My thoughts on 4-3 vs 3-4

[ChanGailey]

We better go 3-4. Let's face it-at least on the front 7 we need about 50% turnover, or higher, either way.

Realities: Schobel is old. Kelsay is lousy. Stroud is old. Williams is solid but not great.

So what reason do we have to stay with a 4-3? Schobel is the only guy good enough to be considered a "specialist" with the 4-3.

We have 20+ million dollars invested into Aaron Maybin. And no matter what some people here will say, he will not ever succeed in a 4-3. He's too small. Find me one defensive end in a 4-3 his size who has had success. Nobody.

There is always the group that think he'll magically add 40lbs and not lose a large percentage of speed. And your delusional.

Stroud, Williams and Johnson could all play the DE position in a 3-4 and do fine. In fact, I think they may even be stouter against the run that way. If we stay 4-3, we will NEED another DE or TWO because we have no talent at the position. God forbid Schobel retires.

By switching, Schobel can't hurt us. If he retires, great. If he comes back, trade him for a 3rd or 4th rounder and take a flier on an athletic LB or DT with the pick.

The biggest, longest term, most crucial investment is Maybin. We have a strong secondary that doesn't really need to be addressed very much at all. The amount of new players needed is essentially the same in a 3-4 or a 4-3, as our front 7 was horrid the last few years.

Switching to 3-4, IMO, is the only option. Yeah, we'll need a NT. But in a 4-3 we'll need 2 DE's and a minimum of one LB. Another DT would be needed as well, IMO.

[psubills62]

In my opinion, if we want to have any sort of success in 2010, it would benefit us to move towards a heavier 4-3 (similar to the Giants/Titans) this season. Then we would be much closer in personnel towards switching to a 3-4 the following year. The only problem with that is in hiring a DC...not many guys are willing to work with a 4-3 one year and 3-4 the next.

That's my opinion because I think that moving to a 3-4 requires too much roster overhaul to be able to do it in one offseason. Especially in an uncapped year when the FA pool is much smaller than in years past.

[Mahdi]

In my opinion, if we want to have any sort of success in 2010, it would benefit us to move towards a heavier 4-3 (similar to the Giants/Titans) this season. Then we would be much closer in personnel towards switching to a 3-4 the following year. The only problem with that is in hiring a DC...not many guys are willing to work with a 4-3 one year and 3-4 the next.

That's my opinion because I think that moving to a 3-4 requires too much roster overhaul to be able to do it in one offseason. Especially in an uncapped year when the FA pool is much smaller than in years past.
This roster is closer to performing well as a 3-4 than it is a 4-3.

[psubills62]

This roster is closer to performing well as a 3-4 than it is a 4-3.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. It's mediocre as a 4-3 defense. Just because some players have the appropriate build to play in the 3-4 doesn't mean it would be a successful transition.

I personally believe that LB is the weak point in transitioning to a 3-4. The years of collecting 220 lb linebackers has taken its toll on our roster, imo.

[Ed]

It seems pretty clear to me that we need both DL and LB help regardless of what formation we go with. So if we're going to make a switch, why wouldn't we do it now?

The best defenses the Bills have ever had were out of a 3-4. The rest of our division also uses a 3-4. Considering how bad our offense has been against the 3-4, wouldn't it be a benefit to them too to be able to practice against it?

[Mahdi]

I wouldn't necessarily say that. It's mediocre as a 4-3 defense. Just because some players have the appropriate build to play in the 3-4 doesn't mean it would be a successful transition.

I personally believe that LB is the weak point in transitioning to a 3-4. The years of collecting 220 lb linebackers has taken its toll on our roster, imo.
Our LB is weak anyways and if Denver can do it with their collection of players I think we can too and I think we are even better set up to do it than they were.

We have a true NT on the roster already and a couple of guys that can easily slot in at DE.

Maybin is not effective as a DE in a 4-3 right now so moving him to OLB would allow us to actually use him.

If we stay in a 4-3 we need 2 DEs and another DT as well as 2 more OLBs.

[Prov401]

I wouldn't necessarily say that. It's mediocre as a 4-3 defense. Just because some players have the appropriate build to play in the 3-4 doesn't mean it would be a successful transition.

I personally believe that LB is the weak point in transitioning to a 3-4. The years of collecting 220 lb linebackers has taken its toll on our roster, imo.

Good post.

I think we are closer to being a better team in the 4-3 with our current roster. Let's be clear. I want the Bills to run a 3-4. But, as stated in the quote above, we are weak at the LB position. I don't care who likes him, Mitchell is a bum. He is the exact equivalent to the Eddie Robinson signing back in 2002, except Robinson was a good linebacker at one point in his career. Poz is good, Maybin is a project, and I'm going to assume Schobel has respect for himself, and doesn't want to stick around through the 4th rebuilding process of his career. So that leaves us with 1.5 (Maybin being a project) sure solid LB's entering the season.

I like how its assumed that Stroud/Williams would be good at DE. They've never played the position, and Stroud is on his last legs, in my opinion. I think we would have to find 3 new starters for our D-Line including NT, and both DE's. We are furhter away from a 3-4 defense than we are a 4-3 without question.

[DesertFox24]

We better go 3-4. Let's face it-at least on the front 7 we need about 50% turnover, or higher, either way.

Realities: Schobel is old. Kelsay is lousy. Stroud is old. Williams is solid but not great.

So what reason do we have to stay with a 4-3? Schobel is the only guy good enough to be considered a "specialist" with the 4-3.

We have 20+ million dollars invested into Aaron Maybin. And no matter what some people here will say, he will not ever succeed in a 4-3. He's too small. Find me one defensive end in a 4-3 his size who has had success. Nobody.

There is always the group that think he'll magically add 40lbs and not lose a large percentage of speed. And your delusional.

Stroud, Williams and Johnson could all play the DE position in a 3-4 and do fine. In fact, I think they may even be stouter against the run that way. If we stay 4-3, we will NEED another DE or TWO because we have no talent at the position. God forbid Schobel retires.

By switching, Schobel can't hurt us. If he retires, great. If he comes back, trade him for a 3rd or 4th rounder and take a flier on an athletic LB or DT with the pick.

The biggest, longest term, most crucial investment is Maybin. We have a strong secondary that doesn't really need to be addressed very much at all. The amount of new players needed is essentially the same in a 3-4 or a 4-3, as our front 7 was horrid the last few years.

Switching to 3-4, IMO, is the only option. Yeah, we'll need a NT. But in a 4-3 we'll need 2 DE's and a minimum of one LB. Another DT would be needed as well, IMO.

I guess Jason Taylor does not count.....

[Mahdi]

I guess Jason Taylor does not count.....
Jason Taylor is 255 pounds and has a variety of pass rush moves.

Maybin is 230-235 (and I don't care what he is listed at he is not 250) and very raw.

I'm not saying he can't add weight and refine his skills but he is not there yet. Not even close.

[Thief]

I guess Jason Taylor does not count.....Why would he? He weights more then 225 pounds.