Is bringing in one of the big names the answer?

[Dr. Lecter]

Do the Bills really need to bring in Dungy, Shanahan, Cowher, Holmgran, Billick or Gruden? Is that really the answer to the Bills woes? Will any of those names bring a Super Bowl to this team?

This stat has been thrown out before but is worth repeating - no coach has ever won a Super Bowl with two different teams.

I am not advocating "going cheap". But is the biggest name the best answer or are they better off finding the next great coach instead of trying to recycle a guy that was great elsewhere?

[TacklingDummy]

Do the Bills really need to bring in Dungy, Shanahan, Cowher, Holmgran, Billick or Gruden? Is that really the answer to the Bills woes? Will any of those names bring a Super Bowl to this team?


Not unless they bring in some talented players to go along with them.

None of those coaches would have won here the past 6 years with the talent that's on the roster.

[dannyek71]

A good HC is only 1/2 the answer. We also need a good GM to bring in good players.

[TedMock]

Great point and somebody else mentioned the success of assistant coaches recently in another thread. Harbaugh, Smith, Sparano, Tomlin, Wisenhut, etc. I would certainly love a a big time coach, but more important is a football guy. If it's Russ Grimm, or Ron Rivera, or another assistant, some fans will have their panties in a bunch, but that's just stupid too. If we get a football guy to come in and decide that Grimm, for example, is the man, then I am completely on board. Having said that - we absolutely need for a football guy to come in first, be it a new GM, a new coach, president of football ops, whatever.

[X-Era]

Do the Bills really need to bring in Dungy, Shanahan, Cowher, Holmgran, Billick or Gruden? Is that really the answer to the Bills woes? Will any of those names bring a Super Bowl to this team?

This stat has been thrown out before but is worth repeating - no coach has ever won a Super Bowl with two different teams.

I am not advocating "going cheap". But is the biggest name the best answer or are they better off finding the next great coach instead of trying to recycle a guy that was great elsewhere?

On a team that has no clue how to win the Sb from the owner all the way down?

Yes, I think real experience with that is huge.

We have seen unproven's come through here time and time again. And I want different. The only thing that's truly different is to add a HC who has been to the SB as a HC and won.

At least then, one of the reasons that a team could fail and not reach the SB, experience getting there, will be covered.

The last time this team had a HC that got us to the SB, we went an unprecedented 4 total times... coincidence? Im not so sure.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I disagree Dummy... I think the Bills have had adequate talent the past 6 years... I don't think our coaches have had the ability to get the most out of the talent they had to work with.

For example... Having our #11 overall pick ride the pine. GET INNOVATIVE... GET THE KID ON THE FIELD!!!

[TacklingDummy]

The last time this team had a HC that got us to the SB, we went an unprecedented 4 total times... coincidence? Im not so sure.
Big difference. There is no Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Bruce Smith, C. Bennett, Shane Conlan, Will Wolford, Kent Hull, House Ballard, etc... on this current team.

[TacklingDummy]

I disagree Dummy... I think the Bills have had adequate talent the past 6 years... I don't think our coaches have had the ability to get the most out of the talent they had to work with.


QB has been a issue since Kelly retired.

[Historian]

Super Bowl?

I'd be happy with a playoff spot, lol.

[DraftBoy]

No I dont think its the answer, I think its more a PR move.

This team needs to hire smart, motivated, passionate people not just experienced vets. I liken it to how the Falcons re-did their staff. They went out and got one of the top heralded younger execs in the game in Thomas Dimitroff and he hired a fiery coach in Mike Smith. Now look at them.

Id prefer we go that route over a seasoned veteran.

[Forward_Lateral]

Draftboy, I somewhat agree. The problem is, Buffalo has tried that time and time again, and always ends up picking the wrong guys. Gregg was obviously a bad choice, and when they chose Mularkey, they passed on several other co-ordinators who have done very well since then.

[DraftBoy]

Draftboy, I somewhat agree. The problem is, Buffalo has tried that time and time again, and always ends up picking the wrong guys. Gregg was obviously a bad choice, and when they chose Mularkey, they passed on several other co-ordinators who have done very well since then.

You know how many other teams have failed and yet try try again?

We are not alone in making mistakes at GM and HC. But we shouldn't stop trying imo either.

[ddaryl]

Yes Yes and Defintiely Yes


if for no other reason but to satisfy my need to know the coach we have has won before

[RockStar36]

Yes they need to for the sanity of the fan base. Even if they aren't going to be a repeat Super Bowl champion, this team needs to make the playoffs and needs to be relevant in a way other than signing T.O.

But it isn't the fix all. They pretty much need to rip apart the entire front office, start over, and do it right this time. Ralph needs to relax, hand control over to a smart football person, and let them get the job done.

There is no reason, with the right people in place, that we couldn't be talking about the playoffs next season. There is enough talent on this team to get that ball rolling.

[mybills]

They need to stop hiring defense minded coaches. Let the defense coordinator do their job, and get someone who will drive the offense down the field and score.

[tampabay25690]

Do the Bills really need to bring in Dungy, Shanahan, Cowher, Holmgran, Billick or Gruden? Is that really the answer to the Bills woes? Will any of those names bring a Super Bowl to this team?

This stat has been thrown out before but is worth repeating - no coach has ever won a Super Bowl with two different teams.

I am not advocating "going cheap". But is the biggest name the best answer or are they better off finding the next great coach instead of trying to recycle a guy that was great elsewhere?

YES a big name will bring Free agents that wil want to play in Buffalo then.....
This franchise and players need a new face...
To be honest these players need to play like its there last game as well....

[tampabay25690]

My #1 choice is Shannahan...

[don137]

Yes they need to for the sanity of the fan base. Even if they aren't going to be a repeat Super Bowl champion, this team needs to make the playoffs and needs to be relevant in a way other than signing T.O.

But it isn't the fix all. They pretty much need to rip apart the entire front office, start over, and do it right this time. Ralph needs to relax, hand control over to a smart football person, and let them get the job done.

There is no reason, with the right people in place, that we couldn't be talking about the playoffs next season. There is enough talent on this team to get that ball rolling.


Couldn't of said it better myself...

I want a proven winner...I want small steps. Let's iimprove the front office, coaching staff and team. Then make it competitive enough for the playoffs. After that then worry about going deep into the playoffs.

[djjimkelly]

Do the Bills really need to bring in Dungy, Shanahan, Cowher, Holmgran, Billick or Gruden? Is that really the answer to the Bills woes? Will any of those names bring a Super Bowl to this team?

This stat has been thrown out before but is worth repeating - no coach has ever won a Super Bowl with two different teams.

I am not advocating "going cheap". But is the biggest name the best answer or are they better off finding the next great coach instead of trying to recycle a guy that was great elsewhere?


i dont know about superbowl any time soon from any of these coaches

however i do know this will be an entertaining and playoff bound team with any of these coaches in 1-3 years unlike the joke coaches we have had since levy left

[trapezeus]

Keep in mind that the players actually liked Jauron. They wanted him to keep his job. Therefore, you have to assume they were trying like hell to keep it for him and they lost.

Talent is most definitely an issue as well. The next step is to get a guy who can find talent at the GM level and then listen to his hiring decisions. But Ralph has to be able to discern who is a GM/football man, and who is just another TD egomaniac that wants no conflict from his coaches. This is the hardest part of it.

[RockStar36]

Keep in mind that the players actually liked Jauron. They wanted him to keep his job. Therefore, you have to assume they were trying like hell to keep it for him and they lost.

Talent is most definitely an issue as well. The next step is to get a guy who can find talent at the GM level and then listen to his hiring decisions. But Ralph has to be able to discern who is a GM/football man, and who is just another TD egomaniac that wants no conflict from his coaches. This is the hardest part of it.

I don't know how many players really liked him. People like Edwards were on record as liking him but that is also because he knows any other coach wouldn't have handed him the starting job.

The comments by Schobel after Sunday make me think that many veterans are getting sick of this crap.

[tampabay25690]

Keep in mind that the players actually liked Jauron. They wanted him to keep his job. Therefore, you have to assume they were trying like hell to keep it for him and they lost.

Talent is most definitely an issue as well. The next step is to get a guy who can find talent at the GM level and then listen to his hiring decisions. But Ralph has to be able to discern who is a GM/football man, and who is just another TD egomaniac that wants no conflict from his coaches. This is the hardest part of it.

Players like him and especially veterans because he has been known as the coach that is laid back....He runs a very SOFT training camp and all us fans know that.....
Thats why I don't think DUNGY is the coach that would do well here either he is a laid back coach as well.....This team need s a guy that will bust there ASS......

Its like the teacher that you had in high school that let you get away with anything.....

[BlackMetalNinja]

I agree with pretty much everything Rockstar said. We need a legit coach to steady the ship and especially the fanbase. We more pressingly need a front office that has some semblance of a clue on how to build a contending team. We have some nice key pieces that could get us towards the playoffs if utilized and driven properly, and we clearly need some more of those pieces to actually get the job done. I know it sounds preposterous, but a legit, experienced head coach, an average-above average GM, and a legit starting QB can make everything else about a team look much better than thought possible.

[Meathead]

Is bringing in one of the big names the answer?
yes

which is why i hope they hire Schottencowholmgrudbilliheimer

[Mahdi]

Do the Bills really need to bring in Dungy, Shanahan, Cowher, Holmgran, Billick or Gruden? Is that really the answer to the Bills woes? Will any of those names bring a Super Bowl to this team?

This stat has been thrown out before but is worth repeating - no coach has ever won a Super Bowl with two different teams.

I am not advocating "going cheap". But is the biggest name the best answer or are they better off finding the next great coach instead of trying to recycle a guy that was great elsewhere?
The only reason I want a big name guy is so he can take the FOOTBALL POWER away from Ralph.

I would be totally fine with a young up and coming Coordinator if we had a different owner.

[trapezeus]

i get the sense that Jauron's leadership wasn't hitting all 53 people the same. but stroud and moorman were people who spoke up for him.

I think my point is that this team needs new players. its not like this was a team that universally gave up on the coach and that was the result of the poor play. this is a very bad team, and coaching alone isn't going to do it. i'd be very surprised if the bills could be a miami/falcons/ravens turnaround. there simply isn't enough talent. and where there is, they can't stay healthy for more than a few games.

[Mahdi]

i get the sense that Jauron's leadership wasn't hitting all 53 people the same. but stroud and moorman were people who spoke up for him.

I think my point is that this team needs new players. its not like this was a team that universally gave up on the coach and that was the result of the poor play. this is a very bad team, and coaching alone isn't going to do it. i'd be very surprised if the bills could be a miami/falcons/ravens turnaround. there simply isn't enough talent. and where there is, they can't stay healthy for more than a few games.
Who did the Falcons and Dolphins have before their turnaround that made them more talented than we are now?

We have even more talent than they had. We also have one of the best secondaries in the NFL.

McKelvin, McGee, Whitner, Byrd... plus Florence, Corner and Lankster in nickel and dime.

[Philagape]

Why bring up that no coach has won a SB with different teams?
When you're looking to bring in a coach or player, all you can do is look for the best available credentials. Say you're looking to sign a veteran tackle ... you can't say "I only want one that's been to at least three Pro Bowls!" if there are none.
Is the lack of multiple-team championships because there's some unseen force preventing that, or has it just not worked out? If it's the latter, then it's irrelevant. I don't care about numbers, I want reasons it doesn't work.
There have been several coaches who have been to the SB with more than one team, including Holmgren. That tells me it's possible.
Say Marv Levy was available to coach right after he left the Bills ... should a team have said, "He's not good enough, he never won it"?

[Saratoga Slim]

Great point and somebody else mentioned the success of assistant coaches recently in another thread. Harbaugh, Smith, Sparano, Tomlin, Wisenhut, etc. I would certainly love a a big time coach, but more important is a football guy. If it's Russ Grimm, or Ron Rivera, or another assistant, some fans will have their panties in a bunch, but that's just stupid too. If we get a football guy to come in and decide that Grimm, for example, is the man, then I am completely on board. Having said that - we absolutely need for a football guy to come in first, be it a new GM, a new coach, president of football ops, whatever.

Good post. I more or less agree. My thoughts:

a) if the front office stays more or less the same, then I want a big name coach.

b) if we bring in someone that inspires confidence as a GM to run the football ops, then I'm not necessarily averse to going the coordinator route for the next HC, because at least we'll feel comfortable that the choice has been thoroughly vetted by a trustworthy 'football guy' GM. As mentioned above, this route has worked pretty well for the Cards, Falcons, Steelers, Dolphins & Ravens.

[jamze132]

Keep in mind that the players actually liked Jauron. They wanted him to keep his job. Therefore, you have to assume they were trying like hell to keep it for him and they lost.

Talent is most definitely an issue as well. The next step is to get a guy who can find talent at the GM level and then listen to his hiring decisions. But Ralph has to be able to discern who is a GM/football man, and who is just another TD egomaniac that wants no conflict from his coaches. This is the hardest part of it.
The players loved Club Jauron. They would play hard for him until they actually had to make a play, then they backed off.

[jamze132]

A coach like Cowher could completely turn around this franchise in a couple of drafts. If he was given autonomy to bring in who he wants, good things could happen in Buffalo.

But it won't matter who the HC is if his hands are tied when it comes to personnel decisions. OBD needs an extreme home makeover.

[DraftBoy]

Yes they need to for the sanity of the fan base. Even if they aren't going to be a repeat Super Bowl champion, this team needs to make the playoffs and needs to be relevant in a way other than signing T.O.

But it isn't the fix all. They pretty much need to rip apart the entire front office, start over, and do it right this time. Ralph needs to relax, hand control over to a smart football person, and let them get the job done.

There is no reason, with the right people in place, that we couldn't be talking about the playoffs next season. There is enough talent on this team to get that ball rolling.


Any coach is going to right the sanity of the fan base as long as they win. A big name doesnt do anything to ensure that any more than any other qualified coach would.

[MassEffect218435]

Nope, coaching is only 25% of the fight. Buffalo is lacking when it comes to talent and players, the other 75% and that's not something that you build over night. With the cap going away for at least next year Buffalo is going to be fighting Dallas, Washington, Oakland, NE, etc... for players and they likely won't be willing to outbid any of the previous mentioned teams. Thus, it comes down to drafting; one draft isn't going to fix all of the problems, it's going to take a few years. Hell, it takes that long just to groom a QB.

I still maintain that Buffalo doesn't need a "big name HC." Buffalo needs a younger guy who has the energy to turn the team around and a guy who will hold the team accountable for every single thing that happens. There are a ton of coordinators out there right now that are more than deserving of a shot that would fit Buffalo well. There are even more college coaches that would fit the bill.

[TacklingDummy]

Nope, coaching is only 25% of the fight. Buffalo is lacking when it comes to talent and players, the other 75% and that's not something that you build over night. With the cap going away for at least next year Buffalo is going to be fighting Dallas, Washington, Oakland, NE, etc... for players and they likely won't be willing to outbid any of the previous mentioned teams. Thus, it comes down to drafting; one draft isn't going to fix all of the problems, it's going to take a few years. Hell, it takes that long just to groom a QB.

I still maintain that Buffalo doesn't need a "big name HC." Buffalo needs a younger guy who has the energy to turn the team around and a guy who will hold the team accountable for every single thing that happens. There are a ton of coordinators out there right now that are more than deserving of a shot that would fit Buffalo well. There are even more college coaches that would fit the bill.

Winning starts and ends with talented players. A new Head coach is nice but I'd rather have seen a new GM.

[Typ0]

Any coach is going to right the sanity of the fan base as long as they win. A big name doesnt do anything to ensure that any more than any other qualified coach would.


Really? Aren't the "big name" coaches the ones with the proven success? If you are hiring for a job do you think you have a better chance of hitting paydirt with someone whose got proven experience and success or someone with zero experience?

[RockStar36]

Any coach is going to right the sanity of the fan base as long as they win. A big name doesnt do anything to ensure that any more than any other qualified coach would.

I totally disagree.

If they hire Jim Haslett, how does that right the sanity of the fan base?

The guy is in the UFL for crying out loud and already got beat out by Jauron years ago.

All it would be doing is temporarily making us happy by canning Jauron, but preparing us for at least three more years of the same junk.

[MassEffect218435]

Really? Aren't the "big name" coaches the ones with the proven success? If you are hiring for a job do you think you have a better chance of hitting paydirt with someone whose got proven experience and success or someone with zero experience?There's a reason why some of the "proven" "big name" HC's are not coaching right now. Holmgren, Gruden, Shanahan, Billick were all canned due to poor performance. Just because you have won a Super Bowl at some point in your career doesn't make you a superior HC. Most of those guys won their SB's with the best talent the NFL had to offer. As long as the Bills remain a mediocre team as far as talent is concerned you could bring in Lombardi, Landry, Madden, name your coach, and it won't mean a damn thing.

[DraftBoy]

I totally disagree.

If they hire Jim Haslett, how does that right the sanity of the fan base?

The guy is in the UFL for crying out loud and already got beat out by Jauron years ago.

All it would be doing is temporarily making us happy by canning Jauron, but preparing us for at least three more years of the same junk.


Did you forget the part where I said if they win.

Do you thin us hiring Cowher and him going 6-10 next year is going to keep that warm fuzzy feeling inside or something?

Any coach that wins will get the fan base behind them. It could be you or I, but if we produce W's on Sundays it won't matter what our qualifications are.

[chernobylwraiths]

Do the Bills really need to bring in Dungy, Shanahan, Cowher, Holmgran, Billick or Gruden? Is that really the answer to the Bills woes? Will any of those names bring a Super Bowl to this team?

This stat has been thrown out before but is worth repeating - no coach has ever won a Super Bowl with two different teams.

I am not advocating "going cheap". But is the biggest name the best answer or are they better off finding the next great coach instead of trying to recycle a guy that was great elsewhere?

Yes. Yes. Hopefully

There is a first time for everything.

Absolutely!

[DraftBoy]

Really? Aren't the "big name" coaches the ones with the proven success? If you are hiring for a job do you think you have a better chance of hitting paydirt with someone whose got proven experience and success or someone with zero experience?

Proven Success yes, but that doesnt automatically mean future success. I do hire for a job, and I usually go with the less experienced people for two key reasons. Passion/Fire to prove themselves, and Loyalty.

[RockStar36]

Did you forget the part where I said if they win.

Do you thin us hiring Cowher and him going 6-10 next year is going to keep that warm fuzzy feeling inside or something?

Any coach that wins will get the fan base behind them. It could be you or I, but if we produce W's on Sundays it won't matter what our qualifications are.

Ok, with that logic, I want the guy who has the best chances of getting those wins. Cowher has a better chance to some coordinator.

As for college coaches, no friggin way. I don't want the next Bobby Petrino, Nick Saban, or Steve Spurrier. No thanks.

[DraftBoy]

Ok, with that logic, I want the guy who has the best chances of getting those wins. Cowher has a better chance to some coordinator.

As for college coaches, no friggin way. I don't want the next Bobby Petrino, Nick Saban, or Steve Spurrier. No thanks.


You say that without being able to even prove it. You don't know what Cowher could or would do with this roster or any other coach for that matter. They could be better or be worse but to assume that one coach will automatically do better just because he has experience doesn't really make a lot of sense. Each coaching situation is unique.

Look at Belicheck for a great example wasn't great in Cleveland but is a legacy coach in New England. Just because you fail or are successful one place does not mean you are more likely to continue that success or failure at your next place.

[RockStar36]

You say that without being able to even prove it. You don't know what Cowher could or would do with this roster or any other coach for that matter. They could be better or be worse but to assume that one coach will automatically do better just because he has experience doesn't really make a lot of sense. Each coaching situation is unique.

Look at Belicheck for a great example wasn't great in Cleveland but is a legacy coach in New England. Just because you fail or are successful one place does not mean you are more likely to continue that success or failure at your next place.

Listen, I'll try this one more time. The Bills have gone through Wade Phillips (previous loser), Gregg Williams (first time coordinator), Mike Mularkey (first time coordinator), and Dick Jauron (previous loser). If you can't see why I have a desire for a previous winner, then I don't know what to tell you.

For every Mike Smith and Mke Tomlin, there are even more GW and MM's.

I'm going with the better odds.

[DraftBoy]

Listen, I'll try this one more time. The Bills have gone through Wade Phillips (previous loser), Gregg Williams (first time coordinator), Mike Mularkey (first time coordinator), and Dick Jauron (previous loser). If you can't see why I have a desire for a previous winner, then I don't know what to tell you.

For every Mike Smith and Mke Tomlin, there are even more GW and MM's.

I'm going with the better odds.


What better odds?

EVERY PROVEN COACH WAS UNPROVEN AT SOME POINT. You act like guys just fall from trees and are automatically successful. Every coach that has ever been hired.

And your sample size is way too small.

Dick Jauron was also a previous winner, he had a 13 win season, discount all you want but he does have a proven winning season.

[RockStar36]

What better odds?

EVERY PROVEN COACH WAS UNPROVEN AT SOME POINT. You act like guys just fall from trees and are automatically successful. Every coach that has ever been hired.

And your sample size is way too small.

Dick Jauron was also a previous winner, he had a 13 win season, discount all you want but he does have a proven winning season.

One winning season in how many? I mean, come on man.

I guess I can't expect you to fully understand since you don't spend your money on the team and easily hop ship to the local team where you're at.

You don't care nearly as much as most others.

[DraftBoy]

One winning season in how many? I mean, come on man.

I guess I can't expect you to fully understand since you don't spend your money on the team and easily hop ship to the local team where you're at.

You don't care nearly as much as most others.

Oh yea the you're not as big a fan as I am accusation! Wow way to go!

Don't be a jackass just because you don't agree with my opinion. You don't know how much I care for this team or how much I spend, and I dont frankly give a **** about comparing it anybody else either. This isn't a popularity contest, or trying to see who sacrifices more. Frankly trying to measure one's fanhood is a stupid, juvenile thing to even think of.

You really don't need to be that kind of a fan, but if that's the way you want to be, that's on you.

[RockStar36]

Oh yea the you're not as big a fan as I am accusation! Wow way to go!

Don't be a jackass just because you don't agree with my opinion. You don't know how much I care for this team or how much I spend, and I dont frankly give a **** about comparing it anybody else either. This isn't a popularity contest, or trying to see who sacrifices more. Frankly trying to measure one's fanhood is a stupid, juvenile thing to even think of.

You really don't need to be that kind of a fan, but if that's the way you want to be, that's on you.

I never said myself. I said others. As in the season ticket holders.

They are the people throwing thousands and thousands of dollars a year at the Bills and they return the favor by skimping everywhere besides marketing.

Those days have to be over.

The reason the Dolphins became good with a first time coach was the guy running the ship.

Again, if someone like Parcells were running the FO, I would be all for it.

But right now, after a decade of no playoffs, I feel that the best chances are a coach who has proven he can win a SB. It's that simple.

Another coordinator is a coin flip and I don't want to take that chance.

[malo]

We need someone who knows what it takes to win. So yes.

[BillsWin]

Im all for a good coordinator with league connections. Id love a big name, but if a coordinator comes in and does well, I wont be upset.

[RockStar36]

Im all for a good coordinator with league connections. Id love a big name, but if a coordinator comes in and does well, I wont be upset.

What happens in three more years when that coordinator fizzles out too?

[MassEffect218435]

What happens in three more years when that coordinator fizzles out too?What happens in three years when a "big name" coach is losing because he still doesn't have the quality talent to coach with?

[RockStar36]

What happens in three years when a "big name" coach is losing because he still doesn't have the quality talent to coach with?

I can at least say I was satisfied as a fan for a little while knowing that Ralph hired a big name and gave the fans what they wanted, spent some money, and took a real chance at building a winner.

[MassEffect218435]

I can at least say I was satisfied as a fan for a little while knowing that Ralph hired a big name and gave the fans what they wanted, spent some money, and took a real chance at building a winner.Nothing changes until the talent put on the field changes; no matter who's coaching the squad.

[Nighthawk]

All I can say is that we know what it's like to hire a cheap, green, coordinator...been there, done that. I want to see how it would work out if we actually spend money on a proven winner who can actually attract talent just because he is who he is.

[BertSquirtgum]

proven coach please. thank you.

[Mr. Pink]

A big name would sell tickets.

[PromoTheRobot]

I think it's really dangerous to get hung up on big names. There is no guarantee...NONE...that the Bills will win with them. If you really look at their resumes, they all have flaws, blemishes and failures along with (usually) just one ring. Rob Ray is on WGR right now talking about how the Sabres brought in John Muckler who had won 4 Stanley Cups in Edmonton. How did that work out for the Sabres?

When you consider how many formerly unknown coordinators are kicking a** in the NFL right now makes me think that hiring names will backfire on you. You want guys who are motivated to prove something, not guys who are coasting to retirement.

PTR

[PromoTheRobot]

A big name would sell tickets.
Winning sells MORE tickets.

PTR