So easy to build a winner

[The Juice Is Loose]

Sorry, but it's easy. Its just amazing that half of the head coaches and GM's out there have no f'n clue. Here is an outline of my off season plan.

- Hire Russ Grimm

- Switch to 3-4

- Subtractions: Josh Reed, Trent Edwards, Chris Kelsay, John McCargo, Ashton Youbody, Ryan Denney, and my surprise cut: Kawika "Has anybody missed me?" Mitchell, "The Dereks" at TE

- Resign: TO for 2 years.

(note: i'm assuming that the higher profile guys will either get franchised or signed long term by their current teams. however if guys like kyle orton or brandon marshall actually hit the market i'd go gangbusters for them)

- Free agents: (in order of preference)
QB - Kyle Orton, Kellen Clemons, David Carr, Brodie Croyle, Daunte Culpepper
OL - Jahri Evans (probably wont hit the market), Jeremy Trueblood, Nick Cole, Rex Hadnot
WR - (there are a lot of potential big names at WR. i'm going to assume B. Marshall and V. Jackson don't hit the market) Mark Clayton, Antonio Bryant, Kevin Walter
DL - Johnny Jolly, Marcus Spears,
LB - D'Qwell Jackson, Derrick Johnson

Heading to the draft: We currently would pick 8th so I'll assume that's where we go. Hopefully sooner. Heading into the draft I would package Aaron Schobel and a 3rd to a team in need of a DE for a 4-3. This should be doable, let's just say for now that Arizone takes the bait and gives us their later first rounder.

Heres my draft:
1A - Russell Okung OT
1B - Jermaine Gresham TE
2 - Best DL or CB available
3 - BPA
4 - BPA
5 - BPA etc etc

So here is what my roster would look like. I'm praying Brohm could win the QB competition:

QB Brian Brohm, Kellen Clemons, Ryan Fitzpatrick
RB Marshawn Lynch, Fred Jackson, (I would seek out either a massive power back or a super explosive speed back in the 3rd or 4th rounds for our extra RB)
WR Terrell Owens, Lee Evans, Mark Clayton, Domenik Hixon, James Hardy, Steve Johnson
TE Jermaine Gresham, Shawn Nelson, Jon Stupar
LT Russell Okung, Demetrius Bell
LG Andy Levitre,
C Geoff Hangartner (possibly upgrade C next season)
RG Eric Wood (i pray he comes back 100%)
RT Trueblood or Brad Butler

OLB Aaron Maybin
MLB D'Qwell Jackson
MLB Paul Poz
OLB (can't fill EVERY hole in one season)
DE Johnny Jolly
DT Stroud, Williams plus a draft pick
DE (can't fill EVERY hole in one season)
CB McKelvin, Florence/McGee, Corner, Lankster
FS Byrd
SS Whitner

Wilson, and Scott have earned a spot on my football team, one way or another.

What do you guys think? The reason I don't think we could fill BOTH the DE spots and BOTH the OLB spots in one season is because I'd be concerned with the spending. That'd be a pretty active off season. Obviously I wouldn't sign all of those free agents listed, that is my order of preference. Also, we may be able to fill OB in the 3rd or 4th round in the draft. I would also assess if Kelsay could be servicable as DE in a 3-4.

[OpIv37]

Stroud or Williams are NOT 3-4 DT's, period. If we switch to a 3-4, then NT has to be a #1 priority, right up there with LT.

And I don't see us winning with any of those QB's.

[ddaryl]

yeah it so easy


what a rediculous statement. Even if it was easy then it would come down to those who could build better winners then the rest which makes those who built easy winners losers

[trapezeus]

kyle orton is the best of the bunch and he is proving to be a guy who's beaten up on lesser teams. we had that in edwards. ride with brohm, build the lines. next year is another wash, 2011 draft a legit QB.

that's how you'll get your winner. but since Ralph has gone quiet since the whole toronto game, i'll assume he's going to keep modrak and co, and let them ruin yet another round of draft choices, pick a couple meaningless washed up free agents who wouldn't have landed anywhere else, and then scourred the Orchard Park high school for practice squaders to take over key positions like linebacker and offensive line. Therefore 2010 will be a bust but we'll still need a LT, LB and DL.

Things never change.

[The Juice Is Loose]

Stroud or Williams are NOT 3-4 DT's, period. If we switch to a 3-4, then NT has to be a #1 priority, right up there with LT.

And I don't see us winning with any of those QB's.

They wouldn't be a permanent solution, but we won't be able to get our hands on a DT that would be able to fill that roll this season.

I feel that a 3-4 will still suit us better if we could add Jolly or Spears and another ILB like Jackson.

Obviously if we could get Suh or McCoy in the first round, I would, but IDK if they'll be there when we pick.

I just meant with my thread title that sometimes things that are common sense are common sense because its obvious. We're too smart for our own good, we've always seemed to feel as an organization that if it's obvious, it can't be right (IE Drafting Ngata)

[The Juice Is Loose]

My point is, we have holes, we can fill them easily in 2 years.

I don't think any of us would really expect, no matter who came in as GM or coach, for them to be able to make us a "Winner" in 1 season.

But, by moving Maybin to OLB, adding Dqwell Jackson and Johnny Jolly, drafting Okung and Gresham, those are 4 of our biggest issues, tackled in one off season.

We'd be better with that than we are this year.

[trapezeus]

don't you find it odd that the defense is the supposedly better part of our team right now, but that we need to totally revamp the entire thing. We need a new scheme and new personnel on the front 7. almost in every spot. the people we have aren't great, just capable. POZ, Stroud and Schobel. Everyone else in the front seven needs to go.

Then the offense needs an LT and a QB, the two most important parts of any team.

This team is very far away from winning. God saving coach and GM included, this will be very hard to turn around. The bills season may say 5-11 on paper but in reality its a 1-15 team. Has one game other than the miami game truly been an entertaining game where we outplayed a team for an entire 60 minutes?

[OpIv37]

They wouldn't be a permanent solution, but we won't be able to get our hands on a DT that would be able to fill that roll this season.

I feel that a 3-4 will still suit us better if we could add Jolly or Spears and another ILB like Jackson.

Obviously if we could get Suh or McCoy in the first round, I would, but IDK if they'll be there when we pick.

I just meant with my thread title that sometimes things that are common sense are common sense because its obvious. We're too smart for our own good, we've always seemed to feel as an organization that if it's obvious, it can't be right (IE Drafting Ngata)

I don't think building a winner is easy, but it's certainly easier than this org makes it. I understand what you are saying about not filling every hole in the off-season, but the 3-4 basically revolves around a monster NT who can wreak havoc in the middle of the line. If we are going to make the switch, I'd rather get the NT now and sacrifice somewhere else for 2010 than the other way around.

[DraftBoy]

Do you really think there is a GM dumb enough to trade a first round pick for Aaron Schobel and a 3rd?

I mean seriously? That doesn't even work in Madden.

[The Juice Is Loose]

don't you find it odd that the defense is the supposedly better part of our team right now, but that we need to totally revamp the entire thing. We need a new scheme and new personnel on the front 7. almost in every spot. the people we have aren't great, just capable. POZ, Stroud and Schobel. Everyone else in the front seven needs to go.

Then the offense needs an LT and a QB, the two most important parts of any team.

This team is very far away from winning. God saving coach and GM included, this will be very hard to turn around. The bills season may say 5-11 on paper but in reality its a 1-15 team. Has one game other than the miami game truly been an entertaining game where we outplayed a team for an entire 60 minutes?

LOL WEEK 1...but for 59 minutes.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Sorry, but it's easy. Its just amazing that half of the head coaches and GM's out there have no f'n clue. Here is an outline of my off season plan.

- Hire Russ Grimm

- Switch to 3-4

- Subtractions: Josh Reed, Trent Edwards, Chris Kelsay, John McCargo, Ashton Youbody, Ryan Denney, and my surprise cut: Kawika "Has anybody missed me?" Mitchell, "The Dereks" at TE

- Resign: TO for 2 years.

(note: i'm assuming that the higher profile guys will either get franchised or signed long term by their current teams. however if guys like kyle orton or brandon marshall actually hit the market i'd go gangbusters for them)

- Free agents: (in order of preference)
QB - Kyle Orton, Kellen Clemons, David Carr, Brodie Croyle, Daunte Culpepper
OL - Jahri Evans (probably wont hit the market), Jeremy Trueblood, Nick Cole, Rex Hadnot
WR - (there are a lot of potential big names at WR. i'm going to assume B. Marshall and V. Jackson don't hit the market) Mark Clayton, Antonio Bryant, Kevin Walter
DL - Johnny Jolly, Marcus Spears,
LB - D'Qwell Jackson, Derrick Johnson

Heading to the draft: We currently would pick 8th so I'll assume that's where we go. Hopefully sooner. Heading into the draft I would package Aaron Schobel and a 3rd to a team in need of a DE for a 4-3. This should be doable, let's just say for now that Arizone takes the bait and gives us their later first rounder.

Heres my draft:
1A - Russell Okung OT
1B - Jermaine Gresham TE
2 - Best DL or CB available
3 - BPA
4 - BPA
5 - BPA etc etc

So here is what my roster would look like. I'm praying Brohm could win the QB competition:

QB Brian Brohm, Kellen Clemons, Ryan Fitzpatrick
RB Marshawn Lynch, Fred Jackson, (I would seek out either a massive power back or a super explosive speed back in the 3rd or 4th rounds for our extra RB)
WR Terrell Owens, Lee Evans, Mark Clayton, Domenik Hixon, James Hardy, Steve Johnson
TE Jermaine Gresham, Shawn Nelson, Jon Stupar
LT Russell Okung, Demetrius Bell
LG Andy Levitre,
C Geoff Hangartner (possibly upgrade C next season)
RG Eric Wood (i pray he comes back 100%)
RT Trueblood or Brad Butler

OLB Aaron Maybin
MLB D'Qwell Jackson
MLB Paul Poz
OLB (can't fill EVERY hole in one season)
DE Johnny Jolly
DT Stroud, Williams plus a draft pick
DE (can't fill EVERY hole in one season)
CB McKelvin, Florence/McGee, Corner, Lankster
FS Byrd
SS Whitner

Wilson, and Scott have earned a spot on my football team, one way or another.

What do you guys think? The reason I don't think we could fill BOTH the DE spots and BOTH the OLB spots in one season is because I'd be concerned with the spending. That'd be a pretty active off season. Obviously I wouldn't sign all of those free agents listed, that is my order of preference. Also, we may be able to fill OB in the 3rd or 4th round in the draft. I would also assess if Kelsay could be servicable as DE in a 3-4.
Why trade Schobel for a pick that nets us a TE that creates another hole at a more important position. Nelson is actually looking decent too.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Do you really think there is a GM dumb enough to trade a first round pick for Aaron Schobel and a 3rd?

I mean seriously? That doesn't even work in Madden.
that too

[justasportsfan]

kyle orton is the best of the bunch and he is proving to be a guy who's beaten up on lesser teams. we had that in edwards. ride with brohm, build the lines. next year is another wash, 2011 draft a legit QB.

.
Orton beat NE, SD and Dallas.

[trapezeus]

NE a dying team...was that game in Denver, because the pats still haven't won on the road yet.

Dallas - a sketchy team that is inconsistent

And SD - a team that notoriously turns it on later in the season.

bring him in if you want him. i don't think he's going to do much better behind this line than anyone else. also if orton is let go, what does that say about the GM and coach to push one guy out, bring another guy in and then let him go the following year?

[justasportsfan]

NE a dying team...was that game in Denver, because the pats still haven't won on the road yet.

Dallas - a sketchy team that is inconsistent

And SD - a team that notoriously turns it on later in the season.

bring him in if you want him. i don't think he's going to do much better behind this line than anyone else. also if orton is let go, what does that say about the GM and coach to push one guy out, bring another guy in and then let him go the following year?


doesn't matter. Denver is rebuilding. Orton is playing in his first year with a new team with a new first time HC. He's doing a very good job.

I didn't say bring him in . Just that your opinion of him is not acurate.

[The Juice Is Loose]

don't you find it odd that the defense is the supposedly better part of our team right now, but that we need to totally revamp the entire thing. We need a new scheme and new personnel on the front 7. almost in every spot. the people we have aren't great, just capable. POZ, Stroud and Schobel. Everyone else in the front seven needs to go.

Then the offense needs an LT and a QB, the two most important parts of any team.

This team is very far away from winning. God saving coach and GM included, this will be very hard to turn around. The bills season may say 5-11 on paper but in reality its a 1-15 team. Has one game other than the miami game truly been an entertaining game where we outplayed a team for an entire 60 minutes?

LOL WEEK 1...but for 59 minutes.

[kernowboy]

For me, its more a mental attitude than a player ability situation.

With a HC like Russ Grimm and aggressive Defensive and Offensive coordinators, change should not be so radical.

Switching to a 3-4 will be expensive, either through free agent acquisitions or using up valuable high draft picks where they need to be spent elsewhere.

So, stick with the 4-3

Trade Maybin and R2 to the 49ers for a R1 - its not giving up on him as factoring he might succeed as a 3-4 OLB, new coaches bring new ideas, the 49ers lack OLB depth etc.

2010 draft

1a. Bradford QB
1b. Campbell LT
3. Arthur Jones DT
4. Sean Lee ILB
5a. (from Detroit for Simpson) Naaman Roosevelt WR
5b. James Starks RB
6a. Corey Peters DT
6b. Greg Middleton LE
7. Cory Jackson FB

A. Resign either Owens or Reed
B. With two new tackles in the rotation we should be able to keep Williams, and Stroud fresh
C. Work in to the rotation, Ellis and Middleton. Cut either Denney or Kelsay loose
D. Use the camp and pre-season to determine who is the best MLB from Mitchell, Posluzny or Lee
E. Trade Lynch going into pre-season as someone will pay more for a RB if they have injuries to their roster, maybe even a R2
F. Devleop Meredith as a G

Come 2011, do not resign Whitner unless he has an exceptional year

2011 draft
R1. WR to replace Owens, like Dyrell Roberts or Ryan Broyles
R2a. (for Lynch) a TE like Rob Gronkowski
R2b. a MLB like Alex Wujciak, 6ft3 and 255lbs to move Poz and Lee outside
R3. S like Davonte Shannon or see if we can nab a DE like Ryan Kerrigan


The best teams are built through the draft. If we find an exceptional deal in free agency then we should pull the trigger, but I would rather a draft team builder like Eric deCosta as the GM

QB: Bradford, Brohm
WR: Evans, Roosevelt
WR: Owens, Hardy
RB: F Jackson, Starks
FB: C Jackson
LT: Campbell, Bell
LG: Levitre
C: Hangartner
RG: Wood, Meredith
RT: Butler, Scott
TE: Nelson, Fine
K: Liandell

RE: Schobel, Ellis
RT: Stroud; Sp Johnson
LT: Williams; Jones
LE: Kelsay; Middleton
SLB; Posluzny; Palmer
MLB; Lee
WLB; Mitchell; Harris
RCB; Florence, McKelvin
LCB; McGee, Corner
FS; Byrd, Wilson
SS; Whitner, Scott
P. Moorman

[kernowboy]

Heading into the draft I would package Aaron Schobel and a 3rd to a team in need of a DE for a 4-3. This should be doable, let's just say for now that Arizone takes the bait and gives us their later first rounder.



Arizona play a 3-4 defence

[Philagape]

Do you really think there is a GM dumb enough to trade a first round pick for Aaron Schobel and a 3rd?

I mean seriously? That doesn't even work in Madden.

OMG he said THAT? (I have him on ignore)





OMG.





That's the kind of thing I'd make up to make fun of homer trade ideas.





Like, seriously, OMG.

[kernowboy]

OMG he said THAT? (I have him on ignore)





OMG.





That's the kind of thing I'd make up to make fun of homer trade ideas.





Like, seriously, OMG.

Why trade our sole productive DE?

[BillsWin]

You want to ship off Schobel? Here I thought he was having a great season. :idunno:

[The Juice Is Loose]

You want to ship off Schobel? Here I thought he was having a great season. :idunno:

Which is why I'd want to trade him. If we switched to 3-4.

My point is if a coach wants to go 3-4 he's gonna go 3-4, regardless of what we already have in the cupboard.

He's had a solid season, may be one of his last, that's why I'd sell on him right now. I've seen crazier trades than that.

[kernowboy]

Which is why I'd want to trade him. If we switched to 3-4.

My point is if a coach wants to go 3-4 he's gonna go 3-4, regardless of what we already have in the cupboard.

He's had a solid season, may be one of his last, that's why I'd sell on him right now. I've seen crazier trades than that.

Unfortunately not every owner is Al Davis

[The Juice Is Loose]

Ok, we stay 4-3

Keep Schobel, trade Maybin. I don't see how you guys think we can get a 1st for Maybin, with his 0 career sacks and WR body frame. But whatever, I'm crazy for thinking a guy who went to 2 pro bowls is more valuable than a guy who has never really done anything, not even really in college.

But I'm crazy.

Here's what I'd do if we go 4-3.

Get rid of Maybin, keep Kelsay and Schobel on the roster

Sign Tony Brown, DT Tenn
Sign Ray Edwards, DE Minn

Move Poz to OLB, still cut Mitchell because he sucks, get D'Qwell Jackson to play MLB and add another OLB in the draft. (Let Palmer and Harris compete as well)

Its still simple. It's still common sense. But we certainly won't get squat for Maybin if we stay 4-3. Teams won't give us anything, because they'll know our back is against the wall as he's useless in a 4-3.

[trapezeus]

doesn't matter. Denver is rebuilding. Orton is playing in his first year with a new team with a new first time HC. He's doing a very good job.

I didn't say bring him in . Just that your opinion of him is not acurate.

how can you say that as he's squandering the early season results? We did that last year and you hated our QB for doing so. Orton is essentially traveling the bills 2008 road.

I realize you aren't asking for him to come in, but he is a qb we've already had....several times.

[The Juice Is Loose]

Why trade Schobel for a pick that nets us a TE that creates another hole at a more important position. Nelson is actually looking decent too.

Nelson, to me, is a big WR. He's also proven to be pretty easily injurred, as he's seemingly always dinged up and he's only been here 1 year.

[BillsWin]

Which is why I'd want to trade him. If we switched to 3-4.

My point is if a coach wants to go 3-4 he's gonna go 3-4, regardless of what we already have in the cupboard.

He's had a solid season, may be one of his last, that's why I'd sell on him right now. I've seen crazier trades than that.

It makes sense because he is older. I just hate to see talent leave.. :sigh:

[The Juice Is Loose]

OMG he said THAT? (I have him on ignore)


OMG.


That's the kind of thing I'd make up to make fun of homer trade ideas.


Like, seriously, OMG.

Another thread critic. Nothing to add to the conversation but 13 year old girl text code.

Like, omg.

[justasportsfan]

how can you say that as he's squandering the early season results? We did that last year and you hated our QB for doing so. Orton is essentially traveling the bills 2008 road.

I realize you aren't asking for him to come in, but he is a qb we've already had....several times.

He's had more success with less. He's useless without a HC like McDaniels but he 's above average with him. Can't compare him to Trent. Not even close.

[CoolBreeze]

Sorry, but it's easy. Its just amazing that half of the head coaches and GM's out there have no f'n clue. Here is an outline of my off season plan.

- Hire Russ Grimm

- Switch to 3-4

- Subtractions: Josh Reed, Trent Edwards, Chris Kelsay, John McCargo, Ashton Youbody, Ryan Denney, and my surprise cut: Kawika "Has anybody missed me?" Mitchell, "The Dereks" at TE

- Resign: TO for 2 years.

(note: i'm assuming that the higher profile guys will either get franchised or signed long term by their current teams. however if guys like kyle orton or brandon marshall actually hit the market i'd go gangbusters for them)

- Free agents: (in order of preference)
QB - Kyle Orton, Kellen Clemons, David Carr, Brodie Croyle, Daunte Culpepper
OL - Jahri Evans (probably wont hit the market), Jeremy Trueblood, Nick Cole, Rex Hadnot
WR - (there are a lot of potential big names at WR. i'm going to assume B. Marshall and V. Jackson don't hit the market) Mark Clayton, Antonio Bryant, Kevin Walter
DL - Johnny Jolly, Marcus Spears,
LB - D'Qwell Jackson, Derrick Johnson

Heading to the draft: We currently would pick 8th so I'll assume that's where we go. Hopefully sooner. Heading into the draft I would package Aaron Schobel and a 3rd to a team in need of a DE for a 4-3. This should be doable, let's just say for now that Arizone takes the bait and gives us their later first rounder.

Heres my draft:
1A - Russell Okung OT
1B - Jermaine Gresham TE
2 - Best DL or CB available
3 - BPA
4 - BPA
5 - BPA etc etc

So here is what my roster would look like. I'm praying Brohm could win the QB competition:

QB Brian Brohm, Kellen Clemons, Ryan Fitzpatrick
RB Marshawn Lynch, Fred Jackson, (I would seek out either a massive power back or a super explosive speed back in the 3rd or 4th rounds for our extra RB)
WR Terrell Owens, Lee Evans, Mark Clayton, Domenik Hixon, James Hardy, Steve Johnson
TE Jermaine Gresham, Shawn Nelson, Jon Stupar
LT Russell Okung, Demetrius Bell
LG Andy Levitre,
C Geoff Hangartner (possibly upgrade C next season)
RG Eric Wood (i pray he comes back 100%)
RT Trueblood or Brad Butler

OLB Aaron Maybin
MLB D'Qwell Jackson
MLB Paul Poz
OLB (can't fill EVERY hole in one season)
DE Johnny Jolly
DT Stroud, Williams plus a draft pick
DE (can't fill EVERY hole in one season)
CB McKelvin, Florence/McGee, Corner, Lankster
FS Byrd
SS Whitner

Wilson, and Scott have earned a spot on my football team, one way or another.

What do you guys think? The reason I don't think we could fill BOTH the DE spots and BOTH the OLB spots in one season is because I'd be concerned with the spending. That'd be a pretty active off season. Obviously I wouldn't sign all of those free agents listed, that is my order of preference. Also, we may be able to fill OB in the 3rd or 4th round in the draft. I would also assess if Kelsay could be servicable as DE in a 3-4.

No problem with hiring Russ Grimm.

As far as your cuts.. I think Derek Schouman is a pretty good tight end. but
agree to disagree.

TO doesn't want to be here.

What is so different about Mark Clayton and Josh Reed? They are both the 3rd or 4th options on bad teams.

You assume Johnny Jolly would want to leave a playoff team for Buffalo. Money isn't everything to everyone.

Yould package Aaron Schobel with a 3rd, 4th,5th and 6th, and nobody will give a 1st rd pick, for an old, brokedown player like Schobel. He hasn't stayed healthy in 3yrs. I like him, I just don't think he has much left.

What makes you feel that Jermaine Gresham is worth trading players and draft picks for? Is he that much better than Schouman or Nelson, in the Bills offense?

As far as your roster looks... I'd like to know what is the difference between Brohm, Clemens, and Fitzpatrick? Not one is talented enough to be a starting QB. I would like to see Brohm play. But why have Clemens and Fitzpatrick? I'd have a rookie instead of one of them.

Who is the massive power back your thinking of? Who is the super explosive speed back? There is only 1 Chris Johnson. Personally, I would send Marshawn packing. He doesn't show any desire.

Why have Domenik Hixon? Is he an upgrade over Roscoe Parish in returns?
He's not a better receiver than Steve Johnson, so he wouldn't be utilized in the receiving game.

As far as your defense. I would love to see the 3-4. But it all starts with the Nose Tackle. Marcus Stroud and Kyle Williams aren't it. Without a quality NT, the defense is worthless. If switching to it, then Terrence Cody (Alabama) should be your #1 pick. I actually feel that Keith Ellison would be better in the 3-4, because he could utilize his speed better.

Last but not least, Whitner should be selling beer in the stands. He can't cover and he takes bad angles. I think Scott is much better.

[trapezeus]

He's had more success with less. He's useless without a HC like McDaniels but he 's above average with him. Can't compare him to Trent. Not even close.

he has less? he has an offensive line. This is your thesis. you need a line, you need a coach. He has both, we have neither.

He's marginally better than QB's from 2001-current. He heads over, what is the expectation, that he'll hold on without protection? i just don't see that happening.

[The Juice Is Loose]

No problem with hiring Russ Grimm.

As far as your cuts.. I think Derek Schouman is a pretty good tight end. but
agree to disagree.

TO doesn't want to be here.

What is so different about Mark Clayton and Josh Reed? They are both the 3rd or 4th options on bad teams.

You assume Johnny Jolly would want to leave a playoff team for Buffalo. Money isn't everything to everyone.

Yould package Aaron Schobel with a 3rd, 4th,5th and 6th, and nobody will give a 1st rd pick, for an old, brokedown player like Schobel. He hasn't stayed healthy in 3yrs. I like him, I just don't think he has much left.

What makes you feel that Jermaine Gresham is worth trading players and draft picks for? Is he that much better than Schouman or Nelson, in the Bills offense?

As far as your roster looks... I'd like to know what is the difference between Brohm, Clemens, and Fitzpatrick? Not one is talented enough to be a starting QB. I would like to see Brohm play. But why have Clemens and Fitzpatrick? I'd have a rookie instead of one of them.

Who is the massive power back your thinking of? Who is the super explosive speed back? There is only 1 Chris Johnson. Personally, I would send Marshawn packing. He doesn't show any desire.

Why have Domenik Hixon? Is he an upgrade over Roscoe Parish in returns?
He's not a better receiver than Steve Johnson, so he wouldn't be utilized in the receiving game.

As far as your defense. I would love to see the 3-4. But it all starts with the Nose Tackle. Marcus Stroud and Kyle Williams aren't it. Without a quality NT, the defense is worthless. If switching to it, then Terrence Cody (Alabama) should be your #1 pick. I actually feel that Keith Ellison would be better in the 3-4, because he could utilize his speed better.

Last but not least, Whitner should be selling beer in the stands. He can't cover and he takes bad angles. I think Scott is much better.

Thanks for the comments. Without just insulting me. I see some of your points.

Schobel really has only been injured twice. He's played every game this year and if we're gonna trade him or Maybin I'd say Schobel has more value. The only way to find out is to see. We don't know what the market holds. Maybe not a first, but we've gotten into the first with seemingly less before.

Schouman has never done anything, now he has a reconstructed knee.

Brohm and Clemons have never had a fair opportunity, so none of us know what kind of talent they have. I bet that they can be as good as any QB's in the draft this year. This isn't my QB of the future, its a stop gap until a potential franchise QB is get-able.

The Packers have a bunch of players up for contract and a lot of people are expecting Jolly to be the odd man out. I have backup options for each of the players I signed.

Clayton is better than Josh Reed, believe that. More athletic, bigger, better.

Hixon is making plays and scoring TD's. Roscoe can't run a route or field a punt. He hasn't made one big play since week 3 of last year.

As far as the backs, I'm not extremely familiar with this draft class. You guys who want Marshawn gone are not going to get that. hes not going to get traded, and until this one off year was our best and most popular player. Over the last 2 weeks he's got a wicked per carry avg. And if the line is an excuse for anybody it should be the backs. As far as his motivation, I'd probably be jaded since that Jets game last year too.

Im just throwing things out there for conversation. We dont know who will be available when or where, I'm just giving examples that its pretty common sense that to build a strong team, you need to build in the trenches first, skill positions 2nd.

Given enough time, and a good running game, QB's will look a lot better. Thats a fact.

[justasportsfan]

he has less? he has an offensive line. This is your thesis. you need a line, you need a coach. He has both, we have neither.

He's marginally better than QB's from 2001-current. He heads over, what is the expectation, that he'll hold on without protection? i just don't see that happening.
he didn't have weapons while in Chicago. He went 10-5 in games that he started, including an eight-game winning streak after a 1-3 start inspite being a rookie thrown to the wolves . He is serviceable. He's better than a Dilfer and can only get better . I'm not saying he's a franchise player but he can get the job done.

[trapezeus]

he also had a legendary defense that single handedly won games in chicago. Look at buffalo's defense now. if the secondary wasn't picking off the ball 25 times, imagine what our bending and bending over defense would be like.

I'm just saying, brohm is the guy who's being elected to be killed next year. we get him a LT and get yet another WR through free agency and watch Lee evans and crew do nothing. Evans is a waste, but the least of our concerns. Once the line is established and running can happen consistently, then getting a real QB who can actually lead and win games on his own if need be becomes a priority.

[justasportsfan]

he also had a legendary defense that single handedly won games in chicago. Look at buffalo's defense now. if the secondary wasn't picking off the ball 25 times, imagine what our bending and bending over defense would be like.

I'm just saying, brohm is the guy who's being elected to be killed next year. we get him a LT and get yet another WR through free agency and watch Lee evans and crew do nothing. Evans is a waste, but the least of our concerns. Once the line is established and running can happen consistently, then getting a real QB who can actually lead and win games on his own if need be becomes a priority.


Not even Jerry rice at his prime could do anything here. TO was a beast wherever he went util he came here. Our wr's are not the problem. It was the coaches and the OL these coaches built.

[The Juice Is Loose]

as to my hixon comment: he just had a 60 yard catch and run this past week in which he broke 2 tackles and took it to the house on a tough Philly defense.

That alone was bigger than any play Parrish has ever made.

If you don't think Hixon would be a big improvement over Parrish, your nuts.

[trapezeus]

i guy who could reliably catch a punt and fall forward for 2 yards would be an improvement over parrish.

[tampabay25690]

Sorry, but it's easy. Its just amazing that half of the head coaches and GM's out there have no f'n clue. Here is an outline of my off season plan.

- Hire Russ Grimm

- Switch to 3-4

- Subtractions: Josh Reed, Trent Edwards, Chris Kelsay, John McCargo, Ashton Youbody, Ryan Denney, and my surprise cut: Kawika "Has anybody missed me?" Mitchell, "The Dereks" at TE

- Resign: TO for 2 years.

(note: i'm assuming that the higher profile guys will either get franchised or signed long term by their current teams. however if guys like kyle orton or brandon marshall actually hit the market i'd go gangbusters for them)

- Free agents: (in order of preference)
QB - Kyle Orton, Kellen Clemons, David Carr, Brodie Croyle, Daunte Culpepper
OL - Jahri Evans (probably wont hit the market), Jeremy Trueblood, Nick Cole, Rex Hadnot
WR - (there are a lot of potential big names at WR. i'm going to assume B. Marshall and V. Jackson don't hit the market) Mark Clayton, Antonio Bryant, Kevin Walter
DL - Johnny Jolly, Marcus Spears,
LB - D'Qwell Jackson, Derrick Johnson

Heading to the draft: We currently would pick 8th so I'll assume that's where we go. Hopefully sooner. Heading into the draft I would package Aaron Schobel and a 3rd to a team in need of a DE for a 4-3. This should be doable, let's just say for now that Arizone takes the bait and gives us their later first rounder.

Heres my draft:
1A - Russell Okung OT
1B - Jermaine Gresham TE
2 - Best DL or CB available
3 - BPA
4 - BPA
5 - BPA etc etc

So here is what my roster would look like. I'm praying Brohm could win the QB competition:

QB Brian Brohm, Kellen Clemons, Ryan Fitzpatrick
RB Marshawn Lynch, Fred Jackson, (I would seek out either a massive power back or a super explosive speed back in the 3rd or 4th rounds for our extra RB)
WR Terrell Owens, Lee Evans, Mark Clayton, Domenik Hixon, James Hardy, Steve Johnson
TE Jermaine Gresham, Shawn Nelson, Jon Stupar
LT Russell Okung, Demetrius Bell
LG Andy Levitre,
C Geoff Hangartner (possibly upgrade C next season)
RG Eric Wood (i pray he comes back 100%)
RT Trueblood or Brad Butler

OLB Aaron Maybin
MLB D'Qwell Jackson
MLB Paul Poz
OLB (can't fill EVERY hole in one season)
DE Johnny Jolly
DT Stroud, Williams plus a draft pick
DE (can't fill EVERY hole in one season)
CB McKelvin, Florence/McGee, Corner, Lankster
FS Byrd
SS Whitner

Wilson, and Scott have earned a spot on my football team, one way or another.

What do you guys think? The reason I don't think we could fill BOTH the DE spots and BOTH the OLB spots in one season is because I'd be concerned with the spending. That'd be a pretty active off season. Obviously I wouldn't sign all of those free agents listed, that is my order of preference. Also, we may be able to fill OB in the 3rd or 4th round in the draft. I would also assess if Kelsay could be servicable as DE in a 3-4.

Wow I wish I had the time to figure out all the stuff that won't happen..

[Philagape]

Why trade our sole productive DE?

Actually I was looking at it from the other team's POV

[DraftBoy]

Which is why I'd want to trade him. If we switched to 3-4.

My point is if a coach wants to go 3-4 he's gonna go 3-4, regardless of what we already have in the cupboard.

He's had a solid season, may be one of his last, that's why I'd sell on him right now. I've seen crazier trades than that.


Name a few.

[Mr. Pink]

Wow I wish I had the time to figure out all the stuff that won't happen..


You don't need that much time. It can be summed up very quickly and succinctly.

None of it.

[The Juice Is Loose]

You don't need that much time. It can be summed up very quickly and succinctly.

None of it.

Ooohhhh your hurting my feelings so bad.

Rather than just make mindless one liners, why not make a quick outline on what YOU would do, since you know everything.

But you won't. You might post some old quote or make some smart ass comment. But you won't actually say anything constructive. Period.

[Mr. Pink]

You have zero idea who's going to hit the FA market to make a thread like this at this time.

D'Qwell Jackson for example very likely will be kept in Cleveland, after all, last season he led the NFL in tackles.

[The Juice Is Loose]

Hey man, I was going off a list of guys whose contracts are running out. I said some guys may not hit the market. Other guys may. I went for guys in the middle grades off the list, obviously they might not hit the market.

Fact is, in general, you could acquire some comparable players at those positions. It doesn't seem to be a monumental task to assemble a solid roster. After all, everybody has almost the same opportunity to do so.

It takes one good season to be a hot team that players wanna play for. I don't feel that free agency is really the way to build a champion anyway, so I don't care too much for free agency.