I don't see why there is so much worry about Drew

[BF_in_Indiana]

Bills Nation is in an uproar over his "inability" to beat Billy boy and the Pats. WHY? He lost twice to them. It happens, we got swept the year before he got here too. Maybe it is our COACHING STAFFS inability to put together a gameplan to beat the Pats? The fact that the D gave up two TDs in the first game before Drew ever even threw 5 passes doesn't help matters.

I think Drew ends this losing streak against the Pats this September.........

[LtBillsFan66]

Right. And Drew didn't play defense. He didn't give up all them points.

[Captain gameboy]

Uh Oh.
I hear the preliminary rumblings of an earthquake here.
Someone has just thrown meat to the tiger.

[LABillsFan]

The uproar is all emotion because it's Drew's old team. The fact of the matter is it's a division opponent and getting swept severly hurts your chances in winning the division. We don't hear much of getting swept by the Jets when those 2 loses hurt just as bad. It's the new rivaly much like the Kelly/Marino days. I just hope it's not like the Bills/Dolphins of the 70's.

[Kicker22705]

Here comes Wys

[Judge]

From what I can tell, there's only one person upset about Drew Bledsoe's play for the Bills last year. He just happens to be the most "prolific" of the posters on here and gives the impression that he has support for his arguments.

[BF_in_Indiana]

Fortunately I was born the year the streak was broken. I didn't have to suffer through the 70's, it would have been awful.

[LABillsFan]

I was alive and well and it WAS awful. My father had a restaurant outside of the city and I remember after a game, Shula was there eating dinner with some of his coaches. Not only did he beat the Bills, now he's breaking bread at my father's. I threw on my Bills jacket and just stood there watching him eat. My father got so pissed at me for making Shula's hair stand on edge. Never saw him at the restaurant again.

[Cntrygal]

Welcome to the Zone BF_in_Indiana!!!!!

I was alive in the 70s... but was "young".... so that "dead era" is very vague. :insane:

[Bufftp]

Originally posted by Cntrygal

I was alive in the 70s... but was "young"....
:rofl:
young to somebody 60 ;)

[BF_in_Indiana]

Thank you for the welcome. I have been fortunate enough to watch the Bills dominate Miami since the day I was born, which is a good thing. LOL.

[Mom]

Absolutely.... it IS the inability of our coaching staff. That plus the fact that BB KNOWS all about Drews' capabilities & weaknesses.

I think that until we get a coaching staff that can put together a gameplan to outsmart Belichek, we will continue to be the Patsies doormat.

It ALL comes down to the gameplan, IMO. Give this team a plan, & they WILL defeat the Pats.

:gobills:

[WG]

Originally posted by gameboy
Uh Oh.
I hear the preliminary rumblings of an earthquake here.
Someone has just thrown meat to the tiger.

:lolcry: ROFLMAO!!!

Wys :spanku: Drew

[Cntrygal]

Originally posted by Bufftp

:rofl:
young to somebody 60 ;)

:tongue:

[Tatonka]

i would be one person who is concerned about drews inability to win "big" games, not necessarily the games against the pats..

other than the dolphins games (which were played against Lucas), did he beat anyone with a good record last year? no.

but i remember his decisions single handedly killed us in the raiders game and the KC game. he threw two of the worst picks trying to force the ball. and both of those games were easily winable. he also couldnt do a single thing against the pack, when we needed him to.. and could have cost us the game in san diego throwing a pick in the endzone after audibling to the pass on first and second down at the 5 yard line.

i am a drew supporter.. i like the guy.. and it is fun to cheer for him when he is kicking the crap out of the vikes horrible defense, or the bengals horrible defense.. but i cant stand watching him look totally confused at the pats just because the defensive linemen are standing up..

color me concerned, but not overly. i hope this years offense, and defense, should help him.

[G. Host]

Because Drew has a real problem with his short game overthrowing receivers and the Patriots seem to specialize in forcing that kind of offense. The lack of creativity the Bills coaching staff has shown allows Bellicheck to apply the crazy schemes which the coaching staff are unable to adjust to.

[Doc]

You can't seriously blame Bledsoe for the Raiders loss! When you score 30+ points and STILL lose, you know there's something wrong OTHER than the QB. As for the Chiefs loss, Warfield made a great leaping INT to basically seal the game, and Gilbride should have ran Henry down their throats on that final drive but, as was his wont, abandoned it for the big play. Don't forget also the Bills were screwed over by the refs numerous times in that game, a fact which was corroborated by of all people a KC sportswriter. Same goes for the Packers game where the Bills were robbed of an Ahman Green fumble that would have been returned for a TD and probably been enough to win the game. Believe it or not, Favre actually had a worse QB rating, and luckily for him HE didn't have his starting WR tip a ball into the air in the endzone to have it INT'd and kill a scoring chance.

Was Drew perfect last year? No. Could he have played better? Obviously then yes. Was he the main problem? Hardly.

[WG]

Originally posted by Tatonka
i would be one person who is concerned about drews inability to win "big" games, not necessarily the games against the pats..

other than the dolphins games (which were played against Lucas), did he beat anyone with a good record last year? no.

but i remember his decisions single handedly killed us in the raiders game and the KC game. he threw two of the worst picks trying to force the ball. and both of those games were easily winable. he also couldnt do a single thing against the pack, when we needed him to.. and could have cost us the game in san diego throwing a pick in the endzone after audibling to the pass on first and second down at the 5 yard line.

i am a drew supporter.. i like the guy.. and it is fun to cheer for him when he is kicking the crap out of the vikes horrible defense, or the bengals horrible defense.. but i cant stand watching him look totally confused at the pats just because the defensive linemen are standing up..

color me concerned, but not overly. i hope this years offense, and defense, should help him.

You Drew Hater you! ;)

Funny thing is T, that w/ only an exception, maybe two, Drew has played exactly like that year in and year out! So I question whether a QB of his experience is apt to change. I say no! I also said if he did it it would have happened in the second half of last year after teams knew or team. Instead, the opposite happened!

So, ...

...you be the judge. It's like askin' a leopard to change his spots. As well, if he doesn't, then how would you rate our chances for winning 3 or 4 straight playoff games? I don't rate it that well since QB is a pivotal position then.

All I can say is that if he continues that, that TD has the foresight to find his replacement very and perhaps even try another Price type trade for Drew next year. IMO the biggest thing that he is gonna do has been done and that's put fannies in the seats. Since that's been done and since those fannies remaining now depend upon us winning and winning in the playoffs, I would say I'll give Drew this season. If he still craps-the-bed v. the division, Philly, Tennessee and another team or two, then I don't think we have a choice.

We could still hang onto him and rave about yardage, a handful of big-plays that are exciting, attempts, past seasons, etc., or we can make a move that would correct our situation at QB in order to take it to the next level. It may very well come down to fan favoritism over team good.

I can tell you that if he does play that way again, that I won't be purchasing seasons next year if he stays on as starter. At least not directly. I'm tired of hype over performance! We had that crap w/ Flutie and it got us nowhere!

[WG]

Originally posted by G. Host
Because Drew has a real problem with his short game overthrowing receivers and the Patriots seem to specialize in forcing that kind of offense. The lack of creativity the Bills coaching staff has shown allows Bellicheck to apply the crazy schemes which the coaching staff are unable to adjust to.

Belichick didn't help G, but he doesn't coach the Raiders, Jets, Phins, K.C., and Pack.

[WG]

Originally posted by Doc
You can't seriously blame Bledsoe for the Raiders loss! When you score 30+ points and STILL lose, you know there's something wrong OTHER than the QB. As for the Chiefs loss, Warfield made a great leaping INT to basically seal the game, and Gilbride should have ran Henry down their throats on that final drive but, as was his wont, abandoned it for the big play.

Yes, there was something wrong other than the QB, but the QB was wrong as well and perhaps more than any other single aspect of that game. 2 key picks, one while we were trailing by only 4 that gave the game away on a TD return!

As to K.C., 16 points against a D the likes of K.C. should have been enough for Drew to have hung his head after that game!

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Doc

1. You can't seriously blame Bledsoe for the Raiders loss! When you score 30+ points and STILL lose, you know there's something wrong OTHER than the QB.

2. As for the Chiefs loss, Warfield made a great leaping INT to basically seal the game, and Gilbride should have ran Henry down their throats on that final drive but, as was his wont, abandoned it for the big play.

3. Same goes for the Packers game where the Bills were robbed of an Ahman Green fumble that would have been returned for a TD and probably been enough to win the game. Believe it or not, Favre actually had a worse QB rating, and luckily for him HE didn't have his starting WR tip a ball into the air in the endzone to have it INT'd and kill a scoring chance.

4. Was Drew perfect last year? No. Could he have played better? Obviously then yes. Was he the main problem? Hardly.

1. yes, i can blame him.. he threw the crucial pick trying to force the ball to moulds, and let a rookie (buchanan, i think?) intercept him.. right on the sidelines, and take it to the house.. that was the ball game.. defense was horrible, but if drew doesnt throw that pick, we win, imho. it turned the whole game.

2. drew could have thrown a 10 yard pass and played it safe, run the clock out, and got into field goal range to win the game.. instead, with like 4 minutes left, he decides to heave the ball down the field into DOUBLE coverage.. right into a safety's waiting hands.. we dont know if he audibled out of a run play or no, like he did SO MANY times last season, but he could have played smart and we would have won, instead.. he tried to be the hero and killed us.

3. he scored NO points... period.. the defense did its job, and drew did nothing when the playoffs were on the line.

4. no, drew wasnt the whole problem, but he was the main problem on offense in the second half of the season. this year will be the true judge.. if drew plays like crap when we need big wins, and keeps throwing picks during clutch time at the end of games, then i will be all over him like white on rice.. i like him (meaning he could be good enough to win a championship with if he plays smart), but i am just not a believer yet after watching the way he performed the second half of the season last year.

[BillsMan80]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


Yes, there was something wrong other than the QB, but the QB was wrong as well and perhaps more than any other single aspect of that game. 2 key picks, one while we were trailing by only 4 that gave the game away on a TD return!


Bull**** that Bledsoe was the worst in that game. Rich Gannon and Charlie Garner ate our defense alive. Our defense gave up 42 points. That is quite honestly, PATHETIC. Let's get real now. Take those 7 points away and we still lose 42-31. And I believe one of his INTs was thrown during garbage time anyway.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


You Drew Hater you! ;)



i am not a hater.. i am just not afraid to call a spade a spade.. i am not in the ostrich club.. but i am not as adimate as you either

:spider:

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by BillsMan80


Bull**** that Bledsoe was the worst in that game. Rich Gannon and Charlie Garner ate our defense alive. Our defense gave up 42 points. That is quite honestly, PATHETIC. Let's get real now. Take those 7 points away and we still lose 42-31. And I believe one of his INTs was thrown during garbage time anyway.

drew doesnt throw the picks, then the raiders offense is not on the field to score.. his pick completely turned the tide of that game.. i dont care what anyone says.

[BillsMan80]

Originally posted by Tatonka


drew doesnt throw the picks, then the raiders offense is not on the field to score.. his pick completely turned the tide of that game.. i dont care what anyone says.

Ok, so we score there and make it 38-34...but you honestly think we would have won? LMAO...sorry to break it to you, but the Raiders would have marched right back down the field and lit up our sieve defense. We would have been right back where we started, down 41-38 if Bledsoe hadn't thrown that pick.

[Tatonka]

we will never know, because drew let a rookie take him to the house and killed it for us.

[BillsMan80]

Originally posted by Tatonka
we will never know, because drew let a rookie take him to the house and killed it for us.

He didn't let him obviously. From what I heard though it was a good play. But anyway, you have to take chances when your defense plays like pilons. And sometimes that means they come back to haunt you. It sucks only having 1 productive unit.

[DATGUY52]

It appears that there is enough "blame" to go around. The coaching staff has had problems putting a thoroughly good game plan together, coupled with Drew's seeming inability to control the short passing game. Both need to improve if we are ever to have the kind of record we need within the division.

[Doc]

So the criticism is that Drew couldn't single-handedly (and let's face it, the Bills' defense might as well not have shown up that day) beat the Raiders? That's far from a condemnation when you consider MOST QB's can't win games single-handedly, hence the concept of team. As for the Packers game, I'd also lay blame at the feet of Ruben who allowed Holliday to have a career day against him (what was it, 5 sacks that day?!), Price bobbling a pass in the endzone that was INT'd and killed a scoring chance, and some of the worst conditions that even Favre had ever seen at the Frozen Tundra (and again, Favre had a worse QB rating in that game). Last of all, WRT the Chefs game, I'd lay a lot of the blame at Gilbride's feet for not running the ball exclusively on that final drive, after the Bills got a 1st down and were on the Chefs side of the field. Hopefully all of these things will change this year with more familiarity and a better defense, but to blame Bledsoe for being the catalyst for the Bills improving 5 games from the year before is really pushing it.

[WG]

Originally posted by BF_in_Indiana
I don't see why there is so much worry about Drew

BTW, you will see why this season unfortunately!

[WG]

Originally posted by BillsMan80


Bull**** that Bledsoe was the worst in that game. Rich Gannon and Charlie Garner ate our defense alive. Our defense gave up 42 points. That is quite honestly, PATHETIC. Let's get real now. Take those 7 points away and we still lose 42-31. And I believe one of his INTs was thrown during garbage time anyway.

The one spoonin' out BS is you 80.

If on that drive where Drew threw the pick to Buchanon he would have led us to a score instead, we would have been up by 3 and not down by 11!

Yeah, I think that's very significant! In the red zone as well returned for 81 yards, and as T says, by a rookie CB.!!!

And then, in spite of that, in a game where Oakland hadn't really proven that they could keep us out of the endzone, does Drew come right back and lead us down for at least a FG to pull us w/in a TD and 2-pt. conversion w/ over 8 minutes remaining in the game?

NO! He gets sacked for a loss of 4 on 1st and 10, then sacked for a loss of 8 on 2nd and 14, then throws incomplete on 3rd and 22 of his own making! Where does all of his vast array of all this experience come into play??? Isn't it supposed to be critical at times like that?

Then, the Raiders score to put the game away, which if he hadn't thrown that initial pick, we'd still have been only trailing by 4 if in fact we hadn't been able to put the ball into the endzone or get a FG where we were in range. Down by only 1 or up by 3 otherwise!!!

Meanwhile, on our next drive, Drew goes 4 for 10 and then throws another pick to end any hopes at all for a comeback within the last 3 minutes. He threw that pick on 2nd-and-7 at the Oakland 7.

SO 80, Mr. Analysis, you can plainly see barring your biases, that if he doesn't throw those two picks, we are positioned for an easy FG in the first instance, possibly more, and have the ball on 2nd and 7 going in in the second. If we had gotten 10 out of those and NOT given up 7 directly by throwing the ball to the opposition to go down and score a TD, then the score would have easily been 42-41 where we would have had an option of going for the extra point on our last TD and where we may have even scored a TD instead of a FG on that first drive.

But no matter how you slice it, likely we would have played differently being up by 3 or so v. being down by 11 on D, and as well, we wouldn't have given the Raiders all that momentum either.

But to say that on offense especially, the only problem wasn't Drew, is silly! Pretty much the only problem on offense was Drew. 2 TDs, 3 INTs. Both of the last INTs cost us between 10 and 14 and one of them handed the Raiders 7 on a golden platter!! So that's a 21 point swing. I.e., his contributions for good and bad essentially negated each other. Big deal! This is the markings of a Pro Bowl QB??? Sad thing is that as T states, he did this fairly consistently and for sure against all the best teams we played.

If you don't think that made a difference in an 18 point game, then go retake 4th grade math. ;)

[Doc]

Okay then, I guess we've established that Drew can't win games all by himself. Just out of curiosity, what QB's DID you like last year Wys? There must not have been too many.

[WG]

Originally posted by Doc
So the criticism is that Drew couldn't single-handedly (and let's face it, the Bills' defense might as well not have shown up that day) beat the Raiders? That's far from a condemnation when you consider MOST QB's can't win games single-handedly, hence the concept of team. As for the Packers game, I'd also lay blame at the feet of Ruben who allowed Holliday to have a career day against him (what was it, 5 sacks that day?!), Price bobbling a pass in the endzone that was INT'd and killed a scoring chance, and some of the worst conditions that even Favre had ever seen at the Frozen Tundra (and again, Favre had a worse QB rating in that game). Last of all, WRT the Chefs game, I'd lay a lot of the blame at Gilbride's feet for not running the ball exclusively on that final drive, after the Bills got a 1st down and were on the Chefs side of the field. Hopefully all of these things will change this year with more familiarity and a better defense, but to blame Bledsoe for being the catalyst for the Bills improving 5 games from the year before is really pushing it.

Yeah, but Favre didn't make 3 additional TOs to ruin any reasonable chances of scoring at least 10 points. Like T says, he did nothing but negatives in that game! Nothing!

BTW, since you're Mr. QB Rating all of a sudden, Favre made a cricital error on the very first drive of the game and threw the first of his two picks to set us up at their 9 YL.

Why do you think we didn't score? B/c very clearly you are not factoring in certain very critical pieces of info on that game!

It was b/c Drew threw a pick after going 0 for his first pass on 3rd and 4! So who's fault was it that we didn't put up 7 early?

Favre's other INT was of no consequence. So Drew negated a TD for us and handed the Pack the ball at our 39 YL on a fumble on 4th and long to set up the Pack's only TD of the day!

Favre, 2 INTs, no fumbles.

Drew, 2 INTs one negating a Bills TD, 2 fumbles one leading to a Pack TD, and one ending the game on a 3/17 at the Pack 16 after an incomplete pass on 1/10, a sack on 2/10.

So talk rating all you want! And BTW, do we want to discuss rating? Will that help this argument?

B/c Drew had 7 of 16 games rated below 80 and 9 of 16 rated below 81.5. Drew was all over the page last year. It was feast or famine. Usually feast against scrub teams and famine against the better ones. His top rated games were against, Chicago, Miami in the snow, Minnesota, Cincy, and Houston. Big deal. We don't need top games against teams that we can beat w/ an injury list a mile long, we need them against the better teams, eh.

Or heck, just call me silly, but I prefer to see some evidence that we won't get smoked in round one or two of the playoffs. If last season was any judge, even if we had made the playoffs, we could have expected Drew to play poorly and a resulting loss.

Now if I change my standards to being satisfied w/ players in the probowl, yardage numbers, a minimal amount of plays where a Bledsoe-to-Moulds tandem really beats out an opponent on a given play, and all sorts of other exciting stuff, then maybe I'll be happy.

But alas, my contentment comes from our ability to win the Superbowl or at least the AFC championship. As such, my hopes are a tad bit more subdued than yours may be. ;)

[BillsMan80]

Ok there smarty. For starters, if Bledsoe doesn't throw the INT, who knows if we score. Besides, It wouldn't have mattered if the offense put up 40 points that day. The defense was so abysmal it wasn't even funny. If you honestly think that Bledsoe was more at fault for that game than the defense, you are smoking some good stuff.

Just everyone be happy that we have a top 10 or top 5 QB in the NFL for the first time since Kelly.

[WG]

Originally posted by Doc
Okay then, I guess we've established that Drew can't win games all by himself. Just out of curiosity, what QB's DID you like last year Wys? There must not have been too many.

Well, let's do this:

If last season is to serve as a guide again, then Drew will:

Have 5 TDs to 10 TOs in 5 divisional games! I'm sure you'd agree that our chances of being any better than 2-4 in the division would be dismal under such a scenario, right? Or do you think that on average you can have your QB, on a passing oriented team I might add, throw 1 TD/2 INTs?

Have 3 TDs to 12 TOs in 4 games v. playoff teams! That's an average of less than 1 TD/game to 3 TOs/game and a 4-to-1 ratio between TOs and TDs Doc! Will you be happy w/ that against every playoff team that we face? More importantly, does that somehow suggest to you that he wouldn't do the same v. those same playoff teams once we got to the playoffs? As well, we figure to play more than 4 games against would-be playoff teams this season.

Have 13 TDs to 18 TOs in games v. teams that are .500 or better! That's an average of barely over 1 TD/game and over 1.5 TOs/game against teams at .500 or better. Since we play 13 of 16 games against teams that could fit that mold, and since we play what could likely be 6 games v. playoff teams, and since we play all 6 divisional games this season, and we're not likely to face Miami A. in a majorleague snowstorm again, although it's possible, but we're certainly not going to face them w/ a scrub QB and their two starting WRs out, eh. Or at least it's not really likely.

So let's say last season's trend holds, Drew will likely have (assuming one big game v. a divisional team):

14 TDs to 20 TOs this year v. likely more .500 teams or thereabouts, and assuming that he does what he did against Cincy and Houston again, and about the same v. Dallas and/or Jax, then he'll add another 6 TDs w/ 1 or no TOs.

So he'd be 20TDs/20 TOs this season, but 14/20 v. the 12 teams other than Houston, Cincy, Dallas, and Jax. And frankly, I'm not all that convinced that Jax or Dallas won't be .500 or at least 7-9.

It'll also likely mean 2-4 at best again in the division, especially if as reported, we aren't going to change our offense at all.

Does that excite you Doc?

[WG]

80, I'm really tired of arguing this point. We'll all find out soon enough if T and I are FoS, or if we're right! BTW, take a moment and run thru Drew's past 10 seasons and see if you don't see a pattern...! ;)


And Doc,

I guess I didn't directly answer your question, albeit it indirectly.

I would like any QB who doesn't play so crappy against all the best teams all the time!

That's quite a few QBs in the league and many who are "ranked" below Drew b/c Drew has such widespread unsubstantiated fan appeal.

Many QBs can put up 24 TDs on over 600 attempts w/ WRs like Moulds, Reed, and Price. Drew ranked 21st in TD%. What that means is that given the same number of attempts, there are 20 QBs ahead of Drew who would have put up more TDs than 24 w/ as many attempts that he had. Blake, Matthews, Couch, Miller, and Peete were among them.

As well, and a stat that isn't used at all, if you run the same percentage thing w/ yards instead of attempts, you'd find that Drew throws for more yards to get a TD than most QBs in the league and ranks near dead last!

That's barely ahead of Harrington last year w/ his squad. In fact, as I see it, the only QBs lagging Drew in that area are Harrington, Carr, Hutchinson, Carter, Dilfer, Chandler, and Lucas. That's it!

I can't imagine how Drew would have fared on their respective teams while they would have played here in Buffalo! Can you? Let's just say that I hope we could at least agree that it would be bleak for Drew!

So in short, any QB who doesn't need to launch near 200 yards passing to get the ball into the endzone once would be good to have, and secondly, one who doesn't play Santa Claus at the most key moments of the season like clockwork!

So see, I'm not really picky at all now...

He's a great guy personality wise and therefore I fully understand it, but that doesn't mean I want him on this team continuing to play like he did last year and just as he has for 10 seasons almost w/o exception! He can be my nextdoor neighbor w/o hesitation however! ;)

[Doc]

WRT the Green Bay game and Bledsoe's first INT, didn't Price tip the ball into the air to allow for it to be INT'd? As for Bledsoe's 2nd INT, it was also "of no consequence," just like Favre's 2nd INT. Last of all Bledsoe was sacked 6 times and fumbled 4, recovering once, while Favre was sacked twice, fumbling once and recovering it. Do you notice something in there? Fortunately for the Pack the refs gave them a hometown call when Ahman Green clearly fumbled after catching a pass, which was returned for a TD and probably would have been the decisive points. However instead on the next play Favre took advantage of a defensive letdown and scored what proved to be the decisive points. My point in bringing up the QB ratings was to objectively show that Favre struggled that day as well but had his defense come up big for him time and time again. I'm not surprised Bledsoe's QB rating suffered in games against tougher opponents because he was required to shoulder the load more given the lousy state of the defense.

[BillsMan80]

He had a few bad games, the 2nd Patriots Game, and the Packers Game come to mind. You happen to blame every single INT on Drew. I can remember at least 2 or 3 INTs that were directly a responsibility of a WR dropping or tipping a ball right into the defender's hand. In fact, in the first Jets game, if I remember, Drew threw an INT because Riemersma ran the wrong route and then Riemersma was the reason for Drew's 1st INT against the Jets because he dropped a pass that was right to him and Beasley caught it on the tip.

[WG]

Yeah, a few bad games...

Unfortunately only a few good ones as well, and ALWAYS against teams that sucked, teams that had injuries (significant ones) comin' outta their ears, or in one instance in a bizarre combination of injuries and weather!

Sorry fellas, that's all for this thread. This gets tedious. Think what you want.

[Doc]

Ditto.