Dan LeFevour will not throw at the combine

[X-Era]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/21/dan-lefevour-wont-throw-at-combine/

Not sure I like this move by him. He should show everyone what hes got head to head with the other prospects.

[Dicknoze69]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/21/dan-lefevour-wont-throw-at-combine/

Not sure I like this move by him. He should show everyone what hes got head to head with the other prospects.

I think it's a bad move as well. It's not like he's a sure fire prospect like most guys who don't throw at the combine and he's certainly not hurt like Clausen/Bradford. I think the combine would be the place to stack his claim to being the 3rd QB drafted in this class.

[YardRat]

Anybody have any background on how 'combine guys' careers have panned out vs. 'pro day guys' ?? It certainly hasn't been unusual for projected higher picks to back off of the combine and work out in a setting that they have more control over.

[ZAZusmc03]

This is disapointing for me. I really like the idea of the Bills snagging him in the 2nd or 3rd round. But personally, I feel like the pro day is the time to make the biggest impact on NFL scouts. Its the last time they get to see what you have, leaving them with the freshest outlook on the player.

EDIT: But if this results in him sliding down into the 3rd-4th and we can snag him up in one of those rounds, I wouldn't be upset at all.

[DraftBoy]

Not surprising, the guy's stock is rising without hi working out. Only thing he can do really is hurt himself at the combine.

Now all that being said, I still don't like it.

[SaviorEdwards]

Absolutely weak!!!! He has a captive audience to show his stuff and he doesn't take the oppurtunity? Cue the plummeting of his draft stock. I mean seriously how many people are going to Central Michigan for his pro day hahahahaha. Its not like a Texas or Florida where you get to see great athletes at every position.

[JCBills]

Absolutely weak!!!! He has a captive audience to show his stuff and he doesn't take the oppurtunity? Cue the plummeting of his draft stock. I mean seriously how many people are going to Central Michigan for his pro day hahahahaha. Its not like a Texas or Florida where you get to see great athletes at every position.

He's shown his stuff for 4 years.

Throwing at the combine shows nothing, no pads, no pocket pressure, you're much better off just looking at game tape.

15,853 total yds and 149 Total TDs later.....

[SaviorEdwards]

He's shown his stuff for 4 years.

Throwing at the combine shows nothing, no pads, no pocket pressure, you're much better off just looking at game tape.

15,853 total yds and 149 Total TDs later.....

What conference did he play in again? Timmy Chang/Colt Brennan threw for a lot of yardage as well and their NFL careers haven't exactly taken off.

[Beebe's Kid]

What conference did he play in again? Timmy Chang/Colt Brennan threw for a lot of yardage as well and their NFL careers haven't exactly taken off.

Colt Brennan also had an amazing combine. He was 100% accurate. He very well may turn into an NFL QB. He was on IR this past year, after getting hurt in pre-season.

I would love to have CB on the Bills. I don't think we've heard the last of him.

[SaviorEdwards]

Colt Brennan also had an amazing combine. He was 100% accurate. He very well may turn into an NFL QB. He was on IR this past year, after getting hurt in pre-season.

I would love to have CB on the Bills. I don't think we've heard the last of him.

Exactly why smaller conference guys should want to go to the combine. I disagree with him translating to the NFL, but it can't be argued that NFL execs will view Lefevours passing on the combine as a huge red flag. If you have an injury thats one thing, but he obviously feels he can't measure up.

[JCBills]

What conference did he play in again? Timmy Chang/Colt Brennan threw for a lot of yardage as well and their NFL careers haven't exactly taken off.
7 MAC players were on this year's Super Bowl teams.

Chang and Brennan don't have NFL builds and weren't the dual threat LeFevour is.

Yeah yeah I know I know, the MAC isn't anything special, but throwing at the combine shows nothing. It's throwing to WRs the QBs have no timing established with.

Should he throw at the combine? Probably, but he's going to focus on throwing at his pro day, which is smart.

[JCBills]

Exactly why smaller conference guys should want to go to the combine. I disagree with him translating to the NFL, but it can't be argued that NFL execs will view Lefevours passing on the combine as a huge red flag. If you have an injury thats one thing, but he obviously feels he can't measure up.

He looked pretty good compared to the QBs at the Senior Bowl.

Maybe he's doing the smart thing and working on his mechanics until his pro day. Basically what Tebow should have done. He's doing everything but throwing at the combine. I don't think this is even close to a case of low confidence.

[PECKERWOOD]

LeFevour has more moxie than Brennan, along with a better frame and better athleticism. Brennan throws the ugliest looking ball I've ever seen, LeFevour on the other hand, not so much. Plus, you got to like the way LeFevour played in the East/West shrine game, he was on point.

[tampabay25690]

Not surprising, the guy's stock is rising without hi working out. Only thing he can do really is hurt himself at the combine.

Now all that being said, I still don't like it.

Agreed....
I hate that he wont throw though..

[Ingtar33]

What conference did he play in again? Timmy Chang/Colt Brennan threw for a lot of yardage as well and their NFL careers haven't exactly taken off.

The MAC is a pro QB manufacturing mill. Not sure why a mid major conference like the MAC would constantly kick out solid pro QBs but it does.

LeFavour and Hiller are the best two MAC QBs to come around since Roethlisburger... and while i don't think either are in his class... i think they both could be pretty solid in the league. At least with long careers as backups... and if they can adjust (to the pro game) as solid to good starters.

Before the Senior Bowl i would have said Hiller was the better prospect. But LeFavour showed me something i didn't think he had in the senior bowl. That he could play under center... and throw accurately from the pocket, while in a pro-read offense. Those were my two biggest question marks about LeFavour, and he answered them for me, in the senior bowl.

The only thing he can do in the combine is hurt himself, because he'll be throwing next to other top prospects, and if he has a bad day and throws worse then some no-name, he'll sink his prospects.

At a pro-day he'll be throwing, without someone else on the field to compare him to. So you'll be judging him based on his actual performance and not on how he looks in comparison to someone else.

[Ground Chuck]

Physically I don't think it matters if he throws or not. But it does make him look like a tool.

[JCBills]

Tebow chooses not to throw at the combine because he publicly announces he's refining his throwing motion and people have praised the move.

LeFevour does the same but doesn't state why and people knock him.

[SaviorEdwards]

Tebow chooses not to throw at the combine because he publicly announces he's refining his throwing motion and people have praised the move.

LeFevour does the same but doesn't state why and people knock him.

Not me, I think its a dumb move.

[Night Train]

So we have LeFevour, Clausen & Bradford not performing at the combine in an already overrarted QB class. :rolleyes:

I'm just going to put a red marker right through QB until the later rounds on draft day and concentrate on LT & Front 7 on D.

[X-Era]

Tebow chooses not to throw at the combine because he publicly announces he's refining his throwing motion and people have praised the move.

LeFevour does the same but doesn't state why and people knock him.

For the record, I think they all should throw, what are they hiding?

[DraftBoy]

So we have LeFevour, Clausen & Bradford not performing at the combine in an already overrarted QB class. :rolleyes:

I'm just going to put a red marker right through QB until the later rounds on draft day and concentrate on LT & Front 7 on D.

Add Tebow and likely Colt McCoy as well.

Watch for John Skelton to wow at the combine and see his stock skyrocket.

[JCBills]

For the record, I think they all should throw, what are they hiding?

I don't know, but it basically throws out the argument that LeFevour isn't throwing because he doesn't want to throw next to other top prospects. Pure speculation junk.

Throwing at the combine shows nothing. Passing to WRs you have no timing established with doesn't really say anything, and can hurt more than help, usually a big reason they opt not to throw until their pro day.

Throwing without pads isn't going to tell you anything you can't see on game tape.

[methos4ever]

Add Tebow and likely Colt McCoy as well.

Watch for John Skelton to wow at the combine and see his stock skyrocket.
I thought McCoy was throwing DB? as of yesterday the Extreme Sports and Poker Network was saying so....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=4935397

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/02/colt-mccoy-throwing-could-he-be-next-dre.html

[DraftBoy]

I thought McCoy was throwing DB? as of yesterday the Extreme Sports and Poker Network was saying so....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=4935397

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2010/02/colt-mccoy-throwing-could-he-be-next-dre.html

Still time to decide not to. I was just speculating not reporting. If his arm is healthy he should throw but its a risk to take given the other top QB's aren't throwing.

[X-Era]

I don't know, but it basically throws out the argument that LeFevour isn't throwing because he doesn't want to throw next to other top prospects. Pure speculation junk.

Throwing at the combine shows nothing. Passing to WRs you have no timing established with doesn't really say anything, and can hurt more than help, usually a big reason they opt not to throw until their pro day.

Throwing without pads isn't going to tell you anything you can't see on game tape.

Not sure I agree.

Throwing a deep out route will show scouts whether you can throw it or not. Id say that having completions isnt as important, because like you said, the timing wont likely be there. But, throwing with velocity, and accuracy, and making all the NFL throws is an important thing to show.

I think some of these guys are worried about having lots of drops and having that reflect poorly on them. But, I think its more about showing you can make the throw than if youcan complete it with "foreign" receivers.

[JCBills]

Not sure I agree.

Throwing a deep out route will show scouts whether you can throw it or not. Id say that having completions isnt as important, because like you said, the timing wont likely be there. But, throwing with velocity, and accuracy, and making all the NFL throws is an important thing to show.

I think some of these guys are worried about having lots of drops and having that reflect poorly on them. But, I think its more about showing you can make the throw than if youcan complete it with "foreign" receivers.

This should be taken from film study, not throwing out of pads without pressure in your face.

When it comes down to it the most important aspect of the combine is the medical and interview processes.

[X-Era]

This should be taken from film study, not throwing out of pads without pressure in your face.

When it comes down to it the most important aspect of the combine is the medical and interview processes.

So, I just think there is value in showing what you've got, against everyone else, and show how well you can get it done. Final answer? No. Data? Yes.

[DraftBoy]

This should be taken from film study, not throwing out of pads without pressure in your face.

When it comes down to it the most important aspect of the combine is the medical and interview processes.

Dont forget the measurements as well...height, weight, hand size, arm length, etc.

[JCBills]

Dont forget the measurements as well...height, weight, hand size, arm length, etc.

Yeah I kinda lumped that in with the medical.

[DraftBoy]

Yeah I kinda lumped that in with the medical.

Wasn't sure if you were or not, because the medical tests are a little different of a process, but yea I agree the workouts for some positions are pointless.

The 40 time overall is very pointless.

[JCBills]

Wasn't sure if you were or not, because the medical tests are a little different of a process, but yea I agree the workouts for some positions are pointless.

The 40 time overall is very pointless.

Completely, especially for DBs. They should have them do backpedal 40's instead haha.

[madness]

Re: Dan LeFevour will not throw at the combine

....unless it's parked in the barn... on a calm, sunny day... and he's only 10-15 yards away.

[X-Era]

Holmgren echoed some of our comments:

"I don't get it (http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/02/cleveland_browns_president_mik_1.html)," Browns President Mike Holmgren told the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "Someone has sold a bill of goods to some of these kids."

"One thing I always told the quarterback was to throw at the combine," Holmgren said. "Participate. I always thought, at that position, it was a mistake [not to throw]. We know you're going with receivers you don't know. Very rarely do you get [downgraded] on a combine thing. But it can help you."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/24/holmgren-thinks-quarterbacks-should-throw-at-the-combine/

[tat2dmike77]

The MAC is a pro QB manufacturing mill. Not sure why a mid major conference like the MAC would constantly kick out solid pro QBs but it does.

Because all these spread offenses are killing the NFL QB. The MAC offenses play more of the style the QBs will handle in thier NFL future.

[DraftBoy]

Holmgren echoed some of our comments:

"I don't get it (http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/02/cleveland_browns_president_mik_1.html)," Browns President Mike Holmgren told the Cleveland Plain Dealer. "Someone has sold a bill of goods to some of these kids."

"One thing I always told the quarterback was to throw at the combine," Holmgren said. "Participate. I always thought, at that position, it was a mistake [not to throw]. We know you're going with receivers you don't know. Very rarely do you get [downgraded] on a combine thing. But it can help you."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/02/24/holmgren-thinks-quarterbacks-should-throw-at-the-combine/

Im not a big Holmgren fan and this last part I disagree with, the combine can hurt you. Well I should say I believe it can hurt you even in the position workouts. Ing would have to talk more to that as he's the only one whose been through this process, but I do believe it can.

[X-Era]

Im not a big Holmgren fan and this last part I disagree with, the combine can hurt you. Well I should say I believe it can hurt you even in the position workouts. Ing would have to talk more to that as he's the only one whose been through this process, but I do believe it can.

I think if its measureables, that it could hurt you. A bad 40, poor bench, etc... But for a QB where that stuff wont matter that much, and when a guy like Holmgren is saying drops to foreign receivers wont hurt him... I just feel like he can show accuracy and velocity on his throws even if the ball gets dropped. The pro-day will show the scouts whether he can throw all the passes. You cant hide from it. Maybe having it be on your turf and terms helps that.

[Ingtar33]

Im not a big Holmgren fan and this last part I disagree with, the combine can hurt you. Well I should say I believe it can hurt you even in the position workouts. Ing would have to talk more to that as he's the only one whose been through this process, but I do believe it can.

this is the trick.

the scouts pretty much know what the board looks like by the end of the football season. They know who is the best player and who is the worst, and who they want to draft.

Most scouts and the better personnel people generally ignore the combine. It was never huge on my list of things, i rarely looked at the numbers that came out of the combine.

The problem is, the head coaches, most GMs, and most owners DONT watch the college football seasons (except for the allstar games). They rarely bother with watching tape as well. What they do watch is the combine. The result is you get a mini-war inside the front office after the combine, with the scouts advocating their football players, and the front office guys advocating their flavor of the month workout warriors.

The good front offices (in my experience) basically ignore the combine... the bad ones use it as the start point of their evaluation.

When i talk about not wanting to rate players till after the combine, i'm talking about wanting to wait to see who some team will draft too high, not to see who will be a better pro.

If you stop evaluating players after the college football season (and the all star games) you'll probably draft a lot better then if you bother to pay attention to the combine and workouts.


-Yes the combine CAN hurt you. It also CAN help you. The problem is, it shouldn't really matter at all, only with the well run front offices does the combine not matter much. so in Holmgren's front office.. maybe that's true... maybe the combine doesn't hurt. I've found that it's rare that's true.

[X-Era]

this is the trick.

the scouts pretty much know what the board looks like by the end of the football season. They know who is the best player and who is the worst, and who they want to draft.

Most scouts and the better personnel people generally ignore the combine. It was never huge on my list of things, i rarely looked at the numbers that came out of the combine.

The problem is, the head coaches, most GMs, and most owners DONT watch the college football seasons (except for the allstar games). They rarely bother with watching tape as well. What they do watch is the combine. The result is you get a mini-war inside the front office after the combine, with the scouts advocating their football players, and the front office guys advocating their flavor of the month workout warriors.

The good front offices (in my experience) basically ignore the combine... the bad ones use it as the start point of their evaluation.

When i talk about not wanting to rate players till after the combine, i'm talking about wanting to wait to see who some team will draft too high, not to see who will be a better pro.

If you stop evaluating players after the college football season (and the all star games) you'll probably draft a lot better then if you bother to pay attention to the combine and workouts.


-Yes the combine CAN hurt you. It also CAN help you. The problem is, it shouldn't really matter at all, only with the well run front offices does the combine not matter much. so in Holmgren's front office.. maybe that's true... maybe the combine doesn't hurt. I've found that it's rare that's true.

:clap:

A Scouting Dep. worth its weight ought to know what the deal is on a guy long before that.

Do you think they ever get surprised? I mean guys get listed at 6' 4" and end up being measured at 6' 2". They cant physically measure any of these guys before they get the measurements at the combine can they?

And so when guys like Mayock say they talked to scouts and the says " the scouts want to see ____ from this guy" Is that not a truthful statement?

[Ingtar33]

:clap:

A Scouting Dep. worth its weight ought to know what the deal is on a guy long before that.

Do you think they ever get surprised? I mean guys get listed at 6' 4" and end up being measured at 6' 2". They cant physically measure any of these guys before they get the measurements at the combine can they?

And so when guys like Mayock say they talked to scouts and the says " the scouts want to see ____ from this guy" Is that not a truthful statement?


Not really. Normally you can tell roughly how tall someone is just by watching tape. When i see Clausen listed at 6'3" i am skeptical. He doesn't look that tall on tape. I'd be surprised if he's a quarter inch taller then 6'2" he's probably 6'1". And he plays even shorter then that.

Generally the rule of thumb is subtract 1 or 2 inches from the team's listing for the player's height. Normally height doesn't matter much. They aren't all lies.. but they usually are generously rounded up. I know i was listed by my college team as 6'2 and by my HS team as 6'1"... i was 5'11 7/8 in HS... and 6'0"1/8 by the time i graduated college. I was never 6'1" or 6'2"... my experience isn't that unique either.

As to Mayock, I think i was only interested in height and weight when it came to the combine. Sometimes... for small school guys who played agaisnt bad competition, I'd like to see their numbers just to make sure they have the basic physical tools to compete in the nfl.

but even then it was more a matter of clearing up some gray areas. Mostly i couldn't care much about the combine.

[X-Era]

Not really. Normally you can tell roughly how tall someone is just by watching tape. When i see Clausen listed at 6'3" i am skeptical. He doesn't look that tall on tape. I'd be surprised if he's a quarter inch taller then 6'2" he's probably 6'1". And he plays even shorter then that.

Generally the rule of thumb is subtract 1 or 2 inches from the team's listing for the player's height. Normally height doesn't matter much. They aren't all lies.. but they usually are generously rounded up. I know i was listed by my college team as 6'2 and by my HS team as 6'1"... i was 5'11 7/8 in HS... and 6'0"1/8 by the time i graduated college. I was never 6'1" or 6'2"... my experience isn't that unique either.

As to Mayock, I think i was only interested in height and weight when it came to the combine. Sometimes... for small school guys who played agaisnt bad competition, I'd like to see their numbers just to make sure they have the basic physical tools to compete in the nfl.

but even then it was more a matter of clearing up some gray areas. Mostly i couldn't care much about the combine.

Ing, you nailed it!

Buddy's new interview on BB.com echoed exactly what you said. He made the statement that they had better already know whether these guys can play or not before the combine. Not sure if that means we have sound evaluators or not, but it would seem so.

Its about 3 minutes into his interview.

[Ground Chuck]

I would want to see them throw. Not for strength or accuracy, but to see how competitive they are. What is their reaction when someone drops a ball? How well do they adjust to their surroundings? How competitive are they?