Who was better? [Archive] - BillsZone.com

05-29-2003, 11:35 AM

Not true. He never had the RB that Kelly had, but that's about it. He had some very good OLs and WRs.

Kelly didn't have what Marino had in WRs but he had Thurman which I agree was huge.

Marino, on a team w/ the Hogs like Rypien had when they won the SB would have been awesome. But the way that Miami approached football back then was silly. They tried to win it all w/ a passing game. I'm not quite sure to this day whether they tried to draft some RBs but just failed, or didn't pay too much attention. I know that in the twilight of Marino's career they tried. But during the '80s and early '90s? Not so sure.

They had D at times. So IMO, if they had had a decent RB, then they would have won a SB somewhere along the line.

Pride

05-29-2003, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by BillsNYC
Marino never had the supporting cast that Kelly had...not even close.

I knew this argument would be brought up. I feel that Miami always tried to get a RB that could carry the load, but with Marino and the mark's brothers on your team, they just couldn't get the RB involved enough.

They went through 4-5 RB's that one season, trying to find "the one".

Even Jimmy Johnson couldn't change their gameplan. With Marino on your team, there is no such thing as a running game, and that is why Marino shot himself in the foot.

BillsNYC

05-29-2003, 11:50 AM

what? mark "super" Duper was as good as Reed? c'mon now, he never had the wr's that kelly had..and thomas for us was also a receiver, so you have to take that into account.

Ebenezer

05-29-2003, 11:51 AM

Marino quit on every interception he ever threw...did he EVER make a tackle??

BillsNYC

05-29-2003, 12:38 PM

this is the weakest argument i've ever seen....

THATHURMANATOR

05-29-2003, 12:38 PM

Who cares how many tackles he made? He didn't play defense.

OMG I never thought I would ever defend Dan Marino in my life!!!!

lordofgun

05-29-2003, 12:48 PM

BillsNYC is no longer cool. :tongue:

BillsNYC

05-29-2003, 12:53 PM

i'm rooting for jimbo...but nobody is making a good case...and that scares me!

Originally posted by lordofgun
BillsNYC is no longer cool. :tongue:

lordofgun

05-29-2003, 12:57 PM

Stop living in the past.

TheGhostofJimKelly

05-29-2003, 01:21 PM

I will say this, I would of rather had Kelly as my QB.

LtBillsFan66

05-29-2003, 01:27 PM

Sorry all. I have to be honest and go with Marino.

Captain gameboy

05-29-2003, 01:29 PM

Marino was the best passer, no question.
The problem with him and the Dolphins is the same as the problem with the Saudi's and oil.
If you've got an incredible gift, you get lazy and don't develop anything else. The Saudis have gotten lazy beyond belief, and the Dolphins depended on Marino for years to carry the offensive load.
I think Kelly. overall, had a far bigger impact on his franchise. But... he had a problem a problem taking what defenses gave him. I hang SB 25 on him. We should have run the Giants into the ground. He couldn't make the adjustment. Thomas could have run for 250 yards that game given the Giants game plan. Kelly was myopic. There should have been no time of posession problem and no Bill's D fatigue problem.
Regardless, in my view, QB's have three dimensions: The ability to throw, Marino wins that one, the ability to lead, Kelly wins that one, and the ability to sit back and be a field general, or coach on the field, and that one's a tie in my view.
It's a tie.

BillsNYC

05-29-2003, 01:49 PM

its the offseason...what do you want? :bf1:

Originally posted by lordofgun
Stop living in the past.

BillsOwnAll

05-29-2003, 02:01 PM

kelly

lordofgun

05-29-2003, 02:01 PM

Did Dan Marino lead his team to 4 Super Bowls? NO
Did Dan Marino regularly beat Jim Kelly head-to-head? NO
Was Dan Marino a better leader than Jim Kelly? NO
Did Dan Marino cry like a little girl after he tore his ACL? YES
Did Dan Marino wear gay Isotoner gloves? YES

Kelly wins.

Earthquake Enyart

05-29-2003, 02:14 PM

Originally posted by lordofgun
Did Dan Marino lead his team to 4 Super Bowls? NO
Did Dan Marino regularly beat Jim Kelly head-to-head? NO
Was Dan Marino a better leader than Jim Kelly? NO
Did Dan Marino cry like a little girl after he tore his ACL? YES
Did Dan Marino wear gay Isotoner gloves? YES

Kelly wins.

You can't argue with this logic. :snicker:

If Marino were a Bill, would we have won any of the 4 Super Bowls?

I don't think so.

BillsNYC

05-29-2003, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by lordofgun
Did Dan Marino lead his team to 4 Super Bowls? NO
Did Dan Marino regularly beat Jim Kelly head-to-head? NO
Was Dan Marino a better leader than Jim Kelly? NO
Did Dan Marino cry like a little girl after he tore his ACL? YES
Did Dan Marino wear gay Isotoner gloves? YES

Kelly wins.

Did Dan Marino ever have a solid RB? NO
Did Dan Marino ever have a solid WR core? NO
Did Dan Marino suspiciously get injured at the end of losing games? NO
Did Dan Marino beat his wife? NO
Did Dan Marino appear in the movie "Necessary Roughness"? NO
Did Dan Marino bald in front of the whole country? NO

lordofgun

05-29-2003, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by BillsNYC

Did Dan Marino ever have a solid RB? NO
Did Dan Marino ever have a solid WR core? NO
Did Dan Marino suspiciously get injured at the end of losing games? NO
Did Dan Marino beat his wife? NO
Did Dan Marino appear in the movie "Necessary Roughness"? NO
Did Dan Marino bald in front of the whole country? NO

Dan Marino had solid receivers for the most part. If Dan Marino had a solid RB, his passing numbers wouldn't have been as high. Then there would REALLY be no comparison.

Earthquake Enyart

05-29-2003, 02:21 PM

Plus he got a lot of TD's and yards against prevent defenses. Real football guys don't count that kind of stuff.

lordofgun

05-29-2003, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by BillsNYC
Did Dan Marino bald in front of the whole country? NO

So Dan Marino is a better pretty boy. :snicker:

BillsNYC

05-29-2003, 02:31 PM

i still think Marino acted better in Ace Ventura than Kelly in Necessary Roughness...

lordofgun

05-29-2003, 02:34 PM

Only dorks watch Necessary Roughness. :D

BillsNYC

05-29-2003, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by lordofgun
Only dorks watch Necessary Roughness. :D

you mean with Coach Ed "Straight Arrow" Genaro?

THATHURMANATOR

05-29-2003, 02:41 PM

Mr. Miyagi

05-29-2003, 03:03 PM

Did Dan Marino wear gay Isotoner gloves? YES
So did OJ.

rsmithgi

05-29-2003, 03:39 PM

IMO, Marino was the better QB, no question. Anywhere outside of Buffalo when the debate of the best QBs ever is discussed, Kelly's name is rarely mentioned. It is always Montana, Marino, and Unitas.

The job of the offense is to score points. The QB is most directly involved in scoring when he throws TD passes. Marino is the best at throwing TDs in the history of the game. No one else is even close.

Marino did a few things better than anyone ever:

1. Read defenses
2. Called audibles
3. Quick release

When teams played the Dolphins, their defense was focused exclusively on trying to stop Marino. The same cannot be said for Kelly.

The_Philster

05-29-2003, 03:47 PM

I agree with Wys as well.

Originally posted by Ebenezer
Marino quit on every interception he ever threw...did he EVER make a tackle??

Probably not. When Kelly threw that one against Atlanta in, I believe, 1995, he broke a guy's leg. Anthony Phillips, the CB who intercepted the ball, was never the same after coming back. He was a promising CB before the injury...was out of the league after a couple years later. I think i saw him in the Arena League a couple of years back though.

Captain gameboy

05-29-2003, 05:31 PM

If we are talking about a QB's ability to make tackles we are wasting our time.
Kelly was an outstanding QB and adrenaline to our franchise.
The Dolphins were so enamored with Marino that they never, successfuly, sculpted the rest of the team.
I think the Bills of last year risked the same thing, but they have obviously decided not to make the same mistake.
Though different, I still think they were equal.
Kelly's Bills were better than Marino's Dolphins, but the two players were equal.

Halbert

05-29-2003, 06:49 PM

Dan

hey

05-29-2003, 08:19 PM

would evrybody stop sayin head to head kelly beat marino since marino NEVER played defense they were never on the field at the same time...and marino was better stat's dont lie

lordofgun

05-29-2003, 09:21 PM

Originally posted by hey
and marino was better stat's dont lie

Yes they do. You've never read a wys post. :D

The Natrix

05-29-2003, 09:24 PM

If you take away Marino's best 40 games he was just an average QB.

Dozerdog

05-29-2003, 09:29 PM

If you want gaudy stats and an 8-8 QB- by all means jump on the Marino bandwagon

If you want 5 AFC Championship game appearances in 6 seasons, go with Kelly

THATHURMANATOR

05-30-2003, 01:10 AM

lol

rsmithgi

05-30-2003, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by Dozerdog
If you want gaudy stats and an 8-8 QB- by all means jump on the Marino bandwagon

If you want 5 AFC Championship game appearances in 6 seasons, go with Kelly

Interesting reply.... A question about an opinion on individual players is answered with a statement about team performance.

Last time I checked Football was not a one-one-one game.

IMO, Kelly was an above average but not great QB. He was average at reading defenses. Good arm strength but average accuracy. Great leadership skills. His most impressive asset was his ability to run the no-huddle. When the K-Gun no longer functioned, due to the loss of talent, Kelly was unable to run any other offense effectively. His last year in Buffalo was filled with controversy over the style of offense. He wanted to run the K-Gun but they no longer had the horses.

Kelly and the Bills were blessed with great talent that never got hurt. They went many years with nothing but junk at backup RB and never got burned by it.

THATHURMANATOR

05-30-2003, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by The Natrix
If you take away Marino's best 40 games he was just an average QB.

LOL!!!

THATHURMANATOR

05-30-2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by rsmithgi

Interesting reply.... A question about an opinion on individual players is answered with a statement about team performance.

Last time I checked Football was not a one-one-one game.

IMO, Kelly was an above average but not great QB. He was average at reading defenses. Good arm strength but average accuracy. Great leadership skills. His most impressive asset was his ability to run the no-huddle. When the K-Gun no longer functioned, due to the loss of talent, Kelly was unable to run any other offense effectively. His last year in Buffalo was filled with controversy over the style of offense. He wanted to run the K-Gun but they no longer had the horses.

Kelly and the Bills were blessed with great talent that never got hurt. They went many years with nothing but junk at backup RB and never got burned by it.

Kelly was definitly a GREAT QB!! There is no doubt about that Marino was better. Also Kennth Davis was a pretty decent backup RB if you ask me!

05-30-2003, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by gameboy
If we are talking about a QB's ability to make tackles we are wasting our time.
Kelly was an outstanding QB and adrenaline to our franchise.
The Dolphins were so enamored with Marino that they never, successfuly, sculpted the rest of the team.
I think the Bills of last year risked the same thing, but they have obviously decided not to make the same mistake.
Though different, I still think they were equal.
Kelly's Bills were better than Marino's Dolphins, but the two players were equal.

IDK about "not making the same mistake" gb. As I see it, we're making the exact same mistake only w/ a passer who's only half of what Marino was!

Originally posted by The Natrix
If you take away Marino's best 40 games he was just an average QB.

Actually Natrix, if you take away Dan's best 40, you'd still have a heck of a QB on your hands! Passing wise of course. Dan couldn't get out of his own way if his life depended upon it. As well, Kelly didn't have the longetivity in his career. The USFL and him taking hits while on the move forced him to take abuse that Dan was never subjected too shortened Kelly's career by a substantial margin over Dan's.

Kelly only played 11 NFL seasons to Dan's 17. Extrapolated out, Kelly's numbers over 17 seasons would be:

Kelly: 54,813/366/270/60.1%/7.4 YPA
Marino: 61,361/420/252/59.4%/7.3 YPA

05-30-2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Kelly only played 11 NFL seasons to Dan's 17. Extrapolated out, Kelly's numbers over 17 seasons would be:

Kelly: 54,813/366/270/60.1%/7.4 YPA
Marino: 61,361/420/252/59.4%/7.3 YPA

And just for kicks, Drews 17 game would be:

57,827/323/260/56.9%/6.6 YPA

Halbert

05-30-2003, 05:20 PM

Dan. Easy.

The_Philster

06-01-2003, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Halbert
Dan. Easy.

Blasphemer!!!

BillsNYC

06-01-2003, 06:56 PM

Did we decide yet?

The_Philster

06-01-2003, 07:01 PM

Yeah....Kelly!!!

Halbert

06-01-2003, 09:20 PM

Come on. I loved Kelly but identical teams around each and Dan would win more often than not.

Kelly has the leadership edge, no question. That was a huge part of his success. But Dan was the passer extrodinaire who rarely threw picks and didn't get sacked. His biggest mistake was making the team at least decent for so long he couldn't get top draft picks to stock the team around him. And the Dolphins pathetic attempt to develop a running game for him didn't help at all.

On the same team for an important game I'd take Marino 5.5 times out of 10 compared to Kelly.