We need a QB.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Isn't it completely obvious a Franchise QB is by far the most important position in football? Are we seriously going to go LT in the draft and stick with Edwards and Fitz? HORRIBLE. Are we seriously going to roll the dice on Brohm? If Clausen or Bradford are on the board at 9 pull the fricken Trigger Buddy. Go LT in round 2.

[Pinkerton Security]

I had been in the same frame of mind as you, but now I want to model ourselves after what the Jets did...it doesnt matter if you draft a franchise QB is said QB is going to get flattened every play. Solidify the line, make us a power running team, THEN get ourselves a QB who can take time and learn to go through his progressions without feeling rushed.

[OpIv37]

Come on Thurm, you're smarter than this. What's the point of having a good qb if we can't protect them? That's one of the reasons why this team can't develop a qb.

Neither Claussen nor Bradford are the franchise qb you want, and they certainly won't be without a LT. On top of that, this team has new coaches and very little talent. 2010 is shot regardless of qb. It makes no sense to gamble on one at 9.

[patmoran2006]

Come on Thurm, you're smarter than this. What's the point of having a good qb if we can't protect them? That's one of the reasons why this team can't develop a qb.

Neither Claussen nor Bradford are the franchise qb you want, and they certainly won't be without a LT. On top of that, this team has new coaches and very little talent. 2010 is shot regardless of qb. It makes no sense to gamble on one at 9.

Out of curiosity, why are neither Bradford nor Clausen the type of Franchise QB's we want?

[BlackMetalNinja]

Come on Thurm, you're smarter than this. What's the point of having a good qb if we can't protect them? That's one of the reasons why this team can't develop a qb.

Neither Claussen nor Bradford are the franchise qb you want, and they certainly won't be without a LT. On top of that, this team has new coaches and very little talent. 2010 is shot regardless of qb. It makes no sense to gamble on one at 9.DING DING DING We Have a Winner! What do Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, and Brett Favre have in common? They aren't on their asses play after play. And as we saw, specifically with Favre and Brady as of late, when they are on their asses, they look pretty damn average.

[hydro]

I DO NOT want a first round QB. I think the best way to go is get everything else in order first and when the most glaring need is QB then we go out and get one. Throwing a QB to the wolves with a team in the shape it is now is just going to set us back another couple years.

[OpIv37]

Out of curiosity, why are neither Bradford nor Clausen the type of Franchise QB's we want?
I watched almost every play of Claussens career. Don't get me wrong- he was great at ND. But he has a weird throwing motion, benefitted from a pass-happy o and some great wr's, and seems to lack leadership and maturity. I always like seeing ND guys do well in the NFL and I wish him the best, but I just don't see it.

I'm not as familiar with Bradford but I've seen numerous concerns about him as well.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Come on Thurm, you're smarter than this. What's the point of having a good qb if we can't protect them? That's one of the reasons why this team can't develop a qb.

Neither Claussen nor Bradford are the franchise qb you want, and they certainly won't be without a LT. On top of that, this team has new coaches and very little talent. 2010 is shot regardless of qb. It makes no sense to gamble on one at 9.
I hear you but I am sick of this nonsense.
Clausen or Bradford are surely on Par with Sanchez.

With Butler coming back we are solidified somewhat besides LT.

Isn't it possible a LT we get in round 2 isn't a HUUUGE dropoff from what we would get in round 1? What round was Bushrod of the Saints taken?

[RockStar36]

Drafting a QB in the first round is not the way to go because in my mind, none of the QB's available at that spot are worthy of the pick. They shouldn't just pick a QB for the sake of picking a QB.

That being said, if Fitz, Edwards, and Brohm are the 3 choices for next season, that isn't good either. There are other options available for next season.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I watched almost every play of Claussens career. Don't get me wrong- he was great at ND. But he has a weird throwing motion, benefitted from a pass-happy o and some great wr's, and seems to lack leadership and maturity. I always like seeing ND guys do well in the NFL and I wish him the best, but I just don't see it.

I'm not as familiar with Bradford but I've seen numerous concerns about him as well.
His throwing motion is fine.

Bradfords only concern that I know of is health. It was a freak play that he was injured the first time.

[RockStar36]

His throwing motion is fine.

Bradfords only concern that I know of is health. It was a freak play that he was injured the first time.

Is it?

Not picking sides, but Op seems like he would be more of the expert on Clausen than any of us who didn't watch every single Notre Dame game.

[THATHURMANATOR]

The flaw in the wait till next year to draft a QB is the fact that we are delaying yet ANOTHER year to have a decent team. I assume that the QB we get this year or next year aren't going to be studs to start and need a year of seasoning. Why push that year off? Also from what I can gather the QB crop next year is nothing special at all.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Is it?

Not picking sides, but Op seems like he would be more of the expert on Clausen than any of us who didn't watch every single Notre Dame game.
I of course haven't watched even 5% of what OP has seen but I never noticed it to be weird at all. It seemed over the top to me.

[ByrdsTheWord]

We can acquire Peyton Manning or Drew Brees for all I care but he'd be no good while he's on his back every other play. Conversation over

[psubills62]

I hear you but I am sick of this nonsense.
Clausen or Bradford are surely on Par with Sanchez.

With Butler coming back we are solidified somewhat besides LT.

Isn't it possible a LT we get in round 2 isn't a HUUUGE dropoff from what we would get in round 1? What round was Bushrod of the Saints taken?

You also have to consider that this is Bushrod's third year in the NFL. He's really come into his own, but are you willing to wait two years before playing your OT? There's also no guarantee that our coaches could develop a 4th-round OT (Bushrod went in the 4th) like the Saints were able to.

If Bradford is there at 9, we should take him. If not, I'd rather grab an LT, then pick up someone like Dan Lefevour in later rounds. It might be worth it to try getting a small-school prospect like Lefevour, Nichols, Skelton, Hiller, etc. and developing them.

[RockStar36]

One thing to keep in mind throughout this all is how competently the Bills can draft a LT at the 9 spot.

[BlackMetalNinja]

One thing to keep in mind throughout this all is how competently the Bills can draft a LT at the 9 spot.Let me fix that for you...

One thing to keep in mind throughout this all is how competently the Bills can draft a ??? at the ??? spot.

[kernowboy]

I hear you but I am sick of this nonsense.
Clausen or Bradford are surely on Par with Sanchez.

With Butler coming back we are solidified somewhat besides LT.

Isn't it possible a LT we get in round 2 isn't a HUUUGE dropoff from what we would get in round 1? What round was Bushrod of the Saints taken?

What LTs do you expect to be available in R2?

I did an analysis of team needs up to where we draft in Round2.

There are 6 left tackles in this draft who could start from Day1. They are:

Russell Okung
Bruce Campbell
Bryan Bulaga
Anthony Davis
Trent Williams
Charles Brown.

Teams needing to draft a LT have a total of 17 picks where they can choose a left tackle prior to our second round pick

Exactly who the hell do you think will be left? Certainly there will not be a LT capable of starting from Day1.

People keep on mentioning the likes of Jason Fox. What they have failed to mention is that he's just needed knee surgery and had to sit out the final game with an irregular heartbeat. Red Flag anyone !!!!

Drafting a QB without a LT capable of guarding him, is draft and franchise suicide.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We can acquire Peyton Manning or Drew Brees for all I care but he'd be no good while he's on his back every other play. Conversation over
That is Complete BS!!!
Manning's Current LT is Charlie Johnson taken in the 6th round
Bree's Current LT is Jermon Bushrod taken in the 4th round

[Pinkerton Security]

His throwing motion is fine.

Bradfords only concern that I know of is health. It was a freak play that he was injured the first time.

My biggest concern with Bradford, along with McCoy and even Tebow, is that they come from spread formation teams in which they rarely have to perform many reads. 2nd on the list of concerns for Bradford is his durability, as you pointed out.

[ByrdsTheWord]

That is Complete BS!!!
Manning's Current LT is Charlie Johnson taken in the 6th round
Bree's Current LT is Jermon Bushrod taken in the 4th round

Their front office is competent. Saints and Colts have 2 of the best front offices in the league. We can't even land a top lineman in the first round. End of discussion.

[Pinkerton Security]

Their front office is competent. Saints and Colts have 2 of the best front offices in the league. We can't even land a top lineman in the first round. End of discussion.

...Except we got 2 of the top linemen in the late first and 2nd rounds last year, albeit not a tackle.

[ByrdsTheWord]

A dominant o-line can make any QB look decent. A dominant o-line can improve your QB and running game. A QB is only as good as your o-line. Our best chance of building a good o-line is drafting them early since we can't do it in the later rounds.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Their front office is competent. Saints and Colts have 2 of the best front offices in the league. We can't even land a top lineman in the first round. End of discussion.
For one this Front office is BRAND new and has made 0 moves.

Secondly didn't we get Peters in as an UDFA?

[ByrdsTheWord]

...Except we got 2 of the top linemen in the late first and 2nd rounds last year, albeit not a tackle.

And they were both mediocre. Woods is not even a guarantee to start early next year. WHo knows how long he'll be out.

[RockStar36]

And they were both mediocre. Woods is not even a guarantee to start early next year. WHo knows how long he'll be out.

Both are not mediocre. If healthy, he would definitely be starting.

[kernowboy]

That is Complete BS!!!
Manning's Current LT is Charlie Johnson taken in the 6th round
Bree's Current LT is Jermon Bushrod taken in the 4th round

Manning has over 10 years experience as QB. Brees has over 8 years experience. Both know how

Both Johnson and Bushrod did not start as rookie LT. Each gained 2 years experience before starting.

Would Bushrod even be starting if their R1 Pro Bowler Jamaal Brown not gotten injured?

Your premise is 100% false.

You are talking of starting a rookie QB behind a lower round rookie LT which is totally insane.

Do you have shares in medical insurance companies because thats what the rookie QB would require.

Draft a rookie QB behind a lower round LT and we are looking 0-16

[ByrdsTheWord]

For one this Front office is BRAND new and has made 0 moves.

Secondly didn't we get Peters in as an UDFA?

yea and how long did it take us to develop Peters? We technically only had him for 2 years. The other years we had him, he was nothing.

Our front office is ALWAYS brand new. How is this year any different?

[THATHURMANATOR]

A dominant o-line can make any QB look decent. A dominant o-line can improve your QB and running game. A QB is only as good as your o-line. Our best chance of building a good o-line is drafting them early since we can't do it in the later rounds.
This statement is False IMO.
Just My opinion so don't jump down my throat about it.

Manning/Brees/Rivers/Big Ben etc all would be good regardless of the line situation. Sure a better line would give them more success of course.

Look at Aaron Rodgers in GB. He gets smashed almost every play but still produces.

[Pinkerton Security]

And they were both mediocre. Woods is not even a guarantee to start early next year. WHo knows how long he'll be out.

You mean Wood? And for rookies they were actually pretty damn good, especially considering the schmos around them. Put either of them into the Jets or Pats lines and they would have been much better.

[THATHURMANATOR]

yea and how long did it take us to develop Peters? We technically only had him for 2 years. The other years we had him, he was nothing.

Our front office is ALWAYS brand new. How is this year any different?
It was a point to prove that they developed a perenial probowl LT from a UDFA.

It wasn't brand new the previous 2 years.

[ByrdsTheWord]

Teams that succeed ALWAYS build the offensive line before getting a QB. This is how Parcells is ALWAYS successful wherever he goes. EVERYWHERE he's been he's always had a dominant o-line and a mediocre QB. He knows the importance of a good offensive line. This is something we havent had in over 15 years. Time to get this right. We keep saying that QB is our problem. NUH UH. You can't tell how good our QB actually is because they're not being protected.

[kernowboy]

and Fitzpatrick did well at the Bengals precisely because he had a decent OL including LT allowing him time to find receivers and get the ball to them

[THATHURMANATOR]

You mean Wood? And for rookies they were actually pretty damn good, especially considering the schmos around them. Put either of them into the Jets or Pats lines and they would have been much better.
They were more than Competent for Rookies starting from Day 1.

From what read Wood is recovering nicely.

[THATHURMANATOR]

and Fitzpatrick did well at the Bengals precisely because he had a decent OL including LT allowing him time to find receivers and get the ball to them
He didn't do any better with the Bengals than he did with the bills last year.

He actually had more TDs in nearly 100 less attempts in Buffalo than he did in Cincy.

[mikemac2001]

Keep up what we have been doing Get this OLIne young and talented FIX the Dline then get a QB i can wait a year with edwards and brohm and see if anything is there if not have a top tier QB next year

[ByrdsTheWord]

This statement is False IMO.
Just My opinion so don't jump down my throat about it.

Manning/Brees/Rivers/Big Ben etc all would be good regardless of the line situation. Sure a better line would give them more success of course.

Look at Aaron Rodgers in GB. He gets smashed almost every play but still produces.

You think Manning, Brees and Rivers would produce regardless of the o-line situation? I beg to differ. Brees is 6'0". If he didnt get the protection all his balls would be batted back in his face. I guarantee it. Manning, Brees and Rivers have an all-pro o-line. Thats why they're able to do what they do.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Come on Folks what nearly all the teams that have won a superbowl have in common? A great QB.

[THATHURMANATOR]

You think Manning, Brees and Rivers would produce regardless of the o-line situation? I beg to differ. Brees is 6'0". If he didnt get the protection all his balls would be batted back in his face. I guarantee it. Manning, Brees and Rivers have an all-pro o-line. Thats why they're able to do what they do.
Put him on the Bills and we would instantly improve by 2 to 3 wins over last year. AT LEAST!!!

[hydro]

It was a point to prove that they developed a perenial probowl LT from a UDFA.

It wasn't brand new the previous 2 years.

Not they. Jim McNally did who isn't here anymore.

[ByrdsTheWord]

Come on Folks what nearly all the teams that have won a superbowl have in common? A great QB.

Didnt know Joe Namath, Neil O'Donnell, Trent Dilfer, Eli Manning, Brad Johnson, were such great QBs. Who knew.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Keep up what we have been doing Get this OLIne young and talented FIX the Dline then get a QB i can wait a year with edwards and brohm and see if anything is there if not have a top tier QB next year
Edwards is Terrible. Brohm does have a little potential but I would rather get a higher rated player.

This all may be a moot point though because it does seem as if Bradford and Clausen will be gone before our pick. I wouldn't advocate taking any other QB at 9.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Didnt know Joe Namath, Neil O'Donnell, Trent Dilfer, Eli Manning, Brad Johnson, were such great QBs. Who knew.
Way to pick out 4 guys....

Eli is definitely on pace to have a very good career.
Neil O'Donnell didn't win the superbowl.

Yeah I forgot that Joe Namath was a Hall of famer I guess. WTF are you talking about?

[kernowboy]

Clausen or Bradford will not be available at 9.

St Louis, Washington, Bradford, and Cleveland all have a QB as does Oakland if they can dump Russell's contract, and the 49ers can pair two R1 picks together and move up.

I cannot see anyway we'll have a chance of Clausen or Bradford anyway.

[ByrdsTheWord]

Edwards is Terrible. Brohm does have a little potential but I would rather get a higher rated player.

This all may be a moot point though because it does seem as if Bradford and Clausen will be gone before our pick. I wouldn't advocate taking any other QB at 9.

He's TERRIBLE because of the bad protection he got. Especially for a young QB thats the worst thing you can possibly do. Stick him behind a bad o-line. That screws you up mentally, rhythm and mechanics.

Of course if Clausen or Bradford are there, thats a no brainer...but IF i had to pick between Bradford, Clausen and Okung (and all were there when we pick which won't happen). I'd pick Okung any day of the week.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Clausen or Bradford will not be available at 9.

St Louis, Washington, Bradford, and Cleveland all have a QB as does Oakland if they can dump Russell's contract, and the 49ers can pair two R1 picks together and move up.

I cannot see anyway we'll have a chance of Clausen or Bradford anyway.
St Louis you are right
I could see Washington re signing Cambell
No way Cleveland dumps both Qb's to take another ND QB
Oakland won't go QB.
49ers were liking Smith towards the end of last year.

[THATHURMANATOR]

He's TERRIBLE because of the bad protection he got. Especially for a young QB thats the worst thing you can possibly do. Stick him behind a bad o-line. That screws you up mentally, rhythm and mechanics.

Of course if Clausen or Bradford are there, thats a no brainer...but IF i had to pick between Bradford, Clausen and Okung (and all were there when we pick which won't happen). I'd pick Okung any day of the week.
You are right that he didn't get adequate protection some games. He did in others and still could not produce. He is gun shy and injury prone. I just don't see it with him.

I would puke in my mouth if we take Okung over either of those QBs.

[kernowboy]

St Louis you are right
I could see Washington re signing Cambell
No way Cleveland dumps both Qb's to take another ND QB
Oakland won't go QB.
49ers were liking Smith towards the end of last year.

I cannot see Snyder passing on Clausen or Bradford

Seattle passed on Sanchez last year and need a guy for the future

Holmgren and Mangini will want their own man, and may well dump both QBs if there is no CBA.

Oakland will dump Russell at the first opportunity but have no-one else and will take Clausen if he is available.

[ByrdsTheWord]

If either Clausen or Bradford slips past Seattle, then i can see us drafting a QB. They're the key right now and i know they're looking at QB this year.

[justasportsfan]

If our franchise qb is in this draft, grab him and build a team arround him. If he isn't then proceed with the OL.I'm not ready to give up on the young players we drafted on OL. If we have the right coach then he will make them better.

It takes a qb longer than a OL player to develop. Peyton doesn't have an all pro OL but he makes it look like he does.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I cannot see Snyder passing on Clausen or Bradford

Seattle passed on Sanchez last year and need a guy for the future

Holmgren and Mangini will want their own man, and may well dump both QBs if there is no CBA.

Oakland will dump Russell at the first opportunity but have no-one else and will take Clausen if he is available.
It is certainly possible.

[Pinkerton Security]

Didnt know Joe Namath, Neil O'Donnell, Trent Dilfer, Eli Manning, Brad Johnson, were such great QBs. Who knew.

For the record, I want to build a line first and then draft a QB.

However, this statement is invalid..lets look at the last 20 super bowls and who the winning team had as thier QB...

2009 - Big Ben
2008 - Eli Manning
2007 - Peyton Manning
2006 - Big Ben
2005 - Brady
2004 - Brady
2003 - Brad Johnson
2002 - Brady
2001 - Dilfer
2000 - Warner
1999 - Elway
1998 - Elway
1997 - Favre
1996 - Aikman
1995 - Young
1994 - Aikman
1993 - Aikman
1992 - Rypien
1991 - Simms
1990 - Montana

So...as you can see, Dilfer and Johnson are the exceptions, not the norm. However, I still want to get a LT to protect our QBs backside before we throw a young guy out there.

[THATHURMANATOR]

If our franchise qb is in this draft, grab him and build a team arround him. If he isn't then proceed with the OL.I'm not ready to give up on the young players we drafted on OL. If we have the right coach then he will make them better.

It takes a qb longer than a OL player to develop. Peyton doesn't have an all pro OL but he makes it look like he does.
:bf1:

[ByrdsTheWord]

I cannot see Snyder passing on Clausen or Bradford

Seattle passed on Sanchez last year and need a guy for the future

Holmgren and Mangini will want their own man, and may well dump both QBs if there is no CBA.

Oakland will dump Russell at the first opportunity but have no-one else and will take Clausen if he is available.

Gradkowski had that team on the go before he got hurt. I can see him taking over the starting QB spot next year.

[Beebe's Kid]

You think Manning, Brees and Rivers would produce regardless of the o-line situation? I beg to differ. Brees is 6'0". If he didnt get the protection all his balls would be batted back in his face. I guarantee it. Manning, Brees and Rivers have an all-pro o-line. Thats why they're able to do what they do.

The best part about this is you are serious. Do you remember Doug Flutie? He wasn't 6'5", and his passes didn't all get batted down into his face. Brees is a ****ing QB, unlike the piles of **** we have now (in fairness, Brohm is not a pile of ****.)

This thread has taken a turn to LT vs. QB, when what I originally read was QB first, the LT. Does a QB need a line, yes, but if it was Fitzy, he could have the Great Wall in front of him, and still not make the throws. Forgive me if I am wrong, but Thurmanator was not saying to forget the O-Line, simply saying that there are options in Rd 2 at OT, with the options being not so good past pick 9 at QB.

From what I see out of Bradford, he is athletic and cerebral. If we could just have those two qualities in the same QB... If he is available, I say grab him. Clausen, I am not so sure about.

We are also putting the cart in front of the horse. FA signing is before the draft. I think that Brohm is good enough to merit a stop-gap option. I will trust the two guys who have a history of evaluating NFL talent, and subsequently developing it, make the decisions.

This is going to be a very long off-season.

[hydro]

My ideal situation is do whatever possible to get a veteran Qb. Either this season or next season draft a QB but let him sit a few seasons. We have been doing this start a rookie QB business too many times and it hasn't worked. Lets try it a different way.

[THATHURMANATOR]

For the record, I want to build a line first and then draft a QB.

However, this statement is invalid..lets look at the last 20 super bowls and who the winning team had as thier QB...

2009 - Big Ben
2008 - Eli Manning
2007 - Peyton Manning
2006 - Big Ben
2005 - Brady
2004 - Brady
2003 - Brad Johnson
2002 - Brady
2001 - Dilfer
2000 - Warner
1999 - Elway
1998 - Elway
1997 - Favre
1996 - Aikman
1995 - Young
1994 - Aikman
1993 - Aikman
1992 - Rypien
1991 - Simms
1990 - Montana

So...as you can see, Dilfer and Johnson are the exceptions, not the norm. However, I still want to get a LT to protect our QBs backside before we throw a young guy out there.
Right
I think we are alllllll in agreement that an LT is needed but I am more for getting one in the 2nd or 3rd or signing a veteran FA with EXP.

[justasportsfan]

For the record, I want to build a line first and then draft a QB.

.
We already dstarted last year.

[THATHURMANATOR]

My ideal situation is do whatever possible to get a veteran Qb. Either this season or next season draft a QB but let him sit a few seasons. We have been doing this start a rookie QB business too many times and it hasn't worked. Lets try it a different way.
Charles there are no Veteran QB's out there worth a damn.

Vick? I just don't see it.
Mcnabb? I would take him but I doubt he is available.
Who else?

[THATHURMANATOR]

We already dstarted last year.
Its as if people missed our FA signing at center and our 1st and 2nd round picks last year.

[hydro]

Charles there are no Veteran QB's out there worth a damn.

Vick? I just don't see it.
Mcnabb? I would take him but I doubt he is available.
Who else?
Anything can happen in the off-season. I know the crop of vets is minimal but you never know what could come up. We had no clue that Cutler would want out of Denver last year...

It is my ideal situation even though it isn't likely :D

[kernowboy]

Gradkowski had that team on the go before he got hurt. I can see him taking over the starting QB spot next year.

He did his ligaments in both knees so might not be able to come back

[Pinkerton Security]

Its as if people missed our FA signing at center and our 1st and 2nd round picks last year.

some may have missed this year, and yes we have a solid nucleus for our line. However, it is certainly debatable that LT is the most important position in football and at this moment we have no one I feel comfortable putting out there. I know we all want instant gratification but I feel the best course of action is, as someone said earlier, to only draft a QB if he is franchise caliber, otherwise build up the line with the best players we can.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Anything can happen in the off-season. I know the crop of vets is minimal but you never know what could come up. We had no clue that Cutler would want out of Denver last year...

It is my ideal situation even though it isn't likely :D
I could get on board depending on the Player that comes available.

[DraftBoy]

A few notes and I will try not to repeat a lot;

-St. Louis will not be going QB in my mind with the #1 overall pick. I think they are taking Suh, and it would be a huge mistake for them to pass on him.

-One of Bradford or Clausen will fall to us, and Id pass on both.

-My pick at the moment is either Rolando McClain or Bryan Bulaga dependent of course upon another player falling like Derrick Morgan. But right now Id take the LT over any of them.

[kernowboy]

I can see Washington taking Bradford and Seattle Clausen

[THATHURMANATOR]

A few notes and I will try not to repeat a lot;

-St. Louis will not be going QB in my mind with the #1 overall pick. I think they are taking Suh, and it would be a huge mistake for them to pass on him.

-One of Bradford or Clausen will fall to us, and Id pass on both.

-My pick at the moment is either Rolando McClain or Bryan Bulaga dependent of course upon another player falling like Derrick Morgan. But right now Id take the LT over any of them.
I love McClain and I would like Buluga but enough is enough with these crap QBs.

[TacklingDummy]

No draft pick is a sure thing. If Clausen or Bradford turn out to be studs and the Bills past on them at #9 the Bills will continue to look like fools. Out of all the 1st round draft picks last year the Bills probably ended up with the worst.

This team has been starving for a QB since Kelly left. It's time to take a chance.

[DraftBoy]

I can see Washington taking Bradford and Seattle Clausen

Carrol has no need to move on from Hass at this point who still has 2-3 good years left, and Shanny's coaching profile has always been about strong line play first and foremost. Expect him to fix the OL in Round 1.

[DraftBoy]

No draft pick is a sure thing. If Clausen or Bradford turn out to be studs and the Bills past on them at #9 the Bills will continue to look like fools. Out of all the 1st round draft picks last year the Bills probably ended up with the worst.

This team has been starving for a QB since Kelly left. It's time to take a chance.

Eric Wood?

And Maybin looked poor yes but he was also known as the biggest project coming out, so anybody who knew anything never expected him to do anything last year.

[TacklingDummy]

And Maybin looked poor yes but he was also known as the biggest project coming out, so anybody who knew anything never expected him to do anything last year.
The Bills don't have the luxury to be picking projects.
McFumbles was a project, Losman was a project, Maybin is a project, picking projects really hasnt worked out for the Bills. Maybe they should start picking football players instead.

Are you really trying to defend the Maybin pick?

[Dicknoze69]

I cannot see Snyder passing on Clausen or Bradford

Seattle passed on Sanchez last year and need a guy for the future

Holmgren and Mangini will want their own man, and may well dump both QBs if there is no CBA.

Oakland will dump Russell at the first opportunity but have no-one else and will take Clausen if he is available.

With the hiring of Hue Jackson, Oakland is not expected to dump JaMarcus Russell. If anything, I'd wager Al Davis forces the coaches to start him.

As for QBs, going by Ingtar's analysis and other stuff I've read/watched, Bradford looks like the safest QB in the draft with potential to be very good. Clausen has a lot of risk attached to him.

The bottom line in this thread is that we need both a QB and some offensive line help. If the right player is there for either position, you take them.

Also, keep in mind that a lot of great QB's make their offensive line look better because they get rid of the ball so quickly and they can move in the pocket to avoid the rush. It's a very underrated QB ability.

[DraftBoy]

The Bills don't have the luxury to be picking projects.
McFumbles was a project, Losman was a project, Maybin is a project, picking projects really hasnt worked out for the Bills. Maybe they should start picking football players instead.

Are you really trying to defend the Maybin pick?

Your first paragraph doesn't make any sense since almost any draft pick can be argued to be a project since nobody has any idea how they will turn out. And you always take some raw players because their potential yield and just that much higher.

Did I say I was defending the pick? I simply said its dumb to make any kind of a definitive statement about Maybin's ability right now since he did exactly what most people expected of him.

[Night Train]

I love McClain and I would like Buluga but enough is enough with these crap QBs.

Which is what DB is trying to say. You can't reach for one early. That's why losing organizations never change and that's where we are at now. Let's change that, finally.

Bradford,Clausen,Tebow,McCoy etc. all have name recognition but serious flaws in their actual ability. I don't see a Sanchez,Matt Ryan ,Flacco type at all in this bunch.

I see 3-4 LT's worthy of top 15 talent. I don't see one QB. Don't reach.

Find a Vet, prior to the Draft or take a flyer on Brohm.

[trapezeus]

The flaw in the wait till next year to draft a QB is the fact that we are delaying yet ANOTHER year to have a decent team. I assume that the QB we get this year or next year aren't going to be studs to start and need a year of seasoning. Why push that year off? Also from what I can gather the QB crop next year is nothing special at all.

Wrong, we are addressing immediate needs right now. draft a qb and he's a project. a peyton manning who has years of experience can make due with poor line play because he diagnosis' everything at the line and makes a fast decision from years of experience. our rookie won't have that benefit.

the bills made a conscious choice to bore the crap out of us for another 2-3 years before results come. so solidify your line, get your runners running and let a dink and dunker make short passes on 2nd and 3rd down.

currently, we can't run with consistency. we can't pass. no one is open. the qb needs time.

[justasportsfan]

draft a qb and he's a project. .
draft a qb next year and he's a project too. We're just delaying another year.

[Bill Cody]

Which is what DB is trying to say. You can't reach for one early. That's why losing organizations never change and that's where we are at now. Let's change that, finally.

Bradford,Clausen,Tebow,McCoy etc. all have name recognition but serious flaws in their actual ability. I don't see a Sanchez,Matt Ryan ,Flacco type at all in this bunch.

I see 3-4 LT's worthy of top 15 talent. I don't see one QB. Don't reach.

Find a Vet, prior to the Draft or take a flyer on Brohm.

You want to hear something scary? Bradford reminds me of maybe a little better Trent Edwards. Good not great arm strength, injury concerns, not built real rugged. The other thing that bothers me about Bradford is he's played a ton of shotgun not drop back, his footwork will need work. And he's been used to great protection at OU. How will he do running for his life? He's a good QB but I can't see him being great. Clausen had superior receivers at ND. Is he ready for prime time? I don't think so.

If it wasn't so damn windy in Buffalo the guy I like because he has a) super accuracy and b) off the charts intangibles is Colt McCoy. He might be there when we pick in the 2nd if we want him. The knock on him is the lack of elite arm strength and he's not built to sustain a lot of NFL hits either. But he would be FUN to watch. Trust me having a leader that can make things happen with his arm and his legs will be needed in a Chan Gailey vanilla ice cream offense. So I guess my take is avoid the risk in the first but take a risk in the 2nd AND take another flyer in FA by signing another guy that is a proven winner and fun to watch in Troy Smith. If we're going to suck, why not go down swinging?

[SABURZFAN]

It makes no sense to gamble on one at 9.


:bf1:


FINALLY!!!!!!!!!! somebody with common sense.

[trapezeus]

draft a qb next year and he's a project too. We're just delaying another year.

true, but if you are giving him better tools and more time in the pocket, he'll be able to learn quicker.

I'm not against drafting a qb in 2010. but i think you have to go LT first. get the qb later.

sanchex, roethlisberger and those types of qb's showed that they can learn with their growing pains in a year when given a sound running game, and a good line.

So if you finalize the line and have it up to snuff, you could get a 2011 (no lockout assumption) and have him play at a decent level for the team to succeed.

What i don't want to see happen is the bills trade up to get back in the first round to pick more players. the bills have a lot of holes all over the field. they don't need to have less picks.

[better days]

Carrol has no need to move on from Hass at this point who still has 2-3 good years left, and Shanny's coaching profile has always been about strong line play first and foremost. Expect him to fix the OL in Round 1.

I agree Seattle will most likely draft a LT with their 1st pick, but would not be surprised if they take a QB with their 2nd 1st rnd pick.

[Nighthawk]

Is it?

Not picking sides, but Op seems like he would be more of the expert on Clausen than any of us who didn't watch every single Notre Dame game.

I'm a big fan of the Irish and Clausen has the arm strength and accuracy to succeed in Buffalo. His delivery is not that wierd...he is on par with Sanchez...no doubt in my mind. IMO, he is suffering a little from how Brady Quinn's career in the NFL has gone so far...just like some people didn't want Orakpo because he came out of Texas. The over analysis has begun....

[justasportsfan]

true, but if you are giving him better tools and more time in the pocket, he'll be able to learn quicker.

I'm not against drafting a qb in 2010. but i think you have to go LT first. get the qb later.

sanchex, roethlisberger and those types of qb's showed that they can learn with their growing pains in a year when given a sound running game, and a good line.

So if you finalize the line and have it up to snuff, you could get a 2011 (no lockout assumption) and have him play at a decent level for the team to succeed.

What i don't want to see happen is the bills trade up to get back in the first round to pick more players. the bills have a lot of holes all over the field. they don't need to have less picks.


I am not disagreeing with either sides. I just don't think that we should just draft one way over the other,period .

If the qb is there to be had at where we pick, I'd rather take him over an LT . I'd rather we get started with grooming him this year rather than later. To say we have to draft an LT means we already know that the guys we have are busts. Anyone who played under Dick turned into busts while playing for him.

It takes longer to groom a QB than an LT . The chances of a drafted QB under this OL failing is way lesser with an offensive minded coach than Dick.

[TacklingDummy]

Your first paragraph doesn't make any sense since almost any draft pick can be argued to be a project since nobody has any idea how they will turn out.
The same could be said then when people, like you, say Clausen or Bradford are not worth the 9th pick. Hindsight is always a beautiful thing. Fact of the matter is, if Clausen or Bradford are there at #9 and the Bills don't pick one of them and they go on to be stars, the Bills will look like fools again.

[TacklingDummy]

Did I say I was defending the pick? I simply said its dumb to make any kind of a definitive statement about Maybin's ability right now since he did exactly what most people expected of him.
Great, we expected him to suck, he did suck, he lived up to expectations.

[SABURZFAN]

I'm a big fan of the Irish and Clausen has the arm strength and accuracy to succeed in Buffalo. His delivery is not that wierd...


his delivery is weird to me. though i've only seen a couple of Irish games this past year, there's something about his throw i don't like. i'm not a coach or scout so i couldn't tell you what it is. maybe his release is not quick enough or something. i don't know. i just have a bad feeling about him.

[Tatonka]

This statement is False IMO.
Just My opinion so don't jump down my throat about it.

Manning/Brees/Rivers/Big Ben etc all would be good regardless of the line situation. Sure a better line would give them more success of course.

Look at Aaron Rodgers in GB. He gets smashed almost every play but still produces.

i agree with thurm..

the great qbs in the league are great year in and year out.. doesnt matter who their line is.. big ben and rodgers have had some awful lines and still produce.. you think mannings line is perfect every year? they are last in rush offense.. because their line is average at best.. but he makes them look like great pass blockers because he is so good.

that said.. i have no idea if there is a qb like him that will be available in any draft ever.. but i am ok with drafting a guy in the 1st round if the bills think its their guy. we may go LT in FA or 2nd round or whatever.

[Canadian'eh!]

Isn't it completely obvious a Franchise QB is by far the most important position in football? Are we seriously going to go LT in the draft and stick with Edwards and Fitz? HORRIBLE. Are we seriously going to roll the dice on Brohm? If Clausen or Bradford are on the board at 9 pull the fricken Trigger Buddy. Go LT in round 2.


Bradford - Does he have a good enough arm for Buffalo/Nix?
Clausen- IS going to be a HUGE bust. Dude sucked at ND for christ sakes. They play **** for teams too.

NO... Build a foundation, find a VET QB and take on in round 3 or so, if need be look high draft next year.

[X-Era]

Isn't it completely obvious a Franchise QB is by far the most important position in football? Are we seriously going to go LT in the draft and stick with Edwards and Fitz? HORRIBLE. Are we seriously going to roll the dice on Brohm? If Clausen or Bradford are on the board at 9 pull the fricken Trigger Buddy. Go LT in round 2.

I saw this and was about to respond by saying "prepare for conflict" but now that its 5 pages in, I think you already know that.

I will say what I usually say, with a team that needs players at several positions, there are very few wrong answers (position wise), drafting a QB (if worthy of the 9 pick), is not a wrong answer IMO.

The draft is never one round long, unless your Mike Ditka.

A recovered Jason Fox is a decent LT prospect, IMO, who can be had outside of round 1. There are others.

[X-Era]

I had been in the same frame of mind as you, but now I want to model ourselves after what the Jets did...it doesnt matter if you draft a franchise QB is said QB is going to get flattened every play. Solidify the line, make us a power running team, THEN get ourselves a QB who can take time and learn to go through his progressions without feeling rushed.

The Jets have 4 1st round draft picks on the OL. Does that mean we should do the same? If so, we are 3 more drafts away from having their line and then 4 years away from drafting a QB?

Not trying to be cute, just pointing out that getting to there level on the OL is no small task, and will take years... can we afford to wait that long before even starting to develop a franchise QB?

[X-Era]

I hear you but I am sick of this nonsense.
Clausen or Bradford are surely on Par with Sanchez.

With Butler coming back we are solidified somewhat besides LT.

Isn't it possible a LT we get in round 2 isn't a HUUUGE dropoff from what we would get in round 1? What round was Bushrod of the Saints taken?

I agree on this point, I only wish we had our version of D'Brick already on this team.

But yes, Flacco, and others also were similar in ability. Neither Flacco nor Sanchez was #1 overall, sure-fire franchise QB material the way many thought Manning was.

[hemi13]

Hey Pinkdogg32, did you play QB? No matter what formation you run, you still have to make your reads downfield.
I say draft a QB NOW!

[THATHURMANATOR]

Bradford - Does he have a good enough arm for Buffalo/Nix?
Clausen- IS going to be a HUGE bust. Dude sucked at ND for christ sakes. They play **** for teams too.

NO... Build a foundation, find a VET QB and take on in round 3 or so, if need be look high draft next year.
What do you care you aren't a Bills fan.

[kernowboy]

Personally we go LT this year.

See who becomes available in FA even on a 1year deal only.

Next year we look at a first round QB (franchise type) - Locker and Devlin will be seniors, Mallett and Gabbert will have spent another year in the system, and depending whether or not Harbaugh stays at Stamford, Andrew Luck might come out though unlikely.

None of these guys are currently considered to be at the level of Clausen or Bradford.

HOWEVER, they will have had another year of seasoning to develop further.

Lets not forget that Bradford missed most of his junior season so all we have to go on is his sophmore year in a not very pro like offense, whilst Clausen has only really stepped up in his junior season.

Whilst some will regress, there can be the expectation that a QB will continue to improve in college.

I think Pat Devlin who has done a 'Flacco' could prove to be a dark horse. Having performed well in relief at Penn St, he had a good starting season at Delaware and will gain another years starting experience. Leaving as a senior for the 2011 draft there is no question he has the arm strength needed at the Ralph and he will be more seasoned coming out.

What will assist him or any other guy will be to have an established LT who has already suffered and gotten through his own pro growing pains.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I'm a big fan of the Irish and Clausen has the arm strength and accuracy to succeed in Buffalo. His delivery is not that wierd...he is on par with Sanchez...no doubt in my mind. IMO, he is suffering a little from how Brady Quinn's career in the NFL has gone so far...just like some people didn't want Orakpo because he came out of Texas. The over analysis has begun....
I agree! He seems to me to be a much better prospect than Brady Quinn as well.

He seems bigger and to have more zip on his passes.

[kernowboy]

We draft a QB without first getting a franchise LT and after his second concussion we have Trent Edwards Mk2

[Aliceinchainsbills15]

Isn't it completely obvious a Franchise QB is by far the most important position in football? Are we seriously going to go LT in the draft and stick with Edwards and Fitz? HORRIBLE. Are we seriously going to roll the dice on Brohm? If Clausen or Bradford are on the board at 9 pull the fricken Trigger Buddy. Go LT in round 2.
Yes!OMG SOMEONE WHO IS IN AGREEMENT WITH ME! Qb is a def need.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We draft a QB without first getting a franchise LT and after his second concussion we have Trent Edwards Mk2

This is such a generic blanket statement that everyone is making these days.

This is assuming we dont address the position AT ALL in the offseason.

Even then we would have back a healthy line, and Bell/Meredith have a year of seasoning.

Edwards is as fragile as fine China. The hit that put him out was weak. Fitzpatrick didn't really get hit all that much.

We don't take an LT in round one so what. Take a decent one in round 2. Sign a capable Vet in FA.

[BillsMan80]

We draft a QB without first getting a franchise LT and after his second concussion we have Trent Edwards Mk2

We don't have to let Clausen or Bradford play this year if we take one. Let ****ty Edwards or Fitzpatrick take a beating this year while we lose, and then insert 2nd year QB with 1st Year LT. 2nd Year QB/1st Year LT sounds a lot better than 1st Year QB/2nd YearLT.

[kernowboy]

Yes!OMG SOMEONE WHO IS IN AGREEMENT WITH ME! Qb is a def need.

No-one saying QB is not a need.

However the issue is, how do you assemble a team so the QB you draft does not become a total bust being knocked out of the game, every game, or having to run for their lives every play because of completely inadequate protection from LT?

[THATHURMANATOR]

We don't have to let Clausen or Bradford play this year if we take one. Let ****ty Edwards or Fitzpatrick take a beating this year while we lose, and then insert 2nd year QB with 1st Year LT. 2nd Year QB/1st Year LT sounds a lot better than 1st Year QB/2nd YearLT.
EVEN BETTER!!!!!
In this scenario the Rookie has a year to develop, practice with the pros, Condition with the pros etc.

[THATHURMANATOR]

No-one saying QB is not a need.

However the issue is, how do you assemble a team so the QB you draft does not become a total bust being knocked out of the game, every game, or having to run for their lives every play because of completely inadequate protection from LT?
Why does this QB need to start immediately?

What are the chances he get injured so easily?

[TacklingDummy]

EVEN BETTER!!!!!
In this scenario the Rookie has a year to develop, practice with the pros, Condition with the pros etc.
Can't learn from the bench. Let him play from day 1.

[X-Era]

Why does this QB need to start immediately?

What are the chances he get injured so easily?

What about the Peters scenario? Isnt it possible to draft a OT later or even a UDFA and have him go from obscurity to being a very good LT in this league? Can lightning strike twice?

Maybe that guy is Bell, or Meredith, or someone new.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What about the Peters scenario? Isnt it possible to draft a OT later or even a UDFA and have him go from obscurity to being a very good LT in this league? Can lightning strike twice?

Maybe that guy is Bell, or Meredith, or someone new.
Even better.

I didnt' hate Bell OR Meredith last year. Problem was they were hurt much of the year.

It makes no sense in my mind to not take Clausen if he is on the board.

I don't buy this doesn't grade out crap. What doesn't grade out exactly?

He has a strong arm.
Played in a pro style offense.
He is adequate size.
He is accurate enough.

What gives???

[kernowboy]

What about the Peters scenario? Isnt it possible to draft a OT later or even a UDFA and have him go from obscurity to being a very good LT in this league? Can lightning strike twice?

Maybe that guy is Bell, or Meredith, or someone new.

Exactly when does this occur overnight.

I don't recall Peters even been the turnstyle Bell was when he first started

[THATHURMANATOR]

Can't learn from the bench. Let him play from day 1.
Fine by me I was just saying.

[X-Era]

Can't learn from the bench. Let him play from day 1.

If Ryan, Flacco, and now Sanchez hadnt had such early success, Id disagree, but the thought is intriguing.

That said, I need to back Kerno a bit too, we have no one who even remotely looks like a quality starter at LT on this roster right now either.

Lots of problems and not enough solutions.

Its going to take more than one year to get all the pieces most likely. It may not matter that much which way we go and when.

[X-Era]

Exactly when does this occur overnight.

I don't recall Peters even been the turnstyle Bell was when he first started

He was pretty inconsistent, IMO, at RT, and in his first year at LT.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Exactly when does this occur overnight.

I don't recall Peters even been the turnstyle Bell was when he first started
He also was a RT to start and eased in.

I saw Potential in Bell. He definitely needs to cut down on penalties and work on technique, but I see the same type of athleticism.

[TacklingDummy]

What gives???
Notre Dame hate. Mirer, Quinn, Clausen.

[BillsWin]

My opinion is that LT is the top priority for this team rivaled only by a franchise QB.

HOWEVER, if Bradford or Clausen falls you take them. Period.

Doubtful that they do fall, but if they do, I don't see the argument against taking them unless by some miracle Suh lasts to nine. Which is not a possibility.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Its going to take more than one year to get all the pieces most likely. It may not matter that much which way we go and when.
If this is the case why not start with the BY FAR most important position on the field?

[THATHURMANATOR]

My opinion is that LT is the top priority for this team rivaled only by a franchise QB.

HOWEVER, if Bradford or Clausen falls you take them. Period.

Doubtful that they do fall, but if they do, I don't see the argument against taking them unless by some miracle Suh lasts to nine. Which is not a possibility.
Agreed!!
Hell DB has Clausen lasting till 26th or some crap.

[kernowboy]

Why does this QB need to start immediately?

What are the chances he get injured so easily?

Because we have far too many needs not to have our 1st rounder start from Day1

We had that occur this season gone.

We need to draft a Day1 starter as our starting lineup has too many holes to have our draft pick ride the pine for the season.

In that scenario, why not have our future guy at QB gain another years experience in college and draft him next year, being able to start him from Day1 behind proper protection?

Unless fans are complete homers for Clausen and Bradford there is no reason to think the 2011 prospects won't step up and be at the level of these two by next year.

Lets not forget Bradford hasn't even played for several months so all we have is his sophmore record to go on

Unless Nix is a senile imbecile there is no way he will draft his first R1 pick with the intention not to play him, or stick him behind our current line

It was he who said
"If they're good enough, they'll have a chance to be here ... It's hard to throw when you're lying on your back"

[THATHURMANATOR]

Because we have far too many needs not to have our 1st rounder start from Day1

We had that occur this season gone.

We need to draft a Day1 starter as our starting lineup has too many holes to have our draft pick ride the pine for the season.

In that scenario, why not have our future guy at QB gain another years experience in college and draft him next year, being able to start him from Day1 behind proper protection?

Unless fans are complete homers for Clausen and Bradford there is no reason to think the 2011 prospects won't step up and be at the level of these two by next year.

Lets not forget Bradford hasn't even played for several months so all we have is his sophmore record to go on
Fine Start him day 1 I would rather that happen.

The above makes NO SENSE to me personally. We are in agreement that no QB currently in college is any better than Clausen or Bradford. We have no crystal ball to see if any will improve next year.

Why wouldn't we get one of the two if given the chance and have them start their growth process immediately? College teaches a player nothing about the NFL.

[BillsWin]

Sadly, I don't think Bradford lasts until nine.

So realistically we are looking at drafting Baluga or McClain which are both fantastic picks so we shouldn't complain.

[TacklingDummy]

If Ryan, Flacco, and now Sanchez hadnt had such early success, Id disagree, but the thought is intriguing.



Manning, Manning, Rothlsiberger, McNabb, Kelly, Marino, Elway, etc...either a QB has it or they don't. There's no reason for a rookie QB not to see significant amount of playing time his first year especially when the team he's on isn't going anywhere.

[kernowboy]

Fine Start him day 1 I would rather that happen.

The above makes NO SENSE to me personally. We are in agreement that no QB currently in college is any better than Clausen or Bradford. We have no crystal ball to see if any will improve next year.

Why wouldn't we get one of the two if given the chance and have them start their growth process immediately? College teaches a player nothing about the NFL.

Being in hospital or on IR teaches a player nothing about being a QB in the league either

[THATHURMANATOR]

Sadly, I don't think Bradford lasts until nine.

So realistically we are looking at drafting Baluga or McClain which are both fantastic picks so we shouldn't complain.
What about Clausen? DB thinks pick 26.

Fine if they are BOTH gone go LT or LB. I would be fine with that as I realize it is a need, but I will be dissapointed.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Being in hospital or on IR teaches a player nothing about being a QB in the league either
Why would this happen?

[mayotm]

Everybody has an opinion on what the Bills should do with their first pick, but they have so many needs. In my mind, they could go QB, LT, LB, DE or DT with their first pick and you couldn't state it doesn't fill a need.

[X-Era]

If this is the case why not start with the BY FAR most important position on the field?

I see the logic in it, but if its a multi-year process, I don't think we should reach for a QB at 9 when we also have other needs and prospects who could fill them and are also worthy of the pick.

Do I think Bradford is worthy of the 9 pick? Yes. Clausen? Maybe, but only if he continues to impress in the combine, pro-day, and individual workouts.

My take is that if Bradford drops, and we think he isnt a durability concern, we should take him. Clausen, I cant give my opinion yet on him, I think we need to hear more of the story with him still.

[BillsMan80]

Because we have far too many needs not to have our 1st rounder start from Day1

We had that occur this season gone.

We need to draft a Day1 starter as our starting lineup has too many holes to have our draft pick ride the pine for the season.

In that scenario, why not have our future guy at QB gain another years experience in college and draft him next year, being able to start him from Day1 behind proper protection?

Unless fans are complete homers for Clausen and Bradford there is no reason to think the 2011 prospects won't step up and be at the level of these two by next year.

Lets not forget Bradford hasn't even played for several months so all we have is his sophmore record to go on

Unless Nix is a senile imbecile there is no way he will draft his first R1 pick with the intention not to play him, or stick him behind our current line

It was he who said
"If they're good enough, they'll have a chance to be here ... It's hard to throw when you're lying on your back"

My case for a QB stands with the issue that we have too many needs to not pick a starter this year...this team is going to be god awful this upcoming season. To be quite frank, I don't think it is going to help this team one iota if you take McClain or a Left Tackle over a Quarterback. Just how much can one rookie truly do in terms of making a difference. We are not going to the playoffs next year, nor do we have any shot to contend. So we win one more game if we take a LT than if we don't take one. This is a total rebuilding project, and quite frankly the class of 2011 QBs haven't proven much on the college level let alone the pro level. So we are going to be banking on a one-year wonder at QB to turn the ship around. Good luck with that. The problem here is that there is no foundation to build so it doesn't hurt to not take a LT this year.

[TacklingDummy]

Teams that are good for a period of time are built around a QB. They are not built around a LT or LB.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Everybody has an opinion on what the Bills should do with their first pick, but they have so many needs. In my mind, they could go QB, LT, LB, DE or DT with their first pick and you couldn't state it doesn't fill a need.
Again with this assesment it seems like a NO BRAINER to fill the most important position with the highest and best pick.

[X-Era]

Manning, Manning, Rothlsiberger, McNabb, Kelly, Marino, Elway, etc...either a QB has it or they don't. There's no reason for a rookie QB not to see significant amount of playing time his first year especially when the team he's on isn't going anywhere.

I meant that we could even see early returns from the rook, Peyton and Troy went 3 and 13 there first years, cant remember on the rest.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Teams that are good for a period of time are built around a QB. They are not built around a LT or LB.
This is 100% fact.

[mayotm]

Teams that are good for a period of time are built around a QB. They are not built around a LT or LB.Agreed to an extent, but are Bradford and Clausen good enough to build a team around?

[THATHURMANATOR]

I see the logic in it, but if its a multi-year process, I don't think we should reach for a QB at 9 when we also have other needs and prospects who could fill them and are also worthy of the pick.

Do I think Bradford is worthy of the 9 pick? Yes. Clausen? Maybe, but only if he continues to impress in the combine, pro-day, and individual workouts.

My take is that if Bradford drops, and we think he isnt a durability concern, we should take him. Clausen, I cant give my opinion yet on him, I think we need to hear more of the story with him still.
I don't in any way see Bradford or Clausen as reaches at 9. Any other QB yes. I am only talking about these two specifically.

Again this whole thread will probably be for naught when both are gone by pick 9 come draft day.

[TacklingDummy]

I meant that we could even see early returns from the rook, Peyton and Troy went 3 and 13 there first years, cant remember on the rest.

Im just saying that people that say a rookie can sit for a year and learn on the bench is such :bs: There is no reason a rookie QB can't start from day 1. Many great QB's have done it. I think if you go back and look at good QB's that the trend is they start from day 1.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Agreed to an extent, but are Bradford and Clausen good enough to build a team around?
I believe they are.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Im just saying that people that say a rookie can sit or a year and learn on the bench is such :bs: There is no reason a rookie QB can't start from day 1. Many great QB's have done it. I think if you go back and look at good QB's that the trend is they start from day 1.
:bf1:
Many with lines as bad or worse than our current situation.

[SABURZFAN]

Teams that are good for a period of time are built around a QB. They are not built around a LT or LB.


a good QB can beat Navy too. unfortunately, Clausen can't.

[TacklingDummy]

Agreed to an extent, but are Bradford and Clausen good enough to build a team around?
If the Bills pick them? Hopefully. We won't find out until hindsight kicks in in a few years.

If GM's knew Marino, Brady, Montana etc...were going to be such good QB's wouldn't they have drafted them higher? No one knows right now how good/bad Clausen or Bradford will be as pros. Maybe they are busts, maybe they'll be great.

[kernowboy]

My case for a QB stands with the issue that we have too many needs to not pick a starter this year...this team is going to be god awful this upcoming season. To be quite frank, I don't think it is going to help this team one iota if you take McClain or a Left Tackle over a Quarterback. Just how much can one rookie truly do in terms of making a difference. We are not going to the playoffs next year, nor do we have any shot to contend. So we win one more game if we take a LT than if we don't take one. This is a total rebuilding project, and quite frankly the class of 2011 QBs haven't proven much on the college level let alone the pro level. So we are going to be banking on a one-year wonder at QB to turn the ship around. Good luck with that. The problem here is that there is no foundation to build so it doesn't hurt to not take a LT this year.

My problem with a QB is that there will be clamour for them to start from Day1, and they will have any confidence beaten out of them by having a joke of a LT protecting them.

This is a total rebuilding job, so you start with the foundations.

If you look at the likes of Brady, Manning, McNabb, Brees etc they had the opportunity to join or start for a team where there was an experienced and established left tackle guarding their blindside.

If we look at QBs who have badly suffered, this has often been because they have been exposed early.

Bradford hasn't done anything since his sophmore year, Clausen is pretty much a one season wonder so what's the difference?

Many fans were thinking that Locker could be a Top5 pick and now he'll have another years experience in college. Some were talking of Devlin as a solid 2nd rounder after a solid season starting and both these guys will likely be in the draft with two solid season. Mallett had a solid sophmore season, and after his junior season will have as much if not more experience than the guys fans are clamouring for. Hell Andrew Luck will have had as much experience as Bradford is he comes out two years early.

[X-Era]

:bf1:
Many with lines as bad or worse than our current situation.

I cant go that far Thurm. You cant consistently run and have time to throw behind our OL, IMO and without that you cant be a long term winner.

[Bill Cody]

Again with this assesment it seems like a NO BRAINER to fill the most important position with the highest and best pick.

How many top ten QB busts have there been? A TON. What we CANNOT do is swing and miss with yet ANOTHER early pick. I'm not convinced Clausen or bradford is a franchise QB. But what the hell do I know? Of course i say that every year and every year I feel damn confident with a draft guide and a six pack I could do better than the Bills have in the past decade.

[THATHURMANATOR]

My problem with a QB is that there will be clamour for them to start from Day1, and they will have any confidence beaten out of them by having a joke of a LT protecting them.

This is a total rebuilding job, so you start with the foundations.

If you look at the likes of Brady, Manning, McNabb, Brees etc they had the opportunity to join or start for a team where there was an experienced and established left tackle guarding their blindside.

If we look at QBs who have badly suffered, this has often been because they have been exposed early.

Bradford hasn't done anything since his sophmore year, Clausen is pretty much a one season wonder so what's the difference?

Many fans were thinking that Locker could be a Top5 pick and now he'll have another years experience in college. Some were talking of Devlin as a solid 2nd rounder after a solid season starting and both these guys will likely be in the draft with two solid season. Mallett had a solid sophmore season, and after his junior season will have as much if not more experience than the guys fans are clamouring for. Hell Andrew Luck will have had as much experience as Bradford is he comes out two years early.
Ask Ingtar about Locker. According to him he would have to get a brain transplant to have a chance at being an NFL star.
Mallet is a giant with a cannon who can't hit the broad side of a barn.
Devlin??? Who the hell knows with him.

[X-Era]

a good QB can beat Navy too. unfortunately, Clausen can't.

One game?

I dont think we can pick and choose like that.

Does that also mean that Clausen is better than Locker because "he" beat Wash?

[THATHURMANATOR]

How many top ten QB busts have there been? A TON. What we CANNOT do is swing and miss with yet ANOTHER early pick. I'm not convinced Clausen or bradford is a franchise QB. But what the hell do I know? Of course i say that every year and every year I feel damn confident with a draft guide and a six pack I could do better than the Bills have in the past decade.
Ok with this logic how many swing and misses HAVE THE BILLS HAD at LT in the last 10 years.

[SABURZFAN]

One game?

I dont think we can pick and choose like that.

Does that also mean that Clausen is better than Locker because "he" beat Wash?


who has Notre Dame beaten in BIG games with Clausen?

[X-Era]

My problem with a QB is that there will be clamour for them to start from Day1, and they will have any confidence beaten out of them by having a joke of a LT protecting them.

This is a total rebuilding job, so you start with the foundations.

If you look at the likes of Brady, Manning, McNabb, Brees etc they had the opportunity to join or start for a team where there was an experienced and established left tackle guarding their blindside.

If we look at QBs who have badly suffered, this has often been because they have been exposed early.

Bradford hasn't done anything since his sophmore year, Clausen is pretty much a one season wonder so what's the difference?

Many fans were thinking that Locker could be a Top5 pick and now he'll have another years experience in college. Some were talking of Devlin as a solid 2nd rounder after a solid season starting and both these guys will likely be in the draft with two solid season. Mallett had a solid sophmore season, and after his junior season will have as much if not more experience than the guys fans are clamouring for. Hell Andrew Luck will have had as much experience as Bradford is he comes out two years early.

McNeil came after Brees... just sayin. I could be wrong, but I dont think they had a stud LT before McNeil.

[TacklingDummy]

This is a total rebuilding job, so you start with the foundations.


Name 2 teams that were good for a long period of time who didn't have a good QB.

I can name many teams that have been good for long periods of time who had good QBs. Good teams start and end with good QB play. Until the Bills find one they will always be rebuilding.

[X-Era]

who has Notre Dame beaten in BIG games with Clausen?

Mich St, Purdue, BC

[SABURZFAN]

Mich St, Purdue, BC


and what were their records?

[X-Era]

Ok with this logic how many swing and misses HAVE THE BILLS HAD at LT in the last 10 years.

10 years? 1, Mike Williams. They hit on UDFA Jason Peters.

[TacklingDummy]

How many top ten QB busts have there been? A TON.
How many 1st round QB's been to the Super Bowl vs. 1st round LT's? A TON.

[X-Era]

and what were their records?

They beat weak teams, I agree. They lost against both ranked teams USC and Pitt.

But Washington is even worse, yet many consider Locker the top QB next year and maybe even the #1 overall pick.

I don't think we can link team results to a QB's potential as a pro... at least not consistently.

[kernowboy]

McNeil came after Brees... just sayin. I could be wrong, but I dont think they had a stud LT before McNeil.

The Chargers had Damion McIntosh for the first four years of Brees career and he was regarded as a solid LT

He actually was drafted the year before Brees - he was part of the line who helped Tomlinson run for over 1,200yds as a rookie

[X-Era]

How many 1st round QB's been to the Super Bowl vs. 1st round LT's? A TON.

For a while there it was:

Tarik Glenn
Walter Jones
Orlando Pace
Johnathan Ogden
Tra Thomas

and even Matt Light... who I think I saw is also a FA this year.

It helps to have a good LT IMO.

Make it easy I want both.

[TacklingDummy]

How many 1st round QB's been to the Super Bowl vs. 1st round LT's? A TON.

Let's look at this year.

QB's: Manning 1st round, Brees 1st pick in 2nd round.

LT: Charlie Johnson: 6th round, Jermon Bushrod 4th round.

Last years Super Bowl starting LT: Mike Gandy 3rd round, Max Starks 3rd round.

[kernowboy]

10 years? 1, Mike Williams. They hit on UDFA Jason Peters.

and Williams was a RT.

I bet as many LTs have been to the SB as QB who've been drafted in the 1st round.

I don't think there is any doubt of the importance of LTs to teams considering the numbers of LT who have ridden higher in the draft than expected compared to QBs who have slid.

Most GMs realise a QB without adequate protection is as useful as a chocolate teapot

[SABURZFAN]

They beat weak teams, I agree. They lost against both ranked teams USC and Pitt.

But Washington is even worse, yet many consider Locker the top QB next year and maybe even the #1 overall pick.

I don't think we can link team results to a QB's potential as a pro... at least not consistently.


Michigan St and Perdue were middle of the pack in an overrated conference. BC finishes 5-5 if you take out the 3 cupcakes in their schedule. Clausen should have had a field day against Navy. to me, Clausen is overrated and should be nowhere near the 9th pick in this draft.

[X-Era]

The Chargers had Damion McIntosh for the first four years of Brees career and he was regarded as a solid LT

He actually was drafted the year before Brees - he was part of the line who helped Tomlinson run for over 1,200yds as a rookie

McIntosh, while solid at that point, has never been dominant, and wasnt a first rounder, nor was he the exclusive reason that LT went for all those yards.

I agree that LT is very important, but just as we should underestimate what a great LT can do, we shouldnt overestimate either.

Its 1 of 5 starting OL-men, and a guy that usually protects a QB's blindside.

[Dicknoze69]

and Williams was a RT.

I bet as many LTs have been to the SB as QB who've been drafted in the 1st round.

I don't think there is any doubt of the importance of LTs to teams considering the numbers of LT who have ridden higher in the draft than expected compared to QBs who have slid.

Most GMs realise a QB without adequate protection is as useful as a chocolate teapot

We drafted Williams to be a Left Tackle. A good number draft analysts weren't sure he could play there, but that was the idea at the time. Obviously, it was a giant miss on both playing LT and playing in the NFL in general.

[X-Era]

and Williams was a RT.

I bet as many LTs have been to the SB as QB who've been drafted in the 1st round.

I don't think there is any doubt of the importance of LTs to teams considering the numbers of LT who have ridden higher in the draft than expected compared to QBs who have slid.

Most GMs realise a QB without adequate protection is as useful as a chocolate teapot

He was supposedly able to play LT :rolleyes:

How about we trade back up into late round 1 and get a LT after taking Bradford or Clausen at 9?

Get both? Trading back up into round 1 appears to be our style.

[SABURZFAN]

I agree that LT is very important, but just as we should underestimate what a great LT can do, we shouldnt overestimate either.



the same thing can be said about QB's as well.

[SABURZFAN]

How about we trade back up into late round 1 and get a LT after taking Bradford or Clausen at 9?

Get both? Trading back up into round 1 appears to be our style.




no thanks.

[kernowboy]

Let's look at this year.

QB's: Manning 1st round, Brees 1st pick in 2nd round.

LT: Charlie Johnson: 6th round, Jermon Bushrod 4th round.

TD - how much experience to Manning and Brees have by this year?

Manning has 11years experience, Brees had 9 years experience.

TD - how long have Johnson and Bushrod been in the league?

Both have been in the league for 3 years before starting.

It is 120% completely different sticking an inexpeirenced rookie QB behind an inexperienced LT like Bell.

Both Manning and Brees are able to use their experience, ability to quickly read defences and quick release developed over many years in the pros - a rookie QB with zero pro starts does not have a single one of these advantages.

Why not help him with his suicide note as well?

[X-Era]

Michigan St and Perdue were middle of the pack in an overrated conference. BC finishes 5-5 if you take out the 3 cupcakes in their schedule. Clausen should have had a field day against Navy. to me, Clausen is overrated and should be nowhere near the 9th pick in this draft.

Navy was no push over:

http://espn.go.com/ncf/teams/schedule?teamId=2426

They did more with there easy schedule than ND did, including a close loss to Oh St.

[X-Era]

the same thing can be said about QB's as well.

:clap:

[SABURZFAN]

Navy was no push over:

http://espn.go.com/ncf/teams/schedule?teamId=2426

They did more with there easy schedule than ND did, including a close loss to Oh St.


and they did it without an overrated QB too.

[X-Era]

no thanks.
Why hang on to the next Reggie Corner, Jimmy Williams, or Alvin Bowen like they are gold when we could use it to move up for one of our main needs?

Scouts Inc has Campbell at 24, and Bulaga at 27... not saying it will stay that way, only that in the 20's we may get a very good looking prospect to play LT.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft

[THATHURMANATOR]

10 years? 1, Mike Williams. They hit on UDFA Jason Peters.
Yeah 0 for 1.

[Typ0]

I think it comes down to who they think has the best chance of being successful not positional need. We definately need a QB and LT.

[SABURZFAN]

:clap:


so why are you overestimating Clausen? he's not that good.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I just will be sick to my stomach if the Bills pussy out and don't go for the most important need if one of the 2 is on the board.

[kernowboy]

Why hang on to the next Reggie Corner, Jimmy Williams, or Alvin Bowen like they are gold when we could use it to move up for one of our main needs?

Scouts Inc has Campbell at 24, and Bulaga at 27... not saying it will stay that way, only that in the 20's we may get a very good looking prospect to play LT.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft

In the last few drafts it seems that LTs have gone higher than anticipated especially in 2008.

With so many teams needing LTs, there could easily be a run on LTs to the point if we don't take one at 9, we simply won't get one period

[X-Era]

so why are you overestimating Clausen? he's not that good.

Link?

I said Im not sure that hes worth the 9 pick... that he only may be.

[SABURZFAN]

Why hang on to the next Reggie Corner, Jimmy Williams, or Alvin Bowen like they are gold when we could use it to move up for one of our main needs?

Scouts Inc has Campbell at 24, and Bulaga at 27... not saying it will stay that way, only that in the 20's we may get a very good looking prospect to play LT.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft


trading away draft picks got the Bills in the situation they are in for the last 6 years. see Lossman and McCargo. doing that forces the Bills to keep the likes of Corner, Williams, and Bowen.

[SABURZFAN]

Link?

I said Im not sure that hes worth the 9 pick... that he only may be.


see post #156. evidently, you think he's worth the #9 pick overall.

[X-Era]

In the last few drafts it seems that LTs have gone higher than anticipated especially in 2008.

With so many teams needing LTs, there could easily be a run on LTs to the point if we don't take one at 9, we simply won't get one period

Its possible, but it easily couldnt not go that way too.

For example, last year 4 went in round 1.

That means 4 out of the following would be gone, which still leaves options.

Okung
Campbell
Bulaga
Capers
Brown
Williams
Davis

[X-Era]

see post #156. evidently, you think he's worth the #9 pick overall.

I guess you could read that from what I said.

Lets try again.

If Clausen is dubbed worthy of pick 9, trading up for a LT back into late 1 might be a good option.

If Clausen will drop to 20's, maybe take a LT first and then move up to the 20's to get Clausen.

I want both as soon as possible.

But all of that assumes Clausen is a guy who the Bills think would work in Buffalo, Im not convinced of that yet.

[SABURZFAN]

I guess you could read that from what I said.

Lets try again.

If Clausen is dubbed worthy of pick 9, trading up for a LT back into late 1 might be a good option.

If Clausen will drop to 20's, maybe take a LT first and then move up to the 20's to get Clausen.

I want both as soon as possible.

But all of that assumes Clausen is a guy who the Bills think would work in Buffalo, Im not convinced of that yet.


fair enough....

[kernowboy]

Its possible, but it easily couldnt not go that way too.

For example, last year 4 went in round 1.

That means 4 out of the following would be gone, which still leaves options.

Okung
Campbell
Bulaga
Capers
Brown
Williams
Davis

In 2008, 8 OTs went including 6 LTs - Long, Clady, Williams, Albert, Baker and Brown

Looking at the teams with a clear need to draft a LT, they have the possibility of 17 picks to make this choice before the Bills pick again in the 2nd

[X-Era]

In 2008, 8 OTs went including 6 LTs - Long, Clady, Williams, Albert, Baker and Brown

Looking at the teams with a clear need to draft a LT, they have the possibility of 17 picks to make this choice before the Bills pick again in the 2nd

Who's on your list for the 17 picks? Im interested.

[SABURZFAN]

In 2008, 8 OTs went including 6 LTs - Long, Clady, Williams, Albert, Baker and Brown

Looking at the teams with a clear need to draft a LT, they have the possibility of 17 picks to make this choice before the Bills pick again in the 2nd


they would have to pick the right one because all 17 aren't going to be starting.

[TacklingDummy]

an

I bet as many LTs have been to the SB as QB who've been drafted in the 1st round.


I'll take that bet.
The past 6 Super Bowls have had 6 1st round QBs and 2 1st round Tackles.

[kernowboy]

they would have to pick the right one because all 17 aren't going to be starting.

What I mean is from the start of the draft, teams with a need for a LT have 17 chances to draft a LT before we pick in the 2nd round

For example.

Washington need a LT. Even if they don't take one of them at No4, they still pick ahead of us in R2, so even if a LT slides, they get two bites of the cherry.

Seattle have 3 chances to pick an LT

Oakland have 2 chances.

The 49ers have two chances and could move Staley back to RT

The Packers need a LT

The Cowboys need a LT

etc etc

[BillsMan80]

My problem with a QB is that there will be clamour for them to start from Day1, and they will have any confidence beaten out of them by having a joke of a LT protecting them.

This is a total rebuilding job, so you start with the foundations.

If you look at the likes of Brady, Manning, McNabb, Brees etc they had the opportunity to join or start for a team where there was an experienced and established left tackle guarding their blindside.

If we look at QBs who have badly suffered, this has often been because they have been exposed early.

Bradford hasn't done anything since his sophmore year, Clausen is pretty much a one season wonder so what's the difference?

Many fans were thinking that Locker could be a Top5 pick and now he'll have another years experience in college. Some were talking of Devlin as a solid 2nd rounder after a solid season starting and both these guys will likely be in the draft with two solid season. Mallett had a solid sophmore season, and after his junior season will have as much if not more experience than the guys fans are clamouring for. Hell Andrew Luck will have had as much experience as Bradford is he comes out two years early.

And as is the quote by sports executives regarding the clamor by fans to start a rookie QB, the moment you start listening to the fans is the moment you will be joining them.

[kernowboy]

I'll take that bet.
The past 6 Super Bowls have had 6 1st round QBs and 2 1st round Tackles.

2009 Roethisberger QB (Steelers), Brown OT (Cardinals)
2008 Manning QB (Giants)
2007 Manning (Colts) and Grossman (Bears) QB, Glenn (Colts) and Tait (Bears)
2006 Roethlisberger QB (Steelers), Jones OT (Seahawks)
2005 McNabb (Eagles) QB, Thomas OT (Eagles)
2004 Steuisse and Gross OT (Panthers)

Thats 6 QBs who were original R1 picks and 7 OTs who were orginal R1 picks. Even discounting FAs thats still only 6 v 5

Still want to take that bet?

[X-Era]

What I mean is from the start of the draft, teams with a need for a LT have 17 chances to draft a LT before we pick in the 2nd round

For example.

Washington need a LT. Even if they don't take one of them at No4, they still pick ahead of us in R2, so even if a LT slides, they get two bites of the cherry.

Seattle have 3 chances to pick an LT

Oakland have 2 chances.

The 49ers have two chances and could move Staley back to RT

The Packers need a LT

The Cowboys need a LT

etc etc

All have other needs as well.

Teams that needed a QB passed on Quinn

[THATHURMANATOR]

2009 Roethisberger QB (Steelers), Brown OT (Cardinals)
2008 Manning QB (Giants)
2007 Manning (Colts) and Grossman (Bears) QB, Glenn (Colts) and Tait (Bears)
2006 Roethlisberger QB (Steelers), Jones OT (Seahawks)
2005 McNabb (Eagles) QB, Thomas OT (Eagles)
2004 Steuisse and Gross OT (Panthers)

Thats 6 QBs who were original R1 picks and 7 OTs who were orginal R1 picks. Even discounting FAs thats still only 6 v 5

Still want to take that bet?
Wasn't Mike Gandy Starting at LT last year for the Cardinals?

Who cares about RTs. We don't need one.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Guys the bottom line is that No pick is safe.

We wouldn't be reaching on Clausen or Bradford.

They could as easily be a bust as Okung or Campbell.

Why not choose the more important position?

[TacklingDummy]

2009 Roethisberger QB (Steelers), Brown OT (Cardinals)
2008 Manning QB (Giants)
2007 Manning (Colts) and Grossman (Bears) QB, Glenn (Colts) and Tait (Bears)
2006 Roethlisberger QB (Steelers), Jones OT (Seahawks)
2005 McNabb (Eagles) QB, Thomas OT (Eagles)
2004 Steuisse and Gross OT (Panthers)

Thats 6 QBs who were original R1 picks and 7 OTs who were orginal R1 picks. Even discounting FAs thats still only 6 v 5

Still want to take that bet?

Left Tackles, which was 2, thanks for playing.

[kernowboy]

Guys the bottom line is that No pick is safe.

We wouldn't be reaching on Clausen or Bradford.

They could as easily be a bust as Okung or Campbell.

Why not choose the more important position?

So you're now onboard with the LT then?

[THATHURMANATOR]

So you're now onboard with the LT then?
If Clausen and Bradford are off the board absolutely.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Left Tackles, which was 2, thanks for playing.
:bf1:

[kernowboy]

Left Tackles, which was 2, thanks for playing.

Todd Steuisse LT (Gross was RT)
John Tait LT (Miller was RT)
Tra Thomas LT (Runyan was RT)
Walter Jones LT (Lockler was RT)
Tarik Glenn LT (Diem was RT)

Two - learn to count, its actually 5 - if you don't count free agents who were original R1 picks it is still 3 - would you like to know the years they were drafted in the first round?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Kerno I think we get it. You want a LT in round 1. I can't say that getting an LT isn't a good idea, but we differ in the fact that I would like to fill the most important position on the field by 10x first.

No need to keep going back and forth on this.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I am leaving for home now.

I clearly won this argument today, but fellas thanks for participating.

You made some good points but in the end fell short....

[Bill Cody]

Ok with this logic how many swing and misses HAVE THE BILLS HAD at LT in the last 10 years.

No I'm talking about swings and misses period. That's pretty much what we do. Hell I'd rather have a HOF kicker at 10 than draft JP Losman II. You only get to check the box as "problem solved" if the guy you pick really is the guy. I'm tired of taking fliers. I want the Bills to pick the guy that they can most confidently say "so and so will be a Pro Bowl player for us for the next decade". If that's a QB, bonus. If it ain't so be it. Just no more bustoleums please.:help!:

[TacklingDummy]

Todd Steuisse LT (Gross was RT)
John Tait LT (Miller was RT)
Tra Thomas LT (Runyan was RT)
Walter Jones LT (Lockler was RT)
Tarik Glenn LT (Diem was RT)

Two - learn to count, its actually 5 - if you don't count free agents who were original R1 picks it is still 3 - would you like to know the years they were drafted in the first round?

Steuisse doesn't fall in the 6 year period I was talking about. So the number is 6 to 4.

Ok I counted QBs, out of the 44 Super Bowls there's been 43 QB's drafted in the first round. Go ahead and count the left tackles.

[SeatownBillsFan21]

I would take Bradford at 9 if he is there

[X-Era]

I would take Bradford at 9 if he is there

I would too, but I really dont think he will be.

[Typ0]

Why not choose the more important position?


As I said earlier. You don't choose the more important position because you think a guy in the other position has a better chance at success. You HAVE to draft this way or might as well throw your scouts to the curb and listen to the media. Not saying position isn't important because it does play a role but you still go with the guys you think are going to fit in with what you need and be successful most.

The QB position being so important is just more reason not to rely on the draft to get our starter next year. If you are going to go for a guy in the draft at QB he's got to be someone you believe in not someone that might fill the role for you. We'd be better off waiting until that guy came along and getting vets to fill the void in the mean time.

[TacklingDummy]

The QB position being so important is just more reason not to rely on the draft to get our starter next year. If you are going to go for a guy in the draft at QB he's got to be someone you believe in not someone that might fill the role for you. We'd be better off waiting until that guy came along and getting vets to fill the void in the mean time.
The problem with this way of thinking is that the QB may never come along. There's always doubts about every QB before the draft. Some times you just have to take a chance.

[Typ0]

The problem with this way of thinking is that the QB may never come along. There's always doubts about every QB before the draft. Some times you just have to take a chance.


I don't think so. It's pretty clear the guys we've gotten we've settled for. That's the chance you are talking about and it's been a waste. If you can't get the guy you want then you wait or you screw yourself.

[TacklingDummy]

I don't think so. It's pretty clear the guys we've gotten we've settled for. That's the chance you are talking about and it's been a waste. If you can't get the guy you want then you wait or you screw yourself.
There's a lot of other guys I would have settled on over Lynch, McFumbles, Whitner, and Maybin.
Revis, DRC, Chris Johnson, Ryan Clady, Mike Jenkins, Ngata, Orakpo, Cushings, Oher, to name a few.

[Typ0]

There's a lot of other guys I would have settled on over Lynch, McFumbles, Whitner, and Maybin.
Revis, DRC, Chris Johnson, Ryan Clady, Mike Jenkins, Ngata, Orakpo, Cushings, Oher, to name a few.


I thought we were talking about QBs. None of those guys are QBs.

[Ground Chuck]

You don't want to pay a tackle #9 money. Remember Mike Williams, guys?

If Bradford is there, pull the trigger. I'm on the fence with Clausen.

[dhasek00]

This is my first post here but I was reading over this and wanted to add something. Remember that Jason Peters was by no means intended to be a top notch tackle. As far as I remember, he wasn't even drafted. However we were able to develop him into one of the premier tackles of the league. I realize he flipped out about his contract but we still taught a guy how to block at the toughest guarding position.

Now on to a QB. I have a strong opinion about them. They have to be great leaders above anything else. If a guy has throwing motion problems or technique problems that's one thing. That can be taught (Just as an an drafted TE can be taught to play tackle), but you can't teach leadership, which this team has lacked for well over a decade. If we are to interview Clausen or Bradford and they show a ****y, "I'm gonna lead this team to glory" attitude, I want them no matter what.

In my opinion, a line will get a lot of boost to WANT to block a guy who is an obvious leader. If you guys like the Jets and want to model them, you have to keep in mind that their line has been together for a few years now. They were even together before Favre got there and they were... horrid! I believe they finished 4-12 that year. When Brett Favre came in, they exploded to a 9-7 (again, in 1 year). No one could convince me otherwise that when a capable QB came in for them under center, that they changed and learned a lot from Favre. He must have been in their faces during practices telling them exactly what a professional line looks like, because that same line in 2007 had a ? at QB all year and it showed.

If anyone watched the Colts game this weekend, they mentioned for a few minutes how Peyton, too, had some ? coming into the draft. When they went out to see this kid, Polian changed his mind. Then, when Manning came into the interview, he, instead of Polian ended up doing the interviewing. Peyton came in with a legal pad full of questions to ask about the franchise. That! is the kind of guy I want us to draft. I want a smart, ****y, gunslinger who is willing to take this team on their shoulder. I am willing to take that chance on someone like that if Sammy or Jimmy have it. I am willing to shape a guy who might have some throwing flaws, because those are easy to fix for a guy who wants to win. Peyton happens to be the hardest worker in the league. If we get a QB who even works half as hard as Manning to improve, he will get much better. But again, I have to stress, you cannot teach someone how to be a leader.

Bring a guy here under center who is going unite this team and put the Bills back on the map. If we're going to define ourselves, get some good teachers on the sidelines and develop some blockers who don't need to be taught how to lead (because it's impossible). In the draft, go find our face... our identity, for the next decade. I think we will benefit from taking a QB with #9.

Sorry for my 1st post that exceeded some of your attention spans lol

[THATHURMANATOR]

This is my first post here but I was reading over this and wanted to add something. Remember that Jason Peters was by no means intended to be a top notch tackle. As far as I remember, he wasn't even drafted. However we were able to develop him into one of the premier tackles of the league. I realize he flipped out about his contract but we still taught a guy how to block at the toughest guarding position.

Now on to a QB. I have a strong opinion about them. They have to be great leaders above anything else. If a guy has throwing motion problems or technique problems that's one thing. That can be taught (Just as an an drafted TE can be taught to play tackle), but you can't teach leadership, which this team has lacked for well over a decade. If we are to interview Clausen or Bradford and they show a ****y, "I'm gonna lead this team to glory" attitude, I want them no matter what.

In my opinion, a line will get a lot of boost to WANT to block a guy who is an obvious leader. If you guys like the Jets and want to model them, you have to keep in mind that their line has been together for a few years now. They were even together before Favre got there and they were... horrid! I believe they finished 4-12 that year. When Brett Favre came in, they exploded to a 9-7 (again, in 1 year). No one could convince me otherwise that when a capable QB came in for them under center, that they changed and learned a lot from Favre. He must have been in their faces during practices telling them exactly what a professional line looks like, because that same line in 2007 had a ? at QB all year and it showed.

If anyone watched the Colts game this weekend, they mentioned for a few minutes how Peyton, too, had some ? coming into the draft. When they went out to see this kid, Polian changed his mind. Then, when Manning came into the interview, he, instead of Polian ended up doing the interviewing. Peyton came in with a legal pad full of questions to ask about the franchise. That! is the kind of guy I want us to draft. I want a smart, ****y, gunslinger who is willing to take this team on their shoulder. I am willing to take that chance on someone like that if Sammy or Jimmy have it. I am willing to shape a guy who might have some throwing flaws, because those are easy to fix for a guy who wants to win. Peyton happens to be the hardest worker in the league. If we get a QB who even works half as hard as Manning to improve, he will get much better. But again, I have to stress, you cannot teach someone how to be a leader.

Bring a guy here under center who is going unite this team and put the Bills back on the map. If we're going to define ourselves, get some good teachers on the sidelines and develop some blockers who don't need to be taught how to lead (because it's impossible). In the draft, go find our face... our identity, for the next decade. I think we will benefit from taking a QB with #9.

Sorry for my 1st post that exceeded some of your attention spans lol
Great post! Welcome!

[Typ0]

Skills can be coached but talent can't. And I disagree with you about the ****y attitude = leadership. JP Lossman was the ****iest SOB ever he just could never get passed himself to actually learn anything. You need attitude but you better have the crap to back it up or get humbled really quick because no one is going to follow someone who is all talk and leads them into a ditch.

I'll reiterate the same thing I say over and over...I think this time of year it's time to put it in my sig: It's not about the position it's about the players available and how the people in the organization have those players rated.


This is my first post here but I was reading over this and wanted to add something. Remember that Jason Peters was by no means intended to be a top notch tackle. As far as I remember, he wasn't even drafted. However we were able to develop him into one of the premier tackles of the league. I realize he flipped out about his contracdierview Clausen or Bradford and they show a ****y, "I'm gonna lead this team to glory" attitude, I want them no matter what.

In my opinion, a line will get a lot of boost to WANT to block a guy who is an obvious leader. If you guys like the Jets and want to model them, you have to keep in mind that their line has been together for a few years now. They were even together before Favre got there and they were... horrid! I believe they finished 4-12 that year. When Brett Favre came in, they exploded to a 9-7 (again, in 1 year). No one could convince me otherwise that when a capable QB came in for them under center, that they changed and learned a lot from Favre. He must have been in their faces during practices telling them exactly what a professional line looks like, because that same line in 2007 had a ? at QB all year and it showed.

If anyone watched the Colts game this weekend, they mentioned for a few minutes how Peyton, too, had some ? coming into the draft. When they went out to see this kid, Polian changed his mind. Then, when Manning came into the interview, he, instead of Polian ended up doing the interviewing. Peyton came in with a legal pad full of questions to ask about the franchise. That! is the kind of guy I want us to draft. I want a smart, ****y, gunslinger who is willing to take this team on their shoulder. I am willing to take that chance on someone like that if Sammy or Jimmy have it. I am willing to shape a guy who might have some throwing flaws, because those are easy to fix for a guy who wants to win. Peyton happens to be the hardest worker in the league. If we get a QB who even works half as hard as Manning to improve, he will get much better. But again, I have to stress, you cannot teach someone how to be a leader.

Bring a guy here under center who is going unite this team and put the Bills back on the map. If we're going to define ourselves, get some good teachers on the sidelines and develop some blockers who don't need to be taught how to lead (because it's impossible). In the draft, go find our face... our identity, for the next decade. I think we will benefit from taking a QB with #9.

Sorry for my 1st post that exceeded some of your attention spans lol

[dhasek00]

That's specifically why I mentioned that the guy must have a good work ethic. JP had a good attitude for a quarterback that you could get behind. His problem was his unwillingness to adapt to the NFL. He didn't want to listen or work to get better.

[kernowboy]

This is my first post here but I was reading over this and wanted to add something. Remember that Jason Peters was by no means intended to be a top notch tackle. As far as I remember, he wasn't even drafted. However we were able to develop him into one of the premier tackles of the league. I realize he flipped out about his contract but we still taught a guy how to block at the toughest guarding position.

Now on to a QB. I have a strong opinion about them. They have to be great leaders above anything else. If a guy has throwing motion problems or technique problems that's one thing. That can be taught (Just as an an drafted TE can be taught to play tackle), but you can't teach leadership, which this team has lacked for well over a decade. If we are to interview Clausen or Bradford and they show a ****y, "I'm gonna lead this team to glory" attitude, I want them no matter what.

In my opinion, a line will get a lot of boost to WANT to block a guy who is an obvious leader. If you guys like the Jets and want to model them, you have to keep in mind that their line has been together for a few years now. They were even together before Favre got there and they were... horrid! I believe they finished 4-12 that year. When Brett Favre came in, they exploded to a 9-7 (again, in 1 year). No one could convince me otherwise that when a capable QB came in for them under center, that they changed and learned a lot from Favre. He must have been in their faces during practices telling them exactly what a professional line looks like, because that same line in 2007 had a ? at QB all year and it showed.

If anyone watched the Colts game this weekend, they mentioned for a few minutes how Peyton, too, had some ? coming into the draft. When they went out to see this kid, Polian changed his mind. Then, when Manning came into the interview, he, instead of Polian ended up doing the interviewing. Peyton came in with a legal pad full of questions to ask about the franchise. That! is the kind of guy I want us to draft. I want a smart, ****y, gunslinger who is willing to take this team on their shoulder. I am willing to take that chance on someone like that if Sammy or Jimmy have it. I am willing to shape a guy who might have some throwing flaws, because those are easy to fix for a guy who wants to win. Peyton happens to be the hardest worker in the league. If we get a QB who even works half as hard as Manning to improve, he will get much better. But again, I have to stress, you cannot teach someone how to be a leader.

Bring a guy here under center who is going unite this team and put the Bills back on the map. If we're going to define ourselves, get some good teachers on the sidelines and develop some blockers who don't need to be taught how to lead (because it's impossible). In the draft, go find our face... our identity, for the next decade. I think we will benefit from taking a QB with #9.

Sorry for my 1st post that exceeded some of your attention spans lol

However the biggest problem remains that we have no-one even remotely adequate guarding his blindside in his rookie season, so no matter his leadership skills, he will have all of the confidence beaten out of him and turn into Edwards Mk2

You rightly mention Manning, but fail to mention that the year before in 1997, Polian had drafted a franchise LT in Tarik Glenn. Manning was put in a situation where he was destined to succeed. I wonder how well he would have done if he'd spent his rookie season running for his life or getting sacked 5-6 times a game like David Carr was.

Interestingly when Carr has played behind a decent line in New York he's actually looked like a decent QB

[dhasek00]

You have a good point with the Manning LT draft, but I think we're in a different league now where those types of positions can be addressed in other ways rather than spending a #9 pick on it. Kids coming out of college are naturally bigger and more adapt at playing different positions. They learn faster than they have in the past. If we take an LT in the 2nd round even, I think we can develop him. If we flip flop that and take a QB in the 2nd round, I'm not sure that position has the same potential of "plugging in anyone and teaching him".

[kernowboy]

You have a good point with the Manning LT draft, but I think we're in a different league now where those types of positions can be addressed in other ways rather than spending a #9 pick on it. Kids coming out of college are naturally bigger and more adapt at playing different positions. They learn faster than they have in the past. If we take an LT in the 2nd round even, I think we can develop him. If we flip flop that and take a QB in the 2nd round, I'm not sure that position has the same potential of "plugging in anyone and teaching him".

I think that after QB - LT is the most crucial position.

Its easy to want to go 'cheap' at LT but usually in error. Look at how many LTs have gone in R1 in the last two drafts. I count it as 9.

A top LT can make an average QB look good.

A poor LT can make a promising and talented QB look awful

[SABURZFAN]

You don't want to pay a tackle #9 money. Remember Mike Williams, guys?

If Bradford is there, pull the trigger. I'm on the fence with Clausen.


another option would be to trade down, get another draft pick, and still get a quality need for the team.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I think that after QB - LT is the most crucial position.

Its easy to want to go 'cheap' at LT but usually in error. Look at how many LTs have gone in R1 in the last two drafts. I count it as 9.

A top LT can make an average QB look good.

A poor LT can make a promising and talented QB look awful
No After QB, CB is the most Crucial position.

A top LT can help an average QB look better (slightly I might add and only in the fact that he has more time)

A poor LT can make good QB look bad on a couple plays a game he gets beat badly.

A Good QB can make a terrible LT look like a probowler and lift an ENTIRE team. The same can NEVER be said about a Tackle.

[kernowboy]

No After QB, CB is the most Crucial position.

A top LT can help an average QB look better (slightly I might add and only in the fact that he has more time)

A poor LT can make good QB look bad on a couple plays a game he gets beat badly.

A Good QB can make a terrible LT look like a probowler and lift an ENTIRE team. The same can NEVER be said about a Tackle.

A couple of plays? Bell was getting beaten every other play or being called for penalties. And a couple of those plays could result in the QB going on IR

Clady as a rookie, gave up 0.5 sacks. Thats what we need.

[Philagape]

You don't want to pay a tackle #9 money. Remember Mike Williams, guys?

If Bradford is there, pull the trigger. I'm on the fence with Clausen.

Because there have never been top-10 QB busts!! :brilliant:

[kernowboy]

I'd want to get all the other pieces of the jigsaw in place and then in 2012 or 2013 but if we are very lucky 2011 draft this kid

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/293593-is-andrew-luck-the-most-sure-thing-nfl-qb-prospect-since-peyton-manning

We'd have our own Manning until 2022

[Bill Cody]

This is my first post here but I was reading over this and wanted to add something. Remember that Jason Peters was by no means intended to be a top notch tackle. As far as I remember, he wasn't even drafted. However we were able to develop him into one of the premier tackles of the league. I realize he flipped out about his contract but we still taught a guy how to block at the toughest guarding position.

Now on to a QB. I have a strong opinion about them. They have to be great leaders above anything else. If a guy has throwing motion problems or technique problems that's one thing. That can be taught (Just as an an drafted TE can be taught to play tackle), but you can't teach leadership, which this team has lacked for well over a decade. If we are to interview Clausen or Bradford and they show a ****y, "I'm gonna lead this team to glory" attitude, I want them no matter what.

In my opinion, a line will get a lot of boost to WANT to block a guy who is an obvious leader. If you guys like the Jets and want to model them, you have to keep in mind that their line has been together for a few years now. They were even together before Favre got there and they were... horrid! I believe they finished 4-12 that year. When Brett Favre came in, they exploded to a 9-7 (again, in 1 year). No one could convince me otherwise that when a capable QB came in for them under center, that they changed and learned a lot from Favre. He must have been in their faces during practices telling them exactly what a professional line looks like, because that same line in 2007 had a ? at QB all year and it showed.

If anyone watched the Colts game this weekend, they mentioned for a few minutes how Peyton, too, had some ? coming into the draft. When they went out to see this kid, Polian changed his mind. Then, when Manning came into the interview, he, instead of Polian ended up doing the interviewing. Peyton came in with a legal pad full of questions to ask about the franchise. That! is the kind of guy I want us to draft. I want a smart, ****y, gunslinger who is willing to take this team on their shoulder. I am willing to take that chance on someone like that if Sammy or Jimmy have it. I am willing to shape a guy who might have some throwing flaws, because those are easy to fix for a guy who wants to win. Peyton happens to be the hardest worker in the league. If we get a QB who even works half as hard as Manning to improve, he will get much better. But again, I have to stress, you cannot teach someone how to be a leader.

Bring a guy here under center who is going unite this team and put the Bills back on the map. If we're going to define ourselves, get some good teachers on the sidelines and develop some blockers who don't need to be taught how to lead (because it's impossible). In the draft, go find our face... our identity, for the next decade. I think we will benefit from taking a QB with #9.

Sorry for my 1st post that exceeded some of your attention spans lol

A couple things to note: the Jets used a top 3 pick on their LT. Peyton Manning's main ? was whether he'd go 1st or 2nd, he was always considered a top prospect. It all comes down to picking a player that can play. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. Jason Peters went undrafted. These things happen occassionally. The key point is picking winners, not reaching for mediocrity like we've been doing for 10 years.

[THATHURMANATOR]

We need a QB is the thing.

[Typ0]

That's what happens when you try and find the best QB you can get at the time you pick! If you just think with any logic it's pretty clear that not taking the best players you can get is going to deplete the talent on your team in the long-run assuming you can evaluate talent to begin with. If you, for instance, give up 20% performance to make positional picks in the long run you end up with 80% of the team you could have had talent wise. A team that takes 100% the talent they can get is going to end up with 100% of the team they could get and they will beat your ass.


A couple things to note: the Jets used a top 3 pick on their LT. Peyton Manning's main ? was whether he'd go 1st or 2nd, he was always considered a top prospect. It all comes down to picking a player that can play. Tom Brady was a 6th round pick. Jason Peters went undrafted. These things happen occassionally. The key point is picking winners, not reaching for mediocrity like we've been doing for 10 years.

[Typ0]

We need a QB is the thing.


you're right about that. It's your approach that is bad. Not saying it isn't wise to take a QB if the pick comes up and the guy we have rated top at that time is a QB (just want to be clear that in my method position is considered in the rankings too). However, if the guy we have rated at the top is DE and we take a QB whose 10 down the list because we need a QB that's pretty stupid IMO. There is other ways to fill in needs you are never going to build a good team through the draft if you don't trust your talent evaluators and draft the guys they think will give you the best value.

[THATHURMANATOR]

you're right about that. It's your approach that is bad. Not saying it isn't wise to take a QB if the pick comes up and the guy we have rated top at that time is a QB (just want to be clear that in my method position is considered in the rankings too). However, if the guy we have rated at the top is DE and we take a QB whose 10 down the list because we need a QB that's pretty stupid IMO. There is other ways to fill in needs you are never going to build a good team through the draft if you don't trust your talent evaluators and draft the guys they think will give you the best value.
No my approach is perfect. If Bradford or Clausen, Who are rated as top 10 QBs, are available we take them.

[Typ0]

No my approach is perfect. If Bradford or Clausen, Who are rated as top 10 QBs, are available we take them.


Rated as top 10 QBs by the media blow hards? Why the hell even have a scouting department then? Why do the coaches bother going to the combine and researching the players? Heck, they could just take your word for it! Not only that but what good is being a top 10 QB? 8 out of those guys won't even make it. If you could have a top 10 QB or a LT you have a great deal of confidence was going to be a long term high performer for you take the LT! Or a RB for that matter...

[THATHURMANATOR]

Rated as top 10 QBs by the media blow hards? Why the hell even have a scouting department then? Why do the coaches bother going to the combine and researching the players? Heck, they could just take your word for it! Not only that but what good is being a top 10 QB? 8 out of those guys won't even make it. If you could have a top 10 QB or a LT you have a great deal of confidence was going to be a long term high performer for you take the LT! Or a RB for that matter...
Ok I see what you are saying. If the Bill's scouting dept hates one or both of the QB's you are right.

[Typ0]

Ok I see what you are saying. If the Bill's scouting dept hates one or both of the QB's you are right.

They don't have to hate the guys just think another guy is a better value at the time. Then you take the guy you believe in more despite the need for a QB. We reached far and gave up the farm for JP because we needed a QB.

[THATHURMANATOR]

They don't have to hate the guys just think another guy is a better value at the time. Then you take the guy you believe in more despite the need for a QB. We reached far and gave up the farm for JP because we needed a QB.
Right and that is why I want them to grab one of the top tier QBs.

From every scouting report I read Bradford and Clausen are the top 2 much above the others and surely worth a pick at 9.

JP was a HORRIBLE pick . I remember exploding at my friends house when we picked him. JP was in the second tier though. It would be like if we drafted whoever at pick 9 then traded back into the first to pick, Pike, or Mckoy etc.

[SABURZFAN]

JP was a HORRIBLE pick . I remember exploding at my friends house when we picked him.


i shook my head for the rest of the day at the BZ party. :shakeno:

[THATHURMANATOR]

i shook my head for the rest of the day at the BZ party. :shakeno:
Yep. I did not want him at all.

I was sooooo hoping for Big Ben. I wanted him badly but the Stillers screwed us.

[Bill Cody]

post 225. So what do you guys think, do we draft a QB at 9?:handball:

[THATHURMANATOR]

post 225. So what do you guys think, do we draft a QB at 9?:handball:
Depends on who is available.

[BillsMan80]

I think the bottom line is regarding this, us QB advocates are saying if Bradford or Clausen ends up being there at 9, one of them or both, we need to take whichever one is sitting there. We aren't saying QB is a must with the 9th pick but what we are saying is if one of the clear top 2, top half first round value QBs are sitting there at 9 take him unless Suh is there (not happening). If they are both gone then sure there a number of different ways we can go, but don't pass up a top quarterback if you have the chance to draft one.

[Bill Cody]

Depends on who is available.

Ok I'm ready to climb on board Thurm. Give Nix a call. Tell him to draft Bradford or Clausen if either is still available. Glad we got that resolved.:list:

[kernowboy]

Ok I'm ready to climb on board Thurm. Give Nix a call. Tell him to draft Bradford or Clausen if either is still available. Glad we got that resolved.:list:

And the opposing view is this. Due to the poverty in Free Agency we will need to take a LT in the draft.

As our new GM has said, it is hard to make any throws when you are flat on your back!!!!!!!

People are deluding themselves if they think a starting LT will be available in R2 because so many teams need a LT ... count them

Detroit (maybe)
Washington
Oakland
BUFFALO
Seattle
Green Bay
Dallas
Indianapolis (maybe)
Arizona
San Francisco (who could switch Staley back to RT)

Both Bradford and Clausen have the can't miss tag and both come with serious concerns re: injuries and productivity in big names.

Bradford prospered behind an elite college line yet you want to throw someone just recovered from injury to his throwing arm behind a D- LT?

What we have seen is none of our QBs since Kelly have prospered because we have constantly failed to address pass protection issues - with a short exception under Peters.

Any R1 QB selection, risks going the way of Edwards, Losman, and all those before them.

A veteran FA pick up behind a top rookie LT, may well help in the development of that LT, to the point that if we draft a QB of the future in 2011 we can start him immediately behind an elite LT.

And whose to stay that Brian Brohm won't prosper behind better pass protection than that given to him by Andre Ramsey and Kris Chambers in his only start?

[Dying_-2-_Live]

Bradford, Bradford, Bradford... but Clausen wouldn't be bad at all

[kernowboy]

The situation reminds me of the 2004 and 2005 drafts but in reverse.

In 2004 there were 3 clear franchise QBs in Manning, Rivers and Roethinsberger (Schaub became a fourth) but the 2005 draft looked incredibly QB light so Donahoe panicked and grabbed Losman thinking he'd be better than anything in 2005.

Here we have two good QBs who currently have a lot of debate about whether they are really franchise types yet next year all the pundits agree the class of QBs is much much deeper. We risk taking one now and put into a losing position from the get go, rather than fix the rest of the roster and give a QB taken next year a chance of immediately taking us to the playoffs.

A veteran pick up or maybe even someone like Brohm behind a proper line can give us an 8-8 or 9-7 season by allowing him time as well as having him receive proper coaching and tuition. We put them in a position to succeed

A rookie QB running for his life if not flattened on every other play will give us a 3-13 or 4-12 season and maybe a broken investment. We put them in a position to fail.

Personally I chose a .500 season

[ddaryl]

Been researching Bradford at QB.

His shoulder situation scares me some. He also played in a spread O in College and rarely takes the snaps under center


He does appear to have all the throws needed. and throws a pretty pass on the run. BUT he throws just as pretty rolling to the opposite side of his throwing arm as he does rolling to the right, which to me is really IMPRESSIVE

Is he a china doll?, and how long will it take for him to embrace a pro O. His intagibles say he absorbs info quickly. The guy was a star at basketball and golf as well as football.

I guess my only real negative regarding Bradford is concerning the Shoulder, I think he can pick up a pro O quickly.

[kernowboy]

Been researching Bradford at QB.

His shoulder situation scares me some. He also played in a spread O in College and rarely takes the snaps under center


He does appear to have all the throws needed. and throws a pretty pass on the run. BUT he throws just as pretty rolling to the opposite side of his throwing arm as he does rolling to the right, which to me is really IMPRESSIVE

Is he a china doll?, and how long will it take for him to embrace a pro O. His intagibles say he absorbs info quickly. The guy was a star at basketball and golf as well as football.

I guess my only real negative regarding Bradford is concerning the Shoulder, I think he can pick up a pro O quickly.

but he also benefitted from playing behind a top OL which is something we cannot offer him

[kernowboy]

We should have taken Michael Oher at 11 last year and we risk the same sort of season if we continue to behave like the ostrich, a creature that believes it can solve its problems by burying its head in the sand

[BillsMan80]

The situation reminds me of the 2004 and 2005 drafts but in reverse.

In 2004 there were 3 clear franchise QBs in Manning, Rivers and Roethinsberger (Schaub became a fourth) but the 2005 draft looked incredibly QB light so Donahoe panicked and grabbed Losman thinking he'd be better than anything in 2005.

Here we have two good QBs who currently have a lot of debate about whether they are really franchise types yet next year all the pundits agree the class of QBs is much much deeper. We risk taking one now and put into a losing position from the get go, rather than fix the rest of the roster and give a QB taken next year a chance of immediately taking us to the playoffs.

A veteran pick up or maybe even someone like Brohm behind a proper line can give us an 8-8 or 9-7 season by allowing him time as well as having him receive proper coaching and tuition. We put them in a position to succeed

A rookie QB running for his life if not flattened on every other play will give us a 3-13 or 4-12 season and maybe a broken investment. We put them in a position to fail.

Personally I chose a .500 season

This team has 0 chance of being .500 next year with the current QBs on this roster as well as knowing the turds that are known as the free agent QB market. This team could have a line of Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Larry Allen, Alan Faneca, and Kevin Mawae and it wouldn't mean **** with Ryan Fitzpatrick or Trent Edwards.

This is a 3-5 win team whether this team has Sam Bradford or Jimmy Clausen under center of whomever gets trotted out on the OL, or whether it has Russell Okung, Anthony Davis, Bryan Bulaga, or Bruce Campbell at LT, it's not going to be any better.

We cannot pass on another opportunity for a Franchise QB which both Bradford and Clausen can be. We MUST stablize our QB situation if all possible. Simply put, none of the other QBs this year match up to Bradford or Clausen.

[Bill Cody]

If the big 2 are gone we draft a LT and hope Colt McCoy is still there in the 2nd. Ok? Ok. We're all set. :penalty:

[THATHURMANATOR]

This team has 0 chance of being .500 next year with the current QBs on this roster as well as knowing the turds that are known as the free agent QB market. This team could have a line of Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Larry Allen, Alan Faneca, and Kevin Mawae and it wouldn't mean **** with Ryan Fitzpatrick or Trent Edwards.

This is a 3-5 win team whether this team has Sam Bradford or Jimmy Clausen under center of whomever gets trotted out on the OL, or whether it has Russell Okung, Anthony Davis, Bryan Bulaga, or Bruce Campbell at LT, it's not going to be any better.

We cannot pass on another opportunity for a Franchise QB which both Bradford and Clausen can be. We MUST stablize our QB situation if all possible. Simply put, none of the other QBs this year match up to Bradford or Clausen.
Spoken like a pure genious!!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[THATHURMANATOR]

If the big 2 are gone we draft a LT and hope Colt McCoy is still there in the 2nd. Ok? Ok. We're all set. :penalty:
I don't like McCoy all that much. In fact I don't like any of the other QBs. Tebow is showing that he sucks like expected. McCoy is tiny and has a weak arm. Pike stinks,

[kernowboy]

This team has 0 chance of being .500 next year with the current QBs on this roster as well as knowing the turds that are known as the free agent QB market. This team could have a line of Walter Jones, Orlando Pace, Larry Allen, Alan Faneca, and Kevin Mawae and it wouldn't mean **** with Ryan Fitzpatrick or Trent Edwards.

This is a 3-5 win team whether this team has Sam Bradford or Jimmy Clausen under center of whomever gets trotted out on the OL, or whether it has Russell Okung, Anthony Davis, Bryan Bulaga, or Bruce Campbell at LT, it's not going to be any better.

We cannot pass on another opportunity for a Franchise QB which both Bradford and Clausen can be. We MUST stablize our QB situation if all possible. Simply put, none of the other QBs this year match up to Bradford or Clausen.

How do we stabilise the QB situation by having our QB have a Dave Carr type season of 70 odd sacks continually knocked and maybe spending part of the season on IR?

[ddaryl]

but he also benefitted from playing behind a top OL which is something we cannot offer him

that will be said about most any top QB in this draft.

How often does a college QB succeed behind a craptastic OL. How often does a top 10 QB get picked so early without a top college OL ?


Right now I think Clausen is the better pro in this draft, but I'm still researching this one.

[Bill Cody]

I don't like McCoy all that much. In fact I don't like any of the other QBs. Tebow is showing that he sucks like expected. McCoy is tiny and has a weak arm. Pike stinks,

6'2 ain't tiny. And 210's more than Tom Brady weighed coming out of Michigan. He's also completed over 70% of his passes career, more accurate than any QB in the draft.

[BillsMan80]

I don't like McCoy all that much. In fact I don't like any of the other QBs. Tebow is showing that he sucks like expected. McCoy is tiny and has a weak arm. Pike stinks,

Pike showed what he was about when he went against a real Division I defense against Florida that was physical, had speed, and athleticsm. The rest of the QBs in this class suck, and next year's QBs are no guarantees. Locker is wildly inconsistent and Mallett had one good year at Arkansas after having to transfer from Michigan. I would venture to say that both Clausen and Bradford are as good as anything that came out recently.

In fact about the rest of this year's class it's either that they don't have true NFL arms (McCoy, LeFevour, Canfield), don't have the recognition (Pike, Tebow, etc.). If there was one developmental prospect I would take a chance on if we have to, it would be Jarrett Brown because he looks like he has some good pure QB skills, and some untapped potential as he only started one year.

[kernowboy]

If you ignore the desperate need for an LT this year in Round1 you will guarantee the Bills will NEVER enjoy a winning season in Buffalo again

1) Any rookie QB will start as you are indicating they would have to, and would be so shell shocked by being constantly battered throughout the season he'd resemble a soldier returning from the Somme

2) Even if we went LT in 2011, the damage would already have been done and any chance of Clausen or Bradford being a franchise type will have been lost

3) It will be 2013 before we could dump their contracts and yet again try to draft a QB of the future and by this time the franchise will have been relocated.

[kernowboy]

A dark horse in 2011 might be Pat Devlin of Delaware who had a very promising first season having transferred from Penn St.

He has the size, the arm, and many felt he was very unfortunate that Paterno didn't give him more of a chance when he did very well in the big games he played.

With another solid season he could easily be in R1 contention

[Bill Cody]

If you ignore the desperate need for an LT this year in Round1 you will guarantee the Bills will NEVER enjoy a winning season in Buffalo again



I like guys that have a take but this is a bit over the top, no?

[kernowboy]

I like guys that have a take but this is a bit over the top, no?

We'll be rebuilding for another 3-4 years meaning Wilson would likely have passed on and the franchise moved and relocated

[BillsMan80]

How do we stabilise the QB situation by having our QB have a Dave Carr type season of 70 odd sacks continually knocked and maybe spending part of the season on IR?

I love how you automatically assume that the line is going to suck no matter what next year. Let's say the 2nd year starters make big strides, or the new OL coach is able to work with Bell after he puts some strength into his upper body and get him to turn the corner. Yeah he may take some hits but if he can't take a hit, he ain't going to be successful in this league (for example, see: Trent Edwards). And to think, take a deep breath, gulp, he doesn't even have to play right away. Gailey could even decide to have our QB learn from the sidelines. And with our abysmal line we only gave up 46 sacks anyway.

[BillsMan80]

We'll be rebuilding for another 3-4 years meaning Wilson would likely have passed on and the franchise moved and relocated

And I could say if we go into next year with the same chicken**** at QB, tha twe will never see another winning season in Buffalo because our Quarterback play is so pathetic that it doesn't matter who we have playing on the line.

[Bill Cody]

We'll be rebuilding for another 3-4 years meaning Wilson would likely have passed on and the franchise moved and relocated

or we could draft a OT in the 2nd round. or next year. We've got enough problems without making this one decision do or die.

[kernowboy]

If we are having someone right the pine we might as well leave the position until 2011.

Bell had the weakest strength of any OT in the 2008 draft. He had the entire 2008 season to work on it. He had the entire 2009 season to work on it. He had the chance to work on it under McNally (?). That's not before we even discuss his mental weakness.

Without a true LT we will be targetted there every single play.

Gailey will have to come up with some outrageous schemes because every play the QB will be running.