Why is it so hard to believe?

[elltrain22]

Forgive me, b/c I'm an idiot. I gather that the one big thing that stands in the way of this franchise staying put in Buffalo is the erection of a new stadium. Why is this such a hard thing to imagine? The Sabres got a new arena years ago, and the city of Buffalo is and will always be a football town. I just don't see why this wouldn't happen.

Like I said, I'm an idiot. Can someone explain to me why this will or won't happen. I don't care if you speculate, I just want to someone to tell me why a great city like Buffalo, wouldn't do all it could to stabilize this franchise.

Thanks in advance.

[hydro]

Not enough big businesses in the region to fill up Club Suites which is the main reason why you would build a new stadium.

[YardRat]

The team isn't going to build one itself, and with the state of the economy in NY all hell would break loose if the state/local gov't ponied up money for a new stadium while cutting education funds and generally crying poor.

[ArcticWildMan]

Because Ralph has done nothing to reassure the tax payers that it wouldn't be a waste of their money. Every time you turn around there is another rumor that the Bills are moving. Ralph has said nothing that would make people think that the Bills will be in Buffalo when he dies.

I don't blame the taxpayers. The taxes in N.Y. are crazy enough as it is, why should they pony up another billion without some guarantee that the team will be around 5 years from now?

[OpIv37]

Forgive me, b/c I'm an idiot. I gather that the one big thing that stands in the way of this franchise staying put in Buffalo is the erection of a new stadium. Why is this such a hard thing to imagine? The Sabres got a new arena years ago, and the city of Buffalo is and will always be a football town. I just don't see why this wouldn't happen.

Like I said, I'm an idiot. Can someone explain to me why this will or won't happen. I don't care if you speculate, I just want to someone to tell me why a great city like Buffalo, wouldn't do all it could to stabilize this franchise.

Thanks in advance.

Like Hydro said, no big businesses to buy the luxury boxes (or not enough, anyway)
Ralph's unwillingness to take on stadium debt
A broke county govt and even more broke state govt that would have difficulty contributing
Lack of suitable locations (this is the city that's been arguing about the location of a Bass Pro for 5 years- you think they could find a spot for a new stadium?)

Those are the major reasons.

But there are issues in Buffalo that a new stadium doesn't solve. Lack of luxury box sales, low ticket prices/merch sales, lack of TV ratings, etc. These are problems that are more likely to be solved by WINNING than by building a new stadium.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Like Hydro said, no big businesses to buy the luxury boxes (or not enough, anyway)
Ralph's unwillingness to take on stadium debt
A broke county govt and even more broke state govt that would have difficulty contributing
Lack of suitable locations (this is the city that's been arguing about the location of a Bass Pro for 5 years- you think they could find a spot for a new stadium?)

Those are the major reasons.

But there are issues in Buffalo that a new stadium doesn't solve. Lack of luxury box sales, low ticket prices/merch sales, lack of TV ratings, etc. These are problems that are more likely to be solved by WINNING than by building a new stadium.
You raise many good points but I would like to address the luxury box situation a little. The Company I work for deals with many large companies such as Microsoft, IBM, Cisco, HP to name a few out of hundreds. They do hundreds of millions of dollars of business through my company and currently purchase boxes at both the Sabres and Bills games. So while they aren't based in Buffalo they still purchase boxes in this area for business reasons.

[Ingtar33]

Forgive me, b/c I'm an idiot. I gather that the one big thing that stands in the way of this franchise staying put in Buffalo is the erection of a new stadium. Why is this such a hard thing to imagine? The Sabres got a new arena years ago, and the city of Buffalo is and will always be a football town. I just don't see why this wouldn't happen.

Like I said, I'm an idiot. Can someone explain to me why this will or won't happen. I don't care if you speculate, I just want to someone to tell me why a great city like Buffalo, wouldn't do all it could to stabilize this franchise.

Thanks in advance.


The Sabres paid for HSBC themselves. the city and state had nothing to do with it

[elltrain22]

The Sabres paid for HSBC themselves. the city and state had nothing to do with it

didn't know that.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The Sabres paid for HSBC themselves. the city and state had nothing to do with it
This is not true.

Owner Erie County, NY, and the City of Buffalo, NY
Construction cost $ 127.5 million
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC_Arena_(Buffalo)

[Don't Panic]

I KNOW this isn't going to happen, but if Ralph wanted to do the right thing, he would use equity from the value of the team to headline a new stadium project. It is, quite simply, the only right thing to do.

[ArcticWildMan]

This is not true.

Owner Erie County, NY, and the City of Buffalo, NY
Construction cost $ 127.5 million
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC_Arena_(Buffalo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC_Arena_%28Buffalo))


Your link doesn't work. Any other links to HSBC arena do not mention funding by taxpayers.

[Ingtar33]

This is not true.

Owner Erie County, NY, and the City of Buffalo, NY
Construction cost $ 127.5 million
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC_Arena_(Buffalo)

wiki is wrong in this case.

HSBC is owned by Hockey Western New York, LLC (http://www.answers.com/topic/hockey-western-new-york-hockey-llc) (Centre Management); which is the blanket corporation which owns the Sabres, it's not owned by the City of Buffalo. It's owned by Tom Golisano

http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/BuffaloSabres/index.htm

It was funded by...
$72 million from the Knox Family
$55 million from the combined resources of New York State, Erie County, and the City of Buffalo.

The city of Buffalo did help in the construction costs but it did not pay for the lion share of the financing. It was building HSBC that put the sabres in such dire straights that the widow Knox had to sell the team to the Regis family, and the Regis then went bankrupt and it was still the financing of the Stadium that made the team so hard to sell. Golisano ATE the whole debt himself when he bought the team and balanced the books (he got the debt deducted from the price of the team, so that he only paid a pittance for the actual team and stadium, and a fortune for the debt, wiping it off the books in the same move; apparently the sabres were worth more in debt then assets)

[hydro]

Your link doesn't work. Any other links to HSBC arena do not mention funding by taxpayers.
LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC_Arena_%28Buffalo%29)

Says on the right side that Erie County and the City of Buffalo own it.

[ArcticWildMan]

LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC_Arena_%28Buffalo%29)

Says on the right side that Erie County and the City of Buffalo own it.

That link works.


Keep in mind, Wikipedia is an open source reference site. All info about any topic is submitted by web users.

I think I trust Ingtars information more than an obscure tidbit in Wikipedia.

[Ingtar33]

LINK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC_Arena_%28Buffalo%29)

Says on the right side that Erie County and the City of Buffalo own it.


and wiki is wrong. HSBC is owned by Hockey Western New York, LLC, which is owned by Tom Golisano

[hydro]

and wiki is wrong. HSBC is owned by Hockey Western New York, LLC, which is owned by Tom Golisano

Yes thank you. I posted the same time you did ;)

[YardRat]

http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/BuffaloSabres/index.htm


The arena and the Sabres are owned by Niagara Frontier Hockey L.P.

[YardRat]

Ooops...didn't see the link had already been posted.

[Historian]

JMO: It's clear, that if you want to compete with the big boys, you need a domed stadium, with a lot of suites and some restaurants in it.

Not just for the Bills, but to attract all kinds of events, like big name concerts, college basketball playoffs, and Super Bowls.

Look at the palace in Indy.

I would love to be able to go to a steakhouse at the stadium. Or a big Stones concert. I'd support the
building of a new dome, as long as I had some assurances the team would be here after RW's passing.

[YardRat]

The area needs jobs, first.

We've still got enough people willing to plunk down dollars for ticket for Bills games, special events, etc but any other kind of retail usage (restaurants, shops, etc) would be doomed to fail.

[ddaryl]

unless the NFL pays for most of the stadium I doubt there is any chance one would be built using NYS tax payer money... and we know Ralph isn't going to build one

[THATHURMANATOR]

wiki is wrong in this case.

HSBC is owned by Hockey Western New York, LLC (http://www.answers.com/topic/hockey-western-new-york-hockey-llc) (Centre Management); which is the blanket corporation which owns the Sabres, it's not owned by the City of Buffalo. It's owned by Tom Golisano

http://hockey.ballparks.com/NHL/BuffaloSabres/index.htm

It was funded by...
$72 million from the Knox Family
$55 million from the combined resources of New York State, Erie County, and the City of Buffalo.

The city of Buffalo did help in the construction costs but it did not pay for the lion share of the financing. It was building HSBC that put the sabres in such dire straights that the widow Knox had to sell the team to the Regis family, and the Regis then went bankrupt and it was still the financing of the Stadium that made the team so hard to sell. Golisano ATE the whole debt himself when he bought the team and balanced the books (he got the debt deducted from the price of the team, so that he only paid a pittance for the actual team and stadium, and a fortune for the debt, wiping it off the books in the same move; apparently the sabres were worth more in debt then assets)
STUPID WIKI!!!!

[Night Train]

JMO: It's clear, that if you want to compete with the big boys, you need a domed stadium, with a lot of suites and some restaurants in it.

Not just for the Bills, but to attract all kinds of events, like big name concerts, college basketball playoffs, and Super Bowls.

Look at the palace in Indy.

I would love to be able to go to a steakhouse at the stadium. Or a big Stones concert. I'd support the
building of a new dome, as long as I had some assurances the team would be here after RW's passing.

Precisely.

People squak at a Dome stadium but they are major $$ makers if you surround it with restaurants,stores,hotels,maybe a casino. Could host a future SB, College Bowl game, All-Star games etc.
Logistically, I don't think downtown Buffalo could handle it with limited thruways,roads,parking etc. but other spots in Erie or Niagara County could.

Back to reality. They've been trying to get a 2nd bridge going here for 12 freakin' years and are still at square one. Next to nothing ever gets done here and the County & State are broke.

[Typ0]

Wilson has the team poised to sell to the highest bidder on the open market. A new stadium would require a long term agreement to play there. Wilson is the reason there is no stadium being considered.

[jesseInEA]

People squak at a Dome stadium but they are major $$ makers if you surround it with restaurants,stores,hotels,maybe a casino.

This is true unless you look at, oh, you know, reality.

http://www.fieldofschemes.com

[Nighthawk]

The area needs jobs, first.

We've still got enough people willing to plunk down dollars for ticket for Bills games, special events, etc but any other kind of retail usage (restaurants, shops, etc) would be doomed to fail.

You don't attract people or companies if you lose your NFL team...that would not help this area's image.

[Nighthawk]

The Sabres paid for HSBC themselves. the city and state had nothing to do with it

I don't think you're correct and this article from the New York Times is how I remember it. The Sabres did not pay for the entire arena and they did have govt. help in funding it.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/07/14/sports/sports-people-hockey-new-york-will-help-pay-for-buffalo-arena.html