Bills/Pats sold out; will be on local TV

[Coach Sal]

The game was close to not being a sellout in time to be televised locally.

It's now a sellout and will be on local Buffalo CBS.

[The Juice Is Loose]

Yay we all get to watch the Bills get creamed!

[justasportsfan]

Anyone here want to lose to the PAts for a draft pick? Not me.

[The Juice Is Loose]

I'd be ecstatic if we won.

That said, we're not going to win.

[Beastie Bills]

I'll admit that I've rooted for losses for the last few weeks (although, I can't seem to make myself root against the Bills once the game starts).

But I REALLY want to beat the f'n Patriots. I don't care if it's a boring, 5-3 game. Just beat them please.

[clumping platelets]

Bills win, Brady throws 5 TDs :D

[mybills]

I'd be ecstatic if we won.

That said, we're not going to win.
Do you have a crystal ball?

[Commissioner]

My fantasy playoffs starts this week and I have Brady and Moss.... that should be 100 points right there.

[Demon]

Anyone here want to lose to the PAts for a draft pick? Not me.

Let's win by 14. Lose draft slots and keep Perry Fewell as HC. Great recipe for success!

[trapezeus]

my thought is that the bills should buy every excess ticket for the next 3.5 years and sell out the games as an apology to bills fans for the whole Jauron debacle. I dont want to hear about a single blacked out game for a while. We showed up to some of the crappiest games ever played.

[RockStar36]

my thought is that the bills should buy every excess ticket for the next 3.5 years and sell out the games as an apology to bills fans for the whole Jauron debacle. I dont want to hear about a single blacked out game for a while. We showed up to some of the crappiest games ever played.

While a team in the playoff hunt, Jacksonville, just sold out their first game all season.

[Coach Sal]

Let's win by 14. Lose draft slots and keep Perry Fewell as HC. Great recipe for success!

Yeah. Let's keep losing, have yet another 8, or 11, or 12 pick.....just like we have almost every year the past decade....because that CERTAINLY has been a recipe for success so far, right?!

How ridiculous.

[RockStar36]

The whole losing to get a higher draft pick is such a flawed argument when you actually think about it.

[justasportsfan]

Let's win by 14. Lose draft slots and keep Perry Fewell as HC. Great recipe for success!
Fewell will not be retained as HC just because we beat the Pats.

You don't win by simply drafting high. You win by drafting right , knowing how to develop that draft and coaching them well.

[Coach Sal]

The whole losing to get a higher draft pick is such a flawed argument when you actually think about it.

Of course it is.

I honestly don't know if I've ever heard such a loser mentality. Yet I read it all the time, year after year after year on these boards....and nothing's changed with this team. That's not a coincidence.

Some people just don't get it and obviously NEVER will.

Steelers
Eagles
Pats
Chargers
Colts

Those teams are in the mix for division, conference, and SB titles year after year after year, yet miraculously, they draft in the bottom 3rd every single year as well.

That's not a coincidence either. So why is it? It's because they have good people making decisions and players on the field who are held to a HIGH standard of WINNING all the time -- no matter who is on the field.

In those places, losing is not acceptable. I want to be like THOSE teams.

We've tried it the other way the past TEN YEARS!! Can someone please tell me how in any way, shape, or form it has made this organization better?!?!

[justasportsfan]

I remember a time when we were happy to go 3-13 so we could draft Mike Williams.

[BillsFanCupp38]

Unbelievable... We sell out a game in a season that has gone completely down the drain against a team we haven't beat in 6 years! The Bills nation for ya... BTW and you can quote this... I smell upset!

[mybills]

I guess that neg means you don't have a crystal ball. :up:

[Dr. Lecter]

I guess that neg means you don't have a crystal ball. :up:

:rofl:

[BillsFanInNM]

Of course it is.

I honestly don't know if I've ever heard such a loser mentality. Yet I read it all the time, year after year after year on these boards....and nothing's changed with this team. That's not a coincidence.

Some people just don't get it and obviously NEVER will.

Steelers
Eagles
Pats
Chargers
Colts

Those teams are in the mix for division, conference, and SB titles year after year after year, yet miraculously, they draft in the bottom 3rd every single year as well.

That's not a coincidence either. So why is it? It's because they have good people making decisions and players on the field who are held to a HIGH standard of WINNING all the time -- no matter who is on the field.

In those places, losing is not acceptable. I want to be like THOSE teams.

We've tried it the other way the past TEN YEARS!! Can someone please tell me how in any way, shape, or form it has made this organization better?!?!


another thing all those teams have in common is their QB's were all drafted early in round 1, except for the Pats. I'm not saying I want to lose out for draft picks, I don't think any of the QB's in the draft this year are top 10 worthy, but there is an argument to be made for both sides.

[Dying_-2-_Live]

Yeah. Let's keep losing, have yet another 8, or 11, or 12 pick.....just like we have almost every year the past decade....because that CERTAINLY has been a recipe for success so far, right?!

How ridiculous.

Demon was being sarcastic by the way :couch:

[Nighthawk]

Of course it is.

I honestly don't know if I've ever heard such a loser mentality. Yet I read it all the time, year after year after year on these boards....and nothing's changed with this team. That's not a coincidence.

Some people just don't get it and obviously NEVER will.

Steelers
Eagles
Pats
Chargers
Colts

Those teams are in the mix for division, conference, and SB titles year after year after year, yet miraculously, they draft in the bottom 3rd every single year as well.

That's not a coincidence either. So why is it? It's because they have good people making decisions and players on the field who are held to a HIGH standard of WINNING all the time -- no matter who is on the field.

In those places, losing is not acceptable. I want to be like THOSE teams.

We've tried it the other way the past TEN YEARS!! Can someone please tell me how in any way, shape, or form it has made this organization better?!?!

Well, Sal...if you want to be like those teams, winning a meaningless game that could keep the same people in charge is not going to get you any closer. Losing and losing ugly is pretty much the thing that would almost clinch the overhaul that everybody (I think) wants. If they win, so be it...but if they lose, I won't cry. I don't get too excited about meaningless victories in the middle of another losing season. It's not that I don't care, it's quite the opposite...I care too much and want to see a major overhaul and I know how Ralphy thinks. If he sees any life...even a glimmer, he WILL go the cheap route and keep Perry Fool and the losers in the front office. I, for one, do not want any part of that. It's time to start building a winner again and that means a housecleaning. If you can't see that them actually losing probably gets them closer to that goal, then I don't know what to tell you.

[Coach Sal]

Demon was being sarcastic by the way :couch:

If so, thanks. Didn't realize it.

??

[Coach Sal]

Well, Sal...if you want to be like those teams, winning a meaningless game that could keep the same people in charge is not going to get you any closer. Losing and losing ugly is pretty much the thing that would almost clinch the overhaul that everybody (I think) wants. If they win, so be it...but if they lose, I won't cry. I don't get too excited about meaningless victories in the middle of another losing season. It's not that I don't care, it's quite the opposite...I care too much and want to see a major overhaul and I know how Ralphy thinks. If he sees any life...even a glimmer, he WILL go the cheap route and keep Perry Fool and the losers in the front office. I, for one, do not want any part of that. It's time to start building a winner again and that means a housecleaning. If you can't see that them actually losing probably gets them closer to that goal, then I don't know what to tell you.

I just want to win. Period. Every game.

If that means win with the people in charge right now, fine.

If that means win with new people in charge, fine.

It's simple. The organization needs a change of CULTURE. You change the culture of losing to winning by.....(gasp!)......actually winning. That can start at any time.

A win over New England, and a win over Indy (especially if they are 15-0) would go a LONG way to help change that culture.

And as much as I'd also like to see someone other than Perry Fewell be the HC next year, if he WINS, why should he NOT get every consideration possible for the job? That's the point of the job, isn't it?

Why is he Perry "Fool" to you if he wins games with the same group of guys that have been losing?! To me, that would mean he is already changing the culture of the franchise and making winning important -- even when some people may not think it is .

This whole term "meaningless victory" is so wrong.....and is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

If you want to change from a negative, losing culture to a positive, winning culture, NO wins are "meaningless." Losing them and thinking "that's ok, it doesn't matter" does exactly the opposite of what this organization needs. They need to win. This week. Next week. The finale. Every game possible. That's how you create a winning culture and how you instill the fact that winning is important into your organization.

[Nighthawk]

I just want to win. Period. Every game.

If that means win with the people in charge right now, fine.

If that means win with new people in charge, fine.

It's simple. The organization needs a change of CULTURE. You change the culture of losing to winning by.....(gasp!)......actually winning. That can start at any time.

A win over New England, and a win over Indy (especially if they are 15-0) would go a LONG way to help change that culture.

And as much as I'd also like to see someone other than Perry Fewell be the HC next year, if he WINS, why should he NOT get every consideration possible for the job? That's the point of the job, isn't it?

Why is he Perry "Fool" to you if he wins games with the same group of guys that have been losing?! To me, that would mean he is already changing the culture of the franchise and making winning important -- even when some people may not think it is .

This whole term "meaningless victory" is so wrong.....and is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

If you want to change from a negative, losing culture to a positive, winning culture, NO wins are "meaningless." Losing them and thinking "that's ok, it doesn't matter" does exactly the opposite of what this organization needs. They need to win. This week. Next week. The finale. Every game possible. That's how you create a winning culture and how you instill the fact that winning is important into your organization.

Trust me, you need changes to this franchise for anything to change. Winning these games is not going to all of sudden...POOF!!!...make the Bills into a better coached, better run, better drafting team. Now that is just plain ludicrous. If you want to win these games and are OK with them bringing back the losers who have ruined this franchise for the past 10 years, that's fine. However, please don't be so pompous towards others who feel that the only way to change this team is to see a complete overhaul and yes, that might mean them losing the rest of their games. You are not a better Bills fan for feeling the way you do, so don't post like you are. I'm sure that everybody who posts on this site is all wanting what is best for the team. Now, each person might feel differently about how to get to that point, but I'm pretty sure that all fans care about one thing and that is this franchise being successful again.

[Demon]

I just want to win. Period. Every game.

If that means win with the people in charge right now, fine.

If that means win with new people in charge, fine.

It's simple. The organization needs a change of CULTURE. You change the culture of losing to winning by.....(gasp!)......actually winning. That can start at any time.

A win over New England, and a win over Indy (especially if they are 15-0) would go a LONG way to help change that culture.

And as much as I'd also like to see someone other than Perry Fewell be the HC next year, if he WINS, why should he NOT get every consideration possible for the job? That's the point of the job, isn't it?

Why is he Perry "Fool" to you if he wins games with the same group of guys that have been losing?! To me, that would mean he is already changing the culture of the franchise and making winning important -- even when some people may not think it is .

This whole term "meaningless victory" is so wrong.....and is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

If you want to change from a negative, losing culture to a positive, winning culture, NO wins are "meaningless." Losing them and thinking "that's ok, it doesn't matter" does exactly the opposite of what this organization needs. They need to win. This week. Next week. The finale. Every game possible. That's how you create a winning culture and how you instill the fact that winning is important into your organization.

What is he winning? You keep talking about "loser talk". The only loser talk is winning ugly, but Fewell says theres no such thing as an "ugly win"... now thats loser talk. Fewell "keeps" winnings? You mean the game where it was a 100% copy of the Browns game vs. Miami for the first 3 and a half quarters until the Bills scored like crazy on Miami? The entire game sucked, it was like the Browns game.

Oh, you must mean a win like the win against KC. Where Fitzpatrick threw for a whooping 88 yards. Fitz throws for like 46 in the second half in Toronto. Our new genius coach runs Lynch 4 times vs. the Jets for like 56 yards, then only runs him twice more, for the rest of the game. GENIUS!

We hit a home run pass in the Jacksonville game but you telling me we looked good? C'mon man. NOW thats loser talk.

I don't want to lose out to get a better draft pick. I don't care where we pick, although, the higher you pick, the better of a chance you have. It's NOT about the selection of the pick, it's WHOS PICKING them. We keep winning, and we start keeping some of these morons, it doesn't matter if we pick 1st, 5th or 15th, they will find a way to draft a bum. I want to lose because i want to ensure we fire these bozos.

What will it prove if they win ugly against the Pats? Who have YET to win on the road so we wouldn't exactly be doing anything crazy. Pats are injured, very WEAK on defense and a mess (with the Moss in the press).... and beating the Colts when they use a lot of backups? You want to be HAPPY about that.. sorry, but that's loser talk.

[Coach Sal]

......However, please don't be so pompous towards others who feel that the only way to change this team is to see a complete overhaul and yes, that might mean them losing the rest of their games. You are not a better Bills fan for feeling the way you do, so don't post like you are. I'm sure that everybody who posts on this site is all wanting what is best for the team. Now, each person might feel differently about how to get to that point, but I'm pretty sure that all fans care about one thing and that is this franchise being successful again.

Wow, dude. You are reading WAYYYYYYY too much into what I wrote.

I have never, ever written, in thousands of posts on various message boards, that I am a "better fan" than anyone.....for ANY reason.

I just believe that the line of thinking that "losing will help us win" is misguided and foolish. Obviously you and others don't. I know because I read it year after year after year.

But, heck, if you want to read things that aren't there and make accusations that are completely dumbfounded, knock yourself out.

[Coach Sal]

What is he winning?

If the Bills have more points than the other team at the end of the game, then he'd be winning games. Regardless of how you or I or anyone "wants" to win them.


You keep talking about "loser talk". The only loser talk is winning ugly, but Fewell says theres no such thing as an "ugly win"... now thats loser talk.

And he is 100% correct. There is never an "ugly win" in pro sports. You either win or you lose. "You are what your record says you are." -- Bill Parcells

Look at the standings in any sport.

Is there an asterisk next to any team's WIN column because they didn't play well that game? Do they keep teams out of the playoffs because they didn't play well enough, yet still won?

However, don't get me wrong. I also believe there is no such thing as a "moral victory." Moral victories are for losers. Winners find a way to win. Losers accept losing.


Fewell "keeps" winnings? You mean the game where it was a 100% copy of the Browns game vs. Miami for the first 3 and a half quarters until the Bills scored like crazy on Miami? The entire game sucked, it was like the Browns game.

Oh, you must mean a win like the win against KC. Where Fitzpatrick threw for a whooping 88 yards. Fitz throws for like 46 in the second half in Toronto. Our new genius coach runs Lynch 4 times vs. the Jets for like 56 yards, then only runs him twice more, for the rest of the game. GENIUS!

We hit a home run pass in the Jacksonville game but you telling me we looked good? C'mon man. NOW thats loser talk.

Wow.

Who cares? It's really more important to you how the team "looks" and what their stats are than if they win or lose?! Amazing.


It's NOT about the selection of the pick, it's WHOS PICKING them.

Exactly correct. That's why losing and gaining a better pick means nothing. We've done that for 10 years and we still suck.


What will it prove if they win ugly against the Pats?

Any win against a team that has owned you for a decade is a GREAT win, no matter how bad you think you played. Because that's what teams that believe winning is important do -- they play to win every game and often win even when they don't play their best. That's where I want this team to be.


Who have YET to win on the road so we wouldn't exactly be doing anything crazy.

Sure we would. Beat a team that's beaten you 12 straight and 17/19, AND who's fighting for a divisional title? Those are the kinds of things (even maybe small in the grand scheme and don't show up immediately) that begin to change cultures.


Pats are injured, very WEAK on defense and a mess (with the Moss in the press).... and beating the Colts when they use a lot of backups?

Yes, and yes. Let's win. Winning is good. Always. Quit diminishing it.


You want to be HAPPY about that.. sorry, but that's loser talk.

Yes, I want to be happy about winning. You want to be happy about losing. What sounds more like loser talk to you?


It's really a case of not being able to see the forest through the trees. The trees are the overall draft pick and record of the team. The forest is the bigger picture and culture of the organization.

[Demon]

Sal, i'm sorry but i will never agree with you on this topic. I have argued many people on this forum in my time here and many times people make great points to change my opinion (like on Colt McCoy) but i can tell you with confidence that i'll never agree with you. If you ever read Sal Maiorana from the Rochester D@C, he'll think you're nuts too.

The ONLY thing that is keeping the Bills in any game right now is our INT's. Once teams figure out a way around it, we're toast every single Sunday. The Browns game was the worst game i've ever been at. The Miami game isn't far behind it. Then in the final 4 minutes, we took a few risks which worked, and boom, we blew them out. The long field goal doesn't work, we lose the game. And forget the massive scoring output in that shortly followed that.

Our wins are other teams mistakes. We won't go very far going with that theory. Fewell's looked the same way vs. Jacksonville AND Jets in Toronto except those teams didn't hand us wins. Fitzpatrick throws 46 yards in the 2nd half. I mean, that's PATHETIC. He throws 88 yards vs. KC. You want these people picking the picks come April?

Like i said, i don't think losing will make us winners, nor do i think losing to get a better pick will help us get a better player. My problem is, the more we win, the more hype and stream Fewell gets and the more we think about keeping him. I don't want Fewell at all. I don't want Alex Van Pelt. I don't want Tom Modrak or John Guy around either. I want a complete over haul of personal. Bring new people in here and change the "culture" as you say.

This has nothing to do with draft picks. This has everything to do with getting rid of idiots who are running this team and sorry, maybe 10 years of losing hasn't gotten me down as much as it has to you that being happy about little, ugly wins..... i want to WIN games. I don't want to win games by airing it out for 88 yards or hoping Chris Chambers drops a ball.

We need to change the culture, by getting rid of all the cancers in our front office and getting new blood.

[Coach Sal]

Sal, i'm sorry but i will never agree with you on this topic. I have argued many people on this forum in my time here and many times people make great points to change my opinion (like on Colt McCoy) but i can tell you with confidence that i'll never agree with you. If you ever read Sal Maiorana from the Rochester D@C, he'll think you're nuts too.

And I'll find hundreds of people who think Sal M. is nuts, too. I don't really care what other writers, bloggers, broadcasters, or fans think. Their opinions are no more valid than mine - or yours - on something like this.

But, that being said, I know there are a lot of fans who believe the approach you are saying is a better one. I don't think it makes anyone less or worse or better of a fan than anyone else. It's just a philosophy I could never, ever adopt. In rooting for my teams or in life in general.

Sure, there are times when I believe losing or failing helped to strengthen someone's resolve in the end....but I could never, ever feel that winning is a bad thing on any level or scale. I'm competitive by nature and approach everything with that mind set going in.

Look, I've had two very close friends lose their high school head coaching jobs within the past couple weeks, simply because their teams did not win enough over the last few years. I've coached for over ten years myself.....and the difference between winnning and losing can mean the difference between having a job or not having one. I understand that the Bills winning/losing has no effect on this, but "hoping to lose" (for whatever reason) is just a mindset I could never imagine having.

[RockStar36]

Losing or winning this game won't change what Ralph intends to do this offseason. His mind is already made up.

So with that in mind, win the damn game. It's the Patriots. End the 12 game streak. Help damage their playoff chances.

If they win and their draft choice is a little lower, who friggin cares.

[Demon]

Look, I've had two very close friends lose their high school head coaching jobs within the past couple weeks, simply because their teams did not win enough over the last few years. I've coached for over ten years myself.....and the difference between winnning and losing can mean the difference between having a job or not having one. I understand that the Bills winning/losing has no effect on this, but "hoping to lose" (for whatever reason) is just a mindset I could never imagine having.

First off, sorry to hear about your friends, especially in this economy, losing jobs of any kind is difficult.

Second of, i think you've kind of made my point there. Winning keeps jobs, while losing, gets people fired. I personally don't see anything special in the wins we've had, i think Dick Jauron could have easily won the games Fewell did and that isn't saying anything at all, and i think Jauron could have beaten the Pats this upcoming Sunday due to the circumstances. I'm afriad, that a few more wins, and we will keep Fewell on. Maybe give him some new weapon and have him get a new OC but twist it around as Fewell is "our best choice". Maybe i am just negative, but i'm not impressed with Fewell. And i understand, few more loses, and he'll be long gone. Few more wins, and we may keep him and continue what IMO is a nightmare.

We are on the brink of tearing this organization apart finally and having a massive face list. A little, unimpressive run, could put a bump in that and i would really hate us change course because Fewell beat the Pats who are very beatable or the Colts with several backups.

[trapezeus]

i don't know, but of the 5 wins we have, only 1 was remotely entertaining. Even that bucs game, the bills were close to figuring out how to blow a 16 point lead with 9 minutes to go.

these wins have been as bad as the losses. this team doesn't have a losing culture by accident. they are just gambling on draft picks and coaches and game day decisions. they have no thesis on how to get a winning team in place.

Gambling is ok every now and then, but it can't be the backbone on how you develop a team. you can't do it.