BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

[OpIv37]

Alright, there's a lot of crap going around right now, and some of this needs to be addressed.

1. Maybin has NO trade value. ZERO. The guy is a project and right now, all the risk is on Buffalo. He would be a risk even for a 3-4 team. No other GM is going to bail us out on this one.

2. Neither Stroud nor Williams can play NT in a true 3-4. No one currently on this team can. If we switch to a 3-4, then NT becomes an immediate need on par with LT and QB.

3. While we lack the personnel to run the C2 properly, we're much closer than we are to running a 3-4. Switching to a 3-4 won't yield results for 2-3 seasons. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it- with the exception of the NT, I think a 3-4 is easier to staff than a 4-3. But any D is only as good as the personnel, and we won't be getting all the personnel we need in 1 off-season.

4. Terrell Owens is not coming back. If Steve Johnson and Hardy don't get their asses in gear, WR becomes another off-season need.

Did I miss anything? I may have to return to this thread and add to it. But please, keep these things in mind before posting.

[cocamide]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

No big name coach is coming here.

[Philagape]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

Did I miss anything?

Don't forget keeping Byrd instead of the No. 1 overall pick, and getting a first-rounder in return for Schobel.

But the crap is never-ending, so I don't advise wasting hours wading through it.

[Dying_-2-_Live]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

This is all depressing... because it very well may be true

[bigbub2352]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

Nice Post
I think that the D will be determined by who is brought in to run it, regardelss of the talent on the current roster
Our secondary fits any scheme and that is our strength
We need wholesale changes in the front office and coaching staff 10 yrs of losing means change it all up everything u did before do the ****ing oposite

We also need to let some people walk at the end of the year and cut some dead weight as well
Corto
Buggs
Chambers
Scott
Reed
TO
Fine
Schouman
Wendling
T.Johnson
Parriah
Jenkins
Kelsay
Denney
Mcyntire
Draft
Whitner
McCargo
McKinney
Gaddis
Mace
Huggins
Hawthorne
Bruce Hall
Youboty
Ellison
Edwards
are guys that need to be replaced or let walk upgrades to depth and guys making way to much money for there worth need to be shown the door!

guys like Ellis, Stroud, Mitchell, Cary harris, Ramsey, Bell. Meredith, Simmons, klopenstein, Hardy, Stupar, Fitzpatrick, Sanborn are bubble players that i think get another look from whoever takes over and probably get another year to prove there worth

we need depth and we need Oline, Dline, LBer, FB, QB, WR, TE, to all be addressed with the biggest 1 being QB

[Romes]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

No big name coach is coming here.

I think a big name coach is possible.

I know history says you're right but all the early reports about Shanny and Cowher gave me hope of a break from history.

[kernowboy]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

Alright, there's a lot of crap going around right now, and some of this needs to be addressed.

1. Maybin has NO trade value. ZERO. The guy is a project and right now, all the risk is on Buffalo. He would be a risk even for a 3-4 team. No other GM is going to bail us out on this one.

2. Neither Stroud nor Williams can play NT in a true 3-4. No one currently on this team can. If we switch to a 3-4, then NT becomes an immediate need on par with LT and QB.

3. While we lack the personnel to run the C2 properly, we're much closer than we are to running a 3-4. Switching to a 3-4 won't yield results for 2-3 seasons. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it- with the exception of the NT, I think a 3-4 is easier to staff than a 4-3. But any D is only as good as the personnel, and we won't be getting all the personnel we need in 1 off-season.

4. Terrell Owens is not coming back. If Steve Johnson and Hardy don't get their asses in gear, WR becomes another off-season need.

Did I miss anything? I may have to return to this thread and add to it. But please, keep these things in mind before posting.

Yes, the fact that this is your own opinion only and that valid arguments can quite easily be created for the complete opposite of at least three points.

1) Maybin is the equal of any of the 3-4 OLB coming out this year. Other teams will still see his potential but will think he is better suited in their system. The number of players other coaches think they can turn around is endless. As he has never been tried in a 3-4 he is not the same as Gholston who did have zero value after his rookie season.

2) Agreed - if we make the switch. Tomlin went to the Steelers and a 4-3 man became a 3-4 guy

3) A more aggressive 'Jim Johnson like' 4-3 will be far more easy to implement and if a guy like Greg Blanche is cut loose by the Redskins new staff, don't be surprised to see him here

4) Owens is now 36, and he will struggle to get a pay day similar to what Buffalo can offer - or at least Buffalo can match. He is wise enough to wait to see who becomes the new GM, Head Coach having witnessed the rapid turnarounds which occured in Miami and Atlanta.

[kernowboy]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

Whilst I accept misery loves company, stretching the facts to find friends is very amusing

Aside from Orakpo, all of Maybin's contemporaries have not had much production in their rookie years.

Similar players in Brown, English, Barwin and Sintim have had very similar stats of approximately 0.5 starts, 16 tackes, and 1.2 sacks on average. Do all of these players have zero trade value, especially as more and more teams switch to the 3-4 draining the talent pool for those who could play in that type of defence?

Orakpo is held up as a stick to beat Maybin with, but he has had the opportunity to start all 13 games and the opportunity to play with a fit LB Corps as well as a brilliant DT in Haynesworth.

Barwin, Brown and Sintim have played opposite Peppers, Mario Williams and Osi Umenyiora. Maybin has had the great Chris Kelsay drawing double teams, and has played on one of the most decimitated defensive units in the league.

When the FACTS are considered, to suggest that Maybin has zero trade value is quite frankly ludicrous.

Several teams were interested in Maybin in the draft, and if the Bills were to suggest they might consider offers, several teams would be prepared to rate Maybin highly compared to the Jerry Hughes, Von Miller and Sergio Kindle, because although he has not had an opportunity in his first season, he is now far more NFL ready than any of these rookies being considered as 1st or high 2nd round picks

[X-Era]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

1. Maybin has NO trade value. ZERO. The guy is a project and right now, all the risk is on Buffalo. He would be a risk even for a 3-4 team. No other GM is going to bail us out on this one.

Agreed

2. Neither Stroud nor Williams can play NT in a true 3-4. No one currently on this team can. If we switch to a 3-4, then NT becomes an immediate need on par with LT and QB.

Huhh?

Define for me what a NT (3-4) should look like.

3. While we lack the personnel to run the C2 properly, we're much closer than we are to running a 3-4. Switching to a 3-4 won't yield results for 2-3 seasons. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it- with the exception of the NT, I think a 3-4 is easier to staff than a 4-3. But any D is only as good as the personnel, and we won't be getting all the personnel we need in 1 off-season.

Outside of NT, we lack what?

Maybin at OLB
Poz or Mitchell at ILB and OLB (not sure which goes where)
that means one starting LB'er.
Stroud can certainly play DE in a 3-4
the other can be smaller like Schobel, Kelsay, or even Chris Ellis.
The secondary has plenty of players, not worried there.

That means one LB, and a NT to play it. We should also get a true upgrade at DE for a 3-4.

4. Terrell Owens is not coming back. If Steve Johnson and Hardy don't get their asses in gear, WR becomes another off-season need.

Who needs to get their ass in gear? I think this is on Fewell at this point. And a big name HC just may bring a new WR signee into town. Shanahan/Marshall would be an example.

[OpIv37]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

Whilst I accept misery loves company, stretching the facts to find friends is very amusing

Aside from Orakpo, all of Maybin's contemporaries have not had much production in their rookie years.

Similar players in Brown, English, Barwin and Sintim have had very similar stats of approximately 0.5 starts, 16 tackes, and 1.2 sacks on average. Do all of these players have zero trade value, especially as more and more teams switch to the 3-4 draining the talent pool for those who could play in that type of defence?

Orakpo is held up as a stick to beat Maybin with, but he has had the opportunity to start all 13 games and the opportunity to play with a fit LB Corps as well as a brilliant DT in Haynesworth.

Barwin, Brown and Sintim have played opposite Peppers, Mario Williams and Osi Umenyiora. Maybin has had the great Chris Kelsay drawing double teams, and has played on one of the most decimitated defensive units in the league.

When the FACTS are considered, to suggest that Maybin has zero trade value is quite frankly ludicrous.

Several teams were interested in Maybin in the draft, and if the Bills were to suggest they might consider offers, several teams would be prepared to rate Maybin highly compared to the Jerry Hughes, Von Miller and Sergio Kindle, because although he has not had an opportunity in his first season, he is now far more NFL ready than any of these rookies being considered as 1st or high 2nd round picks

Two questions:
1. Would you trade a first or second round pick for Barwin, Brown, or Sintim?
2. When was the last time you heard of a R1 rookie who didn't produce in his rookie season being traded for significant value before his second season?

This simply doesn't happen. Maybin is a huge risk right now. Other teams would rather just take the risk on their own draft picks than on him.

And there are guys coming out in the draft this year who are more NFL ready than Maybin. He's still undersized and has no inside move. He's not NFL ready 13 games into his career.

[OpIv37]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

Agreed



Huhh?

Define for me what a NT (3-4) should look like.



Outside of NT, we lack what?

Maybin at OLB
Poz or Mitchell at ILB and OLB (not sure which goes where)
that means one starting LB'er.
Stroud can certainly play DE in a 3-4
the other can be smaller like Schobel, Kelsay, or even Chris Ellis.
The secondary has plenty of players, not worried there.

That means one LB, and a NT to play it. We should also get a true upgrade at DE for a 3-4.



Who needs to get their ass in gear? I think this is on Fewell at this point. And a big name HC just may bring a new WR signee into town. Shanahan/Marshall would be an example.

It's not what an NT "looks like." It's how they perform. A 3-4 NT needs to occupy two blockers at a time and fight through them. Neither Stroud nor Williams can do that consistently. In our system they shoot gaps. In a 3-4, they'd need to line up directly over an offensive lineman and wreak havoc.

None of our DE's are suited for a 3-4, although Spencer Johnson and maybe Williams can be DE's in a 3-4.

We'd need at a minimum 1 DE, 1 LB (2 if Maybin can't do it), an LT, a shut-down corner to play opposite McKelvin (McGee's a nickel in a 3-4- he doesn't play man well enough), plus depth at every position.

[DraftBoy]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

Can I just say I find it ironic that you of all people are offering up a reality check.

That being said good points all around.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

Huhh?

Define for me what a NT (3-4) should look like.

[Beastie Bills]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

Alright, there's a lot of crap going around right now, and some of this needs to be addressed.

1. Maybin has NO trade value. ZERO. The guy is a project and right now, all the risk is on Buffalo. He would be a risk even for a 3-4 team. No other GM is going to bail us out on this one.

2. Neither Stroud nor Williams can play NT in a true 3-4. No one currently on this team can. If we switch to a 3-4, then NT becomes an immediate need on par with LT and QB.

3. While we lack the personnel to run the C2 properly, we're much closer than we are to running a 3-4. Switching to a 3-4 won't yield results for 2-3 seasons. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it- with the exception of the NT, I think a 3-4 is easier to staff than a 4-3. But any D is only as good as the personnel, and we won't be getting all the personnel we need in 1 off-season.

4. Terrell Owens is not coming back. If Steve Johnson and Hardy don't get their asses in gear, WR becomes another off-season need.

Did I miss anything? I may have to return to this thread and add to it. But please, keep these things in mind before posting.

Very good thread.

I'm not against switching to a 3-4, but it will take a few years to get good. People will need to temper their expectations.

And there is zero chance that T.O. comes back to Buffalo. He must think this organization is a complete joke.

[trapezeus]

Re: BILLSZONE REALITY CHECK

i'm torn on switching from 4-3 to 3-4. The defense sucks at run stopping currently, but for 3 full quarters, they play well enough to win. Now granted the turnover situation has been super lopsided a couple times and that's the hallmark of living with a bend but don't break defense. you need to get turnovers.

The Bills defense still needs a lot of upgrades, everywhere, no matter what they run. They need someone a stud DL and they need linebackers...lots of them.

I actually think as pathetic as the offense is, getting a coordinator with experience and an LT and QB solves a lot of problems. i think the bills have developed some depth to step in for a couple games across the line in the upcoming years, but nothing that can start.

As for Owens, i don't care. his two big games came from playing against rookies. against elite backs, he's invisible. He was a fun experience for a ****ty year, but that's about it.