Ralph's is manipulating everyone again.

[HHURRICANE]

He is "willing" to bring in a GM and a high profile coach? "Willing" and "doing" are two different things. He basically admitted that Shanahan hadn't been contacted yet.

Unless he brings in Cowher, Shottenheimer, Shanahan or someone like Parcells that' isn't on a list yet there is no reason to kepp supporting this garbage. If he hadn't got lucky with Polian this team probably wouldn't even be in Buffalo still. Ralph is our own worst enemy.

As Sullivan pointed out we are more likely looking at a Mueller/Haslett joke than a serious run at getting this done at the highest level.

Prove me wrong Ralph because you haven't so far.

[HHURRICANE]

He is "willing" to bring in a GM and a high profile coach? "Willing" and "doing" are two different things. He basically admitted that Shanahan hadn't been contacted yet.

Unless he brings in Cowher, Shottenheimer, Shanahan or someone like Parcells that' isn't on a list yet there is no reason to kepp supporting this garbage. If he hadn't got lucky with Polian this team probably wouldn't even be in Buffalo still. Ralph is our own worst enemy.

As Sullivan pointed out we are more likely looking at a Mueller/Haslett joke than a serious run at getting this done at the highest level.

Prove me wrong Ralph because you haven't so far.

PS. Those who want to get all negative on me only have to remember that I have history on my side.

[Dr. Lecter]

Is it OK if I merge this with your other identical thread (s)?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Fair enough. Until a top flight Coach or GM is hired we can't assume it will happen.

[Pinkerton Security]

I thought Ralph's was only in Southern Cali? :whatthe:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/96/Ralphs.svg/250px-Ralphs.svg.png

[HHURRICANE]

Fair enough. Until a top flight Coach or GM is hired we can't assume it will happen.

Believe me when I say that I would proudly eat crow to be wrong.

I don't come on this site to be negative or right. I'm a fan like everyone else. However, I can't sit back and watch people take the bait over and over again.

Ralph, needs to prove me wrong here and I pray that he does.

[bigbub2352]

I have to agree with HH on this 1 as much as i want to be all in, i have to sit back and wait cause he did all this before said all this before
we got TOM D and Gred Williams/ Mike Mularkey then we got LEVY and Skeletor
RW needs to say here is a blank check fix my team Russ sell tickets and shut ur mouth
Only way this turns around
in his lifetime anyway!

[Dr. Lecter]

TD was, at the time, a signing of a big name guy.

Obviously he did not work out. But he was the biggest name GM available at the time.

[Pinkerton Security]

TD was, at the time, a signing of a big name guy.

Obviously he did not work out. But he was the biggest name GM available at the time.

yeah and lots of teams would love to have gregg williams now, and mularkey is a hot coordinator name out there as well, perhaps they either A) werent cut our for being HC's or B) sucked with the personnel in Bflo

[bigbub2352]

TD was, at the time, a signing of a big name guy.

Obviously he did not work out. But he was the biggest name GM available at the time.
i agree with u
just saying he said all this before and it didnt work out

[Dr. Lecter]

i agree with u
just saying he said all this before and it didnt work out

I was not disputing your point.

It was the other guy who says he never brings high profile guys.

He is wrong. Again.

[HHURRICANE]

I was not disputing your point.

It was the other guy who says he never brings high profile guys.

He is wrong. Again.


You know that I was referring to the high profile coach. With that said who did Tom Donohoe bring in? Guys that wouldn't challenge him. Kind of like Ralph.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I hate to say it but HH is right..... Ralphs never done it right before... lucked out with polian, but since hes done nothing to warrent any beliefe that this time will be any different.

noone wants to believe it, but HH has it correct.

[SABURZFAN]

Believe me when I say that I would proudly eat crow to be wrong.

I don't come on this site to be negative or right. I'm a fan like everyone else. However, I can't sit back and watch people take the bait over and over again.

Ralph, needs to prove me wrong here and I pray that he does.


don't hold your breath.

[Italian Stallion]

Seriously...we get it already. You hate the team and everything they do. And you create identical threads and arrange the words differently to make them seem new. Cool. How bout lets cut this charade out.

Bottom line is were all pissed this team sucks. We all are in the "lets believe it when we see it" mindset. But jesus man, I really have never seen ANYONE in the history of the world beat dead horses more than you bro.

Just because your fingers type those familiar words in the same familiar threads, countless times a day, dosen't make you any more of a fan, or more pissed off or dissapointed than any of us are.

In the words of Ron Burgandy "Why dont you just stop talking for awhile...maybe sit the next couple plays out?"

[SABURZFAN]

Seriously...we get it already. You hate the team and everything they do. And you create identical threads and arrange the words differently to make them seem new. Cool. How bout lets cut this charade out.

Bottom line is were all pissed this team sucks. We all are in the "lets believe it when we see it" mindset. But jesus man, I really have never seen ANYONE in the history of the world beat dead horses more than you bro.

Just because your fingers type those familiar words in the same familiar threads, countless times a day, dosen't make you any more of a fan, or more pissed off or dissapointed than any of us are.

In the words of Ron Burgandy "Why dont you just stop talking for awhile...maybe sit the next couple plays out?"


i disagree. keep speaking the truth, HHURRICANE. :chug:

[DraftBoy]

You know that I was referring to the high profile coach. With that said who did Tom Donohoe bring in? Guys that wouldn't challenge him. Kind of like Ralph.


But we did bring in high profile coaches, Williams and Mularkey were two of the hottest and most coveted coordinators in the league. Its not like we scarped the bottom of the barrell for them.

We snatched up the guys who were considered to be among the top available coaches.

[T-Long]

dude, have you ever written anything but the same old **** every single day. I can't even open these threads anymore cuz they are the same **** different day.

[Typ0]

But we did bring in high profile coaches, Williams and Mularkey were two of the hottest and most coveted coordinators in the league. Its not like we scarped the bottom of the barrell for them.

We snatched up the guys who were considered to be among the top available coaches.


And this is why we have to consider RW to be at the root of these problems. Those guys who failed were hired by him in some shape way or form. They might have looked good on paper but they didn't work just like a lot of our draft picks. This organization can't hire people and this is where we stand. Call it what you like we are poor talent evaluators and aren't seeing anything that's going to change that.

[Typ0]

dude, have you ever written anything but the same old **** every single day. I can't even open these threads anymore cuz they are the same **** different day.


Then why do you read them? You must be one of those people who needs something to ***** about.

[DraftBoy]

And this is why we have to consider RW to be at the root of these problems. Those guys who failed were hired by him in some shape way or form. They might have looked good on paper but they didn't work just like a lot of our draft picks. This organization can't hire people and this is where we stand. Call it what you like we are poor talent evaluators and aren't seeing anything that's going to change that.


Im not arguing they failed and that falls on Wilson's feet, but to say we didnt bring in top name GM's or HC's is just a plain bold faced lie.

But its Ralph that is manipulating the facts...

[HHURRICANE]

Seriously...we get it already. You love the team and hate everything they do.

Fixed it for you.

[SABURZFAN]

Im not arguing they failed and that falls on Wilson's feet, but to say we didnt bring in top name GM's or HC's is just a plain bold faced lie.

But its Ralph that is manipulating the facts...


1 top named GM in how many years? the last top named coach was who? Chuck Knox?

[HHURRICANE]

Im not arguing they failed and that falls on Wilson's feet, but to say we didnt bring in top name GM's or HC's is just a plain bold faced lie.

But its Ralph that is manipulating the facts...


They did not bring in top coaches. That is wrong.

A top coach is someone who has won at the HC level. Someone who has done it before. Name the guy.

[DraftBoy]

1 top named GM in how many years?

Butler was here till 2002, then we hired TD till 06 and if memory serves me right we brought in Levy and then Brandon and Co.

So we've made two hires and both are arguably really big names.

[T-Long]

Then why do you read them? You must be one of those people who needs something to ***** about.
Umm so you are gonna say I AM the one *****ing, when every single thread of his is *****ing about absolutely everything? You got us wrong there buddy. Must have been a typo on your part. It's cool.

[DraftBoy]

They did not bring in top coaches. That is wrong.

A top coach is someone who has won at the HC level. Someone who has done it before. Name the guy.


Really easy to defend your point when you can change the definition.

We brought in the hottest names out there to be our HC, whether you like it or not doesnt matter.

You are completely misleading and manipulating the facts.

[T-Long]

We've had top name here:

Bill Polian
A.J. Smith
John Butler
Tom Donahoe
Marv Levy

Polian & Smith are two of the top GM's in the league, Donahoe may not have been great, be he sure is hell a big name in the league. Butler did a great job until he left to SD and took all our players with him, and Levy, while a great coach, was a horrible GM, but a big name.

[SABURZFAN]

Butler was here till 2002, then we hired TD till 06 and if memory serves me right we brought in Levy and then Brandon and Co.

So we've made two hires and both are arguably really big names.


Butler wasn't a GM until Polian left. he only got the job because he had an eye for scouting. he was considered a hot commodity but he wasn't a proven GM.

[DraftBoy]

Butler wasn't a GM until Polian left. he only got the job because he had an eye for scouting. he was considered a hot commodity but he wasn't a proven GM.

Still landing hot commodities is very comendable. Landing the ones that work out is even better.

Nobody ever said Butler was proven but he was a top level, hotly wanted GM candidate.

[trapezeus]

hate on HH all you want. but he's speaking from historical truth. However, something fundamentally feels different about this time around. I think he knows we need to see a real deal put in place. And i think he is facing his mortality and asking questions about his legacy.

I think those two old man fingers from Bud Adams really rubbed him the wrong way. you never call ralph's daughter a ***** and you definitely don't give him the bird...twice.

I am all in though. i really believe they are going to bring in the right people and make t his look like a real NFL team for a change. That being said, if he says "i tried to get them, but they wouldn't come, so i hired Draftboy and Trapezeus to run the team." I expect a full on revolt from the fans...

[DraftBoy]

hate on HH all you want. but he's speaking from historical truth. However, something fundamentally feels different about this time around. I think he knows we need to see a real deal put in place. And i think he is facing his mortality and asking questions about his legacy.

I think those two old man fingers from Bud Adams really rubbed him the wrong way. you never call ralph's daughter a ***** and you definitely don't give him the bird...twice.

I am all in though. i really believe they are going to bring in the right people and make t his look like a real NFL team for a change. That being said, if he says "i tried to get them, but they wouldn't come, so i hired Draftboy and Trapezeus to run the team." I expect a full on revolt from the fans...

Fans can revolt, Im still calling the shots *****es!

My first move is to bring Ing and Coach Sal into the fold on the coaching level.

[SABURZFAN]

We've had top name here:

Bill Polian
A.J. Smith
John Butler
Tom Donahoe
Marv Levy

Polian & Smith are two of the top GM's in the league, Donahoe may not have been great, be he sure is hell a big name in the league. Butler did a great job until he left to SD and took all our players with him, and Levy, while a great coach, was a horrible GM, but a big name.


Polian wasn't a top name until he had a proven track record. he was accidently founded by The Old Fart and it didn't take him long to **** that up. he didn't want to pay the big bucks to retain him.

[SABURZFAN]

Still landing hot commodities is very comendable. Landing the ones that work out is even better.

Nobody ever said Butler was proven but he was a top level, hotly wanted GM candidate.


but when it came to shelling out the dollars, The Old Fart wanted nothing to do with that.

[DraftBoy]

but when it came to shelling out the dollars, The Old Fart wanted nothing to do with that.

Not arguing that, simply saying he has brought in the top level guys that everybody wanted. To say he hasn't is lying.

[TacklingDummy]

Unless he brings in Cowher, Shottenheimer, Shanahan or someone like Parcells that' isn't on a list yet there is no reason to kepp supporting this garbage. If he hadn't got lucky with Polian this team probably wouldn't even be in Buffalo still. Ralph is our own worst enemy.


Big name coaches were nobody's at one point in their careers.

[Typ0]

Im not arguing they failed and that falls on Wilson's feet, but to say we didnt bring in top name GM's or HC's is just a plain bold faced lie.

But its Ralph that is manipulating the facts...


and that is what I'm trying to add to the conversation here. RW is bringing in the best people in his opinion I don't question that at all. He's not cutting corners like some continually suggest. I am sure there is a money component but it's not as bad as some people suggest and RW is doing what he thinks is right in terms of talent. However, we suck at getting talent.

Example, Donahoe was a big hire (I feel like I keep explaining this) and RW was ready to turn things over to that big hire at the time. That's what he did and he got burned. Then he got gun shy on the hires and got Levy because he was a guy he trusted. Unfortunately, he was not competent in that role. So it was a couple of mistakes on RW part that cost the team dearly. He's entitled to make mistakes but if you look at things just from a knowledge standpoint of what's happened you have to believe RW is going to do what he feels is right for the organization but seriously question whether it's actually going to be right or not.

[SABURZFAN]

Not arguing that, simply saying he has brought in the top level guys that everybody wanted. To say he hasn't is lying.


Butler's drafts were far from top level.

[kernowboy]

This is a non-sense thread.

He cannot bring in anyone yet because of the Rooney rule. He has to interview a minority candidate, most like Fewell.

He could sign an out of work big name GM, but there's a reason they are out of work and it makes complete sense IN THE INTEREST OF THE TEAM, to see which GM and Personnel guys are available at the end of the season. After all Pioli isn't doing too much in Kansas.

As for big name coach, Holmgren didn't succeed in Seattle, Shanahan got fired in Denver and Cowher most likely would want to stay in the Carolinas. No GM/HC has worked and as part of the ongoing assessment is to make sure there is some sort of balance as power dominant in one or other has rarely worked. And there are a number of co-ordinators out there worthy of an interview. Cowher, Gruden etc etc also started off as co-ordinators after all. I'd rather the final decision made is a football decision, not one pandering to the need to consider season ticket sales.

Stop whinging about Ralph not doing something when under the NFL's rules he actually can't do anything .... yet.

[Dr. Lecter]

Fans can revolt, Im still calling the shots *****es!

My first move is to bring Ing and Coach Sal into the fold on the coaching level.

Excuse me?

[DraftBoy]

Excuse me?


Yea you got a job too, damn I need a Janitor after all.

[SABURZFAN]

This is a non-sense thread.

He cannot bring in anyone yet because of the Rooney rule. He has to interview a minority candidate, most like Fewell.

He could sign an out of work big name GM, but there's a reason they are out of work and it makes complete sense IN THE INTEREST OF THE TEAM, to see which GM and Personnel guys are available at the end of the season. After all Pioli isn't doing too much in Kansas.

As for big name coach, Holmgren didn't succeed in Seattle, Shanahan got fired in Denver and Cowher most likely would want to stay in the Carolinas. No GM/HC has worked and as part of the ongoing assessment is to make sure there is some sort of balance as power dominant in one or other has rarely worked. And there are a number of co-ordinators out there worthy of an interview. Cowher, Gruden etc etc also started off as co-ordinators after all. I'd rather the final decision made is a football decision, not one pandering to the need to consider season ticket sales.

Stop whinging about Ralph not doing something when under the NFL's rules he actually can't do anything .... yet.

judging from your signature, i hope he doesn't hire you. :ill:

[DraftBoy]

Butler's drafts were far from top level.

But we aren't talking about whether these guys suceeded or failed. We know they did, HH is saying we didnt even bring in top names, which isn't even close to true.

Btw clear out your PM's.

[DraftBoy]

and that is what I'm trying to add to the conversation here. RW is bringing in the best people in his opinion I don't question that at all. He's not cutting corners like some continually suggest. I am sure there is a money component but it's not as bad as some people suggest and RW is doing what he thinks is right in terms of talent. However, we suck at getting talent.

Example, Donahoe was a big hire (I feel like I keep explaining this) and RW was ready to turn things over to that big hire at the time. That's what he did and he got burned. Then he got gun shy on the hires and got Levy because he was a guy he trusted. Unfortunately, he was not competent in that role. So it was a couple of mistakes on RW part that cost the team dearly. He's entitled to make mistakes but if you look at things just from a knowledge standpoint of what's happened you have to believe RW is going to do what he feels is right for the organization but seriously question whether it's actually going to be right or not.


I can't disagree with anything you said, that's well put and right on, imo.

However what HH said is neither right nor well put.

[SABURZFAN]

But we aren't talking about whether these guys suceeded or failed. We know they did, HH is saying we didnt even bring in top names, which isn't even close to true.


Butler wasn't a top name. he was an unproven hot commodity.

[DraftBoy]

Butler wasn't a top name. he was an unproven hot commodity.

I think the line you are attempting to tread is very thing.

He was a hot commodity, but he wasn't a top name? Explain how one is heavily wanted, but not considered a top candidate?

[SABURZFAN]

I think the line you are attempting to tread is very thing.

He was a hot commodity, but he wasn't a top name? Explain how one is heavily wanted, but not considered a top candidate?


i only addressed what you typed in post #21. Butler was not a top GM. he was a hot commodity to replace Polian but he was unproven. just like Mularkey and Moobs were when they were hired as coaches. The Old Fart accidently stumbled onto Polian and he ****ed that up. he became a top notched GM while in Buffalo.

[DraftBoy]

i only addressed what you typed in post #21. Butler was not a top GM. he was a hot commodity to replace Polian but he was unproven. just like Mularkey and Moobs were when they were hired as coaches. The Old Fart accidently stumbled onto Polian and he ****ed that up. he became a top notched GM while in Buffalo.


I got that but if your only point of contention is that they weren't proven yet, ok I guess you can say that. But Ralph has hired the top names in the past.

[Dr. Lecter]

Yea you got a job too, damn I need a Janitor after all.

Be careful.

I might confuse your toothbrush for a toilet brush.

[FlyingDutchman]

are you going to regurgitate the same $&@# over and over until a coach is signed....

[SABURZFAN]

I got that but if your only point of contention is that they weren't proven yet, ok I guess you can say that. But Ralph has hired the top names in the past.


yeah... Donahoe for GM and Chuck Knox as HC. before that, Lou Saban? :idunno:

[Nighthawk]

I agree that we have to wait and see if he follows through on his words, but we also have to wait and see if he DOESN'T before calling him out again. I totally understand the skepticism, but I am choosing to wait and see before getting pissed off.

[HHURRICANE]

Sorry, but the guy better have a winning recod as a head coach in the NFL. Ralph has a limited list to pull from so he'd better open up his check book.

If Ralph is serious about winning than it's not Jim Haslett.

This isn't that complicated. If he's serious about winning than the canidiate is someone who has done it before.

Obvioulsy I have to wait like everyone else here. I'm not watching anymore until he does something meaningful. If he doesn't I'm devoting my weekends back to something more fulfilling.

[Scumbag College]

I think it was a perfect storm of suckiness coming into 2009 which got us this mess we have here today.

-Poor drafting with first and second round picks. You can't consistently miss year after year and expect to be good.
-Poor coaching.
-Poor FA decisions with bringing in lousy players for cheap and missing terribly on the expensive signings.
-Injuries.
-No "franchise" QB.
-Too much drafted talent has left here.

[TedMock]

There are two sides to this. First, I don't think anybody is being manipulated by Ralph. It's okay to be excited by the prospect of a big name coach. That doesn't mean anybody is completely unaware of what the more realistic scenarios are. Second, there are going to be 6-10 vacancies this year. Even if Ralph opens his wallet, what makes a non-Buffalonian think he'd rather be in Buffalo than places like San Diego, Carolina, Dallas, etc. Not to mention we don't exactly have Rivers or Romo under center. We all want the big name, but the big name may not want us. Lastly, if we don't get a big name, I hope the fans consider the situation in its entirety before bailing. There are some excellent "no name" guys out there who I would love to have. Guys with resume's, pedigree and taight by great mentors. I still like Trestman, Grimm, Zimmer, etc as possibilities. The main thing a big name buys us is patience through next year's 6-10 season.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

How is getting a good football mind being manipulating. Seriously, all some people want to do is complain, you must live a miserable life.

[casdhf]

******ed. How many hot, proven, highly sought-after GMs actually switch teams? Idiotic and illogical.

[casdhf]

Maybe be should hire Bill Belicheat or Tom Coughlin. They are proven!

[X-Era]

He is "willing" to bring in a GM and a high profile coach? "Willing" and "doing" are two different things. He basically admitted that Shanahan hadn't been contacted yet.

Unless he brings in Cowher, Shottenheimer, Shanahan or someone like Parcells that' isn't on a list yet there is no reason to kepp supporting this garbage. If he hadn't got lucky with Polian this team probably wouldn't even be in Buffalo still. Ralph is our own worst enemy.

As Sullivan pointed out we are more likely looking at a Mueller/Haslett joke than a serious run at getting this done at the highest level.

Prove me wrong Ralph because you haven't so far.

Theres two possibilities here:

1) Your right- Then we are no worse off then we are right now and will end up, each season, about where we are now. Thats the same, so it doesn't make me mad, I'm used to it.

2) Your wrong- And in that case, we are potentially about to turn the corner, and straighten out this franchise and give us true hope that we can get to the playoffs and maybe win a SB. Thats different and better, and that is a very good thing.

In either case, we are not getting worse and it can either stay the same or get better.

[jamze132]

PS. Those who want to get all negative on me only have to remember that I have history on my side.
Dude, who the **** quotes theirself?

[MassEffect218435]

I think it was a perfect storm of suckiness coming into 2009 which got us this mess we have here today.

-Poor drafting with first and second round picks. You can't consistently miss year after year and expect to be good.
-Poor coaching.
-Poor FA decisions with bringing in lousy players for cheap and missing terribly on the expensive signings.
-Injuries.
-No "franchise" QB.
-Too much drafted talent has left here.This is about 60% of the problem in my opinion.

[Typ0]

We're very hesitant to sign players to long term deals.

[MassEffect218435]

We're very hesitant to sign players to long term deals.Not really, just top-tier players drafted by the Bills.

[MassEffect218435]

Don Bank on Shanahan:


Mike Shanahan -- The former Broncos head coach should be the fairest girl at the ball this year, and have his pick of the jobs available. Buffalo is reportedly already wooing him, but I can't see the usually frugal Ralph Wilson being willing to spend the kind of money it would take to land Shanny. And I can't see Shanny deciding Buffalo is where he wants to work. And I'm going to go out on a limb here and predict you can cross Oakland off his list, too. The smart money continues to be on Washington and Danny "Warbucks'' Snyder (we could call it the Danny and Shanny show).

[Typ0]

Not really, just top-tier players drafted by the Bills.

so we sign long term deals with players drafted by other teams? No we don't. We will pay in the shorter term but locking up big dollars long term is a no no.

[PECKERWOOD]

Who cares? Even if HH is right, he can't change the future. You're just one of us, HH, get off your high horse.

[BertSquirtgum]

i like to fart :giggity: