Kiper just said...

[T-Long]

Jimmy Clausen is the most UNDERRATED player in the whole draft.

[THATHURMANATOR]

What was his reasoning?

[Novacane]

Kiper is nuts.

[Novacane]

What was his reasoning?



He does not need a reason. He knows so much more than all the scouts and GM's in the league.

[T-Long]

He said there are so many people that either love him or those that think he is a 2nd rounder....said he loves his arm strength and leadership with the team voting him as a captain last season. That was about the gist of it, but he said the most overrated player was Taylor Mays.

[BillsWin]

Kiper is a tool. That being said, I wouldn't be upset if we picked Clausen at nine.

I obviously want Bradford over him, but I think Clausen has the swagger and physical tools to build a team around. He's also pretty accurate. Doesn't throw a bunch of interceptions. At least not this past season.

[DraftBoy]

He loves Clausen, I disagree, I think he is one of the more overrated. Not the first or last time we'll disagree.

[BillsWin]

I agree on Taylor Mays. Don't like him very much.

[THATHURMANATOR]

He does not need a reason. He knows so much more than all the scouts and GM's in the league.
Well is it certain that all Scouts and GM's in the league think Clausen sucks?

[DraftBoy]

Well is it certain that all Scouts and GM's in the league think Clausen sucks?

No but there are rumors that he is very high on some boards while very low on others. I side with the lower, while you'd side with the higher.

[T-Long]

I think he slides to the top for teams that desperately need a QB. I think he falls in teams that already have their guy for the forseeable future.

[THATHURMANATOR]

No but there are rumors that he is very high on some boards while very low on others. I side with the lower, while you'd side with the higher.
Got it.

Listen I am a novice with this grading out players thing.

I only go on what I have seen out of him on the field.

In the games I watched him he was great, regardless of the competition.

I guess I would side with the higher but am in no way saying I guarantee he is good.

[psubills62]

No but there are rumors that he is very high on some boards while very low on others. I side with the lower, while you'd side with the higher.

Please be the Redskins or Seahawks!

Kiper is meant to be entertaining. And he just did exactly what he was supposed to - spout something that will create discussion among other people.

[psubills62]

He said there are so many people that either love him or those that think he is a 2nd rounder....said he loves his arm strength and leadership with the team voting him as a captain last season. That was about the gist of it, but he said the most overrated player was Taylor Mays.

By "last season" do you mean 2009 or 2008 season?

I don't know if he was a captain in 2008, but if he's talking about being voted a captain in 2009, that point doesn't really seem very legitimate. I think a QB in any program who is in his 3rd year starting would be a captain.

[DraftBoy]

Got it.

Listen I am a novice with this grading out players thing.

I only go on what I have seen out of him on the field.

In the games I watched him he was great, regardless of the competition.

I guess I would side with the higher but am in no way saying I guarantee he is good.

No harm no foul man. You can't be expected to know or guarantee everything, just as I can't even though this is what I concentrate on. I get some wrong, I get some right, I move on. I like who I like, and so do you. Nothing to be ashamed of, just because we disagree. Its all good.

:cheers:

[DraftBoy]

By "last season" do you mean 2009 or 2008 season?

I don't know if he was a captain in 2008, but if he's talking about being voted a captain in 2009, that point doesn't really seem very legitimate. I think a QB in any program who is in his 3rd year starting would be a captain.

He means 2009.

[T-Long]

Of course I meant 2009, that was LAST college football season right? Nothing is a guarantee when it comes to team votes. You think just because he's been there that he gets the vote? I doubt it. He got it because he earned it.

I think the guy is a ___________ (insert fav derogatory name here) but I think he will be a good QB in the league and wouldn't mind it one bit if he came here.

[WeAreArthurMoates]

I like Clausen a lot and the only reason people hate him cause he's a douche bag by perception. Though teammates love him and the kid is tough. He was well coached and has a ton of experience. Get him and then trade up for a LT.

[Mahdi]

Jimmy Clausen is the most UNDERRATED player in the whole draft.
Clausen has a strong arm and good accuracy and NFL type knowledge of offense not to mention great production.

There is no reason he is a worse prospect than Ryan, Flacco, Stafford or Sanchez.

[Tatonka]

i dont like him at all.. he looks gay.

[DraftBoy]

Clausen has a strong arm and good accuracy and NFL type knowledge of offense not to mention great production.

There is no reason he is a worse prospect than Ryan, Flacco, Stafford or Sanchez.


Minus that whole winning issue just to make one obvious point amongst a few others.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Minus that whole winning issue just to make one obvious point amongst a few others.
Sure but it wasn't like he lost those games or played badly in the losses.

For example he threw for 340 and 5 tds no ints in a loss to Stanford.

He doesn't play defense. What more could he have done to win that game?

I am just trying to educate myself as to why I wouldn't want this guy.

You, Fun Times, Novacane and others are so against Clausen I want to know for sure why.

[DraftBoy]

Sure but it wasn't like he lost those games or played badly in the losses.

For example he threw for 340 and 5 tds no ints in a loss to Stanford.

He doesn't play defense. What more could he have done to win that game?

I am just trying to educate myself as to why I wouldn't want this guy.

You, Fun Times, Novacane and others are so against Clausen I want to know for sure why.

Read the reports, his weaknesses are very well documented. Ingtar posted one in the Scouting Zone, mine is on BSD, and there are countless other sites that have info on him.

[Dicknoze69]

Here are some general pointers from Ingtar's scouting report on Clausen.


so i looked over a few highlights of Clausen's this year and have come to a few conclusions.

1) he has a long throwing motion, almost as long as Leftwich. It's deliberate and slow, it takes a very long time for the ball to leave his hand from the moment he makes up his mind to throw.

2) he throws with a 3/4 motion. He got away with it because he's in college, the big problem for Clausen will be he's just 6'2" or so. he's not tall like Philip Rivers or Drew Bledsoe. The result is he'll have passes batted back into his face.

3) he's far more comfortable throwing to his right. About 70% of his passes went to the right. The only time i saw him throw left was when the play was a designed screen to the left, or that was where his dump-off man was stationed... or he made a pre-snap read that demanded he exploit a match-up to the left. I never once saw him look left in the standard progression and throw to a 2nd or third option that way. that said, he threw a far better deep ball to the left, his deep passes to the right were largely ugly jump balls, with only a few exceptions.

4) he threw most of his jump balls when he was scrambling, he threw pretty poorly on the run as a whole. Never saw him scramble left, never saw him throw on the run to the left.

5) did a great job looking off safeties

6) very accurate when he could step into his passes. probably the most accurate QB in the draft when he had a pocket

7) excellent pre-snap coverage recognition.

8) Slow in his progression, locked onto the primary receiver too long

9) saw him throw only 2 or 3 slant routs. was far more comfortable throwing outs streaks or posts. Occasionally would find a 3rd option on a drag.

10) about 35% of his passes were some sort of WR, TE or RB screen or dump-off pass.

Also, here's his overall thoughts:


he'll probably be the first QB off the board unless Bradford can throw at a really high level before the draft. His height and low release point, and rather slow delivery are all big knocks against him.

His inability to look to the left side of the field during his progression scares me to death, that was what undid Rick Mirer's career. Unlike Mirer, he can actually throw the ball to that side... so maybe it's just the design of the Notre Dame offense.

Either way, it only took me 5 passes to notice that, and so i watched for it, through 119 passes 84 went right, 9 went left on a dump-off or designed screen to that side, and 6 went left because of a pre-snap read. Not one pass went left as a result of the standard progression of the play. And that really bothered me. Hell, only 20 passes were between the hash-marks (which bugged me too).

Clausen scares me when i watch him. I see his deliberate delivery, and predictable progression and i think "if i was a defensive coordinator it would be really easy to shut him down, and figure out where the play is going". Just 30 plays in and i could tell where every one of his passes was going before he made up his own mind.

On one hand that's a compliment, because he was throwing to open men. On the other hand its a big negative because i was using visual clues that every safety and CB and most LBers in the league will be able to key off. 119 pass and not one pump fake. No kidding. he didn't try once to pump fake. 119 passes and the only time he looked off a safety was during his drop back and he had already decided during the pre-snap read where he was going with the ball (he feet, hips and shoulders gave it away).. that said he did a great job looking off the safeties... even if he was giving signs where the ball was going. This was largely because he made countless excellent pre-snap reads.

He was very well coached, he's like a robot, if you've seen him throw a 10 yard out, it looked the same on every game tape. he threw it on the same moment in every one. He looked identical throwing every one. That's a big compliment to Coach Weis... he clearly coached and developed Clausen well.

Will he succeed at the pro level? Maybe. he has a lot to overcome and develop. any team taking him in round one would be advised to keep him on the bench for a few weeks. He might even see some success early if he starts right away. but the QB i saw in those 3 games wouldn't have to play long (just 2 or 3 games) before defensive coordinators started to prey on his bad habits.


Probably first QB off the board. astronomically high bust potential.

[Mahdi]

Minus that whole winning issue just to make one obvious point amongst a few others.
Oh so Flacco is a winner because he beat down on weak college programs?

How bout we just look at what he did for his unit which is offense. ND averaged 30 points a game last season their defense gave up 25 points per game and nearly 400 yards of total offense a game. That means ND defense is on the field quite a bit while Clausen rides the bench.

Sanchez had the benefit of the top defense in college football, Matt Ryan also had a strong defense. Flacco played against weak teams.

You can't judge a QB on the win loss column. Watch him play and judge his ability to play the position.

And if you compare Clausen's traits as a QB to Ryan, Flacco and Sanchez they will be quite similar and in fact Clausen has the edge in some categories.

Just look at a guy like Stafford, he was an underachiever at Georgia. He has a very strong arm and decent accuracy but he underachieved yet he still went #1. Clausen is a much better prospect.

[elltrain22]

Clausen is a great talent, but Kiper's opinion, IMO, means jack crap!! I love it how he is getting phased out of draft coverage for Todd McShay.

[HAMMER]

I think I'll listen to the guy that has been doing this for over twenty years before I'll take the word of a couple wannabe Junior GM's on a message board.

[Mahdi]

Here are some general pointers from Ingtar's scouting report on Clausen.



Also, here's his overall thoughts:

K Let's see...


1. No he does not have a long throwing motion. I have watched him play and his motion is just fine. He has a very good release so I don't know where Ingtar sees that.

2. Not sure about that 3/4 motion but many QBs get away with that, not just Rivers.

3. Clausen throws great on the run so not sure where he gets that from either. As for throwing on the run to his left, sorry but right handed QBs rarely scramble left to throw except for on a few misdirection plays.

4. He doesn' throw enough slant routes? So what, maybe they aren't called, the fact that he likes throwing outs and posts is enough to convince me that he can hit a slant if he wanted to. Slants are not as hard to throw as skinny posts or deep outs anyways.


Sorry but I don't buy Ingtar's breakdown of Clausen. He probably has a ton of knowledge but I don't agree with his assessment and many others don't either.

[Dicknoze69]

I think I'll listen to the guy that has been doing this for over twenty years before I'll take the word of a couple wannabe Junior GM's on a message board.

That's exactly why I posted Ingtar's thoughts. The ideas and thoughts of someone who did this as a career are enlightening and I didn't want a great post to get lost in the Scouting Zone.

[ddaryl]

Kiper misses quite a bit, so I won't be listening

but I am not down on Clausen either... I need ot study his accuracy as well as his pocket prescence some more....

I'm also unfazed by the ****y attitude questions

[ddaryl]

K Let's see...


3. Clausen throws great on the run so not sure where he gets that from either. As for throwing on the run to his left, sorry but right handed QBs rarely scramble left to throw except for on a few misdirection plays.



I watched some tape on Bradford and the one thing that stood out was how incredibly accurate he was rolling left or right and being accurate....

[THATHURMANATOR]

Kiper misses quite a bit, so I won't be listening

but I am not down on Clausen either... I need ot study his accuracy as well as his pocket prescence some more....

I'm also unfazed by the ****y attitude questions
Hey does look kinda Douchy in this pic though...
<img src=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/102007-JimmyClausen.jpg/250px-102007-JimmyClausen.jpg>

[ddaryl]

Hey does look kinda Douchy in this pic though...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/102007-JimmyClausen.jpg/250px-102007-JimmyClausen.jpg




Back when I was a kid, life was going swell.
Till something happened, blew every thing to hell.
That night my daddy stumbled in, all pale and weak,
Said "A woman up the block just gave birth to a geek."
Mom said, "Sell it to the circus, what the heck."
Dad said, "Nope, this one's a pencil neck.
And if there's one thing lower than a side show freak,
It's a grit eatin', scum suckin', pencil neck geek."

You see if you take a pencil that won't hold lead,
Looks like a pipe cleaner attached to a head,
Add a buggy whip body with a brain that leaks,
You got yourself a grit eatin', pencil neck geek.

(chorus)
Pencil neck geek, grit eatin' freak,
scum suckin', pea head with a lousy physique.
He's a one man, no gut, loosing streak.
Nothin' but a pencil neck geek.

[don137]

If Mike Mayock said it I would put a lot more credibility to that statement but since it was Kiper then it does not have much value.

[Mahdi]

I watched some tape on Bradford and the one thing that stood out was how incredibly accurate he was rolling left or right and being accurate....
My point is not that you can't throw on the run to your left. It's that OC rarely call it because the options are limited.

It makes for a great play action play but I don't see it as something you can call as a deficiency in Clausen just because he rarely does it.

[Mahdi]

If Mike Mayock said it I would put a lot more credibility to that statement but since it was Kiper then it does not have much value.
Mayock said Clausen is not a #1 overall pick.

Didn't say if #9 is a suitable spot though. We will have to see what he says later in the draft process.

[ddaryl]

My point is not that you can't throw on the run to your left. It's that OC rarely call it because the options are limited.

It makes for a great play action play but I don't see it as something you can call as a deficiency in Clausen just because he rarely does it.

I agree.. It was just real impresive to see Bradford do it well, and I wanted to make that statement. Most QB's can't do it without being woefully inaccurate the majority of the time.

[SABURZFAN]

I like Clausen a lot and the only reason people hate him cause he's a douche bag by perception. Though teammates love him and the kid is tough. He was well coached and has a ton of experience. Get him and then trade up for a LT.


i TOTALLY disagree with everything you say. :down:

[circlethewagons]

Didn't Mcshay say he wasnt worth a 1st round pick? sound like theres quite a range of opinions on this kid. Hopefully the Combine will sort out his draft stock

[Mahdi]

Didn't Mcshay say he wasnt worth a 1st round pick? sound like theres quite a range of opinions on this kid. Hopefully the Combine will sort out his draft stock
Combine is not very useful for QBs. Pro Days are way more effective for grading a QB prospect.

At the end of the day though its game film that describes a QB best.

[Tatonka]

Hey does look kinda Douchy in this pic though...
<img src=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/102007-JimmyClausen.jpg/250px-102007-JimmyClausen.jpg>

thats what i said.. he looks like a homo.. we dont need more homo's here.

[realdealryan]

thats what i said.. he looks like a homo.. we dont need more homo's here.

he can be trisexual if we win a sb

[Tatonka]

they dont win superbowls.. but i hear you.

[Demon]

Jimmy Clausen is the most UNDERRATED player in the whole draft.

Since when do we take Kiper's word seriously?

[BILLSROCK1212]

does Taylor Mays=Darnell Bing??

[Mitchell55]

My opinion is Clausen will either be Kelly or George. No in between with his confidense

[DraftBoy]

Oh so Flacco is a winner because he beat down on weak college programs?

How bout we just look at what he did for his unit which is offense. ND averaged 30 points a game last season their defense gave up 25 points per game and nearly 400 yards of total offense a game. That means ND defense is on the field quite a bit while Clausen rides the bench.

Sanchez had the benefit of the top defense in college football, Matt Ryan also had a strong defense. Flacco played against weak teams.

You can't judge a QB on the win loss column. Watch him play and judge his ability to play the position.

And if you compare Clausen's traits as a QB to Ryan, Flacco and Sanchez they will be quite similar and in fact Clausen has the edge in some categories.

Just look at a guy like Stafford, he was an underachiever at Georgia. He has a very strong arm and decent accuracy but he underachieved yet he still went #1. Clausen is a much better prospect.

Ah yes so lets let stats tell us the whole story because we know quality of schedule, and talented players around them are all on the same level playing field. For instance of the QB's you named above how many of them were throwing to an All-American?

And please don't start with the W/L thing Ive repeated several times that the Wins and Losses are not just on Jimmy. How many times do I need to repeat it? The point I was making is that Jimmy has won nothing of substance, not a Conference Title, Not a playoff game nothing, so its a question mark. His results are a mix bag over his career in the biggest games which there were few of. So unlike with Sanchez, Ryan, Flacco, and Stafford we know how they play in the biggest games in the country, we don't know that about Jimmy.

Stafford's issues were and always will be his decision making, if you'll recall last year I said I didnt think he was worth the #1 overall selection then, not that it matters much.

And for the record for those who prefer Mayock;


I asked Mayock if there's any chance that a quarterback could move into that first overall pick and he said it was highly doubtful.

"I think it's a big reach,'' Mayock said. "The logical guy is (Oklahoma's Sam) Bradford. I'm not a big (Jimmy) Clausen fan. No way in the world in my mind -that's today, I've still got a lot more work to do on Bradford. Those two players (Suh and McCoy) just dwarf the quarterback issue.''
http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2010/01/mike_mayock_ndamukong_suh_and.html

He doesn't really like Jimmy Clausen either.

[better days]

Ah yes so lets let stats tell us the whole story because we know quality of schedule, and talented players around them are all on the same level playing field. For instance of the QB's you named above how many of them were throwing to an All-American?

And please don't start with the W/L thing Ive repeated several times that the Wins and Losses are not just on Jimmy. How many times do I need to repeat it? The point I was making is that Jimmy has won nothing of substance, not a Conference Title, Not a playoff game nothing, so its a question mark. His results are a mix bag over his career in the biggest games which there were few of. So unlike with Sanchez, Ryan, Flacco, and Stafford we know how they play in the biggest games in the country, we don't know that about Jimmy.

Stafford's issues were and always will be his decision making, if you'll recall last year I said I didnt think he was worth the #1 overall selection then, not that it matters much.

And for the record for those who prefer Mayock;


http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2010/01/mike_mayock_ndamukong_suh_and.html

He doesn't really like Jimmy Clausen either.

Well, I will tell you who has won & won & won, against the best competition & in the biggest games in College Football............Tim Tebow.

[hydro]

Well, I will tell you who has won & won & won, against the best competition & in the biggest games in College Football............Tim Tebow.

He cried for your sins!

[Mahdi]

Ah yes so lets let stats tell us the whole story because we know quality of schedule, and talented players around them are all on the same level playing field. For instance of the QB's you named above how many of them were throwing to an All-American?

And please don't start with the W/L thing Ive repeated several times that the Wins and Losses are not just on Jimmy. How many times do I need to repeat it? The point I was making is that Jimmy has won nothing of substance, not a Conference Title, Not a playoff game nothing, so its a question mark. His results are a mix bag over his career in the biggest games which there were few of. So unlike with Sanchez, Ryan, Flacco, and Stafford we know how they play in the biggest games in the country, we don't know that about Jimmy.

Stafford's issues were and always will be his decision making, if you'll recall last year I said I didnt think he was worth the #1 overall selection then, not that it matters much.

And for the record for those who prefer Mayock;


http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2010/01/mike_mayock_ndamukong_suh_and.html

He doesn't really like Jimmy Clausen either.
He doesn't like him at #1 overall. At 9 though it's not a reach.

I think playing USC was a big game and Clausen played very well in that game. 260 yards 2 TDs no INTs. And his offense put up 27 points on them. USC scored 34 though.

[Dying_-2-_Live]

I happen to believe Sam Bradford, Derrick Morgan, and Brandon Graham are all way more underrated than Clausen... But I def not saying im upset if we pick him.

Ive been saying Bradford or Clausen all along

[DraftBoy]

He doesn't like him at #1 overall. At 9 though it's not a reach.

I think playing USC was a big game and Clausen played very well in that game. 260 yards 2 TDs no INTs. And his offense put up 27 points on them. USC scored 34 though.


What does the quote say? "Im not a Clausen fan" spin it however you so choose.

Also it would be fair to post Clausen's career numbers v. USC not just his better of the two games, which completely glosses over the total body of work;

Career v. USC;
35 of 65 53.8%, 301 yards, 2 TD and 2 INT

[SABURZFAN]

What does the quote say? "Im not a Clausen fan" spin it however you so choose.

Also it would be fair to post Clausen's career numbers v. USC not just his better of the two games, which completely glosses over the total body of work;

Career v. USC;
35 of 65 53.8%, 301 yards, 2 TD and 2 INT


beating up on cupcake defenses like Washington St, Nevada, and Stanford earns him that accuracy tag and brings him up to 68% though. :rolleyes:

[jamze132]

He loves Clausen, I disagree, I think he is one of the more overrated. Not the first or last time we'll disagree.
Why do you disagree?

[BuffaloBlitz83]

T, what's with the homophobia. Who cares if he's gay or not.It's about winning games and there is no correlation to being gay and losing or winning

[Ingtar33]

beating up on cupcake defenses like Washington St, Nevada, and Stanford earns him that accuracy tag and brings him up to 68% though. :rolleyes:


no but throwing 45% of his passes as some form of screen or swing pass certainly boosts his accuracy a bit.

take away his screen passes and he's only a 53% completion QB, then take away his swing and dump-off passes and he's a 47% completion QB.

[Bert102176]

BS I'm a fan of Notre Dame and he isn't very accurate

[FlyingDutchman]

<HR style="COLOR: #f3f3ff" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->http://chethondo.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/x-20070109123009046.jpg


http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/3849/staffordparty9.jpg


http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2008/writers/gene_menez/12/08/mccoy.questions/t1_mccoyqa.jpghttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CezbgHDlN3A/SRMVmanuJfI/AAAAAAAAC8c/6gIalSRgIh0/s1600/rachel-glandorf-1.jpg







http://www.unathleticmag.com/wp-content/uploads/51.jpg
<!-- / message -->

[Novacane]

LOL. Are you trying to say Clausen is the only QB that hangs with ugly chicks?

[dogg]

Kiper also had Brohm as the best player in his draft...........

[Thief]

they dont win superbowls.. but i hear you.Approximately one out of 10 SB winning QBs was gay. Or, in the least, looked extremely gay.

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa298/mllakin2605/Sports%20Album/tom-brady-02.jpg

[mrbojanglezs]

i dont like him at all.. he looks gay.

http://206forthetwenties.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/clausen.jpg

[Mr. Pink]

Claussen = wishes he was as good as Brady Quinn.

[HAMMER]

Claussen = wishes he was as good as Brady Quinn.

Claussen likes the pickle.

[Griff]

I think whats more amazing is that Kiper still has a job, Draftboy is more knowledgeable than that clown.