My updated mock

[kernowboy]

Now we've got the 3-4 defence confirmed, I thought it would be about time I made some changes to my mock draft - ie. what I hope Nix/Whaley would do.

I think we might trade down a little in the 2nd and 3rd rounds on Day2 to get some extra Day3 picks to add to our depth. I have however included 3 players being traded:

Donte Whitner for a 3rd, principally because I think Wilson can do his job and he is in the final year of his contract - maybe Cleveland with Pool concussed
Mashawn Lynch for a 4th (maybe a 3rd) as I see some teams like Seattle with some needs thinking it a decent fix and maybe also offering us something in 2011 like the McGahee deal
Kyle Williams for a 3rd, simply as he's a really poor fit for a 3-4 defence and I see someone like the Saints looking at a partner for Ellis especially as Clancy is getting old


R1. Bruce Campbell LT
You could put Bulaga or Davis here. Firstly this pick keeps our QB horizontal whether they be a Free Agent or someone like Brohm or Edwards. Secondly the defence will be better as the offense will be on the field longer

R2. Rob Gronkoswki TE
A big target for the QB allowing Nelson to use his speed as a slot receiver

R3a. Sean Lee ILB (Whitner)
Not McClain but still a day one starter

R3b. CJ Wilson DE
Big enough at 6ft4, 284lbs to hold up against the run and rush the passer

R4a. Linval Joseph NT/DE (Lynch)
A big guy who can play NT or DE depending how big we want the front 3 to be

R4b. Naaman Roosevelt WR
Depth at receiver allowing us to let Reed go

R4c. EJ Wilson DE (Williams)
Another big college end at 6ft3, 290lbs

R5. Danny Battlen OLB
From South Dakota but at the Senior Bowl he did everything. Not ideal athleticism but just a guy who always gets the job done. Could play 4-3 OLB if we occasionally switched

R6a. James Starks RB
Back up for Fred-x who'd have gone earlier if not for injury in the senior season

R6b. Jay Ross NT (Peters-Eagles)
We have nothing in depth so if we want to have two big DEs in Joseph and Stroud we need depth at NT

R7a. Van Eskridge S (Simpson-Detroit)
A Byrd clone at FS who will give us good safety depth and can play a little CB

R7b. Cory Jackson FB
Running the football, lets give Fred-x the best chance of getting 1,400yds

I think in this draft we will stock up on the front 3.

Whilst I haven't gone for OLB, I think the team will look to see how Ellis, Maybin and even Kelsay transition before drafting high on a 4-3 guy who will also have to transition

I think think about a developmental QB, but with Edwards and Brohm getting as many snaps as possible under the guidance of Gailey/Cortez, I thought we can get a clipboard holder as an UDFA

[Mahdi]

I don't really like the picks too much. Campbell is a boom or bust guy he can be John Ogden and he can also be Mandarich. We need a guy that is accomplished with few holes in his game with our first pick.

Brandon Graham for me is a safe and exciting pick that will come in right away and solidify the OLB spot. I would be happy with other choices as well.


Don't like the TE selection in round 2. Yes Gronkowski is a good player but we stole Nelson last year and we need help at QB and on the lines way too much to grab a TE in round 2.

I like your picks from 3b. on.

[DraftBoy]

So you want every ECU lineman that is draft eligible?

ECU ranked 27th in Run D, but 107th in Pass D, and 71st overall...Not much success there to warrant taking all three of their lineman.

Wilson only had 5 sacks last season as an end and neither Joseph, Wilson, or Ross finished in the top 6 on the team in tackles. I just dont see the reason to take all their guys.

[kernowboy]

I don't really like the picks too much. Campbell is a boom or bust guy he can be John Ogden and he can also be Mandarich. We need a guy that is accomplished with few holes in his game with our first pick.

Brandon Graham for me is a safe and exciting pick that will come in right away and solidify the OLB spot. I would be happy with other choices as well.


Don't like the TE selection in round 2. Yes Gronkowski is a good player but we stole Nelson last year and we need help at QB and on the lines way too much to grab a TE in round 2.

I like your picks from 3b. on.

Graham is not a number 9 selection in my opinion. There is no way of knowing how he'd transition to the 3-4.

Unless we go R1 for QB, we might as well go with Brohm who I think is the equal of any R2 possibility in this draft and maybe revisit the position next year if necessary.

I went TE, as having lost Owens and Reed, with the need for Hardy to step up and Nelson still being a wildcard, the QB needs a target, and most top teams have two starting calibre TEs

[kernowboy]

So you want every ECU lineman that is draft eligible?

ECU ranked 27th in Run D, but 107th in Pass D, and 71st overall...Not much success there to warrant taking all three of their lineman.

Wilson only had 5 sacks last season as an end and neither Joseph, Wilson, or Ross finished in the top 6 on the team in tackles. I just dont see the reason to take all their guys.

Is it my imagination but are DLmen high on a team in terms of the number of tackles?

[Don't Panic]

I wouldn't trade Whitner or Lynch. Never going to get equal value back for them. Williams or someone like Kelsay or Denney may be options, as they may be viewed not to fit, but Lynch and Whitner still have upside that we can not equally recover in a trade.

[DraftBoy]

Is it my imagination but are DLmen high on a team in terms of the number of tackles?

The good ones are.

And you didn't answer the question as to why you support drating every ECU lineman despite a mixed bag of results with them.

[Mahdi]

Graham is not a number 9 selection in my opinion. There is no way of knowing how he'd transition to the 3-4.

Unless we go R1 for QB, we might as well go with Brohm who I think is the equal of any R2 possibility in this draft and maybe revisit the position next year if necessary.

I went TE, as having lost Owens and Reed, with the need for Hardy to step up and Nelson still being a wildcard, the QB needs a target, and most top teams have two starting calibre TEs
Graham is not a #9 selection right now for most, but he will climb the boards and his film and production doesn't lie.

Many are turned off by his height at only 6'1 but he makes good use of it as Freeney does.

[DraftBoy]

Graham is not a #9 selection right now for most, but he will climb the boards and his film and production doesn't lie.

Many are turned off by his height at only 6'1 but he makes good use of it as Freeney does.

The Combine may hurt him in all honesty, he won't test great while guys like Dunlap should kill the combine. Right now I have him as a borderline top 20 pick, Id love for him to fall to Round 2.

[kernowboy]

The good ones are.

And you didn't answer the question as to why you support drating every ECU lineman despite a mixed bag of results with them.

Because individually I think they are talented players, with the right upside, size and with good coaching could step up. They would be players moving up, rather than those sliding down.

[k-oneputt]

Your Buffalo area connection of players is cute but I don't want any of those players, especially where you have them being picked.

T-end in 2nd rd. ???
I can find many wr's in the 4th before Roosevelt.
Same with Starks at rb, and he's coming off of an injury.

Campbell at 9 ? no thanks.

[Mahdi]

The Combine may hurt him in all honesty, he won't test great while guys like Dunlap should kill the combine. Right now I have him as a borderline top 20 pick, Id love for him to fall to Round 2.
I think Graham will lift well and run a decent 40. Probably between 4.65 and 4.72. Which would be fine.

When I compare JPP to Graham there are many differences but one that really sticks out is that when JPP gets into the backfield which he does often, he tends to wiff on the sack or the tackle. His ability to lock in on ball carriers is not very good and he tends to look a bit clumsy.

Graham on the other hand is like a heat seeking missile. Just locks on and blows sh** up.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Now we've got the 3-4 defence confirmed, I thought it would be about time I made some changes to my mock draft - ie. what I hope Nix/Whaley would do.

I think we might trade down a little in the 2nd and 3rd rounds on Day2 to get some extra Day3 picks to add to our depth. I have however included 3 players being traded:

Donte Whitner for a 3rd, principally because I think Wilson can do his job and he is in the final year of his contract - maybe Cleveland with Pool concussed
Mashawn Lynch for a 4th (maybe a 3rd) as I see some teams like Seattle with some needs thinking it a decent fix and maybe also offering us something in 2011 like the McGahee deal
Kyle Williams for a 3rd, simply as he's a really poor fit for a 3-4 defence and I see someone like the Saints looking at a partner for Ellis especially as Clancy is getting old


R1. Bruce Campbell LT
You could put Bulaga or Davis here. Firstly this pick keeps our QB horizontal whether they be a Free Agent or someone like Brohm or Edwards. Secondly the defence will be better as the offense will be on the field longer

R2. Rob Gronkoswki TE
A big target for the QB allowing Nelson to use his speed as a slot receiver

R3a. Sean Lee ILB (Whitner)
Not McClain but still a day one starter

R3b. CJ Wilson DE
Big enough at 6ft4, 284lbs to hold up against the run and rush the passer

R4a. Linval Joseph NT/DE (Lynch)
A big guy who can play NT or DE depending how big we want the front 3 to be

R4b. Naaman Roosevelt WR
Depth at receiver allowing us to let Reed go

R4c. EJ Wilson DE (Williams)
Another big college end at 6ft3, 290lbs

R5. Danny Battlen OLB
From South Dakota but at the Senior Bowl he did everything. Not ideal athleticism but just a guy who always gets the job done. Could play 4-3 OLB if we occasionally switched

R6a. James Starks RB
Back up for Fred-x who'd have gone earlier if not for injury in the senior season

R6b. Jay Ross NT (Peters-Eagles)
We have nothing in depth so if we want to have two big DEs in Joseph and Stroud we need depth at NT

R7a. Van Eskridge S (Simpson-Detroit)
A Byrd clone at FS who will give us good safety depth and can play a little CB

R7b. Cory Jackson FB
Running the football, lets give Fred-x the best chance of getting 1,400yds

I think in this draft we will stock up on the front 3.

Whilst I haven't gone for OLB, I think the team will look to see how Ellis, Maybin and even Kelsay transition before drafting high on a 4-3 guy who will also have to transition

I think think about a developmental QB, but with Edwards and Brohm getting as many snaps as possible under the guidance of Gailey/Cortez, I thought we can get a clipboard holder as an UDFA
You are against a QB in the first because you are afraid of a bust and you want them to take a project Tackle.???

[THATHURMANATOR]

Also giving way to much creedence to an offensive lineman. The defense will be off the field longer because of an LT? Sure indirectly to some degree I suppose but not a major reason.

[BillsWin]

Tightend in the second round would be a wasted pick in my opinion. Schouman was playing outside his mind before getting hurt, Nelson is developing into a consistent wide receiving threat and Fine is a blocking TE.

If you want to upgrade, that's ok, but we shouldn't do it in the second round. Not when you have so many needs.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Tightend in the second round would be a wasted pick in my opinion. Schouman was playing outside his mind before getting hurt, Nelson is developing into a consistent wide receiving threat and Fine is a blocking TE.

If you want to upgrade, that's ok, but we shouldn't do it in the second round. Not when you have so many needs.
Again agreed. Wasnt that TE also hurt all last year?

[DraftBoy]

I think Graham will lift well and run a decent 40. Probably between 4.65 and 4.72. Which would be fine.

When I compare JPP to Graham there are many differences but one that really sticks out is that when JPP gets into the backfield which he does often, he tends to wiff on the sack or the tackle. His ability to lock in on ball carriers is not very good and he tends to look a bit clumsy.

Graham on the other hand is like a heat seeking missile. Just locks on and blows sh** up.

I completely agree but don't be surprised to see Graham run a 4.75 or higher, he's not that fast, he's just insanely quick. While guys like Dunlap, JPP, Morgan, and others may run sub 4.65 which is insane for a DE. I think Graham will finish middle of the pack in lifting but he may finished lower half in the 40. If he runs sub 4.65 and lifts well his stock will sky rocket and he could be in play for the 9th pick.

[DraftBoy]

Because individually I think they are talented players, with the right upside, size and with good coaching could step up. They would be players moving up, rather than those sliding down.

And Im going to ask again what you saw? I understand you like the guys, hence why you mocked them to us, but what did you like about them? What did they show you?

[justasportsfan]

With Edwards wanting to switch to 3-4, I think we will draft towards it. DL .

[Mahdi]

I completely agree but don't be surprised to see Graham run a 4.75 or higher, he's not that fast, he's just insanely quick. While guys like Dunlap, JPP, Morgan, and others may run sub 4.65 which is insane for a DE. I think Graham will finish middle of the pack in lifting but he may finished lower half in the 40. If he runs sub 4.65 and lifts well his stock will sky rocket and he could be in play for the 9th pick.
We already have the guy who had the crazy workout last year. Maybin ran a 4.59. We need a football player which Graham is. I would be happy with him even if he runs a 4.75. His power and quickness make up for it and in short areas a fast 40 doesn't mean much. His 10 yard split will be more interesting.

[DrGraves]

tight end in round 2... what are you smokin?

[DraftBoy]

We already have the guy who had the crazy workout last year. Maybin ran a 4.59. We need a football player which Graham is. I would be happy with him even if he runs a 4.75. His power and quickness make up for it and in short areas a fast 40 doesn't mean much. His 10 yard split will be more interesting.


Im not speaking in terms of him coming to us just general value. Honestly switching to the 3-4 I like him a lot less for us. I think his best fit is as a 4-3 hand on the ground DE.

[justasportsfan]

I think we might trade down a little in the 2nd and 3rd rounds on Day2 to get some extra Day3 picks to add to our depth. I have however included 3 players being traded:

Donte Whitner for a 3rd, principally because I think Wilson can do his job and he is in the final year of his contract - maybe Cleveland with Pool concussed
Mashawn Lynch for a 4th (maybe a 3rd) as I see some teams like Seattle with some needs thinking it a decent fix and maybe also offering us something in 2011 like the McGahee deal
Kyle Williams for a 3rd, simply as he's a really poor fit for a 3-4 defence and I see someone like the Saints looking at a partner for Ellis especially as Clancy is getting old





You think KYle and Whitner are worth more than Lynch in a trade?

I doubt Lynch will be traded especially since Gailey loves to run the ball especially for only a 4th.

[Mahdi]

Im not speaking in terms of him coming to us just general value. Honestly switching to the 3-4 I like him a lot less for us. I think his best fit is as a 4-3 hand on the ground DE.
What about him does not appeal to you as a OLB in a 3-4? He has everything you need for the position.

I think too much is made out of it sometimes. Guys like Ware, Merriman and Dumervil play with their hand in the ground quite a bit.

[DraftBoy]

What about him does not appeal to you as a OLB in a 3-4? He has everything you need for the position.

I think too much is made out of it sometimes. Guys like Ware, Merriman and Dumervil play with their hand in the ground quite a bit.


Because his skills are best sutied to disengage which was never the case with Ware or Merriman. Graham has superior pass rush skills because he can keep the OT's hands off of him, his first step is killer and he has great spin and swim moves to the inside.

He does not translate well to playing in space like a 3-4 OLB has to do, his coverage skills are minimal and yes that kind of stuff can be taught, but Im not sure he is the best transitional candidate compared to guys like Hughes and Sapp. Graham is a perfect 4-3 DE in terms of size, speed, and pass rush moves. Moving him may cause you to lose some of that.

[Mahdi]

Because his skills are best sutied to disengage which was never the case with Ware or Merriman. Graham has superior pass rush skills because he can keep the OT's hands off of him, his first step is killer and he has great spin and swim moves to the inside.

He does not translate well to playing in space like a 3-4 OLB has to do, his coverage skills are minimal and yes that kind of stuff can be taught, but Im not sure he is the best transitional candidate compared to guys like Hughes and Sapp. Graham is a perfect 4-3 DE in terms of size, speed, and pass rush moves. Moving him may cause you to lose some of that.
Dumervil and Ware weren't OLBs either. And all those qualities of Graham you mentioned are just as easily translated to OLB.

The only thing Graham would have to do differently than he is doing now is play in space at times and the is that case for almost every rush OLB in the NFL. Most of them were DEs in college.

[DraftBoy]

Dumervil and Ware weren't OLBs either. And all those qualities of Graham you mentioned are just as easily translated to OLB.

The only thing Graham would have to do differently than he is doing now is play in space at times and the is that case for almost every rush OLB in the NFL. Most of them were DEs in college.

No but Ware did play alot of stand up at Troy as well if you'll remeber correctly, something Graham never did. If you'll notice above I did not include Dumervil in the list because he was a strict 4-3 DE in college and has proven to be an excellent 3-4 OLB. But he was not nearly the 4-3 DE in college that Graham was as Dumervil was stricly a pass rusher where as Graham is a 3 down lineman who plays the run and pass well. So while they are similar in position played they are different in skill sets.

You are way over simplifying the differences between a 4-3 DE and engagement and a 3-4 OLB. Its not just a snap of your fingers thing, some players really can't do it.

[Mahdi]

No but Ware did play alot of stand up at Troy as well if you'll remeber correctly, something Graham never did. If you'll notice above I did not include Dumervil in the list because he was a strict 4-3 DE in college and has proven to be an excellent 3-4 OLB. But he was not nearly the 4-3 DE in college that Graham was as Dumervil was stricly a pass rusher where as Graham is a 3 down lineman who plays the run and pass well. So while they are similar in position played they are different in skill sets.

You are way over simplifying the differences between a 4-3 DE and engagement and a 3-4 OLB. Its not just a snap of your fingers thing, some players really can't do it.
Man, I just don't buy that.

And the fact is, no one knew if Ware would be a good 3-4 OLB, no one knew Merriman would be either, and no one knew Dumervil would be successful either.

Bottom line is, Graham has the skill set to play OLB. He has enough speed, he has the quickness and his abilities as far as engaging linemen and ability to play the run only helps him.

Like I said, there really is only ONE hurdle for Graham and that is if he can handle dropping off into coverage at times. And many players who have not previously had that experience made the switch.

At the end of the day when you are deciding on Graham the only question is, can this guy rush the passer because that will be his bread and butter. Whether he can drop off or not will be determined in the pros.

[Mitchell55]

Lynch for a 4th? He made the pro bowl last year and was a top 15 pick, at RB.

[DraftBoy]

Man, I just don't buy that.

And the fact is, no one knew if Ware would be a good 3-4 OLB, no one knew Merriman would be either, and no one knew Dumervil would be successful either.

[B]Bottom line is, Graham has the skill set to play OLB. He has enough speed, he has the quickness and his abilities as far as engaging linemen and ability to play the run only helps him. [/B

Like I said, there really is only ONE hurdle for Graham and that is if he can handle dropping off into coverage at times. And many players who have not previously had that experience made the switch.

At the end of the day when you are deciding on Graham the only question is, can this guy rush the passer because that will be his bread and butter. Whether he can drop off or not will be determined in the pros.


Bottom line for me is that he projects better as a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB. Graham may be the best pure 4-3 DE in this draft.

[Mahdi]

Bottom line for me is that he projects better as a 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB. Graham may be the best pure 4-3 DE in this draft.
So assuming he runs a 4.69, yer telling me you don't take him as the cornerstone of a hybrid defense?

Just remember that Denver took Ayers last year to play OLB and he had ZERO experience dropping off in coverage.

IMO, Graham is much better suited than Ayers and would be a starter right away at 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB.

[DraftBoy]

So assuming he runs a 4.69, yer telling me you don't take him as the cornerstone of a hybrid defense?

Just remember that Denver took Ayers last year to play OLB and he had ZERO experience dropping off in coverage.

IMO, Graham is much better suited than Ayers and would be a starter right away at 4-3 DE and 3-4 OLB.


Yea and that worked out great for Ayers didn't it? 19 tackles on the season with far more PT than our 1st Round pick Aaron Maybin. Color me impressed.

No I wouldn't pick him, not at 9, maybe in the 2nd round because the value is too great. If we stuck at 4-3 then yea Id probably be more likely to take him at 9.

[Mahdi]

Yea and that worked out great for Ayers didn't it? 19 tackles on the season with far more PT than our 1st Round pick Aaron Maybin. Color me impressed.

No I wouldn't pick him, not at 9, maybe in the 2nd round because the value is too great. If we stuck at 4-3 then yea Id probably be more likely to take him at 9.
Pretty sure Ayers was a rookie. My point is GMs will take a guy to play OLB without previous OLB experience.

And saying that you would take Graham at 9 for a 4-3 but only in the second round for a 3-4 is way too extreme.

And for what? Because yer not sure if he can drop into coverage?


How bout you tell me who you do think fits as an OLB prospect in this draft and what he has that Graham doesn't.

[DraftBoy]

Pretty sure Ayers was a rookie. My point is GMs will take a guy to play OLB without previous OLB experience.

And saying that you would take Graham at 9 for a 4-3 but only in the second round for a 3-4 is way too extreme.

And for what? Because yer not sure if he can drop into coverage?


How bout you tell me who you do think fits as an OLB prospect in this draft and what he has that Graham doesn't.


Now you pull the rookie excuse? Don't bring up a guy and when you see that he was unsuccessful switching then go and claim it was due to being a rookie.

Im not saying I would take Graham at 9 for the 4-3, but weighing guys differently based on your scheme does happen. I wouldnt take Cody ever if I was playing a 4-3 system, but in a 2 gap 3-4 system he makes a lot more sense and is of a much higher value to me. I simply said I think Graham is a more valuable 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB and that he would likely be in the mix for me much at 9 if we were running a 4-3, unlike as of now, when Im not even really considering him.

Ive told you twice now its not just about coverage, its about his play in open space which is the hardest transition these kids have to make. Coverage is a small part of it, for some reason you continue to ignore this and act like he can learn it by clicking his heels together.

I think players that have experience playing rush LB's in college fit better; Sergio Kindle, Ricky Sapp, Jerry Highes amongst others. They have been taught less refinement on pass rush technique and more about just lining up way outside and getting after the QB. They know how to play in space (admittedly to a very small degree) and have experience doing things.

My basic point is this; You don't fix what isn't broken. Graham has the size, speed, and skills to be a very good (if not excellent) 4-3 DE, there is no real reason to switch him to 3-4 OLB. The only reason people advocate it is because they like him and want him to switch, not because he needs to in order to be successful in the NFL.

[X-Era]

Pretty sure Ayers was a rookie. My point is GMs will take a guy to play OLB without previous OLB experience.

And saying that you would take Graham at 9 for a 4-3 but only in the second round for a 3-4 is way too extreme.

And for what? Because yer not sure if he can drop into coverage?


How bout you tell me who you do think fits as an OLB prospect in this draft and what he has that Graham doesn't.

Didn't Ayers play in only 3 games this year?

[DraftBoy]

Didn't Ayers play in only 3 games this year?
15 games with 1 start.

[X-Era]

15 games with 1 start.
Wrong guy, my mistake.

I would agree that Graham isn't worth the 9 pick right now. Personally, I think Morgan is still the top DE. However, I agree that Graham is one of the best DE's in this draft. Does he fit this scheme or that scheme? I cant say, and it seems tough to decide at times. Height wise, no, weight wise maybe. Ability wise? he would seem to.

I think that you want your 3-4 DE's to be more like 4-3 DT's. That you want guys who are tall, strong, and can hold up against the run while being good against the pass.

[X-Era]

Now we've got the 3-4 defence confirmed, I thought it would be about time I made some changes to my mock draft - ie. what I hope Nix/Whaley would do.

I think we might trade down a little in the 2nd and 3rd rounds on Day2 to get some extra Day3 picks to add to our depth. I have however included 3 players being traded:

Donte Whitner for a 3rd, principally because I think Wilson can do his job and he is in the final year of his contract - maybe Cleveland with Pool concussed
Mashawn Lynch for a 4th (maybe a 3rd) as I see some teams like Seattle with some needs thinking it a decent fix and maybe also offering us something in 2011 like the McGahee deal
Kyle Williams for a 3rd, simply as he's a really poor fit for a 3-4 defence and I see someone like the Saints looking at a partner for Ellis especially as Clancy is getting old


R1. Bruce Campbell LT
You could put Bulaga or Davis here. Firstly this pick keeps our QB horizontal whether they be a Free Agent or someone like Brohm or Edwards. Secondly the defence will be better as the offense will be on the field longer

R2. Rob Gronkoswki TE
A big target for the QB allowing Nelson to use his speed as a slot receiver

R3a. Sean Lee ILB (Whitner)
Not McClain but still a day one starter

R3b. CJ Wilson DE
Big enough at 6ft4, 284lbs to hold up against the run and rush the passer

R4a. Linval Joseph NT/DE (Lynch)
A big guy who can play NT or DE depending how big we want the front 3 to be

R4b. Naaman Roosevelt WR
Depth at receiver allowing us to let Reed go

R4c. EJ Wilson DE (Williams)
Another big college end at 6ft3, 290lbs

R5. Danny Battlen OLB
From South Dakota but at the Senior Bowl he did everything. Not ideal athleticism but just a guy who always gets the job done. Could play 4-3 OLB if we occasionally switched

R6a. James Starks RB
Back up for Fred-x who'd have gone earlier if not for injury in the senior season

R6b. Jay Ross NT (Peters-Eagles)
We have nothing in depth so if we want to have two big DEs in Joseph and Stroud we need depth at NT

R7a. Van Eskridge S (Simpson-Detroit)
A Byrd clone at FS who will give us good safety depth and can play a little CB

R7b. Cory Jackson FB
Running the football, lets give Fred-x the best chance of getting 1,400yds

I think in this draft we will stock up on the front 3.

Whilst I haven't gone for OLB, I think the team will look to see how Ellis, Maybin and even Kelsay transition before drafting high on a 4-3 guy who will also have to transition

I think think about a developmental QB, but with Edwards and Brohm getting as many snaps as possible under the guidance of Gailey/Cortez, I thought we can get a clipboard holder as an UDFA

Does this version feature a QB battle between Edwards and Brohm? Who would you like to see as our QB next year?

I like this mock BTW. Roosevelt is a guy I like a lot... if I had one gripe it would be Gronkowski only because I like Nelson so much. Campbell would be a great grab for us.

[Mahdi]

Now you pull the rookie excuse? Don't bring up a guy and when you see that he was unsuccessful switching then go and claim it was due to being a rookie.

Im not saying I would take Graham at 9 for the 4-3, but weighing guys differently based on your scheme does happen. I wouldnt take Cody ever if I was playing a 4-3 system, but in a 2 gap 3-4 system he makes a lot more sense and is of a much higher value to me. I simply said I think Graham is a more valuable 4-3 DE than a 3-4 OLB and that he would likely be in the mix for me much at 9 if we were running a 4-3, unlike as of now, when Im not even really considering him.

Ive told you twice now its not just about coverage, its about his play in open space which is the hardest transition these kids have to make. Coverage is a small part of it, for some reason you continue to ignore this and act like he can learn it by clicking his heels together.

I think players that have experience playing rush LB's in college fit better; Sergio Kindle, Ricky Sapp, Jerry Highes amongst others. They have been taught less refinement on pass rush technique and more about just lining up way outside and getting after the QB. They know how to play in space (admittedly to a very small degree) and have experience doing things.

My basic point is this; You don't fix what isn't broken. Graham has the size, speed, and skills to be a very good (if not excellent) 4-3 DE, there is no real reason to switch him to 3-4 OLB. The only reason people advocate it is because they like him and want him to switch, not because he needs to in order to be successful in the NFL.
Bud, I'm not some fool that doesn't know each and every NFL player. I brought up Ayers knowing full well that he didn't play as a rookie. My point about Ayers is that a GM would still draft a guy who hasn't "played in space" as you call it, to play OLB. Read the post properly.

[DraftBoy]

Bud, I'm not some fool that doesn't know each and every NFL player. I brought up Ayers knowing full well that he didn't play as a rookie. My point about Ayers is that a GM would still draft a guy who hasn't "played in space" as you call it, to play OLB. Read the post properly.


Please stop with internet penis measure contest if I wanted that there about 100 other people to engage with that provide little to no actual information back. I discuss things with you because unlike them you actually know what the hell you are talking about.

My point was that while plenty of GMs take guys to change position its not always a good idea, which is why your Ayers point was so erroneous, because it only hurts your stance not helps, and its not that Ayers lacked PT, he got far more of it than Maybin, but that he really struggled with that small little "playing in space" transition.

[dannyek71]

Kyle Williams is coming off a PB alt year and we only get a 3rd for him?

[Mahdi]

Please stop with internet penis measure contest if I wanted that there about 100 other people to engage with that provide little to no actual information back. I discuss things with you because unlike them you actually know what the hell you are talking about.

My point was that while plenty of GMs take guys to change position its not always a good idea, which is why your Ayers point was so erroneous, because it only hurts your stance not helps, and its not that Ayers lacked PT, he got far more of it than Maybin, but that he really struggled with that small little "playing in space" transition.
I'm not trying to compete. But like I said I brought up Ayers only from the draft perspective not a NFL performance perspective. And my point there was that GMs will draft DEs if they like them and move them to OLB.

Yes, sometimes it fails but there are not many examples of guys who were asked to move to 3-4 OLB and have failed coming out of college. Lately they almost all work out.

And although Graham projects extremely well at DE, those same traits that make him such an attractive DE prospect can be used to validate a move to OLB.

Can he play in space? Who knows. But in reality MOST players drafted to play OLB in 3-4 schemes are unknowns because not many college teams even use a 3-4.

Even if you take a guy like Ricky Sapp for example or even Sergio Kindle, they have a lot more experience playing in space than Graham does, but Graham is much stronger then they are, has more pass rush moves and is better against the run.

There really is no such thing as a complete 3-4 OLB prospect coming out of college. You have to take guys who have enough qualities to play the position and teach the rest.

That being said, I like that Graham has most of what is required to play OLB, if he needs more practice playing in space then that's fine by me you can't teach strength and you can't teach pass rush instincts.

[Dying_-2-_Live]

If we take Campbell.. I wouldnt like it... but i would be ok with it
BUT, if we take a Tight End in the 2nd... Im kicking Nix in the nuts

[oldno711]

R1. Bruce Campbell LT
You could put Bulaga or Davis here. Firstly this pick keeps our QB horizontal whether they be a Free Agent or someone like Brohm or Edwards. Secondly the defence will be better as the offense will be on the field longer

keeps our QB horizontal?

[psubills62]

Kyle Williams is coming off a PB alt year and we only get a 3rd for him?

David Garrard went to the Pro Bowl and he's not worth a 3rd.

[dhasek00]

I am still amazed for the people who want to draft a lineman before we get our QB.

I'll bring this up since people loved Kelly so much.

We drafted him using the 14th overall pick. He's the only QB we've used a top 15 on since 1983. After we got Kelly we went to the playoffs 8 times in his 11 year career with Buffalo. We used 3 1st round picks for lineman after... after... drafting Kelly. Will Wilford (1986), John Fina (1992), and Ruben Brown (1995).

Now tell me again why we 'have' to build a line before taking a QB? History shows us having a 100% success rate when doing it this way in Buffalo (since the NFL was formed).

While Kelly was retired, Ruben Brown made the probowl 8 times in a row. How many times did we make the playoffs after taking the build a line first method since 1996 (Kelly's departure)? Twice.

I'd rather take a QB early and build the line after we get him than taking a probowl lineman and dealing with mediocre QBs.

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http://drafthistory.com


Saints and Colts Take Different Route to Building NFL Super Bowl Lineups

"Neither the Saints nor the Colts expended high draft picks to build the offensive lines that will start in the Super Bowl. The starting lineman drafted earliest for the Saints is Jonathan Stinchcomb, who was selected with the 5th choice in the 2nd round, the 37th player drafted in 2003. The remainder of the Saints' starting offensive linemen are 4th or 5th round picks. The Colts' starting offensive line will have three undrafted players, including perennial Pro Bowl center Jeff Saturday, and a 4th and 6th round draft pick. The last time the Colts expended a first round pick on an offensive linemen was 1997 when they drafted Tarik Glenn of California with the 19th pick. The Saints last chose an offensive linemen in the first round when they selected Jammal Brown of Oklahoma with the 13th pick in 2005. Brown was unable to play this season. In an era when the prevailing thought is that you must have a strong offensive line anchored by a premier left tackle in order to succeed, it is a wonderment how the Colts and Saints flourished with such high octane offenses by constructing their offensive lines without using high draft picks."

Why is it we have to build an Oline using our top picks? If Super Bowl winners don't do it, why should we? The Colts have 3 undrafted lineman.

Some people just don't do their researching before posting. History proves we have done it with Kelly, and current day shows that the best two teams don't do it either. Yet... We still want to model the Jets and build a line for 7 years? Wow...

[kernowboy]

Kyle Williams is coming off a PB alt year and we only get a 3rd for him?

Yes because if you look at trading patterns, fans frequently over value players compared to coaching staff.

Williams had a great year but he can only play in a limit number of defences, hence his limited value.

What is more valuable? Williams who more than likely will struggle in a 3-4 or a 3rd rounder we can use on a viable NT or DE like CJ Wilson or Alex Carrington?

[kernowboy]

Lynch for a 4th? He made the pro bowl last year and was a top 15 pick, at RB.

Lynch ruined his value. Any team who trades for him will be aware that this next suspension - and there will be one because the guy is an idiot - will be for half a season at least.

He may have made a ProBowl but how well did he do this season? History has shown the wheels come off an RB very quickly

We risk having a off-season distraction, a guy who doesn't front up if the mood doesn't suit him as we saw this season gone, a guy who is likely to be moody as he's clearly not going to be the starter, as well as risk him getting his ass suspended again whilst on this roster.

A 4th and something next year, plus drafting a guy who actually wants to be here is the best we can expect.

[kernowboy]

Does this version feature a QB battle between Edwards and Brohm? Who would you like to see as our QB next year?

I like this mock BTW. Roosevelt is a guy I like a lot... if I had one gripe it would be Gronkowski only because I like Nelson so much. Campbell would be a great grab for us.

I see four QBs next year under this arrangement, if Edwards and Brohm don't have a stunning season

1. Andrew Luck - if he comes out after his sophmore season maybe if Harbaugh leaves
2. Pat Devlin - I think we'll have a decent season and be drafting lower in Round 1; for me he's almost got as big an arm as Mallett but is more mobile but not to the level of Locker
3. Ryan Mallett
4. Jake Locker

I've gone Gronkowski because the best teams have two TEs, and I'm not sure if Nelson has the frame to become a true TE. At 240lbs, I'd rather he drop to the 225-230lbs and with his speed (4.52) use his receiving skills like Marques Colston does. He ran good routes in college, often playing as a slot receiver and I think this could be his true vocation.

I've chosen two local guys because the Buffalo programme is undervalued.

If we'd drafted Trevor Scott in 2008, rather than Chris Ellis we'd now have the perfect 3-4 OLB who has already shown he could get to the QB as well as drop back in coverage. We might have then taken Oher over Maybin.

If we'd drafted Jamey Richard in 2008, we might have found overselves passing over Eric Wood for Everette Brown or Ron Brace and when we decided to make the switch this year, already have key components in place for the 3-4 defence.

How long is this front office going to stupidly ignore the talents of individuals playing down the road?

Both Roosevelt and Starks will be drafted and it would be no surprise if in 2-3 years they were both starters