Johnson and Stroud to play DE?

[SeatownBillsFan21]

Spencer Johnson and Marcus Stroud are expected to be moved to defensive end in the Bills' new 3-4 scheme...Kyle Williams and Chris Kelsay, coming off of career seasons, are the odd men out. Williams (305 lbs) is small for a nose tackle while Kelsay (261 lbs) is big for an outside linebacker edge rusher. Expect the Bills to be active once the trading season starts.

Not that this is news to anybody but i like how they throw out there we"ll be ACTIVE come trade time.

[Oaf]

So tough that we're expelling the best defensive lineman we have. I'm not going to rip the move, but this is tough to swallow.

[Griff]

Kelsey is one of our best? ROFL

[SquishDaFish]

I think he was talking about Williams lol

[Griff]

I think he was talking about Williams lol

I guess he forgot about Schobel.

[Don't Panic]

It'll be interesting to see if we can get anything for Kelsay. I wouldn't think we could... still not sold on Williams not being our situational DT/backup NT next year, unless we could get a mid-round pick for him.

[Scumbag College]

I think Williams would be quick and athletic enough to be a decent DE in a 3-4. Plus, he's one of my favorite Bills so I hope they keep him around.

[better days]

I think Williams would be quick and athletic enough to be a decent DE in a 3-4. Plus, he's one of my favorite Bills so I hope they keep him around.

I agree. I think he is quicker than Stroud, & the Bills will play 4-3 part of the time as well. If they trade him they better get at least a #3 for him.

[Mahdi]

I agree. I think he is quicker than Stroud, & the Bills will play 4-3 part of the time as well. If they trade him they better get at least a #3 for him.
Quicker than Stroud but he is too short for a DE in a 3-4.

A lot of the time a 3-4 DE, known as 5 -technique will not be able to get to the QB, they are often double teamed. Therefore they use their height to get their arms up in the face of the QB and cover up passing lanes and QB vision.

At 6'0 or 6'1 KW will not be able to get his arms up to block throws and he certainly won't have enough power to collapse the pocket.


The only position I see KW playing in this defense is rotational NT. He can come in on passing downs and use his speed to rush the QB.

[better days]

Quicker than Stroud but he is too short for a DE in a 3-4.

A lot of the time a 3-4 DE, known as 5 -technique will not be able to get to the QB, they are often double teamed. Therefore they use their height to get their arms up in the face of the QB and cover up passing lanes and QB vision.

At 6'0 or 6'1 KW will not be able to get his arms up to block throws and he certainly won't have enough power to collapse the pocket.


The only position I see KW playing in this defense is rotational NT. He can come in on passing downs and use his speed to rush the QB.

I agree he is not prototypical hight for a 3-4 DE, but if he gets his arms up he is tall enough that he can get in the QB's face, & as I said I think they will play 4-3 part of the time.

Some guys are just football players even though they are smaller than average, Sam Mills, Steve Smith, London Fletcher for example. Well Kyle Williams is a football player.

[Mahdi]

I agree he is not prototypical hight for a 3-4 DE, but if he gets his arms up he is tall enough that he can get in the QB's face, & as I said I think they will play 4-3 part of the time.

Some guys are just football players even though they are smaller than average, Sam Mills, Steve Smith, London Fletcher for example. Well Kyle Williams is a football player.
Yes, I agree, some guys are just good football players but really KW is an effort guy. He has a great motor but he really is not that fast and really not that strong.

And as for getting his arms up, short linemen rarely affect a QB's line of sight. Guys like Stroud are good at it because they have great length and long arms to boot. KW will be a dip in the line that QBs will see right over no problem.

Spencer and Stroud is exactly what I expected though at DE.

[McBFLO]

What about Denney then? He's never really been a favorite of mine, but he's definitely a heavy, and taller, DE. Would he be a good fit as a 3-4 DE? If being tall to cover passing lanes and generally get in the QBs field of vision, he seems like he'd be a good fit.

[Mahdi]

What about Denney then? He's never really been a favorite of mine, but he's definitely a heavy, and taller, DE. Would he be a good fit as a 3-4 DE? If being tall to cover passing lanes and generally get in the QBs field of vision, he seems like he'd be a good fit.
Denney is tall enough but he is only 260 or 265. He is very slender and not a strong DE at all.

Denney will not be brought back this year.

[OpIv37]

Johnson played both de and dt in the 4-3, so my guess is that he'd make a good rotational de for the 3-4. I don't know if he's good enough to be a starter.

And I hate to say this because I like Stroud, but I think he's done. His play has steadily declined since coming to Buffalo and he had a brutal season. And he's not a great fit for the 3-4. Don't be surpised to see him cut or traded.

[Nighthawk]

So tough that we're expelling the best defensive lineman we have. I'm not going to rip the move, but this is tough to swallow.

All that says is how bad the team is...

[YardRat]

I'd really hate to lose Williams, but if he doesn't fit he doesn't fit.

[JCBills]

I think Williams would be quick and athletic enough to be a decent DE in a 3-4. Plus, he's one of my favorite Bills so I hope they keep him around.

It's not that he isn't quick enough.

He's not tall enough, and has short arms. He'll get swallowed by the bigger OTs. I love him as a player, but his biggest value to us it in trade.

[Goobylal]

Williams isn't going anywhere. He's signed for another 3 years. He'll be tried at DE along with Stroud and Johnson, and will play inside in 4-3 alignments. The Bills won't be using the 3-4 for every defensive snap of every game.

[HHURRICANE]

Spencer Johnson and Marcus Stroud are expected to be moved to defensive end in the Bills' new 3-4 scheme...Kyle Williams and Chris Kelsay, coming off of career seasons, are the odd men out. Williams (305 lbs) is small for a nose tackle while Kelsay (261 lbs) is big for an outside linebacker edge rusher. Expect the Bills to be active once the trading season starts.

Not that this is news to anybody but i like how they throw out there we"ll be ACTIVE come trade time.

I actually like this move!!

[Goobylal]

It's not that he isn't quick enough.

He's not tall enough, and has short arms. He'll get swallowed by the bigger OTs. I love him as a player, but his biggest value to us it in trade.
Being shorter, he'll have a distinct leverage advantage against taller (compared to inside OL) OT's. And it's overstated how many 3-4 DE's put their arms up to block passes. It happens maybe once a game at best.

[tampabay25690]

Stroud and Spencer Johnson as DE that is a good move....
Stroud will take up 2 guys and leave our OLB on that side open to rush or make tackles.....
Johnson is a good DL and will help our run defense as well...

The real key to all of this is our LB crew........
They need to make tackles and rush the passer.....

[OpIv37]

Williams isn't going anywhere. He's signed for another 3 years. He'll be tried at DE along with Stroud and Johnson, and will play inside in 4-3 alignments. The Bills won't be using the 3-4 for every defensive snap of every game.

Williams is a bad fit for this D. When 3-4 teams go to a 4-3 alignment, they generally do so by having one of the OLB's come up and put his hand in the dirt. 3-4 DE's are only slightly smaller than the DT's we are using now for the 4-3, so we don't cede much. And 3-4 teams do it that way because it helps disguise the D. If Williams came on the field every time we went to a 4-3 look, it would tip off the O. Even when a 3-4 goes to the 4-3, there is still no place for Williams.

Kyle Williams is a fan favorite, and deservedly so because he's a 5th round draft pick who has outplayed both his draft position and his apparent physical limitations. But the reality is that he is at best slightly above average. As fans, we like to see guys who do well by working hard rather than sheer natural ability, so we tend to overrate guys like Williams.

[Dying_-2-_Live]

Ive been waiting for a chance to see us truly use Spencer Johnson... He is better than most people think.

As for the backers... I think rushing the passer will be a strength, while tackling may be somewhat of a weakness.

[Goobylal]

Williams is a bad fit for this D. When 3-4 teams go to a 4-3 alignment, they generally do so by having one of the OLB's come up and put his hand in the dirt. 3-4 DE's are only slightly smaller than the DT's we are using now for the 4-3, so we don't cede much. And 3-4 teams do it that way because it helps disguise the D. If Williams came on the field every time we went to a 4-3 look, it would tip off the O. Even when a 3-4 goes to the 4-3, there is still no place for Williams.
Wait, an OLB in a 3-point stance isn't a tip-off? I don't buy that argument. And the Bills could have Williams drop into coverage, a la a zone blitz.

Kyle Williams is a fan favorite, and deservedly so because he's a 5th round draft pick who has outplayed both his draft position and his apparent physical limitations. But the reality is that he is at best slightly above average. As fans, we like to see guys who do well by working hard rather than sheer natural ability, so we tend to overrate guys like Williams.
Whoa, hold on a second. Williams was a Pro Bowl alternate this past season. Now while the Pro Bowl has become a joke when it comes to established Pro Bowlers during down years making it on rep, a new and unheralded guy making it, even as an alternate, means something. So I'd disagree that he's "slightly above average."

[Mahdi]

Wait, an OLB in a 3-point stance isn't a tip-off? I don't buy that argument. And the Bills could have Williams drop into coverage, a la a zone blitz.

Whoa, hold on a second. Williams was a Pro Bowl alternate this past season. Now while the Pro Bowl has become a joke when it comes to established Pro Bowlers during down years making it on rep, a new and unheralded guy making it, even as an alternate, means something. So I'd disagree that he's "slightly above average."
He was an alternate because options were few. Rogers, Jenkins, Ferguson, Jamal Williams, Hampton all dealt with injuries or were done for the season this year.

KW made plays this year for sure, more than he ever has. But he is the exact definition of a Buffalo Bill over the last decade.

Flashes of brilliance surrounded by mediocre play.

[ServoBillieves]

Williams could be a decent NT... bulk his fatass up.

[OpIv37]

Wait, an OLB in a 3-point stance isn't a tip-off? I don't buy that argument. And the Bills could have Williams drop into coverage, a la a zone blitz.

An OLB can go from either the up position or put his hands in the dirt. If the Bills CHANGE PERSONNEL, it will tip the O off BEFORE they even take their positions on the field.


Whoa, hold on a second. Williams was a Pro Bowl alternate this past season. Now while the Pro Bowl has become a joke when it comes to established Pro Bowlers during down years making it on rep, a new and unheralded guy making it, even as an alternate, means something. So I'd disagree that he's "slightly above average."

then you must not watch the games. Williams comes up with a great play from time to time, but also tends to get pushed back in the running game. And he's streaky. Don't get me wrong- I'm glad he's on the team and he does contribute- but this team is in store for major changes and he certainly doesn't fall into the "definite keeper" category.

[Goobylal]

An OLB can go from either the up position or put his hands in the dirt. If the Bills CHANGE PERSONNEL, it will tip the O off BEFORE they even take their positions on the field.

then you must not watch the games. Williams comes up with a great play from time to time, but also tends to get pushed back in the running game. And he's streaky. Don't get me wrong- I'm glad he's on the team and he does contribute- but this team is in store for major changes and he certainly doesn't fall into the "definite keeper" category.
My main idea was putting Williams (in a rotation) at DE, with him sliding inside on 4-3 alignments. If tipping-off the opponent is truly that big of a deal, they don't have to move him inside.

[YardRat]

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=187935

[JCBills]

An OLB can go from either the up position or put his hands in the dirt. If the Bills CHANGE PERSONNEL, it will tip the O off BEFORE they even take their positions on the field.


then you must not watch the games. Williams comes up with a great play from time to time, but also tends to get pushed back in the running game. And he's streaky. Don't get me wrong- I'm glad he's on the team and he does contribute- but this team is in store for major changes and he certainly doesn't fall into the "definite keeper" category.

Williams is a very good one gap DT, he just needs to be in the proper scheme. If he were paired with a 2 gap run stuffer with some serious size, they would make each other a Pro Bowl tandem. Williams has played next to an old Stroud and Larry Triplett.....he's not going to eat multiple blocks, but he will be disruptive for you all game.

He should have good trade value to a 4-3 team in need of a one gap penetrator.