Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

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  • Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

    Reading about the possible swap to this alignment it seems the prototypical NT for this defence is:

    6ft2, 330lbs with a 40time of 5.25.

    I wonder if we confuse size with strength and whether it might be possible to draft a smaller NT who by technique and agility be a top NT for our team.

    For many years the Denver OL was outmatched size wise with almost every opponent but usually came out on top, and also I hear that some of the bigger NTs were essentially two down players who wear down very quickly.

    Arthur Jones, 6ft4 and 295lbs is being considered as a 4-3 DT, or a 3-4 DE but I wonder if he might equally suit a 3-4 NT where he plays in college.

    He seems to be mostly muscle, extremely strong due a wrestling background and be more than capable as a NT. And he can probably add another 8-15lbs without too much trouble

    Guys like Kelly Gregg, Jay Ratliff and Chris Hoke are not the text book behemoths we are told are required at NT such as Wilfork and Jamal Williams, but have been more the adequate in the middle and maybe we need to think outside of the box, and rather than 3 fat men, look to draft players here with genuine athletic ability
    Last edited by Guest; 12-19-2009, 01:01 PM.
  • yordad
    Registered User
    • Dec 2007
    • 11867

    #2
    Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

    yes
    "Heck, now I am glad his overrated arce made the pro bowl, else we would have only got a 3rd." ~ yordad

    "I've just been hit with a piece of sky. " ~ yordad

    "Forgive my opinion, but...." ~ yordad

    "Warning: I might be hammered." ~ yordad

    "I don't care if the word is "your" or "you're", so buzz off. Its (it's) a frickin(') message board." ~ yordad

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    • Pinkerton Security
      Pinkerton's son
      • Feb 2006
      • 6003

      #3
      Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

      Originally posted by yordad
      yes
      id say its more important that the NT can occupy multiple O-linemen, size basically just helps that

      Comment

      • yordad
        Registered User
        • Dec 2007
        • 11867

        #4
        Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

        Originally posted by pinkdogg32
        id say its more important that the NT can occupy multiple O-linemen, size basically just helps that
        Yes. I believe mass would be one of the biggest things to help that. Strength and a low center of gravity would help also, but only combined with size.
        "Heck, now I am glad his overrated arce made the pro bowl, else we would have only got a 3rd." ~ yordad

        "I've just been hit with a piece of sky. " ~ yordad

        "Forgive my opinion, but...." ~ yordad

        "Warning: I might be hammered." ~ yordad

        "I don't care if the word is "your" or "you're", so buzz off. Its (it's) a frickin(') message board." ~ yordad

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        • Night Train
          Retired - On Several Levels
          • Jul 2005
          • 33117

          #5
          Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

          The success track for DT seems to be a 320 lb. min with the ability to tie up and beat the double team. I'm not sure Stroud could be that guy.

          A 3-4 would mean we'd need at least 2-3 new LB's. 1-2 DE's...I'm not against the D itself but looking at the roster it increases our needs and we're already maxed out on needs, IMO.

          The 4-3 seems more realistic and easier to adjust to.
          Anonymity is an abused privilege, abused most by people who mistake vitriol for wisdom and cynicism for wit

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          • BillsWin
            man amongst boys
            • Oct 2008
            • 6025

            #6
            Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

            Yes, the 3-4 NT must have enough size and strength to occupy the space in between the center and guards. Often times they must handle double teams and even triple. Size matters when it comes to a 3-4 DT because it helps them do this. Add in the skill it takes to make a play from that position and you have the type of player you need.
            I am The Batman.

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            • #7
              Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

              But aren't we overlooking several NT who don't have such prototypical size but enjoy success at the risk of overdrafting guys based purely on size?

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              • yordad
                Registered User
                • Dec 2007
                • 11867

                #8
                Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

                Originally posted by kernowboy
                But aren't we overlooking several NT who don't have such prototypical size but enjoy success at the risk of overdrafting guys based purely on size?
                No matter how ya slice it you are going to take a risk. I think taking that risk on someone who is undersized would be the bigger risk. How many undersized DT have enjoyed success in the NFL in a 3-4?
                "Heck, now I am glad his overrated arce made the pro bowl, else we would have only got a 3rd." ~ yordad

                "I've just been hit with a piece of sky. " ~ yordad

                "Forgive my opinion, but...." ~ yordad

                "Warning: I might be hammered." ~ yordad

                "I don't care if the word is "your" or "you're", so buzz off. Its (it's) a frickin(') message board." ~ yordad

                Comment

                • YardRat
                  Well, lookie here...
                  • Dec 2004
                  • 86146

                  #9
                  Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

                  Jeff Wright was 6'2", 274 lbs. Mike Lodish was 6'3", 275 lbs.
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                  • YardRat
                    Well, lookie here...
                    • Dec 2004
                    • 86146

                    #10
                    Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

                    Gary Baldinger was between 6'2" and 6'3", 260-264 lbs depending on which bio you read.
                    YardRat Wall of Fame
                    #56 DARRYL TALLEY
                    #29 DERRICK BURROUGHS#22 FRED JACKSON #95 KYLE WILLIAMS

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                    • yordad
                      Registered User
                      • Dec 2007
                      • 11867

                      #11
                      Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

                      Originally posted by YardRat
                      Jeff Wright was 6'2", 274 lbs. Mike Lodish was 6'3", 275 lbs.
                      Anyone who has started a game this decade?
                      "Heck, now I am glad his overrated arce made the pro bowl, else we would have only got a 3rd." ~ yordad

                      "I've just been hit with a piece of sky. " ~ yordad

                      "Forgive my opinion, but...." ~ yordad

                      "Warning: I might be hammered." ~ yordad

                      "I don't care if the word is "your" or "you're", so buzz off. Its (it's) a frickin(') message board." ~ yordad

                      Comment

                      • Dicknoze69
                        Just because my name is dicknoze,it doesn't mean I have balls in my mouth
                        • Jul 2002
                        • 1224

                        #12
                        Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

                        A more recent example is NT Jay Ratliff of the Cowboys. He's roughly 6'5", 278 lbs.

                        You don't need significant size. Most of the NTs for 3-4 teams this season are ~310 lbs. or so.
                        __________________

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                        • yordad
                          Registered User
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 11867

                          #13
                          Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

                          Originally posted by Dicknoze69
                          A more recent example is NT Jay Ratliff of the Cowboys. He's roughly 6'5", 278 lbs.

                          You don't need significant size. Most of the NTs for 3-4 teams this season are ~310 lbs. or so.
                          Good example. But, I think we can all agree this is the exception.
                          "Heck, now I am glad his overrated arce made the pro bowl, else we would have only got a 3rd." ~ yordad

                          "I've just been hit with a piece of sky. " ~ yordad

                          "Forgive my opinion, but...." ~ yordad

                          "Warning: I might be hammered." ~ yordad

                          "I don't care if the word is "your" or "you're", so buzz off. Its (it's) a frickin(') message board." ~ yordad

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

                            Kendrick Clancy and Chris Hoke spelled Hampton with the Steelers for considerable periods of time due to his injuries and both were sub 300lbs. The Steelers have had over time a comparatively small line with Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel around 280-290lbs

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                            • yordad
                              Registered User
                              • Dec 2007
                              • 11867

                              #15
                              Re: Does a 3-4 require a huge NT?

                              Originally posted by Dicknoze69
                              A more recent example is NT Jay Ratliff of the Cowboys. He's roughly 6'5", 278 lbs.

                              You don't need significant size. Most of the NTs for 3-4 teams this season are ~310 lbs. or so.
                              Wait, NFL.com has Ratliff listed at 6'4, 303. But, that is smallish, and he has experienced a fair amount of success.
                              "Heck, now I am glad his overrated arce made the pro bowl, else we would have only got a 3rd." ~ yordad

                              "I've just been hit with a piece of sky. " ~ yordad

                              "Forgive my opinion, but...." ~ yordad

                              "Warning: I might be hammered." ~ yordad

                              "I don't care if the word is "your" or "you're", so buzz off. Its (it's) a frickin(') message board." ~ yordad

                              Comment

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