surprised if they move, but i think there is a case to keep them. i also think NYS should tax the living **** out of the new ownership should they leave. give them a leaving tax, an abandoning the stadium tax....whatever crap they come up, let them have it.

[Ebenezer]

Between the purchase price of the team and the cost of the stadium, that's a big nut to crack in the current financial climate. Unless the potential owner/s has more money than god, they're going to need assistance.

When do cities buy into teams? The NFL doesn't allow it.



And most people don't take kindly to spending public money building sports stadiums for ultra wealthy owners. So there may not be as many suiters as you think. But you are correct, all it takes is one. So who knows.

Show me the last major city that turned down a new sports stadium.



So there may not be as many suiters as you think. But you are correct, all it takes is one. So who knows.

There will be tens of suitors.

[DMBcrew36]

Of course, they have to spend a minimum percentage of the salary cap just like every other team. In an uncapped year RW could strip down the budget even more.



That's not true. Jeff Littman and the money guys in Detroit have always had a huge say.



Really?? Gregg Williams and his staff, Mike Mularkey and his staff, Dick Jauron and his staff. Bare bottom budget. Guaranteed losers. Now start stripping down the payroll and pray for an uncapped year. RW could have a $45 million budget next year - think of the money rolling in then!!
We could go back and forth, but I'll just leave it like this - you can believe whatever you want. I just personally do not think there is some conspiracy concocted by Ralph Wilson playing out.

[Canadian'eh!]

EB is probably right.

Ralph is 91. He had a bought of pneumonia last yearI seem to recall. I think He even made some comment today about "the media doesn't have all that much longer to ask him" certain things.

So he's gonna keep everything to bare bones until he croaks... then it's a very appealing, no lease sale. Very few buyouts.... max value for the team.

It's all about LA too. They'll be ready for a team in 3-4 years... Hence the fast track for a stadium.

I went through this with the Expos. Someone will buy the team, bide their time until LA is ready and then move them.

They'll get HUGE money from LA. Including a very very comfy lease. Huge corporate money, and go from being one of the cheapest franchises to #1 or 2 most valuable overnight.

[Ebenezer]

the buffalo ownership group still gets the stadium sweetheart deal. luxury box suite sales are not a guaranteed thing these days. we put out 10 years of **** football and we showed up. if you watch the redzone you see stadiums with empty seats at every game...but you haven't seen it in buffalo yet. and those are regular folk buying tickets.

"regular folk" don't matter one iota in this game any more. The TV contract pays almost all of the salaries of the players. The suites and boxes are where the future money is at. The fannies in the seats are gravy.



i wouldn't be surprised if they move, but i think there is a case to keep them. i also think NYS should tax the living **** out of the new ownership should they leave. give them a leaving tax, an abandoning the stadium tax....whatever crap they come up, let them have it.

what is the case to keep them? loyalty? tradition?

and how are they going to enforce that kind of tax?

[Ebenezer]

We could go back and forth, but I'll just leave it like this - you can believe whatever you want. I just personally do not think there is some conspiracy concocted by Ralph Wilson playing out.

I wouldn't go as far as conspiracy but RW is playing this all the way to the grave. Go back and look up why he picked Buffalo or Miami in 1959.

[HHURRICANE]

Eb is 100% right. The team is getting ready to be sold and if you look at it there is nothing to keep them in Buffalo.

[DMBcrew36]

I wouldn't go as far as conspiracy but RW is playing this all the way to the grave. Go back and look up why he picked Buffalo or Miami in 1959.

I'm aware of Bills history, but that doesn't mean crap for the Bills in 2009, as far as I'm concerned.

[Ebenezer]

EB is probably right.

Ralph is 91. He had a bought of pneumonia last yearI seem to recall. I think He even made some comment today about "the media doesn't have all that much longer to ask him" certain things.

So he's gonna keep everything to bare bones until he croaks... then it's a very appealing, no lease sale. Very few buyouts.... max value for the team.

It's all about LA too. They'll be ready for a team in 3-4 years... Hence the fast track for a stadium.

I went through this with the Expos. Someone will buy the team, bide their time until LA is ready and then move them.

They'll get HUGE money from LA. Including a very very comfy lease. Huge corporate money, and go from being one of the cheapest franchises to #1 or 2 most valuable overnight.
and think about it...they'll sell for $1B. How much are they worth in LA?? $1.25B? $1.5B? Remind me how Buffalo competes.

[Ebenezer]

I'm aware of Bills history, but that doesn't mean crap for the Bills in 2009, as far as I'm concerned.
you said yourself you're 23...you tell me why RW picked Buffalo over Miami. The past has everything to do with the future when you talk about RW.

[Bulldog]

When do cities buy into teams? The NFL doesn't allow it.




Show me the last major city that turned down a new sports stadium.




There will be tens of suitors.

EB, I wasn't talking about a city buying the team. I was talking about giving the professional team financial assistance torwards the cost of the stadium. So we're going to have to agree to disagree, because I dont think there would be as many suiters as you think. Again, all is takes is one. So its very possible that they move upon Wilsons passing.

[trapezeus]

you know what...they should do ralph one last favor and let the highest bidder take this team at $1BN. take them to LA, change the name. Then the following year, give buffalo a new team, ala cleveland, at a discounted price with the kelly ownership group.

This way the NFL owners get what they want and show a sale at an inflated price and placate the fans with a cheaper entity that doesn't bring all the other teams prices down.

New Bills get the same stadium deal all the perks NYS has thrown away at the ralph...and they remain debt free.

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

[/quote]Really?? Gregg Williams and his staff, Mike Mularkey and his staff, Dick Jauron and his staff. Bare bottom budget. Guaranteed losers. Now start stripping down the payroll and pray for an uncapped year. RW could have a $45 million budget next year - think of the money rolling in then!![/quote]

You really think he will sell tickets with that kind of philosophy? So what money will be rolling in? And he would have never given Jauron 3 million a year if he was really trying to low cost? No, he would have brought in a cheap HC.

Besides don't you think that NYS will do everything they can to keep the new owner in Buffalo? Think of the job loss and tax revenue they would lose.

[DMBcrew36]

you said yourself you're 23...you tell me why RW picked Buffalo over Miami. The past has everything to do with the future when you talk about RW.

He wanted the team in Miami but they wouldn't let him, so he chose Buffalo.

[Canadian'eh!]

Again.. an NFL team in LA is a GUARANTEED money maker. There is too much money there. Every corporate box will be sold. Money pouring in.

The fans won't show up until the end of the 1st Q, and will leave early to avoid traffic... but the seats will be sold, and ownership very very wealthy.

Don't think the fans can keep the Bills here because they are excellent fans.

The Baltimore Colts had great fans.
The Original Cleveland Browns had great fans.
The Winnipeg Jets
The Seattle Supersonics has great fans

.Money talks. Buffalo doesn't have enough of it.

[PECKERWOOD]

It's so hard to build up a new fan base from scratch, things really have to go your way for it to happen. It seems hit or miss in terms of teams that have succeeded and failed after being moved. Is it really worth the gamble?

[Canadian'eh!]

you know what...they should do ralph one last favor and let the highest bidder take this team at $1BN. take them to LA, change the name. Then the following year, give buffalo a new team, ala cleveland, at a discounted price with the kelly ownership group.

This way the NFL owners get what they want and show a sale at an inflated price and placate the fans with a cheaper entity that doesn't bring all the other teams prices down.

New Bills get the same stadium deal all the perks NYS has thrown away at the ralph...and they remain debt free.

There will NOT be a Buffalo expansion team.

Cleveland only got that because they had a descent market. Buffalo is a negative when it comes to revenue sharing. They won't put a team back here to lose the league money.

IF the Bills go... Buffalo and the NFL are no more.

That I can promise you.

[Canadian'eh!]

It's so hard to build up a new fan base from scratch, things really have to go your way for it to happen. It seems hit or miss in terms of teams that have succeeded and failed after being moved. Is it really worth the gamble?

In LA? Hell yes... the team nearly doubles in value very quickly... LA loves toys.

[DMBcrew36]

There will NOT be a Buffalo expansion team.

Cleveland only got that because they had a descent market. Buffalo is a negative when it comes to revenue sharing. They won't put a team back here to lose the league money.

IF the Bills go... Buffalo and the NFL are no more.

That I can promise you.

I think almost all of us can agree. The Jerry Jones and Snyders of the world, who are pretty much the big honchos of the league, do not want a city like Buffalo that would come anywhere close to needing revenue sharing. They want a big city that can facilitate a mega-stadium because luxury suites are where the real money is made. Buffalo doesn't have the large community of corporations required.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

throw out some names of people to buy the team...and consider the cities that could make that person more money than he can in Buffalo.

Bob Rich Jr. owns the Bisons always wanted to own the Bills

Jeremy Jacobs (owner of the Boston Bruins owner of Delaware North is a global hospitality and food service business headquartered in Buffalo, N.Y) but would he sell the Bruins to buy the Bills

[DMBcrew36]

Bob Rich Jr. owns the Bisons always wanted to own the Bills

Jeremy Jacobs (owner of the Boston Bruins owner of Delaware North is a global hospitality and food service business headquartered in Buffalo, N.Y) but would he sell the Bruins to buy the Bills

While it was two years ago, and circumstances can change, I recall Jeremy Jacobs saying he had no interest.

[HHURRICANE]

Bob Rich Jr. owns the Bisons always wanted to own the Bills

Jeremy Jacobs (owner of the Boston Bruins owner of Delaware North is a global hospitality and food service business headquartered in Buffalo, N.Y) but would he sell the Bruins to buy the Bills

Bob Rich doesn't have enough money. Jacobs or Golisano maybe.

[BertSquirtgum]

don't worry everyone. jim kelly's buddy donald trump and his group of investors will buy the team which will then keep them here. i'm not worried. i love these stupid ass threads about the bills moving. why would the bills ****ing move? they make money every year. there is no reason for someone to move the bills. i understand all these idiots that don't live in buffalo hoping for them to move. so maybe they can one day go to a game but it's rubbish. they're not moving, shut the **** up about it.

[Canadian'eh!]

Bob Rich doesn't have enough money. Jacobs or Golisano maybe.

Rich is actually richer than Golisano AND Jacobs according to Forbes.

also... Jacobs is an absolute tightwad. He'd be worse than Ralph

[PECKERWOOD]

To make money, you need a fanbase.

[trapezeus]

i just think there is a viable entity in buffalo...the area hasnt really shrunk....

i think the nfl is knocking on the NBA's door if they think the average fan isn't needed. you cut out some cities like buffalo, you are cutting out the fans who eat breathe sleep this stuff.

there are a handful of teams in this league that would go face some serious financial troubles with their debt and lack of luxury sales. it's not a far fetched theory for that to happen. to not get 40,000 season ticket sales would be very difficult in buffalo. they got the stadium dirt cheap.

i think a deal can be worked out. but if they chose not to keep a team in buffalo, i am done with the nfl. i won't buy a single thing and i won't watch any games.

[BertSquirtgum]

To make money, you need a fanbase.
the majority of fans aren't on this site. there are plenty of people out there willing to throw their money at a ****ty team. i for one have been doing it for 7 years. there will always be a fan base in buffalo. the bills and sabres are all we have. i would rather have a ****ty team than no team at all. i didn't buy season tickets this year but i did buy individual tickets for half of the games.

[Meathead]

90% - likelihood the bills leave town almost immediately when ralph passes if they are still in orchard park

0% - likelihood the bills leave town when ralph passes if they put a new stadium near the canadian border

like it or not professional sports are absolutely moving toward the Yankees/Cowboys model of catering to big money fans & corporations. theres just zero chance buffalo can compete unless they partner with canada somehow

[Meathead]

and for the billion and oneth time, selling out the stadium is virtually meaningless compared to selling out the luxury boxes. if you can sell all your luxury boxes you can almost play in front of an otherwise empty stadium and still make money

so as great as it is to have fans fill up the stadium, if we dont figure a way to get companies to pay the big luxury box prices the team is gone

[Ground Chuck]

If Ralph wanted money, why wouldn't he sell a piece of the team now?

[BertSquirtgum]

no way this team is going anywhere. good try though meathead.

[trapezeus]

i just don't get why mrs wilson is so dead set on selling the team..is it that much of an inconvenience to pull in a cool 50mm a year with little to no effort? Does she really need the $1BN upfront?

we've been taught all these years that being rich is about having class, but selling out the region that made you rich is absolutely the most classless thing to do.

[Mr. Pink]

The grim reality is this...

Unless Ralphie has put some wheels in motion for a new ownership group that isn't publicly known now or doesn't start to set those wheels in motion very soon this team a year to three after he passes will no longer be in Buffalo.

His estate will put the franchise up for sale to the highest bidder.

The NFL won't balk at someone from LA or who wants to move the franchise to LA paying 1 billion dollars for the team. The NFL wants the second largest TV market in the country back.

And none of the owners would vote against the franchise moving either.

[Griff]

Eb you should change your avatar to this...

http://www.iconolith.com/i/beaker.jpg

[PECKERWOOD]

The Jerry Jones' & the Snyders of the NFL, they can take their greed, they can take the NFL when it's empty. Not everybody has money, most of us don't. Revenue sharing for the win, cheers to the common man.

[Michael82]

Wow, Eb. You have now become more annoying than both Op and HHURRICANE with all your negativity and desire to pound the moving talk into our heads. Have you ever thought that maybe there is a plan in place? Or how about this one...

There are a ton of people who are former Western NYers and still bleed Buffalo Bills red, white, and blue. Ever stop to think that maybe someone who used to live here and is some kind of rich business man and might be interested in buying the team? I look at it like the Vikings...Their new owner was not a Minnesota guy...but he bought the team to own an NFL team and chose to keep it in Minnesota due to their rabid fan base and all that. MInneapolis is a big city...but they arent known for having a ton of big corporations...he could have moved them, but didnt.

[Typ0]

do you think there is a plan in place? Wishful thinking.

[Canadian'eh!]

I'm sorry. But a lot of you seem to be in denial.

I'd love to be as optomistic as you about the way things work, but i just can't.

The bottom line is that Bills are one of the franchises that bring in the least money to the NFL. ANd htere ar many markets that would be PRIME for making a ton more (LA for sure. Toronto. San Antonio. Las Vegas. Orlando)

The NFL WILL allow Buffalo and probably eventually Jacksonville to move into 2 of these markets.

There has been NO serious talks about a new stadium in Buffalo. The city CANNOT afford to subsidize anything either.

So while I pray for a miracle from Jim Kelly and his rich friends. I'm not about to hold my breath.

I'm thinking we're gonna see about 3-4 more years of cheap, bad football. then have the team ripped away.

Welcome to the NFL. Where money talks and true fans don't mean ****.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

If he's stripping it down why did he give Stroud, Jackson and McGee all extensions?

[trapezeus]

he has to in order to meet the minimum.

he wants to win, but he wants to do it cost effectively.

[Ebenezer]

90% - likelihood the bills leave town almost immediately when ralph passes if they are still in orchard park

0% - likelihood the bills leave town when ralph passes if they put a new stadium near the canadian border

like it or not professional sports are absolutely moving toward the Yankees/Cowboys model of catering to big money fans & corporations. theres just zero chance buffalo can compete unless they partner with canada somehow

see the movie Rollerball - 1974

[Ebenezer]

i just don't get why mrs wilson is so dead set on selling the team..is it that much of an inconvenience to pull in a cool 50mm a year with little to no effort? Does she really need the $1BN upfront?

inheritance tax.

[Ebenezer]

he has to in order to meet the minimum.

he wants to win, but he wants to do it cost effectively.
I'm not even sure he wants to win....he wants to win financially - that is for sure.

[Jan Reimers]

inheritance tax.
If the team is left directly to Mrs. Wilson, there is no death tax.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Can Ralph just die already and get this over with?

Having totally free sundays, and saving tons of money would be awesome.

[Ebenezer]

If the team is left directly to Mrs. Wilson, there is no death tax.
thought that was only in 2009.

[ddaryl]

I hate doom and gloom scenarios... but I can't argue with what Ebeneezer is saying...

To me Ralph is obvioulsy not interested in fielding a championship team if it costs money to do so... Ralph also has said he plans ot sell to the highest bidder, and making sure his family is well taken care of when he passes...

but to use us fans in the process is unforgivebable in my book...

I do hope the Bills stay but I'm not very confident... the numbers just do not add up when you consider what Buffalo has to offer compared to other cities in this nation or Canada even.... No business person can justify being paid back 1 billion by keepin gthe team in Buffalo...

Move it to a major bustling metropolis with lots of wealthy businesses and now you can justify the billion $$$$ pricetag.

[BidsJr]

Wow, Eb. You have now become more annoying than both Op and HHURRICANE with all your negativity and desire to pound the moving talk into our heads. Have you ever thought that maybe there is a plan in place? Or how about this one...

There are a ton of people who are former Western NYers and still bleed Buffalo Bills red, white, and blue. Ever stop to think that maybe someone who used to live here and is some kind of rich business man and might be interested in buying the team? I look at it like the Vikings...Their new owner was not a Minnesota guy...but he bought the team to own an NFL team and chose to keep it in Minnesota due to their rabid fan base and all that. MInneapolis is a big city...but they arent known for having a ton of big corporations...he could have moved them, but didnt.



Minneapolis doesn't have a ton of big corporations? This is one of the more ignorant posts that I have seen.

Corporate headquarters off the top of my head......


General Mills
Pillsbury (now absorbed into General Mills)
Best Buy
Target
True Value
United Health Group
Boston Scientific
Select Comfort
US Bank

The list continues, but this town is oozing with "old" and "new" money from corporate executives living here over the last 100 years.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah Minneapolis is a pretty big city actually.

[Jan Reimers]

Can Ralph just die already and get this over with?

Having totally free sundays, and saving tons of money would be awesome.
If he dies in 2010, there is no death tax. This is just a one year exemption.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If he dies in 2010, there is no death tax. This is just a one year exemption.
So is that good for them staying in buffalo?

I want him to die on the optimum day for the Bills staying.

[Ebenezer]

If he dies in 2010, there is no death tax. This is just a one year exemption.
I am corrected...thought that was 2009....but again, do you think we will get saved by a loophole? What if RW doesn't die in 2010....then what?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Well lets hope he holds out for 3 more months then dies..

[Ebenezer]

Minneapolis doesn't have a ton of big corporations? This is one of the more ignorant posts that I have seen.

Corporate headquarters off the top of my head......


General Mills
Pillsbury (now absorbed into General Mills)
Best Buy
Target
True Value
United Health Group
Boston Scientific
Select Comfort
US Bank

The list continues, but this town is oozing with "old" and "new" money from corporate executives living here over the last 100 years.
what about 3M?

[BidsJr]

Yeah Minneapolis is a pretty big city actually.



As far as population they are like 13th in the US, but the density of Fortune 500 companies is much higher.

They rank tied for 7th. So the money to population ratio is even better. Then when you add in that at least General Mills and Pillsbury have been pumping 1000's of six or seven figure salaries into the economy for the past 100 years there is tons of money waiting to be spent.

Oh, and it is a fiscally RED state to boot.

[BidsJr]

what about 3M?

Yep forgot about them. (We just got up here 2 months ago, so still learning the greatness that is Minneapolis/St. Paul)

[THATHURMANATOR]

Ok enough with Minneapolis ball licking, back to the subject at hand. When is the best time for Ralph to die?

[Ebenezer]

Yep forgot about them. (We just got up here 2 months ago, so still learning the greatness that is Minneapolis/St. Paul)
take the cold weather out of the equation and Minnesota is a boom state.

[Ebenezer]

Ok enough with Minneapolis ball licking, back to the subject at hand. When is the best time for Ralph to die?
there is never a good time for a person to die.

[THATHURMANATOR]

there is never a good time for a person to die.
Not in this case.

[trapezeus]

is the inheritance tax a state or federal level tax?

if its a state tax, wouldn't NYS have a vested interest to work with Mrs Wilson so that they don't lose the future inflows?

If it's just a federal thing, then we are screwed.

[Ebenezer]

is the inheritance tax a state or federal level tax?

if its a state tax, wouldn't NYS have a vested interest to work with Mrs Wilson so that they don't lose the future inflows?

If it's just a federal thing, then we are screwed.
Federal. Last time I looked it is 55% (might have been decreased under Bush). It is how the Robbie's lost the Dolphins.

[BidsJr]

Ok enough with Minneapolis ball licking, back to the subject at hand. When is the best time for Ralph to die?


THe point is that a lowly city like Minneapolis has 1000x to offer the NFL more than Buffalo.

Bills fans need to pray that Roger Goodell's ties to Buffalo strong-arm the league into a Green Bay scenario. Or Ralph has already made plans with Jim or Golisano to keep the team here.

If either of those 2 things don't happen, football is gone from Buffalo for good.

Sure maybe Toronto gets an expansion team, but what Buffalo Bills fan is going to be a die hard fan of the Toronto Red Leafs?

[Jan Reimers]

I am corrected...thought that was 2009....but again, do you think we will get saved by a loophole? What if RW doesn't die in 2010....then what?
There is a complete exemption from the death tax in 2010, but I think spouses are always exempt. The best thing for Ralph, from a tax standpoint, would be to leave the team to Mary, regardless of when he passes.

[SABURZFAN]

:rofl:

a lot of people on here gave me crap about talking bad about The Old Fart. wishing him dead would have had people wanting me banned.

[THATHURMANATOR]

**** Wilson.

[Jan Reimers]

It's all but assured that the Bills will be in Buffalo until Ralph passes. I hope he lives until he's 123.

[THATHURMANATOR]

It's all but assured that the Bills will be in Buffalo until Ralph passes. I hope he lives until he's 123.
I can't handle the garbage we have on the field for that long, or the hanging of moving the team over our heads. Get it over with already.

[Ebenezer]

There is a complete exemption from the death tax in 2010, but I think spouses are always exempt. The best thing for Ralph, from a tax standpoint, would be to leave the team to Mary, regardless of when he passes.
the only thing I found is that the transfer to a spouse or a charity is usually exempt...but again, is this not how the Robbie's lost the Dolphins?

[MassEffect218435]

I agree with Eb, I think they are gone. Isn't the contract with OP up in 2012?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Just great.

[SABURZFAN]

It's all but assured that the Bills will be in Buffalo until Ralph passes. I hope he lives until he's 123.


sure... what's ANOTHER 30 years of football misery. :hang:

[Jan Reimers]

sure... what's ANOTHER 30 years of football misery. :hang:
I've already put in 50, so I guess I can suffer through a few more. At my age - when you don't buy green bananas - I'm not looking for anywhere near 30 more.

[SABURZFAN]

at 123, he's going to look like Tales from the Crypts.

[Ebenezer]

at 123, he's going to look like Tales from the Crypts.
it's getting close now.

[Jan Reimers]

at 123, he's going to look like Tales from the Crypts.
He already looks like one of those plastic cadavers they recently had on display at the Science Museum in Buffalo. Dick does too, come to think of it.

[don137]

If the team is left directly to Mrs. Wilson, there is no death tax.
I know inheritance taxes are different than estate taxes. Only some states have inheritance laws wich are owed by the recipient. Estate taxes are paid by the estate. Not sure if Ralph is considered a reresident of Michigan or Florida. Michigan has an inheritiance tax and Florida does not. Usually their are excemptions for those closest like children or spouses however if this is considered a family business the laws are different in that their is an exclusion for the value of the first 1.3MM. I doubt the Bills are considered a family business though.

[Jan Reimers]

I know inheritance taxes are different than estate taxes. Only some states have inheritance laws wich are owed by the recipient. Estate taxes are paid by the estate. Not sure if Ralph is considered a reresident of Michigan or Florida. Michigan has an inheritiance tax and Florida does not. Usually their are excemptions for those closest like children or spouses however if this is considered a family business the laws are different in that their is an exclusion for the value of the first 1.3MM. I doubt the Bills are considered a family business though.
I was thinking more of the federal tax, from which the spouse is generally exempt. I don't think the state rates are anywhere near as high.

[Canadian'eh!]

Well the Tax doens't matter... Ralph has openly said he is selling it on his death to the highest bidder.

End of story.

[Ebenezer]

Well the Tax doens't matter... Ralph has openly said he is selling it on his death to the highest bidder.

End of story.
and that his family doesn't want it.

[Michael82]

Minneapolis doesn't have a ton of big corporations? This is one of the more ignorant posts that I have seen.

Corporate headquarters off the top of my head......


General Mills
Pillsbury (now absorbed into General Mills)
Best Buy
Target
True Value
United Health Group
Boston Scientific
Select Comfort
US Bank

The list continues, but this town is oozing with "old" and "new" money from corporate executives living here over the last 100 years.

why does everyone always call the Vikings a small market team then? :scratch:

[Ebenezer]

why does everyone always call the Vikings a small market team then? :scratch:
past ownerships refusal to spend money...

and they say it with the Twins usually in reference to the population number...never heard it associated with the Vikes.

[Michael82]

past ownerships refusal to spend money...

and they say it with the Twins usually in reference to the population number...never heard it associated with the Vikes.

I've heard it with the Vikings several times.

[THATHURMANATOR]

ENOUGH WITH MINNESOTA.

[Canadian'eh!]

The Bottom Line.

We know Ralph is arranging for the team to be sold to the highest bidder after he dies.

The team has far more value if moved to a market like LA, Toronto or San Antonio.

The NFL is HIGHLY unlikely to oppose a move to those bigger TV markets, or do anything to stop the team from getting the higest price possible, in order in greatly increase it's own revenues.

A local buyer interested in saving the team and keeping it in Buffalo is a very long shot, when you consider hwo few options there are, and that there will be NO subsidzed stadium in a city with little corporate entities and no money from municpal taxes that could be justifed on a stadium.

So, from a business perspective, everything points to a buyer looking to relocate to a bigger market.

I just can't see some sentimental billionaire taking over just to save the team. They didn't get to be Billionaires like that after all.

[don137]

I was thinking more of the federal tax, from which the spouse is generally exempt. I don't think the state rates are anywhere near as high.
Yea, I think what you are thinking of the inheritance tax which you are correct that the spouse and usually direct children are usually except unless they are all involved in a family business. Usually the spouse is part of the estate which the estate tax does not happen until both paties in the estate pass away

[SABURZFAN]

ENOUGH WITH MINNESOTA.


it's a nice place. the taxes are lower too.

[BertSquirtgum]

i don't know who looks more dead ralph or dick? it's a very damn close tie.

[BertSquirtgum]

if you think canada is going to ever have a football team you are smoking drugs. no way there will ever be an american football team in canada. no way, no how. whether it's the bills or an expansion team. not going to happen.

[Ebenezer]

if you think canada is going to ever have a football team you are smoking drugs. no way there will ever be an american football team in canada. no way, no how. whether it's the bills or an expansion team. not going to happen.
ever seen the amount of money in toronto? the NFL would love to tap that if done properly.

[BertSquirtgum]

never going to happen, reason being. sure they will give them a couple of games but that's it. canada already has a league. if you did a survey of the average canadian in, toronto i would be willing to bet that it would turn up with the majority not wanting an nfl team.

[Ebenezer]

never going to happen, reason being. sure they will give them a couple of games but that's it. canada already has a league. if you did a survey of the average canadian in, toronto i would be willing to bet that it would turn up with the majority not wanting an nfl team.
MLB has a team in Toronto...NBA has a team in Toronto. NHL has teams in the US. Why not the NFL?

[BertSquirtgum]

never going to happen, reason being. sure they will give them a couple of games but that's it. canada already has a league. if you did a survey of the average canadian in, toronto i would be willing to bet that it would turn up with the majority not wanting an nfl team.

see bold, it is just my opinion but i don't think most people want an nfl team. i remember the way those idiots cheered at the miami game. it seemed that they didn't know sh** about fu** all.

[Ebenezer]

see bold, it is just my opinion but i don't think most people want an nfl team. i remember the way those idiots cheered at the miami game. it seemed that they didn't know **** about **** all.
yeah...that would prevent the NFL from putting a team in Canada...if they wanted to the NFL could buy the CFL and move it to Cameroon.

[Typ0]

Got to disagree with this. In order for any mature product to continue to grow and not turn into a dog it has to find new markets. These markets for the NFL will be international markets and they very likely will start with canada and mexico. So what if canada already has a league locating a team in toronto won't harm it.


if you think canada is going to ever have a football team you are smoking drugs. no way there will ever be an american football team in canada. no way, no how. whether it's the bills or an expansion team. not going to happen.

[BertSquirtgum]

i understand what you're saying, my whole point was. toronto will not have an nfl team before a thriving american city that wants one.

[Ebenezer]

Got to disagree with this. In order for any mature product to continue to grow and not turn into a dog it has to find new markets. These markets for the NFL will be international markets and they very likely will start with canada and mexico. So what if canada already has a league locating a team in toronto won't harm it.
and as we know all these leagues are thinking big...as in internationally...it may take decades but there will be NFLUSA, NFLEurope and NFLAsia conferences with the winners of each playing for the Super Bowl. The first sport where we will see this is hockey. If the new KHL can take off I can envision a day when the NHL champ plays the KHL champ for some super trophy.

[BertSquirtgum]

Got to disagree with this. In order for any mature product to continue to grow and not turn into a dog it has to find new markets. These markets for the NFL will be international markets and they very likely will start with canada and mexico. So what if canada already has a league locating a team in toronto won't harm it.
i must disagree with this. it most certainly would harm the attendance of a canadian football game. the miami game was hard to fill last year. they had to give away tickets. two teams fighting for attendance? if i was canadian, who would i chose to support with my money? a canadian football team or some american team some rich s.o.b. is pushing on me? it's really hard to say, this is just what i think. who knows for sure. it could happen but i don't think it will.

[Typ0]

i understand what you're saying, my whole point was. toronto will not have an nfl team before a thriving american city that wants one.


If it's seen as a more valuable investment for the league they just might. And in our case it could be seen as just taking the team and moving it to a different part of the region it's already in. Other owners (they are the NFL) will definately consider the impact of a market exit when making a decision. Unlike when the Cleveland situation played out there are no intentions of league expansion right now.

[Ebenezer]

i understand what you're saying, my whole point was. toronto will not have an nfl team before a thriving american city that wants one.
really? show me an American city that does not have an NFL team that has the corporate environment of Toronto. There is a reason it is compared to NYC.

[THATHURMANATOR]

WHO CAREEEEEEEEEEES?

[DraftBoy]

Best case scenario I can see is that the Bills make a push for a new stadium close to the Canadian border to tap into the Toronto market.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Best case scenario I can see is that the Bills make a push for a new stadium close to the Canadian border to tap into the Toronto market.
There you go. Lets do this.

[Ebenezer]

Best case scenario I can see is that the Bills make a push for a new stadium close to the Canadian border to tap into the Toronto market.
that would mean downtown Buffalo...great in concept but in this area I can see that taking another 20 years...

[Historian]

Don't you miss the Knoxes?

[Ebenezer]

There you go. Lets do this.
I'm for it...let's first get rid of all the politicians and special interest groups that would get in the way.

[DraftBoy]

that would mean downtown Buffalo...great in concept but in this area I can see that taking another 20 years...

Doesnt matter once a plan is voted on the team would be locked in and it would cost 100s of millions to get out of a deal like that.

[Ebenezer]

Don't you miss the Knoxes?
every time I see the slug.

[Ebenezer]

Doesnt matter once a plan is voted on the team would be locked in and it would cost 100s of millions to get out of a deal like that.
you think RW is going to live another 20 years?

[Typ0]

Best case scenario is New York State decides the team is too critical to WNY's economy and takes action to keep it. Unfortuanately, the state is broke and Ralph won't enter into any agreements that would limit the teams value on the open market. So the situation is very grave for the Bills in WNY IMO. Not impossible we will still have a team here in a decade but also not very likely.

[Typ0]

Doesnt matter once a plan is voted on the team would be locked in and it would cost 100s of millions to get out of a deal like that.


That's why RW won't make that deal.

[Ebenezer]

Best case scenario is New York State decides the team is too critical to WNY's economy and takes action to keep it. Unfortuanately, the state is broke and Ralph won't enter into any agreements that would limit the teams value on the open market. So the situation is very grave for the Bills in WNY IMO. Not impossible we will still have a team here in a decade but also not very likely.
the only way I see them staying is a new buyer also buys up lots of property on the waterfront to build a stadium...then they invest lots of bucks in the hope of generating money from other things.

[DraftBoy]

you think RW is going to live another 20 years?


Who the hell needs RW to live 20 years, a contract can be drafted, voted on, and signed within a years time frame.

[DraftBoy]

That's why RW won't make that deal.


That doesnt make any sense, it won't be his money at risk. He'll be dead and the team will have a new owner.

Edit: Nevermind I see what you're saying now.

[Canadian'eh!]

Toronto is a very large city with a ton of money. Southern Ontario has 8+ mill, and the GTA has 5.5 mill.

So 50-80,000 per game is not hard to find.

Plus there is a TON of big corporate money. Comaprable with cities like Chicago or Miami easily, and just below LA and NY.

The Raptors do fine. I do think it would be hard for that team to attract free agents though. It seems the Raptors have had issues there.

BUt they def COULD be a profitable team. sadly.

The fans would suck though. Toronto is a Maple Leafs town and always will be. But i actually admire how hardcore the Raptors fans are, i must admit.


Anyway..... it's a def possibility. sadly.

A downtown stadium (and yes... it has to be a dome so it can host a Super Bowl) would end this though... but i don't think the local economy will ever make this possible.

[DraftBoy]

Toronto is a very large city with a ton of money. Southern Ontario has 8+ mill, and the GTA has 5.5 mill.

So 50-80,000 per game is not hard to find.

Plus there is a TON of big corporate money. Comaprable with cities like Chicago or Miami easily, and just below LA and NY.

The Raptors do fine. I do think it would be hard for that team to attract free agents though. It seems the Raptors have had issues there.

BUt they def COULD be a profitable team. sadly.

The fans would suck though. Toronto is a Maple Leafs town and always will be. But i actually admire how hardcore the Raptors fans are, i must admit.


Anyway..... it's a def possibility. sadly.

A downtown stadium (and yes... it has to be a dome so it can host a Super Bowl) would end this though... but i don't think the local economy will ever make this possible.

Agreed there would have to be a dome in place, preferably retractable. Can the local economy take it though? They'd have to give huge tax breaks and sign a sweetheart land deal.

[Canadian'eh!]

the only way I see them staying is a new buyer also buys up lots of property on the waterfront to build a stadium...then they invest lots of bucks in the hope of generating money from other things.

It's probably even more limited than this.... basically it has to be someone who is rich enough to buy the team, thinks they can make money, AND is willing to make LESS money in order to keep the team where it is, so therefore has some ties to the Bills and/or WNY.

That is a VERY short list.

[Canadian'eh!]

Agreed there would have to be a dome in place, preferably retractable. Can the local economy take it though? They'd have to give huge tax breaks and sign a sweetheart land deal.

In a word? No.

Let's face it. Pro sports teams EVERYWHERE are not getting sweet land deals and super leases the way they were 15 years ago. Tax payers (especially since the downturn) are no longer interested in subsidizing huge stadiums when schools, and roads are falling apart.

those deals like Phoenix were giving out just don't happen anymore.

There are far too many bigger needs than a 500mill+ dome.... especially with no corporate help and a lot of people already out fo work in the sad-sack WNY economy.

[billsburgh]

you think RW is going to live another 20 years?
he probably will just to torture us fans.

[Ebenezer]

Who the hell needs RW to live 20 years, a contract can be drafted, voted on, and signed within a years time frame.
you have any clue how slowly things move around here? think glacial speed...

[don137]

What is the reasons behind the Bills not selling as well for the games in Toronto? Was it the ticket price, the fact it is Buffalo and not their own team or general lack of interest?

[Ebenezer]

What is the reasons behind the Bills not selling as well for the games in Toronto? Was it the ticket price, the fact it is Buffalo and not their own team or general lack of interest?
ticket prices.

[paladin warrior]

at 123, he's going to look like Tales from the Crypts.Ralph ---->:fogey:---"I will kick you'r ASS DICK J"

[Michael82]

the only way I see them staying is a new buyer also buys up lots of property on the waterfront to build a stadium...then they invest lots of bucks in the hope of generating money from other things.

Isn't there rumors that Donald Trump is a Bills fan and a friend of Jim Kelly? Hmmm.....I'm sure he'd love to be one that rebuilt downtown Buffalo into another Cleveland...

[Michael82]

In a word? No.

Let's face it. Pro sports teams EVERYWHERE are not getting sweet land deals and super leases the way they were 15 years ago. Tax payers (especially since the downturn) are no longer interested in subsidizing huge stadiums when schools, and roads are falling apart.

those deals like Phoenix were giving out just don't happen anymore.

There are far too many bigger needs than a 500mill+ dome.... especially with no corporate help and a lot of people already out fo work in the sad-sack WNY economy.

Apparently you missed the sweetheart deal that Jerry Jones got to move his stadium. And you also missed the sweetheart deal New York gave to both the Yankees and the Mets for their new stadiums...

[Canadian'eh!]

Apparently you missed the sweetheart deal that Jerry Jones got to move his stadium. And you also missed the sweetheart deal New York gave to both the Yankees and the Mets for their new stadiums...


New York and Dallas.... Do you think they would get those deals from cities like Cleveland, Cincy, or Buffalo?

No chance

[Canadian'eh!]

Isn't there rumors that Donald Trump is a Bills fan and a friend of Jim Kelly? Hmmm.....I'm sure he'd love to be one that rebuilt downtown Buffalo into another Cleveland...

MIkey... I think you need to start preparing yourself for the possibility that the Bills will leave now. I don't want you to be the guy on TV they keep showing standing outside the stadium in full Bills gear screaming and crying while pounding on the locked doors.

[ddaryl]

Isn't there rumors that Donald Trump is a Bills fan and a friend of Jim Kelly? Hmmm.....I'm sure he'd love to be one that rebuilt downtown Buffalo into another Cleveland...


until the tax issues get resolved in NYS and until the corruption in government is removed (never going to happen in Buffalo or anywhere else in this country) and the way is paved for new industry there is no chance.



and as for the NFL helping out with stadiums... They won't give a dime to a place like Buffalo .. not a chance.. there is just no ROI. Bilions for NYC yes...

Our days are numbered and I was holding on to a shred of hope that Ralph would make one real last run for glory... but it has gone beyond obvious he doesn't care about the fans who lined his pockets...

[Dr. Pepper]

Isn't there rumors that Donald Trump is a Bills fan and a friend of Jim Kelly? Hmmm.....I'm sure he'd love to be one that rebuilt downtown Buffalo into another Cleveland...

definitely a pipe dream, but maaaaaaan would that be sweet!

[THATHURMANATOR]

Build Buffalo into another Cleveland??? Is that what we are going for?

There is something to this though. I have read quite a few articles stating that since Real Estate in the city is so inexpensive it is attractive to investors.

[Mr. Pink]

Build Buffalo into another Cleveland??? Is that what we are going for?

There is something to this though. I have read quite a few articles stating that since Real Estate in the city is so inexpensive it is attractive to investors.


But then the taxes are so REDICULOUS and the politicians even worse.

[THATHURMANATOR]

But then the taxes are so REDICULOUS and the politicians even worse.
:doh:

[trapezeus]

New York and Dallas.... Do you think they would get those deals from cities like Cleveland, Cincy, or Buffalo?

No chance

those stadium deals that NY and dallas received, mikey, were done pre economomic collapse. the stadiums were completed after, but the financing put in place during much better times when credit was fast and loose.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We dont' need a billion dollar stadium though.

[Dr. Pepper]

We dont' need a billion dollar stadium though.

950 mil?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why that much? How much was Heinze field or Cleveland's new one? No were near that much.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Stadium Facts
Date opened: August 11, 2001
Cost: $281 Million
Seating Capacity: 64,450
Club seats: 6,600
Suites: 127
Locker rooms: 4 (275 Lockers)
Construction Began: June 18, 1999
Scoreboards: 96 feet x 27 feet expansion capability
Playing surface: Natural Grass (2.04 acres) Heated
Owner:: Sports & Exhibition Authority of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County

[Dr. Pepper]

i was jk

[THATHURMANATOR]

Cleveland Browns Stadium
Owner: City of Cleveland
Year Opened: 1999
Capacity: 73,300
Cost To Build: $300 mil
Concessionaire: SportService
Average Ticket Price: $49

[trapezeus]

I'll do you one better. We don't need a new stadium, period. They've got a great stadium and it's of no charge to the team. no one complains about it other than Jerry jones and dan synders.

[BertSquirtgum]

can you imagine the cluster fu** traffic would be after a bills game in downtown buffalo. terrible idea. niagara falls would be a better option.

[Canadian'eh!]

Whoever negged me in this thread. (looking at thurm)... i never said I WANT the team to move... I'll be hoping for a miracle....

But looking at it objectively, you have to admit it doesn't look promising.

[Typ0]

I'll do you one better. We don't need a new stadium, period. They've got a great stadium and it's of no charge to the team. no one complains about it other than Jerry jones and dan synders.

the stadium is old and outdated.

[Ebenezer]

the stadium is old and outdated.
as far as luxury boxes, without doubt

[trapezeus]

the stadium is old and outdated.

i've been to the newer ones. do you really want the hall ways to have more enclosed space and serve the same **** food? the jumbotron is new, seats are new. the stadium works. we don't need to get an inflated cost stadium to jack prices of the seats from $70 to $140 to see the same crap and then get a load of how much it stinks to still be in buffalo.

no one i know who goes to games complains about it. the stadium is one of the last that still lets the fan sit close enough to the field and feel like they are part of it.

[Canadian'eh!]

i've been to the newer ones. do you really want the hall ways to have more enclosed space and serve the same **** food? the jumbotron is new, seats are new. the stadium works. we don't need to get an inflated cost stadium to jack prices of the seats from $70 to $140 to see the same crap and then get a load of how much it stinks to still be in buffalo.

no one i know who goes to games complains about it. the stadium is one of the last that still lets the fan sit close enough to the field and feel like they are part of it.

If it means keeping the team... then yeah... we need a new stadium

[THATHURMANATOR]

Whoever negged me in this thread. (looking at thurm)... i never said I WANT the team to move... I'll be hoping for a miracle....

But looking at it objectively, you have to admit it doesn't look promising.
It wasn't me.

[HHURRICANE]

The Bills could use a new stadium, downtown. It'll never happen because NY State is the kiss of death for any businessman.

I would love to have my business back in Buffalo, hiring Buffalonians. Not happening because of NY State.

[Canadian'eh!]

It wasn't me.

Well.. all it said was "I hate Canadians", and since you've chronicled your feelings towards us before.....

hat ebing said it realy could have been anyone. lol.