I'm Down with a Leslie Frazier hire

[Thurmal]

Look at the last few SB-winning coaches:

Tomlin - former defensive coordinator
Coughlin - former defensive coordinator
Dungy - former defensive coordinator
Cowher - former defensive coordinator
Belichick - former defensive coordinator
Gruden - former offensive coordinator

These guys won the last seven Super Bowls. They were all coordinators who eventually succeeded as head coaches. All but one was a defensive coordinator.

Look at the final eight team in the playoffs THIS YEAR:

Minnesota - Childress
Dallas - Phillips
Arizona - Whisenhunt
New Orleans - Payton
San Diego - Turner
New York - Ryan
Indy - Caldwell
Baltimore - Harbaugh

Six of the eight are former coordinators on their FIRST head-coaching job, and the other two (Turner and Phillips) were castoffs that were bemoaned by their respective fanbases when signed.


If you are/were dying for Billick, Cowher, or Shanahan ask yourself one question. How did Jimmy Johnson, Vince Lombardi, and Joe Gibbs do their second time around coaching?

[Michael82]

You don't understand...it's not the first time head coach that is bugging everybody about Frazier. It's the fact that he's emotionless and sounds like another players coach, like Dick Jauron. He's also another Cover 2 guy! :ill: Plus go on Vikings messageboards, they all want to get rid of him.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

yeah i like a frazier hire, at least he wants to be here and his defense is in the top 10.... lets bring him to buffalo and have a great draft and start this thing on a good note...

[Jaybird]

he is not my first choice for coach. I would prefer a hard nose guy, but if he is hired I am not gonna give up on the team before the season begins.

[Michael82]

he is not my first choice for coach. I would prefer a hard nose guy, but if he is hired I am not gonna give up on the team before the season begins.
Agreed!

[Thurmal]

You don't understand...it's not the first time head coach that is bugging everybody about Frazier. It's the fact that he's emotionless and sounds like another players coach, like Dick Jauron. He's also another Cover 2 guy! :ill: Plus go on Vikings messageboards, they all want to get rid of him.

Is the Cover 2 all that bad? The Bills LEAD THE LEAGUE in turnovers and our defense keeps us in most games despite the fact that our offense scores roughly twelve points a game.

Look at Frazier's bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Frazier

He is a winner; everywhere he has gone, the team has improved.

[OpIv37]

yeah, and for every one of those guys, there are two Mike Mularkey/Gregg Williams types.

[OpIv37]

Is the Cover 2 all that bad? The Bills LEAD THE LEAGUE in turnovers and our defense keeps us in most games despite the fact that our offense scores roughly twelve points a game.

Look at Frazier's bio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Frazier

He is a winner; everywhere he has gone, the team has improved.

the cover 2 is AWFUL unless you can get a couple of freak athletes like Freeney and Sanders. It's a small D that wears down easily, as Buffalo's last 3 years clearly show.

[Slim]

I wouldn't be thrilled with Frazier hiring. But it's not because he's "emotionless" or a first time coach. I don't necessarily want a Czar on the Bill's sideline again like Greg Williams either.

Singletary on Frazier: “Leslie can fool you,” Singletary said. “He seems to be a quiet guy, really calm and reserved. But inside of him is a rage. Inside of him is a mad man. He doesn’t let it come out too often, but it’s in there. He does a great job covering it up.”

[Slim]

He doesn't necessarily run a "Cover 2" either. He runs a 4-3 but since he can get pressure with the front four in Minnesota they run a lot of Cover 2.

[Ingtar33]

Look at the last few SB-winning coaches:

Tomlin - former defensive coordinator
Coughlin - former defensive coordinator
Dungy - former defensive coordinator
Cowher - former defensive coordinator
Belichick - former defensive coordinator
Gruden - former offensive coordinator

These guys won the last seven Super Bowls. They were all coordinators who eventually succeeded as head coaches. All but one was a defensive coordinator.

Look at the final eight team in the playoffs THIS YEAR:

Minnesota - Childress
Dallas - Phillips
Arizona - Whisenhunt
New Orleans - Payton
San Diego - Turner
New York - Ryan
Indy - Caldwell
Baltimore - Harbaugh

Six of the eight are former coordinators on their FIRST head-coaching job, and the other two (Turner and Phillips) were castoffs that were bemoaned by their respective fanbases when signed.


If you are/were dying for Billick, Cowher, or Shanahan ask yourself one question. How did Jimmy Johnson, Vince Lombardi, and Joe Gibbs do their second time around coaching?

your list is horrible. you're mixing apples and oranges all over this post.


Coughlin - former HEAD COACH (RIT/Boston College/Jacksonville)
Dungy - former HEAD COACH (Tampa)
Belichick - former HEAD COACH (Cleveland/NYJ -all be it for a few days)
Phillips - former HEAD COACH (Buffalo/Denver)
Turner - Former HEAD COACH (Washington/Oakland)
Shanahan - Former HEAD COACH (Oakland - prior to denver)
Johnson - Former HEAD COACH (U.Miami -prior to Dallas)
Payton - Former QUARTERBACK COACH (not a coordinator -prior to NO)
Harbaugh - former SPECIAL TEAMS COACH (not a coordinator)

[Thurmal]

the cover 2 is AWFUL unless you can get a couple of freak athletes like Freeney and Sanders. It's a small D that wears down easily, as Buffalo's last 3 years clearly show.

If we put two decent guys outside of Posluszny at LB and had another decent pass-rusher (holding out hope for Maybin, ugghhh), our D would be lights out. They performed pretty damn well considering that they're on the field 3/4 of the game.

[Thurmal]

your list is horrible. you're mixing apples and oranges all over this post.


Coughlin - former HEAD COACH (Jacksonville)
Dungy - former HEAD COACH (Tampa)
Belichick - former HEAD COACH (Cleveland/NYJ -all be it for a few days)
Phillips - former HEAD COACH (Buffalo/Denver)
Turner - Former HEAD COACH (Washington/Oakland)
Shanahan - Former HEAD COACH (Oakland - prior to denver)
Johnson - Former HEAD COACH (U.Miami -prior to Dallas)
Payton - Former QUARTERBACK COACH (not a coordinator -prior to NO)
Harbaugh - former SPECIAL TEAMS COACH (not a coordinator)

Coughlin - FIRED
Dungy - FIRED
Belichick - FIRED
Phillips - FIRED
Turner - FIRED
Shanahan - FIRED

Johnson - SUCKED his second time around (college doesn't count, ask Nick Saban and Steve Spurrier), which proves my original point

Payton/Harbaugh - further proves my point that every great coach got an opportunity somewhere

YOU DON'T NEED A WORLD-BEATER FORMER COACH TO WIN!!!

[Novacane]

We'll be having this same arguement in 2-3 years when Frazier is fired.

[BillsWin]

Frazier is not good.

Grimm would be a first time head coach too. I's rather have him. This guy wins wherever he goes.

[jamze132]

Frazier didn't build that defense in Minny. He inherited it. Nothing has shown me that he knows how to build a team, much less a defense at the NFL level. I am very weary of another 1st time HC in Buffalo.

Of course if no one wants the job, I'll do it for half of what the offensive quality control guy makes.

[Slim]

Frazier is not good.

Grimm would be a first time head coach too. I's rather have him. This guy wins wherever he goes.

Frazier-
Eagles 1999-2002
1999- 5-11
2000- 11-5
2001- 11-5
2002- 12-4
Bengals- 2003-2004
2003- 8-8
2004- 8-8

Colts-2005-2006
2005- 14-2
2006- 12-4
Vikings- 2007- present
2007- 8-8
2008- 10-6
2009- 12-4

One superbowl and six division titles since 1999.

[Slim]

Frazier didn't build that defense in Minny. He inherited it. Nothing has shown me that he knows how to build a team, much less a defense at the NFL level. I am very weary of another 1st time HC in Buffalo.

Of course if no one wants the job, I'll do it for half of what the offensive quality control guy makes.

This is my beef with him. He has ALL the talent in the world in Minnesota. So this doesn't impress me very much at all. However when he was Cincinnati DC he helped that defense A LOT. And when he was INDY's defensive backs coach, statistically he helped that secondary a lot.

[Syderick]

He was able to make the defenses he was on better. So if Leslie Frazier is expected to be hired, might as well put up with it and give him a shot.

[TigerJ]

It's interesting to compare the Bills defense with Minnesota since they were essentially the same scheme this past year. Buffalo gave up fewer passing yards and had a lot more interceptions. Minnesota gave up a lot more big plays. Of course one reason Buffalo was so impressive in their pass defense stats (except for sacks, was their woeful run defense. Why pass when you're gaining big chunks of yardage on every play. As far as a rund defens comparison, Minnesota was second in the league, Buffalo 29th. Minnesota gave up 3.9 yards per run (not great, but not bad) while Buffalo gave up 4.7 yards per carry (awful). Buffalo's defensive strength is their secondary, at least when everyone is healthy. Assuming Byrd is healthy next season, he should be able to strike fear in the hearts of opposing QBs. Minnesota's strength was their front seven. If Frazier is the Bills head coach next season, the team really needs to work at upgrading the front seven.

I think bringing in Al Saunders would be a positive for the team. The criticism of Saunders is his big playbook. Hopefully, he can have a sense for how much the young Bills players can absorb. On the positive side, Saunders is not afraid to put the ball in the air, but knows the value of a running game too. It would be interesting to know what's going on in St. Louis where Saunders was let go after the 2008 season. St. Louis was bad offensively in 2008, but got worse in 2009 when Saunders was gone. Injury? lack of talent? Bulger has hit the wall?

[jamze132]

Frazier might turn out to be the next Belichick, I don't really care right now. He's not going to turn into that his first time out, especially with all the mental midgets running around OBD looking for their heads.

By the way, I found all of their heads up their own asses.

[plundar]

I'll tell you the difference. Those other coaches were on teams that supported them with players and coaches. They didn't just try to find bargin basment talent to try and coach up.

I don't want LF to coach this team. They need discipline. They have lacked that for years.

[Prov401]

Frazier is not good.

Grimm would be a first time head coach too. I's rather have him. This guy wins wherever he goes.

This is why I really hope Ron Rivera gets an interview. The guys been in the playoffs every year this decade.

[Typ0]

I think they leaked they were offering up all this money to get a guy just for damage control. Now they are going to go on and hire someone who will take little. They hired some lackey who will work for less as GM too. How you can be down with that I have no idea it's just the same process all over again.

[Jan Reimers]

I don't want LF to coach this team. They need discipline. They have lacked that for years.
You don't have to be a tough guy, or a yeller and screamer, or a tyrant to have a disciplined team. A quiet, sincere and RESPECTED leader will often engender, rather than impose, discipline.

[DesertFox24]

Who gives a **** what vikes fans want. Hell eagles fans want to get ride of McNabb and Reid.....

I could care less about Frazier's personality, it is the defensive scheme he runs. He I want a defense that will attack, and play more press coverage so we are not getting beat on short slants.

Someone posted an article that showed the teams that blitzed the most this year, the bears were 2 and the vikes were 4th in the NFL in blitz plays called.

Also I am not worried about club frazier like I was with club dick. When Mike Dikta and Mike Singletary say this guy has rage inside of him and is not an easy coach I will take that.

Lastly this is the NFL not college, that in your face rah rah **** does not work on grown men that make more money than you. What works is a head coach that is respectfully but gets in your face when the time is right, but yells to make a point.

I played college basketball and we had a yelling coach. This guy yelled and screamed at anything and everything. You know what happened I quickly saw that everyone else was tuning the guy out so I did the same thing, we had talented teams but never reached our potential because we did not give a crap about our coach. Hell we were mad he got extended. The bills tuned gregg williams out, that is one of the big reasons he got fired.

Granted I see everyones point, training camp needs to be tougher, and we need a better strength and conditioning coach to avoid injuries every year.

[OpIv37]

He doesn't necessarily run a "Cover 2" either. He runs a 4-3 but since he can get pressure with the front four in Minnesota they run a lot of Cover 2.
Huh? The cover 2 only works if you can get pressure with the front 4. If it's a 4-3 and he mixes in blitzes to get pressure, that's closer to a Jerry Gray 46 than a cover 2.

[Mahdi]

Look at the last few SB-winning coaches:

Tomlin - former defensive coordinator
Coughlin - former defensive coordinator
Dungy - former defensive coordinator
Cowher - former defensive coordinator
Belichick - former defensive coordinator
Gruden - former offensive coordinator

These guys won the last seven Super Bowls. They were all coordinators who eventually succeeded as head coaches. All but one was a defensive coordinator.

Look at the final eight team in the playoffs THIS YEAR:

Minnesota - Childress
Dallas - Phillips
Arizona - Whisenhunt
New Orleans - Payton
San Diego - Turner
New York - Ryan
Indy - Caldwell
Baltimore - Harbaugh

Six of the eight are former coordinators on their FIRST head-coaching job, and the other two (Turner and Phillips) were castoffs that were bemoaned by their respective fanbases when signed.


If you are/were dying for Billick, Cowher, or Shanahan ask yourself one question. How did Jimmy Johnson, Vince Lombardi, and Joe Gibbs do their second time around coaching?
You dont have to even make a list. Every HC in the NFL was a coordinator at some point.

When it comes to Frazier I have not been that impressed with his defense in Minnesota but he has had success developing secondaries.

Many of us on the board see Frazier as a COVER 2 disciple but that is not really accurate.

Frazier worked under Jim Johnson for 4 years for his first DC gig in Philly. He blitzes A LOT and he does not have a preference for smaller linemen that the Cover 2 requires.

Frazier is not a Tampa 2 guy, he runs a 4-3 with different concepts and a lot of blitzing.

[HAMMER]

First, none of you know spit about Frazier, stop acting like you do. Second, there is nothing that says he will be our coach other than more unsubstantiated rumors.

[better days]

You dont have to even make a list. Every HC in the NFL was a coordinator at some point.

When it comes to Frazier I have not been that impressed with his defense in Minnesota but he has had success developing secondaries.

Many of us on the board see Frazier as a COVER 2 disciple but that is not really accurate.

Frazier worked under Jim Johnson for 4 years for his first DC gig in Philly. He blitzes A LOT and he does not have a preference for smaller linemen that the Cover 2 requires.

Frazier is not a Tampa 2 guy, he runs a 4-3 with different concepts and a lot of blitzing.

It is a misconception to say the Tampa 2 requires smaller linemen. Warren Sapp & Booger McFarland are not small, but they are FAST, which is what the Tampa 2 does require. The problem is there are few big guys like Warren & Booger that are also fast like them.

[Typ0]

can we get a monster like warren sapp please?

[better days]

can we get a monster like warren sapp please?

Warren Sapp is a 1st ballot HOF, very doubtful we will ever get a Sapp, but I would be happy with a big Booger at this point.