We must draft a Left Tackle

[kernowboy]

For many years the Bills have been guilty of drafting flashy skills players and forgetting the basics. In the period 2003-05, we drafted McGahee, Losman, Evans and Parrish, didn't even start two of these guys in their rookie seasons, yet felt that as a team we were good enough to have the likes of Mike Gandy start.

Yet the moment we get a new GM and Head Coach, the call goes out to draft a QB despite the awful difficulties we have on both lines.

Clausen and Bradford are very good players but are not the guarantees the likes of Stafford and Ryan were. Clausen really only turned it on in his last season and even then couldn't win in the big games, whilst Bradford missed his junior season so all we have is his sophmore production is a system which will require him to transition to the pro game.

We also have a QB on are roster in Brian Brohm who was as heralded in college yet has had a tough ride since being drafted. He is criticised for being beaten out by a lower drafted QB to be a backup but now we are placing him in a situation where he has a Head Coach with a track record of developing QBs, giving him a better line than the one he faced in Atlanta where he had Aaron Ramsey and Kirk Chambers defending his edges and are calling to give up on him immediately? No wonder this team hasn't gotten anywhere.

I also think trading a high pick for McNabb would be a bad idea. He may have a couple of years in the tank, but recently he has suffered numerous injuries despite having decent OTs and if traded to someone who won't be an immediate contender he may well just retire. There are young QBs available like Jackson, Croyle and Clemons who Gailey might also enjoy success with and who could compete with Brohm

Fans should consider that Nix/Gailey will almost certainly get at least two years. The Bills will remain uncompetitive in Free Agency if there is one and have not suffered well here before so Nix will focus on the draft. Nix is right in saying teams do not really go BPA but actually focus on acute need. And as Nix has eloquently stated


"It's hard to throw when you're lying on your back."


This draft should start at Left Tackle, and then go for the rest of the draft on the DL, LB, and then maybe later on some skills players. Once the team have got the meat and potatoes in place this year, then 2011 can be used on a QB but ONLY IF our QBs fail this year. Fans will point out that the SuperBowl QBs this year are guarded by lower drafted LTs but there are two key differences

1) The QBs combined have 20years+ experience with quick releases and are able to read defences quickly. A rookie does not have these skills yet. He needs 5secs to get rid of the ball, an experienced guy 3secs. Those 2secs are all the time it takes to get flattened
2) Those LTs aren't first year starters. Neither flunked the way Bell has in their first year of starting. You occasionally find a lower round gem but to rely on that is insane

I understand the clamour for a QB but its like wanting to buy a brilliant engine and then put it in a rubbish car. No matter how good it is it won't work. Our QB will be our most important player but it is absolutely ESSENTIAL we place him in an environment where he will have time to succeed rather than throw him to the Wolves.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

even though pennington has a weak arm, he is still competitive and can keep us in games. he is a stop gap option, hes the best option we have out there. its LT or bust. bulaga should be there and he reminds me a lot of jake long. i want to see us build up the trenches first like the dolphins did 2 years ago.

1 jake long ot
2 phillip merling de
2 chad henne qb
3 kendall langford de


we can take a qb in rd 2 or 3 and develop him.

[kernowboy]

even though pennington has a weak arm, he is still competitive and can keep us in games. he is a stop gap option, hes the best option we have out there. its LT or bust. bulaga should be there and he reminds me a lot of jake long. i want to see us build up the trenches first like the dolphins did 2 years ago.

1 jake long ot
2 phillip merling de
2 chad henne qb
3 kendall langford de


we can take a qb in rd 2 or 3 and develop him.

Personally John I think if we brought in Chad, we might as well develop Brohm for a year, who'd have as much potential as any 2nd or 3rd rounder.

If he didn't work out then we can spend our R1 in 2011 on a QB and even if he had to start immediately he would do so behind secure protection.

I think our DL is ok for another year or so, so I might be tempted to draft DL at the start of Day3, but get a LB and a WR/TE for Chad a little higher on Day2

[TacklingDummy]

For many years the Bills have been guilty of drafting flashy skills players and forgetting the basics. In the period 2003-05, we drafted McGahee, Losman, Evans and Parrish, didn't even start two of these guys in their rookie seasons, yet felt that as a team we were good enough to have the likes of Mike Gandy start.


Didn't the Cardinals get to the Super Bowl last year with Mike Gandy as left tackle?

[TacklingDummy]

Clausen and Bradford are very good players but are not the guarantees the likes of Stafford and Ryan were.
Stafford and Ryan were guarantees? Guarantees what?

[kernowboy]

Didn't the Cardinals get to the Super Bowl last year with Mike Gandy as left tackle?

Did you not read the bit about having an experienced QB?

[kernowboy]

Stafford and Ryan were guarantees? Guarantees what?

More guaranteed to succeed that Clausen and Bradford

[TacklingDummy]

? No wonder this team hasn't gotten anywhere.


Rob Johnson, old Drew Bledsoe, Alex Van Pelt, Kelly Holcomb, JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Brohm, 2 years Flutie, no wonder this team hasn't gone anywhere since Kelly retired.

[kernowboy]

Rob Johnson, old Drew Bledsoe, Alex Van Pelt, Kelly Holcomb, JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Brohm, 2 years Flutie, no wonder this team hasn't gone anywhere since Kelly retired.

and apart from a season and a half from Peters, how many have had a decent LT guarding their blindside?

Fina, Jennings, Gandy, Peters (only when he wanted to) Bell

no wonder we've never gotten decent production from a QB

[kernowboy]

and when Parcells set about rebuilding the Dolphins, did he draft a QB with the first overall pick?

No, he realised a QB without proper protection is a wasted pick

[X-Era]

For many years the Bills have been guilty of drafting flashy skills players and forgetting the basics. In the period 2003-05, we drafted McGahee, Losman, Evans and Parrish, didn't even start two of these guys in their rookie seasons, yet felt that as a team we were good enough to have the likes of Mike Gandy start.

Yet the moment we get a new GM and Head Coach, the call goes out to draft a QB despite the awful difficulties we have on both lines.

Clausen and Bradford are very good players but are not the guarantees the likes of Stafford and Ryan were. Clausen really only turned it on in his last season and even then couldn't win in the big games, whilst Bradford missed his junior season so all we have is his sophmore production is a system which will require him to transition to the pro game.

We also have a QB on are roster in Brian Brohm who was as heralded in college yet has had a tough ride since being drafted. He is criticised for being beaten out by a lower drafted QB to be a backup but now we are placing him in a situation where he has a Head Coach with a track record of developing QBs, giving him a better line than the one he faced in Atlanta where he had Aaron Ramsey and Kirk Chambers defending his edges and are calling to give up on him immediately? No wonder this team hasn't gotten anywhere.

I also think trading a high pick for McNabb would be a bad idea. He may have a couple of years in the tank, but recently he has suffered numerous injuries despite having decent OTs and if traded to someone who won't be an immediate contender he may well just retire. There are young QBs available like Jackson, Croyle and Clemons who Gailey might also enjoy success with and who could compete with Brohm

Fans should consider that Nix/Gailey will almost certainly get at least two years. The Bills will remain uncompetitive in Free Agency if there is one and have not suffered well here before so Nix will focus on the draft. Nix is right in saying teams do not really go BPA but actually focus on acute need. And as Nix has eloquently stated


"It's hard to throw when you're lying on your back."


This draft should start at Left Tackle, and then go for the rest of the draft on the DL, LB, and then maybe later on some skills players. Once the team have got the meat and potatoes in place this year, then 2011 can be used on a QB but ONLY IF our QBs fail this year. Fans will point out that the SuperBowl QBs this year are guarded by lower drafted LTs but there are two key differences

1) The QBs combined have 20years+ experience with quick releases and are able to read defences quickly. A rookie does not have these skills yet. He needs 5secs to get rid of the ball, an experienced guy 3secs. Those 2secs are all the time it takes to get flattened
2) Those LTs aren't first year starters. Neither flunked the way Bell has in their first year of starting. You occasionally find a lower round gem but to rely on that is insane

I understand the clamour for a QB but its like wanting to buy a brilliant engine and then put it in a rubbish car. No matter how good it is it won't work. Our QB will be our most important player but it is absolutely ESSENTIAL we place him in an environment where he will have time to succeed rather than throw him to the Wolves.

1) The OL needs to be fixed. That's a given. What I dont think is a given is how. I think the interior is adequate for now and can continue to develop into a real good group. The egdes were suspect as we know. But the rotating door at the edges had dual meanings. Yes, whoever played the OT spots was mediocre at best, but no one guy stayed there long enough to jell into anything either. Bell and Meredith both showed some ability. And its possible that one of them could become the next Peters. But they have a mountain to climb, and we cant put all our eggs in one basket. So, yes, we need to draft a LT at least. Does it have to be at 9? I say no. Guys like Fox, Capers, maybe Beadles could be decent early and wont cost a 1st orund pick in all likelihood. That said, I would be just as happy with taking one at 9.

2) Several QB prospects have been taken out of the top 5 with early success. Flacco, and Sanchez are the latest. Yet both were 1st rounders. Neither of them were locks to be Manning like franchise QB's. We must get a franchise QB. Its not a want, its a must. We have toiled in mediocrity for a decade and wont get out of it with anything less than a franchise QB, IMO. We cant afford to keep pushing that need off, undervaluing it, or trying cheap fixes. We all know the history and we all know the failures. Its a must. What isn't a must is to lock into a player as a must draft or bust. If the Bills come away convinced that none of the QB's in this draft look like they have a good chance to become franchise QB's in Buffalo, they shouldn't be drafting one first and foremost. But you and I aren't privy to what they think, so we wont know.

3) Since we may or may not think we can draft a franchise QB in this draft, and since its so important, the trade route becomes very viable. There's no reason not to add a solid proven QB while you continue your difficult search for the future guy. That gives you a chance to win now while you search. The whole team can grow in confidence and skill under a guy who can lead the team in the interim. Not getting someone, and stinking up the field, ruins unity, can destroy confidence, and can turn off players who might be interested in joining the team otherwise.

Yes, we need a LT, we also need a QB, and other needs. But, we shouldn't be locked into any position at 9, and we should do a full, and fair evaluation of who we already have.

[kernowboy]

Fox is a huge medical red flag with knee problems and possible heart issues. Capers is a raw as hell. We drafted a midround LT in Jonas Jennings and got mediocrity.

What I want is the Polian and Parcells route - draft a LT then a QB.

Polian drafted a LT in 1997 in Tarik Glenn then a QB in Manning in 1998

I'm not going to argue with the approach of a GM like Polian

[Luisito23]

I like Bulaga, but we need to take either Bradford or Clausen with our first pick, a decade is too long to go without a competent QB...Even if either turn out to be bust, I wont be mad because at least we tried.

[kernowboy]

I like Bulaga, but we need to take either Bradford or Clausen with our first pick, a decade is too long to go without a competent QB...Even if either turn out to be bust, I wont be mad because at least we tried.

I think its a 2 year rebuild.

Gailey is supposed to be an offensive genius so it seems mad not to give Brohm a chance.

We've waited a decade so I'd rather wait another year and at least give a rookie a chance to succeed, than throw him behind our current line spend $50m on him, but almost guaranteeing he'll be a shell shocked bust and compromising our ability to then sign his replacement as the Raiders are finding with Russell

[NOT THE DUDE...]

in reality it might make sense to just let brohm start next year and see what he has... if he sucks, then we draft qb in rd 1 next year... we are not going to win next year...

[Night Train]

Let's reach for a overrated QB like Losman, Todd Collins and that ilk.

That's always served us well.

There is a reason Mike Mayock and others have stated no QB is worth a 1st rounder this year.

Screw that. REACH !

[Historian]

Rob Johnson, old Drew Bledsoe, Alex Van Pelt, Kelly Holcomb, JP Losman, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Brian Brohm, 2 years Flutie, no wonder this team hasn't gone anywhere since Kelly retired.

You forgot Billy Joe, TD.

[SABURZFAN]

You forgot Billy Joe, TD.


he wasn't in TD's play book.

[BillsMan80]

Fox is a huge medical red flag with knee problems and possible heart issues. Capers is a raw as hell. We drafted a midround LT in Jonas Jennings and got mediocrity.

What I want is the Polian and Parcells route - draft a LT then a QB.

Polian drafted a LT in 1997 in Tarik Glenn then a QB in Manning in 1998

I'm not going to argue with the approach of a GM like Polian

Please, don't even go there with Polian drafting an LT first...did you happen to see the QB class of 1997? Could have been one of the worst in the history of college football:

Jim Druckenmiller
Jake Plummer
Danny Weurffel
Pat Barnes
Mike Cherry
Chuck Clements
Tony Graziani
Koy Detmer
Wally Richardson
Tony Corbin
Ronnie McAda

Clausen and Bradford are light years, I repeat LIGHT YEARS better than that group so you can't say Polian decided lets go LT and then QB because it will help the franchise more.

[BillsMan80]

Let's reach for a overrated QB like Losman, Todd Collins and that ilk.

That's always served us well.

There is a reason Mike Mayock and others have stated no QB is worth a 1st rounder this year.

Screw that. REACH !

With all due respect, Mayock said no Quarterback is worth the top pick. He never said anything about being worth a first round pick or top ten pick.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Stafford and Ryan were guarantees? Guarantees what?
Seriously.

[BillsMan80]

Also, for every team that goes LT then QB, some teams go QB then Tackle:

In fact for our very own franchise House Ballard was an 11th Round Pick aka a Rookie Free Agent today.

Atlanta: Matt Ryan then Sam Baker
Arizona: Matt Leinhart then Levi Brown
Baltimore: Joe Flacco then Michael Oher
Carolina: Went right with their QB, Kerry Collins out the gate.
Dallas: Drafted Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, and Emmitt Smith before getting their LT, Erik Williams
Denver: Jay Cutler then Ryan Clady
Minnesota: Daunte Culpepper then Bryant McKinnie
New England: Tom Brady then Matt Light
Oakland: JaMarcus Russell when they had a clear need at LT
Pittsburgh: Ben Roethlisberger then Max Starks
St. Louis: Tony Banks then Orlando Pace
San Francisco: Alwx Smith then Joe Staley

[Philagape]

Fox is a huge medical red flag with knee problems and possible heart issues. Capers is a raw as hell. We drafted a midround LT in Jonas Jennings and got mediocrity.

What I want is the Polian and Parcells route - draft a LT then a QB.

Polian drafted a LT in 1997 in Tarik Glenn then a QB in Manning in 1998

I'm not going to argue with the approach of a GM like Polian

You say that as if it was a grand plan. How can that be, if teams don't know where they're going to draft the following year? If the Colts had been just one spot off in 98, they would've ended up with Ryan Leaf. The next QB taken, Charlie Batch, wasn't until the end of the second round. Such an "approach" includes knowing who you're going to get the following year, which is impossible.
The first player the Colts drafted who became part of their SB core was Marvin Harrison. So I guess their "approach" was to start with a WR, eh? Polian knows best, so let's take Dez Bryant!
The Colts -- and any other example you can name -- chose the right players, not positions.

[ByrdsTheWord]

I like Bulaga, but we need to take either Bradford or Clausen with our first pick, a decade is too long to go without a competent QB...Even if either turn out to be bust, I wont be mad because at least we tried.
you wouldnt be mad if we waste money, time and a top 10 pick on a bust? :loser:

[kernowboy]

Also, for every team that goes LT then QB, some teams go QB then Tackle:

In fact for our very own franchise House Ballard was an 11th Round Pick aka a Rookie Free Agent today.

Atlanta: Matt Ryan then Sam Baker
Arizona: Matt Leinhart then Levi Brown
Baltimore: Joe Flacco then Michael Oher
Carolina: Went right with their QB, Kerry Collins out the gate.
Dallas: Drafted Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, and Emmitt Smith before getting their LT, Erik Williams
Denver: Jay Cutler then Ryan Clady
Minnesota: Daunte Culpepper then Bryant McKinnie
New England: Tom Brady then Matt Light
Oakland: JaMarcus Russell when they had a clear need at LT
Pittsburgh: Ben Roethlisberger then Max Starks
St. Louis: Tony Banks then Orlando Pace
San Francisco: Alwx Smith then Joe Staley

Atlanta - yes but they had Weiner in place
Arizona - Leinhart hasn't played but is left handed so his blindside was Clement. Brown was drafted to replace Leonard Davis an overall No2 pick
Baltimore - had Ogden then Gaither, Oher is their RT
Carolina - We're not an expansion team
Dallas -
Denver - had Matt Lepsis (ProBowl) playing until he retired
Minnesota - had Todd Steuisse before McKimmie
New England -Brady didn't really start playing until Light had two years experience
Oakland - have Mario Henderson but before him Barry Sims who have done ok
Pittsburgh - had Marvel Smith and Wayne Gandy at LT
St Louis - Banks never survived anywhere
49ers - had Jennings at LT but he couldn't stay healthy

Your list is completely disingenuious and in most cases false.

For example Denver drafted Clady but only to replaced ProBowler Lepsis who was retiring.

In most cases, the LTs you say were drafted after the QB are in fact replacing an experienced and good LT who has either moved in free agency or retiring.

Nice twisting of the facts.

We are not looking to replace an experienced LT who is moving on - we have Demetrius 'The Turnstyle, I make Gandy look like a Pro-Bowler' Bell

[kernowboy]

and how did Aikman do in his rookie season without proper protection?

I believe it was 1-15

Neither Clausen or Bradford are the next Troy Aitken but without a proper LT they are more than likely to be the next Heath Shuler

[Philagape]

and how did Aikman do in his rookie season without proper protection?

I believe it was 1-15

Yeah, throw out the three SBs, and the 1-15 season made it a bad approach. Great case you make there.

[ByrdsTheWord]

Also, for every team that goes LT then QB, some teams go QB then Tackle:

In fact for our very own franchise House Ballard was an 11th Round Pick aka a Rookie Free Agent today.

Atlanta: Matt Ryan then Sam Baker
Arizona: Matt Leinhart then Levi Brown
Baltimore: Joe Flacco then Michael Oher
Carolina: Went right with their QB, Kerry Collins out the gate.
Dallas: Drafted Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, and Emmitt Smith before getting their LT, Erik Williams
Denver: Jay Cutler then Ryan Clady
Minnesota: Daunte Culpepper then Bryant McKinnie
New England: Tom Brady then Matt Light
Oakland: JaMarcus Russell when they had a clear need at LT
Pittsburgh: Ben Roethlisberger then Max Starks
St. Louis: Tony Banks then Orlando Pace
San Francisco: Alwx Smith then Joe Staley

1) Pittsburgh had Alen Faneca and Marvel Smith playing LT. And yes. Faneca played LT and LG. Why would they care about drafting another LT that early? Marvel was a legit LT at the time as well. WRONG

2) Oher was drafted to start his career at RT. They already had an established offensive line with Gaither anchoring the LT spot. You're WRONG

3) You forgot to mention that the Vikings already had a pro bowl caliber LT in Todd Steussie. he could DEFINATELY hold his own. He anchored that o-line in the mid to late 90s. There was no need to draft a LT. YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN !!!

4) San Fransisco had Jonas Jennings playing LT before drafting Staley. Staley started his career playing RT before moving to LT. WRONG AGAIN.

I could go on and on about how wrong you are with this post but i think i'll stop right now.

[BillsMan80]

All the same, they needed Left Tackles at some point in time and waited until settling their QB situation. Why didn't they take the LT first to replace the LT leaving and solidify the line and then take the QB?

[kernowboy]

1) Pittsburgh had Alen Faneca and Marvel Smith playing LT. And yes. Faneca played LT and LG. Why would they care about drafting another LT that early? Marvel was a legit LT at the time as well. WRONG

2) Oher was drafted to start his career at RT. They already had an established offensive line with Gaither anchoring the LT spot. You're WRONG

3) You forgot to mention that the Vikings already had a pro bowl caliber LT in Todd Steussie. he could DEFINATELY hold his own. He anchored that o-line in the mid to late 90s. There was no need to draft a LT. YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN !!!

4) San Fransisco had Jonas Jennings playing LT before drafting Staley. Staley started his career playing RT before moving to LT. WRONG AGAIN.

I could go on and on about how wrong you are with this post but i think i'll stop right now.

And don't forget Clady replace Matt Lepsis who I beleive was one of the most highly regarded LTs in the league

[BillsMan80]

1) Pittsburgh had Alen Faneca and Marvel Smith playing LT. And yes. Faneca played LT and LG. Why would they care about drafting another LT that early? Marvel was a legit LT at the time as well. WRONG

2) Oher was drafted to start his career at RT. They already had an established offensive line with Gaither anchoring the LT spot. You're WRONG

3) You forgot to mention that the Vikings already had a pro bowl caliber LT in Todd Steussie. he could DEFINATELY hold his own. He anchored that o-line in the mid to late 90s. There was no need to draft a LT. YOU'RE WRONG AGAIN !!!

4) San Fransisco had Jonas Jennings playing LT before drafting Staley. Staley started his career playing RT before moving to LT. WRONG AGAIN.

I could go on and on about how wrong you are with this post but i think i'll stop right now.

Jonas Jennings...hahahahaahahahahaahah. Please don't make me laugh anymore. The guy couldn't stay on the field because of hangnails and such and got hurt every other game. And in fact considering many teams are perfectly willing to start guys at RT before moving them to LT and in fact many teams do that. San Francisco traded up giving up a first round pick to get Staley, clearly declaring their intentions regarding him, that they wanted him as their LT of the future. Oh wait, Peters started out at RT too.

[kernowboy]

All the same, they needed Left Tackles at some point in time and waited until settling their QB situation. Why didn't they take the LT first to replace the LT leaving and solidify the line and then take the QB?

Because they already had a decent LT in place and could have the chance to take the QB and then replace the LT who left or retired

We do not have a decent LT in place

[BillsMan80]

Besides, the few games that we had everyone healthy on the line this year, it didn't look terrible. The line deteriorated towards the end of the year because of injury. I just can't say it enough, its the case that TD and Thurm and others bring up, you NEVER, NEVER, EVER pass up on a potential franchise quarterback if he's sitting there waiting for you because now, more than ever this is a Quarterback's league.

[kernowboy]

Besides, the few games that we had everyone healthy on the line this year, it didn't look terrible. The line deteriorated towards the end of the year because of injury. I just can't say it enough, its the case that TD and Thurm and others bring up, you NEVER, NEVER, EVER pass up on a potential franchise quarterback if he's sitting there waiting for you because now, more than ever this is a Quarterback's league.

Come on, Bell looked awful.

The big question is that are Clausen or Bradford really franchise QB prospects? It reminds me of 2007 with Russell and Quinn, both of who had huge (and now seen to be deserved) question marks about them.

With such a level of risk - Clausen did little until his junior season and cannot win the big games, Bradford's production has only been until the end of his sophmore year - I like many fans would rather the Bills not take any risks but take care of other business and then revisit the position next year.

If Locker, Devlin, Mallet, Ponder, and maybe Gabbert continue to make progress then they could well be seen to be the equal of Clausen and Bradford if not better. If Harbaugh leaves the Cardinals, then Andrew Luck might chance his arm as a sophmore - he'll have had as much experience as Bradford, but will have come from a pro-style offence and will be without the injury concerns.

And in all of these cases we'll be sticking them in as a rookie behind a gelled OL which has a LT who has already gone through their growing pains.

If we draft Clausen or Bradford, I fear we'll be looking again at QB by the time of 2013 draft.

[elltrain22]

Completely agree. We got 2 early round O-lineman last year, and then if we can get another early round lt, we're looking at a very nice line in the future. The other enticing thing about drafting a LT is that there are some very good looking prospects out there. Russell Okung, Bruce Campbell, Brian Baluga, and Trent Williams are all very good prospects. I think if we go qb first, we're setting him up to fail w/ the Oline we got now. Only way I'd be all for us drafting a QB first, is if we sign a FA left tackle. If we don't make a FA move to bolster our line, I believe drafting oline is the only way to go.

[ByrdsTheWord]

Jonas Jennings...hahahahaahahahahaahah. Please don't make me laugh anymore. The guy couldn't stay on the field because of hangnails and such and got hurt every other game. And in fact considering many teams are perfectly willing to start guys at RT before moving them to LT and in fact many teams do that. San Francisco traded up giving up a first round pick to get Staley, clearly declaring their intentions regarding him, that they wanted him as their LT of the future. Oh wait, Peters started out at RT too.

I never said he was good did i? He was just a stop gap and LT wasnt a necessary NEED for them at the time. They had sooo many holes to fill. So why dont you defend your other points? OR are you too embarassed that i made you look stupid?

[Bill Cody]

The Colts -- and any other example you can name -- chose the right players, not positions.

That's my feeling in a nutshell. QB, LT, waterboy, we've got to start picking winners not trading up or reaching for Mt. Rushmore sized busts. I don't know whether to trust Nix to do that or not. But he has to or it will be same old same old.:whistle:

[Ron Burgundy]

We might draft a left tackle. We must NOT get locked into drafting one position, because that's stupid.

[BillsMan80]

I never said he was good did i? He was just a stop gap and LT wasnt a necessary NEED for them at the time. They had sooo many holes to fill. So why dont you defend your other points? OR are you too embarassed that i made you look stupid?

Gaither was going into his second year when Baltimore took Oher. Gaither was also a 5th Round Supplemental Draft Pick. Not exactly screaming Orlando Pace or Walter Jones there.

Marvel Smith was a decent player who did make two Pro Bowls but I would never have called him elite during his time there.

There was absolutely the potential for Minnesota to draft an LT because Steussie was released in a cap cutting move, forcing them to draft McKinnie. Kind of what this team did when guys like Clements were about to be free agents.

[Mahdi]

For many years the Bills have been guilty of drafting flashy skills players and forgetting the basics. In the period 2003-05, we drafted McGahee, Losman, Evans and Parrish, didn't even start two of these guys in their rookie seasons, yet felt that as a team we were good enough to have the likes of Mike Gandy start.

Yet the moment we get a new GM and Head Coach, the call goes out to draft a QB despite the awful difficulties we have on both lines.

Clausen and Bradford are very good players but are not the guarantees the likes of Stafford and Ryan were. Clausen really only turned it on in his last season and even then couldn't win in the big games, whilst Bradford missed his junior season so all we have is his sophmore production is a system which will require him to transition to the pro game.

We also have a QB on are roster in Brian Brohm who was as heralded in college yet has had a tough ride since being drafted. He is criticised for being beaten out by a lower drafted QB to be a backup but now we are placing him in a situation where he has a Head Coach with a track record of developing QBs, giving him a better line than the one he faced in Atlanta where he had Aaron Ramsey and Kirk Chambers defending his edges and are calling to give up on him immediately? No wonder this team hasn't gotten anywhere.

I also think trading a high pick for McNabb would be a bad idea. He may have a couple of years in the tank, but recently he has suffered numerous injuries despite having decent OTs and if traded to someone who won't be an immediate contender he may well just retire. There are young QBs available like Jackson, Croyle and Clemons who Gailey might also enjoy success with and who could compete with Brohm

Fans should consider that Nix/Gailey will almost certainly get at least two years. The Bills will remain uncompetitive in Free Agency if there is one and have not suffered well here before so Nix will focus on the draft. Nix is right in saying teams do not really go BPA but actually focus on acute need. And as Nix has eloquently stated


"It's hard to throw when you're lying on your back."


This draft should start at Left Tackle, and then go for the rest of the draft on the DL, LB, and then maybe later on some skills players. Once the team have got the meat and potatoes in place this year, then 2011 can be used on a QB but ONLY IF our QBs fail this year. Fans will point out that the SuperBowl QBs this year are guarded by lower drafted LTs but there are two key differences

1) The QBs combined have 20years+ experience with quick releases and are able to read defences quickly. A rookie does not have these skills yet. He needs 5secs to get rid of the ball, an experienced guy 3secs. Those 2secs are all the time it takes to get flattened
2) Those LTs aren't first year starters. Neither flunked the way Bell has in their first year of starting. You occasionally find a lower round gem but to rely on that is insane

I understand the clamour for a QB but its like wanting to buy a brilliant engine and then put it in a rubbish car. No matter how good it is it won't work. Our QB will be our most important player but it is absolutely ESSENTIAL we place him in an environment where he will have time to succeed rather than throw him to the Wolves.
Just to note... had Bradford come out last year he would have gone #1 overall Stafford was always considered the #2 guy.

You insist on placing these rules that the OL has to be set before you can draft a QB which makes no sense.

If Clausen or Bradford are there @ 9 and Okung is gone which he will be then IMO the 2 Qbs carry more value than Bulaga and Campbell.

I strongly believe either a QB or a LT will be signed or traded for in FA which will reduce the major needs list and the position we dont address in FA will be drafted with either our first or second rounder.

[BillsMan80]

Everyone here who says the Bills draft the flashy guys at WR, RB, etc., the one position more than anything on the field which isn't about flash and is the backbone of a team is the Quarterback who makes a team go. Drafting a Bulaga or Bruce Campbell ain't gonna matter one bit if you have ****ty Quarterbacks like Ryan Fitzpatrick or Trent Edwards under center, for the sheer fact that you are getting the same inept QB play. It doesn't matter if those 2 have all day back there to make throws, Fitzpatrick doesn't have the arm or accuracy necessary to be a starter in the NFL and Edwards lacks the arm and the balls to be an NFL QB.

[TacklingDummy]

and how did Aikman do in his rookie season without proper protection?

I believe it was 1-15

How did Peyton Manning do his first season with Glenn for protection?

I believe it was 3-13.

[Prov401]

Games are won and lost in the trenches. Everybody knows this. I don't care what position we draft at 9, as long as the player is a D-Lineman, or an O-Lineman. End of story. I think the only other player I wouldn't be upset with drafting at 9, especially switching to a 3-4, is McClaine.

[dhasek00]

How did Peyton Manning do his first season with Glenn for protection?

I believe it was 3-13.

Exactly. I brought this up in another post, but Pennington and Clemens also went 4-12 with NY with the same line that Favre had when he came. After he rolled in, the team went 9-7. Would have been the same horrible team if they kept Chad.

[better days]

and when Parcells set about rebuilding the Dolphins, did he draft a QB with the first overall pick?

No, he realised a QB without proper protection is a wasted pick

No, he realized Long at that pick was a better value than any of the QB's available. If he thought a QB with more value than Long was there he would have picked the QB. If there is a LT at #9 that Nix thinks has greater value than any QB he will most likely draft the LT. That is unless he thinks there is a DT, DE or LB with greater value than the LT's on the board at that time.

[dhasek00]

No, he realized Long at that pick was a better value than any of the QB's available. If he thought a QB with more value than Long was there he would have picked the QB. If there is a LT at #9 that Nix thinks has greater value than any QB he will most likely draft the LT. That is unless he thinks there is a DT, DE or LB with greater value than the LT's on the board at that time.

As much as I think we need a QB, I have to agree with you here. Just have to pick the highest rated player on the board that fits a need on the team.

Nix brought it up in his interview. Do you pick the best guy or the top need? He said you do both. AKA... pick the player with the most value.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

everyone keeps saying we need a to draft a qb, why not bring in a veteran qb like pennington or batch? we could easily win 10 games with those guys if we build the lines and then bring in a vet qb. yes pennington doesnt have the strongest arm but he would be a stop gap. plus he is really are only option. all people opposed to getting pennington need to actually say who we will get....

[dhasek00]

Games are won and lost in the trenches. Everybody knows this. I don't care what position we draft at 9, as long as the player is a D-Lineman, or an O-Lineman. End of story. I think the only other player I wouldn't be upset with drafting at 9, especially switching to a 3-4, is McClaine.

I would have agreed with you 5-10 years ago, but the game has changed. The league is now dependant on teams with a heavy passing attack and quick defense. Good QBs nowadays know how to get the ball out quick. They have to communicate with their line to spot blitz' and coverages. Running attacks really don't mean much to me as they once did. We beat the Jets this year despite Thomas Jones having 210 yards. You still need some sort of running game, but only at times to open up the pass and stretch the field. The Saints and Colts have mastered this. Up and coming teams are just now learning that this is the case in this age.

The Jets came in against Indy with a run ego and they were gently pushed aside. If you can keep the QB safe for a 2-3 seconds, then he should be able to find his receiver. There are some plays with a 5 step drop that he would need a couple extra seconds, but this is what separates the good lines from the bad. If a QB doesn't know what to do with the ball at the 5+ second mark, then he's not ready to lead the team. A QB, to me, is the obvious choice to pick over a lineman.

[dhasek00]

everyone keeps saying we need a to draft a qb, why not bring in a veteran qb like pennington or batch? we could easily win 10 games with those guys if we build the lines and then bring in a vet qb. yes pennington doesnt have the strongest arm but he would be a stop gap. plus he is really are only option. all people opposed to getting pennington need to actually say who we will get....

We need someone with a strong arm, because... he needs to be able to counter the wind that the Ralph hands him. Nix said himself that we want a QB with an arm to combat the elements.

[Don't Panic]

FA will dictate all of this. The whole debate might become a moot point if we fill either LT of QB before the draft, which is entirely possible. If they don't? Well... you have to have a pocket protected before you can put anyone back there. If Bradford looks good in workouts, he's tough to pass on... but that should take care of itself because if he looks good, he's going higher than #9. LT over Claussen at #9 10 times out of 10, though.

[kernowboy]

I would have agreed with you 5-10 years ago, but the game has changed. The league is now dependant on teams with a heavy passing attack and quick defense. Good QBs nowadays know how to get the ball out quick. They have to communicate with their line to spot blitz' and coverages. Running attacks really don't mean much to me as they once did. We beat the Jets this year despite Thomas Jones having 210 yards. You still need some sort of running game, but only at times to open up the pass and stretch the field. The Saints and Colts have mastered this. Up and coming teams are just now learning that this is the case in this age.

The Jets came in against Indy with a run ego and they were gently pushed aside. If you can keep the QB safe for a 2-3 seconds, then he should be able to find his receiver. There are some plays with a 5 step drop that he would need a couple extra seconds, but this is what separates the good lines from the bad. If a QB doesn't know what to do with the ball at the 5+ second mark, then he's not ready to lead the team. A QB, to me, is the obvious choice to pick over a lineman.

Our current LT cannot keep the QB safe for 0.2-0.3 seconds

[BillsMan80]

Our current LT cannot keep the QB safe for 0.2-0.3 seconds

And the point some are trying to make is who gives a crap whether the LT can keep the QB safe for 0.1 seconds or 5 seconds, when you have Arena League Talents like Trent Edwards and Ryan Fitzpatrick throwing the ball, these shmucks would find a way to look bad running 7 on 7 drills.

[wozrob11]

give up on that 1st round Lt stuff its a waste of a good pick we can get all the LT's we want in the second round we need a qb !!! new coach new staff NEW QB not new LT. CHILD PLEASE!!!!!!

[Mahdi]

FA will dictate all of this. The whole debate might become a moot point if we fill either LT of QB before the draft, which is entirely possible. If they don't? Well... you have to have a pocket protected before you can put anyone back there. If Bradford looks good in workouts, he's tough to pass on... but that should take care of itself because if he looks good, he's going higher than #9. LT over Claussen at #9 10 times out of 10, though.
It depends on who that LT is. The only sure bet at LT is Okung. Campbell, Bulaga and Williams all have questions.

Give me the QB (Clausen or Bradford) with the great arm and mechanics over a questionable LT prospect.

[NOT THE DUDE...]

what about chad clifton as a stop gap for lt for 2 years?

[Prov401]

I would have agreed with you 5-10 years ago, but the game has changed. The league is now dependant on teams with a heavy passing attack and quick defense. Good QBs nowadays know how to get the ball out quick. They have to communicate with their line to spot blitz' and coverages. Running attacks really don't mean much to me as they once did. We beat the Jets this year despite Thomas Jones having 210 yards. You still need some sort of running game, but only at times to open up the pass and stretch the field. The Saints and Colts have mastered this. Up and coming teams are just now learning that this is the case in this age.

The Jets came in against Indy with a run ego and they were gently pushed aside. If you can keep the QB safe for a 2-3 seconds, then he should be able to find his receiver. There are some plays with a 5 step drop that he would need a couple extra seconds, but this is what separates the good lines from the bad. If a QB doesn't know what to do with the ball at the 5+ second mark, then he's not ready to lead the team. A QB, to me, is the obvious choice to pick over a lineman.

I understand what your saying.

However, this is really the first year where 2 pass happy teams are in the big game. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and say the game has changed just because of one season.

Take that line away from Manning, and he's not even getting to the Superbowl. He has a quick release no doubt, however, a quick release means his wind-up isn't Leftwhich-esque. It doesn't mean he is hitting his receivers 2 seconds after he says hike. I saw quite a few plays last week where Peyton had to step up in the pocket, and wait a bit before he pulled the trigger.

Pittsburgh won the Superbowl last year with Roethlisberger going 14-22 for 155yds and 2 TD's each game. This year, the Steelers ditched the running game, and Ben was going 30-40 379yds, 2tds 2ints, and losing games. The grind it out run game is still the way to go, if your team is dedicated to it. It's gotten teams Lombardi trophies for years. Some of these 'pass happy' teams have QB's that we may never see again in our lifetime (Manning, Brady, Brees). They are in a leauge of their own.

This game will ALWAYS start up front. I'll guarentee that if you put Manning and the Colts receviers/tight ends/running backs, on our team, with our O-Line, that we wouldn't be in the Superbowl. We'd probably go 11-5 just because Manning is that damn great, but we won't be playing in the big game.

Trenches are first and foremost, 5-10 years ago, and now.

[kernowboy]

give up on that 1st round Lt stuff its a waste of a good pick we can get all the LT's we want in the second round we need a qb !!! new coach new staff NEW QB not new LT. CHILD PLEASE!!!!!!

You come up with this nonsense and clearly haven't bothered to look at other teams needs.

What load of LTs will be available in Round2?

There are considered 6 LTs in this draft with Day1 starting ability. I will list them for you.

Russell Okung
Bruce Campbell
Bryan Bulaga
Charles Brown
Trent Williams
Anthony Davis.

Teams requiring a LT have a total of 17 picks before we draft in Round2.

The next two LTs in most grades are Capers and Fox. Capers is extremely raw whilst Fox is a huge medical risk with knee and heart issues.

There is NO WAY we can find a starting LT in Round2 unless this is the bizarrest draft in history.

Maybe you should do some actual research before making foolish remarks. Child

[Night Train]

I remember when Jacksonville first came into the League back in 1995.

Their 1st 2 picks in the Draft were the two 1st team All-American Tackles. Tony Boselli of USC and Brain DeMarco of Michigan State. Both started for years, with Boselli on his way to the HOF.

That was a dumb move, by the standards of many here.

[realdealryan]

Take that line away from Manning, and he's not even getting to the Superbowl.

Why don't we? Charlie Johnson's contract is up.