We're Bills Fans, Now act like it

[Ingtar33]

(warning, this is long, sorry sometimes I want to get on a soapbox)

You know I’ve been reading the threads since here since the boards opened, and I don't think I’ve seen more hopelessness in the fan base then I'm seeing now, or more viciousness toward eachother.

Ever since DL was hired to coach we've been on a downward spiral, from our status as a perpetually competitive team a few players away from the playoffs, to mediocre also runs, with no hope, in the class of the Detroit lions or Cincinnati Bengals (and even the Bengals, as horribly run as they are have been to the playoffs twice this last decade). I would like to add Arizona Cardinals to that list of losers, but since getting Whisenhunt they've turned it around, despite their cheapskate owner and mediocre drafting.

What actually puzzles me is the occasional bouts of irrational expectations that have popped up in the last few years. When I read here after the signing of Nix to be GM, that this is a good move, and most people seem excited, I scratch my head and ask "what could make you come to that conclusion?" But it never makes me angry... it's the result of those irrational expectations that become a problem.

Don't get me wrong, I WANT Nix to succeed, but there is one thing to consider first. A job search with only one real interview isn't particularly heartening. When Ralph signed him without even bothering to interview someone outside the organization, it seemed to me pretty clear this was not going to work out.

I remember after the Nix signing people saying with some of the strangest signs of delusional and misguided hope that we only had to wait and see who he'd get as a coach, to prove this was a brilliant hire. When the underwhelming Gailey was hired many of those same people, with even more desperation seemed to cling to the belief that Gailey's staff would be more impressive, and make up for him. We all saw how that worked out.

Then those people desperate to cling to their delusions held out hope we'd sign a "name" in free-agency... or we'd have a great draft, to make this all work out.

Yet every time the bills do nothing, we get these righteousness posts demanding action or proclaiming "this is enough!!! I’ve had it!!!" often form the same people who were defending or praising certain past actions, or even from people who hate everything the team does. I don't have a huge problem with irrational exuberance. But it seems a war has broken out on this board yet again between those who seem to think things will be alright, and those who are pissed.

I think as Bills fans we're better then spoiled 4 year old, like it seems these boards have devolved into. I know we're probably going to suck terribly this year. Sure I have some hope somewhere that Gailey has heretofore unknown and unseen coaching talents which will take the mess we have and mold them into a team I can be proud of. But I won't get my expectations up for it.

I think it's time we take our rose stained and... Yes... the dirt stained goggles off, and be a little more rational about this. I love the Bills, it will kill me to see them anywhere else. I love the city of Buffalo even though I’ve not lived there in nearly 20 years. I'd love a chance to move back some day.

Because we're fans of the buffalo bills we're tougher then pats fans, or colts fans. We're not selfish. And we're certainly not spoiled. Many of you have season tickets, I have held season tickets for years, even though I’ve only been to like 3 or 4 games in all that time.

We know the team sucks. We all probably know the team will likely blow this year. But that's no reason to savage each other, savage the franchise, or savage the players. That's no reason to start 10 posts a day proclaiming how mad you are, or how mad you are at the people who are mad. Personally I plan to watch every game this year... schedule allowing. I plan to wear my bills paraphernalia... and I plan to mock out Jets fans or Fins or Pats fans when one of their teams sucks as bad as us this year.

How about we behave with a bit more dignity in conversations with each other, maybe a little more respect for each other, and lower our expectations a bit. That way if something great happens we'll be happier for it. And when something doesn't happen... or at least something underwhelming, we'll not be so emotionally divested.

This will make you all happier... and perhaps make the conversations here a little more congenial.

The Bills suck, but don't let it be said their fans suck.

[YardRat]

Sounds like you've already written off this version of the team, Ing, and only three days into free agency, based on some of your comments regarding Nix and Gailey.

Hell, if we can win six games in '09 with the coaching staff, front office and roster that we had last season there's no reason to dismiss the possibility that in '10 or '11 we can't do even better.

I'm more optimistic about this team than I have been in a long time.

[Ingtar33]

Sounds like you've already written off this version of the team, Ing, and only three days into free agency, based on some of your comments regarding Nix and Gailey.

Hell, if we can win six games in '09 with the coaching staff, front office and roster that we had last season there's no reason to dismiss the possibility that in '10 or '11 we can't do even better.

I'm more optimistic about this team than I have been in a long time.


I wrote off this year long before free agency; but this post isn't about that. It's about civility.

[shelby]

How about we behave with a bit more dignity in conversations with each other, maybe a little more respect for each other, and lower our expectations a bit. That way if something great happens we'll be happier for it. And when something doesn't happen... or at least something underwhelming, we'll not be so emotionally divested.

Very well said, thank you sir!

[Italian Stallion]

Screw that man...look your entitled to your opinion of course but I REFUSE to accept this ridiculous product they continue to put on the field. I shouldn't have to. No fan should have to "lower there expectations" and act like a good soldier as your suggesting. This isn't communisim, it's a damn game. I doubt anyone has ever started playing a board game and said "well gee I don't really want to win, but instead I'll just make all the others who do better than me respect that I'm playing". No. This defeatest attitude is no longer acceptable. It's weak.

Sorry but from my end the complaining will not stop until this team I love so much actually loves me back...by proving that they are actualy serious about winning

[Night Train]

Well said but you have to remember one key fact.

This is the internet, a cyber community without filters. The majority being a good lot but some usual suspects who basically use this place to B!tch & Moan 24/7...people you would never have anything to do with in real life. I'd probably taser several of these people if they tried walking in my house.

10 years of no playoffs will bring out the worst in people.

Back to the Bills. Having gone to my first game some 45 years ago and 300 + games since, there is no mystery to the primary issue of failure...Ralph. He meddles and will continue to do so until he dies.

All these pie in the sky theories of " What the Bills should be doing " are good thoughts but will never apply until Ralph is gone. So many posters outlook operate under the current conditions of Buddy Nix, Chan Gailey... A hiring of a new Asst. GM, which could signify a long overdue change in thinking.

Some off-season faith breaks no laws and we all realize that it all comes down to wins and losses in the fall. The snappy negative comebacks by some window lickers on the short bus will continue to provide some easy overhead smashes for me and little else.

I'm giving the new adm. a chance to win in spite of Ralph. Dick Gallagher did it. So did Chuck Knox. Polian did it.

I'll give these guys the same shot. This off-season just started and I'll wait until camp starts to see what we have.

[Ingtar33]

Screw that man...look your entitled to your opinion of course but I REFUSE to accept this ridiculous product they continue to put on the field. I shouldn't have to. No fan should have to "lower there expectations" and act like a good soldier as your suggesting.

Sorry but from my end the complaining will not stop until this team I love so much actually loves me back...by proving that they are actualy serious about winning


and you're entitled to that? why?

this is a business, it's a team you chose to become a fan of. you chose to give them money of your own free will.

they've given you years of entertainment and presumably good memories.

what makes you entitled to a better product. if you don't like the one they have now stop buying. but i can't understand why people like yourself get so pissed... i mean i can't imagine why someone would willingly be so passionate about something that is making you miserable.

If the team isn't serious about winning that's their choice. You don't have to support them with your money. there is no "have to try to win" anywhere in this. if you believe they don't want to win, or aren't trying to win simply stop supporting them, find another passion and save yourself the stress.

[YardRat]

Ralph meddles no more and no less than any other owner in the league. His biggest fault is he trusts people he hires to do a job, but hires people that shouldn't be trusted.

Good owner, poor evaluator of 'talent'.

[Buddo]

Screw that man...look your entitled to your opinion of course but I REFUSE to accept this ridiculous product they continue to put on the field. I shouldn't have to. No fan should have to "lower there expectations" and act like a good soldier as your suggesting.

Sorry but from my end the complaining will not stop until this team I love so much actually loves me back...by proving that they are actualy serious about winning

I can understand this pov.
The problem lies with the continuing complaints.
You've just stated, for everyone to see, that you aren't happy with the Bills. Fair enough, we understand.
Now, how many more times do you need to post something to the same effect?
Note - this isn't personally directed at you, but a general observation.
How often do we see threads that supposedly are about separate things, yet in effect are really the same 'the Bills haven't done this or that, and they suck because of it' message?
Everyone is entitled to their individual opinions, without which this board wouldn't be much fun anyway, and everyone is surely entitled to vent their frustrations from time to time. Does it have to be on a daily basis though?

[Lone Stranger]

This is an excellent exhange. However, as a season ticket-holder for over 40 years I've just about had it. The only reason I keep my tickets is because they are so good. One more year for me. If I see real signs that the team is improving then I'll hang in there. I have real reservations about it though. It begins and ends with RW. Enough...we've heard that story numerous times.

What really rankles me is the price increase in view of the very poor economic conditions. I bet season ticket sales will be way down.

[better days]

(warning, this is long, sorry sometimes I want to get on a soapbox)

You know I’ve been reading the threads since here since the boards opened, and I don't think I’ve seen more hopelessness in the fan base then I'm seeing now, or more viciousness toward eachother.

Ever since DL was hired to coach we've been on a downward spiral, from our status as a perpetually competitive team a few players away from the playoffs, to mediocre also runs, with no hope, in the class of the Detroit lions or Cincinnati Bengals (and even the Bengals, as horribly run as they are have been to the playoffs twice this last decade). I would like to add Arizona Cardinals to that list of losers, but since getting Whisenhunt they've turned it around, despite their cheapskate owner and mediocre drafting.

What actually puzzles me is the occasional bouts of irrational expectations that have popped up in the last few years. When I read here after the signing of Nix to be GM, that this is a good move, and most people seem excited, I scratch my head and ask "what could make you come to that conclusion?" But it never makes me angry... it's the result of those irrational expectations that become a problem.

Don't get me wrong, I WANT Nix to succeed, but there is one thing to consider first. A job search with only one real interview isn't particularly heartening. When Ralph signed him without even bothering to interview someone outside the organization, it seemed to me pretty clear this was not going to work out.

I remember after the Nix signing people saying with some of the strangest signs of delusional and misguided hope that we only had to wait and see who he'd get as a coach, to prove this was a brilliant hire. When the underwhelming Gailey was hired many of those same people, with even more desperation seemed to cling to the belief that Gailey's staff would be more impressive, and make up for him. We all saw how that worked out.

Then those people desperate to cling to their delusions held out hope we'd sign a "name" in free-agency... or we'd have a great draft, to make this all work out.

Yet every time the bills do nothing, we get these righteousness posts demanding action or proclaiming "this is enough!!! I’ve had it!!!" often form the same people who were defending or praising certain past actions, or even from people who hate everything the team does. I don't have a huge problem with irrational exuberance. But it seems a war has broken out on this board yet again between those who seem to think things will be alright, and those who are pissed.

I think as Bills fans we're better then spoiled 4 year old, like it seems these boards have devolved into. I know we're probably going to suck terribly this year. Sure I have some hope somewhere that Gailey has heretofore unknown and unseen coaching talents which will take the mess we have and mold them into a team I can be proud of. But I won't get my expectations up for it.

I think it's time we take our rose stained and... Yes... the dirt stained goggles off, and be a little more rational about this. I love the Bills, it will kill me to see them anywhere else. I love the city of Buffalo even though I’ve not lived there in nearly 20 years. I'd love a chance to move back some day.

Because we're fans of the buffalo bills we're tougher then pats fans, or colts fans. We're not selfish. And we're certainly not spoiled. Many of you have season tickets, I have held season tickets for years, even though I’ve only been to like 3 or 4 games in all that time.

We know the team sucks. We all probably know the team will likely blow this year. But that's no reason to savage each other, savage the franchise, or savage the players. That's no reason to start 10 posts a day proclaiming how mad you are, or how mad you are at the people who are mad. Personally I plan to watch every game this year... schedule allowing. I plan to wear my bills paraphernalia... and I plan to mock out Jets fans or Fins or Pats fans when one of their teams sucks as bad as us this year.

How about we behave with a bit more dignity in conversations with each other, maybe a little more respect for each other, and lower our expectations a bit. That way if something great happens we'll be happier for it. And when something doesn't happen... or at least something underwhelming, we'll not be so emotionally divested.

This will make you all happier... and perhaps make the conversations here a little more congenial.

The Bills suck, but don't let it be said their fans suck.

I will tell you why I think the Nix hiring is a good move. The Bills went outside the organization last year to hire him. The last draft since his hire looks to be the best the Bills have had in a long time.

At his 1st PC Nix said what he was looking for in a HC & Chan fits it to a Tee. Nix also said at the time that the Bills would not sign overpriced FA players but use that money to resign their own. People disappointed in the Bills lack of activity in FA must not have listened to him.

While the Bills may not win many games this year, I expect them to at least be fun to watch even in losses. In the recent past even the wins have not been all that fun to watch.

While this board is one of the most civil I have read, I agree lets keep it that way. GO Bills!!!!

[Michael82]

Sounds like you've already written off this version of the team, Ing, and only three days into free agency, based on some of your comments regarding Nix and Gailey.

Hell, if we can win six games in '09 with the coaching staff, front office and roster that we had last season there's no reason to dismiss the possibility that in '10 or '11 we can't do even better.

I'm more optimistic about this team than I have been in a long time.

So am I. Sure we aren't going after big names or anything, but I honestly feel that we are finally going about it the right way. I feel optimistic about our future, maybe not this season...but like you said...we won 6 games with a horrid coaching staff and a lot of bum players. Anything is possible!

[ChanGailey]

It cracks me up that people ***** about threads that *****. People have a right to their opinion.

It cracks me up even more that people start threads to ***** about people starting threads *****ing. How does that get you closer to this perfect world of not starting threads that involve *****ing?

[DraftBoy]

Well said but as you've already seen your point will be lost long before this thread is over.

[hydro]

It cracks me up that people ***** about threads that *****. People have a right to their opinion.

It cracks me up even more that people start threads to ***** about people starting threads *****ing. How does that get you closer to this perfect world of not starting threads that involve *****ing?

I don't think you understand what *****ing is. Because I didn't see any *****ing in Ing's post. Stop with the melodramatics.

[X-Era]

(warning, this is long, sorry sometimes I want to get on a soapbox)

You know I’ve been reading the threads since here since the boards opened, and I don't think I’ve seen more hopelessness in the fan base then I'm seeing now, or more viciousness toward eachother.

Ever since DL was hired to coach we've been on a downward spiral, from our status as a perpetually competitive team a few players away from the playoffs, to mediocre also runs, with no hope, in the class of the Detroit lions or Cincinnati Bengals (and even the Bengals, as horribly run as they are have been to the playoffs twice this last decade). I would like to add Arizona Cardinals to that list of losers, but since getting Whisenhunt they've turned it around, despite their cheapskate owner and mediocre drafting.

What actually puzzles me is the occasional bouts of irrational expectations that have popped up in the last few years. When I read here after the signing of Nix to be GM, that this is a good move, and most people seem excited, I scratch my head and ask "what could make you come to that conclusion?" But it never makes me angry... it's the result of those irrational expectations that become a problem.

Don't get me wrong, I WANT Nix to succeed, but there is one thing to consider first. A job search with only one real interview isn't particularly heartening. When Ralph signed him without even bothering to interview someone outside the organization, it seemed to me pretty clear this was not going to work out.

I remember after the Nix signing people saying with some of the strangest signs of delusional and misguided hope that we only had to wait and see who he'd get as a coach, to prove this was a brilliant hire. When the underwhelming Gailey was hired many of those same people, with even more desperation seemed to cling to the belief that Gailey's staff would be more impressive, and make up for him. We all saw how that worked out.

Then those people desperate to cling to their delusions held out hope we'd sign a "name" in free-agency... or we'd have a great draft, to make this all work out.

Yet every time the bills do nothing, we get these righteousness posts demanding action or proclaiming "this is enough!!! I’ve had it!!!" often form the same people who were defending or praising certain past actions, or even from people who hate everything the team does. I don't have a huge problem with irrational exuberance. But it seems a war has broken out on this board yet again between those who seem to think things will be alright, and those who are pissed.

I think as Bills fans we're better then spoiled 4 year old, like it seems these boards have devolved into. I know we're probably going to suck terribly this year. Sure I have some hope somewhere that Gailey has heretofore unknown and unseen coaching talents which will take the mess we have and mold them into a team I can be proud of. But I won't get my expectations up for it.

I think it's time we take our rose stained and... Yes... the dirt stained goggles off, and be a little more rational about this. I love the Bills, it will kill me to see them anywhere else. I love the city of Buffalo even though I’ve not lived there in nearly 20 years. I'd love a chance to move back some day.

Because we're fans of the buffalo bills we're tougher then pats fans, or colts fans. We're not selfish. And we're certainly not spoiled. Many of you have season tickets, I have held season tickets for years, even though I’ve only been to like 3 or 4 games in all that time.

We know the team sucks. We all probably know the team will likely blow this year. But that's no reason to savage each other, savage the franchise, or savage the players. That's no reason to start 10 posts a day proclaiming how mad you are, or how mad you are at the people who are mad. Personally I plan to watch every game this year... schedule allowing. I plan to wear my bills paraphernalia... and I plan to mock out Jets fans or Fins or Pats fans when one of their teams sucks as bad as us this year.

How about we behave with a bit more dignity in conversations with each other, maybe a little more respect for each other, and lower our expectations a bit. That way if something great happens we'll be happier for it. And when something doesn't happen... or at least something underwhelming, we'll not be so emotionally divested.

This will make you all happier... and perhaps make the conversations here a little more congenial.

The Bills suck, but don't let it be said their fans suck.

Great job Ing!

I just was about to post how frustrated I am.

I just feel like its same ole same ole.

This team has no franchise QB- The dont appear to have any intention to trade for a proven one. And without a huge move up, they wont likely draft one this year. So that position remains the same.

The offensive line needs 2 OT's- We don't appear to be trading for a proven one, and unless we spend both our our early picks, we aren't likely to complete the OL this year. Next year at least, better, but overall more of the same.

The defense needs a NT, LB, and at least one DE. We appear to not be adding any proven talent here either through FA. The draft cant solve all of our problems this year. So, we may find one or two players who may play decent right off the bat. But overall, its more of the same at least for next year.

Overall, we are a very mediocre team that turned over its front office, and instead of significantly upgrading this team through FA and the draft, we appear to be relying solely on the draft, with a high failure rate, and an inability to fill all of our needs with the number of current picks we have.

I just cant get why we are so clueless. Its frustrating to see new faces in the FO who basically are ushering in more of the same.

[bob86]

A great post. I am happy to see that others out there get it.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Bad record, bad weather, bad coaching, bad ownership, bad front office, bad talent; it’s all bad in Buffalo. Except it’s the best place to be a fan in the NFL. The fans are great despite of the team, not because of it. The Bills fans are unique. Whatever you can say about them, they certainly are not fair weather fans.
<o:p></o:p>
That is not to say the generation of losing has not had its effect on this great group of people. Over this long and painful decade, a troubling amount of meanness has shown up repeatedly both at the game and at places like this.
<o:p></o:p>
For example, I was not a big believer in DJ has head coach. I just did not think that role best suited him. I always thought DJ was a good person and always worked his heart out to make the team better. Things did not work for him here, that’s life. When he was fired, I wished him well and hoped he found happiness someplace else. Because that is what you do in Buffalo when someone loses their job. You never rejoice in someone else's heartache. Unfortunately, I saw many people engage in mean-spirited personal attack against DJ when he was down. That was not how I was raised nor how people in Buffalo normally react to someone else’s hardship.
<o:p></o:p>
We need to watch ourselves, and make sure losing football games does not cause us to lose the unique and special qualities that for so long have made the Bills fans the best.<o:p></o:p>

[better days]

A great post. I am happy to see that others out there get it.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Bad record, bad weather, bad coaching, bad ownership, bad front office, bad talent; it’s all bad in Buffalo. Except it’s the best place to be a fan in the NFL. The fans are great despite of the team, not because of it. The Bills fans are unique. Whatever you can say about them, they certainly are not fair weather fans.
<o:p></o:p>
That is not to say the generation of losing has not had its effect on this great group of people. Over this long and painful decade, a troubling amount of meanness has shown up repeatedly both at the game and at places like this.
<o:p></o:p>
For example, I was not a big believer in DJ has head coach. I just did not think that role best suited him. I always thought DJ was a good person and always worked his heart out to make the team better. Things did not work for him here, that’s life. When he was fired, I wished him well and hoped he found happiness someplace else. Because that is what you do in Buffalo when someone loses their job. You never rejoice in someone else's heartache. Unfortunately, I saw many people engage in mean-spirited personal attack against DJ when he was down. That was not how I was raised nor how people in Buffalo normally react to someone else’s hardship.
<o:p></o:p>
We need to watch ourselves, and make sure losing football games does not cause us to lose the unique and special qualities that for so long have made the Bills fans the best.<o:p></o:p>

I may be wrong, but I believe the vast majority of mean-spirited people on the boards may be Bills fans, but I don't think they are from the Buffalo area. I was stranded at a total strangers house for 4 days during the blizzard of 77. They not only took me in but kept me well fed & did their best to make me comfortable in that time. They are what the vast majority of people from Buffalo are like.

[Novacane]

I wrote off this year long before free agency; but this post isn't about that. It's about civility.


Same here. I wrote off the next 3 years the day they hired Gailey.

[Novacane]

Ralph meddles no more and no less than any other owner in the league. His biggest fault is he trusts people he hires to do a job, but hires people that shouldn't be trusted.

Good owner, poor evaluator of 'talent'.



I don't know how to repsond to this. I can't believe you actually think he is a good owner.

[SABURZFAN]

oh yeah... i'm supposed to be happy that the Bills brass are going to sit on their asses and throw in the towel for this upcoming season. this team is a ****ing joke.

[k-oneputt]

Just think Ralph will be able to get Schobel off the books one way or another this year and they then can end up cutting Kelsay {compnay line; doesn't fit the system} and he can stick another 12 mil in his pocket.
Ralph has always been the problem.

[feldspar]

I understand the spirit of Ingtar's thread and I agree with it.

There is no reason to continually work yourself up over something that you have no control over. Being a football fan should only be a form of entertainment, and a lot of people invest too much of themselves in the outcome of a game that is played by people that they don't know...people that have plenty of money because of us. It doesn't say anything about you as a person whether the team you happen to root for happens to win or lose, so I agree that a lot of people need to gain perspective and lighten up a bit.

The "I'm fed up and not going to take it anymore" people need to put their money where their mouth is or shut up. I'm not interested. I'll never join that crowd no matter how bad the team gets. I'm a Buffalo Bills fan, thank you very much...for better or worse, in sickness or in health, until death does us part. But that's just part of who I am; I aslo enjoy beer, women, and the occasional round of golf, bowling, and a good movie.

If anyone wants to give up and do something else on football Sundays, go ahead. No skin off my teeth at all. Most of the time it's an empty "threat" anyway. Don't get me wrong, I get frustrated because losing sucks too, but it's not the end of the world.

[mybills]

It's about civility.
It's not just in this forum.

[justasportsfan]

How about we behave with a bit more dignity in conversations with each other, maybe a little more respect for each other, and lower our expectations a bit. That way if something great happens we'll be happier for it. And when something doesn't happen... or at least something underwhelming, we'll not be so emotionally divested.

This will make you all happier... and perhaps make the conversations here a little more congenial.

The Bills suck, but don't let it be said their fans suck.


Unfortunately bills fans beating up on each other at bills games is a normal thing.