Anyone Still Hoping We Lose All of Our Remaining Games?

[Jan Reimers]

After playing our hearts out against the Fins?

[Stewie]

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[ddaryl]

I'd rather have a better draft pick then to win out and still miss the playoffs.

This team needs talent and I'll take the better draft spot that can either net us a better pick or a better trade down scenario.

Plus a win over the fins did nothing to rectify the mess this team still IS.

[yordad]

I still want to beat the Pats.

[Billz_fan]

I want to win actually. unless we get a top level staff in place we will flub the draft anyway and if we do get a good coach etc. They will get good value wherever we pick. So I choose win !

[Stewie]

I'd rather have a better draft pick then to win out and still miss the playoffs.

This team needs talent and I'll take the better draft spot that can either net us a better pick or a better trade down scenario.

Plus a win over the fins did nothing to rectify the mess this team still IS.

can you define "better draft pick" ?

[mybills]

Sweep the Jets, beat the Pats, I hate KC too, so I want that win...it would be nice to beat the Colts in cold weather, oh and who plays on the Falcons? :D

[Jan Reimers]

I'd rather have a better draft pick then to win out and still miss the playoffs.

This team needs talent and I'll take the better draft spot that can either net us a better pick or a better trade down scenario.

Plus a win over the fins did nothing to rectify the mess this team still IS.
As I've said before, there is no guarantee that a higher draft spot will net us a better player, given our current talent evaluators. And if we get some better guys in our FO, they should do fine - ala the Colts and Patriots - with wherever we pick.

I just think losing in order to improve your draft status is bad policy. That's why I think few, if any, teams ever do it, even if fans root for it.

[HHURRICANE]

Yes, let's hope for all wins:

1) Than we keep Fewell, and we know how good first time HCs have worked out.

2) At 9-7 we still miss the playoffs and draft at 14th getting an overrated 1st rounder.

3) We sell out again because we were only 2 games from making the playoffs.

4) Ralph decides that we are only a few players away and seals up his wallet.

5) Op and I spend another year *****ing about how stupid this organization is.

Let me remind you that the year we went 2-14 with Kay Stephenson as our coach we beat the Cowboys and people were so happy that they thought Kay should get more time to coach the team.

A win is great but at this point I'd rather sacrifice the season to get a top 10 pick or at least trade it for some more players that we need.

[ddaryl]

can you define "better draft pick" ?


higher up pick. I'd rather draft #3 instead of #11, and use the thepick for on a top OL DL QB or LB, or use that high pick to trade back for multiple 1st day picks.


It would be nice to see the team play good exciting football but I don't really feel that winning benefits the organization this year. It actually gives ammunition to the thought process that not many major changes need to be made.

IMO we need major changes in coaching and talent evaluation and if we win lots of games to end the season were going to get arguments from Ralph and Russ that big changes were not necessary and we'll be delaying the fixes that really need to be made.

I'd also rather have a shot at a top 5 prospect then to sit back and see what falls to us at #11 again

[Stewie]

higher up pick. I'd rather draft #3 instead of #11, and use the thepick for on a top OL DL QB or LB, or use that high pick to trade back for multiple 1st day picks.


It would be nice to see the team play good exciting football but I don't really feel that winning benefits the organization this year. It actually gives ammunition to the thought process that not many major changes need to be made.

IMO we need major changes in coaching and talent evaluation and if we win lots of games to end the season were going to get arguments from Ralph and Russ that big changes were not necessary and we'll be delaying the fixes that really need to be made.

I'd also rather have a shot at a top 5 prospect then to sit back and see what falls to us at #11 again

Since a 1st round pick is a 50-50 proposition at best, I can't for the life of me understand why a the #3 is considered automatically better than #11. Especially considering it comes at a much higher cost.

Yes, I understand that more options are better, and you have more options at 3 than you do at 11. But that doesn't guarantee anything, and it certainly doesn't make 3 automatically better than 11.

Especially considering you have to totally suck to get the 3rd pick.

It boils down to: why lose now to win later, when you can win now?

[MikeInRoch]

I will never, ever root for the team to lose - nor will I be happy with losses.

[ddaryl]

As I've said before, there is no guarantee that a higher draft spot will net us a better player, given our current talent evaluators. And if we get some better guys in our FO, they should do fine - ala the Colts and Patriots - with wherever we pick.

I just think losing in order to improve your draft status is bad policy. That's why I think few, if any, teams ever do it, even if fans root for it.


Although I agree with your 1st paragraph, I also don't feel lettting players fall to us at #11 is what this team needs. I want the top DL OL QB or LB in the top 5... OR the opportunity to trade down from a top 5 pick and parlay that pick into extra 1st day picks. This team needs a major talent influx quickly... and one of the best ways to do that quickly is to have a higher draft pick. The other is to have lots of cap space for FA which we do but guess what next year is an uncapped year...


I don't want the Bills to play to lose... I never do... I just rather we lose because there is nothing winning will do that will make the offseason better.

In fact I view winning out as more of a huge negative for this team. It will give Perry a stong argumenbt for the HC position, It will probably keep us upgrading the talent evaluators on this team, it will probably convinve Ralph and Russ they do not have to make some big FA moves and it will keep us from having more ammuition to work with in the draft by either picking in the top 5 or trading back for extra 1st day picks


The only thing winning out does is produce a fake confidennce that will set this franchise back another 2-3 years IMO with the decisions that willbe made based off of how we finished 2009 rather then how we looked the last 5-10 years

[M]

I never want the Bills to lose. :homer:

[Jan Reimers]

Yes, let's hope for all wins:

1) Than we keep Fewell, and we know how good first time HCs have worked out.

2) At 9-7 we still miss the playoffs and draft at 14th getting an overrated 1st rounder.

3) We sell out again because we were only 2 games from making the playoffs.

4) Ralph decides that we are only a few players away and seals up his wallet.

5) Op and I spend another year *****ing about how stupid this organization is.

Let me remind you that the year we went 2-14 with Kay Stephenson as our coach we beat the Cowboys and people were so happy that they thought Kay should get more time to coach the team.

A win is great but at this point I'd rather sacrifice the season to get a top 10 pick or at least trade it for some more players that we need.
I don't agree that 1), 3) or 4) will necessarily follow even a miracle finish. And this team will definitely not win our final 5 games, even though I will root for them in every one. And 5) is a given, no matter what happens.:roflmao:

[Stewie]

Although I agree with your 1st paragraph, I also don't feel lettting players fall to us at #11 is what this team needs. I want the top DL OL QB or LB in the top 5... OR the opportunity to trade down from a top 5 pick and parlay that pick into extra 1st day picks. This team needs a major talent influx quickly... and one of the best ways to do that quickly is to have a higher draft pick. The other is to have lots of cap space for FA which we do but guess what next year is an uncapped year...


I don't want the Bills to play to lose... I never do... I just rather we lose because there is nothing winning will do that will make the offseason better.

In fact I view winning out as more of a huge negative for this team. It will give Perry a stong argumenbt for the HC position, It will probably keep us upgrading the talent evaluators on this team, it will probably convinve Ralph and Russ they do not have to make some big FA moves and it will keep us from having more ammuition to work with in the draft by either picking in the top 5 or trading back for extra 1st day picks


The only thing winning out does is produce a fake confidennce that will set this franchise back another 2-3 years IMO with the decisions that willbe made based off of how we finished 2009 rather then how we looked the last 5-10 years

what this team needs is to draft 32nd. And the only way to get that is to win games, not lose them, and further teach the young players already on this organization how to lose.

[ddaryl]

Especially considering you have to totally suck to get the 3rd pick.

It boils down to: why lose now to win later, when you can win now?



Seriously... How does it benefit us to win now ? You're right about the draft being a bit of crap shoot, but you can trade down for #5 or so for big picks and have multipel 1st day picks or you can win out draft at #11 or so and limit your options a heluva alot more. I prefer more options for this team and that comes from a better draft position IMO.

If we win out Perry becomes the serious candidate for HC... :puke:

If we end up 9-7 all that will do is tell Ralph and Russ they can make minor changes because obviously it was just jauron... and you and I both know it is more then just Jauron. Jauron was the just the most blatantly obvious flaw in the organization.

I don't see how winning does anything to make this team better... IMO it just solidifies the thought process that maybe we are that bad and don't need major changes.

A continuation of looking like crap forces Russ and Ralph to clean house and hand over talent evaluation to someone with else while also giving us a HC that has multiple years of winning in the NFL under his belt.

[Stewie]

Although I agree with your 1st paragraph, I also don't feel lettting players fall to us at #11 is what this team needs. I want the top DL OL QB or LB in the top 5... OR the opportunity to trade down from a top 5 pick and parlay that pick into extra 1st day picks. This team needs a major talent influx quickly... and one of the best ways to do that quickly is to have a higher draft pick. The other is to have lots of cap space for FA which we do but guess what next year is an uncapped year...


I don't want the Bills to play to lose... I never do... I just rather we lose because there is nothing winning will do that will make the offseason better.

In fact I view winning out as more of a huge negative for this team. It will give Perry a stong argumenbt for the HC position, It will probably keep us upgrading the talent evaluators on this team, it will probably convinve Ralph and Russ they do not have to make some big FA moves and it will keep us from having more ammuition to work with in the draft by either picking in the top 5 or trading back for extra 1st day picks


The only thing winning out does is produce a fake confidennce that will set this franchise back another 2-3 years IMO with the decisions that willbe made based off of how we finished 2009 rather then how we looked the last 5-10 years

because.. you play to win the game!!!!

you don't play to get a draftpick!

which may or may not work out

but will definitely get paid too much (although that could change)

the patriots draft between 20 and 30 every year, they seem to do okay. Same with Indy.

Do you think Peyton manning would ever for a second even consider it beneficial to lose a game for a "better" draft pick?

[ddaryl]

what this team needs is to draft 32nd. And the only way to get that is to win games, not lose them, and further teach the young players already on this organization how to lose.

I agree drafting #32 would be awesome

guess what.. No chance of even making the playoffs this year let alone winning the superbowl so at least put up an argument that makes a little sense instead of non sense.

The players on this organization can learn to win next year with a new coach who does not accept losing and the threat of losing their jobs from playing like crap for most of the year already.


I would rather draft higher then win games. If there is no shot at the playoffs, and there is no shot at the playoff this year no matter what the math says, then winning does nothing for us... NOTHING... It's not going magically do anything for this team but keep us stuck in mediocrity IMO

[trapezeus]

i'm not rooting for losses...i just expect losses. i was pleasantly surprised with the fight in the team vs the dolphins.

When they do lose, i do take pleasure that it furthers what a lot of us said at the beginning of the season and that is that they weren't even close to being competitive. It's not the being right that is satisfying, it's that we won't be subjected to the same ol' same ol' next year.

i don't think the bills offense is that far removed from being decent. if they get the stud OL and fitz can manage a game, they should be ok. it's the defense surprisingly that needs more help across the line and with theLBs. They could be amazing if they had a few playmakers in the box.

[mybills]

Seriously... How does it benefit us to win now ? You're right about the draft being a bit of crap shoot, but you can trade down for #5 or so for big picks and have multipel 1st day picks or you can win out draft at #11 or so and limit your options a heluva alot more. I prefer more options for this team and that comes from a better draft position IMO.

If we win out Perry becomes the serious candidate for HC... :puke:

If we end up 9-7 all that will do is tell Ralph and Russ they can make minor changes because obviously it was just jauron... and you and I both know it is more then just Jauron. Jauron was the just the most blatantly obvious flaw in the organization.

I don't see how winning does anything to make this team better... IMO it just solidifies the thought process that maybe we are that bad and don't need major changes.

A continuation of looking like crap forces Russ and Ralph to clean house and hand over talent evaluation to someone with else while also giving us a HC that has multiple years of winning in the NFL under his belt.
What if NE, Jets and Miami lose the rest of their games, and the Bills win them all...should they say "sorry, we can't be in the playoffs because we need a better draft pick." ??

:shutup:

[DesertFox24]

Always hope for us to win, and win as many games as possible.

FA are not going to come to a team that is far away from winning, also if you look at this draft it is very deep and we could get a top 10 player in the middle of the first round.

[Jan Reimers]

I find it strange for fans to look at winning as a negative - anytime, under any circumstances, especially when many of our players will be back next year.

I think it's crazy to think that there is going to be a complete housecleaning. Not only is it not practical - you really can't add 40 or so new players - but it is unnecessary. There are many good players on this team, who will really be helped by winning.

I think a quality QB, a couple of good D-linemen, a stud OT and a big time LB would make us very competitive. Coupled, of course, with the development of our young players and the return of some key players from injury.

This team does not have to be completely blown up.

[Night Train]

After playing our hearts out against the Fins?

You KNOW how I feel. I NEVER hope to lose. :down:

Sitting in the stands yesterday was such a great feeling, knowing Miami was going down and Jauron wasn't around to screw it up.

I can't stand the wannabe GM's here who think they have all the answers in the draft. It's such an exact science. :rolleyes:

Tank the rest of the season. Yeah right.... Screw that. Live in the present and win as much as possible. Build confidence towards the future with many on the present roster.

[ddaryl]

because.. you play to win the game!!!!

you don't play to get a draftpick!

which may or may not work out

but will definitely get paid too much (although that could change)

the patriots draft between 20 and 30 every year, they seem to do okay. Same with Indy.

Do you think Peyton manning would ever for a second even consider it beneficial to lose a game for a "better" draft pick?

1st of all I never said I wanted the team to play to lose... Never once.

I said I prefer they just lose out because IMO draft position is more important for the franchise that needs to clean house and make major changes to its roster and it's schemes.


I don't care about what the pats and indy's have done, they are a different situation. They have quality talent evaluators and have quality teams that have won for a decade plus. They are not the Bills who need to gut some of their talent evaluators, their coaches and some of their players to build a team capable of winning consistently.


Winning does nothing for the Bills but satisfies the fans enough to keep Ralph and Brandon from making the changes that really need to be made, and that is not worth any amounts of wins under any circumstnace. I want the type of changes that comes from the pain we have endured, and if we do not endure more pain down the stretch well then I assure you it just means even more pain in the near future while we stumble and bumble the franchise some more

[Stewie]

I agree drafting #32 would be awesome

guess what.. No chance of even making the playoffs this year let alone winning the superbowl so at least put up an argument that makes a little sense instead of non sense.

The players on this organization can learn to win next year with a new coach who does not accept losing and the threat of losing their jobs from playing like crap for most of the year already.


I would rather draft higher then win games. If there is no shot at the playoffs, and there is no shot at the playoff this year no matter what the math says, then winning does nothing for us... NOTHING... It's not going magically do anything for this team but keep us stuck in mediocrity IMO
we're not going to make the playoffs so we should tank the season and teach our players how to lose? or that losing is somehow what they're sacrificing their health, youth and careers for?

really?

edit: allright so the position seems to be you want them to play to win yet still lose?

I disagree.

[NorthCarBills]

Since Jauron's departure I seem to have a renewed passion, and perhaps that's reflective of our team's / coach's new sideline demeanor. Not saying I dont want a more proven head coach than Fewell, and I certainly realize there are a ton of holes to fill across the board. But I am nowhere near the "I dont care if we lose" state I was in only a few weeks ago. I still rooted for the Bills at that point but laughed at losses.

So in short, go Bills!

[ddaryl]

I find it strange for fans to look at winning as a negative - anytime, under any circumstances, especially when many of our players will be back next year.

I think it's crazy to think that there is going to be a complete housecleaning. Not only is it not practical - you really can't add 40 or so new players - but it is unnecessary. There are many good players on this team, who will really be helped by winning.

I think a quality QB, a couple of good D-linemen, a stud OT and a big time LB would make us very competitive. Coupled, of course, with the development of our young players and the return of some key players from injury.

This team does not have to be completely blown up.

I find it even stranger to see fans take it in the ass for so long, and these same fans who know what will happen if we end this season on a high note.

I don't want the team to play to lose, I want them top play their asses off but I know this team has 0 chance at being a contender in the state that it is in.

We need better players

We need better coaches,

We need better talent evaluators.


If we have this wonderful ending to this season I forsee many changes that might have been made not being made and keeping us in the funk we have been in for way to long.


So I am willing to not care about winning this season which I really don't care about anymore anyways because lets face it we are not winning the superbowl let alone sniffing the playoffs, in exchange for the hope and optomism of major changes to the organization and a top 10 draft pick.


So I say the team should play to win... I just rather their efforts continue to come up just short like the last few years so we will get the changes I want to the team

[Mahdi]

As I've said before, there is no guarantee that a higher draft spot will net us a better player, given our current talent evaluators. And if we get some better guys in our FO, they should do fine - ala the Colts and Patriots - with wherever we pick.

I just think losing in order to improve your draft status is bad policy. That's why I think few, if any, teams ever do it, even if fans root for it.
Well lets see who we missed by picking 11-13 every year....

Joe Thomas, Larry Fitz, Jake Long, Patrick Willis, Vernon Davis, Mario Williams, D'Brick, Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Matt Ryan, Sedrick Ellis, Keith Rivers, Jerod Mayo, (Dorsey and McFadden will be good players with better teams). Aaron Currey, Stafford, Monroe, Raji, Crabtree, Andre Smith.

The way I see it, I would rather have a high choice and have a 60/40 shot at an elite player than have a 40/60 shot at an NFL starter.

These days with all that goes into drafting, hitting on top 5 and top 10 has become easier.

[Mahdi]

I find it even stranger to see fans take it in the ass for so long, and these same fans who know what will happen if we end this season on a high note.

I don't want the team to play to lose, I want them top play their asses off but I know this team has 0 chance at being a contender in the state that it is in.

We need better players

We need better coaches,

We need better talent evaluators.


If we have this wonderful ending to this season I forsee many changes that might have been made not being made and keeping us in the funk we have been in for way to long.


So I am willing to not care about winning this season which I really don't care about anymore anyways because lets face it we are not winning the superbowl let alone sniffing the playoffs, in exchange for the hope and optomism of major changes to the organization and a top 10 draft pick.


So I say the team should play to win... I just rather their efforts continue to come up just short like the last few years so we will get the changes I want to the team
And this is exactly why I was AGAINST the firing of Jauron in mid-season while everyone was celebrating.

This team is what it is and a last season surge is just masking everything. And I find it HILARIOUS that many ppl on this board are impressed enough to suggest that Fewell should be the HC moving forward.

We love punishment around here.

[Meathead]

for the umpteenth time, i dont openly root for losses during the game but when its over and they lose im happy for the better draft position

putting a bullet through the heart of the fish playoff dreams was awesome. but yes, i hope they lose the rest of em

[Meathead]

- prepare your ass off
- play your ass off
- try your best to win

and then just lose baby

[Dr. Lecter]

for the umpteenth time, i dont openly root for losses during the game but when its over and they lose im happy for the better draft position

putting a bullet through the heart of the fish playoff dreams was awesome. but yes, i hope they lose the rest of em

Negged for hoping they ever lose.

And you first paragraph is parsing words at its finest.

[justasportsfan]

After playing our hearts out against the Fins?


Now that Dick is gone I want the team to win. I feel sorry for the talent on this team who were set up to fail by the past HC. They were made to look really soft.

[Meathead]

games that the bills are still in the playoff hunt:
- i watch the game
- i hope for good results
- i cheer when good things happen
- im pissed when they lose

games that the bills are not in the playoff hunt:
- i watch the game
- i hope for good results
- i cheer when good things happen
- doesnt bug me in the least if they win or lose but i realize a loss is actually a good thing

[Stewie]

as much as we all get frustrated with the team, I can't believe that when push comes to shove, any bills fan really wants to see the team lose on gamedays.

[Jan Reimers]

I find it even stranger to see fans take it in the ass for so long, and these same fans who know what will happen if we end this season on a high note.
That's why we are called fans (a word that is short for "fanatics") and not "totally rational, objective and neutral followers of a specific team." But beyond that, there are valid reasons for always rooting for your team to win:

First, it is the sole reason for playing. Second, it builds confidence and a winning culture. Third, the draft is a total crap shoot, anyway, and not a guarantee of success. Fourth, it makes it more likely for veteran players, good coaches and qualified front office people to come here. Fifth, it brings people into the stands and energizes the fan base, which at least helps with the long term viability of the team. And sixth, it makes us feel better.

I think winning our remaining games would be a great shot in the arm for this team, for both the present and the FUTURE.

[Jan Reimers]

Well lets see who we missed by picking 11-13 every year....

Joe Thomas, Larry Fitz, Jake Long, Patrick Willis, Vernon Davis, Mario Williams, D'Brick, Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Matt Ryan, Sedrick Ellis, Keith Rivers, Jerod Mayo, (Dorsey and McFadden will be good players with better teams). Aaron Currey, Stafford, Monroe, Raji, Crabtree, Andre Smith.

The way I see it, I would rather have a high choice and have a 60/40 shot at an elite player than have a 40/60 shot at an NFL starter.

These days with all that goes into drafting, hitting on top 5 and top 10 has become easier.
And we would have taken all these guys.? And there weren't busts before our picks, as well as stars still available after our 11-13 picks?

[Mahdi]

And we would have taken all these guys.? And there weren't busts before our picks, as well as stars still available after our 11-13 picks?
Of course there were busts and of course there were guys picked after us that were amazing.

But making your pick in the top 5 these days gives you a much better chance of getting a franchise player. And we dont have a franchise player.

[Stewie]

Well lets see who we missed by picking 11-13 every year....

Joe Thomas, Larry Fitz, Jake Long, Patrick Willis, Vernon Davis, Mario Williams, D'Brick, Calvin Johnson, Adrian Peterson, Matt Ryan, Sedrick Ellis, Keith Rivers, Jerod Mayo, (Dorsey and McFadden will be good players with better teams). Aaron Currey, Stafford, Monroe, Raji, Crabtree, Andre Smith.

The way I see it, I would rather have a high choice and have a 60/40 shot at an elite player than have a 40/60 shot at an NFL starter.

These days with all that goes into drafting, hitting on top 5 and top 10 has become easier.
I call :bs:

what are you basing your statement on, that drafting in the top 5 or top 10 is "easier" or better odds?

and its hilarious that you say those "good players" are on better teams. You know why they're better? because they win games! the same games you would rather our team lose! to get a draft pick?

play to win the game!

[justasportsfan]

Of course there were busts and of course there were guys picked after us that were amazing.

But making your pick in the top 5 these days gives you a much better chance of getting a franchise player. And we dont have a franchise player.


for every franchise player taken in the top 5, there's also a bust in the top 5. Mike Williams?

We could have taken those players you listed and our coaching staff would have turned them into busts and we'd be talking about how good and how we missed out on Lee, McKelvin , etc.etc.

[Mahdi]

I call :bs:

what are you basing your statement on, that drafting in the top 5 or top 10 is "easier" or better odds?

and its hilarious that you say those "good players" are on better teams. You know why they're better? because they win games! the same games you would rather our team lose! to get a draft pick?

play to win the game!
Yes. Picking in the top 5 and top 10 does give you better odds at a franchise player. And seeing as how we have no franchise players here, it would be nice to have one.

Also, we are in desperate need of a QB and OT and the best ones are always selected in the top 10. Am I wrong?

[Stewie]

a small sampling of first round players available after our pick from 2005 to present:

2005, Pick 20 (traded to dallas)
Aaron Rodgers
Logan Mankins
Roddy White

2006, Pick 8 (Whitner)
Ngata
Cutler
Davin Josph
Nick Mangold
Mathias Kanikua


2007, Pick 12 (Lynch)
Revis
Greg Olsen

2008, Pick 11 (McKelvin)
Chris Johnson
Joe Flacco
DRC
Like 5 OT's

2009, Pick 12 (Maybin)
Orakpo
Cushing
Oher

Etc.

Yes, I know that it's real easy to pick this stuff out in hindsight, and that's the point.

This team will not ever be "saved" by a high draft pick.

Play to win the game!

[Mahdi]

for every franchise player taken in the top 5, there's also a bust in the top 5. Mike Williams?

We could have taken those players you listed and our coaching staff would have turned them into busts and we'd be talking about how good and how we missed out on Lee, McKelvin , etc.etc.
Would Lee and Mckelvin be better players if they were on better teams? Yes.

But when you pick in the top 5 you are usually picking a lineman or a QB, and sometimes an elite skill player like Fitz and Peterson.

No matter who Lee played for he would never be as good or as valuable as Fitzgerald.

[Mahdi]

a small sampling of first round players available after our pick from 2005 to present:

2005, Pick 20 (traded to dallas)
Aaron Rodgers
Logan Mankins
Roddy White

2006, Pick 8 (Whitner)
Ngata
Cutler
Davin Josph
Nick Mangold
Mathias Kanikua


2007, Pick 12 (Lynch)
Revis
Greg Olsen

2008, Pick 11 (McKelvin)
Chris Johnson
Joe Flacco
DRC
Like 5 OT's

2009, Pick 12 (Maybin)
Orakpo
Cushing
Oher

Etc.

Yes, I know that it's real easy to pick this stuff out in hindsight, and that's the point.

This team will not ever be "saved" by a high draft pick.

Play to win the game!
Revis was picked before our pick.

[Jan Reimers]

Of course there were busts and of course there were guys picked after us that were amazing.

But making your pick in the top 5 these days gives you a much better chance of getting a franchise player. And we dont have a franchise player.
I see your point. I just disagree that ANYTHING is a valid reason to root for your team to lose, including the probability of increasing your odds in the draft.

[Mahdi]

I see your point. I just disagree that ANYTHING is a valid reason to root for your team to lose, including the probability of increasing your odds in the draft.
Honestly, I wasn't rooting for it. I just would not have been as upset as I usually am had they lost.

[Mr. Pink]

Does it matter if we pick 1st, 8th, 15th, 20th with who the people are that evaluate talent anyways?

[justasportsfan]

Would Lee and Mckelvin be better players if they were on better teams? Yes.

But when you pick in the top 5 you are usually picking a lineman or a QB, and sometimes an elite skill player like Fitz and Peterson.

No matter who Lee played for he would never be as good or as valuable as Fitzgerald.

Fitzgerald wouldn't be as good as he is if he was coached by Dick. Simply saying it wouldn't matter who and where we picked. With Dick as HC , they would look like idiots.

Look as what we did to TO when Dick was the coach.

[djjimkelly]

After playing our hearts out against the Fins?


yes

[Stewie]

Yes. Picking in the top 5 and top 10 does give you better odds at a franchise player. And seeing as how we have no franchise players here, it would be nice to have one.

Also, we are in desperate need of a QB and OT and the best ones are always selected in the top 10. Am I wrong?

Yes, yes you are. clearly.

the best qb's are always selected in the top 10? really?

first of all, can you name all the so-called "Franchise" players in the league. There are what, six? Maybe ten? Brady, Manning, Other Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger are the proven ones.. then there are maybes, ryan, flacco, etc.. who are these franchise players you are talking about?

Ten out of roughly 1700 active players on gameday. You want to lose game to draft and develop a one-half of one percent chance type player?

Even if there's 20 franchise players. Which there aren't. Now you're talking about a whopping 1% of the league.

How is this not the definition of insanity?

Second, lets take a look at the best qb's this year and where they were drafted. Some of these are off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure they're all accurate.

Brett Favre, 2nd round
Drew Brees, 2nd round
Aaron Rodgers, 1st round (#24)
Peyton Manning, 1st round (#2)
Phillip Rivers, 1st round (#5)
Tom Brady, 6th round (who knows)
Ben Roethlisberger, 1st round (#11)
Matt Schaub, 3rd round (#90)
Kurt Warner, uhh, yeah.
Donovan McNabb, 1st round (#2)

Ok, so include Eli on this list to make your case stronger, and you still only get roughly half of the best QB's this year drafted between picks 1 and 5. And only one of them, Peyton, took a putrid team and almost single handedly turned the franchise around.

So no, the best QB's are not always drafted in the top ten. On that, you are clearly wrong.

And also on the whole wanting to lose to win thing.

[Stewie]

Revis was picked before our pick.

Wrong again.

[Bravo82]

Im not looking at the wins and losses the rest of the season. I'd rather see the team play well in a loss, than play like garbage in a 6-3 type win. That said, seeing the team perform well AND win the game yesterday was great.

[DraftBoy]

I find it strange for fans to look at winning as a negative - anytime, under any circumstances, especially when many of our players will be back next year.

I think it's crazy to think that there is going to be a complete housecleaning. Not only is it not practical - you really can't add 40 or so new players - but it is unnecessary. There are many good players on this team, who will really be helped by winning.

I think a quality QB, a couple of good D-linemen, a stud OT and a big time LB would make us very competitive. Coupled, of course, with the development of our young players and the return of some key players from injury.

This team does not have to be completely blown up.

While I dont agree with the second paragraph on down, I do agree with the premise. You never ever cheer for a team to lose or relish a loss. Fans openly rooting for losses are drawing ever so close to that thin line of not being fans at all.

The team needs a re-haul though, let's not fool ourselves into thinking we are comparable talent wise. We need a ton of depth on both lines, we need WR depth, two QB's, three LB's, another CB, and two safeties at the least. And that's not accounting for players who are aging in the least bit. The team could use a gutting and fresh start. And right now Im not sure that Perry Fewell isn't the right man to lead us as the head coach. I haven't seen a Bills team play this hard since Levy was here.

[topher180]

If the Bills were to win out and not make the playoffs, it means absolutely nothing. You can argue and get all hot and bothered as much as you want. But logically, 8-8 only decreases our draft choice. Also, to argue that drafting lower is better is illogical as well. You are in effect saying that the draft system, as is, doesn't try to reward the worst teams. That somehow picking say 27th gives you a better chance at talent. So while true that our scouting department's ineptitude could screw up a free lunch, picking higher, solely based on odds, lessens the likeliness of said screw up, since the best players are drafted first!

I am a Bills fan, but I also have half a brain. I can enjoy the win for a few days, but then rationally realize it really doesn't help them out.

[Ebenezer]

It was Miami....a true Bills fan NEVER roots for the Bills to lose to Miami - EVER!

[DraftBoy]

If the Bills were to win out and not make the playoffs, it means absolutely nothing. You can argue and get all hot and bothered as much as you want. But logically, 8-8 only decreases our draft choice. Also, to argue that drafting lower is better is illogical as well. You are in effect saying that the draft system, as is, doesn't try to reward the worst teams. That somehow picking say 27th gives you a better chance at talent. So while true that our scouting department's ineptitude could screw up a free lunch, picking higher, solely based on odds, lessens the likeliness of said screw up, since the best players are drafted first!

I am a Bills fan, but I also have half a brain. I can enjoy the win for a few days, but then rationally realize it really doesn't help them out.


Teams get better through the draft regardless of your position, the draft is weighted towards worst teams because the best "college" players go first, however that doesn't mean they'll be the best players in the pros. Odds wise they have a higher success rate yes but good teams select good players regardless of their draft position. If we want to be a good team, we have to start by getting good talent evaluators in here so it doesnt matter if we're drafting 5th or 27th, we can have faith that the pick will be a good one.

[Ebenezer]

Teams get better through the draft regardless of your position, the draft is weighted towards worst teams because the best "college" players go first, however that doesn't mean they'll be the best players in the pros. Odds wise they have a higher success rate yes but good teams select good players regardless of their draft position. If we want to be a good team, we have to start by getting good talent evaluators in here so it doesnt matter if we're drafting 5th or 27th, we can have faith that the pick will be a good one.

If drafting early is the key to future success then the Pats should suck. It's not where you draft it's who you draft.

[Typ0]

If the Bills were to win out and not make the playoffs, it means absolutely nothing. You can argue and get all hot and bothered as much as you want. But logically, 8-8 only decreases our draft choice. Also, to argue that drafting lower is better is illogical as well. You are in effect saying that the draft system, as is, doesn't try to reward the worst teams. That somehow picking say 27th gives you a better chance at talent. So while true that our scouting department's ineptitude could screw up a free lunch, picking higher, solely based on odds, lessens the likeliness of said screw up, since the best players are drafted first!

I am a Bills fan, but I also have half a brain. I can enjoy the win for a few days, but then rationally realize it really doesn't help them out.


I question your assessment of the draft and value of the picks when they are. It doesn't matter when you pick your scouting department had better be good or they will blow it. Heck, even good scouting departments might blow it but overall the ones that perform the best end up being the teams that are picking later. But the true value of picking later is those players will make less money in the initial years of their contracts and that will free up more $$ to spend on proven FAs those years.

[DraftBoy]

If drafting early is the key to future success then the Pats should suck. It's not where you draft it's who you draft.

And the Lions rock!

[topher180]

Teams get better through the draft regardless of your position, the draft is weighted towards worst teams because the best "college" players go first, however that doesn't mean they'll be the best players in the pros. Odds wise they have a higher success rate yes but good teams select good players regardless of their draft position. If we want to be a good team, we have to start by getting good talent evaluators in here so it doesnt matter if we're drafting 5th or 27th, we can have faith that the pick will be a good one.

You essentially made my point while disagreeing with me Chris DraftBoy.

I agree about the talent evaluators. Wouldn't you say though, that the scary good scouts are more valuable in the later rounds, after the talent drop off of the top college players? That is where the team building occurs.

Look there are going to be busts, I get it. But I don't think a Mike Williams solely makes the argument that high draft picks mean nothing. If anything that is just more of an indictment of the FO.

[Stewie]

If the Bills were to win out and not make the playoffs, it means absolutely nothing. You can argue and get all hot and bothered as much as you want. But logically, 8-8 only decreases our draft choice. Also, to argue that drafting lower is better is illogical as well. You are in effect saying that the draft system, as is, doesn't try to reward the worst teams. That somehow picking say 27th gives you a better chance at talent. So while true that our scouting department's ineptitude could screw up a free lunch, picking higher, solely based on odds, lessens the likeliness of said screw up, since the best players are drafted first!

I am a Bills fan, but I also have half a brain. I can enjoy the win for a few days, but then rationally realize it really doesn't help them out.

no one is saying drafting lower is better

what we are saying is the draft is a crapshoot. because it is. to claim anything else is to completely ignore draft history.

[DraftBoy]

You essentially made my point while disagreeing with me Chris DraftBoy.

I agree about the talent evaluators. Wouldn't you say though, that the scary good scouts are more valuable in the later rounds, after the talent drop off of the top college players? That is where the team building occurs.

Look there are going to be busts, I get it. But I don't think a Mike Williams solely makes the argument that high draft picks mean nothing. If anything that is just more of an indictment of the FO.

And Im not disagreeing with you, Im pointing out that my faith in the FO leads me to believe that even if Barry Sanders/Jerry Rice/Joe Montana part II was available for us, we'd pass on him for some odd reason due to our lack of talent evaluation ability. Until we fix that, cheering for a better draft position seems quite futile.

No Id say the good scouts are most valuable in the early rounds as well as the late rounds. You can make a Marques Colston pick and be excited about it, but if you make a Brian Bosworth pick all you're doing is shooting yourself in the foot because it hurts your cap a hell of a lot more. So no the scary good scouts are as valuable in Round 1 as they are in Round 7.

[topher180]

no one is saying drafting lower is better

what we are saying is the draft is a crapshoot. because it is. to claim anything else is to completely ignore draft history.

Got that impression when I read the thread. I realize it's a crapshoot, and have eluded to that sentiment.

Look it's a slippery slope. We all care, we all want the team to be better, we just have slightly different opinions, outside of the common threads we share.

[topher180]

And Im not disagreeing with you, Im pointing out that my faith in the FO leads me to believe that even if Barry Sanders/Jerry Rice/Joe Montana part II was available for us, we'd pass on him for some odd reason due to our lack of talent evaluation ability. Until we fix that, cheering for a better draft position seems quite futile.

No Id say the good scouts are most valuable in the early rounds as well as the late rounds. You can make a Marques Colston pick and be excited about it, but if you make a Brian Bosworth pick all you're doing is shooting yourself in the foot because it hurts your cap a hell of a lot more. So no the scary good scouts are as valuable in Round 1 as they are in Round 7.

Interesting point. I can't really argue either way on it. Fair enough.

[Mahdi]

Yes, yes you are. clearly.

the best qb's are always selected in the top 10? really?

first of all, can you name all the so-called "Franchise" players in the league. There are what, six? Maybe ten? Brady, Manning, Other Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger are the proven ones.. then there are maybes, ryan, flacco, etc.. who are these franchise players you are talking about?

Ten out of roughly 1700 active players on gameday. You want to lose game to draft and develop a one-half of one percent chance type player?

Even if there's 20 franchise players. Which there aren't. Now you're talking about a whopping 1% of the league.

How is this not the definition of insanity?

Second, lets take a look at the best qb's this year and where they were drafted. Some of these are off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure they're all accurate.

Brett Favre, 2nd round
Drew Brees, 2nd round
Aaron Rodgers, 1st round (#24)
Peyton Manning, 1st round (#2)
Phillip Rivers, 1st round (#5)
Tom Brady, 6th round (who knows)
Ben Roethlisberger, 1st round (#11)
Matt Schaub, 3rd round (#90)
Kurt Warner, uhh, yeah.
Donovan McNabb, 1st round (#2)

Ok, so include Eli on this list to make your case stronger, and you still only get roughly half of the best QB's this year drafted between picks 1 and 5. And only one of them, Peyton, took a putrid team and almost single handedly turned the franchise around.

So no, the best QB's are not always drafted in the top ten. On that, you are clearly wrong.

And also on the whole wanting to lose to win thing.
K I obviously did not mean ALWAYS... I meant usually.

Top QBs:

Brees, Manning, Manning, Brady, Rivers, Ryan, McNabb, Palmer, Romo, Rodgers, Warner, Roth, Young might prove to be a top QB but I wont count him now.

# Selected in top 5: 6 of 11.

Top OTs:

Joe Thomas, D'Brick, Long, Clady, Roos, Flozell, Diehl, Samuels, Mckinney, Jammal Brown, Walter Jones, Orlando Pace.

# Selected in top 10: 6 of 13

Top DL:

Wilfork, Seymour, Kris Jenkins, Shaun Rodgers, Freeney, Mathis, Aaron Smith, Mario Williams, Hampton, Henderson, Stroud, Haynesworth, Ratliff, Tuck, Umenyiora, Tommie Harris, Trent Cole, Kevin Williams, Pat Williams, John Abraham, Julius Peppers, Will Smith, Sedrick Ellis, Dockett.

# of top 10: 4 of 24


All the players mentioned on my lists are worth of receiving the franchise tag by their respective teams. 16 of them are top ten picks.

So that is 16 of the top 50 players among QBs and linemen are picked in the top 10. That is 32% of the top 50 QBs and lineman are top 10. 11 of those 16 are top 5 picks.


22% of the top 50 QBs and linemen are top 5 picks.

I would say that you have a better chance of getting that elite player, worthy of a franchise tag in the top 10.

[baalworship]

http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/is-the-top-nfl-draft-pick-a-penalty/

I think that recent analysis has shown that the best place to pick in the draft is between 6-11. You can get an impact player but you are not paying them 8 million + a year.

This year it really doesn't matter whether we WANT the Bills to win or lose. The Bills will do what they are going to do. What is likely is we lose at least 3 games and probably 4. I think this team will beat KC, the Jets is a toss up, and the other 3 are losses. If that happens we will be picking around 8-10. We can get a difference maker in here as long as we have a new GM.

[Nighthawk]

And the homer parade is in full effect after a win...pretty funny.

[Dr. Lecter]

And the homer parade is in full effect after a win...pretty funny.

Homer parade?

What the **** are you talking about? Nobody is being a homer in this thread.

Oh, I forgot.

You prefer losing.

And you call DraftBoy arrogant?

At least he admits it.

[BertSquirtgum]

you won't see me ever rooting against the bills. no matter what. anybody who says they're a bills fan and does root against them deserves a swift kick to the nuts.

[Mahdi]

Interestingly enough... the Bills still have a shot at winning the division.

We just have to win every game and the Pats have to lose at least 4 of their last 6.

[DraftBoy]

Homer parade?

What the **** are you talking about? Nobody is being a homer in this thread.

Oh, I forgot.

You prefer losing.

And you call DraftBoy arrogant?

At least he admits it.

Careful he'll think we are conspiring to team up against him again!

[Nighthawk]

Homer parade?

What the **** are you talking about? Nobody is being a homer in this thread.

Oh, I forgot.

You prefer losing.

And you call DraftBoy arrogant?

At least he admits it.

Are you serious??? There are more people on this board today that think everything is fine and we should hire Fewell as HC right now then I've ever seen! One win and everybody is assuming that all it takes is a poor DC getting promoted to make us into a good team! :crazy:

[Nighthawk]

Homer parade?

What the **** are you talking about? Nobody is being a homer in this thread.

Oh, I forgot.

You prefer losing.

And you call DraftBoy arrogant?

At least he admits it.

When have I ever denied that I'm arrogant??? Are you still drunk from yesterday or just trying to make your point seem more important?

[DraftBoy]

When have I ever denied that I'm arrogant??? Are you still drunk from yesterday or just trying to make your point seem more important?

When have you admitted it?

[Nighthawk]

When have you admitted it?

All the time...I'm always stating that I always think I'm right...where have you been? The difference is, when I'm finally proven wrong, I actually admit it.

[DraftBoy]

All the time...I'm always stating that I always think I'm right...where have you been? The difference is, when I'm finally proven wrong, I actually admit it.


Wow...Im no longer the worst!

[Nighthawk]

Wow...Im no longer the worst!

No, you still have that title...you never admit your wrong.

[DraftBoy]

No, you still have that title...you never admit your wrong.

Really? Why don't you look at the Brohm threads, or threads about Tavaris Jackson, also threads about W Bush, and a number of others. Just because you can't admit where you are wrong, does not mean we all can't.

And you're right Im still the most arrogant, you're more delusional.

[Nighthawk]

Really? Why don't you look at the Brohm threads, or threads about Tavaris Jackson, also threads about W Bush, and a number of others. Just because you can't admit where you are wrong, does not mean we all can't.

And you're right Im still the most arrogant, you're more delusional.

Who's delusional now??? You can even ask Lecter...I WILL admit I'm wrong when proven wrong. That is never a question.

[Dr. Lecter]

When have I ever denied that I'm arrogant??? Are you still drunk from yesterday or just trying to make your point seem more important?

Still drunk?

What are you talking about? You seem to like to throw around that accusation. For your information, I do not get drunk at games.

As for making my point important, it does that on its own.

[Dr. Lecter]

Are you serious??? There are more people on this board today that think everything is fine and we should hire Fewell as HC right now then I've ever seen! One win and everybody is assuming that all it takes is a poor DC getting promoted to make us into a good team! :crazy:

I don't see anybody saying everything is fine. Not one person. And I think I have seen one person suggest Fewell as HC right now.

Fact is, if he takes this roster to a 4-3 or a 5-2 record, he deserves serious consideration.

[Dr. Lecter]

No, you still have that title...you never admit your wrong.

You're.

Just sayin'

(Note:The above was a light hearted jab).

[justasportsfan]

Bills lose out the remainding games except...the colts game where we stop them from going 16-0. :ill:

[Nighthawk]

You're.

Just sayin'

(Note:The above was a light hearted jab).

Damn, my bad!

[Nighthawk]

Still drunk?

What are you talking about? You seem to like to throw around that accusation. For your information, I do not get drunk at games.

As for making my point important, it does that on its own.

Not really understanding your point here? When have I done this in the past? I'm being serious? If I did...it wasn't intended as hateful insinuation. I apologize if I offended you.

[Mad Bomber]

Are you serious??? There are more people on this board today that think everything is fine and we should hire Fewell as HC right now then I've ever seen! One win and everybody is assuming that all it takes is a poor DC getting promoted to make us into a good team! :crazy:
Are you reading the same threads that I am? I haven't seen a whole lot of sentiment (if any) that "everything is fine" and "we should hire Fewell as HC right now."

There have been some posts commenting - on the basis of observation - that it's refreshing to see some emotion and trying to instill a winning attitude. Those posts are more of an indictment of Jauron than a ringing endorsement for Fewell as next HC. I've seen a LOT more posts discussing Shanahan/Cowher, etc.

[Nighthawk]

Are you reading the same threads that I am? I haven't seen a whole lot of sentiment (if any) that "everything is fine" and "we should hire Fewell as HC right now."

There have been some posts commenting - on the basis of observation - that it's refreshing to see some emotion and trying to instill a winning attitude. Those posts are more of an indictment of Jauron than a ringing endorsement for Fewell as next HC. I've seen a LOT more posts discussing Shanahan/Cowher, etc.

I've seen a ton of people getting WAAAAYYYY to excited about this guy and it's kind of embarassing because what you say is true...it's more an indictment on Jauron then Fewell's ability. I just don't understand how some people can completely lose all rationale after one victory?

[Novacane]

I was never hoping we'd lose. Just not upset when we did.

[SquishDaFish]

I will NEVER root for losses NEVER!! The draft is a complete crapshoot so it really doesnt matter how high you pick. **** #1 picks have been busts. I rather this team rally together like a REAL TEAM and learn to win games. We have alot of young guys and thats what they need.

And then point #2 why all the hatred for Perry? Because hes a 1st timer? Because he was hired by Dickey? Maybe its the one thing hes done right?? Give the damn guy a chance maybe he will be a great Head Coach . Every coach starts somewhere. Give the guy some time see how he does. So far it seems he put a charge into our current roster. Guys are playing with some heart and passion now which is alot more then when Dickey was here.

[Ebenezer]

And the homer parade is in full effect after a win...pretty funny.

homer parade? did you root for them to lose to Miami?? You are not a Bills fan.

[Mad Bomber]

I was never hoping we'd lose. Just not upset when we did.
That pretty much sums up my feelings. After 40+ years, and especially after the last 10 years, I've become desensitized. A loss used to ruin my week; not any more. I'm always happy - and sometimes, like yesterday - surprised when they win. I'll never again root for them to lose - that last happened in the late '60s so we could get OJ.

[Stewie]

Still drunk?

What are you talking about? You seem to like to throw around that accusation. For your information, I do not get drunk at games.

As for making my point important, it does that on its own.

He doesn't get drunk at games cause he's drunk when he arrives!

I'm here all year!

[jimbohastle51]

even if we squeak by the jets and chiefs we wont beat atlanta, new england or indianapolis so 6-10 at best. i hope we dont screw up on our next head coach hire.

[Ebenezer]

even if we squeak by the jets and chiefs we wont beat atlanta, new england or indianapolis so 6-10 at best. i hope we dont screw up on our next head coach hire.
Atlanta just lost Ryan and Turner...who knows how long...and the Indi game may mean nothing...dare I say.....nope, won't do it...

[mysticsoto]

I've seen a ton of people getting WAAAAYYYY to excited about this guy and it's kind of embarassing because what you say is true...it's more an indictment on Jauron then Fewell's ability. I just don't understand how some people can completely lose all rationale after one victory?

Dude...people are excited b'cse a) we won...and compared to how we had been looking lately, any win was looking doubtful b) we looked pretty good - we attacked, they're getting TO more involved, we didn't lay down in the 4th and collapse, etc and probably the most important...c) we beat MIAMI!!! If you don't care about the win, fine. But let US enjoy it...

[BoyILuvLoznStupidly]

Dude...people are excited b'cse a) we won...and compared to how we had been looking lately, any win was looking doubtful b) we looked pretty good - we attacked, they're getting TO more involved, we didn't lay down in the 4th and collapse, etc and probably the most important...c) we beat MIAMI!!! If you don't care about the win, fine. But let US enjoy it...

Now this I will agree with you on

[Nighthawk]

homer parade? did you root for them to lose to Miami?? You are not a Bills fan.

People getting excited and thinking that Fewell is the answer is the definition of homer parade...if that is you, then I was talking to you. If not, then ignore. I wasn't rooting for a loss, but I wouldn't have been crushed if they did. It was a meaningless victory...they're not making the playoffs...I want a new regime in here and don't want anything to do with the old one. How does that make me not a fan?

[SquishDaFish]

People getting excited and thinking that Fewell is the answer is the definition of homer parade...if that is you, then I was talking to you. If not, then ignore. I wasn't rooting for a loss, but I wouldn't have been crushed if they did. It was a meaningless victory...they're not making the playoffs...I want a new regime in here and don't want anything to do with the old one. How does that make me not a fan?

Why not just be happy that Ralph acc made a change and give Perry a chance. Hes got this team going in the right direction. He put a charge in them

[DraftBoy]

People getting excited and thinking that Fewell is the answer is the definition of homer parade...if that is you, then I was talking to you. If not, then ignore. I wasn't rooting for a loss, but I wouldn't have been crushed if they did. It was a meaningless victory...they're not making the playoffs...I want a new regime in here and don't want anything to do with the old one. How does that make me not a fan?


What do you want the Bills to do on Thursday? Win or Lose?

[billistic]

No. I'm still hoping for wins. Been disappointed 7 times so far, and there's still room for plenty more.

Hoping that Modrak and his droogies get a higher draft pick is sort of like hoping that an amateur lobotomy produces intelligence.

[Nighthawk]

No. I'm still hoping for wins. Been disappointed 7 times so far, and there's still room for plenty more.

Hoping that Modrak and his droogies get a higher draft pick is sort of like hoping that an amateur lobotomy produces intelligence.

The assumption and trust me, that's all it is...is that losing would bring a complete overhaul of the football department. I'm OK with that...in fact, I'd much rather have that then a few meaningless victories. I've been waiting too long for them to get rid of Dickey and finally rebuild this football department. If them winning means they keep Fewell and not getting rid of the losers, Guy and Modrak and not bring in a quality football GM, then I'd much rather suffer through a few more losses.

[Typ0]

The assumption and trust me, that's all it is...is that losing would bring a complete overhaul of the football department. I'm OK with that...in fact, I'd much rather have that then a few meaningless victories. I've been waiting too long for them to get rid of Dickey and finally rebuild this football department. If them winning means they keep Fewell and not getting rid of the losers, Guy and Modrak and not bring in a quality football GM, then I'd much rather suffer through a few more losses.


Unfortunatelly, I'd say their currently interviewing candidates for the coaching position at least should indicate the upper guys you are talking about aren't going anywhere.