Besides LA, London will get a team soon

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Let me start off by say Buffalo WILL NOT lose there team. Buffalo fans come to the stadium, year in, year out and spend money and have a crazy fan base! The NFL has larger issues in places like Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Rams, and Arizona.

But I believe London will have a team. This experiment will turn into a team long terms in a few years.

[THATHURMANATOR]

So London gets a team before Toronto.

[cocamide]

It would suck to travel from Seattle to London and then back to Seattle to play a home game.

[OpIv37]

London won't have a team anytime soon. Aside from the fact that people on that side of the pond don't care about American football, it's simply too far and too expensive to fly a team to London every week (or fly a team from London to here).

Could you imagine a game against a West Coast team? That's roughly 12 hours of flying each way.

[HHURRICANE]

I'm more convinced, now than ever, that the Bills are gone. Ralph is keeping the overhead super low, so he can sell it for maximum profits.

You may not see the writing on the wall but I do.

[Goobylal]

I'm more convinced, now than ever, that the Bills are gone. Ralph is keeping the overhead super low, so he can sell it for maximum profits.

You may not see the writing on the wall but I do.
The only other viable market out there, i.e. one that can build a new stadium, is LA. Once that's filled, there's nothing left in the U.S. I don't think though that London gets one. And as long as the Bills are around (and there's no reason for a new owner to move the team there when he/she can simply split home games and save on the relocation and stadium costs), Toronto won't be getting a team.

[Tiburon1724]

I'm more convinced, now than ever, that the Bills are gone. Ralph is keeping the overhead super low, so he can sell it for maximum profits.

You may not see the writing on the wall but I do.

The less valuable the team is, the easier it will be for Kelly's group, if there is such a thing, to acquire it...

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Buffalo ain't going anywhere! Geez

[DMBcrew36]

London, England? Pshh, you're smoking crack if you think they would make teams cross the Atlantic every Sunday to play a football game. The odds of it happening are less than putting a team in London, Ontario.

[OpIv37]

Buffalo ain't going anywhere! Geez

keep pulling the wool over your eyes..... something drastic has to happen, or else the Bills are gone as soon as Ralph croaks. This LA stadium deal is VERY bad news for the Bills.

[DMBcrew36]

keep pulling the wool over your eyes..... something drastic has to happen, or else the Bills are gone as soon as Ralph croaks. This LA stadium deal is VERY bad news for the Bills.

I agree with everything, but my worries aren't really with the LA stadium deal. As long as Ralph doesn't kick the bucket in the next 3 years, the team will most certainly not be moving there. Jacksonville, San Diego, and Oakland are much more likely candidates, I feel. Essentially, any relocation of the Bills is 'over Ralph's dead body,' and as long as he's alive, we can all relax. It's when he dies that I'm worried, and it could be a move to anywhere at that point, not just LA.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

keep pulling the wool over your eyes..... something drastic has to happen, or else the Bills are gone as soon as Ralph croaks. This LA stadium deal is VERY bad news for the Bills.

Have you seen the attendance in Jacksonville and Cincy? Both are better teams than us that have brutal attendance and black outs. It won't happen!

[THATHURMANATOR]

I'm more convinced, now than ever, that the Bills are gone. Ralph is keeping the overhead super low, so he can sell it for maximum profits.

You may not see the writing on the wall but I do.
You are not a Visionary HH. You know nothing more about the situation than any of us...REMEMBER THAT.

[bluerosekiller]

The Bills to LA?

Nah. Too much of a long, bitter fight over that option. Especially when they've spent so many years making them a regional team & Toronto could step in at almost a moments notice to split the home games with us 4 - 4. Or, take over altogether.

As for LA, I see the Rams headed back there.

[trapezeus]

i think if NYS puts up a fight and says, "look, we funded this stadium for you. We have a team playing in here until the end of the lease at the very least!" We are ready to go to court over this. The NFL may say, "why deal with that headache when moving the chargers won't be too much of a hassle, red tape wise?"

There was a report that LA was looking at CAlifornia teams and then the rams, bills, minnesota, jags. I think there may be something to that to avoid a long battle. CA has nothing to lose financially if a team moves from one municipality to another.

Kelly's group can't lowball a stripped down Bills team. The owners won't approve a fire sale like that because it'll hurt their values. I doubt ralph is stripping it down for future sale. He's stripping it down for maximum revenue right now for him and his family.

Kelly seems to be very bold about his comments. Unless he's just strutting bravado, i think he actually has some basic level of working within the NFL, with Ralph's family, with the investor group and with NYS. He may be right. He might have that inside track.

As for Toronto, i think short term,it's important that Toronto give a better effort than it did last year. We need the NFL to be intrigued at its potential. It's not like it's buffalo or nothing to LA. There are options.

I really hope this rams thing goes through by the end of the year and they are moved. It'll buy us some time. Also, if that happens and ralph passes in 2010, they don't have any inheritance tax which would be a good thing.

[DMBcrew36]

i think if NYS puts up a fight and says, "look, we funded this stadium for you. We have a team playing in here until the end of the lease at the very least!" We are ready to go to court over this. The NFL may say, "why deal with that headache when moving the chargers won't be too much of a hassle, red tape wise?"

There was a report that LA was looking at CAlifornia teams and then the rams, bills, minnesota, jags. I think there may be something to that to avoid a long battle. CA has nothing to lose financially if a team moves from one municipality to another.

Kelly's group can't lowball a stripped down Bills team. The owners won't approve a fire sale like that because it'll hurt their values. I doubt ralph is stripping it down for future sale. He's stripping it down for maximum revenue right now for him and his family.

Kelly seems to be very bold about his comments. Unless he's just strutting bravado, i think he actually has some basic level of working within the NFL, with Ralph's family, with the investor group and with NYS. He may be right. He might have that inside track.

As for Toronto, i think short term,it's important that Toronto give a better effort than it did last year. We need the NFL to be intrigued at its potential. It's not like it's buffalo or nothing to LA. There are options.

I really hope this rams thing goes through by the end of the year and they are moved. It'll buy us some time. Also, if that happens and ralph passes in 2010, they don't have any inheritance tax which would be a good thing.

Assuming Kelly even has a group, which he may, considering how confident he seems. But no matter how animate he is, or confident he is, the likes of Jerry Jones and friends will not make it easy. They won't like Buffalo or its market - I'm sure of it. They are greedy and their vision involves a league where all teams are required to be supported by luxury boxes for Fortune 500 companies - no one else matters.

[OpIv37]

Have you seen the attendance in Jacksonville and Cincy? Both are better teams than us that have brutal attendance and black outs. It won't happen!

it's not just about attendance. It has to do with the value of the team, the amount they contribute/receive from revenue sharing, stadium leases, and ownership's willingness to sell or move. In pure fan support, we smoke Cincy and Jax, but unfortunately, that won't be the deciding factor- and it may not even be a major factor.

[trapezeus]

jerry jones, dan synders are going to resist for sure...but you'll have other owners who have benefited from profit sharing and aren't going to back down to those big cat types. and you still have some purist old school owners like Rooney and co who will say, "first priority is to keep it in place and if an ownership has arrived, it gets to be heard."

[ddaryl]

I think the players would be pissed off about having to goto London to play football regulalry...they are already PO"d about doing it 1 time a year. and the team that plays in London would have ot fly across the atlantic 8 times which would be brutal for the team....


Unless you meant London Ontario... then never mind

[DrGraves]

london? the logistics of that would never ever ever ever work. someone has just lost their credibility.

[Luisito23]

This is one of the most stupid threads I have ever read.

[BillsWin]

Rams to LA. Jaguars to London.

[YardRat]

London will never get an NFL team in our lifetime...book it. If any non-USA city ever does get one, it will be Toronto or Mexico City.

I don't see the Bills going to LA...Jacksonville or St Louis are more likely candidates. Buffalo is only on the list because of their poor record over the last decade and the age of Wilson, combined with no apparent clear-cut transition in place should Ralph pass on.

[Paranoid006]

Yeah, I see Mexico city or Toronto getting a team before London...well If we live to see it

[SABuffalo786]

Amercian Football will NEVER work outside of this country. Long term it just wouldn't be viable.

[Typ0]

The Bills lease is up in 2012. There is "talk" from state representatives but it's all bunk. They need to stop talking and start offering up a stadium deal to keep the team here. Without that...the team will be cruising on a year to year lease and poised to bail at any time. This is just how RW set it up.


i think if NYS puts up a fight and says, "look, we funded this stadium for you. We have a team playing in here until the end of the lease at the very least!" We are ready to go to court over this. The NFL may say, "why deal with that headache when moving the chargers won't be too much of a hassle, red tape wise?"

There was a report that LA was looking at CAlifornia teams and then the rams, bills, minnesota, jags. I think there may be something to that to avoid a long battle. CA has nothing to lose financially if a team moves from one municipality to another.

Kelly's group can't lowball a stripped down Bills team. The owners won't approve a fire sale like that because it'll hurt their values. I doubt ralph is stripping it down for future sale. He's stripping it down for maximum revenue right now for him and his family.

Kelly seems to be very bold about his comments. Unless he's just strutting bravado, i think he actually has some basic level of working within the NFL, with Ralph's family, with the investor group and with NYS. He may be right. He might have that inside track.

As for Toronto, i think short term,it's important that Toronto give a better effort than it did last year. We need the NFL to be intrigued at its potential. It's not like it's buffalo or nothing to LA. There are options.

I really hope this rams thing goes through by the end of the year and they are moved. It'll buy us some time. Also, if that happens and ralph passes in 2010, they don't have any inheritance tax which would be a good thing.

[Typ0]

london? the logistics of that would never ever ever ever work. someone has just lost their credibility.


Really? Why not? I have no idea why people think like this. They are playing games there now for a reason. Today, it's a global marketplace and trying to penetrate the european market is a natural progression to maintain product growth.

[X-Era]

I'm more convinced, now than ever, that the Bills are gone. Ralph is keeping the overhead super low, so he can sell it for maximum profits.

You may not see the writing on the wall but I do.

Keeping the overhead low helps to sell the team, I agree.

But I dont see that it makes it anymore likely to be sold to someone out of the state. Other factors may, but not the low overhead.

[X-Era]

i think if NYS puts up a fight and says, "look, we funded this stadium for you. We have a team playing in here until the end of the lease at the very least!" We are ready to go to court over this. The NFL may say, "why deal with that headache when moving the chargers won't be too much of a hassle, red tape wise?"

There was a report that LA was looking at CAlifornia teams and then the rams, bills, minnesota, jags. I think there may be something to that to avoid a long battle. CA has nothing to lose financially if a team moves from one municipality to another.

Kelly's group can't lowball a stripped down Bills team. The owners won't approve a fire sale like that because it'll hurt their values. I doubt ralph is stripping it down for future sale. He's stripping it down for maximum revenue right now for him and his family.

Kelly seems to be very bold about his comments. Unless he's just strutting bravado, i think he actually has some basic level of working within the NFL, with Ralph's family, with the investor group and with NYS. He may be right. He might have that inside track.

As for Toronto, i think short term,it's important that Toronto give a better effort than it did last year. We need the NFL to be intrigued at its potential. It's not like it's buffalo or nothing to LA. There are options.

I really hope this rams thing goes through by the end of the year and they are moved. It'll buy us some time. Also, if that happens and ralph passes in 2010, they don't have any inheritance tax which would be a good thing.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if he sold the team to the Kelly group before he died to prevent the team from being bought by outsiders and moved. That way he sells it to whom he wants instead of it being up for anyones bid.

I just hope Jim has enough of a stake to call shots like who the next GM will be, HC firings, etc... I want someone with balls, and someone who knows what it takes to win.

[EricStratton]

The NFLPA has already gone on record against a team located in Europe as well as Mexico City.

Any team with that as a home would be at such a competetive disadvantage it simply wouldn't fit into the NFL's overall plans.


I also don't think a team is based in LA in the next decade.

[Typ0]

Keeping the overhead low helps to sell the team, I agree.

But I dont see that it makes it anymore likely to be sold to someone out of the state. Other factors may, but not the low overhead.


I agree. The only thing low overhead will demonstrate is the low end of being able to operate the franchise. In other words it will show the base line investment required to keep the team from failing financially.

[Typ0]

The NFLs attitude about it is quite different than the NFLPA. The NFLPAs response is posturing for what the NFL is going to give up to the union to relocate overseas. I don't know when it will happen but I would say a team in London is not a silly idea it's inevitable.


The NFLPA has already gone on record against a team located in Europe as well as Mexico City.

Any team with that as a home would be at such a competetive disadvantage it simply wouldn't fit into the NFL's overall plans.


I also don't think a team is based in LA in the next decade.

[trapezeus]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he sold the team to the Kelly group before he died to prevent the team from being bought by outsiders and moved. That way he sells it to whom he wants instead of it being up for anyones bid.

I just hope Jim has enough of a stake to call shots like who the next GM will be, HC firings, etc... I want someone with balls, and someone who knows what it takes to win.


only reason not to do that for wilson is that he'll get taxed a huge amount...and then when he passes, that left over portion will be taxed again (unless he passes in 2010)

Double taxation is never fun. Especially the impact it could have of him getting say $800MM now, taxed to be more like $500MM, and then he dies and his family owes say 50% and they are left with $250MM. If they do it after his death, they just pay the estate tax from their sale of the team and hold probably $400-$500MM.

There is a lot of incentive to not sell now.

but it'd be curious to know if they have the sale figured out from the wilsons and the buying group right now...they just have to wait for NFL approval.

[trapezeus]

typo, i was under the impression that the lease was inplace until 2020-something. perhaps i was wrong. i didn't really know the details, obviously. but i still think NYS has a huge piece in this game. It's suicide as a politician and it'll be a potential drain on taxes to lose the bills. I'm not sure about that last piece but everyone always says the bills are good for NYS, though i don't necessarily buy that.

[Typ0]

I agree they are good for WNY. But are they good enough to pony up all that tax money for a stadium? Will the voting population in NYC tolerate that? I don't know the answers to those questions.


typo, i was under the impression that the lease was inplace until 2020-something. perhaps i was wrong. i didn't really know the details, obviously. but i still think NYS has a huge piece in this game. It's suicide as a politician and it'll be a potential drain on taxes to lose the bills. I'm not sure about that last piece but everyone always says the bills are good for NYS, though i don't necessarily buy that.

[Typ0]

http://buffalo.bizjournals.com/buffalo/stories/2003/03/03/story2.html

[kernowboy]

From someone in England

whilst the NFL may try to put a franchise in London, it will fail very quickly.

American football will always be a minority sport with a few fans turning up once a year simply to attend an event. This is being confused with genuine support for the game.

The sport is not really understood, not taught in schools, has absolutely zero chance of overtaking soccer (football), rugby and even cricket in terms of fans support. Whilst Wembley has 85,000 fans attending, take away some travelling fans, American/Canadian expats and the support from English fans who might be prepared to see 8-9 games per season is about 25,000.

The commissioner is deluding himself if he thinks it can work. It will be as successful as the London Monarchs were

[Buddo]

From someone in England

whilst the NFL may try to put a franchise in London, it will fail very quickly.

American football will always be a minority sport with a few fans turning up once a year simply to attend an event. This is being confused with genuine support for the game.

The sport is not really understood, not taught in schools, has absolutely zero chance of overtaking soccer (football), rugby and even cricket in terms of fans support. Whilst Wembley has 85,000 fans attending, take away some travelling fans, American/Canadian expats and the support from English fans who might be prepared to see 8-9 games per season is about 25,000.

The commissioner is deluding himself if he thinks it can work. It will be as successful as the London Monarchs were


Pretty much on the money. I'm also in the UK, and while I can certainly see that the NFL could get decent support for (maybe) up to 4 games a year, I can't see it happening for a full team based here. You also have to factor in things like stadium use. There are certain things that the stadium pretty much has to be available for e.g. Soccer Internationals, and any potential conflict there will see the NFL come second in serious order.
The support for (maybe) 4 games, would come as much from the desire to see diverse teams, rather than a single franchise, and I think that could be sustainable. It's also the case, that much of what the NFL is attempting to do, will be merchandising related.
While the NFL is huge in the US, 'football' means 'soccer' to the rest of the world. The UK is no exception in that, and it is, has been, and will be, for more years than any of us will ever see, the 'national sport'. The same is pretty much true throughout Europe and, as I think of it, Africa.
In effect, the playing of games in London, is pretty much an exercise in marketing, and also maybe a move to keep the networks who buy the TV coverage in Europe, prepared to pay a premium, by attempting to give the games a slightly higher profile, and raise additional interest in the coverage.

[Typ0]

playing in Europe is all about marketing and developing new markets for existing products when there is no room left for growth in their current markets.