So, thinking about our 2010 OL

[X-Era]

Ive been thinking about this. All of the guys on our roster who play OL will be healthy at the start of training camp.

That means we will have the following on our roster:

OT- Demetrius Bell- Has played well at times, and has upside to become a starting caliper LT

OT- Kirk Chambers- personally I'm done with him, but some feel he has some upside, and he certainly has experience

OT- Jamon Meredith- another guy who has played a lot, will have valuable experience and has real upside to potentially be a starting RT

OT- John Scott- has played decent at times, like Bell and Meredith, has valuable experience and upside

OT- Brad Butler will also return and started the season as our most veteran guy with lots of experience and having shown decent play. Hes a young vet, but solid, and appears to be a solid starter.

OG- Levitre- Improving and looking like a solid OG as of late

OG- Eric Wood- May not be ready by training camp but was our best OLmen this year IMO, got valuable experience, no reason he cant quicklydevelop into one of the leagues better G's.

OG- Seth McKinney a proven vet who played decent for us

OG- Kendall Simmons- a proven vet who played very well for us

OG- Richie Incognito- Solid vet, whos a dirty player, but is solid none the less

C- Geoff Hangartner- our 2nd best OLmen behind Wood, IMO, but very solid and pretty good

If you look at that, and you add in a high draft pick as a potential future franchise LT, we look to be deep and solid when everyone is healthy.

We cant keep everyone, I hope we get smart and keep the vets for solid depth and to push our young guys. But our young guys now have experience, and have shown flashes.

Point is, our 2009 OL was green as the hills with no starts, and through additions throughout the year and starting youngsters, we will be in a completely different situation next year.

Personally, I like the looks of our line going into next year. They just need to get healthy.

[Griz78]

Brad Butler too, RT

[X-Era]

Brad Butler too, RT
Oops! Fixed it.

[McBFLO]

That's why the more I think about it, the more I think the Bills have to try and get one of the top LT in the draft with their first pick. Okung?- Levitre -Hangartner - Wood - Butler. That ain't too shabby. Plus, I like your point on the depth. All these injuries could be looked at as a positive. The new regime will have game film on alllll of these guys while playing with the Bills. If they can stay healthy, we could be looking pretty good.

[YardRat]

I have to agree...We finally have something to look forward to 'next season' regarding the o-line. Could go from glaring weakness to the most solid and deep unit on the team in a little over a season.

[X-Era]

I have to agree...We finally have something to look forward to 'next season' regarding the o-line. Could go from glaring weakness to the most solid and deep unit on the team in a little over a season.

:up:

Unless we screw it up and cut all the vets and tackles with experience and put UDFA's or late rounders as primary backups.

Pray for a "real" HC who will know better.

[X-Era]

That's why the more I think about it, the more I think the Bills have to try and get one of the top LT in the draft with their first pick. Okung?- Levitre -Hangartner - Wood - Butler. That ain't too shabby. Plus, I like your point on the depth. All these injuries could be looked at as a positive. The new regime will have game film on alllll of these guys while playing with the Bills. If they can stay healthy, we could be looking pretty good.

Okung is ideal, but also a top 5 pick. He could possibly drop, but I dont think its likely.

Probably looking at Williams, or Campbell if we stay at 8-10.

But the depth is so good at OT in this draft, we could even get a solid prospect in the 2nd or maybe even 3rd.

[Mr. Pink]

I must be in the minority but I think that we have one of the worst offensive lines in the history of the franchise.

We have two guys with upside, Wood and Levitre. Levitre hasn't been impressive but he doesn't appear to be as bad because others overshadow him. Pick a name, it doesn't matter. And the problem with Wood is his injury, no way to tell if he'll ever return to form he's at not let alone progress.

People sit and claim injuries on the o-line have been a huge problem for this team, outside of Wood, does it matter? Replacing a bum with another bum is the same end result.

I personally believe that 4 of the 5 OTs shouldn't be in the league let alone the fact that right now, two of them have to start. Bell, Scott, Chambers, Meredith are all brutal. Brutal is putting it nicely.

McKinney is good depth.

Hangartner is an upgrade over Fowler but then again so would a stiff breeze.

We need replacements at at least 3 of the 5 spots on the o-line and possibly 4 depending on Woods' recovery.

[DrGraves]

It looks nice on paper but I'm sure everyone will be injured as soon as the season starts again.

[X-Era]

I must be in the minority but I think that we have one of the worst offensive lines in the history of the franchise.

We have two guys with upside, Wood and Levitre. Levitre hasn't been impressive but he doesn't appear to be as bad because others overshadow him. Pick a name, it doesn't matter. And the problem with Wood is his injury, no way to tell if he'll ever return to form he's at not let alone progress.

People sit and claim injuries on the o-line have been a huge problem for this team, outside of Wood, does it matter? Replacing a bum with another bum is the same end result.

I personally believe that 4 of the 5 OTs shouldn't be in the league let alone the fact that right now, two of them have to start. Bell, Scott, Chambers, Meredith are all brutal. Brutal is putting it nicely.

McKinney is good depth.

Hangartner is an upgrade over Fowler but then again so would a stiff breeze.

We need replacements at at least 3 of the 5 spots on the o-line and possibly 4 depending on Woods' recovery.

I can understand your take.

I just feel like the individual experience will translate to a fully settled line. What I mean is that we have not had any long term starters entrenched all year, except Levitre. And Levitre is showing the benefit from starting at one position for a whole year.

I think the term "jell" is huge when looking at overall line play.

I guess Im saying we may have good prospects, some solid players, and quality vets who have been forced to play like individuals instead of an O line. And that if all of the positions sort then out, and if they stay in those positions, we may be pretty decent.

I guess I have looked at their individual play pretty much all year since they were constantly being shuffled.

[YardRat]

I must be in the minority but I think that we have one of the worst offensive lines in the history of the franchise.

We have two guys with upside, Wood and Levitre. Levitre hasn't been impressive but he doesn't appear to be as bad because others overshadow him. Pick a name, it doesn't matter. And the problem with Wood is his injury, no way to tell if he'll ever return to form he's at not let alone progress.

People sit and claim injuries on the o-line have been a huge problem for this team, outside of Wood, does it matter? Replacing a bum with another bum is the same end result.

I personally believe that 4 of the 5 OTs shouldn't be in the league let alone the fact that right now, two of them have to start. Bell, Scott, Chambers, Meredith are all brutal. Brutal is putting it nicely.

McKinney is good depth.

Hangartner is an upgrade over Fowler but then again so would a stiff breeze.

We need replacements at at least 3 of the 5 spots on the o-line and possibly 4 depending on Woods' recovery.

I'd be more than happy going into next season with...

New LT-Levitre-Hangartner-Wood-Butler
New LT-Levitre-Wood-Incognito-Bell
New LT-Levitre-Hangartner-Incognito-Butler
New LT-Butler-Wood-Incognito-Bell

Or some semblance of the above, as long as Wood heals and Incognito can stay out of trouble on the field, with 3 or four solid back-ups from the rest of the guys X mentioned.

We've got a ****-ton of guys that can play guard, RT and C will be OK, but we really need an anchor at LT.

[X-Era]

I'd be more than happy going into next season with...

New LT-Levitre-Hangartner-Wood-Butler
New LT-Levitre-Wood-Incognito-Bell
New LT-Levitre-Hangartner-Incognito-Butler
New LT-Butler-Wood-Incognito-Bell

Or some semblance of the above, as long as Wood heals and Incognito can stay out of trouble on the field, with 3 or four solid back-ups from the rest of the guys X mentioned.

We've got a ****-ton of guys that can play guard, RT and C will be OK, but we really need an anchor at LT.

Totally agree.

I think, if we draft the right guy, a franchise LT could make this O line pretty damn good. But, I dont see any of our current OT's being that great of a prospect as our future LT. Bell just cant seem to keep his head in the game and knock off all the false starts.

[yordad]

I want a shinny new QB and the biggest reason is because I think the line shows much more potential then any QB we've seen play.

[X-Era]

I want a shinny new QB and the biggest reason is because I think the line shows much more potential then any QB we've seen play.
Dont sleep on Brohm... I was a huge fan coming out of college... the kid can play. I want to see him on the field before just discarding him or benching him outright.

From 2006:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=112440&highlight=brohm

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=108481&highlight=brohm

[Oaf]

Of course just my opinion, but I felt most of your player synopses were a little too far on the positive side. I think the whole injury thing has taken away from their personal accountability for breakdowns in play.

I see too many instances of "solid", "valuable experience", "has shown upside" where I have failed to see nearly any of that this season from the group.

[X-Era]

Of course just my opinion, but I felt most of your player synopses were a little too far on the positive side. I think the whole injury thing has taken away from their personal accountability for breakdowns in play.

I see too many instances of "solid", "valuable experience", "has shown upside" where I have failed to see nearly any of that this season from the group.

"solid"- A player who has at least shown an ability to be solid in the run game and solid in the pass game. That does not mean 100% of the time, but most of the time, more like 75-80% of the time.

"valuable experience"- When a player has more than zero starts which is our standard requirement for our primary backups and/or starters.

"has shown upside"- A young player who has shown that they can, even in a brief instance of brilliance, be a very good player. That is not to say they do it 100% of the time, more like they do it 10-20% of the time, but at least have shown they can do it at all. And most importantly, may be able to learn to do it much more often.

Ill take it one step farther:

"breakdown"- When your "valuable experience", "solid" play, and "upside" gets overmatched. IMO, many of these players, with a "real" head coach, with "real" schemes, and when we stay healthy, will have minimal "breakdowns".

[jimbohastle51]

we will definitely have incognito next season since he is a RFA and too talented to not keep around as cheap as he will be so i love our interior line next year. levitre and incognito as the guards and wood as our center, that leaves hangartner as depth at all 3 interior positions. wood should be our center anyways, its his natural position and with incognito now it would give us one of the best c/g's combos in all of the NFL. sign one tackle vetran and take one in the draft and between chambers butler and bell we have a swing backup tackle already on the roster as well.

[bigbub2352]

to be honest i think that next yr we could have a nasty and solid Oline, has anyone gicen thought to Wood going back to his natural position of C and maybe seeing Hang gone next yr?
Hang has struggled and even thou he is a major upgrade from Fowler has been overpowered in the run game and given up sacks as well
It is a young Oline and his cast is now forever changing
but...

A Drafted or signed vet at LT and then Levitre Wood INcognito and Butler would be one of the physical Oline's out there

Also i agree that Meredith and Bell, and Simmons would provide excellent depth next yr and Scott and Chanbers need to go as well as Chrisitan Gaddis
Sign and draft a depth player as well

[kernowboy]

I think if we stay where we are then the pick has to be BRUCE CAMPBELL.

I doubt Okung will slide out of the Top6.

Williams has really struggled at LT having previously been on the right side and the question is could he be a starting NFL LT?

Bulaga, Charles Brown and Anthony Davis are other guys mentioned but I see them going in the 12-24 range

I see a line then of R1 - Levitre - Wood - Incognito - Butler with depth in Hangartner C/G, Meredith G/T, Bell LT, and Scott RT all with starting experience. Another option would be to move Levitre to RG, have Hangartner at LG where he played well for the Panthers and have that experience alongside the rookie.

[X-Era]

I think if we stay where we are then the pick has to be BRUCE CAMPBELL.

I doubt Okung will slide out of the Top6.

Williams has really struggled at LT having previously been on the right side and the question is could he be a starting NFL LT?

Bulaga, Charles Brown and Anthony Davis are other guys mentioned but I see them going in the 12-24 range

I see a line then of R1 - Levitre - Wood - Incognito - Butler with depth in Hangartner C/G, Meredith G/T, Bell LT, and Scott RT all with starting experience. Another option would be to move Levitre to RG, have Hangartner at LG where he played well for the Panthers and have that experience alongside the rookie.

To me, and others may disagree, Trent Williams is every bit athletic enough to man the LT spot. He has been very consistent there. He is not as athletic as Campbell or Okung, but hes a close second. Put it this way, hes much more athletic than Langston Walker was.

Theres too ways to get owned by a DE, you can get pushed out of the way, or you can get beat around the edge. I think he has the athleticism, and strength to be able to handle the majority of NFL DE's... now whether he uses his abilities properly when he gets to the NFL? That's another story. To me, hes got the size, strength, and quickness you need.

[X-Era]

I think if we stay where we are then the pick has to be BRUCE CAMPBELL.

I doubt Okung will slide out of the Top6.

Williams has really struggled at LT having previously been on the right side and the question is could he be a starting NFL LT?

Bulaga, Charles Brown and Anthony Davis are other guys mentioned but I see them going in the 12-24 range

I see a line then of R1 - Levitre - Wood - Incognito - Butler with depth in Hangartner C/G, Meredith G/T, Bell LT, and Scott RT all with starting experience. Another option would be to move Levitre to RG, have Hangartner at LG where he played well for the Panthers and have that experience alongside the rookie.

I want to go back and watch even more tape on Bulaga and Brown. Anthony Davis starts at LT and can man the spot... hes another guy that's athletic enough, big enough, and strong enough. Like, Campbell, hes just very raw.

[kernowboy]

For me and reading the scouting reports

Charles Brown could be too light and be easily bull rushed.
Bryan Bulaga could be a early career Backus - good but not exceptional.
Anthony Davis I've heard has issues about pass protection which I've read from several sources.
Trent Williams has only played LT this year moving over from RT so Campbell has more starting LT experience.

My concern about Williams is that he has the potential but lacks the mentality to bring it all together.

[Typ0]

I thought that DJ decided to take one for the team this season right at the beginning drafting and doing what they did. They tried to fix the OLine in one season for the long haul. It remains to be seen if it worked but that's what they did with these young guys.

[yordad]

Dont sleep on Brohm... I was a huge fan coming out of college... the kid can play. I want to see him on the field before just discarding him or benching him outright.

From 2006:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=112440&highlight=brohm

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=108481&highlight=brohmI am not sleeping on Brohm.... they are. That is why I worded it that way. But, do you think I want to put my seasons eggs in the basket of a guy they wont let us see? If anything, I would love to get the Chargers FA LT, and then draft a QB in each of the first three rounds. Lets bring them all in, cut Wendling, and role with 4 QBS. Lets give them each four games in '10 as the starter, and pick our future franchise QB from there.

Seriously, something drastic has to be done to get as a franchise QB.

[Yasgur's Farm]

'10 O-line the way I see it...

LT - FA, Bell
LG - Levitre, Hangartner
C - Wood, Hangartner
RG - Incognito, Simmons (or rookie)
RT - Butler, Meredith

[Typ0]

I am not sleeping on Brohm.... they are. That is why I worded it that way. But, do you think I want to put my seasons eggs in the basket of a guy they wont let us see? If anything, I would love to get the Chargers FA LT, and then draft a QB in each of the first three rounds. Lets bring them all in, cut Wendling, and role with 4 QBS. Lets give them each four games in '10 as the starter, and pick our future franchise QB from there.

Seriously, something drastic has to be done to get as a franchise QB.


Why don't you just start attending practices then. They can see 80% or more of what they have to see from these guys in practice to tell whose going to be best on game day. They aren't going to put up a poll every week and let the fans decide who to start based on last weeks performance. You keep acting like they need to play people because it's your right to see them play so you can be the one to make a talent evaluation. That is not your role. Get with the program.

[kernowboy]

Due to injury is has been speculated that the Chargers no longer feel that McNeill can play LT and are looking to move him to RT

FA options

1. Sign McNeill to massive money and discover he can't play LT
2. Sign a waste of space like Alex Barron and wait for our QB to go on IR

or actually draft someone in R1 quipped to do the job.

There is only one intelligent option

[yordad]

Why don't you just start attending practices then. They can see 80% or more of what they have to see from these guys in practice to tell whose going to be best on game day. They aren't going to put up a poll every week and let the fans decide who to start based on last weeks performance. You keep acting like they need to play people because it's your right to see them play so you can be the one to make a talent evaluation. That is not your role. Get with the program.WTF are you going on about? I am a fan. I think it is in there best interest, and mine as a fan, to see what the guy they got is capable of prior to drafting his replacement. Kind of seems logical. Guys start all the time with less experience, you act as if it would be some sort of ground breaking move to start a second year second round pick.

But, I suppose Fitz is lighting it up, and they shouldn't fix it if it isn't broken, by your logic, huh?

I honestly don't care who is going to be the best on the next game day. I just want to see if our new QB can show any promise what so ever.

IMO, it is in THEIR best interest. Get with the program. Besides, aren't you the guy who told me it was an idotic notion that Fitz could earn the starting job after 2 lackluster performances, and now you are sticking by those that made that decision?

Duh dude. Please try and savage some sort of credibility by at least remaining consistent. First, I am wrong, then the coaches agree with me, yet somehow in your opinion I was still wrong, but they are right? Please just try and follow along with your own arguments.

[yordad]

Due to injury is has been speculated that the Chargers no longer feel that McNeill can play LT and are looking to move him to RT

FA options

1. Sign McNeill to massive money and discover he can't play LT
2. Sign a waste of space like Alex Barron and wait for our QB to go on IR

or actually draft someone in R1 quipped to do the job.

There is only one intelligent optionHow in the hell are those the only 2 options simply because there has been some "speculation".

[Typ0]

you are just so ignorant it's amazing. What I said was the coaches and the staff have seen Brohm on the field this year. They have seen him on the field and you have not. They have decided that he's not ready to play in a game based on what they've seen. If they thought he was I think they would be considering it but they aren't. The thing I am addressing with my post if that you haven't seen anything of this guy and you banter on and on about how he should play so you can see him play. Get a frigging clue you try and hide all your crap by creating more crap to wade through.


On your other BS point I've explained before that Fitz did not earn the starting job. He did not play better than TE. However, there is a reason that he is starting that we can't really see as fans and that's why the decision was made. I expect that reason is Wilson sent the directive that TE was to be pulled. But I don't know because I am a fan the only thing I know is that RF did not outperform TE if anything he's done way more to lose games for us that TE did. It just so happens we've won some of those games because opposing teams have done more to lose those games. That's this fans opinion and it's based on what we've actually seen and doesn't claim I have a right to see more so I can make my own decision. Man, I'm so glad I don't work with idiots like you.


WTF are you going on about? I am a fan. I think it is in there best interest, and mine as a fan, to see what the guy they got is capable of prior to drafting his replacement. Kind of seems logical. Guys start all the time with less experience, you act as if it would be some sort of ground breaking move to start a second year second round pick.

But, I suppose Fitz is lighting it up, and they shouldn't fix it if it isn't broken, by your logic, huh?

I honestly don't care who is going to be the best on the next game day. I just want to see if our new QB can show any promise what so ever.

IMO, it is in THEIR best interest. Get with the program. Besides, aren't you the guy who told me it was an idotic notion that Fitz could earn the starting job after 2 lackluster performances, and now you are sticking by those that made that decision?

Duh dude. Please try and savage some sort of credibility by at least remaining consistent. First, I am wrong, then the coaches agree with me, yet somehow in your opinion I was still wrong, but they are right? Please just try and follow along with your own arguments.

[yordad]

you are just so ignorant it's amazing. What I said was the coaches and the staff have seen Brohm on the field this year. They have seen him on the field and you have not. They have decided that he's not ready to play in a game based on what they've seen. If they thought he was I think they would be considering it but they aren't. The thing I am addressing with my post if that you haven't seen anything of this guy and you banter on and on about how he should play so you can see him play. Get a frigging clue you try and hide all your crap by creating more crap to wade through.


On your other BS point I've explained before that Fitz did not earn the starting job. He did not play better than TE. However, there is a reason that he is starting that we can't really see as fans and that's why the decision was made. I expect that reason is Wilson sent the directive that TE was to be pulled. But I don't know because I am a fan the only thing I know is that RF did not outperform TE if anything he's done way more to lose games for us that TE did. It just so happens we've won some of those games because opposing teams have done more to lose those games. That's this fans opinion and it's based on what we've actually seen and doesn't claim I have a right to see more so I can make my own decision. Man, I'm so glad I don't work with idiots like you.Yes. I am ignorant. I do not know what he is capable of, and I freely admit that is the problem. The fact that you think you are not ignorant in the matter shows that you are ignorant about your ignorance in addition to being far more ignorant. :peace:

[yordad]

I do not care if Brohm gives the Bills the best chance right now. I care if he can show promise. Not complicated Typo.

BTW, If we worked together, I would be your boss, and most likely fire your lack of logic having ass.

[Typ0]

And I care that he get the proper opportunity to develop so we can really have a chance on getting a return on the investment instead of just doing something for the sake of doing something.

As far as you being my boss I would never except that job and I feel sorry for the people who do. Your comments continually speak to the arrogant ignorant ass you are.


I do not care if Brohm gives the Bills the best chance right now. I care if he can show promise. Not complicated Typo.

BTW, If we worked together, I would be your boss, and most likely fire your lack of logic having ass.

[yordad]

And I care that he get the proper opportunity to develop so we can really have a chance on getting a return on the investment instead of just doing something for the sake of doing something.

As far as you being my boss I would never except that job and I feel sorry for the people who do. Your comments continually speak to the arrogant ignorant ass you are.Who cares. Don't take your inferiority problem out on me. I don't care to hear about it. If you have lingering feelings against the guy who dated the head cheerleader from high school, take it up with him. I don't want to get personal with you. Get it? No coffee. Get over it.

As far as developing, I feel the best way is live fire. You clearly don't. Matter of opinion, but because mine is different I am ignorant? Are all those that share my opinion "ignorant"?

You say our coaches are "idiotic" yet we should have blind faith? Um... hello! Clearly our TEMPORARY COACH has a different agenda. But you go ahead and leave your faith in those you call "idiotic".

Doing something for the sake of doing something, IMO, is better then doing nothing. Some QBs are GAME TIME QBs. Best under pressure. And, I don't know if you know, but dude looked A-OK in his last preseason outing.

I want to take some of the remaining limited time to assess our QB position as accurately and fully as we can at this point, how you could possible think it is in the teams best long term interest to not do that is beyond me. But, I didn't call you names becasue you have a different opinion. Grow up you old fart.

[PECKERWOOD]

Incognito is fat, sloppy and a liability as a starter. He isn't a good hire, if St. Louis doesn't want him, that means something.

[justasportsfan]

WTF are you going on about? I am a fan. I think it is in there best interest, and mine as a fan, to see what the guy they got is capable of prior to drafting his replacement. Kind of seems logical. Guys start all the time with less experience, you act as if it would be some sort of ground breaking move to start a second year second round pick.

But, I suppose Fitz is lighting it up, and they shouldn't fix it if it isn't broken, by your logic, huh?

I honestly don't care who is going to be the best on the next game day. I just want to see if our new QB can show any promise what so ever.

IMO, it is in THEIR best interest. Get with the program. Besides, aren't you the guy who told me it was an idotic notion that Fitz could earn the starting job after 2 lackluster performances, and now you are sticking by those that made that decision?

Duh dude. Please try and savage some sort of credibility by at least remaining consistent. First, I am wrong, then the coaches agree with me, yet somehow in your opinion I was still wrong, but they are right? Please just try and follow along with your own arguments.your interest takes the backseat of fewell's interest.

Are you serious about drafting 3 qb's in the first 3 rds?

[yordad]

your interest takes the backseat of fewell's interest.

Are you serious about drafting 3 qb's in the first 3 rds?Naw man, I'm serious about focusing on QB though and doing whatever it takes to find a competent long term solution.

Problem is, I think the Bills' long term interest is taking a backseat to Fewell's interest.

[Typ0]

I'm sure there are more fans but I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone in football that thinks the best way to develop a QB in the NFL is by throwing them into the fire. Even the people that do it will tell you it's not their preferred method. The fact is the game is very fast and if someone isn't ready they are not going to be successful. Putting someone in a situation where they are destined to failure is not a good situation at all. Additionally, the position is very important and it destines other people to failure too. In short, it's pretty dumb to throw someone out there in a real game to get killed by a defender just because you want to "see what they can do". I guess you forget the lb difference between the people that are driving them into the ground and the QB.

As far as your inferiority complex problem coming from you it's really hillarious. That, along with your, my dong is bigger than your dong stuff, really shows where the complex lies and the reason for it.


Who cares. Don't take your inferiority problem out on me. I don't care to hear about it. If you have lingering feelings against the guy who dated the head cheerleader from high school, take it up with him. I don't want to get personal with you. Get it? No coffee. Get over it.

As far as developing, I feel the best way is live fire. You clearly don't. Matter of opinion, but because mine is different I am ignorant? Are all those that share my opinion "ignorant"?

You say our coaches are "idiotic" yet we should have blind faith? Um... hello! Clearly our TEMPORARY COACH has a different agenda. But you go ahead and leave your faith in those you call "idiotic".

Doing something for the sake of doing something, IMO, is better then doing nothing. Some QBs are GAME TIME QBs. Best under pressure. And, I don't know if you know, but dude looked A-OK in his last preseason outing.

I want to take some of the remaining limited time to assess our QB position as accurately and fully as we can at this point, how you could possible think it is in the teams best long term interest to not do that is beyond me. But, I didn't call you names becasue you have a different opinion. Grow up you old fart.

[Typ0]

The Bills long term interest should be centered around getting the best talent in here to start mini-camps in the offseason...


Naw man, I'm serious about focusing on QB though and doing whatever it takes to find a competent long term solution.

Problem is, I think the Bills' long term interest is taking a backseat to Fewell's interest.

[yordad]

I'm sure there are more fans but I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone in football that thinks the best way to develop a QB in the NFL is by throwing them into the fire. Even the people that do it will tell you it's not their preferred method. The fact is the game is very fast and if someone isn't ready they are not going to be successful. Putting someone in a situation where they are destined to failure is not a good situation at all. Additionally, the position is very important and it destines other people to failure too. In short, it's pretty dumb to throw someone out there in a real game to get killed by a defender just because you want to "see what they can do". I guess you forget the lb difference between the people that are driving them into the ground and the QB.

As far as your inferiority complex problem coming from you it's really hillarious. That, along with your, my dong is bigger than your dong stuff, really shows where the complex lies and the reason for it.The Bills do not have the luxury of the "preferred method". I am sure the "preferred method" would start with a competent QB every single time as opposed to the worst starting QB in the league.

Again, getting personal. If dongs is your fixation, check out your local Blue Oyster Club and get off my jock you jolly English cigarette.

[Typ0]

Again shifting reality around with your BS. Here is the post I read earlier folks you make the call:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=183918&page=14


The Bills do not have the luxury of the "preferred method". I am sure the "preferred method" would start with a competent QB every single time as opposed to the worst starting QB in the league.

Again, getting personal. If dongs is your fixation, check out your local Blue Oyster Club and get off my jock you jolly English cigarette.

[Typ0]

I thought the "****** Vs. The World" idea was right on by the way.

[X-Era]

Why is this so heated? I think we can debate something without the name calling.

[Typ0]

Why is this so heated? I think we can debate something without the name calling.


I probably started it in this case but it's a response to his general ignorance and arrogant insulting way of talking to people all over the place.

[yordad]

I thought the "****** Vs. The World" idea was right on by the way.The you apparently have a very sheltered life with no real idea of what the world is, AND you have no idea what the definition if ****** is.

But, I'm not surprised. I crazy person rarely realizes they are crazy, so I wouldn't expect your ****** self to realize your ******ation.

BTW, he who is a ****** has an IQ less than 70. But hey, you made it this long, I am sure you can make it a few more years. Well, until you die do to your weight and cholesterol problem you old, fat, bald, POS.

BTW, your not going to hurt my feelings considering I can beat YOU in ANYTHING, but I am sure you are lonely and bored enough to try.

Just try not to ruin this thread, becasue despite your attacking, close minded replies, this thread isn't bad.

[yordad]

Why is this so heated? I think we can debate something without the name calling.Why are you quote me rather than the original insulter?

[yordad]

Again shifting reality around with your BS. Here is the post I read earlier folks you make the call:

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=183918&page=14What are you doing, providing proof you are fixated?

[Typ0]

Why are you quote me rather than the original insulter?

pretty natural responsibility because of the way you talk and behave on the boards.

[X-Era]

Why are you quote me rather than the original insulter?

My apologies, its was meant to be a generalized response. I'm sorry. Should have used the quick reply feature instead.

[yordad]

pretty natural responsibility because of the way you talk and behave on the boards.What? You got pissy with me. First in this thread, and first with me overall. I do not care that you cannot see your wang, I am trying to have a football conversation here.

[Typ0]

There you go assuming you know things about people that you don't. Just like you assume you know something about Brohm that you don't. You just keep making my points over and over for the world other than yordad.


The you apparently have a very sheltered life with no real idea of what the world is, AND you have no idea what the definition if ****** is.

But, I'm not surprised. I crazy person rarely realizes they are crazy, so I wouldn't expect your ****** self to realize your ******ation.

BTW, he who is a ****** has an IQ less than 70. But hey, you made it this long, I am sure you can make it a few more years. Well, until you die do to your weight and cholesterol problem you old, fat, bald, POS.

BTW, your not going to hurt my feelings considering I can beat YOU in ANYTHING, but I am sure you are lonely and bored enough to try.

Just try not to ruin this thread, becasue despite your attacking, close minded replies, this thread isn't bad.

[X-Era]

pretty natural responsibility because of the way you talk and behave on the boards.

Its Saturday, I put in 58.5 hours this week, college football is on, lets just drink a beer and move on. :beer:

[Typ0]

it's ok. I don't expect emotionally immature people to understand how stupid they behave. I would never expect you to understand how insulting your line of communication is sometimes to mature people.


What? You got pissy with me. First in this thread, and first with me overall. I do not care that you cannot see your wang, I am trying to have a football conversation here.

[yordad]

There you go assuming you know things about people that you don't. Just like you assume you know something about Brohm that you don't. You just keep making my points over and over for the world other than yordad.What, is your point, that you are a hypocrite? I swear you are talking about yourself in this.

[Typ0]

Its Saturday, I put in 58.5 hours this week, college football is on, lets just drink a beer and move on. :beer:


I thought earlier I was just going to put him and another on ignore...but they are providing a great deal of the conversation and was worried the site would get boring. Maybe I should just put this one on ignore because he truly is ignorant as I'm sure most of the rest of the patrons would agree.

[yordad]

it's ok. I don't expect emotionally immature people to understand how stupid they behave. I would never expect you to understand how insulting your line of communication is sometimes to mature people.Let me know when you are mature enough for me to take offending you seriously.

[yordad]

I thought earlier I was just going to put him and another on ignore...but they are providing a great deal of the conversation and was worried the site would get boring. Maybe I should just put this one on ignore because he truly is ignorant as I'm sure most of the rest of the patrons would agree.You and the word "ignorant", you use it so much you can't possible know what it means. I would appreciate you putting me on ignore actually.

[Typ0]

What, is your point, that you are a hypocrite? I swear you are talking about yourself in this.


well lets see. You started off with if we were in a work situation that you would be my boss. That's very unlikely because I don't work with people as unprofessional as you.

Then you went on to indicate I am a ****** and lead a sheltered life. Sorry, wrong again. Same with me being lonely and bored.

As far as being fat and bald you got that right...and i'm definetely aging. So you can look at a picture and attack people pretty well. You don't have the balls to put your pic on the sight of course.

[Typ0]

You and the word "ignorant", you use it so much you can't possible know what it means. I would appreciate you putting me on ignore actually.


a great definition for ignorant is yordad.

[X-Era]

Seriously, cant we just cool down a bit?

[Typ0]

I'm leaving for a while. I'm not hot anyway just pointing out this travesty of a person.

[yordad]

well lets see. You started off with if we were in a work situation that you would be my boss. That's very unlikely because I don't work with people as unprofessional as you.

Then you went on to indicate I am a ****** and lead a sheltered life. Sorry, wrong again. Same with me being lonely and bored.

As far as being fat and bald you got that right...and i'm definetely aging. So you can look at a picture and attack people pretty well. You don't have the balls to put your pic on the sight of course.Why, so you can put your fascination with my jock together with a face you perv? I am dead sexy. A pic of me would shut you up longer than lockjaw.

[yordad]

I'm leaving for a while. I'm not hot anyway just pointing out this travesty of a person.For all you know I adopt orphans and save Dolphins you *****.

[X-Era]

For all you know I adopt orphans and save Dolphins you *****.
Not cool man.

[yordad]

Seriously, cant we just cool down a bit?Yes. I apologize to everyone who read my post in this thread, other than Typo. And if Typo honestly thinks yordad = ignorant, then all he has to do is put me on ignore, end of conversation.

[yordad]

Not cool man.He just called me a travesty of a person. :refuse:

[X-Era]

He just called me a travesty of a person. :refuse:

Let me add... none of this back and forth was cool, from either side.

[yordad]

Let me add... none of this back and forth was cool, from either side.Well, I agree.

[Yasgur's Farm]

:peace: :beer: :beers: :drunks: :buddies: :cheers:
:console: :bighug: :respect::dancers: :makeout: :smooch:
:pet: :hi5: :kissa: :holdhand: :shake:
Perhaps a few make-up PM's are in order.

[Typ0]

if I had the time I could dig up a hundred or more unprovoked personal attacks from yordad and a thousand or more examples of stupidity. Even his insulting conduct on this thread is a testament to his behavior overall on the boards. Was it cool? Not really. But standing by just ignoring the fool isn't a good strategy either.

[yordad]

if I had the time I could dig up a hundred or more unprovoked personal attacks from yordad and a thousand or more examples of stupidity. Even his insulting conduct on this thread is a testament to his behavior overall on the boards. Was it cool? Not really. But standing by just ignoring the fool isn't a good strategy either.You can't dig up a single unprovoked personal attack. This thread is a testament to your overall behavior you hypocrite. You provoked me.

[X-Era]

OK, this crap is off topic... cant you guys just start up a thread in the Smack Zone?

[Typ0]

What was the topic again?

[yordad]

Here is an unprovoked insulting post of your from quite some time ago. First, you didn't grasp the argument.
I had to delve back and see what was going on here. Apparently, yordad has offered up a bet to Griff that Fitz would have a better YPA in the next ONE GAME than TE has the entire season. He's gone on and on about how this is a valid method of comparison.

And then yordad went on to proclaim that real world math was his forte.

The world is in serious trouble if yordad is going our statistical analysis.link (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=3041165&postcount=219)
Then, more insults.....

No, I absolutely do see your half assed logic as usual. I did not say using less TE games would be more representative of the population. What I said was if you are going to compare one game for Fitz it would be just as accurate to use ONE game for TE. Why ONE game? That's your boneheaded attempt to sway the outcome in your favor! Yes, of course he could have a crappy game too and in that case it would backfire...which is more likely because he has more crappy games than good ones.

If you were going to try and make the best prediction of something about TE then yes, you would use all of the available data and it would give you a higher level of significance.

However, you aren’t trying to predict anything in the future for TE you are trying to take an average from all of his observations and compare it to one observation from Fitz and call that an average. Why do you want to use all of TEs data and only one observation from RF? Because RFs average is about ½ of that of TE so you lose the bet.

I’ve seen a lot of bad research in my time. I can only surmise by your tactics that your one of the “make sure it tells the story people want to here” types of mathmeticians.

It's sad that I wouldn't be surprised at all if he worked with stats in his job...I have seen so many idiots hire other idiots with BAs to do data analysis. It's like the blind leading the blind.

Then, 77 replies later, and countless insults, it dawned on you I was right..

Why would you want to throw away good data that helps to paint the picture you are trying to paint? You don't do that. link (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=3047286&postcount=296)

So, you are here calling me stupid. And, your hostility is, from what I can tell, based on this thread. A thread where you called me an idiot several times, UNPROVOKED BY ME WITHOUT RETALIATION. A thread where you were calling me an idiot for disagreeing with Griff when he said less info was more accurate. A thread where you assumed I was saying Fitz deserved to start for a single games performance and called me an idiot for it, and said no NFL coach would see things the way you assumed I did.

AND THEN FITZ WAS NAMED STARTER, Further proving you wrong. Admit it, this stuck in your crawl, and because you were clearly 100% wrong, you are now calling me stupid? Wake up.

You attacked me about 50 times before I fired back.

[Typ0]

You proclaimed that you use statistics in your life all the time so you are a pro. But your whole model was not based on good statistics. I called you on it. Your response was to call me stupid (not posted here go look at the thread yourself).

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you yordad. Find someone else.

[yordad]

:peace: :beer: :beers: :drunks: :buddies: :cheers:
:console: :bighug: :respect::dancers: :makeout: :smooch:
:pet: :hi5: :kissa: :holdhand: :shake:
Perhaps a few make-up PM's are in order.I tried once with him before. He has been rude to me for quite sometime. I couldn't figure out why, and my only guess is becasue he is bffs with SABS the Losman fan hater. If you look, you will see that I bought him a beer gift once also.

[yordad]

You proclaimed that you use statistics in your life all the time so you are a pro. But your whole model was not based on good statistics. I called you on it. Your response was to call me stupid (not posted here go look at the thread yourself).

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you yordad. Find someone else.2 LIES HERE! I provided links to that thread. Please, LIAR, show where I called you stupid? I showed you were stupid, but I never called you it...

OMG dude. This isn't complicated. Trent has compiled several games worth of stats. We knew what his YPA and his passer rating was for the year thus far. I offered to bet his KNOWN yearly averages to one UNKNOWN game for Fitz.

YOU are trying to tell me using one game for TE gives us some sort of better comparison??? THAT MAKES ZERO SENSE. HOW would that be my "boneheaded attempt to sway the outcome"?????

How would you choose the one game for Trent?? And how on earth would ignoring his other complied stats be MORE accurate??

Your argument would make sense IF I offered to compare total passing yards, or TDs thrown, or times sacked, or some other thing not based on average (example of an "averages" based stat: with the words "PER" pass). But when comparing a stat like "YARDS PER ATTEMPT" the sample sizes do not have to be equal. ANYONE with half of a mathematically inclined brain would realize you would take ALL of Trent's available statistical information if you intend to make the most accurate comparison you can.
.................
Because I was offering to make a bet. I did not say it is conclusive proof Fitz is better. It was for betting purposes. IN FACT, if you did read the thread, you would have seen where I also offered to INCLUDE Fitz's past stats, if he instead wanted to bet on that.

I was trying to make the best prediction for Trent- that is the point. My best prediction of how Trent WOULD HAVE PERFORMED to how FITZ ACTUALLY PERFORMS.

Get it? Is the light bulb going on?

"Best possible prediction for Trent based on actual past performances" VS "Unknown stats of what Fitz will do".

THAT IS WHY I MADE THE OFFER ABOUT PASSER RATING AND YARDS PER ATTEMPT. HE WAS ARGUING INCORRECTLY THAT I NEEDED AN EQUAL DATA POOL.

Not only do you apparently not understand the nature of these stats, you apparently cannot comprehend the bet either. A BET HE DIDN'T EVEN ACCEPT (thankfully, because I would have paid him, and he wouldn't have even understood why). Even worst, you apparently can't even comprehend what we are even arguing about.
..........
How am I twisting a stat that didn't exist at the time I offered to bet? This entire conversation started when Griff said we should only look at a portion of Trent's passes, AND YOU ARE AGREEING WITH HIM. You apparently agree that only looking at SOME OF Trent's existing info is MORE accurate, otherwise you would be agreeing with me.

Also, I never said I was a "pro" at statistics. I said....

Real world math is my specialty.and

Do I really need to be a statistician to have a better understanding than you of how math and stats are used in the "real world"?
and

I am not a statistician, and I am trying to prove nothing about myself. Plus, how the hell can you call me out? All you know about me is what I allow you to know.

I even asked for your admittance I was right in that thread.

Now your twisting it into I hate Edwards? My bet offer didn't make sense because I hate Edwards? Why would I hate Edwards, he is our best QB, and I don't think he'd make a bad politician someday. The Only thing I don't like about him is he sucks.

No matter what my reasoning was, my bet offer was no more idiotic then any other zbs bet offer. You insulted my intelligence about 12 times in this thread, and the entire time, YOU WERE WRONG. You have been verbally attacking me because of your preconceived idea that I hate Trent.

Well, my "feelings" toward Trent have no effect on my math or logic. And, I think it is about time you manned up and said "You're right yordad, and you were right the whole time."

In fact, someone asked YOU why YOU were so bitter all the time. link (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?p=3046096&postcount=266)

I even summarized for you.

One observation for the bet?? And as far as "one for starter", I'm pretty sure if Fitz was 3-0 right now, you wouldn't be calling 85% of the board "idiotic". Nice try on the cover though.

You were agreeing with Griff, and against me, when Griff wanted to reduce the information we have on Trent to equal the information we have on Fitz. This is his version of "real world math". You went on to say "And then yordad went on to proclaim that real world math was his forte."

It is a fact you two were wrong.

Now, what one chooses to do with that information is a matter of opinion. It was NOT a fact that if Fitz plays in 3 wins in a row, that the Bills would automatically start Trent post bye. And, even if they started Trent, it isn't a fact that decision would have been league wide unanimous.

You got showed IN SLOW MOTION, that you facts were wrong, so now my loose opinion was idiocy?

Why the hell have we been typing back and forth for 5 pages, you just had to say you disagree, if that was the case you were making.

Now your all huffy because you insulted my facts, simply because you were lacking in the reading comprehension. IT TOOK YOU 5 PAGES TO REALIZE WHAT GRIFF WAS SAYING, AND WHAT WE WERE EVEN ARGUING ABOUT. NOW YOU ARE TRYING TO SAVE FACE BY CALLING MY OPINION IDIOTIC?

I bet if you took a poll prior to the Texans game, many on here would have voted for Trent "If the Bills win three and a row, and Fitz out performed Edwards averages".

And, if Edwards was SOOO far ahead of Fitz, why was Edwards YANKED AT THE END OF THE GAME??

Take your opinion and stick it. You were completely wrong in this thread. And, you should be admitting it, and apologizing.