According to ESPN First Take...

[Michael82]

Leslie Frazier will bring either Al Saunders or Chris Palmer as his Offensive Coordinator. They also said that depending on how he interviews, Frazier could quickly become a favorite to become the new head coach.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

i also heard he is a dungy clone, so im sure nix is going to ask him about the cover 2 and what kind of scheme he runs with his dlineman, 2 gap or 1 gap....

if we cant get a big name i want rivera or harbaugh... but its not like frazier is a bad choice, i just think we need someone with a little more passion and fire....

[Slim]

According to who on ESPN? Just curious.

[Italian Stallion]

Frazier would be the worst choice we could make..outside of Cam Cameron of course.

He offers NOTHING that is any different from the previous trash ball regime that was in here.

[PECKERWOOD]

Saunders is a solid OC, that would be a great pickup. You see? Maybe this Frazier guy is pretty darn legitimate after all?

[Demon]

They ain't getting Frazier. No way, no how. He's just terrible! Chris Palmer? Really? May as well stick with AVP.

[DraftBoy]

Landing Saunders would be a huge get. Palmer Im more iffy on.

[Michael82]

i also heard he is a dungy clone, so im sure nix is going to ask him about the cover 2 and what kind of scheme he runs with his dlineman, 2 gap or 1 gap....

if we cant get a big name i want rivera or harbaugh... but its not like frazier is a bad choice, i just think we need someone with a little more passion and fire....

I heard that he runs a 2 gap system which is a lot better than the ****ty 1 gap system we use.

[DraftBoy]

Frazier would be the worst choice we could make..outside of Cam Cameron of course.

He offers NOTHING that is any different from the previous trash ball regime that was in here.


Prove it.

[mikemac2001]

NO COVER 2 WTF

[k-oneputt]

Take those two d-tackles that he inherited out of his defense and they wouldn't even be talking to him right now.

I wouldn't mind Harbaugh though.

[DraftBoy]

Take those two d-tackles that he inherited out of his defense and they wouldn't even be talking to him right now.

I wouldn't mind Harbaugh though.


What about his success in Cincy, Philly, and Indy? How are you going to try and make those no big deal?

[The Spaz]

No problems with Frazier especially if he brings Saunders.

[Italian Stallion]

Prove it.

Prove that he does?? I know you have a boner for him but heres a list of stuff hes known for:

- Defensive backs
- Cover 2 defense
- A "calm leader" who leads by example
- Known as a "players coach"
- Was fired once before (2003 Bengals by Marvin Lewis)
- Touted as an "up and comer" but lost out on openings in Atlanta, St Louis, Miami, Denver most recently


HOW IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT THAT THE **** THAT WAS HERE BEFORE? Not to mention he has NO head coaching experience at any level.

he sounds like a younger, less qualified DICK JAURON.

Now its ur turn...try to convince me.

[Demon]

What about his success in Cincy, Philly, and Indy? How are you going to try and make those no big deal?


Wasn't he fired from Cincy after 2 seasons? I havn't looked it up yet because i honestly don't like the guy, but i thought i read that here.

[Italian Stallion]

Wasn't he fired from Cincy after 2 seasons? I havn't looked it up yet because i honestly don't like the guy, but i thought i read that here.

Yep...Marvin Lewis canned him after his Defense was ranked WORST in the league.

[JD]

From Dick, to a guy named Leslie? What gives? :idunno:

[DraftBoy]

Prove that he does?? I know you have a boner for him but heres a list of stuff hes known for:

- Defensive backs
- Cover 2 defense
- A "calm leader" who leads by example
- Known as a "players coach"
- Was fired once before (2003 Bengals by Marvin Lewis)
- Touted as an "up and comer" but lost out on openings in Atlanta, St Louis, Miami, Denver most recently


HOW IS THIS ANY DIFFERENT THAT THE **** THAT WAS HERE BEFORE? Not to mention he has NO head coaching experience at any level.

he sounds like a younger, less qualified DICK JAURON.

Now its ur turn...try to convince me.

Your entire opinion on the guy is because he runs the same system and doesn't yell and scream?

How about some statistics instead;
He was defensive coordinator of the Cincinnati Bengals from 2003-2004 where he helped turn the unit into a group that increased takeaways from 24 in 2003 to 36 in 2004. The Bengals' 36 takeaways in '04 ranked 3rd in the NFL. The 2004 Bengals notched 20 interceptions, the most since 1996. The Bengals Defense improved from #28 in total yards allowed in 2003 to #19 in 2004, and declined in the two years following his dismissal.

In 2005, Frazier was hired by Tony Dungy as a defensive assistant for the Indianapolis Colts, receiving the title of Special Assistant to the Head Coach as well as Defensive Backs Coach. He was specifically brought in by Dungy to help the Colts young corps of Defensive Backs. During his time in Indy the Colts passing defense improved from 15th in 2005 to 2nd in 2006. On February 4, 2007 the Colts beat Frazier's former team, the Chicago Bears, in Super Bowl XLI. Four days later, on February 8, 2007

Can't really argue that he hasn't worked.

[Italian Stallion]

Your entire opinion on the guy is because he runs the same system and doesn't yell and scream?

How about some statistics instead;
He was defensive coordinator of the Cincinnati Bengals from 2003-2004 where he helped turn the unit into a group that increased takeaways from 24 in 2003 to 36 in 2004. The Bengals' 36 takeaways in '04 ranked 3rd in the NFL. The 2004 Bengals notched 20 interceptions, the most since 1996. The Bengals Defense improved from #28 in total yards allowed in 2003 to #19 in 2004, and declined in the two years following his dismissal.

In 2005, Frazier was hired by Tony Dungy as a defensive assistant for the Indianapolis Colts, receiving the title of Special Assistant to the Head Coach as well as Defensive Backs Coach. He was specifically brought in by Dungy to help the Colts young corps of Defensive Backs. During his time in Indy the Colts passing defense improved from 15th in 2005 to 2nd in 2006. On February 4, 2007 the Colts beat Frazier's former team, the Chicago Bears, in Super Bowl XLI. Four days later, on February 8, 2007

Can't really argue that he hasn't worked.

How does any of that qualify him to be a head coach? This organization needs CHANGE....I'm not saying the new coach has to be ANY certian way, but what I outlined is exacly what Fraizer is and thers no denying it.

I'm simply pointing out that he's no different that Jauron and Fewell. Except for the fact that he's never been a head coach before.

Sorry, but I bet 99% of this board will agree that this team needs a fresh outlook and new prospective....not more of the same.

[DraftBoy]

Wasn't he fired from Cincy after 2 seasons? I havn't looked it up yet because i honestly don't like the guy, but i thought i read that here.


He was and that was a mistake to fire him. As Cincy's defense got worse after he left. He actually improved their Defense greatly in his first year there. They were a turnover machine.

[DraftBoy]

How does any of that qualify him to be a head coach? This organization needs CHANGE....I'm not saying the new coach has to be ANY certian way, but what I outlined is exacly what Fraizer is and thers no denying it.

I'm simply pointing out that he's no different that Jauron and Fewell. Except for the fact that he's never been a head coach before.

Sorry, but I bet 99% of this board will agree that this team needs a fresh outlook and new prospective....not more of the same.


He has HC experience. He was the HC at Trinity College.

A fresh outlook and prospective? How do you know what Frazier's even is? The Cover 2 can be run successfull we've seen that with other teams, where he has been before. He runs a successful version of it.

So because he doesn't yell and he runs a Cover 2, he automatically a Jauron clone? That's quite the leap you're attempting to make considering neither Jauron nor Fewell combined have even half the resume that Frazier has.

[DraftBoy]

Yep...Marvin Lewis canned him after his Defense was ranked WORST in the league.


When was Cincy's D ranked worst?

[k-oneputt]

Trinity College ????? Really?

I'm glad you don't run the Bills. Actually you would have fit right in with Levy and Jauron.

[Italian Stallion]

He has HC experience. He was the HC at Trinity College.

A fresh outlook and prospective? How do you know what Frazier's even is? The Cover 2 can be run successfull we've seen that with other teams, where he has been before. He runs a successful version of it.

So because he doesn't yell and he runs a Cover 2, he automatically a Jauron clone? That's quite the leap you're attempting to make considering neither Jauron nor Fewell combined have even half the resume that Frazier has.


Trinity college? Really? That's what your going to lean on in this arguement? Wow, that's not even worth a response.

Yes I will agree that the Cover 2 can be run successfully if the right person is running it...for instance the guy who invented it Tony Dungy. Not to mention if you have 2 AMAZING D ends (Freeney and Mathis probally had something to do with those interceptions in Indy...we DONT have that talent and it doesnt just fall from the sky) You need the horses...our stable is bare.

HE GOT FIRED FROM CINCY. I don't care that it was a mistake in your opinion or not...bottom line is a HEAD COACH (who's still employed) thought that his D sucked and he needed to be canned. WTF cares how many interceptions they had in his time there...the Bills lead the league in that stat this season, how did we finish?

Bottom line is this guy would be a HORRIBLE choice and accepting it is just accepting more losing.

[DraftBoy]

Trinity College ????? Really?

I'm glad you don't run the Bills. Actually you would have fit right in with Levy and Jauron.

Does HC experience not count anymore?

[k-oneputt]

Does HC experience not count anymore?

Stop already you are embarrassing yourself.

[DraftBoy]

Trinity college? Really? That's what your going to lean on in this arguement? Wow, that's not even worth a response.

Yes I will agree that the Cover 2 can be run successfully if the right person is running it...for instance the guy who invented it Tony Dungy. Not to mention if you have 2 AMAZING D ends (Freeney and Mathis probally had something to do with those interceptions in Indy...we DONT have that talent and it doesnt just fall from the sky) You need the horses...our stable is bare.

HE GOT FIRED FROM CINCY. I don't care that it was a mistake in your opinion or not...bottom line is a HEAD COACH (who's still employed) thought that his D sucked and he needed to be canned. WTF cares how many interceptions they had in his time there...the Bills lead the league in that stat this season, how did we finish?

Bottom line is this guy would be a HORRIBLE choice and accepting it is just accepting more losing.

Does HC experience not count anymore? I dont care if its DIII, NAIA, CFL, or Arena League. Being a professional or collegiate HC counts as experience.

Who do you think helped Frazier really further develop his C2? Maybe it was that Dungy guy he worked as a Special Defensive Assistant under.

So if being fired is such a crime, you wouldn't of wanted Belicheck either right? I mean he got fired before.

You have no statistics to back up your point, its all based on you think he's a Jauron clone, which you can't prove in any way shape or form. Its a completely illogical point of view.

[Italian Stallion]

Stop already you are embarrassing yourself.

Agreed. I repect everyone's right to an opinion but come on.

Yes, HC experience at MOTHER F ING TRINITY COLLEGE may as well not count. Sorry. Weak and meaningless.

[DraftBoy]

Stop already you are embarrassing yourself.

No Im not, people said they don't like Grimm because he hasn't called plays or been and HC.

Now Frazier has done both but it suddenly doesn't count anymore because its a lesser known college. Its just more conveinent excuses.

[k-oneputt]

I can guarantee one thing, if the Bills hire Frazier there will be an uproar from the fan base.

[Demon]

So let me get this right.

He worked under Marvin Lewis, a defensive guru. (and got fired)
Then worked under Tony Dungy, a defensive guru.
Then worked under Mike Tomlin and then kept his system and had loads of talent.

But, all of his success was all Frazier, right? It wasn't the added TALENT or the work of Lewis or Dungy. Now i get it.

[Jaybird]

Draftboy, don't you realize by now that many posters make an opinion without knowing any facts or have any proof to back anything up. People are hating on Leslie because they see a calm mannered coach like DJ (and of course the entire Cowher situation).

This is not a plug for LF as head coach

[DBrown77]

Al Saunders???? No thanks. Dont want him and his enormous complicated offense. Jason Campbell is a smart guy and he couldnt get it down.

[Italian Stallion]

I can guarantee one thing, if the Bills hire Frazier there will be an uproar from the fan base.

Yup couldn't agree more.

And putting stats aside...what side of the ball has been the worst for this team the past oh I dont know...10 years? THE OFFENSE. I don't know about anyone else but I'd like to score points. Can't win unless you score...and theres no way you can prove to me Frazier knows a gad damn thing about an offense and developing a QB (Al Saunders and Chris Palmer have been fired MULTIPLE TIMES so dont even reason his possible coordinator choice).

LOLisle Fraizer. Can't help you score points. Sorry Draftboy

[Italian Stallion]

So let me get this right.

He worked under Marvin Lewis, a defensive guru. (and got fired)
Then worked under Tony Dungy, a defensive guru.
Then worked under Mike Tomlin and then kept his system and had loads of talent.

But, all of his success was all Frazier, right? It wasn't the added TALENT or the work of Lewis or Dungy. Now i get it.

Well put. this guy is garbage and shouldn't get near the Bills sideline

[k-oneputt]

Draftboy, don't you realize by now that many posters make an opinion without knowing any facts or have any proof to back anything up. People are hating on Leslie because they see a calm mannered coach like DJ (and of course the entire Cowher situation).

This is not a plug for LF as head coach


I believe Demon and the Stallion laid out many impotant facts.

Please, lets all hope we don't have to go down the LF coaching road.

[DraftBoy]

You know on second thought I wouldn't count the experience either.

I mean he only lead his team to an undefeated season in 1993, no big accomplishment there. He also set conference records that year that still stand to this day;

Largest Margin of Victory-71 Points
Most Points Scored in a Season-355
Most Offensive Yards in a Game: 663
Most Offensive Yards in a Season: 3738

Not bad for a DC...but you're right none of that matters at all. :whistle:

[DraftBoy]

Yup couldn't agree more.

And putting stats aside...what side of the ball has been the worst for this team the past oh I dont know...10 years? THE OFFENSE. I don't know about anyone else but I'd like to score points. Can't win unless you score...and theres no way you can prove to me Frazier knows a gad damn thing about an offense and developing a QB (Al Saunders and Chris Palmer have been fired MULTIPLE TIMES so dont even reason his possible coordinator choice).

LOLisle Fraizer. Can't help you score points. Sorry Draftboy


Oh Im so glad you said that...see my above post.

[Italian Stallion]

oh and then why has he "fallen short" and been picked over at least 4 times for open jobs in the past few years?

Something's got to be the reason for that...one time I could understand but at least 4??

I guess we've sunk to an even lower low here in Buffalo

[DraftBoy]

Draftboy, don't you realize by now that many posters make an opinion without knowing any facts or have any proof to back anything up. People are hating on Leslie because they see a calm mannered coach like DJ (and of course the entire Cowher situation).

This is not a plug for LF as head coach

Oh Im well aware which is why its fun to discuss things because while Im not what 6 or 7 posts deep and still bringing up new points and facts, they havent brought one up since they said he was mild mannered and ran the C2.

Its a lot of fun for me at least.

[DraftBoy]

oh and then why has he "fallen short" and been picked over at least 4 times for open jobs in the past few years?

Something's got to be the reason for that...one time I could understand but at least 4??

I guess we've sunk to an even lower low here in Buffalo

What jobs do you know he was in the running for? He was never interview by Atlanta, which you mentioned before so that's out. I know he's had at least one interview last year with Denver but I havent seen him interview many other places. His name was linked but not interviewed to my knowledge.

[Italian Stallion]

St. Louis and Denver he was a "finalist" for. Go sharpen your booger-picking finger and google those.

He interviewed in Miami and was a favorite for the job in ATL

[DraftBoy]

St. Louis and Denver he was a "finalist" for. Go sharpen your booger-picking finger and google those.

He interviewed in Miami and was a favorite for the job in ATL


Gotta love the defensive nature of posters who don't like being disagreed with.

And you are right about those four, he was passed over for them all, he was never a favorite for Atlanta though. On that whoever reported it are incorrect, the two favorites were Mike Smith and Russ Grimm.

[madness]

Fact is beating the **** out of opinion in this thread. :box:

[Demon]

Oh Im well aware which is why its fun to discuss things because while Im not what 6 or 7 posts deep and still bringing up new points and facts, they havent brought one up since they said he was mild mannered and ran the C2.

Its a lot of fun for me at least.

People have brought up multiple points. Just because you keep referring to his mild manner and the fact he ran a C2 doesn't mean that's all that was said. But, i hate to do this and will copy something from another message board.

Viks on Frazier-


Has Frazier really helped or attempted to make our D better. I think he pushed for Allen, but his scheme doesn't fit our talent perfectly. If he left would we be in a bad situation? I would love to have Tomlin coaching any part of this team still.

I think that teams should not be allowed to interview coaches while the season is still ongoing (postseason included).

That said, I don't think Frazier is a great HC candidate; I am still fairly underwhelmed with what he's done with our D (for the most part). Then again, I thought similar things about Tomlin.

I think Frazier is over rated as a DC. Maybe he will make a decent HC, I dont know. But he hasnt impressed me one bit as a DC for the Vikings. It could very well be Chilly requires him to play so conservitive, I dont know, but he has done nothing IMO, to deserve a HC position. I sorta hope he gets a HC job, maybe the next DC will be more aggressive and drop some of this terribly soft cover-two. I realize we dont have a shut down corner or the best safties, but I hate our scheme.

I have no idea what kind of motivator Leslie Frazier is, nor do I know if he has any concept of putting together an offense. It almost seems like he's just "there" on the sidelines. So it's hard to say whether his hiring would help Buffalo or hurt us.

IF it's frazier's style of defense to just sit back and let teams take easy yardage and very low turn over rate mean while with the league leading sack rate I would hope he gets replaced, perhaps by him taking a "promotion" to another team. This just shows to me that we have a very good defensive line TALENT wise and a monkey could get production out of jared allen. (though frazier struggled even with that lately)

I think we should pay Buffalo to take him. He is no better than Cottrell, O'Leary, or any other coordinator we have had in the last, well, since Dungy. Tomlin was about the only half decent DC in the last 15 years. And he was one and done, unfortunately. But Frasier has not improved the D one bit.

http://vikingsmessageboard.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20633

Frazier has a BOAT LOAD of talent in Minnesota yet opponents have figured out a way to air it out on them with ease. How come this mastermind couldn't figure it out? He was a DB coach by trade, how come their PASS DEFENSE is weak????

[DraftBoy]

People have brought up multiple points. Just because you keep referring to his mild manner and the fact he ran a C2 doesn't mean that's all that was said. But, i hate to do this and will copy something from another message board.

Viks on Frazier-



http://vikingsmessageboard.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=20633

Frazier has a BOAT LOAD of talent in Minnesota yet opponents have figured out a way to air it out on them with ease. How come this mastermind couldn't figure it out? He was a DB coach by trade, how come their PASS DEFENSE is weak????

Its fan opinion...what do you want me to say?

Ive already shown multiple other places where he created turnover machines in the passing game (see Cincy) and many of the fans in that thread, question if its Frazier or Childress who institutes the soft coverage scheme.

It doesnt really say a whole lot of anything, similar to this thread. More conjecture than anything substantial.

Well except that under Frazier their D has improved the last two years.

[Demon]

Its fan opinion...what do you want me to say?

Ive already shown multiple other places where he created turnover machines in the passing game (see Cincy) and many of the fans in that thread, question if its Frazier or Childress who institutes the soft coverage scheme.

It doesnt really say a whole lot of anything, similar to this thread. More conjecture than anything substantial.

Well except that under Frazier their D has improved the last two years.

You're putting his name on something you probably shouldn't. You think Marvin Lewis in charge, and a horrid DB, that they didn't go out and improve talent wise? Was it the SAME guys? You think it had nothing to do with Marvin Lewis?

This is a defense that allows yards by the pass like crazy. News flash, Buffalo doesn't have the powerful offense as Minnesota does to get those points back. Buffalo never will have the talent that he has now on the front 7.

The cover2 is whack. He didn't have the right personal there but used it anyways because it worked under Tomlin. He needed to adjust to the talent he has had and he's failed. Teams pass on them with ease.

I think Marvin Lewis and Dungy had more to do with it then him. And "fan opinion". Last time i checked, none of us were experts, we're fans just like those people.

[DraftBoy]

You're putting his name on something you probably shouldn't. You think Marvin Lewis in charge, and a horrid DB, that they didn't go out and improve talent wise? Was it the SAME guys? You think it had nothing to do with Marvin Lewis?

This is a defense that allows yards by the pass like crazy. News flash, Buffalo doesn't have the powerful offense as Minnesota does to get those points back. Buffalo never will have the talent that he has now on the front 7.

The cover2 is whack. He didn't have the right personal there but used it anyways because it worked under Tomlin. He needed to adjust to the talent he has had and he's failed. Teams pass on them with ease.

I think Marvin Lewis and Dungy had more to do with it then him. And "fan opinion". Last time i checked, none of us were experts, we're fans just like those people.

Could be Lewis doing, and this could be Childress. I think giving Lewis credit for doing good work and blaming Frazier for only bad is unfair. Either give him credit for both or give him credit for neither.

I think he learned a ton from Andy Reid, Marvin Lewis, and Tony Dungy and I would hope he would that's a hell of a coaching tree.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

You're putting his name on something you probably shouldn't. You think Marvin Lewis in charge, and a horrid DB, that they didn't go out and improve talent wise? Was it the SAME guys? You think it had nothing to do with Marvin Lewis?

This is a defense that allows yards by the pass like crazy. News flash, Buffalo doesn't have the powerful offense as Minnesota does to get those points back. Buffalo never will have the talent that he has now on the front 7.

The cover2 is whack. He didn't have the right personal there but used it anyways because it worked under Tomlin. He needed to adjust to the talent he has had and he's failed. Teams pass on them with ease.

I think Marvin Lewis and Dungy had more to do with it then him. And "fan opinion". Last time i checked, none of us were experts, we're fans just like those people.

This is a complele lye, his first season he allowed a ton of yards but they only gave up under 75 yards rushing a game. In 08 they finished 18th allowing 215 a game and this year there 19th ahead of the Eagles with about the same. Also, Frazier has had more than 38 sacks in every season where his linebackers and db's get a handfull of those.

[Demon]

This is a complele lye, his first season he allowed a ton of yards but they only gave up under 75 yards rushing a game. In 08 they finished 18th allowing 215 a game and this year there 19th ahead of the Eagles with about the same. Also, Frazier has had more than 38 sacks in every season where his linebackers and db's get a handfull of those.


A team with Jared Allen better have over 38 sacks. The dude commands double teams and still gets to the QB. And, having A.Winfield, the BEST tackling CB in the league, probably doesn't hurt either, but idk, i'm just a fan opinion.

Give me a break with this loser. Bring Perry Fewell back instead of this bum.

[PECKERWOOD]

Stop already you are embarrassing yourself.

As far as first time head coaches go, who would you prefer? Grimm doesn't want to be here and it looks like Cowher, Schottenheimer and Billick won't be coming. Who does that leave? Charlie Weis was just hired by Kansas City, leaving us with Frazier and Rivera.. Throw some names out there if you're going to blast people for having an opinion.

[Martian13]

NO FRAZIER...WE NEED TO TAKE COWHER' S FAMILY HOSTAGE AND TELL HIM TO SIGN OR SAY GOODBYE TO THE KIDS!!!!!!! :viking:

[k-oneputt]

Cowher
Billick
M. Schott.
Harbaugh
Any coach with an offensive background
Riveria

Chuck Knox
Leslie Frazier

In that order.

[Luisito23]

Give me a break with this loser. Bring Perry Fewell back instead of this bum.


Even though he's a bum like Leslie at least Fewell had emotion.

[jdbillsfan]

He was and that was a mistake to fire him. As Cincy's defense got worse after he left. He actually improved their Defense greatly in his first year there. They were a turnover machine.

The Bills D this year was a turnover machine. Doesn't make them good.

[Italian Stallion]

The Bills D this year was a turnover machine. Doesn't make them good.

Couldn't agree more...I said somethign very similar earlier in this thread.....so what if his defenses get turnovers? The Bills lead the league in INT's this yr....6-10