Russ Grimm

[soapman]

Ok what's with the lovefest for Russ Grimm? I'm just curious because alot of zoners want him as our next coach. What has he done to make him the best candidate? I mean the guy is an offensive line coach! He served under Cowher, so what! I mean if I had my choice, I'd take Weis over Grimm just on the fact that he served under arguably one of the best coaches in history A. and B. he took a green Tom Brady and made him one of the best quarterbacks of all time. Say what you want about him but Tim Brady and that offense minus the one super year, hasn't been the same since he left. If he can do what he did with that rag tag team that beat the greatest show on turf, I would be excited to see what he can do with this bunch of misfits. What has Grimm done, coached a team to the leading ypg rushing average? IMO of course.

[RockStar36]

He was a large part of the Steelers first SB run and when he went over to Arizona with Wisenhunt, the Cards immediately became a contender.

[Beastie Bills]

Well, our offensive line has been pathetic since Jimbo was still the QB, so I'd like a coach who will address our OLine problems.

[justasportsfan]

Well, our offensive line has been pathetic since Jimbo was still the QB, so I'd like a coach who will address our OLine problems.


you don't need an OL coach for HC to address that. An offensive minded coach can do that as well.

Grimm is a great OL coach. Does he know how to develop a qb? a rb? X's and O's when D's give you different looks? :idunno:

[kernowboy]

Ok

1. Grimm is an exceptional coach particularly on the OL having made both Samuels and Jansen at the Redskins into stellar players, and turned a bunch of average players at both the Steelers and the Cardinals into a decent winning line.

2. He is known as an unassuming blue collar guy with no airs and frills who gets the job done .... we don't need a press wannabe, we want someone who despises losing

3. He has 4 SuperBowl rings, three as a player, one as a coach. The guy knows how to win.

4. He learnt under not just Bill Cowher, but Joe Gibbs who he played for and who gave him his first break

5. Not only is he an OL expert but he is the running game co-ordinator at the Cardinals turning Hightower into an acceptable RB.

6. It was literally a coin toss between him and Mike Tomlin for the Steelers job - he's not good at selling himself which is good for us.

7. Brady's record post Weis 2004-07 is as good as with him

8. Grimm does not have failure on his record in the way Weis has.

Why the love-in with Weis should be the question? Grimm hasn't had to rely on cheating costing his team a R1 pick and heavy fines the way the Patriot coaches have

[kernowboy]

you don't need an OL coach for HC to address that. An offensive minded coach can do that as well.

Grimm is a great OL coach. Does he know how to develop a qb? a rb? X's and O's when D's give you different looks? :idunno:

No but a Head Coach is rarely responsible for QB development - that is often the OCs job and hiring an OC like Hue Jackson who developed Carson Palmer could easily solve that issue

[justasportsfan]

No but a Head Coach is rarely responsible for QB development - that is often the OCs job and hiring an OC like Hue Jackson who developed Carson Palmer could easily solve that issue
I would put my faith on a proven OC than a proven OL coach running an entire offense.

BTW, I am not against Grimm but just don't know what the facination is.

[PECKERWOOD]

Ok what's with the lovefest for Russ Grimm? I'm just curious because alot of zoners want him as our next coach. What has he done to make him the best candidate? I mean the guy is an offensive line coach! He served under Cowher, so what! I mean if I had my choice, I'd take Weis over Grimm just on the fact that he served under arguably one of the best coaches in history A. and B. he took a green Tom Brady and made him one of the best quarterbacks of all time. Say what you want about him but Tim Brady and that offense minus the one super year, hasn't been the same since he left. If he can do what he did with that rag tag team that beat the greatest show on turf, I would be excited to see what he can do with this bunch of misfits. What has Grimm done, coached a team to the leading ypg rushing average? IMO of course.

Weis also coached up Brady Quinn and Jimmy Clausen pretty well too, despite Cleveland's absolute slaughtering of Quinn's development. It just seems obvious to me that if we want to have consistency at QB in Buffalo for once, Weis would be a good hire in doing so.

[baalworship]

I like Grimm but I don't see it as a big plus that he developed Chris Samuels. The guy was the third overall pick in the NFL draft.

But don't downplay his offensive line credentials. Just as Jauron couldn't help himself from picking DB's, Grimm would most likely be biased towards solid o and d line play.

[mikemac2001]

[QUOTE=justasportsfan]I would put my faith on a proven OC than a proven OL coach running an entire offense.

because our oline sucks....and it has killed this offense. our D would be better if our offense actually scored points and controlled TOP

i don;t know much about grimm but i like what ive heard about him and his background....not my top choice but i dont want charlie **** ass weis

[PECKERWOOD]

No but a Head Coach is rarely responsible for QB development - that is often the OCs job and hiring an OC like Hue Jackson who developed Carson Palmer could easily solve that issue

That's not true, quarterbacks are like a head coaches second in command. Why do you think that whenever a timeout is called, the QB goes over to talk with the head coach?

[justasportsfan]

because our oline sucks....and it has killed this offense. our D would be better if our offense actually scored points and controlled TOP

i don;t know much about grimm but i like what ive heard about him and his background....not my top choice but i dont want charlie **** ass weis

we've also had a crappy qb situation and unimaginative offensive gameplan and playcalling. I don't want Weiss as HC either.

[kernowboy]

Why the fascintation with Bill Cowher?

He's won a single superbowl at one of the best run franchises in the league

Most of his coordinators have become successful head coaches, so was Cowher the cheerleader to their expertise?

He has had superb GMs providing him with exceptional rosters.

Would he sink or swim without such a surrounding cast?

[kernowboy]

That's not true, quarterbacks are like a head coaches second in command. Why do you think that whenever a timeout is called, the QB goes over to talk with the head coach?

And what about the Head Coaches from a defensive background with no record in offensive play prior to being Head Coach?

Take the NYG - is it the defensively minded Coughlin or the OC/QB guru Chris Palmer who develops Eli Manning?

[Demon]

Prior to the game vs. Minnesota on MNF, Grimm's offensive line started 17 consecutive games. The man knows talent when he sees it. He played around with a few guys and took over a disaster of a line after Denny Green left them. Once he figured out who the top 5 linemen were, they kept on starting. What's Bills longest streak for starting lineman in the last decade?

[soapman]

Ok

1. Grimm is an exceptional coach particularly on the OL having made both Samuels and Jansen at the Redskins into stellar players, and turned a bunch of average players at both the Steelers and the Cardinals into a decent winning line.

And this makes him a good head coach candidate or a good o-line candidate?


2. He is known as an unassuming blue collar guy with no airs and frills who gets the job done .... we don't need a press wannabe, we want someone who despises losing

Who are the coaches that like losing again? Definitely don't want them.


3. He has 4 SuperBowl rings, three as a player, one as a coach. The guy knows how to win.
Gale Gilbert went to 5 straight Super Bowls. Charles Haley has 5 rings. Just because you are on the team doesn't mean you know how to win. How many play calls or decisions do you think he made in any of those 4 superbowls? I'll give you a clue. ZERO.


4. He learnt under not just Bill Cowher, but Joe Gibbs who he played for and who gave him his first break
So just because he coached under those two we should make him our coach? What has he proved? How much interaction goes on between an o-line coach and HC? How does that qualify as a good HC candidate?


5. Not only is he an OL expert but he is the running game co-ordinator at the Cardinals turning Hightower into an acceptable RB.
Wasn't he there with Edg and wasn't he there in 08 when they didn't have 1 500 yard back? Is it possible Tim Hightower or better yet the Running backs coach have something to do with that?


6. It was literally a coin toss between him and Mike Tomlin for the Steelers job - he's not good at selling himself which is good for us.
He was also passed over for Ken Whisy and Lovie Smith. All coordinators, play callers, experienced guys. Go figure. The Bills don't know anything and I damn sure know that they don't know more that the cardinals and the steelers when it comes to decisions. He was passed over for a reason. Worked out will for 2 of the 3. Oh and how is someone that CAN'T sell himself good for us?


7. Brady's record post Weis 2004-07 is as good as with him
Exactly. When Charlie was there, there was no Randy Moss/Wes Welker. There was no Marony. He did it with Troy Brown and Antwan Smith(Ugh).


8. Grimm does not have failure on his record in the way Weis has.
He also doesn't have relevant success either. Mute point.


Why the love-in with Weis should be the question? Grimm hasn't had to rely on cheating costing his team a R1 pick and heavy fines the way the Patriot coaches have
I can see your a historian. Weis left NE in 04. Spygate was 07. You are no longer a qualified opponent.

[soapman]

Prior to the game vs. Minnesota on MNF, Grimm's offensive line started 17 consecutive games. The man knows talent when he sees it. He played around with a few guys and took over a disaster of a line after Denny Green left them. Once he figured out who the top 5 linemen were, they kept on starting. What's Bills longest streak for starting lineman in the last decade?

Again, how does this equal head coach? You just made a very good case for him as a scout though. Is that position open?

[kernowboy]

Again, how does this equal head coach? You just made a very good case for him as a scout though. Is that position open?

It was rumoured that the Pats were spying as early as their win over the Rams when Weis was there.

Your slatting of Grimm is the same that come be said for any guy who has never been a Head Coach.

Grimm is the running back coordinator at the Cards so he has had a hell of a lot to do with their success on the ground. After all James, went to the Seahawks and did nothing.

You slate Grimm as an OL scout. He's identified the best 5 players and COACHED them into a successful unit

You clearly don't like Grimm so fair enough but its pretty poor to imply he has had nothing to do with the success at the Steelers or the Cards

[kernowboy]

And whilst you might think Smith, Deion Branch and Brown are useless they clearly did well enough for the Pats front office not to want to upgrade.

Now have a look at the tools Grimm had to work with including Mike Gandy at LT, yet his OL still got the Cards to the SuperBowl.

[Demon]

Again, how does this equal head coach? You just made a very good case for him as a scout though. Is that position open?

Every coach who has no HC experience is a risk. Including Weis and Grimm. Many make it, some don't. I wouldn't want Grimm with as the man with all the power, but with good coaches on both the offense and defense and a good GM, i wouldn't mind Grimm. He loves power football. He worked in Pittsburgh. He has build great lines everywhere he's been to. You build the line, the running game will follow and it will be easier to find a QB. The question will be, can Grimm (or his assistants or GM) find that QB? If not, he'll be doomed. If Weis comes and drafts the wrong QB, he'll be doomed too.

There's also a stat about 100 yard rushers in Arizona under Grimm. Pretty crazy, maybe when i have more time later i will look it up.

[soapman]

It was rumoured that the Pats were spying as early as their win over the Rams when Weis was there.
So what about all the wins that got them to the Super Bowl?


Your slatting of Grimm is the same that come be said for any guy who has never been a Head Coach.
No because he has never called a play. He has never had to make a 4th Down call. He has never been forced to use time management. He has never done anything on Sunday that would preclude him being HC material.

Grimm is the running back coordinator at the Cards so he has had a hell of a lot to do with their success on the ground. After all James, went to the Seahawks and did nothing.
He had Hightower that year as well but that's besides the point. So what? Why not make him an OC or keep him at O-Line coach? What makes him a head coach is what I'm asking. Have we learned nothing from the Jim Zorn era in DC?

You slate Grimm as an OL scout. He's identified the best 5 players and COACHED them into a successful unit
No, I said from what Demon decribed, it sounded like he could be a great scout.

You clearly don't like Grimm so fair enough but its pretty poor to imply he has had nothing to do with the success at the Steelers or the Cards
I think he's a great OL coach. No doubt about that, but I don't know him not to like him. I don't even know what he looks like. But I don't like him as a HC when he doesn't even have play calling duty responsibilities of any kind. Let me say it again. JIM ZORN JIM ZORN JIM ZORN! And he actually called plays as a QB...

[soapman]

And whilst you might think Smith, Deion Branch and Brown are useless they clearly did well enough for the Pats front office not to want to upgrade.

Now have a look at the tools Grimm had to work with including Mike Gandy at LT, yet his OL still got the Cards to the SuperBowl.

They did do well enough but where they anywhere close to what he has now? No, and CW was able to win with that. Saying that the FO thought they were good enough is not a very good argument btw. Look what our FO thinks is good enough.

Was Mike Gandy really bad or was he bad on this team? He got some pretty high praise in AZ.

[soapman]

Every coach who has no HC experience is a risk. Including Weis and Grimm. Many make it, some don't. I wouldn't want Grimm with as the man with all the power, but with good coaches on both the offense and defense and a good GM, i wouldn't mind Grimm. He loves power football. He worked in Pittsburgh. He has build great lines everywhere he's been to. You build the line, the running game will follow and it will be easier to find a QB. The question will be, can Grimm (or his assistants or GM) find that QB? If not, he'll be doomed. If Weis comes and drafts the wrong QB, he'll be doomed too.

There's also a stat about 100 yard rushers in Arizona under Grimm. Pretty crazy, maybe when i have more time later i will look it up.

There's more to a HC than that. If it was all about the coordinators you and I could get up there and tag team on this thing with a good OC, DC, ST staff. Grimm had no experience, period. He hasn't earned a HC job. He may be due a OC slot, but HC he is not.

[EDS]

Why the fascintation with Bill Cowher?

He's won a single superbowl at one of the best run franchises in the league

Most of his coordinators have become successful head coaches, so was Cowher the cheerleader to their expertise?

He has had superb GMs providing him with exceptional rosters.

Would he sink or swim without such a surrounding cast?

Not sure it is a criticism to say a head coach hires good assistants. That is a positive in my book.

[Patti120]

I thought it was a good fit because things have been so grim around here for so long.

[BILLSROCK1212]

Grimm would have been the Steelers HC now if it weren't for the Rooney Rule, he's a proven winner, he's an O-line coach so he knows the trenches are where its at....this guy is the definition of what Bills football needs to be

[soapman]

Grimm would have been the Steelers HC now if it weren't for the Rooney Rule, he's a proven winner, he's an O-line coach so he knows the trenches are where its at....this guy is the definition of what Bills football needs to be
Wow, racist much?

[Mr. Pink]

Bill Cowher was a special teams coach and then the coach of the secondary in Cleveland when he was first interviewed by Art Modell for the Browns HC job.

Of course he lost out to Bud Carson who had more experience at the time and look how that turned out in the long run?

Cowher followed Schottenheimer to KC as the DC then became the Steelers HC.

Just because someone doesn't have experience with calling the plays, etc doesn't mean they're not any less qualified to do the job.

[Night Train]

Why are we worried about promoting a position coach two levels to HC before hiring an actual GM to run this team and pick his own coach ?

This is wrong on so many levels.

[soapman]

Bill Cowher was a special teams coach and then the coach of the secondary in Cleveland when he was first interviewed by Art Modell for the Browns HC job.

Of course he lost out to Bud Carson who had more experience at the time and look how that turned out in the long run?

Cowher followed Schottenheimer to KC as the DC then became the Steelers HC.

Just because someone doesn't have experience with calling the plays, etc doesn't mean they're not any less qualified to do the job.

Genius, you realized you helped prove my point? Cowher was a DC! He had experience when he took the Pitt job. He got passed over because he didn't. Because he was LESS QUALIFIED at the time. Coordinators have the unique experience controlling a gameplan, calling plays and know when to take risks and when not to, how to use the clock effectively through play calling, playcalling for schemes etc. You can't tell me that those things are a. not important, or b. not skills that may be known as a specialist but groomed and matured as a coordinator. And let's not forget, it took him 2 decades to win the big one in Pittsburg and he only won once.

[TigerJ]

Reports I've heard about suggest Grimm is a bright coach who coaches with passion. He's been with more than one winning program in the NFL, and has been a strong candidate for other head coaching positions. If you can't hire a former NFL head coach who was a consistent winner as a head coach, Grimm's credentials aren't bad.

[Mr. Pink]

Genius, you realized you helped prove my point? Cowher was a DC! He had experience when he took the Pitt job. He got passed over because he didn't. Because he was LESS QUALIFIED at the time. Coordinators have the unique experience controlling a gameplan, calling plays and know when to take risks and when not to, how to use the clock effectively through play calling, playcalling for schemes etc. You can't tell me that those things are a. not important, or b. not skills that may be known as a specialist but groomed and matured as a coordinator. And let's not forget, it took him 2 decades to win the big one in Pittsburg and he only won once.


He was passed because Art Modell is an idiot.

If he hires Cowher in 1989 or 1991 for that matter, he passed on Cowher twice, the Browns are in a whole different position today than they are now.

Cowher was more than qualified enough even then to coach the Browns in 1989, in fact he was one of the finalists in consideration.

Same like Russ Grimm was a finalist for the Steelers job when Tomlin was hired.

Who has more experience? A college coach or a guy who's worked at some level in an NFL organization?

[Coach Sal]

I agree with soapman.

It's always struck me as odd that a guy with the kinds of credentials he has has been passed over so many times -- and even by the very team he won a SB with as a coach, when he was already in place and on staff.

Something just doesn't add up as to why he hasn't gotten a head job.

...and soapman's picture in his sig is also totally cool. So he owns this thread on many levels. :)

[soapman]

He was passed because Art Modell is an idiot.

If he hires Cowher in 1989 or 1991 for that matter, he passed on Cowher twice, the Browns are in a whole different position today than they are now.

Cowher was more than qualified enough even then to coach the Browns in 1989, in fact he was one of the finalists in consideration.

Same like Russ Grimm was a finalist for the Steelers job when Tomlin was hired.

Who has more experience? A college coach or a guy who's worked at some level in an NFL organization?

I still don't understand what makes him so qualified in your eyes. And if you think Cowher may have been as successful in Cleveland if he was chosen however, he would have struggled more had he not learned some of the techniques you learn as a coordinator. The learning curve is to high. Look at Jim Zorn. If you are not a coordinator or a Black person apparently, you're not qualified.

[soapman]

I agree with soapman.

It's always struck me as odd that a guy with the kinds of credentials he has has been passed over so many times -- and even by the very team he won a SB with as a coach, when he was already in place and on staff.

Something just doesn't add up as to why he hasn't gotten a head job.

...and soapman's picture in his sig is also totally cool. So he owns this thread on many levels. :)
Thanks Sal. I agree with everything you said as well. 110%

[Mr. Pink]

I still don't understand what makes him so qualified in your eyes. And if you think Cowher may have been as successful in Cleveland if he was chosen however, he would have struggled more had he not learned some of the techniques you learn as a coordinator. The learning curve is to high. Look at Jim Zorn. If you are not a coordinator or a Black person apparently, you're not qualified.


So Mike Tomlin having one year as a DC prepared him to be a HC?

Eric Mangini being a DC for one year prepared him to be a HC? He did have success in NY.

John Harbaugh was a ST coach before getting the Baltimore HC job.

Barry Switzer won a SB without ever even being in the NFL prior to his stint in Dallas as the HC.

Two of the winningest coaches in NFL history were never coordinators or assistants in their respective careers. George Halas and Paul Brown.

So where does this argument that you need to be an assistant or coordinator to be qualified enough come from exactly?

By your argument Perry Fewell is more qualified to be a HC in this league than Russ Grimm.

[soapman]

So Mike Tomlin having one year as a DC prepared him to be a HC?
Yes it did
Eric Mangini being a DC for one year prepared him to be a HC? He did have success in NY.
Yes it did
John Harbaugh was a ST coach before getting the Baltimore HC job.
More qualified than a position coach IMO
Barry Switzer won a SB without ever even being in the NFL prior to his stint in Dallas as the HC.
He was a college HC since 1973 genius
Two of the winningest coaches in NFL history were never coordinators or assistants in their respective careers. George Halas and Paul Brown.
That was also early NFL. This isn't 1950 pal
So where does this argument that you need to be an assistant or coordinator to be qualified enough come from exactly?
Obviously you haven't been reading anything in the post and you've proved more of my point than your own. That's a terrible strategy.

By your argument Perry Fewell is more qualified to be a HC in this league than Russ Grimm.
Yes, by leaps and bounds. I'd take PF over Grimm anyday.