Uncapped year is really hurting the Bills

[patmoran2006]

Im in the midst of writing about this, talking to a few people and getting some quotes.. But a few talking points

I think that an uncapped year is really hurting the Bills, perhaps more than any team in the NFL this offseason for the following reasons.

1- They were in far better shape cap-wise than almost any team in the league.

2- They have a surplus of holes to fill, especially with the 3-4 switch.

3- They have literally no UFA's of their own they'd have to invest significant money on to retain, which allows them to be bigger "players" in the open market.

4- The most glairing--- the talent pool in UFA has shrunken drastically with guys who would be UFA being RFA without the new CBA.

[justasportsfan]

we're building via the draft

[djjimkelly]

pat i love most of your writing but this constant: this hurts the bills that hurts the bills is getting old.


10 years of mismanagement coupled with terrible coaching for the most part no real football man as the GM (even donahoe IMO wasn't a football man)

missing badly on half of our rounds 1 through 3 picks

is what has hurt the bills this GM has already stated building through the draft is what we are gonna do.

so nothing about the cap is hurting or making the bills in the immediate future the 2010 year.

[patmoran2006]

pat i love most of your writing but this constant: this hurts the bills that hurts the bills is getting old.


10 years of mismanagement coupled with terrible coaching for the most part no real football man as the GM (even donahoe IMO wasn't a football man)

missing badly on half of our rounds 1 through 3 picks

is what has hurt the bills this GM has already stated building through the draft is what we are gonna do.

so nothing about the cap is hurting or making the bills in the immediate future the 2010 year.

They are going to make SOME moves during FA for sure, probably more than you think. >They have too. There isnt enough draft slots to fit what they still need to do.

And facts are facts. The uncapped year dwindles the talent pool and for a team like the Bills that had plenty of cap room and no major FA's of their own to invest in, it hurts their cause.

[djjimkelly]

also the last time the bills were a force in the nfl there was no salary cap

i can see no cap as a better fit for the bills players take 6 years to become UFA

this actually sets up a system where u can take someone who u project helping 3 years from now and still has 4 solid years before you have to make a real decision on them.

it also sets a system where teams can actually sign players in their prime years 5 and 6

i like this system better for our team specifically.

also u have a right to a player longer . buffalo sadly right now probably isnt on most players top 3 wish lists.

well no cap means to bad your here for 6 years if the bills love you :)

[justasportsfan]

They are going to make SOME moves during FA for sure, probably more than you think. >They have too. There isnt enough draft slots to fit what they still need to do.

And facts are facts. The uncapped year dwindles the talent pool and for a team like the Bills that had plenty of cap room and no major FA's of their own to invest in, it hurts their cause.
it hurt us a few years ago when we had tons of cap but the league raised it's cap and teams that didn't have more had some to wiggle all of a sudden. I'm not worried though.

[RockStar36]

Oh no, they might actually have to draft well this April instead of just sign free agents.

[Ed]

One thing that helps the Bills though, is that with an uncapped year there are also restrictions on the playoff teams during free agency. So even though there are less UFA's now the Bills can still be one of the more competitive teams for their services.

Plus, if the Bills were in good cap shape and were willing to spend big money on Shannahan or Cowher, I don't see why they would be any less financially aggressive then any other team. I think most teams have said that even though it's an uncapped year, it's unlikely that they're going to go crazy spending money or operate any differently then normal.

[ddaryl]

free agency this year isn't going to hold much for anyone IMO

[patmoran2006]

One thing that helps the Bills though, is that with an uncapped year there are also restrictions on the playoff teams during free agency. So even though there are less UFA's now the Bills can still be one of the more competitive teams for their services.

Plus, if the Bills were in good cap shape and were willing to spend big money on Shannahan or Cowher, I don't see why they would be any less financially aggressive then any other team. I think most teams have said that even though it's an uncapped year, it's unlikely that they're going to go crazy spending money or operate any differently then normal.

Your second paragraph leads to what my point was. the talent pool is so incredibly diminished right now.

Through my research thus far, here are some RFA that would be UFA if there were a CBA deal. (And I limited it to positions we'd consider "needs)

Quarterback: Jason Campbell (Washington), Kyle Orton (Denver). Running Back: Jerome Harrison (Cleveland), Darren Sproles (San Diego)
Wide Receiver: Vincent Jackson (San Diego), Miles Austin (Dallas), Brandon Marshall (Denver), Braylon Edwards (NY Jets), Malcom Floyd (San Diego)
Tight End: Owen Daniels (Houston), Anthony Fasano (Miami)
Offensive Tackles: Marcus McNeil (San Diego), Jammal Brown (New Orleans), Tyson Clabo (Atlanta)
Defensive Tackle: Barry Cofield (NY Giants), Tony Brown (Tennessee)
Defensive End: Ray Edwards (Minnesota), Marcus Spears (Dallas)
Linebackers: Elvis Dumervil (Denver), DeMarco Ryans (Houston), Shawne Merriman (San Diego), Thomas Davis (Carolina), Kirk Morrison (Oakland)

Now look at the best of the current UFA lot as it stands in those same positions

Quarterback: Chad Pennington (Miami)
Running Back: Chester Taylor (Minnesota), Willie Parker (Pittsburgh)
Wide Receiver: Chris Chambers (Kansas City), Kevin Walter (Houston)
Tight End: Ben Watson (New England)
Offensive Tackles: Chad Clifton (Green Bay)
Defensive Tackle: Jimmy Kennedy (Minnesota)--- Aubrayo Franklin has been franchised and we anticipate Vince Wilfork and Casey Hampton will soon follow.
Linebackers: Joey Porter (Miami), Aaron Kampman (Green Bay)

The difference is very clear. And with the Bills in the cap shape they are in and again--without HAVING to invest heavily in their own FA's, this hurts.

They werent going to go nuts in FA regardless. But I'd think 2-3 good free agents would be the quote. They could've went after LT and say WR in FA.

And for the record, I do agree with the team being built throught the draft as a whole. But there is no way the Bills fix their holes through the draft alone.

It's a combination of both. There are still some good UFA's out there, but very few.

[djjimkelly]

They are going to make SOME moves during FA for sure, probably more than you think. >They have too. There isnt enough draft slots to fit what they still need to do.

And facts are facts. The uncapped year dwindles the talent pool and for a team like the Bills that had plenty of cap room and no major FA's of their own to invest in, it hurts their cause.


sure it hurts their immediate cause but i don't think their immediate cause is the 2010 season and rightfully so.

however most of our needs we have while are very severly lacking this is comical to actually be forced to write

QB LT RT DE LB we are FAR away

i think we are better off building a real team lets not kid ourselves lots of teams still do it this way and they for the most part are the winning teams we just have not had real NFL material coaching or front office and we are in this mess becuase of it.

im sure a couple years from now we will be well on way. i can almost assure you the bills are non factor in 2010 and all im looking for is real progression from this organization regardless of overall record in 2010

[djjimkelly]

Your second paragraph leads to what my point was. the talent pool is so incredibly diminished right now.

Through my research thus far, here are some RFA that would be UFA if there were a CBA deal. (And I limited it to positions we'd consider "needs)

Quarterback: Jason Campbell (Washington), Kyle Orton (Denver). Running Back: Jerome Harrison (Cleveland), Darren Sproles (San Diego)
Wide Receiver: Vincent Jackson (San Diego), Miles Austin (Dallas), Brandon Marshall (Denver), Braylon Edwards (NY Jets), Malcom Floyd (San Diego)
Tight End: Owen Daniels (Houston), Anthony Fasano (Miami)
Offensive Tackles: Marcus McNeil (San Diego), Jammal Brown (New Orleans), Tyson Clabo (Atlanta)
Defensive Tackle: Barry Cofield (NY Giants), Tony Brown (Tennessee)
Defensive End: Ray Edwards (Minnesota), Marcus Spears (Dallas)
Linebackers: Elvis Dumervil (Denver), DeMarco Ryans (Houston), Shawne Merriman (San Diego), Thomas Davis (Carolina), Kirk Morrison (Oakland)

Now look at the best of the current UFA lot as it stands in those same positions

Quarterback: Chad Pennington (Miami)
Running Back: Chester Taylor (Minnesota), Willie Parker (Pittsburgh)
Wide Receiver: Chris Chambers (Kansas City), Kevin Walter (Houston)
Tight End: Ben Watson (New England)
Offensive Tackles: Chad Clifton (Green Bay)
Defensive Tackle: Jimmy Kennedy (Minnesota)--- Aubrayo Franklin has been franchised and we anticipate Vince Wilfork and Casey Hampton will soon follow.
Linebackers: Joey Porter (Miami), Aaron Kampman (Green Bay)

The difference is very clear. And with the Bills in the cap shape they are in and again--without HAVING to invest heavily in their own FA's, this hurts.

They werent going to go nuts in FA regardless. But I'd think 2-3 good free agents would be the quote. They could've went after LT and say WR in FA.

And for the record, I do agree with the team being built throught the draft as a whole. But there is no way the Bills fix their holes through the draft alone.

It's a combination of both. There are still some good UFA's out there, but very few.


of that entire FA list the one i would target the most is ben watson you kill 2 birds with one stone take him away from the pats he has been a bills killer and you solve a ill say 15 year drought at TE riemersma was great but he got hurt

[patmoran2006]

of that entire FA list the one i would target the most is ben watson you kill 2 birds with one stone take him away from the pats he has been a bills killer and you solve a ill say 15 year drought at TE riemersma was great but he got hurt

Im a fan of Shawn Nelson.. I think he's going to be good.. I wouldn't invest much in a tight end, though I suppose that could be easily disgreed with, which is why I listed some tight ends.

[Pinkerton Security]

Your second paragraph leads to what my point was. the talent pool is so incredibly diminished right now.

Through my research thus far, here are some RFA that would be UFA if there were a CBA deal. (And I limited it to positions we'd consider "needs)

Quarterback: Jason Campbell (Washington), Kyle Orton (Denver). Running Back: Jerome Harrison (Cleveland), Darren Sproles (San Diego)
Wide Receiver: Vincent Jackson (San Diego), Miles Austin (Dallas), Brandon Marshall (Denver), Braylon Edwards (NY Jets), Malcom Floyd (San Diego)
Tight End: Owen Daniels (Houston), Anthony Fasano (Miami)
Offensive Tackles: Marcus McNeil (San Diego), Jammal Brown (New Orleans), Tyson Clabo (Atlanta)
Defensive Tackle: Barry Cofield (NY Giants), Tony Brown (Tennessee)
Defensive End: Ray Edwards (Minnesota), Marcus Spears (Dallas)
Linebackers: Elvis Dumervil (Denver), DeMarco Ryans (Houston), Shawne Merriman (San Diego), Thomas Davis (Carolina), Kirk Morrison (Oakland)

Now look at the best of the current UFA lot as it stands in those same positions

Quarterback: Chad Pennington (Miami)
Running Back: Chester Taylor (Minnesota), Willie Parker (Pittsburgh)
Wide Receiver: Chris Chambers (Kansas City), Kevin Walter (Houston)
Tight End: Ben Watson (New England)
Offensive Tackles: Chad Clifton (Green Bay)
Defensive Tackle: Jimmy Kennedy (Minnesota)--- Aubrayo Franklin has been franchised and we anticipate Vince Wilfork and Casey Hampton will soon follow.
Linebackers: Joey Porter (Miami), Aaron Kampman (Green Bay)

The difference is very clear. And with the Bills in the cap shape they are in and again--without HAVING to invest heavily in their own FA's, this hurts.

They werent going to go nuts in FA regardless. But I'd think 2-3 good free agents would be the quote. They could've went after LT and say WR in FA.

And for the record, I do agree with the team being built throught the draft as a whole. But there is no way the Bills fix their holes through the draft alone.

It's a combination of both. There are still some good UFA's out there, but very few.
This is a good list and it is very telling of how the uncapped year is affecting the FA pool, but this lack of UFAs affects every team, not just the Bills...yes, we need LBs and QBs but I'd say more teams have needs at these positions than those that dont.

[patmoran2006]

Well, I will say this too.. An uncapped this year makes it easier to trade and I'm sure the Bills got guys they're looking to trade.

Under the cap system, when a team traded a player it suffered a cap hit based on the years left on the player's contract. It acted as a disincentive for trading him. Now there is no cap hit. Also, with fewer unrestricted free agents available, teams may be more aggressive in trading for players to fill needs.
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/02/uncapping_some_knowledge_about.html

[Don't Panic]

Im in the midst of writing about this, talking to a few people and getting some quotes.. But a few talking points

I think that an uncapped year is really hurting the Bills, perhaps more than any team in the NFL this offseason for the following reasons.

1- They were in far better shape cap-wise than almost any team in the league.

2- They have a surplus of holes to fill, especially with the 3-4 switch.

3- They have literally no UFA's of their own they'd have to invest significant money on to retain, which allows them to be bigger "players" in the open market.

4- The most glairing--- the talent pool in UFA has shrunken drastically with guys who would be UFA being RFA without the new CBA.

Not sure I agree completely. As Ed mentioned, there are the limits on the top 8, plus the trading possibility, which I think Nix will be good at. As for your points:

1. We have been in great shape for many years cap-wise, but never used it all. To me, this negates this point completely.

2. We have holes to fill, but we aren't going to do it all at once. I wouldn't be surprised to see two-three regular contributors on next year's D come from this year's draft, which means we could probably get by with only one FA signing on that side of the ball. And if we draft a LT at #9, we could theoretically only need one signing on O as well.

3. There's been talk of spending, but Nix isn't going to spend just to spend. It would have been a great year to be a big player in FA, but not having a good market is hardly the first thing that would keep us from being active.

4. See above... as long as we can plug 2 (maybe 3) holes via FA, we will be fine.

[patmoran2006]

Not sure I agree completely. As Ed mentioned, there are the limits on the top 8, plus the trading possibility, which I think Nix will be good at. As for your points:

1. We have been in great shape for many years cap-wise, but never used it all. To me, this negates this point completely.

2. We have holes to fill, but we aren't going to do it all at once. I wouldn't be surprised to see two-three regular contributors on next year's D come from this year's draft, which means we could probably get by with only one FA signing on that side of the ball. And if we draft a LT at #9, we could theoretically only need one signing on O as well.

3. There's been talk of spending, but Nix isn't going to spend just to spend. It would have been a great year to be a big player in FA, but not having a good market is hardly the first thing that would keep us from being active.

4. See above... as long as we can plug 2 (maybe 3) holes via FA, we will be fine.

Good counterpoints.

[TK8383]

Keep in mind that a deal will most likely be in place not this coming year but the year after so if the Bills choose they can overspend to get guys because they are already so far under when the cap comes back

[Don't Panic]

Keep in mind that a deal will most likely be in place not this coming year but the year after so if the Bills choose they can overspend to get guys because they are already so far under when the cap comes back

Seeing overspend and Bills in the same sentence has me scratching my head a bit. Welcome aboard TK...

[Pinkerton Security]

Seeing overspend and Bills in the same sentence has me scratching my head a bit. Welcome aboard TK...

bc it doesnt happen...

[Ed]

bc it doesnt happen...
You don't consider $47 million or whatever it was for Derrick Dockery overspending?

[TK8383]

I meant in the sense for the few guys we will get we always have to overspen to get them

[patmoran2006]

You don't consider $47 million or whatever it was for Derrick Dockery overspending?

49.. and 25 more for Langston Walker

[Pinkerton Security]

You don't consider $47 million or whatever it was for Derrick Dockery overspending?

ok, yes we overspent on individual players but what was our cap space that year, even with those 2? and the year after that? and the year after that? Overspending is what Dan Snyder does, because he doesnt bring in 2 players who are overpaid, he brings in 6 or 7. Its hard to say someone is overspending when they are 30 mill under the cap.

[Don't Panic]

I meant in the sense for the few guys we will get we always have to overspen to get them

I think we'll see a little more discipline in this case... if we do overspend, it'll be for guys who are more deserving than Dockery and Walker.

[ParanoidAndroid]

The cap will return and a team that does not go spendthrift will be better off when it does.
I don't think this hurts the Bills more than any other team out there.
The tendered RFA's will become UFA's next year under a new CBA if they are not re-signed to a multi-year contract. So, our cap space will, once again, be available. It might open up the flood gates for a massive FA market next year.

[psubills62]

I think NE39 made a good point before about the uncapped year: teams aren't just going to go hog-wild on the spending because they'll be screwed if a salary cap comes back.

I think the Bills will be players in FA for the second-tier guys (which would be 3rd or 4th tier in normal FA), mainly to fill the depth chart.

[Buddo]

I'm still of the opinion that there will be a lot more happening in terms of player trades. Quite possibly a number of 3 way trades, to match up teams needs.
I also think that there will be a lot of shuffling around of late round picks, that will be going to make up the value differences in some of those trades.
Quite possibly, the biggest 'splashes' made when FA starts, will be the cuts. After they have happened, then start looking to see who is, or isn't available.
Strategy wise, the Bills best bet is probably to look to fortify their LB corps through FA, and concentrate on getting an NT (and probably DE) in the draft, once they have fixed the O-Line.

[YardRat]

There are pro's and con's for every team in an uncapped year...how well Nix takes advantage of the new opportunities and overcomes the new restrictions will go a long way in telling us what we can expect for the team in the future.

[better days]

The cap will return and a team that does not go spendthrift will be better off when it does.
I don't think this hurts the Bills more than any other team out there.
The tendered RFA's will become UFA's next year under a new CBA if they are not re-signed to a multi-year contract. So, our cap space will, once again, be available. It might open up the flood gates for a massive FA market next year.

I would not bet on the cap returning. Along with the cap was a minimum that owners had to spend. I don't think the owners want that anymore. With no cap teams can keep players they drafted 6 years instead of 4. I think that will be better for the Bills in the long run.

[bigfish2112]

I think we are going to see alot of activity this year in FA alot of high priced players will get cut this year. This year is a way out of contracts for owners expect alot of players to be cut all around the league this year.

[Mahdi]

They are going to make SOME moves during FA for sure, probably more than you think. >They have too. There isnt enough draft slots to fit what they still need to do.

And facts are facts. The uncapped year dwindles the talent pool and for a team like the Bills that had plenty of cap room and no major FA's of their own to invest in, it hurts their cause.
This is absolutely correct. Building through the draft does not mean abandoning FA.

This is a team that will be shedding a lot of players that don't fit and letting others walk.

Ellison, Harris, Palmer, Schobel, Kelsay, McCargo, Denney, Youboty, Scott, Reed, Fine, Jenkins, Wendling, Draft, Edwards, Fitzpatrick, Brohm, Chambers, Incognito, Johnathan Scott.

Most of those player are or will be cut, out of the QBs I think 1 or 2 are gone and then you need to add players who fit your scheme.

Sorry not all that will be done in the draft and seeing as how that is the case, less quality FAs means we can't fill our holes with quality players.

[Syderick]

Capped or uncapped the Bills don't usually spend alot of money either way.

[Ebenezer]

Capped or uncapped the Bills don't usually spend alot of money either way.
untrue.

[Ebenezer]

Can we address the title of the thread...nothing has happened yet...the lack of a cap is not hurting the Bills at all (at this time).

[Night Train]

I guess what I need to see possibly happening is the start of FA when many players could get cut, from what I'm reading nationally.

Then if the Bills can make some trades for players or picks. The process of adding players has yet to commence, so I'll wait to see what actually happens.

This is a very unpredictable and unique off-season, with the uncapped year and the switching of schemes on D. I'm going to let it play out over the next 2-3 months before attempting to form an opinion.

[Ebenezer]

I guess what I need to see possibly happening is the start of FA when many players could get cut, from what I'm reading nationally.

Then if the Bills can make some trades for players or picks. The process of adding players has yet to commence, so I'll wait to see what actually happens.

This is a very unpredictable and unique off-season, with the uncapped year and the switching of schemes on D. I'm going to let it play out over the next 2-3 months before attempting to form an opinion.
and in truth, with no cap, they don't have to cut anybody...it's not like they have to free up any money.

[Night Train]

and in truth, with no cap, they don't have to cut anybody...it's not like they have to free up any money.

I thought of that but for the long term viability of the small markets, I still see them being prudent with the bottom line.

[djjimkelly]

and in truth, with no cap, they don't have to cut anybody...it's not like they have to free up any money.

but couldnt it be a good way to clear out guys and salaries we dont in preparation for a new cap if there is gonna be one

[Ebenezer]

but couldnt it be a good way to clear out guys and salaries we dont in preparation for a new cap if there is gonna be one
if there isn't a new CBA by the time the FA period opens up they will have to start grandfathering some things because teams are going to sign and sign big.

[Ebenezer]

I thought of that but for the long term viability of the small markets, I still see them being prudent with the bottom line.
oh, I don't deny that...but I am just saying that they don't have to go cheap.