Source: It will be Frazier

[T-Long]

As you all know, I've worked for Yahoo! Sports, ESPN Radio, Sirius NFL Radio, etc etc etc...this is the first time I have ever posted anything from a source. I just never felt comfortable about it until now.

Even though this isn't really a shocker, but I was told by a source from one of the national media outlets that I've worked for that the job is going to Frazier once the Vikings are eliminated. The interviews that they conduct from here on out won't matter much, as they have already found their man in Frazier. The source already told me that a "handshake" deal is already in place.

Like I said, no breaking story here whatsoever...just what a trusted source told me last night. Most media outlets have Frazier as a favorite anyways, but like I said, I thought I'd share what they told me anyways.

[Dying_-2-_Live]

WONDERFUL :(
~ guess he will be better than Jauron

[patmoran2006]

If you're confident enough in who your source is, you should publish it and submit it to your NFL.com editors.

I know I would, if you're confident.

[BSU Drew]

Thanks! If we dont get Cowher i'd be happy with Frazier!

[BigZ]

As you all know, I've worked for Yahoo! Sports, ESPN Radio, Sirius NFL Radio, etc etc etc...this is the first time I have ever posted anything from a source. I just never felt comfortable about it until now.

Even though this isn't really a shocker, but I was told by a source from one of the national media outlets that I've worked for that the job is going to Frazier once the Vikings are eliminated. The interviews that they conduct from here on out won't matter much, as they have already found their man in Frazier. The source already told me that a "handshake" deal is already in place.

Like I said, no breaking story here whatsoever...just what a trusted source told me last night. Most media outlets have Frazier as a favorite anyways, but like I said, I thought I'd share what they told me anyways.

If this is true, we've finally managed to find someone who wants the job.

[Nighthawk]

Welcome to more mediocrity! Gotta love this joke of a franchise...

[T-Long]

If you're confident enough in who your source is, you should publish it and submit it to your NFL.com editors.

I know I would, if you're confident.

I already sent it in.

[patmoran2006]

If this is true, in my opinion this is a terrible hire.

He's too much like Jauron for my liking, and I don't like the fact we'd be settling for a guy, at this PROCESS of the search who was freegin rejected by both the Rams and Lions last year.

[YardRat]

I would say "a "handshake" deal is already in place" qualifies as breaking news much more than some of the other comments that were advertised as such.

[patmoran2006]

This team needs a straight up SMASHMOUTH coach who is going to knock some heads in the locker room.

Not another "Players Coach"

[Jeff1220]

I'm in the acceptance mode. I'm not happy about this, but it's obviously all they can get at this point. I'll just hope he surprises us all. That's really all we can do at this point.

[Nighthawk]

This is possibly the worst choice for a the next Bills HC that they could have made...just end our misery!

[patmoran2006]

I would say "a "handshake" deal is already in place" qualifies as breaking news much more than some of the other comments that were advertised as such.

If true, hell-- even if it makes it to getting reported, its the first true REAL Buffalo coaching news to date, which includes anythign I've done for sure.

I know Teddy, He's written for me and I know he's not one to lie to get attention.


Having said that, I hope you're wrong bro :(

[Tatonka]

wow.. thanks for ruining my night. :couch:

seriously though.. i need a saints jersey or something.. 20 years of this **** is just too much..

i wish it was that easy.

[elltrain22]

This team needs a straight up SMASHMOUTH coach who is going to knock some heads in the locker room.

Not another "Players Coach"

anyone who fits that description, already said no.

[DrGraves]

at least i won't have to waste money on tickets next season

[Michael82]

I'd rather have Perry Fewell! :puke:


This is the kind of hire that gets a drop of 20,000 season tickets. I'm sorry. I don't know who your source is, but I don't buy it. There's no way even Russ Brandon would be able to sell another boring, lame guy that coaches and acts like Jauron to the fans! No emotion. No fire. No intensity. And the same ****ty Cover 2. :ill:

[Dicknoze69]

Certainly not good news.

Let's hope he's Mike Tomlin Jr., but I severely doubt this is going to work out well.

Here's hoping he can assemble a top-notch staff, mesh philosophically with our front office, and most importantly, hold people accountable and motivate our players.

I'll be interested in seeing if he changes defense because I got the impression Nix had no interest in our soft cover 2. I know Minny plays a more aggressive version.

[hydro]

TOSharpie goes into a deep depression....

[Michael82]

Oh and not to bash your source, but the National Media is guessing left and right about the Bills coaching job. They don't seem to have a clue.

However, if your source is correct and this is who the Bills want.... Let's Go Vikings! I want to see them go to the Super Bowl, so maybe Ralph will get nervous and force the team to hire someone else instead.

[Philagape]

I was told by a source from one of the national media outlets

Your source is another member of the media? Didn't we just go through that?

[Michael82]

TOSharpie goes into a deep depression....
The whole Buffalo Bills fanbase goes into a deep depression! :ill:

[T-Long]

I'd rather have Perry Fewell! :puke:


This is the kind of hire that gets a drop of 20,000 season tickets. I'm sorry. I don't know who your source is, but I don't buy it. There's no way even Russ Brandon would be able to sell another boring, lame guy that coaches and acts like Jauron to the fans! No emotion. No fire. No intensity. And the same ****ty Cover 2. :ill:

Don't shoot the messenger. This is just what he told me that he heard from inner circles. I'm not saying that I am breaking this news or am the one calling 1000 different places for a scoop, this was told to me in a phone call that was placed to ME. Do with it what you wish.

[Ingtar33]

If this is true, in my opinion this is a terrible hire.

He's too much like Jauron for my liking, and I don't like the fact we'd be settling for a guy, at this PROCESS of the search who was freegin rejected by both the Rams and Lions last year.


well our exhaustive GM search was just a 1 or 2 interview search... lord we didn't even look outside the organisation.

I think we should take it as a moderate improvement that we not only went outside the organization, we actually interviewed more then one person; though technically it looks to me like we're just taking the first guy who said he'd be interested.

[Midwesternbillsfan]

I'm willing to give Frazier a chance (what choice do we have other than outright rooting for another team?). Some seem him as a "black Jauron," because he's a defensive coordinator who's ran the Tampa 2 in Minnesota and because he has a pretty seemingly relaxed and equanimous disposition. So does Tony Dungy- no one knows that you're describing Tony Dungy when you describe Leslie Frazier any more than you know that you're describing Dick Jauron when describing Frazier. And some absolutely discredit him from receiving any of the success of the Vikings' defense was of their front-four. But that last point really isn't any point- so you credit the players and never the defensive coordinator when the defense plays well, but merely blame the DC when the defense doesn't play well? Seems like a 'no win' analysis.

What I like about Frazier:

A) Albeit at tiny Trinity International, he does have HC'ing experience. At least at a collegiate level- albeit the NFL's an entirely different ballgame- he was a successful leader or men because the one-time incipient Trinity College was pretty successful in his nine years there.

B) He has worked w/many proven NFL head coaches and they may have made didactic impressions on him: among others, Frazier has worked w/Andy Reid in Philadelphia, Marvin Lewis in Cincinnati, and Dungy in Indianapolis, for example. And it's possible that Frazier has worked w/enough successful NFL personnel to assemble a better staff than most coordinator candidates. Former Chiefs' offensive coordinator Al Saunders supposedly is part of a packaged deal.

C) His defenses have been generally opportunistic. Obviously he has the necessary talent w/the Vikings now but he made a demonstrative difference w/the Eagles' and Colts' secondaries and his '04 Cincinnati Bengals forced 36 turnovers (that wasn't enough to save his job; but he probably still did more w/less in Cincinnati).

D) His Vikings' defense is quite impressive. I know, I know... the Williams' duo at DT and the madman Allen at RDE; mostly fair enough. But they've nevertheless been successful, and if you believe that any amount of defensive talent is tantamount to necessarily succeeding look at all the talent that Bill Sheridan wasted in New York this year w/the Giants. More than a few injuries, sure (Chris Canty; Antonio Pierce; Kenny Phillips; Aaron Ross), but look at how badly squandered a defense comprised of talent like Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, Matthias Kiwanuka, Fred Robbins, Rocky Bernard, Barry Coefield, Michael Boley, and Corey Webster still was? At least Frazier hasn't mismanaged Minnesota's talent.

[rcd333]

why would they even conduct any more interviews if they already have there man? Just for ****s and giggles?

[elltrain22]

I'll give the guy a chance, and ya never know, he might be a good coach, and might put together a nice staff. I just don't see how the Bills are gonna put fannies in the seats next year. This hire is gonna tick off at least 75% of Bills fans, IMO.

[jlruss90]

so Buddy Nix straight up lied about looking for experience, i would much rather have Billick than Frazier, weve done this before with coordinators...

[Dicknoze69]

so Buddy Nix straight up lied about looking for experience, i would much rather have Billick than Frazier, weve done this before with coordinators...

Frazier does have "experience", albeit at Trinity college. I don't think Nix ever specified "NFL head coach experience", although it was widely taken that way. I think Nix was more referring to experience as the head guy at a program.

[Nighthawk]

Oh and not to bash your source, but the National Media is guessing left and right about the Bills coaching job. They don't seem to have a clue.

However, if your source is correct and this is who the Bills want.... Let's Go Vikings! I want to see them go to the Super Bowl, so maybe Ralph will get nervous and force the team to hire someone else instead.

Mikey, think about it logically. Why are all the candidates not interested in the position? Well, for one, the organization sucks balls, but more likely is the fact that information is probabley out there that the Bills have found their man in Frazier and the rest of the interviews are just to show the fans they interviewed more then 2 people. This organization is approaching the #1 position for being the worst run and it's only around the corner.

[Philagape]

so Buddy Nix straight up lied about looking for experience, i would much rather have Billick than Frazier, weve done this before with coordinators...

They did try for Cowher

[Nighthawk]

Frazier does have "experience", albeit at Trinity college. I don't think Nix ever specified "NFL head coach experience", although it was widely taken that way. I think Nix was more referring to experience as the head guy at a program.

You know what? Nix is an idiot like the rest of the people in that organization.

[Nighthawk]

They did try for Cowher

Or so they say...

[BillsFanCupp38]

Not buying it. We are litterally the only NFL team looking for a headcoach right now. Why would we just interview one and say thats our man. The front office is going to take their time with this thing just like they have been saying the whole time.

[jlruss90]

lol i really hope he didnt mean that, for nix to say that about a small college compared to the nfl is just stupid. But i will say this hire could turn out good, but fans are going to be so skeptical....and we know we wont get huge free agents....so how is russ going to sell this to us?

I didnt really envision a Nix GM and Frazier HC type of offseason thats for sure.

[patmoran2006]

I don't like to question others, especially when I know how hard it is to deal with people when you report on something significant.

And I know Terry isn't just making things up.

But I'd be a little concerned about its validity as I don't see why the Bills would formally request interviews with Schotty and Grimm (that we know of) if this were true.

Then again, hey, maybe its why Brian suddenly "changed his mind" and why Grimm wasn't really interested all along.

[Nighthawk]

Not buying it. We are litterally the only NFL team looking for a headcoach right now. Why would we just interview one and say thats our man. The front office is going to take their time with this thing just like they have been saying the whole time.

You did see who our GM is...right?

[hydro]

You did see who our Owner is...right?

FYP

[Nighthawk]

FYP

True enough...

[Oaf]

I'm happy about this considering what we were NOT going to get and the rest of the crap out there (outside of Harbaugh). Billick is neither the leadership/CEO figure nor the offensive guy we need. Frazier is a leader through and through and we can only hope he's got his head on straight for in-game decisions.

Word was he was going bring some saavy teachers with him right?

[Nighthawk]

I'm happy about this considering what we were NOT going to get and the rest of the crap out there (outside of Harbaugh). Billick is neither the leadership/CEO figure nor the offensive guy we need. Frazier is a leader through and through and we can only hope he's got his head on straight for in-game decisions.

Word was he was going bring some saavy teachers with him right?

Hmmm, sounds like what was said about Dick Jauron...thanks for coming...NEXT!!!

[Saratoga Slim]

I think that the Bills really like Frazier. And I think perhaps he's set a high bar that they aren't sure another candidate will be able to beat.

That said, I just flat out don't believe that a decision has been made already--they wouldn't be conducting interviews just for appearances. I don't mean to disparage your report, T-Long. You're a good poster and I trust you. But I think maybe your source is over-interpreting whatever info they obtained.

Perhaps I'm wearing blinders, but it just doesn't make any sense to me that they'd be continuing to put out interview requests for multiple candidates, without at least some intention of hearing what those guys have to say.

[Nighthawk]

I think that the Bills really like Frazier. And I think perhaps he's set a high bar that they aren't sure another candidate will be able to beat.

That said, I just flat out don't believe that a decision has been made already--they wouldn't be conducting interviews just for appearances. I don't mean to disparage your report, T-Long. You're a good poster and I trust you. But I think maybe your source is over-interpreting whatever info they obtained.

Perhaps I'm wearing blinders, but it just doesn't make any sense to me that they'd be continuing to put out interview requests for multiple candidates, without at least some intention of hearing what those guys have to say.

Sure they would...they don't want ALL the fans pissed that they didn't interview more then one or two candidates and some fans will buy into it. This makes perfect sense why they would conduct more interviews when they already know who they'll hire. Sounds like typical Buffalo Bills to me...

[TigerJ]

Se la vie, or something like that.

[Kenny]

meh... definitely not my first choice, -but at least he wants to be here.

[Nighthawk]

meh... definitely not my first choice, -but at least he wants to be here.

I want to be the Bills HC....do you want me to get the job?

[T-Long]

I know people are tired of "sources say this sources say that" which I why I was hesitant to post this in the first place. But, a call was placed to me from someone at a national outlet that the "handshake/wink" deal is in place, and nothing will be official until the Vikings are eliminated.

Now, this is me talking. Things definitely could change, but this guy is a trusted source and has connection in NFL circles. So take this info, like all the other reported stuff, with a grain of salt. Believe what you want to believe. I'm just the messenger here that shared what info was given to me last night.

[Philagape]

Why isn't the national guy reporting it himself? Or is he?

[Nighthawk]

I know people are tired of "sources say this sources say that" which I why I was hesitant to post this in the first place. But, a call was placed to me from someone at a national outlet that the "handshake/wink" deal is in place, and nothing will be official until the Vikings are eliminated.

Now, this is me talking. Things definitely could change, but this guy is a trusted source and has connection in NFL circles. So take this info, like all the other reported stuff, with a grain of salt. Believe what you want to believe. I'm just the messenger here that shared what info was given to me last night.

No biggie T - I would hate this information if it came from my mother...it has nothing to do with you.

[T-Long]

Why isn't the national guy reporting it himself? Or is he?
He's not a national REPORTER. That's why.

[New Ro's Greatest]

Nobody has a clue what is going on at OBD. GO BILLS:jig:

[Nighthawk]

Why isn't the national guy reporting it himself? Or is he?

Good point.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Well hopefully the role will be reversed for Grimm and he's the own who blows the socks off the Bills. The bar is set high and if Grimm goes above it then this is a great thing.

[Typ0]

I was going to say this but now I don't have to. thanks.



I think that the Bills really like Frazier. And I think perhaps he's set a high bar that they aren't sure another candidate will be able to beat.

That said, I just flat out don't believe that a decision has been made already--they wouldn't be conducting interviews just for appearances. I don't mean to disparage your report, T-Long. You're a good poster and I trust you. But I think maybe your source is over-interpreting whatever info they obtained.

Perhaps I'm wearing blinders, but it just doesn't make any sense to me that they'd be continuing to put out interview requests for multiple candidates, without at least some intention of hearing what those guys have to say.

[Saratoga Slim]

Sure they would...they don't want ALL the fans pissed that they didn't interview more then one or two candidates and some fans will buy into it. This makes perfect sense why they would conduct more interviews when they already know who they'll hire. Sounds like typical Buffalo Bills to me...

If the front office wanted to make this HC hire about pleasing the fans.....they wouldn't be hiring Leslie Frazier.

Like I said, they may think Frazier's the guy to beat, but I just flat out don't believe that you bring in a highly respected guy like Russ Grimm without thinking that there's some chance he'll have some very compelling things to say too.

If this report is correct, I hope that the Vikes lose this weekend and the Bills just go ahead and announce Frazier as the new HC so he can assemble his staff before anyone else gets scooped up. I don't need them to conduct interviews for appearances on my behalf--in the unlikely event that that's what they're doing, I'd find it pretty damn condescending to us fans.

[Novacane]

One interview and he's hired? Let's not even talk to anyone else. I hope this is not true because if it is they are an even bigger joke than I thought

[Typ0]

I really don't think OBD lives in a soap opera fairy tale world like people on these boards do. They do have their heads spinning though because Wilson just doesn't bring consistent messages and missions to the organization.

[Nighthawk]

If the front office wanted to make this HC hire about pleasing the fans.....they wouldn't be hiring Leslie Frazier.

Like I said, they may think Frazier's the guy to beat, but I just flat out don't believe that you bring in a highly respected guy like Russ Grimm without thinking that there's some chance he'll have some very compelling things to say too.

If this report is correct, I hope that the Vikes lose this weekend and the Bills just go ahead and announce Frazier as the new HC so he can assemble his staff before anyone else gets scooped up. I don't need them to conduct interviews for appearances on my behalf--in the unlikely event that that's what they're doing, I'd find it pretty damn condescending to us fans.

The problem is that you think this organization is run like a professional NFL franchise...it isn't, not even close. So, don't try to think that they are doing things the right way...they probably aren't.

[Typ0]

One interview and he's hired? Let's not even talk to anyone else. I hope this is not true because if it is they are an even bigger joke than I thought


I don't know if they could be a bigger joke than you thought. I don't believe it either though because they are still interviewing and frazier isn't even on the table until his team is out. Someone got their info crossed or something.

[Billz_fan]

Well it's official. Im headed to the nearest high bridge at first light. Im so bummed right now it's not funny.

This is just another in the long line of saddest days to be a Bills fan.

Devastated is all I can say.

[bob86]

Reason and reality have never been controlling factors in Bills decision making, as any longtime fan will attest. And you don't have to look back further than last year when Ralph let the fans know how important he thinks their feelings are when he kept DJ on over almost universal fan protest. In Ralph's mind, it’s his team and if the fans don't like it, it’s too bad. Having said that, I can't for the life of me think how Russ is going to market this team in 2010. Maybe they plan on having a riot and revolt day at the Ralph. Come to think of it, after last year when the season ticket sales actually went up after the DJ re-hire, Ralph and Russ must reason that no matter who they hire and how badly they abuse the fans, the people of Western New York will still buy tickets. In their mind, why brother worrying about what their customers, the fans, want; they will still show-up anyway. You know what, for 50 years they have been at least right about that.

[Coach Sal]

I don't know what to think about this.

I trust you, Terry. I'm sure the source is a solid one, as far as being connected. And I know you would never take a chance like this without really trusting it yourself. You're very professional.

I just don't trust the info he gave you all that much (although it's obviously completely plausible).

Also, if I were Leslie Frazier, and there really IS a handshake agreement, and then I see the Bills still doing interviews and contacting people.......I'd be pretty pissed and skeptical and very untrusting of the organization I'm about to work for. The Bills would have to realize how bad that would look to Frazier by them, wouldn't they?

[HopefulBillsFan]

***** ** * * ******* **** ** * !#@%#@ ^$!

[Demon]

Wow, i'm sick to my stomach after reading this. T-Long seems like a really cool and knowledgeable guy, who in my opinion is one of my favorite posters on this forum, so i doubt he'd be throwing his name if he didn't believe what he was told.

I absolutley hate his hiring. I wouldn't go and say it's worse then Perry Fewell because i hated him with a passion, even in the Miami guy where we smoked them, i thought he was garbage. It depends on who he brings in as O.C. and if he brings in Palmer, then wow.... nothing will change.

I've said it many times, but if Frazier is the coach, my season tickets go away, which, i guess i become richer because i spend a lot on tickets plus tailgates but, man, those were fun times. But, sometimes the buck must stop here. I can't afford to go and support this team and be ****ted on each time.

They were just talking Viks vs. Cowboys on espn earlier today Viks have the 27th best pass defense in the NFL. Mind you, he's a secondary coach first. His run defense is great, but, having Allen, both Williams' and Winfield who's the best tackling CB in the league probably has A LOT to do with that.

Worst news i've heard. I will support this team. I will watch them on Sundays and will post on BZ, but, i feel like a dead fan.

Nix as GM. Frazier as HC. Bums as DC and OC. And people think we will bring in free agents to fix this team? I read on one forum, someone posted (ik its only a fan) his dream FA list, and it included Richard Seymour. C'mon man.

We ain't getting NOBODY in here.

[T-Long]

I don't know what to think about this.

I trust you, Terry. I'm sure the source is a solid one, as far as being connected. And I know you would never take a chance like this without really trusting it yourself. You're very professional.

I just don't trust the info he gave you all that much (although it's obviously completely plausible).

Also, if I were Leslie Frazier, and there really IS a handshake agreement, and then I see the Bills still doing interviews and contacting people.......I'd be pretty pissed and skeptical and very untrusting of the organization I'm about to work for. The Bills would have to realize how bad that would look to Frazier by them, wouldn't they?

Your skepticism is warranted. This is why I was hesitant to post it. But he was adamant that this indeed did happen and he stands by it. He is not a reporter of any kind, but he is a very well known person in one of these outlets. He isn't one to "break" stories. He didn't call and tell me so that I could "break" the story, he just called to tell me this is exactly what he heard and wanted to share it with me. I asked him if I could post it, and he said I could as long as I don't share his name or his affiliation. (which obviously I wouldn't anyways)

I trust the guy and I know he wouldn't just call me out of nowhere to feed me bad info. If I'm wrong, then so be it. But I don't think I am.

[patmoran2006]

I don't know what to think about this.

I trust you, Terry. I'm sure the source is a solid one, as far as being connected. And I know you would never take a chance like this without really trusting it yourself. You're very professional.

I just don't trust the info he gave you all that much (although it's obviously completely plausible).

Also, if I were Leslie Frazier, and there really IS a handshake agreement, and then I see the Bills still doing interviews and contacting people.......I'd be pretty pissed and skeptical and very untrusting of the organization I'm about to work for. The Bills would have to realize how bad that would look to Frazier by them, wouldn't they?

Agree with you. I feel the same way; however your last paragraph, remember this is the Bills organization you're talking about.

[McBFLO]

This team needs a straight up SMASHMOUTH coach who is going to knock some heads in the locker room.

Not another "Players Coach"
Russ Grimm.

[Novacane]

Did he say when this agreement was supposedly made? They interviewed him Thursday and he did an interview with the Seahawks on Sat. Why would he do an interview if he had the Bills job? The rules say we could not have contact with him after last Sat don't they?

[Philagape]

So the source's own outlet must not feel it's solid enough to report

[Novacane]

I don't question you T-long but I just can not believe even the Bills are this incompotent. Even McDonalds makes you come back for a second interview but we're supposed to believe the Bills are going to give an unproven assistant an NFL HC job off 1 interview. They CAN NOT be that stupid.................................................................can they? Please....someone tell me they can not be that stupid.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I did not read all the posts to see if this was brought up but if fraizer was on a hand shake deal why did he interview for seatle?

[T-Long]

Did he say when this agreement was supposedly made? They interviewed him Thursday and he did an interview with the Seahawks on Sat. Why would he do an interview if he had the Bills job? The rules say we could not have contact with him after last Sat don't they?
My understanding would be is that since it wasn't an official job offer (can't get one yet anyways) that he took the interview. But if you remember, he was very hesitant on whether or not to take it.

The source only told me that it was a "handshake" deal, nothing signed because that is not allowed anyways.

[Demon]

All i want to know is who his assistants will be and if he will keep the cover2. Buddy Nix already told us the cover2 wouldn't work in Buffalo. WTF!!!

The Bills needed an offensive mind. They needed a guy to come in who was good with working with QBs so we can mold a QB because not sure if anyone has noticed, but our QBs are garbage and have been for years.

Will Frazier bring the people to do so?

With Frazier, i bet he brings in Tavaris Jackson.

[DBrown77]

OK, being Devils advocate, who would you guys want as a head coach? Everyone would hate if Frazier got it. Who are our choices?

Frazier?
Grimm?
Fewell?

NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO INTERVIEW! WE HAVE NO CHOICE!


Every big game coach has turned us down. How can you guys blame the Bills when they went after Gruden, Cowher, and Shannahan? We have to settle because NO ONE wants to be here. Whether or not that is Ralphs fault for being a crappy owner over the years is a moot point now.

Funny that people are saying they will drop their season tickets yet they're on this message board 20 hours a day. Don't fool yourself , your not going to cancel your tickets and you will still be here 20 hours a day like the rest of us.

That being said, i am as frustrated as everyone that we cannot get a big name coach. It sucks that Ralph's past may affect the Bills future. There's nothing they can do now. At least they tried. The front office made their bed now we all have to sleep in it.

GO BILLS and whoever the new coach is!

[patmoran2006]

Leslie Frazier may turn out to be the best coach in NFL history, but if he's our guy, its NOT going to go over well with this fanbase, I guarentee it.

The fans will no longer take our marketing department's word that this year will be different.

And if true. What a freegin joke this Nix hire is already. We needed a shakeup and ended up with a 70 year old first timer instead of even considering outsiders, and a first time head coach despite having NO, ZERO competition from around the league.

And the 36- year old son of Nix's close friend doesnt even want to interview for the job.

Unreal.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

With Frazier, i bet he brings in Tavaris Jackson.

AWESOME! that dude is AWESOME! He single handedly kept the vikings out of the play offs for years!
We could conceivably keep our play off streak going for years more and maybe have a shot at breaking THAT record!
How awesome would that be!
Man I am PUMPED!!!!

[BuffaloBlitz83]

We don't have many options right now.

Grimm>Frazier>Rivera

Rivera's defense have been brutal 25th and 16th overall unit's in nfl

[Novacane]

Funny that people are saying they will drop their season tickets yet they're on this message board 20 hours a day. Don't fool yourself , your not going to cancel your tickets and you will still be here 20 hours a day like the rest of us.

!



Oh yes many will drop their season ticks. We all have our breaking points. I dropped mine after 10 seasons when they hired Jauron. I still love the Bills. I just got to the point where I was not going to pay to watch the garbage the Bills give us. Many more will come to that conclusion after this fiasco.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

In the immortal and epic words of Paladian Warrior:

Ralph have drove me nut!

[k-oneputt]

Jauron light. He's the same guy, with the same ****ty defensive system, passive coaching, players coach, no offensive background, no head coaching experience { sorry I don'y count that little league team he coached} it will go like this,

6 wins, 7 wins, 5 wins and fired. Three years tops. Ralph will probably be dead and this team will be gone because nobody will be leftinthe stands by then.

F-this bs.

[Demon]

Oh yes many will drop their season ticks. We all have our breaking points. I dropped mine after 10 seasons when they hired Jauron. I still love the Bills. I just got to the point where I was not going to pay to watch the garbage the Bills give us. Many more will come to that conclusion after this fiasco.

I can't prove it, but i will not be buying seasons with Frazier as HC. I will watch on tv, i will support from afar and i will post on BZ. If quitting on my seats makes me a bad fan, then i guess i'm a bad fan. Honestly, i don't even care anymore. I'm a bad fan of a BS organization.

[BILLSROCK1212]

well the best thing we get out of this is that Frazier has A LOT of connections around the league and will hire a GREAT staff!! I'd expect Fred Pagac to become the DC and someone outside the Vikings organization like an Al Saunders to become the OC

[BillsWin]

We are so ****ed...

[capitolneal]

Well CRAP..... you know I have been a fan since 1969 and this baffles me, How do we not get a coach that has HEAD COACH with experience..... This is just f,in disgusting, I now hope that these rports are wrong and we get a good coach as a Bills Fan I dserve better, I ate enough dung burgers for the last ten yrs. But as a Die hard fan It seems like the FO is serving me seconds again

[Ingtar33]

well the best thing we get out of this is that Frazier has A LOT of connections around the league and will hire a GREAT staff!! I'd expect Fred Pagac to become the DC and someone outside the Vikings organization like an Al Saunders to become the OC


and the turd polishing starts.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Frazier defenses

07 20th
08 6th
09 6th

[Demon]

Jauron light. He's the same guy, with the same ****ty defensive system, passive coaching, players coach, no offensive background, no head coaching experience { sorry I don'y count that little league team he coached} it will go like this,

6 wins, 7 wins, 5 wins and fired. Three years tops. Ralph will probably be dead and this team will be gone because nobody will be leftinthe stands by then.

F-this bs.

Couldn't have said it better. I honestly don't know how they are going to sell this to the fans. Nix said cover2 won't work, and clearly, they will keep playing it. Ralph said he wanted a coach who can go deep and make it "exciting"... highly doubt Frazier will bring in anyone with a good resume to get anyone excited. Nix said he was looking for a guy with experience. Frazier has none.

[Demon]

Frazier defenses

07 20th
08 6th
09 6th

How about pass defense?

You realize, no matter where he goes, he will never have the same talent on the front 7 as he's had in Minnesota right? People say he likes to blitz? NO **** he does... he has Jared Allen!!!

[Demon]

well the best thing we get out of this is that Frazier has A LOT of connections around the league and will hire a GREAT staff!! I'd expect Fred Pagac to become the DC and someone outside the Vikings organization like an Al Saunders to become the OC

Just wondering, but could you tell me what makes Al Saunders good?

[k-oneputt]

I have five season's that Ralph and Russ can stick up their ass if Frazier is the hire. Enough is enough.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

How about pass defense?

You realize, no matter where he goes, he will never have the same talent on the front 7 as he's had in Minnesota right? People say he likes to blitz? NO **** he does... he has Jared Allen!!!

He did turn Antoine Winfield's career around. The guy was a pro bowler last year and was playing like one this year too before he missed 6 games. He never played close to that level in Buffalo.

[k-oneputt]

He did turn Antoine Winfield's career around. The guy was a pro bowler last year and was playing like one this year too before he missed 6 games. He never played close to that level in Buffalo.


What games were you watching ? Winfield was very good in Buffalo. Ralph was to cheap and stupid to keep him.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

What games were you watching ? Winfield was very good in Buffalo. Ralph was to cheap and stupid to keep him.

He was good, but never like 2008 Winfield. You're on drugs if you believe so.

[tampabay25690]

This is possibly the worst choice for a the next Bills HC that they could have made...just end our misery!

WHO ELSE ARE WE GOING TO HIRE..........

NO ONE WANTS TO BE IN BUFFALO but him.............

Lets welcome him to Buffalo instead........

[BILLSROCK1212]

Just wondering, but could you tell me what makes Al Saunders good?
this one is arguable, the job he did in KC was outstanding, in St. Louis and Washington...more average, maybe he's not the best candidate out there, but he's better than what we've had

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Just wondering, but could you tell me what makes Al Saunders good?

This guy is light years better than anything we've had this decade. As a whole, his offense was truly remarkable at KC. Finished I believe 3 times in the top 5 and the rest in the top 10. His only bad season was last year with the rams but that was a train wreck no one could make work. Even in Washington where he was constantly critized the guy finish both 20th and 18th in points but 13th and 15th in yards.

[Novacane]

WHO ELSE ARE WE GOING TO HIRE..........

NO ONE WANTS TO BE IN BUFFALO but him.............

Lets welcome him to Buffalo instead........


no

[Demon]

this one is arguable, the job he did in KC was outstanding, in St. Louis and Washington...more average, maybe he's not the best candidate out there, but he's better than what we've had

He did do great in Kansas City. I just think he got lucky, due to the players he was surrounded with. Our players are garbage. He's never developed a QB... failed with Jason Campbell.

[bumblin]

.... and hes ugly

i said it

[Demon]

This guy is light years better than anything we've had this decade. As a whole, his offense was truly remarkable at KC. Finished I believe 3 times in the top 5 and the rest in the top 10. His only bad season was last year with the rams but that was a train wreck no one could make work. Even in Washington where he was constantly critized the guy finish both 20th and 18th in points but 13th and 15th in yards.

He was garbage in DC. He failed developing a young QB.

In KC, he had Trent Green, Priest Holmes and Tony Richardson at RB.... Tony Gonzalez (leagues best TE back then).... and Donte Hall, who was deadly on bombs, like Desean Jackson is now. He later on got Larry Johnson to join the RB ranks.

At WR he also had Jonnie Morton and Eddie Kennison, and not to say these 2 were great, but.... both were former 1st round picks. They had talent.

Not to mention they had a beast of a O-Line.

Compare this to what we have. Lee Evans. And. ?? Still waiting....

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Jauron light. He's the same guy, with the same ****ty defensive system, passive coaching, players coach, no offensive background, no head coaching experience { sorry I don'y count that little league team he coached} it will go like this,

6 wins, 7 wins, 5 wins and fired. Three years tops. Ralph will probably be dead and this team will be gone because nobody will be leftinthe stands by then.

F-this bs.

He's not a passive coach, he will get in players faces and holds them accountable. Unlike Jauron, he's a great motivator, where as Jauron would say these are grown men and they motivate themselves. Bash the move all you want but the guy holds the traits of a Dungy, Caldwell, Childress or Mike Smith more than a Jauron.

Les can also do something Jauron cant and that's get good experienced assistants. I'm telling you if Frazier comes here, the cover 2 will not follow. He's ran the cover 2 for 3 years but has been a part of the 46 defense and the aggressive 4-3 of the eagles. P.S. we aint moving.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

i cant wait to see the 46 defense....

[BILLSROCK1212]

He did do great in Kansas City. I just think he got lucky, due to the players he was surrounded with. Our players are garbage. He's never developed a QB... failed with Jason Campbell.
actually campbell regressed after he left

[k-oneputt]

Don't get me started on Dungy. So Frazier has those traits......I hope Manning wants to join him here in Buffalo.
This team needs a headcoach with headcoach NFL experience. I'm sick of waiting for these 1st timers we get learning as they go.

Go get Billick then. I can't beleive there is not one coach with experience out there. I would even take Fassel or Mariucci at this point.

[baalworship]

I'm willing to give Frazier a chance (what choice do we have other than outright rooting for another team?). Some seem him as a "black Jauron," because he's a defensive coordinator who's ran the Tampa 2 in Minnesota and because he has a pretty seemingly relaxed and equanimous disposition. So does Tony Dungy- no one knows that you're describing Tony Dungy when you describe Leslie Frazier any more than you know that you're describing Dick Jauron when describing Frazier. And some absolutely discredit him from receiving any of the success of the Vikings' defense was of their front-four. But that last point really isn't any point- so you credit the players and never the defensive coordinator when the defense plays well, but merely blame the DC when the defense doesn't play well? Seems like a 'no win' analysis.

What I like about Frazier:

A) Albeit at tiny Trinity International, he does have HC'ing experience. At least at a collegiate level- albeit the NFL's an entirely different ballgame- he was a successful leader or men because the one-time incipient Trinity College was pretty successful in his nine years there.

Ok, but Dick Jauron had head coaching experience.

B) He has worked w/many proven NFL head coaches and they may have made didactic impressions on him: among others, Frazier has worked w/Andy Reid in Philadelphia, Marvin Lewis in Cincinnati, and Dungy in Indianapolis, for example. And it's possible that Frazier has worked w/enough successful NFL personnel to assemble a better staff than most coordinator candidates. Former Chiefs' offensive coordinator Al Saunders supposedly is part of a packaged deal.

C) His defenses have been generally opportunistic. Obviously he has the necessary talent w/the Vikings now but he made a demonstrative difference w/the Eagles' and Colts' secondaries and his '04 Cincinnati Bengals forced 36 turnovers (that wasn't enough to save his job; but he probably still did more w/less in Cincinnati).

Dick Jauron and Perry Fewell's defense this year was opportunistic.

D) His Vikings' defense is quite impressive. I know, I know... the Williams' duo at DT and the madman Allen at RDE; mostly fair enough. But they've nevertheless been successful, and if you believe that any amount of defensive talent is tantamount to necessarily succeeding look at all the talent that Bill Sheridan wasted in New York this year w/the Giants. More than a few injuries, sure (Chris Canty; Antonio Pierce; Kenny Phillips; Aaron Ross), but look at how badly squandered a defense comprised of talent like Justin Tuck, Osi Umenyiora, Matthias Kiwanuka, Fred Robbins, Rocky Bernard, Barry Coefield, Michael Boley, and Corey Webster still was? At least Frazier hasn't mismanaged Minnesota's talent.

Dick Jauron had an impressive defense in Chicago and was Coach of The Year in the NFL. The only difference is a small fraction of the fan base supported him because Levy said he was good. If Frazier gets hired Bills are dealing with all out revolt of the fan base.



This team does not need a Bible camp. It needs a boot camp and a shakeup. This is more of the same Cover 2, conservative, play not to lose, bored to death and turn off the TV Bills.

[Demon]

actually campbell regressed after he left

Campbell had 2700 passing yards, 12TD, 11 INT and a 60% passing % in 13 games in Saunders last year and Campbell's first full year as starter.

The following year, he had 3245 passing yards, 13TD, 6 INT and a 62% passing % in 16 games. Not exactly regressing.

[bills4ver]

If Leslie Frasier is hired, I won't spend another penny on this team, until we make the playoffs some how..... I think fans are just getting sick of the same recycled crap year after year. Frasier is a Jauron CLONE - why don't we just re-hire Dick Jauron he is still getting paid?

Its been almost 10 years, if they hire this guy god help us all. We can't get in a quality proven coach or top assistant? This guy is average at best.

[plundar]

Thanks! If we dont get Cowher i'd be happy with Frazier!

Why? I am just wondering. I am not sold on the guy yet and would like to know why you guys think he is a good choice. I personally like Grimm.

[djjimkelly]

this hire ****ing sucks if this is true

[bills4ver]

there is a guy on the main bills board that says his "source" has Marty Schottenheimer almost taking the job he is about to say yes...

Who knows anything...

[k-oneputt]

there is a guy on the main bills board that says his "source" has Marty Schottenheimer almost taking the job he is about to say yes...

Who knows anything...

Lets hope so.

[jimbohastle51]

sad day for bills football and it will show in ticket sales for sure!

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Coaches who are in the playoffs and like Frazier are great motivators but don't spit in your face.

Dallas Wade Phillips check
Minnesota Brad Childres Check
New Orleans Sean Peyton I'd consider him in your face
Arizona Ken Wisenhunt Same as Peyton
NYJ Ryan A buffoon
San Diego Norv Turner Check
Baltimore Harbough In your face
Indy Check

Philly Andy Reid sorta in your face
Green Bay Mike McCarthy check
New England Billy boy check
Cincinati Marvin Lewis check

As you can see not one style guarentee's success. Les is not my first choice but hes a damn good one. He's not Jauron just for the fact Jauron is the 2nd worst coach ever. I will hold off judgement till I see what coaches he brings, the roster he builds and the training camp he runs.

[bigbub2352]

another cheap hire by a sad organization if true

[paladin warrior]

Who going to win?

Viking Vs Cowboys- I think Viking going to win. Frazier is still keep going playoff

AZ Vs Saints. I think AZ going to lose . Russ Grimm will may going to interview Buffalo Bills before Frazier. If the Viking still in the playoff.

[paladin warrior]

so Buddy Nix straight up lied about looking for experience, i would much rather have Billick than Frazier, weve done this before with coordinators... Me too I wish Bufflo Bills hire Billick :nervous:

[TerrellOwensSharpie8]

this isn't going to happen....

[imbondz]

just think it's only 3 years we have to wait for a new coach if Frazier sucks. we've waited this long, what's another 3.

[imbondz]

this is what happens when you suck for so long!

[soapman]

This is going to be the best Black History Month ever...

[TerrellOwensSharpie8]

As you all know, I've worked for Yahoo! Sports, ESPN Radio, Sirius NFL Radio, etc etc etc...this is the first time I have ever posted anything from a source. I just never felt comfortable about it until now.

Even though this isn't really a shocker, but I was told by a source from one of the national media outlets that I've worked for that the job is going to Frazier once the Vikings are eliminated. The interviews that they conduct from here on out won't matter much, as they have already found their man in Frazier. The source already told me that a "handshake" deal is already in place.

Like I said, no breaking story here whatsoever...just what a trusted source told me last night. Most media outlets have Frazier as a favorite anyways, but like I said, I thought I'd share what they told me anyways.


thanks, but seeing as the source likely isn't close to the Bills, I don't think the source really knows. If Cowher doesn't end up here though I think that Frazier basically has to be the backup plan

[SeatownBillsFan21]

Well i guess if this is true I can TRY to root for the Seahawks :(

[YardRat]

Kevin Gilbride was garbage when he was here. He's since moved on and acquired a ring. Just sayin'.

[Novacane]

just think it's only 3 years we have to wait for a new coach if Frazier sucks. we've waited this long, what's another 3.


:rofl: Exactly what I was thinking yesterday. In 3 years I'll have something Bills realated to look forward to again. :lmao: Of course by that time they won't even be able to get other teams waterboys to interview.

[Jan Reimers]

I know I'm in the extreme minority, but I'll be very happy with Frazier. He's a successful coordinator who has worked for a number of very good coaches.

Without repeating every argument against Frazier (or for Cowher) I firmly believe:

1) Cowher is not a lock to be successfull here, or the ONLY coach that could be successful.

2) Many, many coordinators have gone on to become great HCs. Just because we recently missed on Williams and Mularkey, it doesn't mean we're doomed to fail on this one.

3) Frazier is a low key guy who is an avowed Christian. His religion makes no difference, and his quiet demeanor does not make him Dick Jauron. If he can teach, motivate and coach on Sunday afternoon, who cares?

[Canadian'eh!]

Umm... Minny's D kind of sucks a lot fo the time. The scheme is not great, and they have better players than us.

Another stoic bible banging underachiever. awesome.

[Novacane]

I know I'm in the extreme minority, but I'll be very happy with Frazier. He's a successful coordinator who has worked for a number of very good coaches.

Without repeating every argument against Frazier (or for Cowher) I firmly believe:

1) Cowher is not a lock to be successfull here, or the ONLY coach that could be successful.

2) Many, many coordinators have gone on to become great HCs. Just because we recently missed on Williams and Mularkey, it doesn't mean we're doomed to fail on this one.

3) Frazier is a low key guy who is an avowed Christian. His religion makes no difference, and his quiet demeanor does not make him Dick Jauron. If he can teach, motivate and coach on Sunday afternoon, who cares?



He may turn out to be good but it's the Bills so it's doubtful. For arguements sake lets say he is just as good a coach as Cowher is. Cowher would still have a much better chance at being successful because of what he's accomplished. Cowher can demand more say in player decisions. Cowher can attract players who may otherwise not give Buffalo a second look. Cowher can bring instant respect to the organization. My fear is even if Frazier is a good coach chances are good he won't succeed anyway because he won't get the tools he needs because of who is is. An unproven coordinater.

[jaycorp51]

I just can't believe this. It may end up happening, but I'm not believing it as of right now. A handshake agreement when they've only interviewed 2 people, both of whom are defensive coaches? I think they are intrigued by Grimm and it will hinge on how his interview goes. If he bombs, then I can see Frazier getting the nod....but if Grimm has a solid interview like Frazier supposedly had, I think he's the hire....if he wants the job.

[DraftBoy]

Good news if true!

Let's get him in here in time for the combine and such so he can get to work. There is plenty to be done so far.

[psubills62]

Oh and not to bash your source, but the National Media is guessing left and right about the Bills coaching job. They don't seem to have a clue.

However, if your source is correct and this is who the Bills want.... Let's Go Vikings! I want to see them go to the Super Bowl, so maybe Ralph will get nervous and force the team to hire someone else instead.

Wouldn't that just make Ralph even more sure of the hire then?

[psubills62]

Good news if true!

Let's get him in here in time for the combine and such so he can get to work. There is plenty to be done so far.

I don't understand why people won't give him a chance. I'd like to see what he can do.

The attitude that a coach has (player's coach vs. hard-nosed) generally shouldn't have an effect on his coaching and the talent that he can bring in. I think a huge part of why Jauron failed was also his lack of player development. How many drafted players were brought in and had a lot of promise but didn't seem to grow into their potential at all?

Frazier certainly isn't my top choice, but I'm willing to give him a chance.

[Novacane]

I don't understand why people won't give him a chance. I'd like to see what he can do.

.



Because if reports are to be believed he is the only 1 interviewed!!!! If they interviewed a handful of people and decided he was the best I could live with it. I would expect failure but I would give him a chance.

[imbondz]

I'm not condoning the Leslie Frazier hire. I want pretty much everyone else that has NFL head coaching experience. Or has won a national championship in college.

Buuuuut, he does have winning Super Bowl experience, from what i've read, has helped every single defense he's been apart of (tho i'm sure that can be debated).

Although we need our offense to be raised from the dead, can he do that? Does he have that kind of faith? If he does, then let's hire him.

[imbondz]

He may turn out to be good but it's the Bills so it's doubtful. For arguements sake lets say he is just as good a coach as Cowher is. Cowher would still have a much better chance at being successful because of what he's accomplished. Cowher can demand more say in player decisions. Cowher can attract players who may otherwise not give Buffalo a second look. Cowher can bring instant respect to the organization. My fear is even if Frazier is a good coach chances are good he won't succeed anyway because he won't get the tools he needs because of who is is. An unproven coordinater.

that is it right there. That is why a Cowher would make a huge difference.

[jaycorp51]

Because if reports are to be believed he is the only 1 interviewed!!!! If they interviewed a handful of people and decided he was the best I could live with it. I would expect failure but I would give him a chance.

This is exactly why I'm having a really hard time believing they have a handshake agreement in place. Why would they not want to hear what Grimm or (up until yesterday) B. Schottenheimer had to say? It's not making much sense.

[Mahdi]

Typical Bills hiring.... Take a guy who has achieved mediocre results and prop him up as the next big thing.

Only difference this time is that this mediocre hiring has 4 Pro Bowlers on his defense and is STILL achieving mediocre results. At least Jauron reached mediocrity with mediocre talent.

I cannot BILLIEVE that after all the garbage this franchise has been through they resorted to hiring an IN-HOUSE GM and a HC WITH THE SAME DAMN PHILOSOPHY IN EVERY WAY AS JAURON AND FEWELL.

THIS IS BS.

Now we get to watch Chris Kelsay, Ryan Denney, Keith Ellison, Kawika Mitchell, Aaron Schobel and all the rest of the jokers for another season.

[Mahdi]

Good news if true!

Let's get him in here in time for the combine and such so he can get to work. There is plenty to be done so far.
Yeah Good news... he fits right into the group of misfits we already have at OBD.

[SABURZFAN]

As you all know, I've worked for Yahoo! Sports, ESPN Radio, Sirius NFL Radio, etc etc etc...this is the first time I have ever posted anything from a source. I just never felt comfortable about it until now.

Even though this isn't really a shocker, but I was told by a source from one of the national media outlets that I've worked for that the job is going to Frazier once the Vikings are eliminated. The interviews that they conduct from here on out won't matter much, as they have already found their man in Frazier. The source already told me that a "handshake" deal is already in place.

Like I said, no breaking story here whatsoever...just what a trusted source told me last night. Most media outlets have Frazier as a favorite anyways, but like I said, I thought I'd share what they told me anyways.


leave it to The Old Fart to take the CHEAP way out. :hang:

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Because if reports are to be believed he is the only 1 interviewed!!!! If they interviewed a handful of people and decided he was the best I could live with it. I would expect failure but I would give him a chance.

Well were interviewing Grimm and NO ONE ELSE wants to interview. Seriously, what are they suppose to do. I've said it before and I'd say it again Les Frazier/Al Saunders>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Billick/Tice.

The only way I'd take Billick is if he had a great OC, seeing he fired his friend in Fassell that wont happen.

[Griff]

Oh and not to bash your source, but the National Media is guessing left and right about the Bills coaching job. They don't seem to have a clue.

However, if your source is correct and this is who the Bills want.... Let's Go Vikings! I want to see them go to the Super Bowl, so maybe Ralph will get nervous and force the team to hire someone else instead.

right because being more successful will make Ralph nervous.

[Mahdi]

I don't understand why people won't give him a chance. I'd like to see what he can do.

The attitude that a coach has (player's coach vs. hard-nosed) generally shouldn't have an effect on his coaching and the talent that he can bring in. I think a huge part of why Jauron failed was also his lack of player development. How many drafted players were brought in and had a lot of promise but didn't seem to grow into their potential at all?

Frazier certainly isn't my top choice, but I'm willing to give him a chance.
I dont understand why yourself and DB are so willing to have him here... What exactly has he done to earn this chance you are giving him???

He is a secondary coach whose secondary has been among the worst in the NFL since he has been there. Where is the WOW factor there???

He has 4 PBers on his defense and widely considered the best DL in football yet he is 23rd in points given up per game. What a Joke.

[Beebe's Kid]

I dont understand why yourself and DB are so willing to have him here... What exactly has he done to earn this chance you are giving him???

He is a secondary coach whose secondary has been among the worst in the NFL since he has been there. Where is the WOW factor there???

He has 4 PBers on his defense and widely considered the best DL in football yet he is 23rd in points given up per game. What a Joke.

They are 10th in points surrendered per game.

They are 2nd in points scored per game.

That is pretty good. Any time your offense scores more points, it is a fact that you are going to give up more points. Just because it means the opponent is going to get more chances.

I am not sticking up for Frazier, or advocating his hiring, just pointing out that his defense is not as bad as it is being portrayed.

[Beebe's Kid]

I dont understand why yourself and DB are so willing to have him here... What exactly has he done to earn this chance you are giving him???

He is a secondary coach whose secondary has been among the worst in the NFL since he has been there. Where is the WOW factor there???

He has 4 PBers on his defense and widely considered the best DL in football yet he is 23rd in points given up per game. What a Joke.

Also, their rush defense is fantastic - 2nd in the league. Their pass defense is middle of the pack, and they are near the bottom in interceptions. They did force 20 fumbles though.

[DraftBoy]

I dont understand why yourself and DB are so willing to have him here... What exactly has he done to earn this chance you are giving him???

He is a secondary coach whose secondary has been among the worst in the NFL since he has been there. Where is the WOW factor there???

He has 4 PBers on his defense and widely considered the best DL in football yet he is 23rd in points given up per game. What a Joke.


Because we can look beyond MIN, and see that he created a bad CIN defense into a turnover machine, got canned (as the scape goat for Lewis) and the D got worse. Worked in Indy under Tony Dungy and took a bunch of no name CB's and made them work into a Super Bowl run, including the development of guys named Bob Sanders, Mike Doss, Nick Harper, and Antonie Bethea.
He was specifically brought in by Dungy to help the Colts young corps of Defensive Backs. During his time in Indy the Colts passing defense improved from 15th in 2005 to 2nd in 2006.

So to say he has done nothing is first off wrong, and second off shows that people refuse to do any kind of actual research about the guy.

Was he at the top of my list? No, but he has been successful at every stop at improving upon what he had before. Hating the guy because he is a players coach, runs a Cover 2, and/or is a devout christian is about as illogical as it gets. We know player coaches can win, we know the Cover 2 can win, you may not like it. But since both are proven to be winners, you can't say they make him doomed to fail either.

[k-oneputt]

Cover-2 is great when you have a two touchdown lead and all you have to do is rush the qb. Those small fast guys work real will then. If you can't score {Bills} and other teams start pounding on you running and passing by the 2nd half the Cover-2 and your small defense are in trouble.

[Mahdi]

Because we can look beyond MIN, and see that he created a bad CIN defense into a turnover machine, got canned (as the scape goat for Lewis) and the D got worse. Worked in Indy under Tony Dungy and took a bunch of no name CB's and made them work into a Super Bowl run, including the development of guys named Bob Sanders, Mike Doss, Nick Harper, and Antonie Bethea.

So to say he has done nothing is first off wrong, and second off shows that people refuse to do any kind of actual research about the guy.

Was he at the top of my list? No, but he has been successful at every stop at improving upon what he had before. Hating the guy because he is a players coach, runs a Cover 2, and/or is a devout christian is about as illogical as it gets. We know player coaches can win, we know the Cover 2 can win, you may not like it. But since both are proven to be winners, you can't say they make him doomed to fail either.
Cincinnati was 19th in defense in 2003 and 28th in 2004. Indianapolis' defense was run by Meeks NOT Frazier. Meeks went on to Carolina this year and turned a pass defense that was 16th last year to 4th this year with the exact same personnel. Indi's defense has Meeks' stamp on it not Frazier's.

And now the Minnesota pass D ranks 19th in the league with Frazier calling the plays. And the one AND ONLY reason they have a sick run D in Minni is PAT WILLIAMS. Period.

So to sum up, both times he was the DC his defenses were bottom half of the league against the pass (which is his area of trade) and the one successful stop he had in Indi the DC was not even him....


Yeah that is one heck of a resume.

[DraftBoy]

Cincinnati was 19th in defense in 2003 and 28th in 2004. Indianapolis' defense was run by Meeks NOT Frazier. Meeks went on to Carolina this year and turned a pass defense that was 16th last year to 4th this year with the exact same personnel. Indi's defense has Meeks' stamp on it not Frazier's.

And now the Minnesota pass D ranks 19th in the league with Frazier calling the plays.

So to sum up, both times he was the DC his defenses were bottom half of the league against the pass (which is his area of trade) and the one successful stop he had in Indi the DC was not even him....


Yeah that is one heck of a resume.

I love your use of only situational stats. Sometimes using Total D, sometime using pass D. Its great way to do the opposite to prove my point. By the way where are your numbers coming from?

Cincy was 28th in Total D in 03, and 19th in 04, showing improvement not getting worse. Pass D went from 28th to 26th, and Run D went from 24th to 13th. A year later after Frazier was gone, Cincy's D went back to 28th overall, 26th v. Run, and 20th v. Pass. So Frazier gets fired (as Lewis's scapegoat) and the D gets worse. Hmmm....

Dungy said himself that Frazier was brought in to work with Indy's secondary, not the entire D, I never once even mentioned Indy's entire D. But I did mention the players he helped develop, which you don't even acknowledge. Also you convenently don't mention how MIN has the #2 overall Run D in the leaugue, stop giving out only half the information.

[Mahdi]

I love your use of only situational stats. Sometimes using Total D, sometime using pass D. Its great way to do the opposite to prove my point. By the way where are your numbers coming from?

Cincy was 28th in Total D in 03, and 19th in 04, showing improvement not getting worse. Pass D went from 28th to 26th, and Run D went from 24th to 13th. A year later after Frazier was gone, Cincy's D went back to 28th overall, 26th v. Run, and 20th v. Pass. So Frazier gets fired (as Lewis's scapegoat) and the D gets worse. Hmmm....

Dungy said himself that Frazier was brought in to work with Indy's secondary, not the entire D, I never once even mentioned Indy's entire D. But I did mention the players he helped develop, which you don't even acknowledge. Also you convenently don't mention how MIN has the #2 overall Run D in the leaugue, stop giving out only half the information.
Ok first of all, you flipped the stats you provided.... Cin was 26 against the run and 13th against the pass which actually improves your argument.

But please don't act as if Frazier has anything to do at all with Minnesota's run defense. Pretty sure Pat and Kevin have everything to do with that. They were #1 against the run in 2006, the year BEFORE Frazier got there.

Bottom line to me is that with the amount of talent Frazier has over there he has underachieved. Give that talent to Bill B. or any of the other top DCs and they would have a top 3 defensive unit.

[DraftBoy]

Ok first of all, you flipped the stats you provided.... Cin was 26 against the run and 13th against the pass which actually improves your argument.

But please don't act as if Frazier has anything to do at all with Minnesota's run defense. Pretty sure Pat and Kevin have everything to do with that. They were #1 against the run in 2006, the year BEFORE Frazier got there.

Bottom line to me is that with the amount of talent Frazier has over there he has underachieved. Give that talent to Bill B. or any of the other top DCs and they would have a top 3 defensive unit.

You do nothing to support your argument here. And why do you still refuse to give Frazier any credit for the work he did in Cincy and Indy? Specifically in player develoment of Pro Bowlers?

I mean come on this is borderline ridiculous.

[Bill Cody]

This just in: Frazier is forming his staff already and he's hiring Lilith for his OC (nothing signed but it's a handshake deal):brace:

[Mahdi]

You do nothing to support your argument here. And why do you still refuse to give Frazier any credit for the work he did in Cincy and Indy? Specifically in player develoment of Pro Bowlers?

I mean come on this is borderline ridiculous.
Ok,

I have done a little more research, and I don't think you have used the best arguments to your advantage.

I think the best part of Frazier's resume is that he was the Eagles DB coach from 1999-2003. He was brought in at the same time as Andy Reid was and worked under Jim Johnson.

To me this puts him in the Jim Johnson school of defense and THAT is a nice thing to have on your resume. John Harbaugh has the same credentials.

Being in a blitz oriented scheme is much more appealing to me and I will agree with you that he is not a bad option.

My list is now... Garrett, Grimm, Frazier.

[Mudflap1]

I dont understand why yourself and DB are so willing to have him here... What exactly has he done to earn this chance you are giving him???

He is a secondary coach whose secondary has been among the worst in the NFL since he has been there. Where is the WOW factor there???

He has 4 PBers on his defense and widely considered the best DL in football yet he is 23rd in points given up per game. What a Joke.

Look, Frazier is not at the top of my list. However, I think any coordinator from one of the top teams in the NFL can be considered a qualified candidate, whether we like it or not.

[DraftBoy]

Ok,

I have done a little more research, and I don't think you have used the best arguments to your advantage.

I think the best part of Frazier's resume is that he was the Eagles DB coach from 1999-2003. He was brought in at the same time as Andy Reid was and worked under Jim Johnson.

To me this puts him in the Jim Johnson school of defense and THAT is a nice thing to have on your resume. John Harbaugh has the same credentials.

Being in a blitz oriented scheme is much more appealing to me and I will agree with you that he is not a bad option.

My list is now... Garrett, Grimm, Frazier.

I was waiting for more argument back to pull that one out of my pocket. I can't give you my best stuff first, I have to save it for the right moment. Frazier is not just a Cover 2 sit back DC. He will blitz and he will attack the QB. As the Bengals DC he took them from 24th to 17th in sacks. He really helped players like Justin Smith and John Thorton as the Bengals DC. He's not an all blitzer like Jimmy was, but he will get after it.

[Nighthawk]

Frazier is a terrible choice and he brings nothing new to the table for the Bills...that is why he is a bad choice. I can get behind Grimm as he brings an attitude and has with people I believe are much more influencial then anybody Frazier has worked with. However, my pick would be Garrett...he is exactly what this team needs. He has proven he can run an offensive unit and run it well. He is also responsible for the growth of Romo from a PS player to the player he is today. Both of those points are huge to me. That being said, I doubt he would come here, but the Bills SHOULD have this guy on top of their list.

[superbills]

This just in: Frazier is forming his staff already and he's hiring Lilith for his OC (nothing signed but it's a handshake deal):brace:

Oy....:1:

[WeAreArthurMoates]

As I stated in another thread, Frazier loves to blitz, the Vikes blitzed 45% of the time which was 4th in the league and 2 spots higher than GB. Frazier D is also big and physical. Grimm is my first choice but for people to say he is a bad candidate and a Jauron clone shows there lack of research.

[Nighthawk]

As I stated in another thread, Frazier loves to blitz, the Vikes blitzed 45% of the time which was 4th in the league and 2 spots higher than GB. Frazier D is also big and physical. Grimm is my first choice but for people to say he is a bad candidate and a Jauron clone shows there lack of research.

I know all about Frazier's defense and what he is all about...his defense is stacked with talent...or does that not matter?

[justasportsfan]

He has 4 PBers on his defense and widely considered the best DL in football yet he is 23rd in points given up per game. What a Joke.
coaches sometimes have something to do with players making probowl?

[Nighthawk]

coaches sometimes have something to do with players making probowl?

Not when they were pro-bowlers before he was there or before they came there.

[Mahdi]

coaches sometimes have something to do with players making probowl?
Yes but not in this instance. Williams Bros, Allen and Winfield were already established.

Anyways, I have already made concessions about Frazier. Read my last post.

[sillenb61]

Am i the only one that hopes the cowboys win 62-0 this weekend!

[sillenb61]

As I stated in another thread, Frazier loves to blitz, the Vikes blitzed 45% of the time which was 4th in the league and 2 spots higher than GB. Frazier D is also big and physical. Grimm is my first choice but for people to say he is a bad candidate and a Jauron clone shows there lack of research.

His defenses in indy and cicni were not big and physical, te only reason this year he has a defense like that is because the pro bowl players were there before him that are big and physical!

[patmoran2006]

Am i the only one that hopes the cowboys win 62-0 this weekend!

No

[WeAreArthurMoates]

His defenses in indy and cicni were not big and physical, te only reason this year he has a defense like that is because the pro bowl players were there before him that are big and physical!

Funny cause he never coached Indy and you honestly believe that we didn't learn anything about having those big players. And browse the roster before you make wrong statements. That front 7, like Minny was plenty big.http://slam.canoe.ca/StatsFBP/BC-FBP-LGNS-CINCINNATIROS-R.html

[sillenb61]

Funny cause he never coached Indy and you honestly believe that we didn't learn anything about having those big players. And browse the roster before you make wrong statements. That front 7, like Minny was plenty big.http://slam.canoe.ca/StatsFBP/BC-FBP-LGNS-CINCINNATIROS-R.html

First of all he did coach in indy as DB coach, second i didnt say minnesota wasnt big i said they were what i am saying is that team was there before he got there, and based on the 2 previous teams he was with indy where he was DB coach and cinci where was DC they had small defenses so i think that is what he likes and i hope he proves me wrong.

[sillenb61]

Funny cause he never coached Indy and you honestly believe that we didn't learn anything about having those big players. And browse the roster before you make wrong statements. That front 7, like Minny was plenty big.http://slam.canoe.ca/StatsFBP/BC-FBP-LGNS-CINCINNATIROS-R.html

Sorry thought you meant minnesota front 7, Starting linebackers and DT on that cinci team are not much bigger then buffalos now if at all.

[Michael82]

Am i the only one that hopes the cowboys win 62-0 this weekend!
I'd rather see the Vikings win 58-56

[WeAreArthurMoates]

Sorry thought you meant minnesota front 7, Starting linebackers and DT on that cinci team are not much bigger then buffalos now if at all.

He's always had big d ends and that's are biggest problems in terms of stopping the run.

Avg weight for the front 7 between the two teams always went to Cincy and that was 6 years ago when players were that much smaller in general.

Buffalo Cincy
LB 230# 236#
DT 299# 306
DE 254# 274

In his defense you will never see a safety playing linebacker and linebacker play d end.

[justasportsfan]

I'd rather see the Vikings win 58-56


Garrett vs. Frazier.

Offensive coach vs. defensive coach for bills HC job.