Will this team even MAKE the playoffs?

[OpIv37]

I've been talking a lot about playoff positioning and the implications of certain wins/losses/ free points due to OT, etc.

But maybe I'm taking the wrong approach. Looking at the conference standings, we are currently in 5th with 75 points. We have a mere 10 point lead over Boston, who is currently in 8th with 65 points. Right behind them are NYR, also with 65, Atlanta with 64 and TB with 63.

Looking up, we are only 3 points behind Pittsburgh for 4th and only 1 behind Ottawa for the division lead, despite playing 2 fewer games.

I'd have to say it's unlikely that 3 or more teams will catch the Sabres, but with the way this team has hit the skids, it's not all that far-fetched either. If we do make the playoffs, we're likely to get one of the dreaded first-round matchups: Pittsburgh, Ottawa or Washington. The game against Philly is crucial for avoiding that 6th spot and a potential first round matchup with Ottawa.

This team really needs to step it up, now.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Op if they don't get their heads out of their asses they might just miss the playoffs entirely. I was there last night 10 rows up. They looked like ****!!!!

They are constantly giving up odd man rushes and it seems like almost 1, 2 and 0 breaks a game.

[DMBcrew36]

To me, their success going forward is all dependent on whether the forwards will backcheck and play 5-man defense as they did early in the season. I look at the game in the first month of the season where the Sabres 'out Detroited' Detroit.

The team needs to re-dedicate themselves to the system Ruff tried to implement in October. That said, I'm not hitting the panic button just yet. They're still 1 pt from being the first seed in the Northeast.

[OpIv37]

To me, their success going forward is all dependent on whether the forwards will backcheck and play 5-man defense as they did early in the season. I look at the game in the first month of the season where the Sabres 'out Detroited' Detroit.

The team needs to re-dedicate themselves to the system Ruff tried to implement in October. That said, I'm not hitting the panic button just yet.

the problem with the 5 man D is that we're not scoring as it is. If the fwd's come back to help on D, we'll get even fewer scoring chances.

[OpIv37]

Op if they don't get their heads out of their asses they might just miss the playoffs entirely. I was there last night 10 rows up. They looked like ****!!!!

They are constantly giving up odd man rushes and it seems like almost 1, 2 and 0 breaks a game.

wow.... Thurm usually slams this type of post..... the fact that he's willing to acknowledge the possibility of missing the playoffs is very disconcerting.

[DMBcrew36]

the problem with the 5 man D is that we're not scoring as it is. If the fwd's come back to help on D, we'll get even fewer scoring chances.

Not necessarily. Actually, not at all. Backchecking and playing something like a 1-2-2 or trap system does not equate to no offense. You play smart and wait for your offense to develop off of the mistakes/turnovers of the opponent. We're talking about playing a similar game to that of Detroit or New Jersey.

You're making it sound like our wingers are out cherry-picking by the red-line for our only chances.

[DMBcrew36]

And beyond playing better team defense, it's about winning the small battles along the walls. String a few small battles together and you get a scoring chance. Flip it the other way and the other team is in our end threatening to score. Guys need to win more of the 1-on-1 battles along the walls.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Not necessarily. Actually, not at all. Backchecking and playing something like a 1-2-2 or trap system does not equate to no offense. You play smart and wait for your offense to develop off of the mistakes/turnovers of the opponent. We're talking about playing a similar game to that of Detroit or New Jersey.

You're making it sound like our wingers are out cherry-picking by the red-line for our only chances.
Agree with this 100%

By the way it is amazing how bad of a cherry Picker Ovechkin is. He rarely comes back to his side of center ice.

[OpIv37]

Agree with this 100%

By the way it is amazing how bad of a cherry Picker Ovechkin is. He rarely comes back to his side of center ice.

if there was one good thing about this game, it's that we completely shut down Ovechkin. The guy had one good shift, maybe two.

Two years ago, that would have resulted in a blowout in the Sabres' favor. Unfortunately, the Caps have vastly improved the team around him.

[DMBcrew36]

Agree with this 100%

By the way it is amazing how bad of a cherry Picker Ovechkin is. He rarely comes back to his side of center ice.

I think what Ruff was trying to get out of his forwards back in October (and hopefully now, still) was play like that of Pavel Datsyuk. Pavel's best quality (besides his sick hands and vision) might be his dedication to defense. I watch him play and see his backchecking and it's exactly what we need to see from our guys. I know we don't have a squad of Selke candidates but we were seeing some pretty good backchecking early on in the season.

Occasionally you'll see Kaleta putting his head down, skating balls out to backcheck an opponent before he even reaches our blue-line. We need more of this; more guys need to do this.

[OpIv37]

And beyond playing better team defense, it's about winning the small battles along the walls.

Kennedy and Pominville are the worst offenders in this regard. And I think Kennedy just sucks because it always seems like he's working hard, but he never seems to get results.

[DMBcrew36]

Kennedy and Pominville are the worst offenders in this regard. And I think Kennedy just sucks because it always seems like he's working hard, but he never seems to get results.

My biggest complaint about Kennedy is his faceoffs. He is absolutely rancid on draws.

[chernobylwraiths]

And people were *****ing about our backup goaltending as if it were a major problem.

[DMBcrew36]

And people were *****ing about our backup goaltending as if it were a major problem.

We certainly can't call our backup goaltending a strength (like when we had Biron), but it's serviceable.

[trapezeus]

I mentioned this after the pens game. the team looks like its in free fall. they know what the stakes are. This isn't a matter of them "playing down" like they've claimed a lot the last 2 or 3 years. This is an issue that they don't have the talent. You can't have your goaltender face between 35-45 shots routinely and then not score more than 3 goals a game.

Miller is a legend right now. They should should be going to bat for him simply because he's done so well for himself. The team has no heart. unless torres comes in and kicks some ass, this team will rival the 2008 bills for biggest buffalo collapse.

[OpIv37]

I mentioned this after the pens game. the team looks like its in free fall. they know what the stakes are. This isn't a matter of them "playing down" like they've claimed a lot the last 2 or 3 years. This is an issue that they don't have the talent. You can't have your goaltender face between 35-45 shots routinely and then not score more than 3 goals a game.

Miller is a legend right now. They should should be going to bat for him simply because he's done so well for himself. The team has no heart. unless torres comes in and kicks some ass, this team will rival the 2008 bills for biggest buffalo collapse.

The 2008 Bills were an illusion created by weak opponents.

The 2009-2010 Sabres are an illusion created by spectacular goaltending.

The results are likely to be just as disappointing. If this team makes the playoffs, they are headed for a first-round slaughter.

[Nighthawk]

To me, their success going forward is all dependent on whether the forwards will backcheck and play 5-man defense as they did early in the season. I look at the game in the first month of the season where the Sabres 'out Detroited' Detroit.

The team needs to re-dedicate themselves to the system Ruff tried to implement in October. That said, I'm not hitting the panic button just yet. They're still 1 pt from being the first seed in the Northeast.

And why would you assume this team will do that? The beginning of the season seems like it was more of a blip on the screen and not necessarily what this team can do on a long term basis. This team is doing exactly what they have done for the past few seasons...they need to get rid of the core players on this team...they are terribly soft and mentally weak.

[RockStar36]

And people were *****ing about our backup goaltending as if it were a major problem.

It is a major problem.

I never said it was the biggest problem, but it is a major problem. Even you acknowledged that much.

[DMBcrew36]

And why would you assume this team will do that? The beginning of the season seems like it was more of a blip on the screen and not necessarily what this team can do on a long term basis. This team is doing exactly what they have done for the past few seasons...they need to get rid of the core players on this team...they are terribly soft and mentally weak.

LOL a team contending for the top of their division doesn't just dump the entire core of its team. This team may not be a Cup contender, but your chicken little views of this team are crazy.

[trapezeus]

The team definitely needs to get rid of pominville. He's a big salary doing nothing. Roy and Vanek need to play like the stars they are.

connolloy is healthy all season, but he's seemed invisible in this losing stretch. he's not even a good puck handler right now and t hat's his best strength.

I am not so irritated with the defense. mair, hecht, grier need to be replaced next season. Grier is skating with one leg right now. i get that he's the grit, but he isn't the same guy he was in 2006.

This team for the majority got 2 weeks off. The forwards aren't skating at all. they're coasting looking for bigger plays instead of skating and making plays happen.

[OpIv37]

LOL a team contending for the top of their division doesn't just dump the entire core of its team. This team may not be a Cup contender, but your chicken little views of this team are crazy.

LOL at this team "contending" for the top of their division. Two months ago, we had a 10 point lead in the division. Since then, the Senators have been on a tear and we've been in free-fall, and now we're playing catch-up. If you look at the stats today, you can see we're only 3 or so points behind and conclude that we're "contending" for the division. But the reality of the situation is that this team has already surrendered the division lead and doesn't have the talent to get it back.

[RockStar36]

LOL at this team "contending" for the top of their division. Two months ago, we had a 10 point lead in the division. Since then, the Senators have been on a tear and we've been in free-fall, and now we're playing catch-up. If you look at the stats today, you can see we're only 3 or so points behind and conclude that we're "contending" for the division. But the reality of the situation is that this team has already surrendered the division lead and doesn't have the talent to get it back.

Assuming they get their **** together and Torres provides a little of what they are missing, they will get it back.

Ottawa took the lead thanks to a huge winning streak combined with the Sabres struggling quite a bit. The Sens have come back down to Earth and the Sabres have the schedule advantage.

[OpIv37]

I'm sure Ottawa will stumble a little at some point over the next month or so. But I don't know if the Sabres can get back up.

I'd really hate to be Rafi Torres right about now. He's basically this team's last desperate attempt to salvage the season and there is a ton of pressure put on him- it's unfair and it's a ridiculous expectation, but it's the reality of the situation.

[RockStar36]

I'm sure Ottawa will stumble a little at some point over the next month or so. But I don't know if the Sabres can get back up.

I'd really hate to be Rafi Torres right about now. He's basically this team's last desperate attempt to salvage the season and there is a ton of pressure put on him- it's unfair and it's a ridiculous expectation, but it's the reality of the situation.

They actually have been stumbling lately, but the Sabres have failed on consecutive nights to leap from them for the division lead.

Typical.

[chernobylwraiths]

It is a major problem.

I never said it was the biggest problem, but it is a major problem. Even you acknowledged that much.

I did not acknowledge that it is a major problem, just a problem. I think I've reiterated many times that this team has a lot more problems than backup goaltender.

[OpIv37]

I did not acknowledge that it is a major problem, just a problem. I think I've reiterated many times that this team has a lot more problems than backup goaltender.

Everything on this team is skewed.

First, how important is backup goaltending? Well, the only reason this team isn't desperately clinging to 10th in the conference is Ryan Miller. If he's not standing on his head, we're losing. We need a back-up that Ruff has confidence in to win. So, I'd argue that backup goaltending is much more important than you're making it out to be, solely because it makes our starting goaltending better, and that's the only thing going right for this team right now.

Second, yes, this team does have more serious issues, most notably a lack of scoring and a commitment from the FO to guys who do not get the job done. Those are major problems, but does anyone actually expect that to change, particularly right at the deadline? While backup goaltending may not be the most important issue with this team, it's one of the easier issues to address in FA.

So these two factors make backup goaltending into a larger problem than you're presenting.

The end result is that the last two games once again showed that we are still far behind the teams we will have to face early in the playoffs, and even that wasn't enough for Darcy and company to try to get something done.

I'm starting to think Eb was right- the org let Drury and Briere go with the intent of building around Pominville, Roy and Vanek. Unfortunately they were wrong, and this whole thing needs to be blown up again. Do it now, or do it after another 2-3 years of missing the playoffs or early playoff exit, but it's going to happen sooner or later.

[chernobylwraiths]

Everything on this team is skewed.

First, how important is backup goaltending? Well, the only reason this team isn't desperately clinging to 10th in the conference is Ryan Miller. If he's not standing on his head, we're losing. We need a back-up that Ruff has confidence in to win. So, I'd argue that backup goaltending is much more important than you're making it out to be, solely because it makes our starting goaltending better, and that's the only thing going right for this team right now.

Second, yes, this team does have more serious issues, most notably a lack of scoring and a commitment from the FO to guys who do not get the job done. Those are major problems, but does anyone actually expect that to change, particularly right at the deadline? While backup goaltending may not be the most important issue with this team, it's one of the easier issues to address in FA.

So these two factors make backup goaltending into a larger problem than you're presenting.

The end result is that the last two games once again showed that we are still far behind the teams we will have to face early in the playoffs, and even that wasn't enough for Darcy and company to try to get something done.

I'm starting to think Eb was right- the org let Drury and Briere go with the intent of building around Pominville, Roy and Vanek. Unfortunately they were wrong, and this whole thing needs to be blown up again. Do it now, or do it after another 2-3 years of missing the playoffs or early playoff exit, but it's going to happen sooner or later.

Your first sentence is completely contradictory. "If Ryan Miller isn't standing on his head, we're losing." I actually agree with you here. But, if the best goalie in the world has to play pretty much lights out for the Sabres to even win a game, then how is ANY backup going to compare? Backups are backups for a reason. They are supposed to play against inferior teams to give the starter a break. Now, Ruff has been awful at giving any backups time in goal. A backup need more than one game every three weeks to get some kind of rhythm. I don't even know how a backup makes our starting goaltender better either. Maybe it makes the TEAM better. I also don't buy the "pressure" angle either that it puts more pressure on Miller to win when he is in. He's SUPPOSED to win when he is in, how much more pressure can there be.

It's just a stupid argument, that we needed some new backup goalie for the stretch drive. Sure, I want Miller to have more rest down the stretch, but I don't want it at the expense of putting some guy in there who MIGHT play good, Lalime or anybody else. Remember you would be trading for some other teams bad goalie of their two. How would that be good? The TEAM needs to play better in front of him. For the most part, the goals getting by Lalime are the same type that are getting by Miller, deflections, screen shots and piss poor defense.

[OpIv37]

Your first sentence is completely contradictory. "If Ryan Miller isn't standing on his head, we're losing." I actually agree with you here. But, if the best goalie in the world has to play pretty much lights out for the Sabres to even win a game, then how is ANY backup going to compare? Backups are backups for a reason. They are supposed to play against inferior teams to give the starter a break. Now, Ruff has been awful at giving any backups time in goal. A backup need more than one game every three weeks to get some kind of rhythm. I don't even know how a backup makes our starting goaltender better either. Maybe it makes the TEAM better. I also don't buy the "pressure" angle either that it puts more pressure on Miller to win when he is in. He's SUPPOSED to win when he is in, how much more pressure can there be.

It's just a stupid argument, that we needed some new backup goalie for the stretch drive. Sure, I want Miller to have more rest down the stretch, but I don't want it at the expense of putting some guy in there who MIGHT play good, Lalime or anybody else. Remember you would be trading for some other teams bad goalie of their two. How would that be good? The TEAM needs to play better in front of him. For the most part, the goals getting by Lalime are the same type that are getting by Miller, deflections, screen shots and piss poor defense.

It's not contradictory and here's why: If Lindy doesn't have faith in the backup, he doesn't play him. That wears Miller down and then when he does play, he's not 100%. Chances are we're going to lose with the backup in there, but with Lalime there's a good chance we lose because of goalie play. I think Lindy would feel comfortable putting a back up in there if he could say "We lost because he's not as good as Miller, but it's not his fault that the guys in front of him hung him out to dry."


Yes, the team in front of him needs to get better. But you sound like Dick Jauron: "We just need to be better." That's not an answer- it's rhetorical. It's much easier to improve backup goaltending than it is to improve the other 20 guys. And not everyone available at the trade deadline is bad. Different teams have different reasons for buying or selling at the deadine.

[trapezeus]

have we discussed that it's odd that Grier only pushes off with one leg? It's pretty obvious that this was his last possible useful year and it's not going so well. Kudos for being out there, but i don't see him being a useful piece next year.

[RockStar36]

I'm sure Ottawa will stumble a little at some point over the next month or so. But I don't know if the Sabres can get back up.

I'd really hate to be Rafi Torres right about now. He's basically this team's last desperate attempt to salvage the season and there is a ton of pressure put on him- it's unfair and it's a ridiculous expectation, but it's the reality of the situation.

Just for the record, Ottawa lost again to Carolina last night. So the Sabres again have 3 games in hand only trailing one point.

Winning tonight would be a nice way of taking advantage of that.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

There is a month left and the teams that would have to catch them to reach the 8th spot are the NY Rangers and Atlanta. They have a 10 point lead on them with what 20 games left. I think they will make the playoffs.