Cleveland beats us again

[trapezeus]

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/12/cleveland_browns_wining_and_di.html

They are apparently close to signing holmgren and getting a GM to turn around their operations. Meanwhile in buffalo, the bills are stuck between offering $25MM to Denney and ordering $25 worth of food from Denny's.

I hate this.

[Jaybird]

They can have him.

[DraftBoy]

Yea no lost as far as Im concerned.

Wolf built the Packers not Holmgren.

[trapezeus]

they are at least close to making a change with their GM. We still have modrak and guy on the payroll.

[Demon]

As said many times, but people tend to just jump all over news when it breaks without thinking. Bills, among other teams, would love Holmgren as head coach. However, not as GM. He's had horrid drafts. I wouldn't want him here as GM and it doesn't even look like Seattle wants him back as GM.

Bills did contact him about coaching and he said he wanted a front office job.

What's there not to like about Browns giving him the front office job?

[NorthCarBills]

Yea no lost as far as Im concerned.

Wolf built the Packers not Holmgren.

Agree with that....I was never big on Holmgren coming here to run the show. I think he's an above average coach, but as a GM I never saw too much that made me keen on his arrival in Buffalo.

[Jan Reimers]

I think Holmgren falls in the category of, "Be careful what you wish for."

[HAMMER]

Seattle is such a juggernaut these days aren't they.

[feldspar]

As said many times, but people tend to just jump all over news when it breaks without thinking. Bills, among other teams, would love Holmgren as head coach. However, not as GM. He's had horrid drafts. I wouldn't want him here as GM and it doesn't even look like Seattle wants him back as GM.

Bills did contact him about coaching and he said he wanted a front office job.

What's there not to like about Browns giving him the front office job?

Exactly. The title of the thread is bad. We never sought out Holmgren as a GM, only has a coach. He's made it clear that he doesn't want to be a coach. He wan'ts to be a GM. Cleveland didn't "beat us" in any way. In any case, the Browns just took him to dinner...that doesn't mean they are going to get into his pants.

[trapezeus]

does it not irritate you that we dropped a coach and made coaching a priority find but GM is secondary.

We all will have opinions about GM and coaches selected, but there seemingly isn't even a search on for a GM right now out of one bills drive. and the whole coaching thing has quieted down as well. We are no better off than the week of the Jags game.

Modrak and guy are still technically running our scouting team and free agents for next year. if these two idiots run what should be a high draft pick and take another undersized project player, then there truly is no turning this team around.

Make GM a priority. I think we're all ok with a OC/DC coming in provided he is given tools to work with. How can Gregg williams be a good DC again in Washington and New Orleans. How can Mularkey be doing well again. yet they sucked here. Mularkey has Redman playing well.

Truly there is something very broken in the GM level of our team and we refuse to even look at it. Now is the time to get this done. There are plenty of candidates out there.

[ddaryl]

I owuld like to see some more proactive GM searching happening

I agree Holmgren really isn't all that, but we should be seeing weekly updates on people the Bills are interviewing for the GM position

and since thier not interviewing for the GM spot that leaves 2 scenarios IMO

1.) They hire a big name coach and give him talent evaluation responsibilites

2.) They are not going to change the FO and all we get is coaching changes and more of the same from the FO

[justasportsfan]

does it not irritate you that we dropped a coach and made coaching a priority find but GM is secondary.

We all will have opinions about GM and coaches selected, but there seemingly isn't even a search on for a GM right now out of one bills drive. and the whole coaching thing has quieted down as well. We are no better off than the week of the Jags game.

Modrak and guy are still technically running our scouting team and free agents for next year. if these two idiots run what should be a high draft pick and take another undersized project player, then there truly is no turning this team around.

Make GM a priority. I think we're all ok with a OC/DC coming in provided he is given tools to work with. How can Gregg williams be a good DC again in Washington and New Orleans. How can Mularkey be doing well again. yet they sucked here. Mularkey has Redman playing well.

Truly there is something very broken in the GM level of our team and we refuse to even look at it. Now is the time to get this done. There are plenty of candidates out there.

We agree. We need a true GM and since Holmgren is trying to be one and no thinks he's all that. The browns didn't beat us to anything.

[trapezeus]

which his absolutely maddening if either of those solutions are occuring. because holmgren's GM lack of talent was because he was doing twopositions. Had he done just one, i think he would be better. that' s my opinion and i could be wrong.

I think he's going to have to stick with mangini for a year. i don't understand how cleveland is more enticing than buffalo when you are being stuck with mangini.

If the bills literally let brandon, modrak and guy run the draft again, that might just be the straw that breaks my patience. it will be totally unforgivable. if its not clear as day that those idiots teamed up with fewell doesn't yield us exactly what we've gotten so far, i don't know what to say. I can't do this forever. i can't literally watch this time of pathetic football for one more year.

[BillsWin]

I'm not a huge Holmgren fan to be honest.

Shanahan and Cowher are my first two choices. Cowher is the best available coach in my opinion.


At this point I would love Billick or Grimm, it is a step in the right direction.

[BSU Drew]

Id rather not have him. I really think we will land a top notch coach. I may just be optimistic but for some reason I think it will happen.

[The Juice Is Loose]

I dont see why you all are getting gigantic boners over guys who haven't really done much in a long time.

Sure, Seattle went to the Super Bowl. I'd say its more a product of how lousy the NFC was then. They went like 9-7 every year and won their division. I think the Bills could win their division those years if they got the Rams, 49ers and Cards twice a year.

Shanahan hasn't done dick since 99, Cowher lost his edge and the Steelers sucked his last year. Not that he wasn't mostly a playoff choke artist anyway.

You gotta get a hot young coordinator who's doing awesome now.

My list is Russ Grimm, Leslie Frazier, hell maybe even Jason Garrett.

[ddaryl]

Poeple I don't think Trapezeus is gushing over Holmgren

He's more upset with the lack of Buffalo being proactive in making changes, and I agree with him. there should be a lot mor ebuzz about what is going on in regards to making the changes the fans demand for next year.

Instead were limping thru the rest o fthe season and other league bottom feeders are locking up their guys

[The Juice Is Loose]

Poeple I don't think Trapezeus is gushing over Holmgren

He's more upset with the lack of Buffalo being proactive in making changes, and I agree with him. there should be a lot mor ebuzz about what is going on in regards to making the changes the fans demand for next year.

Instead were limping thru the rest o fthe season and other league bottom feeders are locking up their guys

i agree. but up to this point we've done as much with shanahan as cleveland has done with holmgren. nobody has signed anywhere yet.

[trapezeus]

read the article i posted, juice. It makes it pretty clear that they are in the final stages of locking him up. Who are we locking up?

Thanks Ddaryl. You got my sentiments better than i explained them. when you look at that other post of Chris brown throwing Jauron under the bus on drafts. they are already selling us that those idiots are going to be back. they are already trying to make GM a non-focus.

If they run the draft this year, i'm going to get a knockoff jersey of our first round pick, his number, and the name UFL put on the back.

[ddaryl]

i agree. but up to this point we've done as much with shanahan as cleveland has done with holmgren. nobody has signed anywhere yet.

BUT who cares what other teams are doing... However the fact that Cleveland is not messing around says something positive about Clevelnad IMO. I fail to see why we are not knocking on every single door and interviewing anyone with some experience and is available


No reason to be sitting on our hands.... We're desperate for change but the organization sure doesn't act like it feels like major changes are needed.

We know we'll get a new HC, but that is just the tip of this iceberg

[HAMMER]

Poeple I don't think Trapezeus is gushing over Holmgren

He's more upset with the lack of Buffalo being proactive in making changes, and I agree with him. there should be a lot mor ebuzz about what is going on in regards to making the changes the fans demand for next year.

Instead were limping thru the rest o fthe season and other league bottom feeders are locking up their guys

I don't think you or Trap have any idea what is up at OBD. They made it clear that they were going to keep the whole process on the down low after the initial Shanahan hubub.

[ddaryl]

I don't think you or Trap have any idea what is up at OBD. They made it clear that they were going to keep the whole process on the down low after the initial Shanahan hubub.

of course we don't... If we did we'd be employees.


but what does that have to with anything. The fact is this franchise is a complete mess top to bottom. There are plenty of top candidates out there to be looked at , but nothing but silence from the Bills FO.

The initial Shanahan hubbub is well past, so why nothing ?


Which has me extremly worried because I WANT HUGE CHANGES, and those types of changes are best being looked at early then to wait.

but IMO Cleveland is being pro-active, the Bills are doing what they do best.. screw the pooch

[trapezeus]

coaching changes can't be addressed right now. GM changes can. the more time they have, the better chance they can implement their team and hit the ground running on Free Agents. The more data they have and sell to get the playeres they want....and most importantly, so that they can get a HC the second the guy they want is available.

there just is no way they are looking at a GM right now. because if they are waiting for the end of the season and other teams just need a coach, we're a step behind. It'll be like the jauron hire all over again. everyone we want will go and we'll be left a career loser who is in the top ten of pathetic coaches.

And we'll still have modrak and guy.

This team is failing us. I know i don't know what's going on in OBD, but if they don't get a GM in fast, we're going to miss on both the coach and GM. There are a ton of candidates. There are legends who aren't GMing anywhere. Make that a job they can't turn down.

Even in firing Jauron, they still are finding a way to **** up. Pathetic.

[HAMMER]

of course we don't... If we did we'd be employees.


but what does that have to with anything. The fact is this franchise is a complete mess top to bottom. There are plenty of top candidates out there to be looked at , but nothing but silence from the Bills FO.

The initial Shanahan hubbub is well past, so why nothing ?


Which has me extremly worried because I WANT HUGE CHANGES, and those types of changes are best being looked at early then to wait.

but IMO Cleveland is being pro-active, the Bills are doing what they do best.. screw the pooch

Did you read the second sentence of my post? They flat out stated they were going to keep the whole process quiet, which is the way it should be done.

I know Cleveland has beaten us twice recently but I still don't think you want to look at them as some sort of model franchise. Last year they hired a horrendous coach BEFORE they let him hire a horrendous GM.

[Bill Cody]

This post is confusing. Cleveland beat us to a guy who was given total control in Seattle but was so poor at the GM side that he was forced to give up GM duties to remain as HC? Why would that concern us in any way?

I'm not concerned about speed I'm concerned about getting the right man for the job and there is no rush. The truth is we could improve our draft results with a copy of the 2010 Draft Guide and a spider monkey trained to throw darts. Take a chill pill.

[TheBrownBear]

Sweet! This opens the door for Mangini to Buffalo...

[ddaryl]

Did you read the second sentence of my post? They flat out stated they were going to keep the whole process quiet, which is the way it should be done.

I know Cleveland has beaten us twice recently but I still don't think you want to look at them as some sort of model franchise. Last year they hired a horrendous coach BEFORE they let him hire a horrendous GM.

Yes I read the 2nd sentence... but c'mon there is no keeping this stuff quiet because info always leaks.

The difference between me and you. You believe the Bills are actually working this issue quietly. I beleive the Bills aren't doing a ******* thing and are hiding behind the "keeping the process quiet" press release.


I just have NO TRUST for Ralph and the FO... and I'm not asking for them to be more proactive... I'm demanding it, even though my demands don't mean ****.... but the fact is they can be interviewing communicatiing and talking with lots of people, anbd if they are doing this then I guarentee info would be leaked

the fact we have heard nothing since Shanny worries me because it's a typical Bills tell tale sign that they ain't doing squat.

I'm just unconfident in this franchise, and I would be alot more encouraged if I felt they were exhausting every avennue to turn this pig of a franchise around

[Night Train]

If he wasn't on the radar, how is Cleveland beating us ?

There are multiple name candidates available and everyone has a different shopping list.

[HAMMER]

If he wasn't on the radar, how is Cleveland beating us ?

There are multiple name candidates available and everyone has a different shopping list.

I think he is looking for a daily email update from OBD directly to his Inbox.

[trapezeus]

or simply rumors. there are a handful of channels and a millions blogs and sites dedicated to getting more information out. It is impossible for nothing to be said. and like i said, when you combine it with the fact that they are already saying, "oh jauron is the draft problem, they are looking to all stay and just find a coach." and they already are just throwing money at the problem for one aspect of what is really broken with the bills. They need a new GM badly. This needs to be in place so that the coaching selection is the GM's call.

I think we all know that GM/HC doesn't work. so i don't want shanahan or anyone else getting that title. it will not work.

But i guess after 10 years of complete failure we should just sit back and trust the very idiots who kept selling us dud after dud after dud.

[The Juice Is Loose]

he left Cleveland without a deal.

oh man Cleveland beats us again.