Charlie Weis contacted by Bills

[T-Long]

Discuss.

LINK (http://www.wivb.com/dpp/sports/bills_and_nfl/Bills_contact_Weis_20091227)

[clumping platelets]

:shakeno:

[Commissioner]

I love it!! Think he would be a great NFL coach... he's an offensive mastermind and his players love him....

I brought this up last month and asked people on here what they thought and I was bashed....
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=182371

[BillsWin]

No, NO, PLEASE GOD, NO, no, no, no, no, NO! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO! Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Oh no. oh no! No, no no no no no no no no no no no no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ralph, I will hurt you! NO! Why? WHY!? WHAT THE ****!!!!!!!?????


*** One hole in the wall, empty bottle of whiskey and hour in the fetal position later...***



I would be very. VERY pissed off if they hire Weis as HC.

I'm talking, burn the city down, quit my job, destroy the world, pissed off.

**** this ****.

[BillsWin]

Russ Grimm or Charlie Weis?

If you want to go cheap, un proven, coordinator type go with one with upside!

[BILLSROCK1212]

I love it!! Think he would be a great NFL coach... he's an offensive mastermind and his players love him....

I brought this up last month and asked people on here what they thought and I was bashed....
http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=182371
i think his time at ND is no indication of how well he'd do as an NFL HC...i'm not opposed although Grimm is my number 1 but if Romeo is the DC w/ Charlie then I'm down

[Commissioner]

We obviously can't get any of the top candidates.

I don't think you can judge him by what he did at Notre Dame...

He would come relatively cheap plus he IS A SMART COACH.

If we sign Weis and get a good football man to run the front office... i would be very happy.

[Raptor]

I'd take it.

I think his style is much better suited for the NFL than college

[BillsWin]

The one thing I think Weis has going for him is that we really do not have an idea of how he will do in the NFL. Many think his style is better suited for the NFL. They also don't believe recruiting was up to par in South Bend during his time there.

[bills&sabresmvf]

really...you would be happy? Good luck with Clausen or even Brady Quinn. He's not the coach this team needs. The Bills fans are obviously using mediocre as an upside and one that would suffice. Go out and get a stud. It's still possible. Ralph said he'd throw money around, but the bottom line is he won't give that "top tier" head coach the power, Ralph still wants control. If he decides to back off, then I'm sure we can get a coach that wants to turn this program around himself. Bills need a solid GM first before they hire a head coach. Think about who is making the decision to pick a coach? Not a football guy!

[TrEd FTW]

I honestly would not hate this...

[jimbohastle51]

One thing is for sure, if he gets the job it is a guarantee that either clausen or quinn os our qb next year

[Mr. Pink]

I think I would like this move less than just hiring Fewell.

[clumping platelets]

Russ Grimm is EXACTLY the type of head coach we need

[Oldbillsfan]

How about a GM first. I smell a meddling owner.

[PECKERWOOD]

It would be interesting to see Weis coach up Bradford in the pros.

[Michael82]

Oh God! Then we would most likely draft Claussen. :puke:

[BILLSROCK1212]

GRIMM, GRIMM, GRIMM then Weiss...lets hope for an early playoff exit by the Cardinals....January 8th would be nice

[BillsWin]

It would be interesting to see Weis coach up Bradford in the pros.

Bradford would make Weis bearable in my book.

[TrEd FTW]

Does contacting Weis before calling GM candidates mean Brandon is staying in that role? We're screwed if that's the case. No credible head of football operations, no chance to win.

[snow1989]

Sorry...not a huge fan of either. I would think by this time RW would want a proven NFL coach or at the minimum a top flight asst coach. Weiss is neither of these...more a by product of Bilichek and I think that was borne out by his time in Notre Dame. Grimm is interesting, but he'll have to surround himself with some of the best in the league...he'll be learning HC as he goes and expect some growing pains.
RW either isn't willing to cough up enough money to get a higher profile coach in or they look at our club as a complete rebuild and don't want the headache

[DynaPaul]

groan

[bosshogg21]

Does contacting Weis before calling GM candidates mean Brandon is staying in that role? We're screwed if that's the case. No credible head of football operations, no chance to win.


You bet your a$$ it does. What quality gm will come here if they can't even hire the coach they want? The bills putting the cart before the horse again. Unless...the big splash is really that tuna is coming. In reality, I too, smell a meddling owner.

[Ingtar33]

They might be offering Weis player personnel power... aka a 'GM hat'.

Really i don't mind this move. He was doomed to fail in ND thanks to the admissions policies for the school. He's not an amazing recruiter, that job really doesn't exist in the NFL.

He was a pretty good OC in the NFL. I think he was a pretty good HC in college (despite his lack of success). He's not a bad guy, he knows football. I think he'd probably do pretty good on an NFL sideline.

[TrEd FTW]

They might be offering Weis player personnel power... aka a 'GM hat'.

Really i don't mind this move. He was doomed to fail in ND thanks to the admissions policies for the school. He's not an amazing recruiter, that job really doesn't exist in the NFL.

He was a pretty good OC in the NFL. I think he was a pretty good HC in college (despite his lack of success). He's not a bad guy, he knows football. I think he'd probably do pretty good on an NFL sideline.

As long as he comes with a good GM, I would have no problem with Weis. IMO, he would make a much better NFL HC than college HC. Two different animals.

[Billz_fan]

*sigh, however Im not gonna make a rant post till I see what happens. Im not crazy about this though. I thought Thurman said we were gonna get something nice under the tree ?

Who is gonna pick the talent ? We sure as hell need alot of it. Ok, I said I wasn't gonna go off and I started to :D

Lets just say this seems like settling for someone to me.

[djjimkelly]

i dont have a problem with this move

i agree college is much different then pro game

plus i do like the fact he would know of alot of college players he himself has seen play

i think it would be a solid move on bills part.

we arent getting shanahan or cowher

i could handle weis i like him as an offensive mind over anyone else ive heard mention that is a reality for HC

[Night Train]

Russ Grimm is EXACTLY the type of head coach we need

Inexperienced, Like Greggo & Mularkey ? No more learning on the job types.

Not thrilled with Weis but this is exactly why I dumped my tickets lat year. Low expectations which unfortunately, come true. :down:

[Historian]

:puke:

[X-Era]

Everyone knows my take.

There's only one version I will be happy with, and that Head Coach had better have gotten a Super Bowl ring as a Head Coach.

Anything less is more of the same.

Jabba the Weiss can stay the hell away from B-lo.

[dannyek71]

Weis (like about 5 other OCs after him) did OK with BB's system in NE. Other than that, give me one shred of evidence that he will be a good NFL coach?

[YardRat]

I wish some GM names would start getting some press.

[Don't Panic]

One thing is for sure, if he gets the job it is a guarantee that either clausen or quinn os our qb next year
That's like saying that you're guaranteed to marry a girl you dated 5 or 6 years ago.

Gabriel as GM and Weis as coach (with a possible DC of Crennel) is probably about what we're looking at in terms of quality/stature. Cowher is not coming, nor is Shanny, nor is Gruden. We could hold out for Fox... go with a coordinator like Grimm/Frazier... possibly bring in Schottenheimer, but that's about it for other options.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Is he gonna be able to cheat like he did in NE?

[ddaryl]

Weiss as a OC hell yes


but I have trepidation in regards to him as a HC

but lets face it... The bottom line IMO is as long as Ralph breathes nobody will really want to be here. Ralph has meddled for too long and no coach who has the ability to name his job is going to even consider working for Ralphy.

I think I would prefer the CFL coach from montreal as HC and let Weiss OC / Asst HC... but we know that ain't going down

[ddaryl]

Is he gonna be able to cheat like he did in NE?



LOL!

Yes if he is allowed to cheat then bring him in.... :dolfan:

[ddaryl]

I wish some GM names would start getting some press.

really starting to look like the GM position is not really in play

[NorthCarBills]

really starting to look like the GM position is not really in play

Yeah, this lack of GM buzz is really disturbing. Doesnt matter who comes here to coach if we keep the same FO.

[tampabay25690]

What if Dungy was GM and Weiss head coach?
Would u guys be happy then?

[EDS]

What if Dungy was GM and Weiss head coach?
Would u guys be happy then?

What if pigs could fly? I rather Dungy be the coach than Weiss, and I don't know if Dungy has any experience as a GM to make me confident of his ability in that role.

I am all in favor of Polian as GM and Dungy as coach though.

[Night Train]

What if Dungy was GM and Weiss head coach?
Would u guys be happy then?

Dungy has as much GM experience as Marv did. :down:

How about guys with experience ?

[DraftBoy]

As a Notre Dame fan, I must say Id hate this move. Weiss's game day decision were questionable at best. He tried to outsmart his opponent, rather than just getting the ball to his playmakers and letting them make plays. He concentrates almost solely on offense, and it showed in his recruiting classes. We would spend little time on defense in the end, which is what killed Notre Dame.

[Beastie Bills]

I don't think you can judge him by what he did at Notre Dame...


Why not?

[Nighthawk]

Why are they worried about a HC when they don't have a GM yet??? Get a GM, then let him pick his HC...

[trapezeus]

this just smacks of Ralph chasing the patriots again.

without a gm and proper NFL structure set up within the bills organization, it will fail in a different way.

Get russ brandon away from player personnel decision making and get a guy who knows what he's doing.

This isn't brain surgery. I'm not sure why the bills insist on making this much more difficult than it needs to be.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I wouldn't hate this. Cowher and Shannahan don't want to come here. Holmgren is in Cleveland. Who else is left?

Weis would probably bring Crennel to coach defense and would have a chip on his shoulder to beat Belicheck...

[Patti120]

:shoothead:

[Beastie Bills]

I wouldn't hate this. Cowher and Shannahan don't want to come here. Holmgren is in Cleveland. Who else is left?


My Top 3:

1 - Gruden - Not gonna happen
2 - Billick - Possible
3 - Grimm - Possible

[Nighthawk]

Why are people blowing their wads over Russ Grimm??? Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it, but why are people so enamored with a position coach who has no experience as a coordinator? IMO, it's because people see somebody else say it on a message board and they jump on the bandwagon. There really is no good reason to be so excited about him...really there is not.

[Beastie Bills]

Why are people blowing their wads over Russ Grimm??? Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it, but why are people so enamored with a position coach who has no experience as a coordinator? IMO, it's because people see somebody else say it on a message board and they jump on the bandwagon. There really is no good reason to be so excited about him...really there is not.

My feeling on Grimm is that he comes from a winning organization, and he won't neglect the Offensive Line, which has been one of the biggest problems with this team for the last decade.

[The Juice Is Loose]

Well mularkey and jauron failed miserabley prior to us hiring them so it would make sense to hire this fat loser. Honestly he's so fat I'd be worried about his health.

[Nighthawk]

My feeling on Grimm is that he comes from a winning organization, and he won't neglect the Offensive Line, which has been one of the biggest problems with this team for the last decade.

Mularkey came from that same winning organization and so did Donahoe. I'm not saying he wouldn't be a good HC, but I think that most who are saying the Bills should hire him are just following the crowd. There really is nothing that he has done in his coaching career for him to be such a hot prospect.

[Nighthawk]

Well mularkey and jauron failed miserabley prior to us hiring them so it would make sense to hire this fat loser. Honestly he's so fat I'd be worried about his health.

This really has nothing to do with the conversation....what was the point of posting it?

[Beastie Bills]

Mularkey came from that same winning organization and so did Donahoe. I'm not saying he wouldn't be a good HC, but I think that most who are saying the Bills should hire him are just following the crowd. There really is nothing that he has done in his coaching career for him to be such a hot prospect.

Well, Mularkey and Donahoe were run out of that winning organization, so I think it's a little different. But the main reason I like him is that he is a former OLine coach.

[Nighthawk]

Well, Mularkey and Donahoe were run out of that winning organization, so I think it's a little different. But the main reason I like him is that he is a former OLine coach.

That's a respectable reason...I was just curious.

[THATHURMANATOR]

My Top 3:

1 - Gruden - Not gonna happen
2 - Billick - Possible
3 - Grimm - Possible
Out of this list I do like Grimm.

You are right Gruden is not going to happen.

I would also take Billick but don't necessarily like him any more than Weis.

[RockStar36]

Not thrilled with this, but again, it all depends who is working in the FO. I can learn to live with this assuming they get the right people up top.

[Nighthawk]

Not thrilled with this, but again, it all depends who is working in the FO. I can learn to live with this assuming they get the right people up top.

That's how I feel...if they hire a GM and that guy wants Weis, fine. However, I will hate this move if Brandon keeps running the football side of things and they keep Modrak & Guy.

[HHURRICANE]

We need to offer Shottenheimer 10 million a year and get him out of retirement.

The funny thing is that I told you so. Ralph is already working on cheap canidates and than he'll have Brandon go out there and say "we offered Shanahan the richest coaching contract in Bills history but he just didn't want to be here".

[Nighthawk]

We need to offer Shottenheimer 10 million a year and get him out of retirement.

The funny thing is that I told you so. Ralph is already working on cheap canidates and than he'll have Brandon go out there and say "we offered Shanahan the richest coaching contract in Bills history but he just didn't want to be here".

I can't disagree with you on that...it sure seems like that is what they did.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We need to offer Shottenheimer 10 million a year and get him out of retirement.

The funny thing is that I told you so. Ralph is already working on cheap canidates and than he'll have Brandon go out there and say "we offered Shanahan the richest coaching contract in Bills history but he just didn't want to be here".
I would take Marty too.

Honestly how cheap would Weis be? I bet he gets a decent amount.

[Bill Cody]

Charlie Weiss will not be missed in ND. The guys giving him a pass for that are just crazy. He is arrogant and he is not a leader. Some guys are not cut out to be head coaches. This guy would be worse than Man Boobs or Mularkey IMO.

To be honest this is a make or break move for the Bills. If they hire another garbage coach before they even have a GM I am going to lose all faith in this team. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Bills need to make a big splash with this move. If they don't it will cost them much much more than any coach's salary. The fan base is hanging on by it's fingernails.

The thing people don't talk about much is the staff is almost as important as the coach. Remember we hired Man Boobs late and he had to grab whatever dregs of assistants he could? And naturally those guys sucked balls. And Man Boobs needed the help and it wasn't there. Someone said Cowher doesn't want to come here. F that. Back the Brinks truck up Ralph and Cowher will be waving the Bills pom poms. And he's already made calls about a staff, a professional staff. THAT's the direction we need to go. Not Charlie F'n Weiss.

People say Cowher won't be as successful the 2nd time around. I'm sorry give me a has been over a never was any day. Bringing in Charlie Weiss would be like pulling the plug on a patient on life support.

[HHURRICANE]

I would take Marty too.

Honestly how cheap would Weis be? I bet he gets a decent amount.

Ask yourself this. How many teams would be seriously interested in Weis as a head coach?

And remember cheap is probably about 3-4 million a year in this market unless we go with some unknown.

[patmoran2006]

My only question is why do I repeatedly keep reading in this thread that you "cant count what he did at Notre Dame".

WHy not????
Why should his track record at Notre Dame NOT count Because it was college?

I am a Notre Dame fan, and I can't begin to tell you how many teams the Irish lost in the 4th QT over the past few years.

[HHURRICANE]

Charlie Weiss will not be missed in ND. The guys giving him a pass for that are just crazy. He is arrogant and he is not a leader. Some guys are not cut out to be head coaches. This guy would be worse than Man Boobs or Mularkey IMO.

To be honest this is a make or break move for the Bills. If they hire another garbage coach before they even have a GM I am going to lose all faith in this team. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Bills need to make a big splash with this move. If they don't it will cost them much much more than any coach's salary. The fan base is hanging on by it's fingernails.

The thing people don't talk about much is the staff is almost as important as the coach. Remember we hired Man Boobs late and he had to grab whatever dregs of assistants he could? And naturally those guys sucked balls. And Man Boobs needed the help and it wasn't there. Someone said Cowher doesn't want to come here. F that. Back the Brinks truck up Ralph and Cowher will be waving the Bills pom poms. And he's already made calls about a staff, a professional staff. THAT's the direction we need to go. Not Charlie F'n Weiss.

People say Cowher won't be as successful the 2nd time around. I'm sorry give me a has been over a never was any day. Bringing in Charlie Weiss would be like pulling the plug on a patient on life support.


BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believed the Bills had no interest in winning after the whole Peters debacle. If they bring Ironside in here than it just confirms the obvious.

Ralph is a liar because enough money will bring us a winner.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I believed the Bills had no interest in winning after the whole Peters debacle. If they bring Ironside in here than it just confirms the obvious.

Ralph is a liar because enough money will bring us a winner.

Hmm, hasn't so far. Hell, people don't even want to interview with us, not even have a conversation.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Ask yourself this. How many teams would be seriously interested in Weis as a head coach?

And remember cheap is probably about 3-4 million a year in this market unless we go with some unknown.
Yeah I see what you are saying. I am not gung ho on Weis but don't hate it for some reason..

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I dont want a fat coach! Only skinny coaches do well in the nfl... just look at skeletor! oh wait.... never mind...

Fat coaches are cool!

actually, weis would not be my first choice... rather have billick then weis but who the hell knows what would hapen weith ANY coach

[baalworship]

The Bills could do a lot worse. As far as understanding X's and O's which to me is the most important quality in an NFL head coach Weis is a top candidate. He was the offensive coordinator for Belichick AND Parcells. Two great coaches wanted him running the opposite side of the ball.

I don't follow college football but it's fair to say that great college coaches do not automatically become great in the NFL, they are two very different leagues.

If the Bills also bring in a new GM I could get behind this hire.

[justasportsfan]

I think I would prefer the CFL coach from montreal as HC and let Weiss OC / Asst HC... but we know that ain't going down
:up:

[Beastie Bills]

That's how I feel...if they hire a GM and that guy wants Weis, fine. However, I will hate this move if Brandon keeps running the football side of things and they keep Modrak & Guy.

I definitely don't want Weis, but if we hired a GM and he made that decision, I could probably stomach it.

But you're absolutely right, Brandon should not make the call, and Modrak and Guy need to go.

[ddaryl]

To be honest this is a make or break move for the Bills. If they hire another garbage coach before they even have a GM I am going to lose all faith in this team. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Bills need to make a big splash with this move. If they don't it will cost them much much more than any coach's salary. The fan base is hanging on by it's fingernails.
.


which brings us back to the argument "Does Ralph even give a chit"

He could care less about the fanbase. just as long as his franchise is worth $800 mil to someone when he dies...

I wish more Bills fans would be willing tot step up the pressure on the organization with protests and demands, but sadly were looking at the same group of fans who had a significant portion too afraid of the consequences for having a simple highway billboard asking for the heads of Jauron Modrak and Guy.


I think its time to locate Ralphs personal phone number.. I have something I need to get off my chest

[kernowboy]

Actually its nothing about Ralph being a liar.

Almost certainly he's talking to Weis at the moment, because he can talk to Weis.

Do we think they'd line up all the candidates and speak to them during a single week?

Fans should stop getting their pants in a twist because Shanahan or Cowher have not said yes. Shanahan said before Jauron was even fired that he'd not take over a team midseason .... would he be a liar if he'd changed his mind?

You interview people as they become available ... and if that happens to be in February, then so be it.

[trapezeus]

GM's should be talked too first. this is what has peoples pants in a twist. if they fail to hvae a GM by the 2nd week of January, then they will not have a leg up on Free agency. and that means they'll let john guy and tom modrak continue to make the decisions. and that means it'll be a waste to finishing such a ****ty season with the same idiots making the same stupid calls.

The bills need to be working with some urgency. They need to have a plan and it comes off that they just had the shanahan plan (which wasn't a great plan in the first place) and nothing else.

[The Juice Is Loose]

I'm pretty convinced that the bills are going to screw this up. They're gonna hire the wrong coach first, which will exclude any real gm.

[DraftBoy]

Mularkey came from that same winning organization and so did Donahoe. I'm not saying he wouldn't be a good HC, but I think that most who are saying the Bills should hire him are just following the crowd. There really is nothing that he has done in his coaching career for him to be such a hot prospect.

I dont think your bolded statement holds a lot of water. A simple look at his bio tells you the following.

-He was a founding member of the Redskins renowned "Hogs" offensive line of the 80's and early 90's. He is a multi-time pro bowler, a 1980 All-Decade Team Member, and a former Collegiate All-American OC. What does that tell us? That he knows the job the OL plays probably better than almost anybody out there, which would be huge for us with guys like Wood, Levitre, Bell, Meredith, etc.

-He has won 3 SB rings as a player and 1 as a coach, so he has the rings (both as player and coach) to know what to do both on the field and in the coaches prep meetings to win the big game. I don't consider the rings thing to be a huge deal but many people do.

-Grimm developed both Jon Jansen and Chris Samuels at Washington while their Offensive Line coach. Both player highly praise Grimm and credit him for their development.

-While working with the Pittsburgh Steelers he helped to develop pro players like Alan Faneca, Max Starks, Kendall Simmons, Chris Kemoteau, and Justin Hartwig. With Arizona he has helped players like Levi Brown and Deuce Lutui solidify the Arizona right side.

-He knows what the job as Head Coach is as he is the Asst. HC.

The above resume highlights like this;
-He knows what it takes to play and win a Championship
-He knows what it takes to coach and win a Championship
-He has a history of developing All-Pro Players at ever OL position
-He knows the job of the HC and comes from a good tree

Personally I like the fact that he hasn't been an OC or DC. He will then likely look to hire good coordinators to fill those roles and help him in play call and defensive schemes.

Those are my reasons for him being a hot prosect.

[DraftBoy]

The above all being said, I still think we need to hire a GM first then let him pick the coach.

[ChristopherWalken]

Weis would suck.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I like Grimm for sure. But again he is unproven.

[ddaryl]

^^^^^^^ and yet barely a peep out of OBD about a GM.

I don't think the Bills are looking at GM's because common sense says the GM hires the coach unless its a big time coach who can dictate his GM

[THATHURMANATOR]

Why exactly would Weis Suck??
I am not trying to argue at all but want to discuss seriously.

I am not sure I want Weis either(I am still deciding)

He would most certainly bring a good offensive strategy with him.

He is great at molding young QBs.

I would assume he would bring in a solid DC.

I hear he isn't the best with late game decisions.

What else is his problem?

[DraftBoy]

Why exactly would Weis Suck??
I am not trying to argue at all but want to discuss seriously.

I am not sure I want Weis either(I am still deciding)

He would most certainly bring a good offensive strategy with him.

He is great at molding young QBs.

I would assume he would bring in a solid DC.

I hear he isn't the best with late game decisions.

What else is his problem?

His decisions at Notre Dame were poor, his development of Jimmy Clausen is really yet to be seen since we don't know what he will look like in the pros. His ego (via his offensive genious) is out of this world and he thinks he is smarter than every other coach, thus likes to do stupid things. His talent evaluation skills (aka recruiting) were not a strong point what so ever.

[ChristopherWalken]

Another players head coach that prefers fortifying relationships instead of getting the job done. I honestly do not want to hear in 3 years, "He's a great guy and the players love him...he just couldn't get it done and pull it together in Buffalo."

I bet he would make a great OC...he's not the HC I would prefer to see. This team needs a passionate coach that can keep a fire lit under their pathetic little asses.

Read more on Weis here: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/293105-to-lose-circus-notre-dame-must-lose-weis-clown

[THATHURMANATOR]

His decisions at Notre Dame were poor, his development of Jimmy Clausen is really yet to be seen since we don't know what he will look like in the pros. His ego (via his offensive genious) is out of this world and he thinks he is smarter than every other coach, thus likes to do stupid things. His talent evaluation skills (aka recruiting) were not a strong point what so ever.
Well the recruiting skills portion mean nothing in the NFL.

How were his offenses? Did they generate points?

What did he do that was ego driven? (did he go for it when he shouldn't have etc)?

[Novacane]

Does contacting Weis before calling GM candidates mean Brandon is staying in that role? We're screwed if that's the case. No credible head of football operations, no chance to win.


This is what is worrying me. If Brandon is still the GM nothing will change.

[DraftBoy]

Well the recruiting skills portion mean nothing in the NFL.

How were his offenses? Did they generate points?

What did he do that was ego driven? (did he go for it when he shouldn't have etc)?

I disagree recruiting like coaching is about talent eval. As the HC he has to decide who starts and who doesn't etc. I question his talent evaluation skills based on his inability to recruit well at Notre Dame. Other factors played in (admissions standards, etc.) but many times he simply recruited the wrong guy.

They were pro style...some times they worked, some times they didn't. It was a very mixed review.

He thought he could outsmart the college coaches, so he would call cute plays, go for it on 4th Down when it was 3 or 4 yards away, etc.

[Nighthawk]

I dont think your bolded statement holds a lot of water. A simple look at his bio tells you the following.

-He was a founding member of the Redskins renowned "Hogs" offensive line of the 80's and early 90's. He is a multi-time pro bowler, a 1980 All-Decade Team Member, and a former Collegiate All-American OC. What does that tell us? That he knows the job the OL plays probably better than almost anybody out there, which would be huge for us with guys like Wood, Levitre, Bell, Meredith, etc.

-He has won 3 SB rings as a player and 1 as a coach, so he has the rings (both as player and coach) to know what to do both on the field and in the coaches prep meetings to win the big game. I don't consider the rings thing to be a huge deal but many people do.

-Grimm developed both Jon Jansen and Chris Samuels at Washington while their Offensive Line coach. Both player highly praise Grimm and credit him for their development.

-While working with the Pittsburgh Steelers he helped to develop pro players like Alan Faneca, Max Starks, Kendall Simmons, Chris Kemoteau, and Justin Hartwig. With Arizona he has helped players like Levi Brown and Deuce Lutui solidify the Arizona right side.

-He knows what the job as Head Coach is as he is the Asst. HC.

The above resume highlights like this;
-He knows what it takes to play and win a Championship
-He knows what it takes to coach and win a Championship
-He has a history of developing All-Pro Players at ever OL position
-He knows the job of the HC and comes from a good tree

Personally I like the fact that he hasn't been an OC or DC. He will then likely look to hire good coordinators to fill those roles and help him in play call and defensive schemes.

Those are my reasons for him being a hot prosect.


Like I said, he's done nothing in his "coaching" career to merit the love. You've highlighted a ton of personal/playing career facts, but not many coaching facts that back up the excitement people are showing for him being hired. Most of his coaching accomplishments are on the smaller scale..OL development. Being a HC is a much broader task. I remember a certain highly touted Tampa Bay Defensive Line coach (Rod Marinelli) making the jump to a HC position in Detroit and it did not work out so well. Another person who made a jump from position coach to HC was Raheem Morris this year and that also has been a colossal failure.

Again, I'm not against him, but I think too many people are followers and just start liking somebody because some posters say they do. That's all, nothing more to it then that. He is no more proven then Perry Fewell or Bobby April (who also carries the Asst. HC title) and I want nothing to do with either of them.

He may be a good HC, but the love he is getting right now is unwarranted. If we hire him, I wouldn't hate it, but I also won't be on here doing jumping jacks because he still is VERY unproven.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I disagree recruiting like coaching is about talent eval. As the HC he has to decide who starts and who doesn't etc. I question his talent evaluation skills based on his inability to recruit well at Notre Dame. Other factors played in (admissions standards, etc.) but many times he simply recruited the wrong guy.

They were pro style...some times they worked, some times they didn't. It was a very mixed review.

He thought he could outsmart the college coaches, so he would call cute plays, go for it on 4th Down when it was 3 or 4 yards away, etc.
In this scenario we also get a competent GM who would be in charge of talent evaluation. No recruitment necessary for the coach.

Do you feel that if he were back in the NFL he wouldn't be as arrogant?

[Nighthawk]

Why exactly would Weis Suck??
I am not trying to argue at all but want to discuss seriously.

I am not sure I want Weis either(I am still deciding)

He would most certainly bring a good offensive strategy with him.

He is great at molding young QBs.

I would assume he would bring in a solid DC.

I hear he isn't the best with late game decisions.

What else is his problem?

Nobody knows that Weis would suck...he's a much more proven commodity in the NFL then most options that are being talked about right now. I believe that the Bills should be focusing on the GM position and then let that guy choose his coach. Doing anything else would be more mediocrity.

[Demon]

I think recruiting in college and NFL does play a role. It's about seeing talent. If you sit talented players because you don't see their upside, it's a problem. As with recruitment for college. Although i think he did a great job recruiting offensive players. Although, i can't think it's too hard to recruit offensive players for ND, they had a offensive minded coach and it's ND.

I would not want Weis as head coach but i have stated many times on here, i'd love him as an assistant coach. And Peter King said once again today via twitter that Buffalo's best combo would be John Fox as HC and Weis as OC, but also noted he doubts Fox get fired.

[Demon]

Btw, i'd guess Romeo Crennel comes with him, as DC?

[DraftBoy]

Like I said, he's done nothing in his "coaching" career to merit the love. You've highlighted a ton of personal/playing career facts, but not many coaching facts that back up the excitement people are showing for him being hired. Most of his coaching accomplishments are on the smaller scale..OL development. Being a HC is a much broader task. I remember a certain highly touted Tampa Bay Defensive Line coach (Rod Marinelli) making the jump to a HC position in Detroit and it did not work out so well. Another person who made a jump from position coach to HC was Raheem Morris this year and that also has been a colossal failure.

Again, I'm not against him, but I think too many people are followers and just start liking somebody because some posters say they do. That's all, nothing more to it then that. He is no more proven then Perry Fewell or Bobby April (who also carries the Asst. HC title) and I want nothing to do with either of them.

He may be a good HC, but the love he is getting right now is unwarranted. If we hire him, I wouldn't hate it, but I also won't be on here doing jumping jacks because he still is VERY unproven.

How many All-Pro players did Marinelli or Morris develop themselves though? I see your point of view and I dont think he is a lock to be successful but I think discounting the work he has done with All-Pro caliber players is a little misguided.

All the other coaches you are roping him in with Morris, Marinelli, April, Fewell...have any had the success in developing players like Grimm has? That is what his job is, to make the players at his position, the best they can be, and he has done that time and time again. What more could you ask for? When you are successful at multiple places, with mulitple players, you begin to become a hot commodity.

[DraftBoy]

In this scenario we also get a competent GM who would be in charge of talent evaluation. No recruitment necessary for the coach.

Do you feel that if he were back in the NFL he wouldn't be as arrogant?

The GM does not set the Depth Chart though.

I dont know, one would hope not, and that ND was a big shot to his ego, but who knows.

[ddaryl]

Btw, i'd guess Romeo Crennel comes with him, as DC?


BOTH of these guys have failled together once they left Bellichek...

so either together they become part of a functioning entity, or togehter they both continue to fail misserably without Belicheck making them look as good as they did in NE.

that's a scary roll of the dice

[Nighthawk]

How many All-Pro players did Marinelli or Morris develop themselves though? I see your point of view and I dont think he is a lock to be successful but I think discounting the work he has done with All-Pro caliber players is a little misguided.

All the other coaches you are roping him in with Morris, Marinelli, April, Fewell...have any had the success in developing players like Grimm has? That is what his job is, to make the players at his position, the best they can be, and he has done that time and time again. What more could you ask for? When you are successful at multiple places, with mulitple players, you begin to become a hot commodity.

I think that you could find success stories for every position coach in the NFL. I don't want this to become a Grimm bashing thread because I do like some of the intangibles he brings, but I just can't get crazy about a guy who still has a lot to prove.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The GM does not set the Depth Chart though.

I dont know, one would hope not, and that ND was a big shot to his ego, but who knows.
Great points.

I am just trying to be objective here.

Shannahan and Cowher blew us off.

Gruden doesn't want to come here either.

Weis doesn't strike me as overly worse than some of the other guys being named.

I would probably like a hybrid of Grimm HC and Weis OC but who knows.

[DraftBoy]

I think that you could find success stories for every position coach in the NFL. I don't want this to become a Grimm bashing thread because I do like some of the intangibles he brings, but I just can't get crazy about a guy who still has a lot to prove.

I understand and Im not by all means saying he is a sure thing but I do like him and his ability alot.

[DraftBoy]

Great points.

I am just trying to be objective here.

Shannahan and Cowher blew us off.

Gruden doesn't want to come here either.

Weis doesn't strike me as overly worse than some of the other guys being named.

I would probably like a hybrid of Grimm HC and Weis OC but who knows.

I can appreciate objectivity in regards to this team, hell if anything they need it really bad. I think Weiss would be a good OC, but not an HC. He doesnt seem to be able to handle that.

[justasportsfan]

I wanted Weiss over Mularkey but I wouldn't mind him as OC. Thats it.

[HAMMER]

What a joke, why are they even discussing coaching candidates? GM first, then he hires his staff, WTF is Wilson doing?

[Demon]

What a joke, why are they even discussing coaching candidates? GM first, then he hires his staff, WTF is Wilson doing?

This is my problem too. What happened to interviewing GMs? I don't want Modrak, Guy and Brandon to sit down at a table and interview anybody for the HC position. In fact, I want Modrak and Guy fired.

The Browns hired Mangini and then a GM... and look how that ended up.

[DraftBoy]

What a joke, why are they even discussing coaching candidates? GM first, then he hires his staff, WTF is Wilson doing?

Well so far they aren't contacting anybody that isn't on everybody elses short list already.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I can appreciate objectivity in regards to this team, hell if anything they need it really bad. I think Weiss would be a good OC, but not an HC. He doesnt seem to be able to handle that.
I don't disagree with this.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What a joke, why are they even discussing coaching candidates? GM first, then he hires his staff, WTF is Wilson doing?
This is a very valid point!

[Bill Cody]

Why exactly would Weis Suck??


Let's break this down. Other than his ties to bill Bellichick, and by the way so far his coaching tree hasn't shown much, exactly what does Weiss bring to the table? NE won 2 SB's after he left so they didn't need his playcalling. What about leadership? If you either can't judge talent or you do get talented players and you can't motivate them enough to beat the Navy's of the world, exactly why should we believe free agents are going to look at that fat load and say "I know Buffalo's offer is a little less but I want to run through a wall for ol Charlie Weiss" or guys on the roster like TO will say "this guys a genius and a leader, let me sign up for some more Buffalo fun times". Yeah right. We'd give this guy five years and after 2 games it would look dumber than ND giving him 10. :puke:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Let's break this down. Other than his ties to bill Bellichick, and by the way so far his coaching tree hasn't shown much, exactly what does Weiss bring to the table? NE won 2 SB's after he left so they didn't need his playcalling. What about leadership? If you either can't judge talent or you do get talented players and you can't motivate them enough to beat the Navy's of the world, exactly why should we believe free agents are going to look at that fat load and say "I know Buffalo's offer is a little less but I want to run through a wall for ol Charlie Weiss" or guys on the roster like TO will say "this guys a genius and a leader, let me sign up for some more Buffalo fun times". Yeah right. We'd give this guy five years and after 2 games it would look dumber than ND giving him 10. :puke:
Well lets not be naive and think players EVER take less money to come anywhere. It just doesn't happen.

I don't want him to judge talent in regards to obtaining talent. That is the job of a GM.

[Bill Cody]

Shannahan and Cowher blew us off.



How do you know Cowher blew us off? If he did it's probably because he didn't want to deal with a meddling old skinflint that won't do the right thing and either a) die or b) sell the team now to a local group that knows enough to pay top dollar for top coaching and GM talent and then keep out of their f'in way. If we get served another sack of **** and told bon appetit it ain't going to be pretty around here.

[mikemac2001]

This ****ing sucks...... i don't want him as a head coach he did nothing with notre dame, when he wasn't able to beat navy why do you think he would be able to trick Billy b

[mikemac2001]

wait for john fox to be fired...rather have him then doughboy pissed

[paladin warrior]

No, NO, PLEASE GOD, NO, no, no, no, no, NO! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD NO! Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Oh no. oh no! No, no no no no no no no no no no no no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ralph, I will hurt you! NO! Why? WHY!? WHAT THE ****!!!!!!!?????


*** One hole in the wall, empty bottle of whiskey and hour in the fetal position later...***



I would be very. VERY pissed off if they hire Weis as HC.

I'm talking, burn the city down, quit my job, destroy the world, pissed off.

**** this ****. BECAUSE RALPH WANT TO HIRE A CHEAP HC

[Bill Cody]

Well lets not be naive and think players EVER take less money to come anywhere. It just doesn't happen.

I don't want him to judge talent in regards to obtaining talent. That is the job of a GM.

You're missing my point. The money has to be close but players want a chance to win. Are you saying Bill Bellichick or other top coaches aren't a factor in attracting FA's? Weiss never played football even in college and he looks like the Michelin Man. Give me some reason why pro's are going to look up at THAT and go yelling through the tunnel?

[THATHURMANATOR]

How do you know Cowher blew us off? If he did it's probably because he didn't want to deal with a meddling old skinflint that won't do the right thing and either a) die or b) sell the team now to a local group that knows enough to pay top dollar for top coaching and GM talent and then keep out of their f'in way. If we get served another sack of **** and told bon appetit it ain't going to be pretty around here.
Was it not reported that they turned the Bills offers down?

[Bill Cody]

Was it not reported that they turned the Bills offers down?

Ok I can feel my face getting red. Link? What did we supposedly offer him, Skeletor money?

[DraftBoy]

Ok I can feel my face getting red. Link? What did we supposedly offer him, Skeletor money?


Here the official on Shanny;
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/905494.html

[Bill Cody]

wait for john fox to be fired...rather have him then doughboy pissed

that would be better yes. But I think Ralph should overpay if he has to and get Cowher. Open the checkbook, let the moths fly out and get er done. That will get people excited and it might even attract a strong GM as a package. If Ralph has any brain cells still functioning he has to get this right.

[Bill Cody]

Here the official on Shanny;
http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/story/905494.html

I know about Shanny.

[Nighthawk]

Was it not reported that they turned the Bills offers down?

Cowher did not turn down the Bills...he told them, as he has told every other team, he will not speak to any team about a coaching position until the season is over. He will not talk to a team when they have a HC.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Ok I can feel my face getting red. Link? What did we supposedly offer him, Skeletor money?
Whats wrong with you man. Chill out.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Cowher did not turn down the Bills...he told them, as he has told every other team, he will not speak to any team about a coaching position until the season is over. He will not talk to a team when they have a HC.
Well Shannahan I meant.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I know about Shanny.
So is your face clearing up now then...

[THATHURMANATOR]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/314992-another-opportunity-for-jim-kelly-to-bring-buffalo-a-lombardi


Remember when Head Coach Dick Jauron was fired and Bills owner Ralph Wilson pledged to spend $10 million per year to get an A-List coach and GM? Remember when Mr. Wilson interviewed Mike Shanahan and contacted Bill Cowher? It appeared he was determined to do whatever it took to get good football minds in the top positions of the franchise.

Do you remember, even barely? It was only a month ago, but seems like an eternity.Since word of the snub from Bill Cowher , nothing else has happened; unless it has been so far under the radar that even press rumor hounds haven't got the scent.

[Jeff1220]

Like many of you, the thing that pisses me off the most about this is that they are looking at HC candidates like Weiss without hiring a real GM first.

[Nighthawk]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/314992-another-opportunity-for-jim-kelly-to-bring-buffalo-a-lombardi

Thurm, you're not using that site as a confirmation...are you?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Thurm, you're not using that site as a confirmation...are you?
I am not saying anything with Cowher is confirmed really. Just siting that there is talk out there that he doesn't want to come to Buffalo.

[Bill Cody]

Whats wrong with you man. Chill out.

ok

[THATHURMANATOR]

ok
:hi5:

I love the passion but these Bills are going to end up giving us all heart attacks!

[Prov401]

Let's break this down. Other than his ties to bill Bellichick, and by the way so far his coaching tree hasn't shown much, exactly what does Weiss bring to the table? NE won 2 SB's after he left so they didn't need his playcalling. What about leadership? If you either can't judge talent or you do get talented players and you can't motivate them enough to beat the Navy's of the world, exactly why should we believe free agents are going to look at that fat load and say "I know Buffalo's offer is a little less but I want to run through a wall for ol Charlie Weiss" or guys on the roster like TO will say "this guys a genius and a leader, let me sign up for some more Buffalo fun times". Yeah right. We'd give this guy five years and after 2 games it would look dumber than ND giving him 10. :puke:

Yea ummm... wrong. Pats have never won a Superbowl without Weis.

Don't you recall their last Superbowl win against the Eagles in which Weis, Belicheck, and Crennel all huddled up on the sideline and hugged, because they knew that was the last time they'd be together.

Weis was the OC for every single one of the Patriots SB wins.

[Bill Cody]

So is your face clearing up now then...

Not really no I was talking about Cowher

[baalworship]

Whether you like it or not, there is no way in the world that Charlie Weis would take the Bills job with the same personnel people currently in place.

He might be arrogant but no one is that stupid.

[Bill Cody]

Yea ummm... wrong. Pats have never won a Superbowl without Weis.

Don't you recall their last Superbowl win against the Eagles in which Weis, Belicheck, and Crennel all huddled up on the sideline and hugged, because they knew that was the last time they'd be together.

Weis was the OC for every single one of the Patriots SB wins.

You're right my bad. But the 2007 teams offense was way better than any of Weiss' teams, the D wasn't quite as good though. My main point is most everyone here would be fine with Weiss as OC. He's very good at that although I don't think NE misses him too much. As an NFL HC prospect? Not so much.

[Bill Cody]

:hi5:

I love the passion but these Bills are going to end up giving us all heart attacks!

Yeah true. But after the last decade change don't you ever get the urge to just grab RW out of his wheel chair, rip off his bib and shake him? :please:

Ok fine decaf the rest of the day.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Yeah true. But after the last decade change don't you ever get the urge to just grab RW out of his wheel chair, rip off his bib and shake him? :please:

Ok fine decaf the rest of the day.
I hear you.

[Bill Cody]

Whether you like it or not, there is no way in the world that Charlie Weis would take the Bills job with the same personnel people currently in place.

He might be arrogant but no one is that stupid.

He's not stupid but he knows that even if the league expanded to 50 teams Buffalo is the only team that would be desperate enough to give him a sniff. Weiss would take Ralph as personnel mgr with his daughter as head of scouting if he got to be an NFL HC.

[Ingtar33]

Yea ummm... wrong. Pats have never won a Superbowl without Weis.

Don't you recall their last Superbowl win against the Eagles in which Weis, Belicheck, and Crennel all huddled up on the sideline and hugged, because they knew that was the last time they'd be together.

Weis was the OC for every single one of the Patriots SB wins.


of course it was better... that team had welker and moss. brady had Troy Brown and Deon Branch on his superbowl teams. Nothing against brown and branch but that's hardly a "great duo"

[Bill Cody]

of course it was better... that team had welker and moss. brady had Troy Brown and Deon Branch on his superbowl teams. Nothing against brown and branch but that's hardly a "great duo"

true enough but just so as we're clear you think the team that scored more points than any in the history of the NFL and went 16-0 would have been better off with Charlie Weiss? I'm just trying to understand how Weiss gets such a big boost from basically riding on BB's coattails. If you want to go down that road Romeo Crennel is another fat tub of goo that won 3 SB's with BB and has since also proven he's not a HC. Should Romeo be on the short list too? Just asking.

[TrEd FTW]

true enough but just so as we're clear you think the team that scored more points than any in the history of the NFL and went 16-0 would have been better off with Charlie Weiss? I'm just trying to understand how Weiss gets such a big boost from basically riding on BB's coattails. If you want to go down that road Romeo Crennel is another fat tub of goo that won 3 SB's with BB and has since also proven he's not a HC. Should Romeo be on the short list too? Just asking.

So Weis gets no credit for helping to develop Tom Brady? Is it Weis's fault that Moss & Welker came after his time and he had to make do with lesser weapons? The Patriots had average to slightly above-average skill players during Weis's tenure, yet he still made it work to the tune of three Super Bowl rings.

[PECKERWOOD]

of course it was better... that team had welker and moss. brady had Troy Brown and Deon Branch on his superbowl teams. Nothing against brown and branch but that's hardly a "great duo"

Troy Brown was a great player, he even played some cornerback for New England during their 1st superbowl run if I remember correctly. Branch wasn't a bad player, their receiving corps wasn't the best but they were a good unit, definitely team players to say the least.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Troy Brown was a great player, he even played some cornerback for New England during their 1st superbowl run if I remember correctly. Branch wasn't a bad player, their receiving corps wasn't the best but they were a good unit, definitely team players to say the least.
Neither were on par with with Moss or Welker for that matter.

[Demon]

Troy Brown was a great player, he even played some cornerback for New England during their 1st superbowl run if I remember correctly. Branch wasn't a bad player, their receiving corps wasn't the best but they were a good unit, definitely team players to say the least.

And got his first INT against Bledsoe and the Bills.

[PECKERWOOD]

Neither were on par with with Moss or Welker for that matter.

Moss strikes me as an elite individual type of player, but some players are just better in terms of building chemistry, even though their individual skill set isn't as good. Terrell Owens is another Randy Moss, I'd be surprised to see either of them ever win a Superbowl ring.

[PECKERWOOD]

Like many of you, the thing that pisses me off the most about this is that they are looking at HC candidates like Weiss without hiring a real GM first.

Yeah, that must mean that we're keeping our current front office. :sadwalk:

[Mr. Pink]

You know what?

If we keep the front office intact I don't even give a crap who we hire.

It simply won't matter, we'll be a talentless crappy football team regardless.

[Jeff1220]

You know what?

If we keep the front office intact I don't even give a crap who we hire.

It simply won't matter, we'll be a talentless crappy football team regardless.

Unfortunately, this looks like the true future of the Bills. :ill:

[Bill Cody]

So Weis gets no credit for helping to develop Tom Brady?

Good point. Ok let's hire him as QB coach.:nod:

[SeatownBillsFan21]

He will be our next head coach.He was all but penciled in b4 we hired Malarkey a few years back PS Vic is saying there is a GOOD sing he wil end up in Buffalo

[Commissioner]

He will be our next head coach.He was all but penciled in b4 we hired Malarkey a few years back PS Vic is saying there is a GOOD sing he wil end up in Buffalo

Who is Vic and where is he saying this?

[Nighthawk]

He will be our next head coach.He was all but penciled in b4 we hired Malarkey a few years back PS Vic is saying there is a GOOD sing he wil end up in Buffalo

Umm, where did Vic Carucci say this?