Watch this guy sling the ball!!!

[X-Era]

Max Hall from BYU sould be in consideration for us if were thinking QB in the offseason...

Watch this:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4572318

Hes got skill.

Im looking forward to watching his game more thoroughly.

[Ingtar33]

BYU QBs are like University of Florida (both in the Spurrier and Meyer regimes) QBs. an NFL team would be mad to draft one.

[DraftBoy]

Size issue, age issue, and lack of reading defenses are the big three red flags so far.

[X-Era]

Size issue, age issue, and lack of reading defenses are the big three red flags so far.

Its still early, I want to see more. But on his raw ability to throw the ball, he has everything you want. Size I would agree with except for guys like Brees or Steve Young (fellow BYU alumn). I dont think its a huge issue at 6' 1", provided he has throwing lanes and can see over the linemen. Age is age, a few years older (24) doesn't necessarily hurt with players playing into the late 30's.

I want to see more from him. Numbers wise hes done more than enough, but I don't put huge stock in those... Id rather evaluate him by watching him.

[X-Era]

BYU QBs are like University of Florida (both in the Spurrier and Meyer regimes) QBs. an NFL team would be mad to draft one.
Steve Young?

[Crisis]

John Beck?

[X-Era]

John Beck?

Is BYU able to produce NFL quality QB's or not? Better yet, is there data to suggest that they have a lower NFL success rate than other colleges?

[DraftBoy]

Is BYU able to produce NFL quality QB's or not? Better yet, is there data to suggest that they have a lower NFL success rate than other colleges?


Non Traditional Offense programs do produce NFL caliber QB's at a lower percentage. How many awesome QB's has Texas Tech produced since they went to the throw it 90 times a game method?

[X-Era]

Non Traditional Offense programs do produce NFL caliber QB's at a lower percentage. How many awesome QB's has Texas Tech produced since they went to the throw it 90 times a game method?
Come on, we cant hen pick.

Hawaii, Texas Tech, there's plenty like that I agree.

There's also plenty of pro style offensive teams that dont always put out starting quality QB's.

[DraftBoy]

Come on, we cant hen pick.

Hawaii, Texas Tech, there's plenty like that I agree.

There's also plenty of pro style offensive teams dont always put out starting quality QB's.

Data doesn't lie, look at the top successful NFL QB's;

Brady
Manning
Brees

All played in Pro Style Offenses in College. That's only three, I could go on, but I think you get my point.

[X-Era]

Data doesn't lie, look at the top successful NFL QB's;

Brady
Manning
Brees

All played in Pro Style Offenses in College. That's only three, I could go on, but I think you get my point.
Ok, Brady played at Michigan, who else was so great from there?
How about Tenessee? and Purdue?

Notre Dame? Nebraska?

Take your pick.

And this says Michigan and Purdue use the spread offense???

http://football.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_spread_offense

Did they always?

[DraftBoy]

Ok, Brady played at Michigan, who else was so great from there?
How about Tenessee? and Purdue?

Notre Dame? Nebraska?

Take your pick.


The ability of one specific program to produce an NFL QB isn't the question though. Its what system best produces NFL QB's and that data is clear. NFL style offenses produce NFL ready QB's.

Matt Ryan in Boston College is another great example.

[DraftBoy]

Ok, Brady played at Michigan, who else was so great from there?
How about Tenessee? and Purdue?

Notre Dame? Nebraska?

Take your pick.

And this says Michigan and Purdue use the spread offense???

http://football.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_spread_offense

Did they always?
Michigan and Purdue just recently turned to spread offenses.

[X-Era]

The ability of one specific program to produce an NFL QB isn't the question though. Its what system best produces NFL QB's and that data is clear. NFL style offenses produce NFL ready QB's.

Matt Ryan in Boston College is another great example.

This talks about this exact issue and points to Flacco as being a guy who ran a lot from the shotgun:

http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/smarterstats/2009/02/harrells-folly-the-spread-offense-in-the-nfl.html

I like this comment "That's why you have to watch each player individually before you make a projection"

Its something to consider and like anything else, you would rather stack the deck for you instead of against you, but I don't think you can automatically discard someone just because they play in a pass happy offense.

[X-Era]

Here's another one that says Miami of Ohio ran a spread offense when Roeth played there.

http://www.nationalchamps.net/2003/sub/teams/miamiOH.htm

[DraftBoy]

This talks about this exact issue and points to Flacco as being a guy who ran a lot from the shotgun:

http://views.washingtonpost.com/theleague/smarterstats/2009/02/harrells-folly-the-spread-offense-in-the-nfl.html

I like this comment "That's why you have to watch each player individually before you make a projection"

Its something to consider and like anything else, you would rather stack the deck for you instead of against you, but I don't think you can automatically discard someone just because they play in a pass happy offense.


Yes but running out of a shotgun set is not running a spread offense. The spread requires one read, the shotgun set is designed to give the QB an extra second. Not the same thing.

[DraftBoy]

Here's another one that says Miami of Ohio ran a spread offense when Roeth played there.

http://www.nationalchamps.net/2003/sub/teams/miamiOH.htm


If you really want to run a tally we can, but Im telling you well in advance what the end results are going to show.

[X-Era]

If you really want to run a tally we can, but Im telling you well in advance what the end results are going to show.

I just dont want to claim that a QB in a spread O cant play QB in the NFL.

[DraftBoy]

I just dont want to claim that a QB in a spread O cant play QB in the NFL.

I dont believe anybody said that.

[X-Era]

I dont believe anybody said that.

:up:

[Ground Chuck]

Michigan and Purdue just recently turned to spread offenses.

Purdue has run the spread for at least the last 10-15 years. Joe Tiller was one of the first to use it extensively. Brees, Orton, and Curtis Painter were all in the spread most of the time. Actually, the current coach runs more "traditional" I back sets.

[DraftBoy]

Purdue has run the spread for at least the last 10-15 years. Joe Tiller was one of the first to use it extensively. Brees, Orton, and Curtis Painter were all in the spread most of the time. Actually, the current coach runs more "traditional" I back sets.


Hmm...When Big Ten Network did the game a few weeks ago they were talking all about Purdue's newly implemented spread offense.

[psubills62]

Hmm...When Big Ten Network did the game a few weeks ago they were talking all about Purdue's newly implemented spread offense.

Haha the BTN isn't too reliable. They often can't even return to a game in time for people to watch the first down play. Pretty much every game I've seen on there goes to commercial after a punt or kick and when they get back, I see a team running it on 2nd and 7 or something like that.

I go to Purdue but admittedly know little about their history before I came here a couple of years ago. I do know that Tiller introduced the spread to the Big Ten and I've never heard of Tiller running any other kind of offense, tbh. Wouldn't be surprised at all to hear that Brees did play in a spread offense at Purdue.

[X-Era]

This says Tiller started the spread O in 97.

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/26874740

[Ground Chuck]

Hmm...When Big Ten Network did the game a few weeks ago they were talking all about Purdue's newly implemented spread offense.

It's new because they don't line up 3 and 4 wide as much as they used to.

[Ingtar33]

There is a big difference between a 1 read spread offense and running your plays from shotgun.

When Brees was at Perdue they ran pretty much all of their plays from a shotgun, however, Brees had to make multiple reads... and had a number of options to throw to.

Michigan used to run a pro style and Tennessee ran a pro style offense with Manning as well (so did Boston College with Ryan).

BYU produces good looking QB numbers but not often do they produce a good QB.

[X-Era]

There is a big difference between a 1 read spread offense and running your plays from shotgun.

When Brees was at Perdue they ran pretty much all of their plays from a shotgun, however, Brees had to make multiple reads... and had a number of options to throw to.

Michigan used to run a pro style and Tennessee ran a pro style offense with Manning as well (so did Boston College with Ryan).

BYU produces good looking QB numbers but not often do they produce a good QB.

Who else has Michigan produced that was great? Or Tennessee?

And BYU produced Steve Young.

I understand the premise and would agree. But with so many college teams running the spread... and successful NFL players coming from these systems... Its a data point, but by no means can it be a reason disregard a player.

[Ingtar33]

Who else has Michigan produced that was great? Or Tennessee?

And BYU produced Steve Young.

I understand the premise and would agree. But with so many college teams running the spread... and successful NFL players coming from these systems... Its a data point, but by no means can it be a reason disregard a player.

Michigan QBs?

not that all of them are great... but here is a list starting from the mid 80s off the top of my head...

Jim Harbaugh
Elvis Grbac
Todd Collins
Brian Griese
Tom Brady
Chad Henne

[Ingtar33]

Who else has Michigan produced that was great? Or Tennessee?

And BYU produced Steve Young.

I understand the premise and would agree. But with so many college teams running the spread... and successful NFL players coming from these systems... Its a data point, but by no means can it be a reason disregard a player.


define your terms.

there is a big difference between shotgun with multiple reads and options for the QB to throw to... and the current vernacular "Spread" which is basically a 1 read double option offense run out of shotgun.

Plenty of good pro QBs came out of college teams running wide open passing attacks with pro style reads and rout options. I can't think of a single good college QB who came out of a 1 read "spread" offense... not at the moment.

[X-Era]

Michigan QBs?

not that all of them are great... but here is a list starting from the mid 80s off the top of my head...

Jim Harbaugh
Elvis Grbac
Todd Collins
Brian Griese
Tom Brady
Chad Henne
1 out of them was any good for any sustained period of time. I'm not sure I could even call Harbaugh a franchise QB... but, OK, they have had 2.

[X-Era]

define your terms.

there is a big difference between shotgun with multiple reads and options for the QB to throw to... and the current vernacular "Spread" which is basically a 1 read double option offense run out of shotgun.

Plenty of good pro QBs came out of college teams running wide open passing attacks with pro style reads and rout options. I can't think of a single good college QB who came out of a 1 read "spread" offense... not at the moment.

My point is this.

We should look at each prospects ability to project to the NFL. I don't think we should categorically say someone wont make the transition just because of the style offense they play in.

Likelihood of success? I get all that, its a factor like any other. Small school vs. large school, level of competition, strength of the resat of the offense around them... We should take everything into account.